What does Atamara need to happen?

[Blue Star]

Stick with CE long enough and eventually you'll get a realm to rule. See: Tara, Carelia, Coria, Strombran, etc. I was surprised that no one demanded the crown when we were carving out Lyonesse!

Thought crossed my mind, but I don't think my character's liked the realm's name to long and sounds like lion.

[Dante Silverfire]

Stick with CE long enough and eventually you'll get a realm to rule. See: Tara, Carelia, Coria, Strombran, etc. I was surprised that no one demanded the crown when we were carving out Lyonesse!

And become their subjects for life in exchange? Lol.

Well I certainly took the first ship out and it's worked out great for my character.

At any rate, the only reason I see to stay in the empire is if you always need to be on the winning side. Otherwise, ambition should drive you to greater success.

[Kwanstein]

The continent seems fine right now. Darka and the Cagilian bloc are engaged in perpetual war, while (as someone mentioned) the fragmented North-East is ripe for conflict as well.

One flaw I think is with the map design. It favours super empires at the far corners, similar to Sirion but not as bad. Super empires are impervious, so they stagnate conflict. I am talking about Darka here. It hasn't actually come to pass, but I think that the CE will find that they cannot defeat Darka, as it is too far away. If the CE cannot defeat Darka, than no one can, so the political situation in the North-West will likely persist similarly as it is now for some time to come. Unless Darka experiences some crazy secession like the Barony did. But that is unlikely, as crazy secessions are very rare, hence why they are known as crazy and not bland or typical.

[Indirik]

That's certainly an interesting interpretation of things. "This whole stagnation mess is Darka's fault! If they would just die, everything would be fine."

[Geronus]

Super empires are impervious, so they stagnate conflict. I am talking about Darka here.

I'm not sure how you can say this with a straight face. The only "super empire" on Atamara is the Cagilan Empire and allies. Darka is just one realm. A powerful realm, I will grant you, but not one that has ever had the political ambition to be a hegemon.

[jaune]

 ;D ;D

So, if Darka loses this war... stagnation at Atamara is over?/there has not been stagnation at our corner of map for few years) Right... CE & Tara & Strombran federation has nothing to do with it?

-Jaune

[Lavigna]

Mighty Empire of Darka!  :D

Come on really? I do understand that many players hate Darka because it never went to war and lost regions and all but as it was previously said, they had no ambitions to take over Atamara :P

Most of the times they helped realms to grow bigger (for ex. Tara and CE) and this is something to actually blame to Darka.

I doubt that Darka breaking up in pieces would change anything in Atamara, it would just destroy North once and for all and make CE even more powerfull as they would find away to sneak in the North as well by creating puppet realms.What then?

In fact even if the war ends and Darka survives unharmed..What then? It is a fact that for things to change the stronger realm must receive beating, this is what always changes things .

I don 't know where this war with Darka will end but it will certainly not change things in Atamara whatever the outcome is.

[Kwanstein]

The Cagilian alliance has been expanding for some time now, so no one can accuse it of stagnating. It is, in fact, the main source of conflict and change. It's also in a precarious position, as it is composed of many separate realms, the heartland of which is in the centre of the continent. This gives it the potential for much future change as well.

Darka, on the other hand, is gigantic, and in the corner of the continent. They are a dominating presence, with a solid, practically unbreakable foundation, so I do not expect much change to come from them.

[Lavigna]

The Cagilian alliance has been expanding for some time now, so no one can accuse it of stagnating. It is, in fact, the main source of conflict and change. It's also in a precarious position, as it is composed of many separate realms, the heartland of which is in the centre of the continent. This gives it the potential for much future change as well.

Darka, on the other hand, is gigantic, and in the corner of the continent. They are a dominating presence, with a solid, practically unbreakable foundation, so I do not expect much change to come from them.

You are wrong, CE got gigantic mostly in this war, they even changed their name to Mighty Cagila Empire , as Empire was not enough :P
Also the reason CE AND Tara became huge, was indeed due to Darka. This is the only reason you can actually blame them for.For helping realms grow, and others die.That was in the past though.

Darka was always huge yes, but they never started personal wars, they were neutral and this is why it remained huge.Ever crossed your mind why they never received beating?Due to the mercenary status of the realm and the fact realms were actually signing contracts non stop with them in the past.

