Temple specific noble alignment

[Sarwell]

90%? If that were true, Niselur would have been long buried under mountains of its own dead, and Asylon and Phantaria along with it.

90% is an exaggeration. I'll cede that. Do note, however, that I never claimed it had that power now, but in the past.

[Sacha]

It's never had that much power. Even 50% is a bit of a stretch, I'd say.

[Sarwell]

Well, there's Astrum, Terran, the Morek Empire, and Corsanctum for the current hardliner realms alone. As of seven days ago, they had nearly a third of the continent's population and regions, slightly over a third of the economic and military strength and food production, and a quarter of the characters.

Not 50%, of course, but that's only including the currently-allied "true theocracies", and discounting the separatists in Niselur and the Farronite Republic. I'm quite sure that including those two would push it over 50% on at least some of those counts, not to mention the Astroist nobles in the southern realms. And that's for all of Dwilight; it would be even higher if we only tracked the Occidens.

[Stabbity]

Well, there's Astrum, Terran, the Morek Empire, and Corsanctum for the current hardliner realms alone. As of seven days ago, they had nearly a third of the continent's population and regions, slightly over a third of the economic and military strength and food production, and a quarter of the characters.

Not 50%, of course, but that's only including the currently-allied "true theocracies", and discounting the separatists in Niselur and the Farronite Republic. I'm quite sure that including those two would push it over 50% on at least some of those counts, not to mention the Astroist nobles in the southern realms. And that's for all of Dwilight; it would be even higher if we only tracked the Occidens.

Terran is about dead and Corsanctum... Well it can't even appoint lords to all of its regions, its noble count is that low. Astrum and Morek are sitting pretty decently at the moment, but we'll see how that goes. Two major realms does not equal continental domination on Dwilight.

[Jaden]

Corsanctum has the noble count of a duchy, albeit a duchy that has 3 cities and 3 townsland, but still...
Population and gold aint equal power, especially not in dwilight where gold is plentiful.

[Tom]

Funny how things like this can happen even when developers explicitly say they shouldn't. Emergent gameplay for ya.

We never said they shouldn't. In fact, I'm happy that the long-time complaint of religion holding no power finally has some counter-examples.

But a game mechanic specifically DESIGNED to simulate a catholic-church like power-wielding hegemony is something else altogether.

[Chenier]

We never said they shouldn't. In fact, I'm happy that the long-time complaint of religion holding no power finally has some counter-examples.

But a game mechanic specifically DESIGNED to simulate a catholic-church like power-wielding hegemony is something else altogether.

why do you persist in considering subdivisions as being a "catholic simulation"? How does it scream "catholicism"? It's not because the catholic church did something that they own the rights to it and no one else ever did it.

[Tom]

why do you persist in considering subdivisions as being a "catholic simulation"? How does it scream "catholicism"? It's not because the catholic church did something that they own the rights to it and no one else ever did it.

If you focus on the subdivision aspect alone, search this forum for an older feature request for something very much like it and the reasoning we posted there to why it was rejected.

[Chenier]

If you focus on the subdivision aspect alone, search this forum for an older feature request for something very much like it and the reasoning we posted there to why it was rejected.

I'd have a hard time thinking of a better mechanism to regulate schisms, though.

[Stabbity]

Based on what Delvin and I have talked about, you declare a sect before schisming. Lords/Knights who are members of the sect will likely have their temples and followers follow them in a schism.

[Chenier]

Based on what Delvin and I have talked about, you declare a sect before schisming. Lords/Knights who are members of the sect will likely have their temples and followers follow them in a schism.

Temples follow their lords? What about temples in regions without lords? What about temples built and enlarged but no longer "governed" by the same faction of lord? Lords don't get to enlarge or shrink temples, why would they get to decide changes of affiliation?

[Stabbity]

Because Lords build the temples and the people have a tendency to listen to their Lord. However, it is not set, its a mechanic still very much in the works. Also Lords can't enlarge/shrink because they lack the knowhow to properly consecrate such an undertaking, as per game text.

[Indirik]

The whole schism thing is not yet detailed or written down. It's not anything that will be done soon, so any details at this point would be so preliminary that they might as well just be vague ideas.

However, internal divisions like this would be a possible solution for adding schisms to the religious game. I have often wondered how you could do a religion that has multiple gods, and have some official way for nobles to declare their devotion to a specific god, without having have a completely separate, parallel rank structures for each god. And even then, you get the problem of one god having higher-ranked ranks than another, when you may not want that. Adding an "affiliation" specification to nobles and temples could achieve this. Not sure how hard it would be, but on the surface it doesn't appear to be too difficult, if it was kept basic. For example, have internal factions and align nobles and temples to those factions. When a schism is declared by the leader of that faction (highest ranking priest of that faction?) then all nobles/temples of that faction become part of the new religion. You'd have to add various checks and balances, to make sure that obviously ridiculous things don't happen, such as a low-ranking priests declaring a schism that includes 90% of the temples, or some such. Obviously requires a lot of fleshing out, but it could be interesting.

[Draco Tanos]

I would favor that concept, though I think there should be an element similar to join rebellion/loyalists within the area that is seeking to break off.  Especially since priests would have to go warrior to rejoin their old faith and become a priest again.

[Perth]

I'm pretty sure that a whole lot of other religions have their own divisions as well...

Example, for the greek pantheon, you could have some temples to Athena, some temples to Zeus, some to Artemis, etc. It's still the same religion.

I gave the catholic example, that doesn't mean that subdivisions of a faith is a purely catholic thing...

Indeed... essentially every major religion has sects, divisions, etc.

Protestantism has hundreds, Islam is divided into two major camps and many smaller ones, Catholicism has geographical subsets and so does Orthodoxy, Buddihism and Hinduism both have their obvious regional divisions, etc.

In no way would the feature Chenier suggested be some kind of "Catholic" game feature for religions.