Really Eponlynn?

[Gabanus family]

I can confirm that Catherine was the first to propose mercy on Perdan, supported heavily then by Garas in Sirion and Ecthelion as well (both because I wasn't a fan of realm destruction and because it would speed up the process of getting Oligarch :p).

As to my remarks, yes they were about the situation before the Perdan City thing and even before the looting. Actually in the beginning Oligarch never demanded Krimml for that, only to keep Greatbridge and Commonyr (and maybe Braga) and Oligarch City and to have Sirion recognize those claims. Oligarch only demanded Krimml during the time that Sirion was getting its ass kicked and they were looking for an opportunity to resettle. But yes, Oligarch did somewhat overstretch it's grasp there (or better said, I did) but the majority of the process, which was for months, we were not making such harsh demands at all and were trying to help Eponllyn, being refused constantly by Sirion. It was only at the end that this was done pretty much.

And Chamberlain, you're not making such decisions without me right? :p Catherine leaving (prob with Goran) would just end up in a completely messed up Garas xD

But yeah, should Oligarch fall I'm not really sure if I'll continue and if so, how tbh.

[Chamberlain]

Read Catherine's last roleplay... she's going nowhere lol

[Chamberlain]

Also just looking back at Gara's post... as I remember we held all the lands surrounding Krimml by right of conquest when the deals were being discussed between Sirion and Oligarch to come to Eponllyns aid.   

Sirion demanded the return of Montijo and Braga so that they could access Krimml as a point from which to launch their armies without setting foot in Oligan territories. This made no sense as they would still need to traverse our territorries to get to the Eponllyn lands, so as I recall it was then that the request for Krimml was made.

If we were at peace in order to fight another realm they could have traveled our lands... and since we proposed an alliance with the request for Krimml they could have launched from Oligarch and used our smiths etc.

It's all moot but there is far more to history than a few jaded perspectives, read all the sides and find something in the middle and you are as like as not still going to be wrong, but at least you'll be nearer to the truth.

[Vita`]

EC's history will not be reset in any fashion other than players doing what was done on the Colonies.

[Wimpie]

EC's history will not be reset in any fashion other than players doing what was done on the Colonies.

We realize that. ::)

[Vita`]

i dont see any perdan players getting this worked up, even though other players, including ones that have no current or recent problem with perdan

And when Atanamir was harassing Deytheir and Dobromir, it was not Atanamir getting worked up either.

Let those play who enjoy... most vocal Atamara sinkers were those who didnt play there.

And how many vocal Atamara sinkers no longer played there because of Atamaran attitudes, and how many left the game *before* Atamara was sunk? A game cannot be sustainable if a hegemony prevents any interaction beyond them crushing you ad nauseum until another player is too frustrated to play further.

I just see so much bickering about history and who did what wrong on these forums that I was thinking about the suggestion I made.

This is inevitable, to some degree.

I agree with Jaune that those that do not enjoy playing, could join another continent. And I'm rather sure they will, too.

Part of the problem I think is the attitude that 'if you do not like it our way, then you do not get to play on our island at all', somewhat reminiscent of older CE attitudes that brought Atamara to what it is. Who do you play with if you're continually pushing others off the island?

[Vita`]

I am no lover of Perdan as a concept, but in reality at least they try something different.

Not sure what you see different, as my perspective has them being their same old selves.

What I find sad in the Eponllyn situation is that, as I have said, they were a realm not afraid to be individuals who are now falling into the block...

We held out through a lot of odds. I think most of the attitude change is a result of the loss of the old guard's influence between Siana, Garas, Myrnia, and Jeroen (I think Myrnia is around still, but not as engaged) departing. List of names not exhaustive, just representative.

If we are going to rake over the last war I would also say that Eponllyn were not the drivers for peace with Perdan... they got on board before Sirion, but it was Nivemus who pushed for peace, as I'm sure you will remember Vita, Catherine was slated and slandered for not wanting to crush Perdan from many sides including many of the more actives of Eponllyn, so please don't try to make out that you were such a generous realm pushing to give them peace. Garin got that a dead Perdan left no counter weight to Sirion so came on board, but he certainly didn't instigate.

Now that you bring it up, I do remember that Catherine got a lot of slack and controversy standing up for Perdan. But I would not say that 'Eponllyn were not the drivers for peace' because internally, there was definitely a pro-survival movement just as much as ther was a *very* anti-Perdanite hateful element within Nivemus. Nivemus was no shining star in the campaign for peace either. Considering Perdan's history, I think we can both agree that Nivemus and Eponllyn were bitterly divided internally on the matter. My character was the most-supportive of Perdan's survival after Fionna was elected after Meivmayr. During Meivmayr, Jeroen was open, but skeptical. Garin was always a very calculated, neutral king in his policy statements. Most of how Eponllyn ran was that either the realm or advisors discussed a matter and he would somehow come out with a very representative-solution from the nobility's interests. I rarely saw Garin put up his own opinion besides certain character virtues/values he expected Eponlli to uphold. Or at least, thats the way I interpreted his character.

Whats more it was well known the minute that deal was signed ensured that there would be a war between Eponllyn and Perdan at some stage, they would never accept the loss of their namesake city.

Because Perdan must always have it both ways, their way.

[Anaris]

Part of the problem I think is the attitude that 'if you do not like it our way, then you do not get to play on our island at all', somewhat reminiscent of older CE attitudes that brought Atamara to what it is. Who do you play with if you're continually pushing others off the island?

