Reworking Trade

[Indirik]

This has nothing to do with economics. This has to do with people playing a game. All your fancy university economics are nothing more than an interesting theory.

And why do I think these things would happen? Two reasons:

1) It's what I would do.
2) I've seen it start happening already.

[Creed]

The realm would punish him because he's directly harming the realm out of greed. My duke would openly ask for the person to be banned in the realm messaging system, and would likely gain the requested support.

Especially while at war, greed that hurts a realm cannot be accepted.

lol harming my realm in which way? because i choose to charge a fair market value for my product I am thus harming my realm?  Any gold that my realm pays me or buyers pay me will inevitably be invest back into the realm I am apart of be in through recruitment of soldiers  for a war or building of better infrastructure.

The whole point in giving large amount of food production to rural regions is to allow for them to be important and also allow for their lords and knights to have a chance to make a good amount of gold. If I choose to sell my excess gold for a large sum of gold I do not see a problem with this because it is my food. I already pay a tax to my Duke and My king I owe nothing else to them.

Besides if you see no problem with allowing me to charge more gold for my food because of actions that other will take against me then I do not see the problem here. Allow for lords to charge more for food and we can see what will happen.

Also if this game is suppose to be medieval so greed kind of comes with being a noble all nobles want more power and wealth.     

[Creed]

@creed: you'd rather let all your food rot away and make no money at all, than sell for 50/100? If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but no price will ever be enough for you.

I can guarantee you that if you had food that the realm needed, and wanted 100/100, one of three things would happen:
1) the realm would ban you and put in someone willing to sell for a realistic price
2) your duke would raise your taxes to a stupidly high level to pay the stupidly high price you're asking (in which case all the lords in the duchy would be pissed at you and probably ask for you to be banned)
3) the banker will slap fines on you for the amount of gold you're making from food sales.

Being able to set stupid high prices for food adds nothing to the game, and only enables trade system exploits.

I find it interesting that you think people would want to ban me for trying to do business. I found a way to make a good amount of gold in a legal way . I don't see why my duke will have a problem with it. Besides I read all the time on the forums oh I have all this gold I don't know what to do with. If this is true then I don't see why I cant charge more for my product .

If TOM wants us to trade more on dwilight then I recommend that he allows us to charge more for our food and allow supply and demand to determine the price.

As for your question if I would rather see food rot then make some gold my answer is I would rather see realms starve then charge a substandard price for my food.

[Velax]

I would rather see realms starve then charge a substandard price for my food.

You just answered your own question about why your own realm would ban you if you tried this.

[Penchant]

As for your question if I would rather see food rot then make some gold my answer is I would rather see realms starve then charge a substandard price for my food.

Where are you getting your standard for prices?

[Creed]

You just answered your own question about why your own realm would ban you if you tried this.

I would rather see realms starve then pay a substandard price yes but I would not let my own realm starve so I don't see what my realm mates would care who I sold food to and who I did not. It is my food to deal with no one else s.

[Creed]

Where are you getting your standard for prices?

Penchant if you don't believe I cant get more then 50 gold out of food I don't know what to tell you. All I can say think on how supply and demand works. Then think on how companies use supply and demand to make more money and that is your answer.

[Velax]

It is my food to deal with no one else s.

Well...not really. It depends greatly on the culture of your realm, amongst other things. For starters, the game specifically tells the ruler that all the lands belong to him, so technically it's his food. And there are plenty of realms that expect nobles to part with their food for free. And any region lord that tells his duke, banker, judge or ruler that, "This food is mine, I'll charge whatever I want for it so to hell with you" probably isn't going to be in the realm long.

Edit: You've also ignored the whole "It's to stop exploits" reason. You seem to think having any cap at all will stop the exploit, whereas it's more likely that the higher the cap, the more gold exploiters can gain. Cap = 50 gold, not much profit from the exploit. Cap = 500 gold, as you suggested, lots of profit for exploiters.

[Lefanis]

@creed: you'd rather let all your food rot away and make no money at all, than sell for 50/100? If that's the case, then I'm sorry, but no price will ever be enough for you.

I can guarantee you that if you had food that the realm needed, and wanted 100/100, one of three things would happen:
1) the realm would ban you and put in someone willing to sell for a realistic price
2) your duke would raise your taxes to a stupidly high level to pay the stupidly high price you're asking (in which case all the lords in the duchy would be pissed at you and probably ask for you to be banned)
3) the banker will slap fines on you for the amount of gold you're making from food sales.

Being able to set stupid high prices for food adds nothing to the game, and only enables trade system exploits.

Well, I might not sell to my realm at 80 per 100. But I sure as hell would sell it to my starving neighbouring realm at a price like that. My character purposefully sets the price low in realm, and set it to 50, the max it can go, for outsiders. And he manages to sell all his food at 50 gold. If he could, he would raise the price, just to see how desperate his neighbours are  :D

I don't think raising the cap just a little will cause so many exploits, besides, it would discourage food hoarding and encourage the trade game, especially on continents like FEI, where food is at a premium.

[fodder]

food hoarding just mean you lose more to rot. the more you have, the more you lose.

raising cap doesn't cause any exploits. it just make the exploits (shifting funds between realms via bonds, etc) easier... not that i'm for or against any cap.

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how much food does a "normal" rural produce nowadays anyway? i'm thinking a rural will be most profitable if they shift the rot to the consumers.. you can have 0 rot with low inventory

[Gustav Kuriga]

I still have not heard exactly what this "exploit" is. Only thing I can think of is selling food from one lord to another of the same player.

[Lefanis]

@Indirik- And suppose that the realm did decide to ban him- all right, let him face the consequences. Sucks for him. But at least he brought it upon himself. The consequences he may or may not face isnt an argument for the cap.

@fodder- eeps, noticed a typo. I mean discourage, not encourage. In BM now, if you produce a surplus, and your viable trading partners are not on good terms with you, you can either hoard it and let it rot (better than letting it get into their stinking hands!), or you can jack up your rates to 50 gold per 100. The fact that people are still buying at 50 gold, means it is still worth more to them. That is why I feel the cap should be increased a bit, to allow the buyer and seller to gauge the price the other is willing to sell/buy at.

[Lefanis]

This number is the maximum rate at which food can be converted into gold for that region, when the gold is the max gold production and food the max food consumption. Therefore, if the price for food goes over that value, then it is a net loss in value to purchase food. The solution is not to purchase any food and let population decline until purchasing food is profitable.

When pop goes down due to starvation, it usually takes a while to recover. So you still have to factor in the gold you might have earned at max production, during the recovery period, to offset the gold you might spend on the food. I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'd guess the limit is still a little above 50 gold.

[Indirik]

@gustav: I'm not going to sit here and list possible exploits. Think it through.

As for the cap, I agree, 50 may be a bit low. Maybe once food balance has been achieved, tom will think about raising it some. Or maybe once trade delays have been put back in.

[Foundation]

Someone calculate the marginal gold generated per food.

I am fairly certain when I did it a few yeaes ago for some cities, 50 is more than enough of a cap.  Beyond the value of the food.