What does Atamara need to happen?

[Lavigna]

From the "historic" point of view it would be cool, if CE would win all wars and then fall because of internal problems, like Roman Empire, like it it was selling titles, going on killing sprees, having a horse in the senate etc %)

But for now my character (Piro Killer) hopes to destroy Darka once and for all, heheheh.

Darka will receive beating, but destroy it once and for all? lol. but i can understand you would want that ....although i don 't understand why ....

My family and yours are not over. I will avenge that duel! Count on it! XD

[flames]

Darka will receive beating, but destroy it once and for all? lol. but i can understand you would want that ....although i don 't understand why ....

My family and yours are not over. I will avenge that duel! Count on it! XD

Well, he was banned from Darka, and since he is an arrogant bastard he wants his former realm dead dead dead!!!
The duel was great, btw, I wasn't hoping to win :P

[Kwanstein]

Also take Suville in consideration as well, a perfect geographical positon, the only difference is they are not as huge as Darka is.They could get as powerfull though if they could take over Caergoth for example.

Corners are powerful, but when it comes to a war outside their borders..are they?

In this war Darka received so many limitations that they couldn't make a single difference in this war.Corner has both good things and bad things.

Imagine Darka marching to CE for example,leaving the realm totally unprotected for example.Darka no longer has Eston to cover her front, only Talerium, thus it is vulnarable.

The only reason CE can't make a big difference is the fact Talerium won't let them pass and thus they have to travel many regions to reach us giving us the advantage to prepare ourselves and defend.Wasn't that the exact same thing Darka faced when she has to attack CE and Talerium wouldn't grant them passage?

Yes. Yes it was.

Yes, most corner positions are as advantageous as Darka's, which I think is a shame. It's a nice surprise to see situations where the powerful realms are located in the centre of the map, because I know that in the future those realms will probably be torn apart.

If I were a map maker, I would locate the richest and most traversable lands in the centre of the map, while restricting the corners to relative poverty and long travel times. This would balance out the inherent benefits of corner realms with the inherent disabilities of central realms.

No harsh feelings towards Darka, either. It's not that the players or rulers of corner realms are bad, it's just the maps themselves that bother me.

[Lavigna]

Well to that you have a point but for a center realm like CE and with the allies she has, i really don't see who will dare to war them and even more who will achieve it.Such realms mostly die from the inside because it is impossible to bring them down.

And at this point i would really understand why a Cagilan Duke wouldn't  try and destroy such an Empire by seeking to make a realm of his own when his realm is the most poweful in the Continent and with no threat of that changing.

Not that any Duke would actually survive a secession XD...It is a weird situation and after  almost 10 years playing in Atamara i can honestly say i ve never seen anything like this in the Continent :)

[Anaris]

Yes, most corner positions are as advantageous as Darka's, which I think is a shame. It's a nice surprise to see situations where the powerful realms are located in the centre of the map, because I know that in the future those realms will probably be torn apart.

Except that historically, in BattleMaster, the highly influential, imperialistic realms have tended to be in the center. I'm looking particularly at CE and Enweil here.

Darka is, indeed, reasonably well protected—but, as several others have said, they have never tried to build an empire. They just want to hold onto the land that they have, and be hired to fight other realms.

So your assertion doesn't really hold up terribly well in practice.

If I were a map maker, I would locate the richest and most traversable lands in the centre of the map, while restricting the corners to relative poverty and long travel times. This would balance out the inherent benefits of corner realms with the inherent disabilities of central realms.

Well, y'see, part of the problem here is...none of BM's maps were really designed to maximise strategy...or promote certain ways of playing or thinking...or really "designed" much at all. ;D

But you're also forgetting one other very important thing: Soon, sea travel will be coming to Atamara, and then no one will have a completely safe sea border.

[Bael]

This directly contradicts this:
No motivation? You just said it up above: "my character ... would love nothing more than to be a ruler of his own realm". Apparently there is something that your character loves more than being a ruler of his own realm: Being a duke in someone else's realm.

At the same time, he is not stupid. To try get something that would soon be lost would just be foolish. So I'll give you that there is motivation, just not enough to work for a favourable position in which to secede (which would be unlikely, as well).

[Geronus]

Yes, most corner positions are as advantageous as Darka's, which I think is a shame. It's a nice surprise to see situations where the powerful realms are located in the centre of the map, because I know that in the future those realms will probably be torn apart.

If I were a map maker, I would locate the richest and most traversable lands in the centre of the map, while restricting the corners to relative poverty and long travel times. This would balance out the inherent benefits of corner realms with the inherent disabilities of central realms.

No harsh feelings towards Darka, either. It's not that the players or rulers of corner realms are bad, it's just the maps themselves that bother me.

History does not agree with you. See: Perdan, Caligus, CE, Tara and Enweil as prominent examples of centrally located realms that have been strong for many years and have not yet been torn apart going back to when I started playing five years ago. On the other end of things, see Abington, Ibladesh, Soliferum, Arcachon, etc. as "corner" realms that ate dirt. I won't deny that geography confers advantages, but it is not as determinative as you are making it out to be. Darka could be destroyed if CE was willing to allow Lyonesse to start TOing Darkan regions (and Lyonesse was willing to take them). Also if Talerium stopped protecting them.

[Dante Silverfire]

I firmly believe that I'd you are a Duke of MiCE or Tara and you have ambitions beyond simply being Duke that there is no real reason to not pursue it further. Any statement that it is likely that you would quickly fail is simply an excuse. There are plenty of ways to help ensure your success and many clear allies which one can seek out if you took that path. Also, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that CE would rush quickly to destroy any new started realms. A new realm built by secession which properly prepared itself would not only likely survive but also end up as a very quick ally of the old CE.

