BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Development => Topic started by: Tom on January 28, 2012, 02:27:01 PM
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Please post your feedback below. Please try to be constructive - I'm tired of whining and "I hate everything because something has changed from the way it was before" comments. I value positive feedback and constructive criticism. If you think something might be a problem, remain calm and state in neutral an specific words why you think so.
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Hey Tom,
I was trying to check the new trade system, but I can't find the new tables.
I only see the Markets Reports link but not Granary or warehouse.
I have a char that is a lord in dwilight and a banker in BT.
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I was trying to check the new trade system, but I can't find the new tables.
What is it that you are looking for?
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As duke currently not in my region I have now access only to the "market reports" for duchy and region which are clearly still empty. Is it right that there will be no way to directly assess the sizes of the stores in the various regions of the duchy anymore?
Also is it intended that when the lord is not in his region he can't see the usual table with the details of consumption/storage etc of his own region?
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My banker/lord/trader is missing the 'warehouse report' page that lists how much food each region has, how much they consume, etc.
I do have the MarketsWatch.php page, which seems to be working fine, but it doesn't have any trades listed on it yet. And I'm traveling so I can't see Market.php.
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There seem to be problems with messages too. I got the following when reporting a scout report to my whole realm in dwilight
Fatal error: Call to a member function setContact() on a non-object in /var/battlemaster/live/testing/message-write.php on line 464
page is http://battlemaster.org/testing/message-write.php
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My character was appointed Steward just now, but the 'Command' bar has not appeared. I think I need that to access my options as Steward, right?
Do we have to be in our region now to handle Food?
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"appoint steward" page text references "warehouse and trade", that should be changed to "granaries and markets" I think.
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There seem to be problems with messages too. I got the following when reporting a scout report to my whole realm in dwilight
Fatal error: Call to a member function setContact() on a non-object in /var/battlemaster/live/testing/message-write.php on line 464
page is http://battlemaster.org/testing/message-write.php
In addition to this, I also get an error on message-send.php. The page only loads halfway, and the following error appears:
"Fatal error: Call to a member function getId() on a non-object in /var/battlemaster/live/testing/message-send.php on line 131"
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Where to begin? According to the announcements, we are to read the latest sys message and ignore the rest.
Food System Upgrade (1 hour, 26 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Rettleville
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the 1036 bushels you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply of 165 bushels to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
So, I checked my command tab.
Your granaries have 0 bushels stored. This store will last you about 0 more days
My Duke isn't in Rettleville right now, so I haven't had a chance to look at the other things (besides relatively empty Markets Report page). Also, my Guild messaging system's broken. "Could not find a channel to send to" is the message I get when trying to send a message through my Guilds (Barcan Sentinel, Veinsormoot) and religion (VE). I'm fairly sure they were working this morning before I went to work. I also have the option to send messages "to - all / some nobles at the tournament". There is no tournament taking place and I get the same message (Could not find...) as with my Guilds.
For all that, I'm deeply interested to see how the new food arrangements work. Always fun :)
Finton.
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Starvation (2 hours, 16 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 3 wounded men die from starvation. 2 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (2 hours, 25 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 3 wounded men die from starvation. 2 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (2 hours, 34 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 2 wounded men die from starvation. 1 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (2 hours, 37 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 3 wounded men die from starvation. 3 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (2 hours, 52 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 3 wounded men die from starvation. 2 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (2 hours, 59 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 3 wounded men die from starvation. 4 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (3 hours, 7 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 3 wounded men die from starvation. 6 men fall ill from lack of food.
Starvation (3 hours, 43 minutes ago)
personal message
There is starvation in Barrow Peaks, and your men can't find anything to eat. 2 wounded men die from starvation. 7 men fall ill from lack of food.
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In Dwilight. I suspect it have a connection with the changes. They fell like flies
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um... i had a knight and lord in same before the change. the knight was also a steward. the knight vacated his estate this morning to check on http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6253 and somehow remained steward (insofar as he could see the warehouse, etc command links)
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after the update, the estateless knight who used to be steward and probably still is, can see most if not all the lord's commands.
clicking on return lordship, it gives the normal screen http://battlemaster.org/testing/StepDown.php?From=Commander (not going to enter reason and step down!)
was told the knight is not regionlord (or variants of) in the following links
http://battlemaster.org/testing/RegionDesc.php
http://battlemaster.org/testing/Fortify.php
http://battlemaster.org/testing/RepairFort.php
http://battlemaster.org/testing/Disband.php
http://battlemaster.org/testing/RecruitGuards.php <--- that shouldn't appear for a townsland lord anyway
http://battlemaster.org/testing/Steward.php
http://battlemaster.org/testing/armieslist.php
http://battlemaster.org/testing/ArmySponsor.php
some other links.. but not enough hours to see..
the following seems to do something
http://battlemaster.org/testing/MarketsWatch.php <- "as lord of avengmil" (which he isn't anyway. at most steward)
http://battlemaster.org/testing/PostBounties.php <-- that seems to work.. it says "as steward, etc"
http://battlemaster.org/testing/Marketplace.php <--
when trying to put down a buy 100 bushel for 30gold/100 bushel off.. i get this...
"You don't have the required 30 bonds for this offer. Maybe make a lower offer?"
character has 100+gold and no bonds on him
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Question I have (which falls in line with the above, with the noble's troops starving in a region with no food):
I used caravans not only for trade, but to carry excess food "just in case" I was stuck in a starving region, so my troops wouldn't be impacted...
