The Current War

[Chenier]

I always wanted to fight a central realm.

Actually, we did fight Hetland, and that was frigging amazing.

If I understand everything correctly, there's a strong central realm resisting a big gang bang? The gang bangers must be awfully poor strategists. Attrition is my best friend, and attacking realms don't use it enough.

If the defenders are surrounded, that means they can't afford counter-attacks (unless the attackers are really, really stupid). Freedom of movement granted by this has such amazing potential.

Too bad I'm totally clueless as to what's going on in Atamara right now. I'm a MI lord. Maybe I'll petition for a marshal position if we ever get involved? Is MI friendly to the central guys or the surrounding guys?

[De-Legro]

I always wanted to fight a central realm.

Actually, we did fight Hetland, and that was frigging amazing.

If I understand everything correctly, there's a strong central realm resisting a big gang bang? The gang bangers must be awfully poor strategists. Attrition is my best friend, and attacking realms don't use it enough.

If the defenders are surrounded, that means they can't afford counter-attacks (unless the attackers are really, really stupid). Freedom of movement granted by this has such amazing potential.

Too bad I'm totally clueless as to what's going on in Atamara right now. I'm a MI lord. Maybe I'll petition for a marshal position if we ever get involved? Is MI friendly to the central guys or the surrounding guys?

I'm not even ON AT and I understand the situation better then this. The thread does a pretty good job of pointing out what the sides are, which realms are actually facing off against each other and what the problems are that each realm faces in trying to actually take the war somewhere. It is far more complicated then a single realm facing off against some sort of gang bang.

[Bedwyr]

If I understand everything correctly, there's a strong central realm resisting a big gang bang? The gang bangers must be awfully poor strategists. Attrition is my best friend, and attacking realms don't use it enough.

You're kidding, right?  The CE-bloc that's in the center is the single most notorious "gang-bang" offender in the game.  The rest of the island got tired of them dictating every war and finally "united" to do something about it.  CE/Tara/Talerium/Coria are not getting "gang-banged" in any way, shape, or form.  Add in all the factors, and it's a pretty even fight.

[De-Legro]

You're kidding, right?  The CE-bloc that's in the center is the single most notorious "gang-bang" offender in the game.  The rest of the island got tired of them dictating every war and finally "united" to do something about it.  CE/Tara/Talerium/Coria are not getting "gang-banged" in any way, shape, or form.  Add in all the factors, and it's a pretty even fight.

He did admit he doesn't really know what is going on with regards to AT

[Perth]

I question the wisdom of signing a treaty that disallows travel over the regions of a realm who you were just sacking the capitol of. 

You must keep in mind that when the treaty between Eston and Coria was signed Tara was still flirting with neutrality and trying to attack CE through Tara was not a real option. I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.

So what does that mean in terms of AT. I do believe that at the opening stages of this war there were some parties that were celebrating something like "CE will finally be taken down!". So...how likely is that going to be anyway?

Pretty much it means that unless the Northern Alliance can get its act together and get through to put severe pressure on northern CE, then CE will actually end up expanding its power in all likelihood.

[Gustav Kuriga]

You must keep in mind that when the treaty between Eston and Coria was signed Tara was still flirting with neutrality and trying to attack CE through Tara was not a real option. I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.

Pretty much it means that unless the Northern Alliance can get its act together and get through to put severe pressure on northern CE, then CE will actually end up expanding its power in all likelihood.

Would be nice for Eston to do its part. It takes forever for Darka and BoM to get down there, but they have a near instant refit time. Therefore they would be the logical choice for offensive actions.

[Perth]

Would be nice for Eston to do its part. It takes forever for Darka and BoM to get down there, but they have a near instant refit time. Therefore they would be the logical choice for offensive actions.

Please, outline for me the course of action Eston should take to adequately "do its part".

We have been unable to break through Talerium to get to CE without Darkan support, and even if we to get through Coria, so what? We sit and fight huge Taran/CE armies with no harm done to CE... which is the goal, if I'm not mistaken.

[Indirik]

At any rate, I think it is hard to argue with the fact that CE, Tara, Talerium, and Coria have the single most organized and efficient allied military system on Atamara, and likely in the entire game

I'll give you CE and Tara. They obviously have close coordination. Long practice and geographic proximity are probably the biggest factors in this. CE/Taras central position on the island is a major advantage, given that the political situation effectively negates the similarly major disadvantage of all of those miles and miles of borders. They've been able to narrow the frontlines to a very narrow stretch of land that is easily defended by their massive armies.

But let's not discount the value of advanced information. Coria's ability to give them several days worth of warning whenever a northern army is on the way. Much easier to have an army ready to meet the invaders if you already where they're going, and when they'll be there, four days in advance.

But I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree on Talerium's efficiency. From what I've see, Talerium's army is effective only when combined with CE/Tara's massive CS. Whenever Talerium tries to operate on their own, they move poorly, and choose horrible battles to fight. Almost like they don't  even bother scouting around, or considering the fact that there could be enemy forces nearby.

[Indirik]

I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.

If that were only an option, the war might already be over.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Please, outline for me the course of action Eston should take to adequately "do its part".

