Emigration

[Velax]

Will peasants only emigrate from one region to another if the original region has at least half of its maximum population?

[Bael]

Actually, I've been tracking this closely, and it's some value over 65%--probably 70%.

I am pleased to confirm that the emigration threshold is in fact 75%, as was expected. My city just received its first immigrants, and the region that it received them from had 75% populution before the peasants moved.

To be exact: 4360 (+89 that moved) out of a maximum of 5900. This was yesterday.

Good thing I saw this topic, as I had actually stopped checking. Good timing!

[Velax]

Okay...the reason I asked is that on the Dark Isle (the large island north of the mainland) on FEI, every region aside from one has been severely depopulated due to war, starvation and a long period of being rogue. The city in particular is a ghost town with just 126 out of a possible 8000 or so.

So basically, because this is an island, there are only two regions on the mainland from which people can emigrate to the Isle. So the two port regions on the Isle will slowly grow in population, then the next two regions north of those, then the next two (which includes the city) and finally the region at the north tip of the island. Currently one of the port Isle regions has enough to start emigration, as we've held it for three months, but this still seems like it's going to be an extraordinarily slow process, given people can only emigrate from two regions onto the Isle. Today 41 people emigrated into the depopulated port region (Ecsetuah), with an average of 62 moving in every day since we took it four days ago. At that rate, I'm looking at three months (91 days) before Ecsetuah has enough people for some to start emigrating. So, what, six months until the next two regions can start emigrating? That's six months before the city's population starts increasing at all. That...seems a little harsh.

[egamma]

Okay...the reason I asked is that on the Dark Isle (the large island north of the mainland) on FEI, every region aside from one has been severely depopulated due to war, starvation and a long period of being rogue. The city in particular is a ghost town with just 126 out of a possible 8000 or so.

So basically, because this is an island, there are only two regions on the mainland from which people can emigrate to the Isle. So the two port regions on the Isle will slowly grow in population, then the next two regions north of those, then the next two (which includes the city) and finally the region at the north tip of the island. Currently one of the port Isle regions has enough to start emigration, as we've held it for three months, but this still seems like it's going to be an extraordinarily slow process, given people can only emigrate from two regions onto the Isle. Today 41 people emigrated into the depopulated port region (Ecsetuah), with an average of 62 moving in every day since we took it four days ago. At that rate, I'm looking at three months (91 days) before Ecsetuah has enough people for some to start emigrating. So, what, six months until the next two regions can start emigrating? That's six months before the city's population starts increasing at all. That...seems a little harsh.

And yet, its worlds better than what we had 2 years ago, with no emigration at all.

We can encourage immigration by setting taxes high in Unotosa, lower in Soniel, and lower still on the inner regions. But don't bother until we hit the 75% mark.

[Indirik]

The ravages of war suck. Peasant migration helps, and the region itself will grow faster as population increases. But, really, what more can we do, except add a "Rebuild it all now" button for you to click when your war is over?

[Velax]

The ravages of war suck. Peasant migration helps, and the region itself will grow faster as population increases. But, really, what more can we do, except add a "Rebuild it all now" button for you to click when your war is over?

I'm not asking for instant restoration. But this is a problem that is specific to these island regions. The vast majority of regions in the Far East, and every other continent, have other regions surrounding them on most or all sides. If they were devastated by war and by being rogue, they would get peasants immigrating in from several regions, as many as four or five. Six in some cases. Not one.

[egamma]

The ravages of war suck. Peasant migration helps, and the region itself will grow faster as population increases. But, really, what more can we do, except add a "Rebuild it all now" button for you to click when your war is over?

Pretty much, something similar to drafting, with morale/control/loyalty/production penalties, where you could could choose to forcibly migrate some peasants to an adjacent region. Maybe a large gold bounty for peasants to relocate.

[fodder]

how does that work if it's a bunch of foreigners in all the adjacent regions?

[Indirik]

Peasant migration does not respect realm borders. They will migrate to any non-rogue region.

[Indirik]

I'm not asking for instant restoration. But this is a problem that is specific to these island regions. The vast majority of regions in the Far East, and every other continent, have other regions surrounding them on most or all sides. If they were devastated by war and by being rogue, they would get peasants immigrating in from several regions, as many as four or five. Six in some cases. Not one.

Think of it as a balance thing. Sure, they may only have two ways onto the island, but isn't that why it took, literally, RL years to break Arcachon? And the only reason it actually happened in the end was because of all the infighting and rebellions in Arcachon that broke them from the inside.so, yeah, the regrowth is slow because of the two sea routes onto the island, one of them a fortified beachhead. But if regrowth was going to be faster because of more bordering regions, you'd lose all that extra security.

[Velax]

That's a nice explanation and all, but I still find it difficult to see that six months is a reasonable amount of time to have to wait before the city starts to improve at all, and quite likely a year or more before the city has recovered completely. That's...really not fun for anyone.

[Indirik]

The city will grow every day, even if it's only a few per day, and the rate will increase as the pop increases. It won't take six months to hit max pop. And even then, you don't have to hit max pop before the city is capable of sustaining a decent economy.

But yes, it will be a few months before it's back in top shape. That's what happens when an entire city gets slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child.

[Velax]

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. Currently none of the regions surrounding the city has enough population to start emigrating into it. If population migration happens at the same rate it has been previously, it will be 3-6 months before any of the regions surrounding the city reach the point at which they can start emigrating into the city. As in, it could be as much as six months before the city's population starts increasing at all. And another 3-6 before the city hits full population. That's significantly different from "a few months before it's back in top shape".

The city's population is still exactly the same as it was when we took it 11 days ago: 126. No increase whatsoever.

[Indirik]

What messages are you getting about the region that could affect population? Battles or unrest? Do you have enough food?

Population not going up at all on its own means something is wrong. Either there is a negative factor stopping growth, or a bug. Because it *should* be gaining a few each day.

[fodder]

Peasant migration does not respect realm borders. They will migrate to any non-rogue region.

yes i know that.. i was referring to the forcibly migrate thingy.. if you have a load of empty regions surrounded by foreigners... how would you go about forcibly moving the foreigners into your empty regions? (you can't... unless you want another drumming)