Author Topic: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)  (Read 60311 times)

Anaris

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #105: September 28, 2011, 07:34:18 PM »
When it comes to stability, the government style is irrelevant. All the treaties, constitutions, and all that other jazz aren't worth anything more than the paper they're written one. It's the attitude of the nobles in the realm that counts.

And the realm I've been in that had the most stability without being terminally boring and prioritizing people who've been playing since 2002 over everyone else was Riombara, a republic that tried to be a democracy ;)
Timothy Collett

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Indirik

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #106: September 28, 2011, 07:36:03 PM »
Meh... all those Riombarans ever do is talk. They talk so much that they decided not to do anything for the fourth invasion, and ended up basically sitting it out. Besides, everyone knows you can't trust Riombarans.
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Anaris

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #107: September 28, 2011, 07:37:55 PM »
Meh... all those Riombarans ever do is talk. They talk so much that they decided not to do anything for the fourth invasion, and ended up basically sitting it out. Besides, everyone knows you can't trust Riombarans.

I think you're mixing up Riombarans with Melites.  Riombara had to sit out most of the Fourth Invasion because they did more than just talk, and has been trying for the last 6 years to get wars going against Enweil.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Vellos

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #108: September 28, 2011, 07:48:05 PM »
Constant wars against your neighbors and multiple secessions does not strike me as "stable." I would call Riombara "highly volatile."
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Lorgan

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #109: September 28, 2011, 08:01:34 PM »
Also... we zapped about 100k CS monsters into oblivion with our amazing magical powers. And kicked their asses with our awesome military powers in Grehk before that!

Indirik

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #110: September 28, 2011, 08:34:29 PM »
You got your asses handed to you by the monsters six ways from Sunday. The only reason you survived is because the monsters showed mercy and let you live.
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Chenier

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #111: September 28, 2011, 09:12:24 PM »
IME, republics and democracies prove to differ only in the titles they give the councilors.

When it comes to stability, the government style is irrelevant. All the treaties, constitutions, and all that other jazz aren't worth anything more than the paper they're written one. It's the attitude of the nobles in the realm that counts.

And that attitude is conditioned by government style. And I don't mean Theocracy, Tyranny, Democracy, Republic, or Monarchy on the realm info page. I mean how it really works within. Republics are oligarchic by definition. The power is concentrated in the hands of a handful of people who have been in the realm for a while, earned their power somehow, and have something to lose should the realm fail or take significant risks. Republicanism is therefore different than democracies, which try to be egalitarian, often by having everyone vote on a lot of stuff. However, people who have nothing to lose, like most knights, are much less risk-averse and therefore much more easily swayed by a good orator/propagandist, and therefore more likely to turn on allies as a good chunk of the voter base might not have ever dealt with said allies, and the alliance probably dates since before many of them were part of the realm. They are therefore more susceptible to drastic policy changes than republics are. Autocracies, on the other hand, offer a usually much more stable set of policy, but only for as long as you have the same ruler. If he gets replaced, everything can change.

Some "Republics" are much more democratic than most democracies.

Constant wars against your neighbors and multiple secessions does not strike me as "stable." I would call Riombara "highly volatile."

I would not. The wars have always been against the same people, secessions have been few and far apart, one of them resulting from a very particular context (invasion). Delvin has ruled until he got tired of it, and even with a series of newer rulers, Riombara is still doing the same old thing it always was.

Riombara is the epitome of stability, if you ask me. Nothing surprising ever comes from there. Same mentality and agenda since forever.

Stability has nothing to do with docility. A realm could be a stable warmonger, and another could be a peaceful realm of chaos. Stability is the consistency of realm politics over time. In a stable realms, rulers come and go (with the weeks or years, regardless), and nobody sees any difference for it in how the realm governs itself or deals with others.
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Geronus

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #112: September 28, 2011, 09:44:26 PM »
You got your asses handed to you by the monsters six ways from Sunday. The only reason you survived is because the monsters showed mercy and let you live.

QFT.

Evander would never, ever admit it IC, to himself let alone anyone else, but the Meridian Republic almost certainly saved our bacon.

Anaris

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #113: September 28, 2011, 10:37:36 PM »
I would not. The wars have always been against the same people, secessions have been few and far apart, one of them resulting from a very particular context (invasion). Delvin has ruled until he got tired of it, and even with a series of newer rulers, Riombara is still doing the same old thing it always was.

Riombara is the epitome of stability, if you ask me. Nothing surprising ever comes from there. Same mentality and agenda since forever.

That's exactly what I meant by it.  The mindset, the policies—they've started to change some since Delvin stepped down (or at least, they had started to when he retired), but they're still very much rooted in what Delvin built over the past 6 years—which he built on the foundation laid down by the re-founders like Tan.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Vellos

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #114: September 29, 2011, 04:25:19 AM »
That's exactly what I meant by it.  The mindset, the policies—they've started to change some since Delvin stepped down (or at least, they had started to when he retired), but they're still very much rooted in what Delvin built over the past 6 years—which he built on the foundation laid down by the re-founders like Tan.

lol, like how we allow multiple posts per person, allow torture, have shrunk the Advisory Council, and don't hold trials before bans?

Yep. I'm doing my job.
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Geronus

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #115: October 04, 2011, 08:02:01 PM »
lol, like how we allow multiple posts per person, allow torture, have shrunk the Advisory Council, and don't hold trials before bans?

Yep. I'm doing my job.

I agree  :D The current election for Great Chamberlain should be an interesting indicator of where the realm is headed.

Vellos

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #116: October 05, 2011, 06:55:36 PM »
MUAHAHA!!!

Cyrilos, the hyperviolent cult-fanatic proto-fascist wins again!

We're one step closer to being Riombara Tilog.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

Geronus

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #117: October 05, 2011, 07:12:31 PM »
We're one step closer to being Riombara Tilog.

How did we even end up talking about this in the Veinsormoot thread again?  ;)

Congratulations on your narrow victory. I suggest you press you press your advantage.

Vellos

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #118: October 05, 2011, 08:52:07 PM »
How did we even end up talking about this in the Veinsormoot thread again?  ;)

Congratulations on your narrow victory. I suggest you press you press your advantage.

Oh, I plan to. And if it leads to my honor/prestige falling below the threshold to be judge... so be it.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

Chenier

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Re: Veinsormoot (Split from Luria Nova thread)
« Reply #119: October 05, 2011, 09:16:01 PM »
I hear Enweil's had a couple of good victories lately.
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