Author Topic: Lurian Resurgence  (Read 12291 times)

Zakky

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #15: January 18, 2018, 02:43:58 AM »
Friction and war with Fissoa and Madina? That is way too hopeful.

Unless you strike them first, Fissoa and Madina won't.

They are busy with monsters and dwindling player base. They don't have time to attack LN.

Chenier

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #16: January 19, 2018, 02:17:14 AM »
Friction and war with Fissoa and Madina? That is way too hopeful.

Unless you strike them first, Fissoa and Madina won't.

They are busy with monsters and dwindling player base. They don't have time to attack LN.

Even if you gave them time, regions, and infinite gold, they still wouldn't.

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #17: January 19, 2018, 11:28:45 AM »
Playing in Madina, rtoo busy with monsters. Sorry, Luria... call me later or take care of your own problems.  ;) ;)
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

feyeleanor

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #18: January 19, 2018, 02:57:28 PM »
I'd like to get boots back on the Western Continent so if Madina wants help they'll find a supportive voice in Luria's council.

Anaris

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #19: January 19, 2018, 02:59:41 PM »
I would strongly urge you to partner with Westgard for western expansion, rather than Madina. Given their strong foothold, it makes it much easier to gain critical mass.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Chenier

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #20: January 19, 2018, 03:36:33 PM »
I would strongly urge you to partner with Westgard for western expansion, rather than Madina. Given their strong foothold, it makes it much easier to gain critical mass.

Yea. When given actions, it's always better to join the more lively and promising, and not try to give a new life to a hollowed out corpse.

Westgard has a lot of nobles, some rich regions, and experience with dealing with the rogues.

Any group that would want to expand west would be better off starting from there.

any group that would want to expand west would also be better off killing Madina off to increase global density beforehand too, though.

Bronnen

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #21: January 19, 2018, 05:48:06 PM »
Who wants to kill Madina and Fissoa!

Daniel Coffey

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #22: January 23, 2018, 08:53:47 PM »
Hey guys,

Thanks again for all your replies so far, they're very frank and give an earnest opinion on the game as it stands now. I say the next part completely without tone or emotion, so don't take this for anger (ranting, maybe). I truly enjoy the game and don't expect anyone to tell me (or me to tell them) how to play it. I trust you all think that as well :)

However.

I do feel that chastising an honest effort of a new player to try and bring a breath of fresh air into any realm shouldn't be disregarded so callously as shown in these posts. We've had huge success bringing in new players so far, and I think many of them would be disappointed or uninterested with the game after seeing this kind of reaction from a simple recruitment thread. Personally, I feel let down, despite having a hundredth of the time less than many players here on Battlemaster, by the responses given by players here.

Why can't we teach an old dog new tricks? I for one, and many of the new guys certainly think we can. LN might not just be seeing resurgences, but revolutions also.

Who are you to decide LN is simply going to sit with its thumb up its arse some more? I hope we can collectively prove you wrong on that account. After all, why bother taking a continent over that's been burnt to ash, when we still have a perfectly good one to set aflame ourselves?

What's to say that solid RP, community and character development isn't as fun as rabid warfare? I thought this game, especially in Dwilight, was RP heavy. Didn't know it was a silent wargame of number crunching.

Thanks for reading. I hope to see many more join LN, and other realms, from here on out. May we all find common ground beating the snot out of each other when the time comes.

Chenier

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #23: January 23, 2018, 09:16:47 PM »
Hey guys,

Thanks again for all your replies so far, they're very frank and give an earnest opinion on the game as it stands now. I say the next part completely without tone or emotion, so don't take this for anger (ranting, maybe). I truly enjoy the game and don't expect anyone to tell me (or me to tell them) how to play it. I trust you all think that as well :)

However.

I do feel that chastising an honest effort of a new player to try and bring a breath of fresh air into any realm shouldn't be disregarded so callously as shown in these posts. We've had huge success bringing in new players so far, and I think many of them would be disappointed or uninterested with the game after seeing this kind of reaction from a simple recruitment thread. Personally, I feel let down, despite having a hundredth of the time less than many players here on Battlemaster, by the responses given by players here.

Why can't we teach an old dog new tricks? I for one, and many of the new guys certainly think we can. LN might not just be seeing resurgences, but revolutions also.

Who are you to decide LN is simply going to sit with its thumb up its arse some more? I hope we can collectively prove you wrong on that account. After all, why bother taking a continent over that's been burnt to ash, when we still have a perfectly good one to set aflame ourselves?

What's to say that solid RP, community and character development isn't as fun as rabid warfare? I thought this game, especially in Dwilight, was RP heavy. Didn't know it was a silent wargame of number crunching.

