Author Topic: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread  (Read 3088 times)

DoctorHarte

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 589
  • Stoned on BattleMaster
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #30: May 18, 2017, 06:56:45 PM »
The last time Avernus tried to settle Golden Farrow it didn't end too well, but then again they were being led by a Mayhem.

Yes, I heard about this. Apparently, one of Morek's dukes was planning on selling Golden Farrow to D'Hara so Avernus was forced to return to Morek Empire instead.
No worries, though. There's always more monsters to kill.

Yes, but we want our own monsters haha  ;D As much fun as it is to help our Westgard, Avernus would prefer to have monsters and rogue regions right out our front door to slay and loot. One day...... maybe.
New Harte Family: Eros (Vix Tiramora, EC), Nyx (Fronen, BT), Chance (Avernus, DW), Scopuli (Gothica, Colonies)

Old Harte Family: Hyperion (Aurvandil, DW), William (IVF, BT), Katrina (Fronen, BT), Callandor II (Ohnar West, FE)

Chenier

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 7633
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #31: May 19, 2017, 02:32:10 PM »
Hopefully Avernus will make it's eventual move to somewhere away from Westgard in the future. Golden Farrow, perhaps. Darfix.. maybe. We are cramped up here now that Westgard has cut off our expansion options. War is the only war out which isn't a bad idea... but would have to be orchestrated in game somehow. And probably not with Westgard. *Looks over at Arnor with a slight drool*

Ya'll keep asking for our army to help fight the rogues but then you kill half of them before we even arrive. (how rude!) We just want to loot! Soooo that's what we're gonna do  ;D

No bad feelings. But you ruffled our feather the wrong way  :P

There's 20k of rogues converging on Gelene Outskirts about to kick our asses, there's no shortage of rogues.

But your military is organized in an obscure manner to foreigners and your officials don't tend to reply and coordinate much. Am I supposed to coordinate with your general? Your marshal? Your ruler? You all keep throwing the ball at each other and none actively communicate with me (Westgard's general). I asked Avernus' help, but I don't think I ever got confirmation that you were ever actually coming, your arrival was actually a surprise to everyone.

I've given several updates to your general, despite only getting a single reply from Avernus within the last few weeks. Don't blame me for not giving daily updates when I never get any replies and my character was wounded for most of the time since you arrived.

It's honestly a surprising trend, though. "Hey, we've arrived with an army to help you!" "Wait, what? Takes about a week to get here, couldn't you tell us... before you actually arrive? We are in the opposite side of the realm right now and I've got no one near you to provide you with any scout reports to help guide the way..." It's not just Avernus.

To be fair, it's something I've witnessed in pretty much all of my game time, and which I never understood. Inter-realm coordination is always awful because most of the realms involved tend to make no effort whatsoever to coordinate with the rest.

Chenier

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 7633
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #32: May 19, 2017, 02:39:09 PM »
In an alternate reality where Westgard was still in Eidulb it'd have been really cool for Avernus to be in Golden Farrow. Eidulb, Golden Farrow, Paisly, and Candiels could have been the hubs of PvE, each with a direct sea route to each other for safe reinforcements when [email protected]#$ goes south. But that's not likely to happen. :P

DoctorHarte

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 589
  • Stoned on BattleMaster
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #33: May 19, 2017, 03:31:28 PM »
There's 20k of rogues converging on Gelene Outskirts about to kick our asses, there's no shortage of rogues.

But your military is organized in an obscure manner to foreigners and your officials don't tend to reply and coordinate much. Am I supposed to coordinate with your general? Your marshal? Your ruler? You all keep throwing the ball at each other and none actively communicate with me (Westgard's general). I asked Avernus' help, but I don't think I ever got confirmation that you were ever actually coming, your arrival was actually a surprise to everyone.

I've given several updates to your general, despite only getting a single reply from Avernus within the last few weeks. Don't blame me for not giving daily updates when I never get any replies and my character was wounded for most of the time since you arrived.

It's honestly a surprising trend, though. "Hey, we've arrived with an army to help you!" "Wait, what? Takes about a week to get here, couldn't you tell us... before you actually arrive? We are in the opposite side of the realm right now and I've got no one near you to provide you with any scout reports to help guide the way..." It's not just Avernus.

