Help me choose continent(s) to join [veteran thinking about returning to BM]

[Lorgan]

1. Beluaterra.
2. Dwilight.
3. Irrelevant.

[Indirik]

Astroist Temple, Lord, Duke, Banker, General, Judge or King, then.

Wrong again!

[Cren]

SA has majority within GDoF only in Fissoa city.

[JPierreD]

SA has majority within GDoF only in Fissoa city.

Wow, sad times!

[Cren]

Wow, sad times!

AP rocks in GDoF. 8-)

[Ehndras]

A noble & Adventurer on Dwilight guarantees a ton of fun. Of all the continents I play (I've tried them all), Dwilight is by FAR my favorite. SA seriously pisses me off but to be honest, that makes the RP more interesting. Belluaterra is QUICKLY becoming my second-favorite although its annoying to have everything all burned down and destroyed by daimonhordes :-P About to start a dissenting poly-panentheistic religion of the neo-pagan variety in Bellua for a bit of intrigue as soon as this Blight is over. Tempting to make my future-priest a Hero just so I can tell epic stories as an aging Warrior-priest in the future. :-P

If you're up for it, I'd love a good Knight in my realm in Terran, plus you have a good chance of becoming a Lord. :-) Very nice and understanding folks, very supportive and respectful, plenty of room for growth and ascension based on your effort, skill, and RP, RPs happen when they may (often at my hands these days :P Lord Perth, I won't forgive you for beating me in that duel :-| I will have revenge!), and the overall mood is very very pleasant despite wars going this way and that, political intrigue that never ends, religious friction due to SA to the north and the anti-religious whats-their-name to the south, and so much more.

I was originally bent on joining Astrom when I started playing with 6-7 friends. One went to Astrom, one went to Morek, one or two went to Summerdale, one went to Aurvandil, and I forget the rest. Every one of them hated their nations, except for the three who later joined Terran, rofl. Not that there's anything wrong with those nations, I just think the internal politics didn't go well with their playing styles. (This particular group are intensive, experienced roleplayers from my old RP website, half of them GM/DMs, and their previous RP with me were as dissenting religious fanatics from the long-lost Cult of Draolus in Hazordhu II - With the help of one of the games admins who gave the green-light to most of my unorthodox but highly-rewarding RP ideas that always brought in new players. Oh, how we enjoyed shackling up folks who'd come near our fortress, torturing them for information, and then have a courier bring back the severed head to their leaders, bahaha... Great RP moments, man, some of my favorite.)

Put simply, Summerdale got roflstomped by a Morek-Libero slaughter, Astrom twiddled their thumbs and watched Summerdale burn because of previous engagements, Aurvandil is raping and pillaging as usual, Barca just got nailed by Aurvandil, Asylon's in-and-out of war with Kabrinskia, and Terran is bobbing in the middle of an ocean of chaos along with their allies - an island of ever-changing borders and shifting politics on account of our dead-center position between multiple opposing factions. I think I picked very well when I decided to choose the one friggin' non-theocracy I could find at the time :-P I was actually IN SA for a while, but left because I didn't agree with some serious issues going on internally - its not my style to discuss the secrets of others even if I think they're totally out of line.

Regardless of your decision and our pushing for either nation, I know you'll have a guaranteed blast joining Dwilight. :-)

[Indirik]

SA seriously pisses me off but to be honest, that makes the RP more interesting.

I would be rather interested to hear why.

[Ehndras]

I generally would rather not discuss it.

If I MUST, it comes down to an IC and OOC reason.

IC, I dislike the blatant corruption and politicking that goes on under the guise of SA. A lot of what I'd see in the SA conversations weren't even IC-RP like is normal for a religious group. Its all fine and dandy to RP a bunch of corrupt priests wanting to hoard power for the blood-gods but all I really saw were a bunch of chaps ignoring the religious aspect and using the religious chat vessel to talk sh*t behind other's backs and power-play. So much power-play. That already peeves me because I believe in RPing, hence why I'm on Dwilight. If it was another continent then fine, but even our half-assed religions in other continents get RP'd at least a little bit. There are some players who at least make a vague mention of SA in a religious scope, but most I've seen just completely ignore it and go straight for the political aspect. I find this to be in bad taste both as an abuse of the religious system as well as a fallacy on a roleplayer's part - it is your duty to maintain faithfulness to your religion and if you're in it just for the political connections then what the hell? Just make a guild like the 'Moot.

Maybe the brief time I was in the SA I just happened to come across 30 or 40 of the most politically-inclined postings and nothing else. Maybe its just a coincidence that the near-DEAD religion I worship, Triunism, in the two posts that have ever been made in it, were massively more religious and RP than everything I've heard of SA here on Dwilight. Maybe its just that the most SA-related thing I've heard was Vellos randomly forgetting I'm not in SA and asking me if I'd take some gold to increase the size of Vassar's temple - which I guffawed at because Vassar is a 100% Triune nation led by myself, a Triune-worshipping Lord. Oh boy did those scribes of his get a beating I'd imagine. :-P if it wasn't so hilarious I'd have had a fun opportunity to be seriously pissed-off IC for some epic religious-schism RP.

Anyway, back on topic. The most quasi-religious display I've seen IC was Glaumring's nude-dance to the gods of war, the closest thing I've seen to IC SA activity was Vellos' epic mistake, I saw nothing as a member of SA that I'd reciprocate or emulate in my own IC religion, and I disagree with SA's general methods. This has nothing to do with my actual opinion of SA as a religion, which will come next.

