Author Topic: Re: Idea: Plate Mail  (Read 47960 times)

Faulcon_deLacy

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #135: March 02, 2012, 12:47:50 PM »
I had a few items.  A couple got stolen when one character was captured in battle, but my Broken Sabre of Flame I got up to +11 prestige.  And it was an almighty pain, by the end it spent more time with adventurers being repaired than being carried by my character before it simply decayed too fast to even be repaired.  I couldn't even take it with me when we marched to battle for a couple of weeks without risking it falling apart before I could get back to find someone to fix it.  Cost a lot more to repair it than I ever spent on buying one.  That was over 6 months ago now, I've never bothered with an item again simply because they aren't worth the grief (to me at least).

I think the price of items varies greatly from island to island, I didn't see any being sold for 50 gold on FEI, 20 gold was more common.

Arrakis

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #136: March 02, 2012, 12:47:58 PM »
Don't forget that those 5 legendary items that no one wants to part with might cause quite interesting war opportunities  ;)
Gregorian (Eponllyn), Baudouin (Cathay), Thaddeus (Cathay), Leopold (Niselur)

vonGenf

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #137: March 02, 2012, 01:13:11 PM »
So no one will want the normal uniques,

Why? The unique would be in exactly the same situation as they are now. As has been shown, people do show interest. Nothing would change.


Quote
and we end up with 5 vanity items that people make every effort to never part with, which is exactly what the whole needing repair system was designed to counter. I love the idea of truly legendary items, I just don't see how it would work when they represent exactly what the system was designed to avoid.

I don't know why the system was designed to avoid that. The point is this system makes people weary of attaching RP significance to the items and treat them as just vanity gear.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

egamma

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #138: March 02, 2012, 01:19:58 PM »
I maintain my position that there is a vocal minority complaining here, and the vast majority of players thinks different. Why else would 50 gold still be a standard price for unique items? You can buy a small unit from that.

I haven't seen a sell offer in probably two months, across 4 characters on 4 islands. I know they are unique, but that's one problem.

Also, I usually pay 20-25 gold.

And finally, yes, repairs are a pain, as is checking on the item--I usually forget to check until it's too late. Perhaps a daily report when items hit 20%, "your Frying Pan of Doom +3 is too damaged to be of use to you, you need to get it repaired immediately."

Anaris

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #139: March 02, 2012, 01:38:06 PM »

And finally, yes, repairs are a pain, as is checking on the item--I usually forget to check until it's too late. Perhaps a daily report when items hit 20%, "your Frying Pan of Doom +3 is too damaged to be of use to you, you need to get it repaired immediately."

This way you can make sure to repair it while it still has some utensile strength.
Timothy Collett

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egamma

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #140: March 02, 2012, 02:15:28 PM »
This way you can make sure to repair it while it still has some utensile strength.

Yes, exactly. I think part of this being a 'lightweight' game is to make it easier for players to know what they need to pay attention to. We provide a daily report on unit morale and damage changes, unique items should be included.

And I find it very annoying that just carrying around a sword can cause it massive damage. Perhaps battle damage should be increased and regular decay reduced by a lot? My advy (in the colonies, which doesn't help) had items go from 20% to 0%, trying to find a sage and the proper materials.

Tom

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #141: March 02, 2012, 02:54:26 PM »
that are the vast majority of players just don't answer on the forums, Tom. I'm going to ask that all the players in my realms go to the forums and say what they think about Unique Items. We'll see just what the answer is then.

That's ballot stuffing and suffers from selection bias.

Tom

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #142: March 02, 2012, 03:05:30 PM »
The idea of having a few legendary items is interesting. But neither a fixed limit nor total item immortality will work. As has been said: That is exactly what the system is designed to prevent: Hoarding.

However, I have updated the code so that some items (big random factor) will over time become more resilient. Give it time, several months at least, and you will start to see a low number of legendary items that last for longer before they need repairs, but won't last forever.


vonGenf

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #143: March 02, 2012, 03:17:12 PM »
The idea of having a few legendary items is interesting. But neither a fixed limit nor total item immortality will work. As has been said: That is exactly what the system is designed to prevent: Hoarding.

However, I have updated the code so that some items (big random factor) will over time become more resilient. Give it time, several months at least, and you will start to see a low number of legendary items that last for longer before they need repairs, but won't last forever.

Great! :D
After all it's a roleplaying game.

dustole

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #144: March 02, 2012, 05:37:43 PM »
I maintain my position that there is a vocal minority complaining here, and the vast majority of players thinks different. Why else would 50 gold still be a standard price for unique items? You can buy a small unit from that.