Also don't speak about CE without mentioning Tara.They are practically the same realm.Do the math.

And i am asking you.Let's say Darka breaks in pieces due to the war with CE, which means CE will actually put leaders in the new formed realms and control North as well.What then?

If you accuse them of being a stagnation to the Continent then you must have an idea of what their downfall would create and make Atamara better.Do enlighten us what that would be.

[Ender]

The Cagilian alliance has been expanding for some time now, so no one can accuse it of stagnating. It is, in fact, the main source of conflict and change.

While their constant expansion is by definition not stagnation, the fact that a massive percentage of Atamara's realms are all allied and cannot make a move without being utterly destroyed means there will be Atamaran stagnation once CE has hit it's limits, which is more or less has at this point. The only thing that can happen now is CE either breaks apart or everyone on Atamara is Imperial and there is nothing left to do.

Just because CE has been expanding for years, doesn't mean it isn't creating stagnation by making it next to impossible to do anything on Atamara that the Empire will not somehow have a hand in or influence.

[Kwanstein]

You are wrong, CE got gigantic mostly in this war, they even changed their name to Mighty Cagila Empire , as Empire was not enough :P
Also the reason CE AND Tara became huge, was indeed due to Darka. This is the only reason you can actually blame them for.For helping realms grow, and others die.That was in the past though.

Darka was always huge yes, but they never started personal wars, they were neutral and this is why it remained huge.Ever crossed your mind why they never received beating?Due to the mercenary status of the realm and the fact realms were actually signing contracts non stop with them in the past.

Also don't speak about CE without mentioning Tara.They are practically the same realm.Do the math.

And i am asking you.Let's say Darka breaks in pieces due to the war with CE, which means CE will actually put leaders in the new formed realms and control North as well.What then?

If you accuse them of being a stagnation to the Continent then you must have an idea of what their downfall would create and make Atamara better.Do enlighten us what that would be.

I am not saying that Darka will fall; my entire point is that they will most likely never fall. The Cagilian alliance is built on trust, which if fragile, where as Darka's power is built on a geographically favourable position, which will always exist. This makes the CA more susceptible to change than Darka.

[Lavigna]

While their constant expansion is by definition not stagnation, the fact that a massive percentage of Atamara's realms are all allied and cannot make a move without being utterly destroyed means there will be Atamaran stagnation once CE has hit it's limits, which is more or less has at this point. The only thing that can happen now is CE either breaks apart or everyone on Atamara is Imperial and there is nothing left to do.

Just because CE has been expanding for years, doesn't mean it isn't creating stagnation by making it next to impossible to do anything on Atamara that the Empire will not somehow have a hand in or influence.

+1     

what Ender said about CE's allies ...soooooo true.

[Lavigna]

I am not saying that Darka will fall; my entire point is that they will most likely never fall. The Cagilian alliance is built on trust, which if fragile, where as Darka's power is built on a geographically favourable position, which will always exist. This makes the CA more susceptible to change than Darka.

From what you re saying, the only thing that comes out of it is that Darka is the only realm CE cannot destroy as easily as others :P Is that your view of stagnation?

The position?Oh well that will never change whatever banner is running up there. Even if the corner breaks in two realms you can bet they will form a federation and act as one. It is only normal.Because there is no threat from behind :P So what is your point exactly?

[Lavigna]

Also take Suville in consideration as well, a perfect geographical positon, the only difference is they are not as huge as Darka is.They could get as powerfull though if they could take over Caergoth for example.

Corners are powerful, but when it comes to a war outside their borders..are they?

In this war Darka received so many limitations that they couldn't make a single difference in this war.Corner has both good things and bad things.

Imagine Darka marching to CE for example,leaving the realm totally unprotected for example.Darka no longer has Eston to cover her front, only Talerium, thus it is vulnarable.

The only reason CE can't make a big difference is the fact Talerium won't let them pass and thus they have to travel many regions to reach us giving us the advantage to prepare ourselves and defend.Wasn't that the exact same thing Darka faced when she has to attack CE and Talerium wouldn't grant them passage?

Yes. Yes it was.

[flames]

From the "historic" point of view it would be cool, if CE would win all wars and then fall because of internal problems, like Roman Empire, like it it was selling titles, going on killing sprees, having a horse in the senate etc %)

But for now my character (Piro Killer) hopes to destroy Darka once and for all, heheheh.