Stuff about Battlemaster I enjoy.

[Victor C]

Aww that's a pity. Well at least I didn't have no support, there are two other rebels...

Oh a figure of speech. Anyways I got some experience from this, it sure was fun planning out stuff!

Hic Sunt Leones,

During a planning of rebellion, I typically do not seek out people by tapping someone in the shoulder and asking them to join. You have to be a bit more clever than that, you have people that want to benefit by looking good for spoiling a rebellion and you have Constantine who believes because you are old, you are obviously savvy and more worthy! (His ideal is not shared by me, but by others no doubt)

Don't let the harsh words bring you down, experience is a good thing. I couldn't have stabbed a ruler if I didn't know that 100 soldiers is a death trap for infiltrators. This is just another story for your character or something to think back upon.

"Do not insult my intelligence" isn't a saying... it is a defensive phrase. Hence the command "Do not insult!" Is in the phrase, accompanied by "my" stating "Do not insult me!" With a direct object of "intelligence" leading to "Do not insult my intelligence."

You did not insult his intelligence and I don't know why he thinks you were lying to him (this is an OOC discussion, there is no reason to lie), but meh.

[JDodger]

wasn't katrina protested out of office, not rebelled against?

licinius, what you need to remember is that no matter how good your ideas are from your perspective, there will always be another perspective that disagrees. you can't force your perspective on others especially if the majority is against it. you can certainly argue your perspective or try to gain support thru various means, but it is unfair to the other players in a realm to simply hijack the realm for your own purposes - no matter how good you see your purposes as being.

this is something that mayhem doesn't get, his MO is hijacking realms and look how far that usually takes him. and Im saying this as someone who likes both your ideas and what i understand of most of his ideas.

as constantine mentioned, there is something to be said for mature and stable leadership. most players have at some point seen "new" leadership come in with promises of new and fun things for the players of a realm, only to botch it up because they actually dont know what they are doing or the proper steps to get to their goals. heck there are players who have played the game for years, had multiple council positions and still dont get basic mechanics of what theyre doing. the game has become small enough now that most players arent willing to risk their limited fun time on unproven leaders.

on the flip side of that, the potential for stagnation does become increased, and we have indeed seen many realms over the years where entrenched leadership did not make proper efforts to make their realms fun for the players in them.

as i mentioned before rebellions are very difficult, you need absolutely overwhelming support for them to succeed and stick. if you did not get that support and still don't like where the realm is headed, you should look for another realm. its not worth banging your head against the wall if the other players dont want the changes you want.

[Vita`]

wasn't katrina protested out of office, not rebelled against?

Possibly both? It is possible for someone to take the throne in a high-protest situation to win a rebellion. That is, if you launch a rebellion against a ruler and the ruler loses office, you win the rebellion. So if you know/have-high-confidence that the ruler will be protested out and can launch a rebellion before that happens, you win easily without the need for prolonged conflict. Of course, you cannot launch a rebellion against an empty throne. And of course you have to be somewhat-ready, having enough people in the Underground, being within realm borders to launch a rebellion, probably some other items I forget...

I endorse everything else Jdodger wrote about considering the other players in the realm and their engagement (there have been rebellions that pissed people off OOCly when it came out of left-field with no warning, on the flip side, too much warning and you shoot yourself in the foot; its a tough line), though with perhaps a bit more emphasis on there being Stagnant Ruling Cliques that *do* need rebelled against in an effort to liven up the realm.

[GundamMerc]

Possibly both? It is possible for someone to take the throne in a high-protest situation to win a rebellion. That is, if you launch a rebellion against a ruler and the ruler loses office, you win the rebellion. So if you know/have-high-confidence that the ruler will be protested out and can launch a rebellion before that happens, you win easily without the need for prolonged conflict. Of course, you cannot launch a rebellion against an empty throne. And of course you have to be somewhat-ready, having enough people in the Underground, being within realm borders to launch a rebellion, probably some other items I forget...

I endorse everything else Jdodger wrote about considering the other players in the realm and their engagement (there have been rebellions that pissed people off OOCly when it came out of left-field with no warning, on the flip side, too much warning and you shoot yourself in the foot; its a tough line), though with perhaps a bit more emphasis on there being Stagnant Ruling Cliques that *do* need rebelled against in an effort to liven up the realm.

