the conflict looming

[Geronus]

And how'd that work out for OG in comparison to Thalmarkin? =P

Not very well at all if memory serves. OG really got saved by the beginning of the invasion and ended up benefiting from it immensely.

[Chenier]

Not very well at all if memory serves. OG really got saved by the beginning of the invasion and ended up benefiting from it immensely.

OG siding with Sint did earn them a (continued) beating.

But now OG looks as strong as Sint is, and no doubt they could convince their neighbours to help them out if they wanted. An easy war with there, for justice, and for the survival of Beluaterra by eliminating those most likely to ally with the daimons and cause us all our dooms.

[Lorgan]

Not very well at all if memory serves. OG really got saved by the beginning of the invasion and ended up benefiting from it immensely.

Memory serves you well. OG lost two duchies in that war, Thalmarkin gained 1. But of course, the invasion changed things... Thalmarkin lost 3 duchies, OG gained 2. Still, one of the best invasions ever in my opinion. It had me sitting at the edge of my seat practically the whole time wondering whether my realms and humanity as a whole would survive. :)

But that aside, I don't think Sint was the only realm to ally with daimons or any of the other invaders now, was it? ;)
Sint seems like a lightning rod used to distract us from the sins of other realms.

[Draco Tanos]

Of course.  The one realm who also has a history of siding with the daimons is usually among the first to call for Sint's blood.  Right, Chénier?

[Chenier]

Of course.  The one realm who also has a history of siding with the daimons is usually among the first to call for Sint's blood.  Right, Chénier?

Are you talking about Enweil? Because Enweil only allied them to fight the monsters, and never fought against any human realms.

Sint, on the other hand, allied with the daimons to kiss their asses, and did not fight any invading forces. Not comparable.

Enweil also did not ally the daimons in the invasion before that, and especially did not worship them as Sint did.

[Tan dSerrai]

Well, Enweil certainly /did/ ally with the daimons...and Enweil was both getting ready to attack a human realm and gave its support to Fronen/Bara'Khur when they did. Their reason was 'stop attacking the daimons or we will kill you'.

I admit that the points of distinction between Enweilian alliances and Sint's during the last invasion are a bit too fine for me to allow to call for the destruction of one realm and the view of the other as potential saviour....   ;)

[Geronus]

Well, Enweil certainly /did/ ally with the daimons...and Enweil was both getting ready to attack a human realm and gave its support to Fronen/Bara'Khur when they did. Their reason was 'stop attacking the daimons or we will kill you'.

I admit that the points of distinction between Enweilian alliances and Sint's during the last invasion are a bit too fine for me to allow to call for the destruction of one realm and the view of the other as potential saviour....   ;)

Ahem. Fronen never attacked a human realm during the invasion.

[Chenier]

Enweil, Fronen, Bara'Khur, and Avalon did not attack any human realms during the invasion, get your facts straight.

And I wouldn't call fighting an invader during the whole invasion while another did not a "fine detail". Sint only ditched the daimons when they thought they found an invulnerable weapon, the Light, and their reactions after the undead stomp that followed clearly proved their act was not altruistic at all.

[Geronus]

Enweil, Fronen, Bara'Khur, and Avalon did not attack any human realms during the invasion, get your facts straight.

And I wouldn't call fighting an invader during the whole invasion while another did not a "fine detail". Sint only ditched the daimons when they thought they found an invulnerable weapon, the Light, and their reactions after the undead stomp that followed clearly proved their act was not altruistic at all.

Well, BK at least did send an army after Creasur... I can't quite recall whether they actually ended up fighting Hetland or not, but the intent was definitely there.

[Zakilevo]

Bara'Khur didn't really fight. Daimons have already destroyed the city by the time BK arrived.

[Sypher]

What about Hetland? The Daimons destroyed Hetland but I recall Hetland's neighbors were either going to attack or did attack them.

[Chenier]

What about Hetland? The Daimons destroyed Hetland but I recall Hetland's neighbors were either going to attack or did attack them.

The threats never materialized.

The threats were because of the allegations about how all these human sacrifices were empowering the Servants to sinister ends. Considering they picked the turncoat/daimon-worshiping Sint, the douchebaggish Hetland, and the passive Riombara who sat out for most of the invasion as the three realms that were "pure", it's of little surprise that Enweil and her friends had little trust in them. Hetland was offered to no longer be attacked if they stopped feeding the Servants. Threats were made after Hetland refused to stop giving their blood to empower the Servants. But the Servants left soon afterwards, and the daimons killed them. No human realm attacked Hetland. If they weren't so stupid, they would have accepted our mediation and would still have been alive.

I'm happy they were, though.

[Lorgan]

You could say the same thing about Mesh and Heen, too stupid to sell their souls to the daimons. It's what Sint thinks after every invasion.

Also, Riombara passive? More monsters died at Riombaran hands than at the hands of Enweilian armies marching together with daimons, on the battlefield plus with the power of the Light. Their assault after the construction of the Temple of the Light cost them almost 100k CS, before that we held Grehk against an overwhelming monster force. Alone.
But what did you expect, that we'd leave our city state to defend you and risk losing our armies to your daimon allies in the process?
We may not have allied with any of the invaders, but we're not THAT stupid either.

[Iltaran]

You know, having read this thread, its suprising that war didn't break out months ago.

[Chenier]

You could say the same thing about Mesh and Heen, too stupid to sell their souls to the daimons. It's what Sint thinks after every invasion.

Also, Riombara passive? More monsters died at Riombaran hands than at the hands of Enweilian armies marching together with daimons, on the battlefield plus with the power of the Light. Their assault after the construction of the Temple of the Light cost them almost 100k CS, before that we held Grehk against an overwhelming monster force. Alone.
But what did you expect, that we'd leave our city state to defend you and risk losing our armies to your daimon allies in the process?
We may not have allied with any of the invaders, but we're not THAT stupid either.

I would not count the kills of the Light as Riombaran kills at all. Because the Light considered the realm sitting on its ass to be more "pure" than the realm fighting tooth and nail the monsters.

Our alliance with the daimons was just to fight the Monsters. Rio could easily have done the same, if it wanted. That's what Enweil's allies did, to make sure they could join in the fight fully against the monsters.

Mesh and Heen isn't the same story as Hetland at all. They pissed off the daimons too much prior to the invasion for anything they did during the invasion to change that. They fought knowing they would die, but believing in their cause. Hetland fought thinking the Light made them invulnerable. Time has shown that they did not know honour, they were just fighting out of pride and for the misguided belief that they would gain from it. A sacrifice is only honourable when its planned. If you are convinced you are survive and end up dying, then there's little honour in that, as it was never your intention to risk your life for others.

What did Enweil want of Rio? That you at least attack Meridian Republic, if nothing else. They were feeding and sustaining the monster armies, and you complacently sat next to them as they fueled the war against Enweil and Avalon.

Riombara also accepted peace with the monsters before accepting peace with Enweil. Enweil offered military aid in the South when the monsters attacked, but it was rejected with insults.