The Marrocidenian war

[Indirik]

Meh... the theocracies aren't afraid. So far, there's nothing to be afraid of. What they are, is bored. Which you would think would make it easier to get them going to fight a war. But thts proving very difficult.

We are, unfortunately, a victim of our great success. And yet, not successful enough in keeping people focused and pointed in the same direction.  We wiped out everyone around us and replaced the enemies with friends. We spawned loads of realms, but stayed friends with just about all of them.

[Chenier]

Meh... the theocracies aren't afraid. So far, there's nothing to be afraid of. What they are, is bored. Which you would think would make it easier to get them going to fight a war. But thts proving very difficult.

We are, unfortunately, a victim of our great success. And yet, not successful enough in keeping people focused and pointed in the same direction.  We wiped out everyone around us and replaced the enemies with friends. We spawned loads of realms, but stayed friends with just about all of them.

Except poor Libero? :P

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Why not? It would be absolutely different. And if we had 50 nobles, we would own your infantry only army. Even with half the nobles you have we do some pretty substantial damage relative to what would be done if you all used normal army compositions. Now, maybe you would wise up and start using archers if we had 50 nobles. But if we kept the same army compositions, and had similar activity rates (big IF there), we would win most every battle.

We don't field an Infantry only army, we have a large and powerful ranged Special Forces contingent, and very limited archers. But, I don't think you would win on a strategic level, Madina even with nearly three times as many nobles as Aurvandil had, when Aurvandil was starving and down to three regions couldn't beat us. Even after they got support from the Caerwyn nobles and the Grand Duchy of Fissoa they still couldn't beat us. Aurvandil grew up fighting realms with more nobles, more gold, better recruitment centres and stronger economies well supported by allies, whilst having none of those ourselves. Thus, the core Orvandeaux leadership are the kings of getting by on nothing and going far with very little, we can put ourselves in a situation where we are out gunned and be confident of victory. Which is why I find it hard to believe that Terran would be able to match us even if you had the same number of nobles, Aurvandil's strength has never been in its numbers, never. But our strength allowed us to bring forth large forces over time. Plus, no realm I have seen has the same stomach Aurvandil does for extremely bloody wars, back in the day every two-three weeks or so we'd lead 2500 men on a suicide mission on Tower Fatmilak just to force Madina to keep spending gold on fortifications and to stop them from taking the fight to us. If it comes to it we can just grind our faces against your sword long enough for it to snap, or the moment it shows any weakness we'll exploit in it an instant, Aurvandil is powerful because we pick our battles, we only fight when we know for sure it will complete an objective, and we are powerful because we always go for the kill immediately. No foreplay, as Barca and D'Hara learnt the hard way in Rettleville and Paisly.

People make the mistake of assuming we simply overwhelm our opponents, when it's a case of we choose battles we know we can win, or that in defeat we will come out better strategically. Which is what I was advising Glaumring to do in Asylon, since he seemed stuck in the mindset of fighting battles when  you aren't sure you can win, just because the enemy army is there, same with Terran actually, against us and Kabrinskia. Which is what Summerdale did in the north as well.

Am I trying to square up to you? I don't really know what you mean. But that comment was direct at Glaumring and how dumb his reasoning was. I get he doesn't like Astrum for one reason or another, but likes Aurvandil. It simply doesn't make  sense that that reason would be "Astrum is big" because Aurvandil is a lot bigger.

Squaring up is when you stand ridiculously close to some one, square your shoulders and pick a fight, usually by shouting something obnoxious like "Yeah what" in their face. Which just seemed like what you were doing.

Glaumring likes Aurvandil because we conquer, but we then hand that land out on a whim for people to do with as they please, create what they like without interference. We don't just hold onto it, or give it to people we know will be our allies and support us. Hell, Aurvandil will likely end up fighting Falkirk, or the new Paisly realm if we ever end up in peace time.

The Astrocracies don't set up free realms? Just because they are mostly allied with each other doesn't mean they aren't "free." They all do basically whatever they want individually.

Well, I mean "not free" as in they are set up and are instantly just apart of the Astocratic federation, it makes little difference if they're a new realm or in their old one, they're still friends with the same people, subservient to the same goals, and thus, not free to pursue a completely independent path, whether they want to or not. That, and I am always under the assumption that the new realms in the north are only ever set up on the condition that they do ally, and that they are subservient to the dominant religion, and do maintain the peace. Whereas in Aurvandil, you could openly declare to Mendicant that you would fight a war with him and he'd just say "Come back when you're big enough for me to feel it" and still hand you a mandate for a new realm. With Madina City Mendicant literally just said "Who wants a new realm" then picked whoever was more convenient at the time and let them create whatever they wanted without Mendicant giving any input or conditions whatsoever. With Paisly he pretty much handed it to Florence because she was the former ruler of Madina, a woman, and too licentious to attend his banquets with any decorum,  and he said "Do whatever you want so long as you do it fast and I don't have to pay for it". Anyone in Aurvandil can make a new realm of their choosing since Mendicant basically picks them on a whim, if Aurvandil ends up conquering a city it's almost guaranteed Mendicant is going to mandate a noble to make a new realm and to do it before it becomes inconvenient to him.

