The Zuma

[Scarlett]

If you are playing in the Chesney Duchy/Realm you would do well to find out IG what really is going on.

How? I've talked to every neighboring ruler and all the local magnates for the last two weeks. Not once did the Zuma come up. Nobody in Saffalore knows what's going on or why.

I'm sure you 'did something' to arrange this, but frankly I don't care what it is. It doesn't involve any of the people I play BM with, so you can have whatever it is you want. At least, I sure won't stop you.

[Scarlett]

Actually, he was protested out of office because he called Haktoo "the Almighty," which sparked some very vitriolic anti-Zuma sentiment

It was anti-Kas sentiment. If he'd called Grimrog the Almighty the same thing would've happened.

[Scarlett]

The Zuma are working with Asylon and Aurvandiil because of Asylons good relations and Aurvandiil had lady Kabrinski. Terran and a few other realms hadnt cultivated good relations with the Zuma, thereby suffering for it. Its just like Morek declaring war on Asylon... Goodcome closer to the Zuma who cant wait to fight you. Basically Astrum os left alone to fight us. Just the way we want it.

There was a very good chance that Saffalore would've allied with Asylon. They weren't committed to the 'moot or to anyone else. Other players were scheming about which way they were going to go once they got established.

I guess we forgot to scheme with the GMs.

[dustole]

How? I've talked to every neighboring ruler and all the local magnates for the last two weeks. Not once did the Zuma come up. Nobody in Saffalore knows what's going on or why.

I'm sure you 'did something' to arrange this, but frankly I don't care what it is. It doesn't involve any of the people I play BM with, so you can have whatever it is you want. At least, I sure won't stop you.

Have you asked around to see who is an expert on the Zuma?  Who might be able to answer questions about the Zuma?  Perhaps you aren't asking the right questions.  I can assure you that Allison had nothing to do with this. 

[Vellos]

dustole says Hireshmont knows what's going on.

That is false. Hireshmont has heard nothing.

Then again, lots of people aren't talking to Hireshmont anymore....

[dustole]

dustole says Hireshmont knows what's going on.

That is false. Hireshmont has heard nothing.

Then again, lots of people aren't talking to Hireshmont anymore....

I went back and looked at my sent letters.  I guess I didn't send anything to Hireshmont.   It must have been some OOC gloating I was thinking of.   :)

[Vellos]

I went back and looked at my sent letters.  I guess I didn't send anything to Hireshmont.   It must have been some OOC gloating I was thinking of.   :)

That's highly plausible.

:P

I would point out though: this is a common phenomenon. i.e. the bias of how many people know something because you know it. We see this in every invasion, every Zuma action, and many non-GM related actions.

We tend to overestimate how much other people know, how included other people feel. This is especially true for highly-active players who send lots of letters to marginally less active players: because those players won't spread it as much as we do. And even then, I know for me, I consider something common knowledge if I send letters about it to, like, 6 people. Which is bologna: because while it's no longer "secret" then, it still leaves 90% of players out. The ones it leaves out the most are the ones most effected: the targets.

Som degree of that is native to the game.

But there is extra frustration when it comes simultaneously with a massive multi-cheating fiasco that enabled an exceptional degree of secrecy and coordination. Hence why Quintus has now deleted his character.

Just something I hope the Zuma GM keeps in mind right now. We could be facing losing a double-digit number of non-multi players in Terran and its successors just due to frustration with this current situation where they get no explanation on anything. Because there is a powerful bias at work here: because you know something doesn't mean other people do. And you shouldn't assume people know to ask you.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I know what Fangfang is doing but I have no idea what the Zuma in Chesney are up to. I only heard about them attacking there from Allison.  Why they are there I don't know.

All I know is that why the Zuma are involved is legit. I just hate letting out why its happening and letting SA/ the Moot know Asylons long term strategies right now.

ALl I can say is that I cannot thank Dwilight enough for diplomatically isolating us and pushing us closer to the Zuma... You bloody fools.  8)

[Scarlett]

This thread and Allison's replies are a better case against GM factions than anything I could say.

It's as if it's a bad idea when one person controls a lot of power in a social, team game. Hey, wait a minute...

[egamma]

I guess we forgot to scheme with the GMs.

You've never played Dungeons & Dragons, have you?

If the Dungeon Master puts an NPC with a large army in your area of operations, he probably does not intend for you to ignore said army.

[Kwanstein]

It's as if it's a bad idea when one person controls a lot of power in a social, team game. Hey, wait a minute...