50 gold is really a small amount.  The average income for nobles on Atamara is 800 gold.  The lowest, FEI, is 240 gold.  When you think about it like that, 50 gold isn't much at all.  If an item were truly unique and useful it would be selling for a LOT more than 50 gold.  I understand that you want the unique items to be a low key aspect of the game.  Without an Advy who specializes in repairing items it is extremely difficult to keep an item for a long period of time.   There used to be an Advy on Dwilight who was AMAZING at repairing and finding unique items.  I had a farming system set up for unique items.  I would buy them and have others carry them into battle.  The advy was executed and I haven't been able to find an advy since then who will repair items.  Most have said that they won't because it is too difficult.   Since then I have treated unique items as temporary vanity titles.  I get my name associated with an item for a month or two until it falls apart.  I created an advy on Dwilight simply so I can try and understand their side of the unique item trade.  So far I haven't even found a sage. 
Kabrinski Family:  Nathaniel (EC), Franklin (BT), Aletha(DWI)

egamma

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #145: March 02, 2012, 07:31:16 PM »
That's ballot stuffing and suffers from selection bias.

So, we forum users are too small a group to take seriously, and if we ask more people to comment, that's also invalid?

Perhaps you could do another survey, or a gold message to ask people to fill out a forum poll if the web surveys cost money.

BardicNerd

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #146: March 02, 2012, 07:37:23 PM »
I maintain my position that there is a vocal minority complaining here, and the vast majority of players thinks different. Why else would 50 gold still be a standard price for unique items? You can buy a small unit from that.

50 gold may be a decent sum for a lowly knight, but for a duke or other person with high income, that's pocket change.  If I was an adventurer looking to sell an item, I'd probably be offering it to the rich people in the realm, and trust me, unless the realm is doing poorly in a realm, they're not going to care much about a mere 50 gold.

egamma

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #147: March 02, 2012, 10:03:33 PM »
50 gold may be a decent sum for a lowly knight, but for a duke or other person with high income, that's pocket change.  If I was an adventurer looking to sell an item, I'd probably be offering it to the rich people in the realm, and trust me, unless the realm is doing poorly in a realm, they're not going to care much about a mere 50 gold.

50 gold is more than 2 of my lord characters are making, combined. One of those is a newly TO'd region, to be sure, but the other is a rural with a single knight and control issues (large realm penalties are limiting my tax rate to 7%) (FEI)

Of course, my other lord made almost 400 gold (DWI), and my knight makes 116 gold (AT).

BardicNerd

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #148: March 03, 2012, 02:00:13 AM »
50 gold is more than 2 of my lord characters are making, combined. One of those is a newly TO'd region, to be sure, but the other is a rural with a single knight and control issues (large realm penalties are limiting my tax rate to 7%) (FEI)

Of course, my other lord made almost 400 gold (DWI), and my knight makes 116 gold (AT).

I think a region running at 7% tax probably qualifies as an exception.  And yeah, rural lords don't always have great income, but they're probably not getting the bulk of the item offers, either (though I could be mistaken).

Duvaille

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Re: Idea: Plate Mail
« Reply #149: March 04, 2012, 06:59:12 AM »
The idea of having a few legendary items is interesting. But neither a fixed limit nor total item immortality will work. As has been said: That is exactly what the system is designed to prevent: Hoarding.

However, I have updated the code so that some items (big random factor) will over time become more resilient. Give it time, several months at least, and you will start to see a low number of legendary items that last for longer before they need repairs, but won't last forever.

As I see it, the game consists of two layers. The foundation and somewhat fixed layer includes the maps and the game mechanics. This layer creates the boundaries for the stories that we the players create for ourselves and the other players. On top of this foundation is the somewhat fluid layer of meaning that consists of player characters, realms, guilds, religions and unique items. The stories we create center around those aspects of the layer that are the most durable. The most important stories are about the most durable element, which is the characters we play, but there are beautiful stories created about the realms and religions as well, and to some degree the guilds too.

A good deal of these stories center around the struggle of growing influence and sometimes it becomes a struggle for the very existence of something that is dear to the player. Some characters grow stronger in power while others lose reputation and diminish. Diminish enough and end up executed. Realms battle for influence and territory. Old realms diminish and get destroyed, and new ones founded. Guilds, religions and associations expand and battle for influence. The weak ones diminish and vanish. The story keeps evolving and never stagnates. When enough players decide that something in the game is worth keeping around, it will be kept around if they display sufficient skill and determination. When an object in the game is not supported by enough determined and skillfull players, it will inevitably eventually vanish. And that happens when an element in the game is no longer interesting enough and ceases to be something about which meaningful stories are created.

That is the beauty of it all, and i absolutely LOVE the design behind it and appreciate it very much. This is what sets Battlemaster apart from everything else I have ever encountered in the web. The only thing we lack here is lifting the unique items to the same layer with the rest of the elements. Right now they are interesting and fun trinkets, but what I would ask for them is this:

When enough players with sufficient determination and skill find an item interesting and worthwhile enough, they could, if they so chose, keep the said object alive indefinitely so that they could keep building more stories around it and the item would grow in its significance in the minds of the players. The item would be truly legendary, not due to some random stat it happens to have, but by its true reputation as an emblem and symbol of what it has come to represent.

Sure, make it hard, make it cost time and gold, make it cost a war to regain it, make it cost the life of my character, but make it possible to keep it in, and you see amazing stories centered around something that was meant to be a minor curiosity in the game. And you will see conflicts between characters, realms and religions never seen before.