It was both, the rebellion happened, and then the Ruler was protested out.

[JDodger]

which is game mechanic wise a far easier way to win a rebellion.

thanks vita, you gold mine of information you. too bad my rebelling days appear to be behind me.

[Ketchum]

Speaking from my experiences of being in countless Rebellions.

- Always get General on your side. Why you may ask? Because he can disband the militia in capital city, and allowing your small rebel force to succeed. And with the small base of players nowadays, this is a critical part.

- As some players have attested, you need 3-5 players (I can't remember what is the exact number) underground before you declare rebellion.

- In order to gather supporters of your rebellion, always on look out for those nobles and troop leaders who are at odds with the current Ruler and existing leaderships. Take notes on what are their motivations, what you can promise to them, for example titles(Who don't like titles, raise up your hands). What are your objectives and can you align them with your fellow would-be rebels?

Finally some corrections about Morek Empire rebellion. Katrina was protested out of office by that Terran group. Afterwards the same group declared rebellion against the new Ruler after Katrina. I feel they are being hasty when Mayhem declared Rebellion as most of their group are outside capital, what use Mayhem was General when he did not disband militia. We were beaten by militia at capital as a result of that. Luckily one of them had sense to request my character to join in the rebellion, for she knew she won't succeed without loyal Morek nobles.

[Vita`]

- Always get General on your side. Why you may ask? Because he can disband the militia in capital city, and allowing your small rebel force to succeed. And with the small base of players nowadays, this is a critical part.

The lord of the capital can also disband militia. But the nice thing about General, is they can command all the potential loyalists far away from the capital while the rebels are 'refitting' in the capital.

- As some players have attested, you need 3-5 players (I can't remember what is the exact number) underground before you declare rebellion.

Its proportional upon the noble of nobility in the realm. 3-5 players is for the smallest of realms. Realms with enough nobles in them require much more, like say ten.

- In order to gather supporters of your rebellion, always on look out for those nobles and troop leaders who are at odds with the current Ruler and existing leaderships. Take notes on what are their motivations, what you can promise to them, for example titles(Who don't like titles, raise up your hands). What are your objectives and can you align them with your fellow would-be rebels?

While knowing the mechanics is important (and not knowing them can screw you), this soft-sciences people element is absolutely crucial because BattleMaster is a social game.

[Licinius]

Thank you all for your gold mines of information! I'll be sure to keep them in mind. I just learnt how to quote!

During a planning of rebellion, I typically do not seek out people by tapping someone in the shoulder and asking them to join. You have to be a bit more clever than that.

Cough* I did exactly that... I tapped someone on the shoulder and gave the player a few reasons why the player should support a rebellion.
I did try to be more clever after reading your post, I approached a priestess and offered a monopoly of her religion,I would close down all temples to other religions except the player's, if both the player and player's followers join me into rebellion. (that backfired as well...)

Licinius, what you need to remember is that no matter how good your ideas are from your perspective, there will always be another perspective that disagrees. you can't force your perspective on others especially if the majority is against it. you can certainly argue your perspective or try to gain support thru various means, but it is unfair to the other players in a realm to simply hijack the realm for your own purposes - no matter how good you see your purposes as being.

Ah! There's a saying, "There is always two* sides of a coin" I suppose all that is true. I just wanted to avoid stagnation and inactivity by launching something big and fun, I learnt that during my time in East Island, War brings nobles and activity which will revive the realm.
The Democracy idea was just to help new nobles gain positions more often rather than just once in a blue moon however as Constantine typed, Oldies will just get elected over and over again as they are more experienced and tested. Not to mention the shrinking player base.
Reading this paragraph again, it seems quite evil...

Vita,

Hehe that was my plan.
1) Become General.
2) Order all loyalist to move somewhere far on the pretence of incoming hordes of monsters.
3) Rebels will stay behind at the Capital on the pretence of refitting.
4) Disband all militia in Capital.
5) Start rebellion and TO the Capital without a single drop of blood shed.

Well that failed at the first step

The deed has been done, word has gotten out and my rebellion failed before it could even walk.
The next few turns will be certainly interesting, I can't wait!
On the side note, it appears the king is willing to have a compromise by keeping General and Judge positions electable perhaps even the banker.