To be fair, it's something I've witnessed in pretty much all of my game time, and which I never understood. Inter-realm coordination is always awful because most of the realms involved tend to make no effort whatsoever to coordinate with the rest.

Please, chill out a bit. I'm not the General and I don't know what's going on between you or our leadership. I just follow orders and come on here to discuss this or that. Nor was I insulting your realm. I'm not even going to reply to the rest of this because it seems a bit too heated.

In an alternate reality where Westgard was still in Eidulb it'd have been really cool for Avernus to be in Golden Farrow. Eidulb, Golden Farrow, Paisly, and Candiels could have been the hubs of PvE, each with a direct sea route to each other for safe reinforcements when [email protected]#$ goes south. But that's not likely to happen. :P

Moving Avernus to a new location is still in the works. We still have a treaty from Arnor stating that Nifelheim and Nifel are on loan from them until we either 1) find a new location for our realm or 2) help Arnor acquire a replacement city and townsland. However, with the shape that Arnor is in right now it's kind of unlikely. If we do actually make a move I think it would be down to Golden Farrow. More room for activities!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 03:38:33 PM by DoctorHarte »
New Harte Family: Eros (Vix Tiramora, EC), Nyx (Fronen, BT), Chance (Avernus, DW), Scopuli (Gothica, Colonies)

Old Harte Family: Hyperion (Aurvandil, DW), William (IVF, BT), Katrina (Fronen, BT), Callandor II (Ohnar West, FE)

Chenier

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 7633
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #34: May 19, 2017, 06:37:23 PM »
I'm not mad, just stating my observations. I didn't feel offended, and did not intend to offend. I was simply informing you of why you were experiencing what you did.

Plus, Avernus' timely arrival in Ygg d'Razhuul broke the takeover, the Sun Swords would quite possibly have been defeated in that battle otherwise. So it's not really accurate to say you came for nothing.

There's no shortage of rogues to fight. If your leaders are telling you otherwise, then maybe they have an agenda. Most likely they just aren't really good at coordinating, "failing to reply to letters" being a trait Avernus is starting to be renown for. I'm not the first one to say this.

As for moving Avernus, I think someone is selling you dreams. Arnor doesn't have the nobles to claim Avernus' lands. And Avernus would never survive out in Darfix, Golden Farrow, Paisly, or just about anywhere else in the West. This is not a critique of your competence; I don't think anyone could survive such an attempt. Most if not all of these regions are depopulated. They have no infrastructure. They are hard to reinforce. They are surrounded by very large hordes routinely. They would require substantial sponsoring in terms of food, gold, and military aid to even just kick off, and would inevitably fail. Westgard still exists (despite nearly failing a number of times) because it didn't start out with nothing in a post-expansion Dwilight. It was given a hand starting out, its regions were made productive to begin with, and many eastern realms did not have the expanse they do now (affecting rogue spawns). If Westgard had just been a player-led initiative from some eastern realm, I wouldn't have expected it to survive long either. And Darfix or Golden Farrow are both much worse than Gelene because of how far off you'd be from other human realms. Golden Farrow links to Astrum, but they are involved in a war and couldn't help, even if they could be swayed to. It also links to D'Hara, but, no offense, it can't even hold its own without outside help. Any eastern realm would need to sail a long time and would arrive with lots of wear, low morale, and incredible expenses.

Again, this isn't a critique, but an analysis to a project that you harbor. Just because it's negative doesn't mean that it is slander or heated. I don't limit myself to saying only nice and positive things.

Chenier

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 7633
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #35: May 19, 2017, 06:42:08 PM »
The Sun Sword's marshal reports the same experience as mine, our ruler's, and a number of foreigners: Avernus' officials just don't reply to missives.

DoctorHarte

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 589
  • Stoned on BattleMaster
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #36: May 19, 2017, 06:56:51 PM »
No worries!  ;D I like someone who is brutally honest  8)

Anyways, we have discussed the fact that we would need to store at least 20-30,000 gold in order to make the move. Infrastructures, RCs, wait for population to rise, food supply, militia drops, etc. This wouldn't be ready to happen for months and months. Furthermore, we wouldn't go gung-ho and forget about Nifelheim and our current regions. Of course we would keep a back-up of our current realm in case everything failed. Yes, there is a good chance it could all crumble but that's part of the fun! Risking it for the biscuit, as they say.

