The Zuma

[Anaris]

Then we really should have herded up the peasant population, got our priest to whip them up into a religious frenzy and spilt enough blood to bring down an orbital blast to destroy every abomination on the continent. Pity the light never gave us that option huh.

You never offered.

[Indirik]

And what I think Anaris (Who was the Light controller, btw) might have hinted at when channeling the personae of the Light was that human blood is human blood, and the Light, the strength of faith or whatever, cares not for arbitrary human distinctions.

Maybe that's why the Light wasn't strong enough to actually accomplish it's goals. Think of how much better they would have done if they actually recognized the true superiority of noble blood, and didn't contaminate their power with common blood.

[Geronus]

You never offered.

How would we have known to ask? You'd think the Servants of Light, had they been truly interested in helping us, would have probably given us an indication that the Temples were capable of more if in fact they were.

[De-Legro]

How would we have known to ask? You'd think the Servants of Light, had they been truly interested in helping us, would have probably given us an indication that the Temples were capable of more if in fact they were.

Perhaps such things had to be freely offered, without prompting, in order to be effective? It does seem logical that if the light were after blood and life force that perhaps an enterprising noble seeking others to bear the burden may have looked to those he traditionally exploited for the solution.

[Anaris]

Perhaps such things had to be freely offered, without prompting, in order to be effective? It does seem logical that if the light were after blood and life force that perhaps an enterprising noble seeking others to bear the burden may have looked to those he traditionally exploited for the solution.

Not just that, but did you expect a GM to come in and say, "Here. Here is the way to completely win the invasion. You just have to do these simple steps, and all the monsters and Daimons will be gone for good."?

[vonGenf]

Perhaps such things had to be freely offered, without prompting, in order to be effective? It does seem logical that if the light were after blood and life force that perhaps an enterprising noble seeking others to bear the burden may have looked to those he traditionally exploited for the solution.

If the nobles had freely offered to kill all the peasants, BT would have been saved? That gives a whole new meaning to freedom.....

[Indirik]

Well, you can't enslave the dead, can you?

Oh wait....

[Anaris]

If the nobles had freely offered to kill all the peasants, BT would have been saved? That gives a whole new meaning to freedom.....

Now, I didn't say that.

[Geronus]

Not just that, but did you expect a GM to come in and say, "Here. Here is the way to completely win the invasion. You just have to do these simple steps, and all the monsters and Daimons will be gone for good."?

Not at all, but on the other hand did you really expect the players to read your mind?

Any plot in an RPG, whether BM or table-top, needs to have appropriate plot hooks. If you go to the effort of developing a story element that your players can use, you usually also build in a hook for them to find out about it, assuming you ever expect them to actually be able to use it. You don't (and shouldn't) have to shove this hook in their face, but for the plot to be a good one there has to be a reasonable chance for your players to find it, otherwise what the hell is the point of putting it in there?

Now, it's entirely possible that there *were* hooks and we just never found them or recognized them, but you sure don't make it sound that way.

[Anaris]

Not at all, but on the other hand did you really expect the players to read your mind?

No, and this was never really intended to be the way to do it.  In fact, if someone had figured out that it was possible, I would have strictly limited the amount it was usable (with RP of only certain amounts of the peasantry being willing to give up blood or lives to the Light).

But it's the kind of thing that follows logically from the way the publicized mechanics worked—if you started thinking in IC terms, and not game terms.

Any plot in an RPG, whether BM or table-top, needs to have appropriate plot hooks. If you go to the effort of developing a story element that your players can use, you usually also build in a hook for them to find out about it, assuming you ever expect them to actually be able to use it. You don't (and shouldn't) have to shove this hook in their face, but for the plot to be a good one there has to be a reasonable chance for your players to find it, otherwise what the hell is the point of putting it in there?

This was, IMO, one of the problems with both the third and fourth invasions. Unfortunately, it was a problem in all directions—some hooks were too obvious, others were too subtle, some players were too dense, others too canny.

[Indirik]

I would imagine it would be very hard to give people information in a way that they could be sure to get it, but in a way that doesn't make it blindingly obvious. Unless they parrot it back to you, how do you know they got it? And even then, there's no way to ensure that they share it with others. Or share it fully. Or share it accurately. Or don't just plain lie about it.

And then there's also the problem that you have three factions working at cross purposes, each sending out information that intentionally contradicted each other. Who do you trust? Who is lying? Are they all lying? Are they all telling some version of the truth?

[Geronus]

This was, IMO, one of the problems with both the third and fourth invasions. Unfortunately, it was a problem in all directions—some hooks were too obvious, others were too subtle, some players were too dense, others too canny.

That's a classic GM dilemma. A good GM can improvise and adjust his plot hooks if things are looking too hard or too easy, but doing this in a game with the scale of BM is probably a bit different than doing it when your party is five or six people whose abilities you are familiar with and whose actions you are aware of at all times...

[Vaylon Kenadell]

But it's the kind of thing that follows logically from the way the publicized mechanics worked—if you started thinking in IC terms, and not game terms.

You seem to have a hard time putting yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't have your knowledge.

[Anaris]

You seem to have a hard time putting yourself in the shoes of someone who doesn't have your knowledge.

Were you around in the 4th invasion?

It was made quite clear that human blood, given freely, would give power to the Light.

It doesn't take more knowledge to extrapolate from that to "NPC peasants are human too! Maybe their blood would work!"  Just some creativity.

[Shizzle]

Given freely?