We have been unable to break through Talerium to get to CE without Darkan support, and even if we to get through Coria, so what? We sit and fight huge Taran/CE armies with no harm done to CE... which is the goal, if I'm not mistaken.

Eston should go on the offensive into Coria. Yes, I know, the treaty, but it was a stupid one to sign in the first place, given that we were plundering their capitol with impunity. Take them completely out of the war, one way or another, or at the very least force them to give us right to movement over their lands into Tara and CE. Once that phase is complete, attack Tara with BoM while Darka guards against attacks from Talerium.

[Munro]

Eston should go on the offensive into Coria. Yes, I know, the treaty, but it was a stupid one to sign in the first place, given that we were plundering their capitol with impunity.

Despite the hearsay and assumptions which have been made, so far Coria has actually been completely neutral. Yeah we are allied to CE, and I want them to win, especially given my dealings with the Northern realms (other than Eston).

But all you are suggesting is you add a bit more weight to the large armies CE and Tara can field, such an action would also allow Military access to Tara in the North East through Menedor which results in Eston being hit in a pincer movement themselves.

The only realms who can realistically take land from Eston in the North are Coria and Talerium. Would Saeculo and Coria accept land from Eston if we were to be offered it by our allies if and when they are victorious? I personally don't think so, not given Kerwin's attitude during the current War.

Given the current situation, I personally don't believe the North would benefit hugely from attacking Coria. Whether or not Coria chooses to become involved again itself is something that we'll have to wait and see.

But woop-de-doo you sacked our Capital and left when a large army of CE/Tara had arrived. You didn't even achieve that through a huge Military victory. It was completed through political finesse. Merlin is no longer the sole ambassador and such a situation would not arise again in my opinion through such means.

In my previous statement about the arrogance of the Northern realms, I only meant some of them (mainly the ones I named). I wouldn't say that Eston was at all. 

[Indirik]

But woop-de-doo you sacked our Capital and left when a large army of CE/Tara had arrived. You didn't even achieve that through a huge Military victory. It was completed through political finesse.

Actually it was along the lines of taking advantage of a serendipitous opportunity.

"Wow, this is a rather large army we assembled in Belegmon. Too bad this march up into the mountains is so stinking long... I hate these mountains."

"Hey, wait a minute. Barad Falas doesn't have much militia. And it's mostly archers. And Coria's army is in Menedor. And the duke's not in his city.

"Anyone know where the duke is?"

"Not me...."

"I think he's over in Anost. Lemme get a scout report. ... Yep, he's in Anost."

"Anost? WTF is he doing in Anost?"

"How the hell should I know?"

"Well, who cares. Attack!"


Seriously, that's pretty much how it went. Not a single northern general or marshal knew anything at all about Eston's planned peace talks with Coria, or that the duke of Barad Falas was headed to Eston to conduct peace talks. You'd think that would have been something that Eston should have told their general. Who should then have told the rest of the northern armies. Because I swear to god, that luring the duke out and then attacking was /not/ planned. There was no northern conspiracy to lure the duke away. (Unless it was Eston's general's private plan. But I don't see that as being the case. If it was, then more power to him. But I doubt it.) IMO, it was a simple case of lack of communication in Eston, and more than a little naïveté on the part of Coria's duke.

[Lavigna]

I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.

You think that because this is what benefits your point of view at this point.Because if you were to open your borders to massacre you would think otherwise.

If Darka goes against Talerium and "opens" as you say the Cantril path BY WAR, then all those that come into Eston now and loot will do the same to Darka.Which means that once more they will find a way to keep a force back to defend.It is the same thing only you refuse to see it.

The fact is that there are talks about opening that path the peaceful way or talks for ending the war between Talerium and Eston and i don't see your character answering to those.If the King of Eston wanted to see the issue of Cantril solved then maybe he should take part on those discussions to which from what i know he stands mute.
Creating another warpath is not the only solution.

[Carna]

Hehe, I can picture that scene outside of Barad Falas

Creating another "warpath" may not be the only solution, but it seems to me to be a solution. It would allow the north to cut a fairly direct line to Eaglin, Cagil or even, for the big cash, Calis. Of course, that would mean fighting the way through Talerium, but is that more or less appealing than the current situation? Not for me to decide, obviously, but its a question that should be asked if things are to change.

I'm fairly apathetic as to who win's this particular war at this stage, probably because I haven't really been all that involved in it, but if it goes to who's worked hardest for it, it goes to the CE alliance. I'm constantly hoping for some real leadership to come from the opposition, but it seems very fragmented right now.

Some random thoughts for the sunset.

Finton.

[Munro]

Because I swear to god, that luring the duke out and then attacking was /not/ planned. There was no northern conspiracy to lure the duke away.

That's a shame, as in the North, that's been the most impressive (and successful) tactic I've witnessed so far. The fact it was by chance doesn't make it any less successful, but I'd have been even more impressed (simply because Eston seemed so sincere in it's agreement for peace and had most of the Corian leadership believing we wouldn't be attacked again- it just turns out that it actually was wanting peace and it wasn't a rouse!)