Fontan vs Westmoor III: third times a charm

[Iltaran]

Laaaadies and Geeeentlemen.

The East Continent of Battlemaster is pleased to present a new middleweight war for your viewing pleasure! Battles will be fought! Insults will be thrown! Propaganda will be sprouted! In the blue corner, we have Westmoor, masters of the art of losing without pain and three time winners of the annual "worst military" award. And in the yellow corner, we have Fontan, one time powerhouse now reduced to a shadow of their former might.

These realms have met twice before, although neither time have they gone the distance. The first fight ended with Fontan withdrawing in order to focus on their title bout with Sirion, while the second was called off midway through by the match referee, Sirion. On the line is power, wealth and the heady prospect of slightly less sniggering from the rest of the world!

And remember, its never too late to place your bets.

[Indirik]

Yay! A war where no matter who loses, I'm happy. And no matter who wins, it's a shame.

[Ketchum]

Here's Fontan perspective of the latest war.

Westmoor playing themselves as victim in the war, to try gain sympathy. I wont be surprised if Perdan or Caligus join Westmoor side against Fontan. Funny though they are the one who first broken the Cease Fire. I bet Gregor, the lone Westmoor noble who travel on Fontan lands recently, he got a big hell of a fright seeing Fontanese army  ;D

[Velax]

Perdan won't join unless another realm gets involved on Fontan's side. Or if CoI takes root in Fontan, as it appears to be doing.

[Zakilevo]

Sirion will stay out as long as her allies stay out of it. Some talk going on between Nivemus, OI, and Caligus at the moment. It will be intersting.

[Sacha]

I hope they both lose :)

[Telrunya]

Aww, you meanies. I'll cheer you on, Fontan :)

[Turner]

Here's Fontan perspective of the latest war.

Westmoor playing themselves as victim in the war, to try gain sympathy. I wont be surprised if Perdan or Caligus join Westmoor side against Fontan. Funny though they are the one who first broken the Cease Fire. I bet Gregor, the lone Westmoor noble who travel on Fontan lands recently, he got a big hell of a fright seeing Fontanese army  ;D

Westmoor doesnt need to gain sympathy. Fontan never desired peace. Fontan used the ceasefire as an excuse to bide their time and build up their forces so they could attack Westmoor unawares. Westmoor simply beat Fontan to the punch as it were. Fontans refusal to accept any form of peace with Westmoor is well known.

[Zakilevo]

Westmoor declared war on Fontan not the other way around.

[De-Legro]

Westmoor doesnt need to gain sympathy. Fontan never desired peace. Fontan used the ceasefire as an excuse to bide their time and build up their forces so they could attack Westmoor unawares. Westmoor simply beat Fontan to the punch as it were. Fontans refusal to accept any form of peace with Westmoor is well known.

That is stupid, its BM it is IMPOSSIBLE to build up forces over time with the whole damn continent being aware of it. That combined with a ceasefire that never progresses any further pretty much means Fontan was never really hoping to catch any one unawares, they were just waiting till they though they had the advantage in either military terms, diplomatic terms or both.

[Chaotrance13]

Westmoor declared war on Fontan not the other way around.

And your posts on here do not match the !@#$ you're sending IC.

Forums: "Oh, we'll stay out of it as long as our allies do."
In-game: "SMASH WESTMOOR IF THEY GET NEAR OUR BORDERS!!!!11!!"

You are looking for any avenue to declare war, frankly. And I do not just say that because I can, I'm recalling past incidents where basically one thing has been said, and the opposite done. The two cases in point I recall are Fontanese infiltrators attacking Westmoorian nobles (one of whom was Malos at the time). What did Fontan say? "We'll punish them, that was not sanctioned by us." What was the actual outcome? Nothing. In fact I strongly suspect it was the opposite, a lot of back-slapping and hearty laughter.

Then there was that incident regarding those two Sirionite cavalry units which entered Westmoorian territory and attacked three of our nobles - Ravier included? Then proceeded to throw taunts around which were borderline as far as IC/OOC goes. Same story - "Not sanctioned, we'll punish". What is the reality? I suspect it goes along the lines of "Good job boys, come and be merry and laugh at those Westmoorian fools".

In other words, there's a whole lot of double-talk. Which is why as Ravier, I do not believe a word when you came to Westmoor City to preach about peace and ties. Talk is cheap, after all, and now the proof is coming out. I also would call into question why a retired General has been called back to active service. It may be nothing more than the fact there were no suitable candidates. Or it could be a prelude to something bigger.

