Ease buying regions a little

[Stue (DC)]

Set your estate to production and prepare yourself for regular policework. It shouldn't be that hard if you are diligent. With level 2+ walls, a unit of 100+ archers or (even better) MI should be able to manage against almost anything monsterish, unless it comes in the form of multiple units.

As for boredom, hey - people play solo strategy games all the time. Plus, people might show up to join you, you never know.

trying to make fair assumption, i mentioned that it would not be impossible that someone tries on its own, alone, but i doubt that would succeed for more than couple of days, and would not hurt anyone.

my main idea of such easing is that 3-4 players could make i-c team and have at least slight chance to form realm aside from colony takeover.

that way, those who are neither ooc gang nor part of carved-in-stone establishment would have some chance to create something new.

succeed or fail, in my view there is no difference, playing i-c is all difference.

[Anaris]

Too often "Battlemaster is supposed to be a team game" really means "Battlemaster has a few leaders and you are expected to follow them"

Don't be stupid.

Don't like the leaders you have to choose from?

Become a leader yourself.

[Jens Namtrah]

You mean like, wander off to a city and buy it?

maybe I don't WANT to be a leader. Maybe I just want to EXIST, and interact with characters around me, and sometimes help them, and sometimes ask them for help, and sometimes just write and share my own story.

Sometimes I'll be on a team, and sometimes I won't. Not so hard a concept, is it?

[Telrunya]

Sounds like Adventurer is what you want.

[Anaris]

You mean like, wander off to a city and buy it?

That's not being a leader.  That's just deciding to go play your own game.

maybe I don't WANT to be a leader. Maybe I just want to EXIST, and interact with characters around me, and sometimes help them, and sometimes ask them for help, and sometimes just write and share my own story.

Sometimes I'll be on a team, and sometimes I won't. Not so hard a concept, is it?

If you want to write and share your own story, you're welcome to do that.  That's what the RP board is for.

If you want to play BattleMaster with the rest of us, then accept that you will need help to found a new realm.

I can 99.999% guarantee you that there will never, ever be any features added or tweaks made that make it easier for you to go off and found a realm all by yourself.  Or in any other way isolate yourself and play your own separate game.

BattleMaster is meant to be played as a team.  Don't want to play on a team? That's OK, we can't stop you, and you can probably come up with some fun stories, but don't expect to get any support doing it.

[Jens Namtrah]

I can 99.999% guarantee you that there will never, ever be any features added or tweaks made that make it easier for you to go off and found a realm all by yourself. 

of course you won't. because you've decided it doesn't fit your version of how you want the game played, and you write the code these days.

"There are rules and game mechanics simply to prevent or discourage people from have freedom to act out their characters in their own style."

---

Or in any other way isolate yourself and play your own separate game.

this shows that you still have your habit of skipping over what people are saying so that you can dash off another post as fast as possible. How is creating a new realm isolating yourself or playing a separate game? We are discussing using EXISTING game mechanics, but lightening the restrictions a little. "A person can create a meaningful roleplay in a realm without always being a follower on a team. If you wander off somewhere and start a new realm, as this thread is about, you don't block that event out from everyone and everything around you. "

You don't even read and think about what people are saying to you in these discussions.

Figure out your player retention problem yet? I was really shocked when I came back to Atamara.

[Anaris]

Figure out your player retention problem yet? I was really shocked when I came back to Atamara.

Our player retention problem is because of a number of factors, including needing to be more understandable and accessible to newbies, needing to overhaul the mentorship system, and needing to overhaul the estate system.

It has nothing to do with the fact that you can't go out into the middle of nowhere and set up a new realm by spending huge amounts of family gold.

[Geronus]

Too often "Battlemaster is supposed to be a team game" really means "Battlemaster has a few leaders and you are expected to follow them"

Have you ever tried being one of those leaders yourself? If you don't like following, stand up and lead - there's no monopoly on leadership. I don't understand why the existing colony mechanics are not good enough. You want a colony? Then become a leader and make it happen. It's incredibly rewarding if you can pull it off, because it isn't easy. That doesn't mean that it's impossible though.

From a roleplaying perspective, Battlemaster is also a team game; as you rightly pointed out, nothing exists in a vacuum. Roleplaying in BM is an act of collaborative storytelling, which means that you *still* have to work with other players in order to accomplish anything meaningful, unless of course you're one of those types that likes to write small novels about what his character is doing independently of any other characters. It seems to me that you are saying that you want all the success of accomplishing things and creating roleplays without allowing other players to participate in the act of creation. That just isn't what BM is about (in my opinion).

[Anaris]

Have you ever tried being one of those leaders yourself? If you don't like following, stand up and lead - there's no monopoly on leadership. I don't understand why the existing colony mechanics are not good enough. You want a colony? Then become a leader and make it happen. It's incredibly rewarding if you can pull it off, because it isn't easy. That doesn't mean that it's impossible though.

From a roleplaying perspective, Battlemaster is also a team game; as you rightly pointed out, nothing exists in a vacuum. Roleplaying in BM is an act of collaborative storytelling, which means that you *still* have to work with other players in order to accomplish anything meaningful, unless of course you're one of those types that likes to write small novels about what his character is doing independently of any other characters. It seems to me that you are saying that you want all the success of accomplishing things and creating roleplays without allowing other players to participate in the act of creation. That just isn't what BM is about (in my opinion).

