Food

[Uzamaki]

PvE? I don't see how giving more reasons to destabilize these empires and solidified nations to open them up to war, betrayal, and intrigue is PvE - the whole point is to make PvP more viable by introducing chaos that forces them off their gilded thrones and fat asses to actually fight from what little they have. All these super-rich and well-connected nations sitting on monopolies and power-blocs isn't entertaining - the constant chaos when members of power-blocs fight amongst themselves and everyone goes for each other's throats, now that is!

Spoken by a person who truly has never witnessed the magnificence of when the fat lazy ass empires start fighting and create a continent wide conflict! The Great War on the East Island, as well as the War Islands which have now sunk, are the most fun I have ever had on Battlemaster!

[Indirik]

lol Indirik, the IG roleplay for the drought has only intensified Bloodmoon consumption since the dried nut acts both as food and drug...

And judging by the scout reports and population stats graphs, that's really working out pretty well for you, isn't it? ::)

[Indirik]

PvE? I don't see how giving more reasons to destabilize these empires and solidified nations to open them up to war, betrayal, and intrigue is PvE - the whole point is to make PvP more viable by introducing chaos that forces them off their gilded thrones and fat asses to actually fight from what little they have. All these super-rich and well-connected nations sitting on monopolies and power-blocs isn't entertaining - the constant chaos when members of power-blocs fight amongst themselves and everyone goes for each other's throats, now that is!

Yeah, see... that doesn't work. Increasing the PvE element only makes the big guys hunker down and cover their heads, while the small realms die. Things in BattleMaster just don't happen the way you think they do. If you try to introduce more artificial PvE elements to *force* conflict, you're going to have a LOT of pissed off players accusing you of ruining the game, sabotaging their realms, and pretty much destroying years and years of established RP/history/etc. "constant chaos" isn't fun. Constant conflict is fun. But not chaos. You need structure and order around which to work, otherwise you have... nothing.

[Ehndras]

*shrug* Just expressing an idea. Your argument is obvious and established, and I was already aware of it as that is simply how the game runs now.

I'm simply using the complaints I've seen to formulate one of an endless stream of possible ideas one might use to make the game more interesting. Compared to the games of this style and mechanics that I've played, and there have been hundreds, BM is too slow to be a fast-paced chaos-war and too fast** to be a game of heavy long-term RP. Its stuck somewhere in the middle between the long-term method of sandbox/player-made MUD worlds and the faster-paced constantly-changing strategy-war games.

I'd just like to see wars for better reasons, because most of the wars I've seen off of Dwilight are downright retarded in their execution and command. I see a heavy lack of depth at the hands of players who don't know how to properly roleplay or interact, which is why I think forcing a few peoples' hands in a manner not unlike BT does is quite interesting. The BEST conflict, RP, and teamwork I've seen in this game was most definitely in BT during the Blight. BY. FAR.

At the same time, I like the relatively steady progression of Dwilight. The Far East I don't have an opinion on because Kindara was a flaming pile of boring when I played my first character there, and I'm now in Arcaea which is very militarily-minded but seems to lack a bit of that RP spirit and 'meat' that really gives further depth to it all - I'm too new to Arcaea to offer a proper opinion anyway. Another place I loved was Hammerfall (if Im not mistaken on the name), which was a ton of RP-laden and united fun until we were raped by various nations, our command structure went afk/inactive/captured/dead, and it became a long stream of 'your region is rebelling!' messages while myself and the other warriors screamed out for orders yet received perhaps one message with a vague muttering saying they'll figure something out every time, and nothing.

I think I'm going to come to love Arcaea, I really like BT though some people make me question if a lack of common sense has gone viral, and Dwilight is just bat!@#$ crazy.

I love this game :-P I just think shaking it up a bit would be interesting. Also, !@#$ happens. Half of BT just sunk into the damn ocean, I haven't heard a single complaint. Why? Because it makes things interesting. I'll quit the day I become the supreme ruler of a powerful and unchallenged nation. How boring. I like being the underdog, I like raising empires and banding together with other fighters while plotting against the big power-holders. I've led massive groups in strategy-war games time and time again but with all the certainty I can muster I adamantly declare that the most entertainment I've EVER had was when the game decided to !@#$ me over and thus make things unexpected, interesting, and shatter my plans and expectations in the process. Nothing beats that exhilarating feel of the unexpected barreling toward you, the clench of your muscles as you prepare for the world, the adrenaline leaking out as you realize your very existence is in danger. Don't get me wrong, I loved my multi-server Tribal Wars group I founded and personally led that had over 1,000 members, (O.R.E. and T.H.C. Alliances FTW! The fact that The Holy Crusade got so many potheads, medieval roleplayers, and fundamentalist/hardcore Christian players together under one roof is HILARIOUS and so much better than I could ever had expected. I brought together the two most opposite groups possible and made them fight a common enemy, and loved every moment of it! MAN, those were good times!)

I've seen so much insanity in these types of games and as wonderfully necessary as structure and order is, someones you need to put boot to ass to get everyone going ;-)

Right now the fun is happening in Dwilight because of the Lurias, Aurvandil, and others being ambitious, and the backlash occurring in reaction to their aggressions. This is FUN. Maybe not for the nations getting roflstomped because some might be sore losers, but win-or-lose its a very entertaining this to roleplay through. In FE there's a lot going on and I'm just trying to wrap my head around it all. I'm glad someone tried to assassinate a monarch because it brought this much-appreciated war that really helped me solidify Vvaros' personality and get some RP going, I now actually have a background for my FE assassin and death-worshiper. <3 In Bellua I'm having a lot of fun opposing a player I like very much, Coldchest, because his narcissistic noble Robb is a bastard. Am I angry? Not really. Am I annoyed? Hell yeah. Is his craziness making the RP more entertaining? You bet your ass! On impulse I'd say I hate narcissistic characters because I despise people like that in real life, having dealt with two my entire life. In the game though, I've learned to appreciate the... Strange "charm"... Some of these characters bring to the table.

