Modifying TMP Training Reductions

[Bedwyr]

I've been wondering if it would be against the rules to conduct a mock war solely for the purpose of avoiding TMP.  Probably is. ::)

Depends.  Are you arranging it OOC, player to player?  Or are you arranging it IC "We must keep the peasants in check!  We have always been at war with Oceania!" with the possibility that something will go wrong IC and the war will spiral?

[BardicNerd]

Depends.  Are you arranging it OOC, player to player?  Or are you arranging it IC "We must keep the peasants in check!  We have always been at war with Oceania!" with the possibility that something will go wrong IC and the war will spiral?

I've actually been thinking about arranging something like that IC, though my plan is to propose it to the other ruler more as a sort of grand tournament.  But first I need a way to make sure that if it spirals out of control, my realm won't get screwed.

But yeah, right now TMP is not working very well, mainly for the reasons Phellan stated, also because it happens too fast -- during Zonasa's war with Arcaea, we got hit by the penalties at least once while we were refitting, and several times just barely avoided the time cutoff for penalties -- if it hits realms that are actively fighting wars, something is wrong.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

Or are you arranging it IC "We must keep the peasants in check!  We have always been at war with Oceania!" with the possibility that something will go wrong IC and the war will spiral?

This.

[Jens Namtrah]

This. Seeing a "The people feel safe under the protection of you and your knights. Morale rises x%. Loyalty rises y%." in the daily region report if you have nice battles would probably do more to encourage fights than the current system.

Really? You are going to go to war so you can have a boost in region stats? I don't believe it for a minute.

I stand by my earlier post - the reason it isn't working is because you haven't changed your way of ruling the realm yet. Break up those 8 year old friendships, take offense more easily, let your knights have a freer hand at looting neutral realms.

When I used to play before, whenever I would complain about the gridlocked peace everywhere, people would always say, "then go start a war". Which we all knew was bull!@#$, because if you did your Ruler would just cry, "Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry - bad knight!" and ban you.

You brought TMP on yourselves. Suck it up and play through it.

[Shizzle]

Fissoa is screwed too. I don't think we can pick a fight with LN yet, and Madina is just ..out of the question. We could use an SA invasion to unite against :P

[LilWolf]

Really? You are going to go to war so you can have a boost in region stats? I don't believe it for a minute.

It was just a quick example of what the positive things to encourage war could be. Of course, that alone wouldn't be enough. Read what some others have suggested in that area.

I stand by my earlier post - the reason it isn't working is because you haven't changed your way of ruling the realm yet. Break up those 8 year old friendships, take offense more easily, let your knights have a freer hand at looting neutral realms.

When I used to play before, whenever I would complain about the gridlocked peace everywhere, people would always say, "then go start a war". Which we all knew was bull!@#$, because if you did your Ruler would just cry, "Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry - bad knight!" and ban you.

You brought TMP on yourselves. Suck it up and play through it.

You think it's ok that a realm that has nearly no capacity to actually fight a war, gets threatening notes from the game that basically boil down to "What a crappy realm you have there. Go kill yourself off in some random battle or I'll put a world of hurt on you that will ensure you'll die anyway." Gee, way to make the game fun.

The TMP code has been in the game for what, over 2 years? It has changed nothing in that time so I highly doubt it ever will. All it has done is make players hate it and cause problems where none are needed. It's a failed experiment that needs to be put down as much as some of the other failed experiments.

[Fleugs]

I stick to the point that TMP is awesome, and reminds everyone when they are part of a lame realm that is too scared to fight battles. No monsters? Go pick a fight with humans. The game is still called Battlemaster and as for as I'm concerned the goal of TMP is to "encourage" (read: force) people into picking a fight.

Perhaps getting rid of the gigantic realms, but instead creating one-city realms, might be easier? It sure as hell would give more realms, and thus more "wars".

[cjnodell]

I personally like many of the suggestions made. War is not easy. It is downright costly. Your ability to control your regions deteriorate as your lords are off fighting. Your unit expense rises doe to repairs and replacement. A system that helps mitigate some of these effects would encourage battles.

In addition to a realm bonus I would make some of the bonus to regions specific to regions. So, if Region X has a Lord and two knights, then the region will gain productivity/loyalty/authority bonuses based on how many battles it's nobles participate in. I would also suggest that the bonus granted by Lords be a higher than the bonus provided by knights. This would allow the lord/knights of a region to maintain his region either by fighting like mad or by sitting in the region and holding court or otherwise actively managing it.

I also like the idea of finding ways to reduce the costs of war. If your men are constantly and actively collecting valuables from the battlefield they would cost less to maintain while in the field. They still die though and trips back to the capital would be a good check and balance. Reducing repair costs and payments to units would certainly make any noble with a unit want to keep the battles going. I think balancing things so that you could afford a larger unit during times of way than during times of peace would be good.

I would probably keep too much peace around. As others have noted it serves as a good reminder. I think it should be less damaging though and primarily make units more expensive to maintain at large numbers. The occasional desertion might be good way of achieving this. "Your men grow weary from the lack of battle. One has deserted in search of glory elsewhere." Now you have to replace that man and train up. I would not want to extend this desertion to militia, as they are home bodies anyway, and I would keep the desertions low enough that the realm can overcome it with only some additional expense.

[fodder]

I stick to the point that TMP is awesome, and reminds everyone when they are part of a lame realm that is too scared to fight battles. No monsters? Go pick a fight with humans. The game is still called Battlemaster and as for as I'm concerned the goal of TMP is to "encourage" (read: force) people into picking a fight.

Perhaps getting rid of the gigantic realms, but instead creating one-city realms, might be easier? It sure as hell would give more realms, and thus more "wars".

get rid of realm and everyone is in a 1 city duchy?

[cjnodell]

Barca on Dwilight is a one city realm and not a terribly large one either. We are still being hit by too much peace. Not sure if reducing realm size will really combat too much peace much as it is currently implemented.

[Fleugs]

Well, you still have to go into a war to get combat... It was just an idea; if there would be more (if not all) realms with only 1 city, the political landscape would be more fractured and allow for more wars. It would be better if Ducal Independence would exist and duchies could fight one another within the realm; but for now that appears to be too much coding (and it is more complex than this one-liner).

To summarize; TMP tells you your realms exists of cowards. Get it together and go into a war, and preferably don't wait for TMP to tell you that. Or don't get into a war and live with the consequences, whatever. There were no standing armies in the middle ages so TMP kinda makes sense.

[cjnodell]

I can see this to some extent. However, it almost seems likely to put a small realm in the position of go get yourself toasted in battle or let yourself be weakened until someone comes and stomp on you. Great for senseless combat but doesn't make much sense otherwise. Especially on an SMA island.

[egamma]

Especially on an SMA island.

Only if SMA means, to you, that you don't talk to anyone and don't say anything rude and you take rude things that others say to you, then you won't get in any wars.

If, instead, you gallivant around, insulting people's appearances and taking offense at their comments, then you can easily find an excuse for a war.

[Indirik]

If, instead, you gallivant around, insulting people's appearances and taking offense at their comments, then you can easily find an excuse for a war.

I.e. if your character is an !@#$%^&.

[cjnodell]

Like I said, I am not completely against TMP. I would simply prefer to see it modified. I think desertions would be ideal.