Way harder then this ought to be

[Foundation]

Okay, this thread is going in circles.  The original problem has been solved.

If you think this process is too complex, please collect what we established in this thread and put it in a wiki page.

[Tom]

A step by step guide on the wiki to forming new duchies might be helpful. Along with that there should be a link next to "create a new duchy" warning that the process is somewhat complicated

It's likely that other rulers will have trouble with the current system as it's somewhat counter intuitive. It's easier to form a single duchy and then split it then it is to settle a new city as its own duchy which is not what you'd expect.

Uh, what?

I fail to see where the process is the least bit complicated. You click the link, you select a region to form a new duchy, you click submit. How could it possibly be any easier?

[Tom]

Requirement to be lord: be elected lord, even if you have an estate in another region. OR, if appointed, the region lord must not have an estate in a different region.
Requirement to be duke: be a lord of a region in the duchy, or not have an estate. Granted automatically to lords of cities, thanks to old code.

Elections are not yet updated to recognize the new system, they will soon be in line.

Dukeship is NOT automatically granted to lords of cities. That was a ONE TIME THING for the transition only. Basically, old dukes remained dukes, we just split their titles. No need to even mention that on the wiki, as it has no consequences for the future.

So if you remove these two artifacts, it is all really simple.

[Tom]

Well, the behavior we saw in D'Hara is that the old code will automatically create a new duchy a turn or two after a city is TOed.

When was that? It shouldn't with the new system.

[Tom]

Ok, I've more or less gotten the system to work and I stand by that it's more complicated then it ought to be. Now that I've split the duchies all of the regions are now part of what was supposed to be the new duchy, meaning for continuity's sake they now all have to change allegiance back to the duchy they're supposed to be a part of.

It isn't complicated. You are simply trying to do several things all at once, which is what makes it complicated. But it's not that creating a duchy is complicated - it is really simple.

But what you wanted was not create a new duchy. You wanted to switch around some lordships, some dukeships AND create a new duchy.

[vonGenf]

Maybe the instructions would be clearer if they never mentioned creating a duchy. You never really create a duchy: you create a Duke, and the people who have sworn an oath to the Duke form his duchy.

[fodder]

When was that? It shouldn't with the new system.

http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6354

probably need some never evidence... which was why it would be useful to know what happened to darfix/gaston (all on its own that is)

[Indirik]

You never really create a duchy: you create a Duke, and the people who have sworn an oath to the Duke form his duchy.

That is not correct at all. You create both a duke and a duchy at the same time. Even if no one else *ever* joins it, you still have a duke and a duchy, albeit comprised only of the duke's region.

[egamma]

When was that? It shouldn't with the new system.

It happened after the new code went in, for both Qubel Lighthouse and Sallowtown.

[Indirik]

How long ago? The day after the new estates want live? Yesterday?

[fodder]

eh... read the bug entry linked above.

[vonGenf]

That is not correct at all. You create both a duke and a duchy at the same time. Even if no one else *ever* joins it, you still have a duke and a duchy, albeit comprised only of the duke's region.

Actually I forgot that you can still appoint someone to an existing duchy when the old duke steps down/disappear (I think? I'm still a bit confused). Therefore you are right, duchies do have a separate existence.

[Indirik]

When was Sallowtown taken? The bug report entry does not say. Qubel Lighthouse is way too old to be of any concern, and is now irrelevant.

[fodder]

a few days just before x'mas from the forum entry linked in the bug entry which was after the estate update? (but well before the new TO)

has anyone TO'ed a city and then just leave it for a few days waiting for elections since (to see if anything gets autocreated)?

[Indirik]

Astrum is about to go after Chrysantalys. I am not planning turning it into a duchy. Will probably be at least two weeks before we take it, though.