Thanks for reading. I hope to see many more join LN, and other realms, from here on out. May we all find common ground beating the snot out of each other when the time comes.

I'm sorry, but history keeps repeating itself. It's not the first time a fresh group arrives to Luria (or other hollowed out realms), only to repeat the very same mistakes of those that preceded them, despite the warnings about their path.

I've been in BM a long time, despite a relatively small hiatus. It takes insane levels of activity to whip an inactive realm into action. It almost never works. I've done it, so have a few others, but the time we put into the game to do that... could be considered a part time job. Easily 15+ hours per week, at peaks, I'm sure some of us doubled that. And that's combining time, experience, and pre-established networks of other addicted and experienced players. It's insane.

The game has changed much since, though. You no longer have to fight a horde of 40+ silent guys who haven't even checked the voting page in years (since it was set-and-forget), nor the nepotic culture that stood in the way of all social mobility. But there is still a lot of inertia.

Overall, though, it always was, and will always remain, much more worthwhile to join a realm full of promise, to build off that, than to take a slumbering giant, and hope to wake it up. Avernus and Anor would likely have been your best bets, otherwise Morek and Swordfell. It's always a good idea to look at a realm you want to fight with, and look at a very simple data point: when was the last time it went to war? Realms that haven't been to war in ages usually not only have strong cultural inclinations not to do so, but also serious game mechanic reasons not to (mostly geography). Even if you magically change the culture, the rest remains.

When it comes down to Luria specifically, you gotta ask yourself: if you want war, then why don't you seek war? Because the moment you start down the "I want war, but I'll do it later" road, you'll never get off it. Don't forget, this is Dwilight. The more you expand, the more monsters attack you. And this means, the more you need to stay on the defensive and fix up your regions. What started up as a proposition to spend a little time to gather more resources for a war end up as a full time occupation in itself.

You want a war? Do you seriously want a war? Ask yourself that. Because if you do, then go make one. The present is always the best time, or just about. Fissoa and Madina are right next door, and no one can help them. There's also Swordfell, that nobody likes. "Just do it".

But it might already be too late... getting all the cities around the sea was "cool", but I suspect Shinnen won't help you in your projects.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 10:51:10 PM by Chenier »

Bronnen

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #24: January 23, 2018, 10:47:28 PM »
Like Chenier said,

We've seen this done time and time again over the years. The reason were giving the suggestions we are is because the current method isn't working. Expansion on Dwilight doesn't (often) bring any realms into conflict with any others, all it does it create a horde of monsters that assault your walls and you're stuck fighting them off for months until you get bored of doing that and your players leave. It happens over and over again.

Vita`

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #25: January 23, 2018, 10:54:12 PM »
I haven't said much here, but as a former lurian player (and ruler), admin, and lover of everything lurian, I wholeheartedly encourage you (Daniel Coffey) to seriously consider the advice given to you above. That said, I absolutely understand that the cynicism expressed within that advice is quite off-putting to a new player. I'm trying to say that there are some golden nuggets hiding beneath stinky piles of poo.

To condense some words, BM is a primarily social game. The roleplay and character development isn't as fun in an area with fewer people to interact with. That applies in terms of total people seeing and possibly responding to your messages, and competition for various titles and positions.  Not everyone is meant to be a lord, and the more realms exist, the more council positions exist. And the more council positions exist, the more people to disagree and conflict. BM used to be very dense. Over time, with expansion and then playerbase loss, we've created more space than players. Hence the focus on increasing density over the last few years, so that there are more players in a more crowded environment. We've closed two islands and created mechanics to balance roguelands vs human-occupied land; these mechanics are not perfect and still being adjusted. And increasing density must be balanced with consideration for players, as we don't want to send a doomstack to crush folks, but provide gradual pressure. This is the background to the advice encouraging luria to head north to be closer to more realms, or to try to take out Madina and Fissoa for taking up space while not doing much of anything, which would result in increased density with less human-occupied land.

The experiences in BM differ widely by island and realm. Some are more RP-engaging, others are more war and silent. Some excel at both. If you ever find a place you dislike and you aren't able to bring about change, I highly encourage you to try somewhere else.

And I need to run out the door, so I'll stop here, but I want to echo your sentiments of bring fresh air into a realm, proving folks wrong about Luria, and finding common ground beating the snot out of each other. I wish you the best, but I also very much wish you to consider the words written by more experienced players, even if those words are a bit jaded. We've been through a lot over the years, do bear with us. :)

Archival

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #26: January 23, 2018, 11:01:05 PM »
Like Chenier said,

We've seen this done time and time again over the years. The reason were giving the suggestions we are is because the current method isn't working. Expansion on Dwilight doesn't (often) bring any realms into conflict with any others, all it does it create a horde of monsters that assault your walls and you're stuck fighting them off for months until you get bored of doing that and your players leave. It happens over and over again.