No matter, we may never get there and perhaps the leadership does have something else planned. Guess I will have to stir the pot in a different direction   :P

The Sun Sword's marshal reports the same experience as mine, our ruler's, and a number of foreigners: Avernus' officials just don't reply to missives.

Hmm and our General didn't even have the correct line settings in the most recent battle. The public channels have been rather quiet except for talking about looting.
New Harte Family: Eros (Vix Tiramora, EC), Nyx (Fronen, BT), Chance (Avernus, DW), Scopuli (Gothica, Colonies)

Old Harte Family: Hyperion (Aurvandil, DW), William (IVF, BT), Katrina (Fronen, BT), Callandor II (Ohnar West, FE)

Vita

  • Administrator
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1932
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #37: May 19, 2017, 06:57:50 PM »
People often play BM too cautiously. Take risks. Don't wait for the perfect opportunity to do something, do it now!

Anaris

  • BM Dev Team
  • Honourable King
  • *
  • Posts: 7569
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #38: May 19, 2017, 06:59:03 PM »
But communicate, dammit.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Vita

  • Administrator
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1932
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #39: May 19, 2017, 06:59:47 PM »
And Chenier isn't wrong that the West is *hard* living.

Chenier

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 7633
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #40: May 19, 2017, 09:38:03 PM »
20k gold doesn't seem nearly enough. 1000 CS units will cost around 100 gold per week. You probably want about 20k CS to deal with all these large hordes in the region. So you'd have about 10 weeks' worth of salaries. But that doesn't consider unit replacement costs from battle losses. Nor repairs. Nor does it consider the infrastructure needed. I expect a city to take more than 10 weeks to recover, too.

Not sure what you mean about not abandoning your current regions, but the sheer distance would make it impossible to hold both for any meaningful amount of time. Whatever part that doesn't have the capital will revolt rapidly. And while it does give secure funding, it also means splitting your effectives. If you need nobles staying back at home, you'd be left with very few to work with abroad.

In my eyes, to work, it'd need to be an all-in move with all of your nobles AND solid sponsoring from foreign realms.

Ketchum

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1578
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #41: May 29, 2017, 02:09:31 AM »
People often play BM too cautiously. Take risks. Don't wait for the perfect opportunity to do something, do it now!
If Morek has to die, figure we should give Westgard a joining recruitment ;)
Werewolf Games: Villager (6) Wolf (4) Seer (3); Lynched as Villager(1). Lost as Villager(1), Lost as Wolf(1) due to Parity. Hunted as Villager(1). Lynched as Seer(2).
Won as Villager(3). Won as Seer(1). Won as Wolf(3).
BM Characters: East Continent(Brock), Colonies(Ash), Dwilight(Gary)

DeVerci

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 245
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #42: May 29, 2017, 03:51:21 AM »
20k gold doesn't seem nearly enough.
Yea, mountains of gold does not really help all that much in the West due to the sheer grindy nature of fighting the rogue waves. When Westgard started I knew that several of us came with the 10,000 gold cap that could be taken from other islands. However a lot of it was immediately burned out by donating it to the realm for infrastructure, helping people recruit units since taxes weren't that great, replacing and recruiting your own units with no income, and then I managed to throw the rest of it away at Eidulb  :'(
So Westgard, with a ton of nobles and a ton of gold, still got its butt kicked around a fair deal, and may not have even made it without a little bit of divine intervention towards the beginning, and I doubt that would occur if Avernus tried to hightail it to Darfix.

Vita

  • Administrator
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1932
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #43: May 29, 2017, 04:39:24 AM »
and may not have even made it without a little bit of divine intervention towards the beginning
And we're still tweaking monster code to improve it. One day monster sailing will actually work on Dwilight and Beluaterra, damn it. And monster land movement could be vastly improved from what it is now, though it has also gotten a lot better than what it started as...

Chenier

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 7633
    • View Profile
Re: The Shameless Westgard Recruitment Thread
« Reply #44: May 29, 2017, 05:35:30 PM »
Indeed, and AFAIK, devs manually added population to the regions targetted for Westguard, something nobody else would benefit from when going for untamed regions. Having a region with near max pop off the bat is a HUGE boon.