Smart man.  I give him a cookie

[Geronus]

my main idea of such easing is that 3-4 players could make i-c team and have at least slight chance to form realm aside from colony takeover.

that way, those who are neither ooc gang nor part of carved-in-stone establishment would have some chance to create something new.

succeed or fail, in my view there is no difference, playing i-c is all difference.

Well, if you can get 3-4 characters together what's stopping you from getting more and making a standard colony attempt? I just don't accept your premise that OOC connections are the only way to organize a successful colony. Astrum certainly didn't start that way - it was founded by 7 characters. Only 3-4 more than the 3-4 you already have, and look what it became.

[Indirik]

of course you won't. because you've decided it doesn't fit your version of how you want the game played

Part of the idea of playing a game, is playing that game within the context of the framework given to you by that game. BattleMaster has a framework. It is not a completely free-form, pure-text, no-rules roleplaying game. You need to fit what you do within that framework as defined by the game's designers.
 
If what you want to do does not lay within that framework, then you have a couple choices:

• You can modify what you want to do so that it does fit within that framework.
• You can do something else.
• You can obstinately continue to try and do what you want, while complaining loudly that it can't be done.

Tom has been quite adamant that striking out on your own, unsupported, without the aid of existing, established realms, is not what the game is about. I.e., it's not part of the framework of the game. You have to live with that. Does it it slightly limit what you can do? Yes, it does.

Besides which, there are plenty of realms out there that are willing to help a dedicated group of nobles found their own realm. Will you have to abide by some of their restrictions? Of course. (Well, at least *claim* to be willing to follow their restrictions, to get their support long enough to get established enough to survive on your own.) But there's that "playing within the framework" thing again. Because not only does what you do affect them, what they do affects you, too! And what you constantly seem to be trying to do is completely avoid the effects that other players' actions have on you, while still being able to affect them.

It doesn't work like that. It's a two-way street. And that's the nature of a multi-player game vs. a single-player game. You're not operating in a vacuum. But from over here, it sure looks like you want to be.

[Stue (DC)]

Well, if you can get 3-4 characters together what's stopping you from getting more and making a standard colony attempt? I just don't accept your premise that OOC connections are the only way to organize a successful colony. Astrum certainly didn't start that way - it was founded by 7 characters. Only 3-4 more than the 3-4 you already have, and look what it became.

i never said that ooc connection was the only way to organize colony.

3-4 men without needing to form colony, but creating completely new realm has nothing to do with isolating yourself.

as i mentioned several times, main difference is that colony, if properly played, retains firm vassal relation for very long period of time, and can hardly create new political dynamics.

my whole idea rotates around creating more dynamics, someone could try to abuse this option for himself, trying one-man game, but it would fail so certainly that i think there is really no need to prevent it by pre-emtpive blockade.

even more interestingly, few weeks ago i witnessed one-man attempt of colony takeover, so even colonies do not prevent isolated attempts, therefore i do not see valid argument against the proposal.

the only difference proposed measure would create is that now and than completely new political power would be formed, independent of any existing political structures, and i really believe that would add to game quality.

[Anaris]

i never said that ooc connection was the only way to organize colony.

3-4 men without needing to form colony, but creating completely new realm has nothing to do with isolating yourself.

as i mentioned several times, main difference is that colony, if properly played, retains firm vassal relation for very long period of time, and can hardly create new political dynamics.

If you want to create a colony that has no tie to the mother realm (which is exactly what you are describing)...

Then find a way to do it with a CTO.

The features requested here are not going to be added.  Period.  We have explained the reasons over and over.  They simply do not fit into the vision for what BattleMaster is supposed to be.

If you don't like it, then I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you.

[Stue (DC)]

If you want to create a colony that has no tie to the mother realm (which is exactly what you are describing)...

Then find a way to do it with a CTO.

The features requested here are not going to be added.  Period.  We have explained the reasons over and over.  They simply do not fit into the vision for what BattleMaster is supposed to be.

If you don't like it, then I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you.

that is exactly opposite to what I was describing, I clearly proposed that option should be alternative to colony, so it is not colony, it is something like adventurous group of men with noble blood came to claim the region that is in anarchy, so has nobody with noble blood to oppose it: in general any noble could be able to set himself above peasants.

btw, such a hostile tone in something which is aimed to be discussion, cuts any will to initiate discussion, present different idea, and sadly resembles similar causes of silence in game.

though at times i read wiki a lot, i never found "a vision" of how new realms should be formed.

on similar note, can you present me any scenario where buying region would be attractive i-c option?

i see little sense in all of that - lot of effort is invested for new features to be developed, than that features are not used at all, and feedback with ideas about them is cut-off harshly.

[Anaris]

What you want is exactly the same thing as a colony: a realm formed out of a region that is not adjacent to the parent realm.

The only difference in what you want is that you don't want it to be related to the parent realm.

That is a RP difference, not a mechanics one.

What you are requesting has been denied multiple times by Tom, and clear reasons have been given for it, multiple times, politely.  Just because it's your pet feature request doesn't make it special and something that we have to implement or the game will come crashing down around our ears.