I'd like to reinforce this.

This is not a competitive game. You get no prize for "winning." You get no praise for forcing people to do things your way.

It is in each and every player's best interests to ensure that the other players in the game are enjoying what is happening. That doesn't mean that people should stop trying to win warsâ€"but it does mean that that should not be the focus of your existence.

If a whole bunch of people are telling you that what you're doing is upsetting and negatively affecting their overall experience playing the game, that doesn't mean you should entrench further and just ask your buddies who are doing it with you if they still think it's OK. It means you should stop and try to see it from their point of view. Really, seriously think about what you're doing, and, though it's a very hard thing to do sometimes, maybe admit that your way isn't perfect.

[Wimpie]

Part of the problem I think is the attitude that 'if you do not like it our way, then you do not get to play on our island at all', somewhat reminiscent of older CE attitudes that brought Atamara to what it is. Who do you play with if you're continually pushing others off the island?

Not really what I intended to say here, but well.

[Vita`]

Also just looking back at Gara's post... as I remember we held all the lands surrounding Krimml by right of conquest when the deals were being discussed between Sirion and Oligarch to come to Eponllyns aid.

I remember this. One day, one day, I'll get everyone a new video of map histories since 2012...as I've been saying for 6 months now. Too many things...

It's all moot but there is far more to history than a few jaded perspectives

Indeed.

[Gabanus family]

Take your time, no worries :)

And concerning the remarks about Perdan City and Oligarch, there was simply no way to hold it I'm afraid. Sirion refused to sign peace at that point and we could not well take on Perdan and Vix also, or we'd be destroyed now entirely as well. Still, the latter may well happen still, but not before thousands die on the wall of Oligarch.

Problems with Eponllyn were already far before Perdan City got sieged and Garin abdicting did not help at all I think. The north is a mess now, now more than ever I'm afraid.

Where is Jeroen actually these days?

[Vita`]

And concerning the remarks about Perdan City and Oligarch, there was simply no way to hold it I'm afraid. Sirion refused to sign peace at that point and we could not well take on Perdan and Vix also, or we'd be destroyed now entirely as well. Still, the latter may well happen still, but not before thousands die on the wall of Oligarch.

Please do not twist things OOCly. You could have held it. You chose not to. That's IC politics, but lets leave it IC. Garas refused to sign peace, not Sirion. Sirion accepted, Garas demanded Krimml for ceasefire. You essentially chose to give up Perdan City in exchange for Krimml, but now you have neither.

Problems with Eponllyn were already far before Perdan City got sieged and Garin abdicting did not help at all I think. The north is a mess now, now more than ever I'm afraid.

Eppy had problems yes, but there was still opportunity.

Where is Jeroen actually these days?

Xavax, but I paused all my characters some weeks ago.

[Gabanus family]

Please do not twist things OOCly. You could have held it. You chose not to. That's IC politics, but lets leave it IC. Garas refused to sign peace, not Sirion. Sirion accepted, Garas demanded Krimml for ceasefire. You essentially chose to give up Perdan City in exchange for Krimml, but now you have neither.
Eppy had problems yes, but there was still opportunity.
Xavax, but I paused all my characters some weeks ago.

I'm twisting nothing OOC, there was no way to hold Perdan City with Perdan and Vix coming our way. The negotiations with Sirion would have gone nowhere, especially not in any near timeframe, as it is Sirion. Also Sirion demanded the return of several regions and the demanding of Krimml came after it had already been surrounded (see Chamberlain's story on this one). Perdan and Vix would have slaughtered us, that's simple and don't forget that we once had an agreement with Sirion which they broke once they switched from Ecthelion to Ivo. So there is little trust left between either parties.

And there is still opportunity for Eponllyn as I believe they've been promised Oligarch City.

And I noticed Seoras being gone, but seems you paused them all, too bad. Although I must admit that I'm leaning towards pausing more of my chars as well. Feel kinda guilty for leaving Luria Borreal with even less nobles though.

[JDodger]

realms should absolutely be destroyed because otherwise you end up in situations like these where the history is so entrenched its impossible for people to see things beyond their own jaded perspective. there needs to be a cycle of old realms dying and new ones rising up. and it doesn't require island resets, just players losing this ridiculous attitude that their realm is something precious and sacrosanct that must not be taken away or it simply ruins the entire game, wah wah.

there is an element of risk in this game that makes it more exciting than others. i dont get why so many players seem to think that eliminating that risk is a good thing.

the people who complain about perdan or any other strong realm's tactics and accuse such realms of only caring about winning need to take a good long look at themselves. if youre such a purehearted roleplayer not concerned with winning, why are you so concerned with losing? this is just something bad that happened to your character, roleplay through it. you have all sorts of layers of complexity being added to your character's story and a million ways to move forward.

also most if not all of you have been on the other side of the coin in some other realm and some of you wrote just as long essays justifying similar actions to the ones youre writing essays decrying now.

seriously smh, participation trophies for all of you

[Gabanus family]

Of course there are situations where realms should be destroyed, but at the same time I personally don't do it too quickly. So when Perdan lost the great war, I too pushed for not destroying them. But in the process we had in fact already destroyed Westmoor.

There is quite a difference though between having a fun war and ultimately someone being destroyed and the whole gang bang let's utterly crush someone and move on.