Upward Slope for Newcomers to do stuff.

[Bedwyr]

Sounds like another thing that isn't properly explained and the player has to try figure out on their own.

I know this one as a player rather than a dev, so feel comfortable explaining that a number of things require you to be an oathed knight, rather than an unaligned noble, before they can happen.

[Geronus]

I'm not sure I would have connected the dots between that error message and not holding an oath.

[Bedwyr]

I'm not sure I would have connected the dots between that error message and not holding an oath.

If you don't have an oath, you are a Noble.  If you do have an oath, you are a Knight.  The game is quite literally telling you that your rank (Noble) is insufficient for what you are trying to do.

[fodder]

... of course.. there's no such thing as oath (though it's somewhat implied) nowadays.. which makes it a bit more tricky to explain things.

royal = ruler (ex-ruler/relative of some type)
duke = duke (ex-duke)
lord = lord (ex-lord)
knight = has estate and not any of above
noble = not any of above

gov members... eh... no separate ranks for that.. one of above.

rogue = eh......

peasants.. who cares

[JPierreD]

gov members... eh... no separate ranks for that.. one of above.

Indeed, Felicie is a Noble (due to the ranks not having been updated), even while being Banker.

[Shizzle]

Perhaps, but the amount of time it would take to reach it was long enough I did not feel the desire to do so. It's less combat, and more anything interesting.

Fair enough

[Tom]

Many of the restrictions in the game are the way they are because we have limited resources and while there are vast areas of the game that we would like to improve and rework, we simply can't do it all at once.

Prestige, honour and related subjects have been on the list for a long time.

[Geronus]

If you don't have an oath, you are a Noble.  If you do have an oath, you are a Knight.  The game is quite literally telling you that your rank (Noble) is insufficient for what you are trying to do.

Yes, I understand now that it has been pointed out to me. I'm just saying, I'm not sure that I would have connected those dots by myself (though to be fair, I also didn't have all the information, i.e. I did not know that the character in question was a noble, not a knight). After Anaris' last post I did spend a moment trying to figure out what he was talking about and ended up shrugging it off and walking away. If I'd been the one who originally made the observation/asked the question, his post would have frustrated the hell out of me if I still hadn't been able to figure it out.

Sometimes the obsession with secrecy in this game is a bit off-putting. If a message is supposed to make it plain what a problem is, then make it plain, and for the love of pete just explain what the problem is when someone asks on the forum rather than dancing around it and forcing them to try to figure it out themselves. If it were obvious to them, they wouldn't have had to ask, would they?

I know there are some things the Devs would not be allowed to reveal. But was this really one of them? I mean it's relatively trivial, but yet here Anaris does everything he can to try to explain it without actually explaining anything. Would he really have gotten in trouble if he'd just answered the question in a straight forward way?

[Anaris]

Sometimes the obsession with secrecy in this game is a bit off-putting. If a message is supposed to make it plain what a problem is, then make it plain, and for the love of pete just explain what the problem is when someone asks on the forum rather than dancing around it and forcing them to try to figure it out themselves. If it were obvious to them, they wouldn't have had to ask, would they?

This time it's not about secrecy one bit. It's about keeping the explanation IC. It's about not holding your hand and explaining every little thing to you in minute detail. It's about assuming that the people playing this game have functioning brains, and can tell "your rank is too low" from "you are not reputable enough."

I know there are some things the Devs would not be allowed to reveal. But was this really one of them? I mean it's relatively trivial, but yet here Anaris does everything he can to try to explain it without actually explaining anything. Would he really have gotten in trouble if he'd just answered the question in a straight forward way?

No, we're certainly allowed to reveal this. Like I said, it's not about secrecy. It's about the devs getting frustrated that the players appear to glance at the message briefly, assume it means something that it doesn't, and then jump to the conclusion that there must be a bug.

If this is the way even players as intelligent and well-versed in the game read invasion clues, then it's no bleeding wonder we've lost most of Beluaterra.