You.. conquer... defensively?  :o

Take Paisland for example, we only ever conquered into it after Terran took it, before that the unwritten agreement with D'Hara was "We'll drop our intent for Paisly so long as you take it and keep the peace". The same with Madina, Mendicant was desperate to get Madina to sign peace so he didn't have to go through the inconvenience of peace by conquest, Mendicant doesn't want conquest, he's too lazy for that, he just wants his opponents to submit as though it were a duel to surrender, a mutual admittance of who was the better swordsman now lets leave it at that.

We conquer as a reaction, to defend the Commonwealth. It's the same reason why we never conquered Rettleville when it was undefended after the battles in Maeotis and Paisly, Barca no longer presented a threat so there was no need for it as a means to defend the borders of the Commonwealth.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

So does Aurvandil, that's why they want to set up moar colonies.

And so does Luria. They've heard too many legends of the Krakken, D'Hara's flagship.

That implies we fear a fight, we just begrudge the necessity of it when it's wars we don't choose to fight.

Setting up new realms means we won't have to fight, or have a war forced on us so long as they stand in the way as a neutral zone. It allows us to maintain our isolation.

[Chenier]

That implies we fear a fight, we just begrudge the necessity of it when it's wars we don't choose to fight.

Setting up new realms means we won't have to fight, or have a war forced on us so long as they stand in the way as a neutral zone. It allows us to maintain our isolation.

You erroneously believe that a new realm in Paisly could somehow do something to prevent northern realms from sailing to your lands.

There's nothing that anyone in Paisly can do to prevent northern troops from sailing south, and sailing would be the most logical path for any non-moot realm to attack you. There's no such thing as a neutral zone. A buffer state between yourselves and Terran, sure, but no more.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

You erroneously believe that a new realm in Paisly could somehow do something to prevent northern realms from sailing to your lands.

There's nothing that anyone in Paisly can do to prevent northern troops from sailing south, and sailing would be the most logical path for any non-moot realm to attack you. There's no such thing as a neutral zone. A buffer state between yourselves and Terran, sure, but no more.

Well, this was all decided before sea travel was implemented, which now gives realms a ridiculous fast means of attacking anywhere without being located before hand. The Paisly realm would still be a land barrier to Terran and D'Hara, and to a lesser extent a threat to Barca not that it's needed.

Plus, I.C. Mendicant still has complete faith in his Marine Impériale that we roleplayed, though no such counter balance exists in actual gameplay terms.

But as for a neutral zone, well the Paisly realm will be pretty neutral, or at least Aurvandil won't allow them to overly favour us. The Paisly realm will set up a new dynamic of politics in the south, which is the intent. Aurvandil won't be able to march north without violating the borders of the realm and thus declaring war, and the same for Terran.

[Chenier]

Can all dukes secede?

If so, you could always make a new realm in Evanburg, if that's all you want. And Tower Fatmilak.

I think the outcome of a colony in Paisly are pretty predictable. Terran will just be more angry, and will attack it as much as they can, and D'Hara will be pissed off into a death-duel with it until one of the two dies.

Much to the pleasure of the Lurians, who would rather the Krakken remain West instead of East.

[Lanyon]

Don't y'all see what Medicant is trying to allude to? He is going to fight the Zuma, conquer them, and give their lands to me. Duh! Anyways, boss I want to get out of paisly ASAP place smells like fish. can we get back to defensively conquering? :P

[Chenier]

Don't y'all see what Medicant is trying to allude to? He is going to fight the Zuma, conquer them, and give their lands to me. Duh! Anyways, boss I want to get out of paisly ASAP place smells like fish. can we get back to defensively conquering? :P

Terran and D'Hara don't really like the Zuma... if he can show that he can beat up the Zuma, we might just help him. ;)

[Zakilevo]

Doubt Aurvandil will let the stronghold with their best infantry RC succeed lol

As for Zuma... can anyone really get rid of them?

[Chenier]

Doubt Aurvandil will let the stronghold with their best infantry RC succeed lol

As for Zuma... can anyone really get rid of them?

I invite Aurvandil to join forces with SA to try as much.