In my opinion I just think many Dukes of CE are just too happy with their realm wide extortion of taxes of their nobility far above a reasonable level to want to even try to change things. Much better to simply sit on ones gold mine and continueto keep ones nobles in poverty and busy with useless wars.

[Ender]

I won't deny that geography confers advantages, but it is not as determinative as you are making it out to be. Darka could be destroyed if CE was willing to allow Lyonesse to start TOing Darkan regions (and Lyonesse was willing to take them). Also if Talerium stopped protecting them.

I agree with this. Any realm, no matter their advantages, can be destroyed or weakened. It's just a matter of getting enough resources together to stomp on someone. Darka is handily surviving and winning because they seem to be real solid defenders, have a capable military, and the CE just doesn't seem to care enough to actually try hard enough to stop them. With the resources at CE's disposal things could be going differently.

Of course, that's all an outsider's perspective, but still.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick to assume that CE would rush quickly to destroy any new started realms. A new realm built by secession which properly prepared itself would not only likely survive but also end up as a very quick ally of the old CE.

I'd be interested in seeing that happen though at the same time the results are pointless. If the seceded realm becomes an ally of CE and, presumably, an Imperial member, then it's the exact same thing as being a part of CE, except you have a fancy crown on your head. Which, hey, having a fancy crown is nice, but it still means you aren't doing much differently than you would've been as an influential Duke. I'd like to see a successful secession make some waves down there and carve out an independent entity.

[Indirik]

Yes, most corner positions are as advantageous as Darka's, which I think is a shame.

Corner positions have quite a few disadvantages. Most of their advantages are disadvantages as well.  Hard to get in? It's hard to get out, too. Few people that can get there to fight them? Few people they can get out to fight, too.

It's a nice surprise to see situations where the powerful realms are located in the centre of the map, because I know that in the future those realms will probably be torn apart.

EC has always been dominated by centrally located realms. It has changed from realm to ream, over time, but a few of them: Perdan, Caligus, Fontan, SoA, Westmoor.... All strong, centrally located realms. Especially Perdan and Fontan.

FEI has had several strong central realms, including Arcaea and Cathay. (Although Arcaea was so strong they expanded into the corner realm they wiped out.) Greater Aenilia used to be quite strong, but not quite dominating.

[Bael]

In my opinion I just think many Dukes of CE are just too happy with their realm wide extortion of taxes of their nobility far above a reasonable level to want to even try to change things.

Realm-wide? Obviously there is something that I am not taking advantage of...and there I thought that I could only tax my duchy.

Much better to simply sit on ones gold mine and continue to keep ones nobles in poverty and busy with useless wars.

Yes, because keeping them in poverty ensures that we will lose any wars that we fight  ::)

[Perth]

They just want to hold onto the land that they have, and be hired to fight other realms.

Remember Massillion!

Never Forget.


Some of us are still bitter.  ;)

[Dante Silverfire]

Realm-wide? Obviously there is something that I am not taking advantage of...and there I thought that I could only tax my duchy.

Yes, because keeping them in poverty ensures that we will lose any wars that we fight  ::)

So your duchy tax rate isn't 25% like the rest of CE? My duchy in Coria runs a 5-10% duchy tax depending upon situation. I far prefer 5% because it gives more gold to the knights of the duchy.

Btw it is very possible to provide nobles only the minimum amount of gold needed to support their unit and make them reliant on the dukes for handouts. That is what CE does. On the other hand, a realm like Coria floods their nobles with gold and I believe has the most gold production per noble on Atamara. Does this gold get held by the dukes or the nobles? The nobles.

Honestly it amazes me that CE's nobles simply don't rise up due to this injustice while their allies are treated much better. Want a reason why an enterprising duke would survive a ssecession? He can actually treat his nobles well and show the rest what they were missing.

[Bael]

So your duchy tax rate isn't 25% like the rest of CE? My duchy in Coria runs a 5-10% duchy tax depending upon situation. I far prefer 5% because it gives more gold to the knights of the duchy.

Indeed it is, but only because one day every other duke suddenly put their taxes up, and obviously there were IC reasons to follow along. Food is sold for 40 gold per 100 bushels, however, which I suspect is the highest price in the whole of Atamara. Does it balance? Probably not, but it's something.

Strictly speaking, the taxes that the Duke collects are taken directly from the Lord's tax income, which does not directly affect how much gold the Knights get. Obviously, if the Lords decide that they must make up the loss, then they would perhaps tax their Knights more, but then the Lords would have unhappy Knights. Thus changing the duchy tax from 10% to 5% would have zero effect on the Knights unless the Lords/Ladies of the regions passed on the changes.

Btw it is very possible to provide nobles only the minimum amount of gold needed to support their unit and make them reliant on the dukes for handouts. That is what CE does. On the other hand, a realm like Coria floods their nobles with gold and I believe has the most gold production per noble on Atamara. Does this gold get held by the dukes or the nobles? The nobles.

Just two different ways of operating, in the end. There are a lot of rich lands in the CE, so people don't go destitute.

Honestly it amazes me that CE's nobles simply don't rise up due to this injustice while their allies are treated much better. Want a reason why an enterprising duke would survive a ssecession? He can actually treat his nobles well and show the rest what they were missing.

Truthfully, I don't remember seeing it being mentioned by anyone.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Remember Massillion!

Never Forget.


Some of us are still bitter.  ;)

Too bad some of you are the laughing stock of Atamara soon to board a ship out of the continent :D