Because seriously, it says rank, right there in the message. Why would anyone looking at that message and actually reading what it says think it meant the problem was anything other than rank??

[Gustav Kuriga]

Well obviously someone did, Anaris. So get off your damn high horse and for one second remember that this thread is for newcomers. If people who have been in the game for a while are having trouble with it, then just imagine how those new are doing. Not to mention that you just called everyone who is having trouble with it stupid, which is just insulting.

[JPierreD]

(though to be fair, I also didn't have all the information, i.e. I did not know that the character in question was a noble, not a knight)

To be honest nor did I. Felicie has been signing as Great Chamberlain for some time, then as Dame of Avengmil for a little while and now as High Treasurer. I had no idea she was still considered an unaligned noble.

Because seriously, it says rank, right there in the message. Why would anyone looking at that message and actually reading what it says think it meant the problem was anything other than rank??

Because of the above mentioned. Also because of the top-down process of expecting the message to refer to H/P, and thus filling in the blanks automatically. It also helps that the message could be interpreted as about not being reputable, if not used to such BM-specific lexicon. I suppose I'll have to get used (in the way Region means something specific, and not a general area).

[Geronus]

This time it's not about secrecy one bit. It's about keeping the explanation IC. It's about not holding your hand and explaining every little thing to you in minute detail. It's about assuming that the people playing this game have functioning brains, and can tell "your rank is too low" from "you are not reputable enough."

No, we're certainly allowed to reveal this. Like I said, it's not about secrecy. It's about the devs getting frustrated that the players appear to glance at the message briefly, assume it means something that it doesn't, and then jump to the conclusion that there must be a bug.

If this is the way even players as intelligent and well-versed in the game read invasion clues, then it's no bleeding wonder we've lost most of Beluaterra.

Because seriously, it says rank, right there in the message. Why would anyone looking at that message and actually reading what it says think it meant the problem was anything other than rank??

Well Tim, I could be as insulting as you're being and say that the problem isn't so much stupid players as it is poor game design, but I have some tact. Also, I am understanding of the fact that there's lots of things you all probably want to do to make the game better and not enough time in which to do them. In fact, I am far more understanding of that fact than most people would be because I work for a software company and we are very much in the same boat. We have about a thousand things we want to do, but we have a lot of problems and only so many programmers to fix them. And we actually pay those guys - you all work on BM for free.

As to the topic at hand, It's obviously not as simple as you think it is, otherwise people wouldn't be asking the question. Evidently not everyone can be as smart as you are, but I don't recall having to get a minimum score on an IQ test when I joined the game. Either way, I'm not sure I enjoy the way you almost, but not quite, called me stupid just now. I'm sorry that you get frustrated. I've seen the kind of 'feedback' you get more often than not. I can understand why you would over time start to get a little jaded. However, I still find that to be a poor excuse for being insulting, and I don't think it's a good rationale for refusing to answer straight-forward questions either. If you don't feel like answering, then don't. Don't instead dance around the answer and make people feel stupid for asking in the first place.

[Tom]

To calm everyone down:

If you have an actual suggestion for better wording for in-game messages, please post it on the bugtracker. Those text changes are fairly easy to do, and if the dev team agrees that the wording is better, will usually be done somewhere inbetween when someone touches the relevant script anyways instead of being pushed to the end of the list.

[egamma]

To calm everyone down:

If you have an actual suggestion for better wording for in-game messages, please post it on the bugtracker. Those text changes are fairly easy to do, and if the dev team agrees that the wording is better, will usually be done somewhere inbetween when someone touches the relevant script anyways instead of being pushed to the end of the list.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Class
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Changing_Classes

I think everyone would like for the class requirements to be updated on the wiki, with a link from the changing class page to the wiki.

[Geronus]

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Class
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Changing_Classes

I think everyone would like for the class requirements to be updated on the wiki, with a link from the changing class page to the wiki.

Not a bad idea.