Hi Bronnen.

I get the explanation of it all, and I think we've all taken it on board. You need to be careful around expansionism or monster incursions start to escalate, which isn't generally ideal. I do take issue with the tone some people (primarily Chenier) have taken in response though. Rather than trying to provide a helping hand to new players and give suggestions (as you've worded yourself), all I'm getting the impression of is that some of the established veteran players active on the BM forums have a set idea of how the game should be played (and let's remember, BM and especially Dwilight is an open world RPG, with a certain level of priority placed on the RP aspect), and try to ram that down the throats of new players. I understand it's an open forum and people can and should give their views and advice, but when it feels like someone is trying to dictate how I should play, rather than help guide and let us make our own mistakes/successes (which I'm fine with - in my opinion, defeat breeds just as much, if not more, fun RP. I had a load of fun writing a story about my whole unit being destroyed), which is far more likely to make me want to disengage from the community than any setbacks. I guess, in summary, I'm asking for there to be less immediate, full-on negativity and bit more willingness to engage with new players. There's not just one set way to play this game and it would be very dull if it was. I'm not here to play to win, or to play number crunch maximum efficiency war simulator or to be condescended to.

That being said, I've been made to feel super welcome by the old guard members of Luria and am enjoying myself a lot so far. The game has a lot of potential for fun, so I hope the glory days aren't completely behind it.

And as I've been writing this, I see Vita has had made a good post, which I'll definitely take on board.

Chenier

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #27: January 23, 2018, 11:16:48 PM »
Then I wish you the best.

I mentioned a hiatus in my last post: I had been playing BM from 2006 to about 2015, I believe. I had all the titles by then, had played every role. Why'd I quit? Because I kept trying to make a stagnant realm lively, and it finally hit me that, for most of my BM time, that's what I had put so much effort in, with so little reward.

When I came back, a year later, I was (and still am) mostly jaded, I'll concede. But I came back due to the memories of the times I was with promising people, that together, we built awesome things. There's really a lot of things in my play time that I think fondly of. But I made myself a promise: I'm not gonna burn myself out where there isn't any potential. Or where there's too little. I started with just one character, eventually two nobles. I joined and left a bunch of realms. Again and again. Until I found realms that lived up to their promise. And now I'm having fun. But if those realms start to stagnate? Then I'll leave them again, and go elsewhere.

I don't mean to tell you that there's only one way to play. There are many, all equally valid. But this game is also governed by game mechanics, and by strong player cultures. Many things are possible, but not everything is. You want to found an empire that spans over all of Dwilight, for example? That's fine as long as you realize you'll never pull it off. You want to start a colony in Castle Nightscree? That's just never going to work.

Just because people have failed before us, doesn't mean we necessarily will. But if you want reasonable chance at success, then carefully studying why your predecessors failed is critical to making sure you don't share the same outcome.

I'm sorry for my attitude, but it feels like not so long ago, a bunch of players joined Luria, saying the exact same thing. And instead they just focused on expansion, and then never lifted a finger against anyone else. I don't play in those whereabouts anymore, but I find it frustrating. That area has serious geographical restraints, but is not without any potential. Luria did get in a few wars, back in the days. It has an overpowered economy potential which allows it to project a strong army really far away. But that's been ages ago.

Vita`

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #28: January 24, 2018, 01:00:22 AM »
in my opinion, defeat breeds just as much, if not more, fun RP
I commend this and wish this sentiment were stronger within BM.

Archival

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Re: Lurian Resurgence
« Reply #29: January 24, 2018, 03:05:13 AM »
I commend this and wish this sentiment were stronger within BM.

It seems obvious, but it's so often overlooked by players who place all their focus on winning. But in something like BM, you can't really beat the game. Even if you owned all the land in a continent, there's always going to be someone ready to stir up trouble.

But I'm going off on a tangent. From my personal experience so far, Luria has been a blast. But that's no doubt in part because I haven't just arrived to fight in wars, I'm here to write stories about my character, RP with others and generally enjoy playing my character as more than just a pawn in a war-game. I'm enjoying a lot just travelling and generally doing RP with someone else from the empire who I hadn't met before coming to the game at the moment. The old-guard have been welcoming and have always been happy to teach me both IC and OOC, so I do find it a bit hard to see the negativity that some people have espoused so far.

I often get the impression that people think warfare is all there is to it in BM - either being involved in it, recovering from it or preparing for it. I haven't been around long to say for sure, but I don't think that's the case and more than that I hope it isn't.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 03:54:42 AM by Archival »