Problem is, we won't know until it's too late, most likely. And at the moment, it's all hypotheticals and rhetoric, but I reckon we'll see Sirion getting involved before long.

[Indirik]

Westmoor and Perdan do have unfinished business. I wouldn't be too surprised to see Perdan help Fontan.

[Draco Tanos]

Perdan has already offered Westmoor support if any others involve themselves against us.  Westmoor under myself and Maedros have frequently assisted Perdan and warmed relations.  Any issues they had were with Flaylen and probably Arica.  One is inactive/left the game and the other is in Caligus.  Westmoor is the ever loyal friend, child of Mother Perdan and Caligus.  That is Jor's belief and my OOC stance as well. 

DeLegro, how do you assume it is impossible?  There are gradual increases over time that can very likely be overlooked or with the 2 week stats lag, can mass recruit in a short amount of time.  Both options, combined with their diplomatic efforts ("Nivemus, they gonna attack youuuuuuuuu!!!!"), fit what has been viewed from Fontan.

[De-Legro]

Perdan has already offered Westmoor support if any others involve themselves against us.

DeLegro, how do you assume it is impossible?  There are gradual increases over time that can very likely be overlooked or with the 2 week stats lag, can mass recruit in a short amount of time.  Both options, combined with their diplomatic efforts ("Nivemus, they gonna attack youuuuuuuuu!!!!"), fit what has been viewed from Fontan.

What did I say, did I say a SUDDEN build up, pretty sure I mentioned a build up over time. Also stats only have a 7 day lag. You can attack someone unawares by leading them to think you have a solid diplomatic relationship that you then betray. You can't build up a force over time against a realm that knows you despise them without them thinking something is amiss, unless they are all incompetent. Gradual increases do nothing here, it should be obvious to almost any decent military player when a realm is running a CS high enough that it is for more then just homeland defense. The question is then, what is that CS for. In order to really catch someone unawares then they need a plausible reason to 100% trust they aren't the target. Westmoor never had that as proven by their declaration. If that was Fontans intent, they basically completely ruined its chances of success by not making a better effort to secure a fake peace. Of course had they done that it might have had wider diplomatic implications if they later tired to breach it.

So to reiterate. It is impossible to build up forces over time without the continent knowing about it. You can try to hide it by doing so very slowly, but total CS is the realm give away anyway. You can mass recruit within the seven day lag, which is why I stated impossible to build up over time. Given the fact that the whole continent can know you are basically on a war footing it is reasonable to assume that if you have clear and prolonged diplomatic issues with a realm, it would be wishful thinking to assume they won't notice your build up and make their own preparations.

[Zakilevo]

And your posts on here do not match the !@#$ you're sending IC.

Forums: "Oh, we'll stay out of it as long as our allies do."
In-game: "SMASH WESTMOOR IF THEY GET NEAR OUR BORDERS!!!!11!!"

You are looking for any avenue to declare war, frankly. And I do not just say that because I can, I'm recalling past incidents where basically one thing has been said, and the opposite done. The two cases in point I recall are Fontanese infiltrators attacking Westmoorian nobles (one of whom was Malos at the time). What did Fontan say? "We'll punish them, that was not sanctioned by us." What was the actual outcome? Nothing. In fact I strongly suspect it was the opposite, a lot of back-slapping and hearty laughter.

Then there was that incident regarding those two Sirionite cavalry units which entered Westmoorian territory and attacked three of our nobles - Ravier included? Then proceeded to throw taunts around which were borderline as far as IC/OOC goes. Same story - "Not sanctioned, we'll punish". What is the reality? I suspect it goes along the lines of "Good job boys, come and be merry and laugh at those Westmoorian fools".

In other words, there's a whole lot of double-talk. Which is why as Ravier, I do not believe a word when you came to Westmoor City to preach about peace and ties. Talk is cheap, after all, and now the proof is coming out. I also would call into question why a retired General has been called back to active service. It may be nothing more than the fact there were no suitable candidates. Or it could be a prelude to something bigger.

Problem is, we won't know until it's too late, most likely. And at the moment, it's all hypotheticals and rhetoric, but I reckon we'll see Sirion getting involved before long.

I am surprised. You are on the spot. We did not have suitable candidates sadly. One without any military experience and the other with a very aggressive attitude toward anything. If Cimion did not lose his password and his email at the same time, I would still be preaching about peace and love.