Now, for the OOC and my actual feelings on the subject. I find the SA to be a badly-written parody of medieval Catholicism beneath the guise of quasi-paganism, emulating all the things that are commonly despised about medieval Catholicism. The hypocrisy, the corruption, the lack of cohesiveness, the religious crusading for political-economic reasons, and a laughable adherence to religious values that are at best politically deviant and at worst morally destructive. I think its the political pull of SA that has forced its spread and ascension to the biggest religion of BM because the content of the religion itself isn't stressed at all. I'd understand if they RP'd a lot or took it seriously but at every turn I've seen little beside politicking. Perhaps its different on Dwilight or perhaps my vision is skewed due to my relatively recent arrival to BM, but if I am asked for an honest no-holds-barred opinion on SA at this point in time, my belief is this: SA is a political powerbase beneath the guise of religion and in no way seems to take its own beliefs seriously, often flying in the face of its own values for the purpose of economic or political gain - just because "Why the !@#$ not".

Anyway, its not my place to discuss other people's business. I am no longer a follower of SA on any of my characters and couldn't care less. I fully respect SA's right to exist, Terran's right to be partially-SA, and my friends of worshipping SA. I have nothing against what you'll read of SA in the wiki. What I dislike is the power-mongering the players behind SA so commonly engage in. What I dislike is the blatant disregard for your own laws and views as soon as they give you even a slight handicap. Is that not the point of IC religion, to provide incentive to RP, if not an entertaining crutch or handicap which you must roleplay around? I always thought the point of having religions in game at ALL was not for economic or political benefit, which guilds can fulfill just fine on their own, but for a chance for more intensive and entertaining RP than "Oh, let's have a duel?" or "I don't like the way your peasant-like nobles slice their mutton, 'tis a disgrace to proper etiquette! TO WAR! FOR THE MUTTON!"

Jeeze, I am one ranty, brutally-honest bastard today.

Please avoid asking me questions today unless you want the truth, all the truth, and nothing but the bloody F-U truth.

[Anaris]

The hypocrisy, the corruption, the lack of cohesiveness, the religious crusading for political-economic reasons, and a laughable adherence to religious values that are at best politically deviant and at worst morally destructive.

I...think that if you studied the history of SA, you'd find that the vast majority of that type of thing was in no way planned or intended. It's just the sort of thing that happens. Human nature at work.

[egamma]

I'm not in SA, but the players of Constantine and the Duke of Mimer have both made pretty good conversion attempts and/or religious discussions. I wish that the Verdis Elementum's priests would actually...you know...preach. You would think that sending letters, like the early Christians did (Letter to Corinthians, Letter to Ephesians, etc) would be part of the whole priest gig.

Of course, I never did when I was a priest, so maybe I expect to much.

[Indirik]

I generally would rather not discuss it.

If I MUST, it comes down to an IC and OOC reason.

Well, I didn't say you *had* to discuss it. I just asked a friendly question. But thank you for your response. You have touched on several things I have thought myself. Some of it is due to the nature of the game, the nature of the formation/expansion of the religion, and the laziness of players (myself included).

In the interest of not getting into a huge debate, I'd just like to say two things.

1) Religion is politics, and politics is religion. This is doubly true in BattleMaster. You cannot have a religion that is interested in expanding, and spreading their faith, without that same religion being involved in politics. The fact that many religions try to not get involved in politics is why you have so many inconsequential, failing religions with 10 or 12 nobles, two temples, and one priest. The founders/elders of SA are definitely believers in the faith. True, we don't talk theology constantly, but that doesn't mean that we are corrupt politicians only in it for the power. There are plenty of nobles in SA specifically for the power side of things. When you have several large theocracies that only hand out positions to members of the faith, what would you expect?

2) Discussions in SA tend to ramble, and swap rather quickly between several-month dry spells, and a few weeks of insanely furious debates. Some of these are theological in nature, most probably are not. You can't really stop the non-theological debates, and we don't really try unless they get very bad. Let's face it: Right now, SA provides the single largest audience in the game. There is no other place in the game where you can write one message, and get it sent to 160 other characters. (We used to have that in some realms, but not any more.) The multi-realm nature of the organization means that when someone wants to get their message heard far and wide, they come to the SA all-members channel. (Or the full-members channel if they want to be polite.) The fact that these realms sometimes also get involved in their own wars against each other means that they come to the common channel they have to debate things. And of course they get heated, and there's a lot of shouting. Meh... it has its good points and bad points.

Anyway, I'm not really looking to turn this into a big debate on the merits and evils of SA. I know it has some good sides and bad sides. But to me, that's what makes it fun. :) Sorry that your experiences in Summerdale soured you on SA (and Astrum :( ). Perhaps if you had been around before the war started, you'd have a little better understanding for how things really happened, and not be so bitter about it.

[Indirik]

Actually, I did have one other question:

...all I really saw were a bunch of chaps ignoring the religious aspect and using the religious chat vessel to talk sh*t behind other's backs and power-play. So much power-play.

What definition do you use for "power-play"? People use so many definitions for terms like this, I'd be interested in knowing what you mean by it.

[Cren]

Hmmm... Blood Stars. Wait! Thats some kind of cosmic horror, at least I consider that. Come join us at Path to Eternity and join the crusade against SA.

[JPierreD]

Hmmm... Blood Stars. Wait! Thats some kind of cosmic horror, at least I consider that. Come join us at Path to Eternity and join the crusade against SA.

Or join AP and stop fragmenting the non-SA side!

[Gustav Kuriga]

Please avoid asking me questions today unless you want the truth, all the truth, and nothing but the bloody F-U truth.

Well, biased versions of the truth, but everyone's biased, so can't avoid that.