It would be... if this were a competitive game. But it's not. It's a cross between Dungeons and Dragons and a board game like Risk. Think of the Zuma game master as the dungeon master of this Risk game. He's not here to abuse power by beating people and claiming victory -- no, he's here to facilitate the story telling process. The unfortunate thing is that most of the players don't care about the story and just want to level up and find epic loot, so to speak.

[Penchant]

This thread and Allison's replies are a better case against GM factions than anything I could say.

It's as if it's a bad idea when one person controls a lot of power in a social, team game. Hey, wait a minute...

While I find it kind of pathetic you had a tantrum and deleted your character, its what you should have done, just I see it as pathetic when doing it in a rage-quit manner (without the rage at players) then a I have thought about this for a bit and decided I should delete my character. If you don't like the Zuma, which has been there for awhile and has always been said to be there for a reason/something to play with not simply ignore, then you should just leave the island as that is part of Dwilight, like you did. What you shouldn't do is go, I don't like this so we shouldn't have it in the game. (IMO anyways)

[Norrel]

It would be... if this were a competitive game. But it's not. It's a cross between Dungeons and Dragons and a board game like Risk. Think of the Zuma game master as the dungeon master of this Risk game. He's not here to abuse power by beating people and claiming victory -- no, he's here to facilitate the story telling process. The unfortunate thing is that most of the players don't care about the story and just want to level up and find epic loot, so to speak.

And you know what? If I was a DM and my group wanted to fight and find epic loot, I wouldn't punish them, I wouldn't ruin the game, I wouldn't arbitrarily destroy their stuff and claim that they aren't playing the game the way I want them to, I'd do what they want. If I don't do what they want, I'm a !@#$ty DM, they stop playing with me. That's the way it goes. The DM is providing a service, the game is not about him, it is about the players.

But they can't leave this !@#$ty powertripping DM because they have literally invested hundreds or thousands of hours into their sandbox, and this toddler is running around and smashing !@#$ up because he's not being paid attention to. !@#$ that.

[Penchant]

And you know what? If I was a DM and my group wanted to fight and find epic loot, I wouldn't punish them, I wouldn't ruin the game, I wouldn't arbitrarily destroy their stuff and claim that they aren't playing the game the way I want them to, I'd do what they want. If I don't do what they want, I'm a !@#$ty DM, they stop playing with me. That's the way it goes. The DM is providing a service, the game is not about him, it is about the players.

But they can't leave this !@#$ty powertripping DM because they have literally invested hundreds or thousands of hours into their sandbox, and this toddler is running around and smashing !@#$ up because he's not being paid attention to. !@#$ that.

That is the most annoying/selfish post I have ever seen. The Zuma GM didn't go, lets randomly !@#$ up Terran/Chesney. The Zuma GM interacted with characters and because of the interactions, this is happening. The Zuma GM would be a !@#$ty GM is every time somebody bitched, he changed how the Zuma was done just to make the whiner happy. Ignoring the Zuma is like ignoring Astrum or Morek, you can do so but its a bad idea as they still exist and they are powerful.

[Norrel]

That is the most annoying/selfish post I have ever seen. The Zuma GM didn't go, lets randomly !@#$ up Terran/Chesney. The Zuma GM interacted with characters and because of the interactions, this is happening. The Zuma GM would be a !@#$ty GM is every time somebody bitched, he changed how the Zuma was done just to make the whiner happy. Ignoring the Zuma is like ignoring Astrum or Morek, you can do so but its a bad idea as they still exist and they are powerful.

It's not selfish, I don't live anywhere near the Zuma and never will. Thank God.

And I'm not saying they should change their behavior, I'm saying they should just dissapear without a trace. They're supposed to be enigmatic, it's not like there's anything preventing them from just disappearing beyond an obsession with a failed experiment.

That comparison doesn't follow. If I get crushed by a rival kingdom, I am being crushed within the confines and the rulesets of the sandbox. I built up something, they built up something, and we fought and I lost. That's all fair. I could have done the same. What isn't fair is when someone stomps around, blowing !@#$ up, playing by different rules and demanding you either heed him or leave the game. One is fair game, the other is a GM who thinks his power gives him leave to do whatever he wants. I've yet to hear one single argument about how the Zuma enhances the sandbox. Everything put in the game needs to do one thing: enhance player choice. The Zuma do the exact opposite. They are attention whores and bullies of the highest order.