101 Ways to Destabalize the Northern Astroist Federation

[Indirik]

Not while Saffalore, Falkirk, and Aurvandil remain, at least.

Nobody cares about Saffalore, Falkirk, or Aurvandil.

Well, maybe about Falkirk. But I don't see that lasting much longer. Aurvandil's threats to destroy everyone who even looked cross-eyed at Falkirk have fizzled into so much empty smoke.

[Chenier]

Nobody cares about Saffalore, Falkirk, or Aurvandil.

Well, maybe about Falkirk. But I don't see that lasting much longer. Aurvandil's threats to destroy everyone who even looked cross-eyed at Falkirk have fizzled into so much empty smoke.

D'Hara does. As does Fissoa. And by extension, as does Luria Nova.

So the north can war itself all it wants, I deem the odds of D'Hara really joining in as being rather low.

[cenrae]

If all that stuff happened at once it would be like world war. Talk about some excitement.

[Indirik]

Like I said, D'Hara will be too busy to interfere in the north. And the north will be too busy to care about D'Hara's problems.

[Anaris]

Like I said, D'Hara will be too busy to interfere in the north. And the north will be too busy to care about D'Hara's problems.

Yeeees. Yes, it will.

Won't that be nice?



(We totally need an "evil grin" emoticon...)

[Tandaros]

I do hope so- without a war against LN to distract him I have a funny feeling that Rynn would probably ride out to defend his one true love and drag the rest of D'Hara kicking and screaming with him.

FR and DH are indeed good playmates. That Golden Farrow-Raviel connection must have some significant social traction.

One thing I've picked up from my modest experience of playing BM on Dwilight is a simple appreciation for the vast scale of things on our continent. It takes forever to get from Sallowtown to Paisly for example; the crusade attempts in the south fizzled out as graciously as the Fourth Crusade. So each realm basically needs to learn to acklnowledge how far they can throw their influence with military, and how far they can lend diplomatic pressure.

So DH might not be able to get involved in a northern conflagration, but would probably get roped in to FR's side for the aforementioned reason. Probably not a lot of troops, judging from the not-so-vague threats of war I'm seeing. 

Nobody cares about Saffalore, Falkirk, or Aurvandil.

Well, maybe about Falkirk. But I don't see that lasting much longer. Aurvandil's threats to destroy everyone who even looked cross-eyed at Falkirk have fizzled into so much empty smoke.

That's not true. Nobles care about every realm... especially when they're about to die. Power vacuums draw the ambitious like corpsesdraw vultures.

[Chenier]

Like I said, D'Hara will be too busy to interfere in the north. And the north will be too busy to care about D'Hara's problems.

Indeed.

[Geronus]

Also, I can only "play the game" so to speak with SA if I'm a member of it? Nonsense.

Kale has many influences and connections in SA. He did play the game. Just because he "lost" doesn't mean he didn't "play the game."

Not really nonsense, no. Your ability to influence the Church directly as a non-member is essentially non-existent, so you'd have to be working through cat's paws who are members of the Church, which limits you to fighting with whatever influence or power those particular members are able to wield. Unless you have unusually highly placed or influential contacts in the Church who are willing to argue your side, it's a fairly large handicap not being able to speak for yourself and build up your own power base within the Church, at least when you're sparring with an Elder.

SA has a tradition of highly influential members basically running the show and dragging the rest of the Church along with them. I'm sorry, but you just can't expect to wield much influence in the Church through a third party unless the Third party in question is a serious power player in his own right, in which case any credit for playing and winning the game would go to him, not you, wouldn't it?

[Glaumring the Fox]

Hate to say it but Vellos is right... Unless you are an ex-member that still has influential ties that is. I was surprised because after leaving the church I became much more motivated to make my own mark as a noble,born to lead let the peasants follow.

[Perth]

Not really nonsense, no. Your ability to influence the Church directly as a non-member is essentially non-existent, so you'd have to be working through cat's paws who are members of the Church, which limits you to fighting with whatever influence or power those particular members are able to wield. Unless you have unusually highly placed or influential contacts in the Church who are willing to argue your side, it's a fairly large handicap not being able to speak for yourself and build up your own power base within the Church, at least when you're sparring with an Elder.

SA has a tradition of highly influential members basically running the show and dragging the rest of the Church along with them. I'm sorry, but you just can't expect to wield much influence in the Church through a third party unless the Third party in question is a serious power player in his own right, in which case any credit for playing and winning the game would go to him, not you, wouldn't it?

That's silly. You're essentially saying no one can "play the game" or influence any other body they are not a part of. People influence foreign bodies they aren't a part of all the time: they're called realms and its called diplomacy. I fail to see how SA is any different.

[Penchant]

That's silly. You're essentially saying no one can "play the game" or influence any other body they are not a part of. People influence foreign bodies they aren't a part of all the time: they're called realms and its called diplomacy. I fail to see how SA is any different.

He is not saying you can't, just that it will be hard to do with SA outside of SA.

[Perth]

He is not saying you can't, just that it will be hard to do with SA outside of SA.

I don't dispute that, then. Obviously that's the case.

But I'm pretty sure he told me to STFU about SA because I have no right to "complain about SA" if I'm not "willing to play the game" which he defines as being in SA. He is essentially saying no one outside of SA has the right to complain about SA. Which is... ridiculous.

[Glaumring the Fox]

But but... Thats how SA works!?? 

[Fleugs]

I don't dispute that, then. Obviously that's the case.

But I'm pretty sure he told me to STFU about SA because I have no right to "complain about SA" if I'm not "willing to play the game" which he defines as being in SA. He is essentially saying no one outside of SA has the right to complain about SA. Which is... ridiculous.

Boo SA! Let's burn it down. I have almost 6000 gold to invest into this cause.

[Vellos]

That's silly. You're essentially saying no one can "play the game" or influence any other body they are not a part of. People influence foreign bodies they aren't a part of all the time: they're called realms and its called diplomacy. I fail to see how SA is any different.

Except that his explanation is factually correct. You really can't influence SA from outside, at least not much, especially when you're trying to fight against the words of the religion's enormously respected founder.

People like Leopold or Gustav– they may have some influence. And your influence on them may do a little in SA: but that's miniscule. And frankly I seriously doubt you meaningfully affected the positions of anyone in SA. This was a feud waiting to happen.