I've also learned to be friendly in OOC yet plan all sorts of conflict and intrigue IC when I identify a breaking point or any sort of potential issue my characters might have with others. Some I'll bring together in alliance while with others I will poke and prod our differences to get rivalries here and there. Sure, its biting my own tongue or shooting my own foot, what have you, but the purpose of this isn't to quickly and easily become the most influential noble - for that I'll go back to Travian, Tribal Wars, Anarchy Unlimited, Solarfleet, AstroEmpires, and other games where I've led top-ranking alliances and empires. Here in BM, I don't want to win - I want to have FUN.

So, I'm sorry to say, but bring it on ;-) Starve me, imprison me, betray me, plot against me, usurp me, double-deal me, because it all just means I'll have to come back with a vengeance ;-D

[Gustav Kuriga]

*snip*

So basically you're saying everyone must play your way in order for it to be "correct" RP...

[Zakilevo]

Some people prefer PvE and some PvP. I think PvE should just stay in BT.

[Bael]

Some people prefer PvE and some PvP. I think PvE should just stay in BT.

It no longer exists on BT, afaik.

[Ehndras]

Wow. You totally ignored the entire point of that.

I said I personally welcome chaos in gaming because it dislodges power-players from their mighty thrones, while giving the smaller folks the chance to gain power and take command of their own destinies. Power-bloc wars are just supreme rulers throwing men at each other, while a more fractured world ensures multi-border wars, all sorts of betrayal and fun, and a ton of craziness.

My method is my method alone. I'm simply saying that I've personally seen and stand by the opinion that introducing a bit of selective or random chaos to a system of order is healthy and necessary for the system's progression and sanity. :-) The game would be a lot more boring without SA and the other religions vying for power, or food giving power, wealth, or starvation to those who have or don't have it, the various classes, and so forth.

I don't think the game is perfect - fact from it. There are a thousand possibilities to improve the game but ALL of them mean destabilizing the current Order... That's just how it works. Anything new or different will inevitably changes things, besides OOC changes like the Fame counter.

I'm just saying - I welcome Change :-) As much as I enjoy the structure and order of reading a book or writing my novel series, a slower and calmer thing, I also adore the fast-paced insanity of sports, sex, mountain biking, snow boarding, and dancing. They each have their beauty and both are necessary to a healthy and happy life.

We can't have constant chaos and we can't have constant Order either ;-)

There I go all off topic again. Man, I'm seriously out of it today, everything seems hazy and my thoughts are all over the place.

<_< I think I need a shower, lunch, and a nap.

[Ehndras]

And yes, you're correct - there is no more PvE on BT what with the blight being done.

Also, PvE? So strange... I've never heard PvE used in this context before. I see absolutely nothing in this game that counts as PvE besides the Blight and fighting Monsters/Undead.

[Glaumring the Fox]

To Indirik: it doesnt matter if it works or not, our superstitious nobles think it will help to eat Bloodmoon. I am designing the lore of bloodmoon to have both power and foible. Unlike Astroism I want my religion to shatter and break and twist into new incarnations.

[Indirik]

@Ehndras: all that change, betrayal, backstabbing, etc is great. I'm all for it. But it should be caused by the players, not the RNG. The PvE comment comes in when you start talking about things like natural disasters, random starvation destroying realms, etc. (The current starvation on Dwilight is a combination of effects, and definitely not intentional or expected.) We need to provide more ways and reasons for the players to cause that conflict, and not try to force it via the RNG.

[mikm]

Chaos can be caused from within a realm and it's not too hard to do that.

[Ehndras]

The problem is most are content to not cause said chaos because of the detrimental effects to their own person. Everyone wants their enemies to suffer but none want themselves to suffer as well -_-

[Indirik]

The problem is most are content to not cause said chaos because of the detrimental effects to their own person. Everyone wants their enemies to suffer but none want themselves to suffer as well -_-

So... you're saying that most people don't want chaos. But you want us to cause chaos and force it on them. So you want the game to become something that most of the players don't want.  ??? That doesn't sound like a very winning scenario.

[Uzamaki]

So... you're saying that most people don't want chaos. But you want us to cause chaos and force it on them. So you want the game to become something that most of the players don't want.  ??? That doesn't sound like a very winning scenario.

This.

Ehndras, I agree that sometimes some realms need a little kick. That's why Tom bolted every single ruler in the EC one time to get them to start creating war. In many ways, that is what caused the Great War on the EC, which lead to the death of Old Rancagua, Sultanate of Asena, Light of Fontan, and, in some ways, Itorunt and Ibladesh. It also created Westmoor, Nivemus, Armonia, and Eponllyn.

However, that was just one chaotic kick(a bolt). Not constantly living in chaos. Lots of things can cause that kick. it could be an infiltrator attacking a ruler(as you mentioned), or a region dispute, or a religious argument, or even just plain greed! I would rather have an ordered game peppered with chaos then a chaotic game peppered with order. And I think most people would too. The thing is, is Battlemaster goes through cycles of war and preparing for war, which some call peace. Most of our continents are either preparing for war, or just starting to war(or, in the case of Atamara, locked into the most boring, stalemate war of all time). So, we must grin and bear it. But trust me. The continent wide conflicts will come.