I'm starting to feel bad at what I have done, darn I had plans for a roleplay on my unique item "Radiating Helm of the Kings" I wanted to write something like.

 Madding Licinius screamed out in pain as he desperately clutched his head with both hands. The "Radiating Helm of the Kings" appears to glow brightly for a split second before subsiding into a fainter but still noticeable glow, at this point, Madding Licinius had already calmed down and seemed fine however on closer inspection of his eyes. Madness and Mayhem(Haha a joke! Yeah...I'll walk myself out) danced around the surface of his eyes.

The "Radiating Helm of the Kings" has overtaken Madding Licinius's mind,body and soul!   
Madding Licinus then muttered to himself perhaps to the wind. Aurvandil, my name is Aurvandil.

Hic Sunt Leones,

[Constantine]

"Do not insult my intelligence" isn't a saying... it is a defensive phrase. Hence the command "Do not insult!" Is in the phrase, accompanied by "my" stating "Do not insult me!" With a direct object of "intelligence" leading to "Do not insult my intelligence."

Oh wow. 
In reality it is simply an euphemistic way to say "only a dumb person would believe that".

You have to be a bit more clever than that, you have people that want to benefit by looking good for spoiling a rebellion and you have Constantine who believes because you are old, you are obviously savvy and more worthy!

More worthy? Definitely never claimed that.
Savvy? Yeah. Not because you somehow get smarter, you simply get to know the realm's key players better, understand their motives, are able to tell friend from foe and dangerous courtiers from simpletons.
Our young friend here had no idea what he was doing, he had no plan, no allies and really nothing to offer to potential supporters. Unlike his old savvy opposition.

Aww that's a pity. Well at least I didn't have no support, there are two other rebels...

Food for thought: at least one rebel is ALWAYS a spy. You do the math. 

[Licinius]

one rebel is ALWAYS a spy. You do the math. 

I was contemplating the possibility of a spy however I couldn't do anything about it. After all It wouldn't be good to start pointing fingers at either of them.

I also didn't reveal my name to either of them.

Hic Sunt Leones,

[Constantine]

Yeah, my point was that you were in fact the only real rebel.
I'm not at all against rebellions and did rebel myself. You just need to put more thought and effort in your next rebellion.

[Vita`]

The deed has been done, word has gotten out and my rebellion failed before it could even walk.

To re-emphasize what Constantine said earlier, unfortunately some will use OOC info ICly, whether consciously or unconsciously. So its often recommended to keep things close to your chest, especially shenanigans seen as 'troublesome' like rebellions and secessions (damn you spellcheck and your red squiggly line telling me this word cannot be used plurally - Ack! Plurally too? Update your dictionary, spellcheck!), when they are most-active and recent, only telling the 'rest of the story', after events have cooled for a bit, in wiki on forum for posterity.

[Licinius]

Constantine,

Thank you, I will definitely try again. Next time with more planning and effort along with what I have learnt in this thread from so many other players.

Vita,

Oh sorry, I didn't know. It won't happen again, at least I hope I won't make the same mistake again.

Hic Sunt Leones,

[Vita`]

No need to apologize, just some helpful words.

[Gabanus family]

Constantine,

Thank you, I will definitely try again. Next time with more planning and effort along with what I have learnt in this thread from so many other players.

Vita,

Oh sorry, I didn't know. It won't happen again, at least I hope I won't make the same mistake again.

Hic Sunt Leones,

Like it was said before, there are some ways to rebel and I've done several of them. The become General is a very good one, or get an active General to support you. Typically those are well respected people as well in a realm. The sending away loyal forces for the rebellion is smart, but can get you into trouble with the neutral parties who feel somewhat upset that you also put them with the loyalists and didn't tell them of your plan. In Sartania I had a difficult time after my rebellion to get everyone on the same path again.

The other is to voice dissent in public. If there is something you do not like, become vocal about it and see which nobles join you in this. In this way you gain respect while not being the rebel, but rather seen as contributing towards the realm. If you play this game well you get enough supporters to strike when dissent is high enough. You begin with 1 or 2 huge things and after a while you bitch about every little thing the ruler does (or doesn't), which I found rather effective as well in my time in Caergoth

Good luck, just never try such shenanigans in Oligarch hehe :p