[Perth]

We don't field an Infantry only army, we have a large and powerful ranged Special Forces contingent, and very limited archers. But, I don't think you would win on a strategic level, Madina even with nearly three times as many nobles as Aurvandil had, when Aurvandil was starving and down to three regions couldn't beat us. Even after they got support from the Caerwyn nobles and the Grand Duchy of Fissoa they still couldn't beat us. Aurvandil grew up fighting realms with more nobles, more gold, better recruitment centres and stronger economies well supported by allies, whilst having none of those ourselves. Thus, the core Orvandeaux leadership are the kings of getting by on nothing and going far with very little, we can put ourselves in a situation where we are out gunned and be confident of victory. Which is why I find it hard to believe that Terran would be able to match us even if you had the same number of nobles, Aurvandil's strength has never been in its numbers, never. But our strength allowed us to bring forth large forces over time. Plus, no realm I have seen has the same stomach Aurvandil does for extremely bloody wars, back in the day every two-three weeks or so we'd lead 2500 men on a suicide mission on Tower Fatmilak just to force Madina to keep spending gold on fortifications and to stop them from taking the fight to us. If it comes to it we can just grind our faces against your sword long enough for it to snap, or the moment it shows any weakness we'll exploit in it an instant, Aurvandil is powerful because we pick our battles, we only fight when we know for sure it will complete an objective, and we are powerful because we always go for the kill immediately. No foreplay, as Barca and D'Hara learnt the hard way in Rettleville and Paisly.

People make the mistake of assuming we simply overwhelm our opponents, when it's a case of we choose battles we know we can win, or that in defeat we will come out better strategically. Which is what I was advising Glaumring to do in Asylon, since he seemed stuck in the mindset of fighting battles when  you aren't sure you can win, just because the enemy army is there, same with Terran actually, against us and Kabrinskia. Which is what Summerdale did in the north as well.

Squaring up is when you stand ridiculously close to some one, square your shoulders and pick a fight, usually by shouting something obnoxious like "Yeah what" in their face. Which just seemed like what you were doing.

Glaumring likes Aurvandil because we conquer, but we then hand that land out on a whim for people to do with as they please, create what they like without interference. We don't just hold onto it, or give it to people we know will be our allies and support us. Hell, Aurvandil will likely end up fighting Falkirk, or the new Paisly realm if we ever end up in peace time.

Well, I mean "not free" as in they are set up and are instantly just apart of the Astocratic federation, it makes little difference if they're a new realm or in their old one, they're still friends with the same people, subservient to the same goals, and thus, not free to pursue a completely independent path, whether they want to or not. That, and I am always under the assumption that the new realms in the north are only ever set up on the condition that they do ally, and that they are subservient to the dominant religion, and do maintain the peace. Whereas in Aurvandil, you could openly declare to Mendicant that you would fight a war with him and he'd just say "Come back when you're big enough for me to feel it" and still hand you a mandate for a new realm. With Madina City Mendicant literally just said "Who wants a new realm" then picked whoever was more convenient at the time and let them create whatever they wanted without Mendicant giving any input or conditions whatsoever. With Paisly he pretty much handed it to Florence because she was the former ruler of Madina, a woman, and too licentious to attend his banquets with any decorum,  and he said "Do whatever you want so long as you do it fast and I don't have to pay for it". Anyone in Aurvandil can make a new realm of their choosing since Mendicant basically picks them on a whim, if Aurvandil ends up conquering a city it's almost guaranteed Mendicant is going to mandate a noble to make a new realm and to do it before it becomes inconvenient to him.

Sure, I'll give it you that you all are resourceful. No one argues against that I don't think. You are so resourceful and active to the point of a lot of controversy and suspicion around it.

However, I would posit that the war between Aurvandil and Madina was fundementally different in that it was all focused on one small bottle necked choke point. This changes a lot.

Nevertheless, I won't argue the hypothetical war between Terran and Aurvandil any longer. Was a little silly to bring up in the first place, I guess.

--


So, this new realm in Paisly... you have no intention of defending it, then? So you're conquering it so Terran can't have it, then are going to split it off, and then sit by while Terran reconquers it? Seems... silly.

[Chenier]

I think he just wants D'Hara to fight to take it back.

Or maybe he's just deceiving the Lurias, secretly sailing a fleet to Giask's outskirts as they think D'Hara is being occupied out West.

[Vellos]

Can we please immortalize the doctrine of "defensive conquest"? Seems a bit, erm... paradoxical...

[Perth]

Can we please immortalize the doctrine of "defensive conquest"? Seems a bit, erm... paradoxical...

Ya know, it's like Iraq. America Defensively Conquered it.