If caravans have gone bye-bye, can something minor be created as paraphrenalia, so a noble can be proactive in protecting their own troops (maybe even to avoid impacting a region's food, because they already have their own)? If not called a caravan, maybe just call it a "supply wagon"... they won't be able to sell to a region (which seems to be what you want) but they can buy and store food (or heck, even loot food).
Does bring up an interesting idea though... spend 3 hours on "Forage Food" if you want to see if you can get food for yourself, into your supply wagon, but doesn't damage the region's production, and isn't considered a hostile action against the region...?
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There seem to be problems with messages too. I got the following when reporting a scout report to my whole realm in dwilight
Fatal error: Call to a member function setContact() on a non-object in /var/battlemaster/live/testing/message-write.php on line 464
page is http://battlemaster.org/testing/message-write.php
This, and the other messaging errors, should be fixed once Tom pushes rev. 5989 live.
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As duke currently not in my region I have now access only to the "market reports" for duchy and region which are clearly still empty. Is it right that there will be no way to directly assess the sizes of the stores in the various regions of the duchy anymore?
Upcoming, will be online very soon.
Also is it intended that when the lord is not in his region he can't see the usual table with the details of consumption/storage etc of his own region?
Please be more specific.
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the warehouse report telling how much food is in your region, how much is consumed/produced, etc.
you don't see it even if the lord is in his region
used to be one of those warehouse.php i think (forgot exact name) .. ie.. the one you only just overhauled in the last couple of weeks
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Message said X bushels were moved from warehouse into granaries. Granaries say they have 0 bushels.
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you mean this lot?
avengmil bt
Food System Upgrade (5 hours, 12 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Avengmil
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the food you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
Food System Upgrade (5 hours, 5 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Avengmil
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the food you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
Food System Upgrade (4 hours, 57 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Avengmil
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the food you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
Food System Upgrade (4 hours, 54 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Avengmil
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 676 bushels. This is the 571 bushels you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply of 105 bushels to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
as opposed to nebel, dwi
Food System Upgrade (5 hours, 5 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Nebel
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the food you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
Food System Upgrade (5 hours ago)
message to the lord and knights of Nebel
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the food you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
Food System Upgrade (4 hours, 48 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Nebel
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the 350 bushels you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply of 125 bushels to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
i can tell you avengmil really has those 600 odd food.. *insofar as multiple places tells me there is such food) can't tell you about dwi.
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Food System Upgrade (5 hours, 12 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Eisenik
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the 517 bushels you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply of 35 bushels to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
Yes appears that BT did get food while Dwi did not. Granaries are empty can only set buy orders.
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incidentally.. are prices capped at 50 per 100 bushels in that drop down menu?
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not entirely sure I understand a trader's role... i have one in dwi, plain trader (not steward/lord) and is away in a foreign region which has a market place.
1st thing i noticed is that he can't set offers to buy food at the market place.. so he has to wait for the lords to do their thing 1st?
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Just another event for Dwilight. Warehouses might have been filled now :)
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Food System Upgrade (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Nebel
Your region has received 2 granaries, replacing the old warehouses.
Your new granaries have been filled with a total of 0 bushels. This is the 350 bushels you had stored in your warehouses plus a free 5-day supply of 125 bushels to get you over the initial adaptation phase to the new trade system.
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incidentally.. are prices capped at 50 per 100 bushels in that drop down menu?
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not entirely sure I understand a trader's role... i have one in dwi, plain trader (not steward/lord) and is away in a foreign region which has a market place.
1st thing i noticed is that he can't set offers to buy food at the market place.. so he has to wait for the lords to do their thing 1st?
Yeah it appears traders only wait to match up buy and sell orders set by lords.
Buy prices are capped at 10-50, it would be interesting if sell prices are capped lower to ensure a profit in trade.
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Please be more specific.
yeah sorry it was pretty vague.
As duke I used to be able to access even when not in my region, via the "trade details (or trade report, I can't recall the name of the link), a table with the values for production/consumption/stores of all the regions of my duchy, including my own. The average lord probably didn't have such an option but I am pretty sure they were nevertheless able somehow to see how much is in their warehouse and so on.
With the new system apparently there is no link that leads you to such informations, the question then is: must the lord be in his region to see the details of the current situation of the warehouse, such as size of the stores, consumption and so on?
The only link I could access led me to the current market offers in my region and in my duchy, but nothing else.
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yeah sorry it was pretty vague.
As duke I used to be able to access even when not in my region, via the "trade details (or trade report, I can't recall the name of the link), a table with the values for production/consumption/stores of all the regions of my duchy, including my own. The average lord probably didn't have such an option but I am pretty sure they were nevertheless able somehow to see how much is in their warehouse and so on.
With the new system apparently there is no link that leads you to such informations, the question then is: must the lord be in his region to see the details of the current situation of the warehouse, such as size of the stores, consumption and so on?
The only link I could access led me to the current market offers in my region and in my duchy, but nothing else.
He means the warehouse tables which used to list production, stores, consumption by population and troops. These tables are nowhere to be found now.
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In the new system, traders no longer buy food, keep it with them, and then sell it later. Traders are now brokers. They hook up people who want to buy food with people who want to sell food, and broker a deal. Non-traders can only fill one order at a time. Brokers can work with many orders all at once to fill orders that otherwise could not be filled. I.e. a trader can match two sell orders with three buy offers to broker a composite deal. Non traders can only fill one order at a time.
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Right now as Duke and Banker, I am able to see the food in the duchy and realm, which is great!
I cannot create any offers for the city though. I have a different lord who is outside the realm and can understand why he cannot set up offers, but within the realm while not traveling should work, no?
EDIT:
Never mind. I am an idiot. Didn't realize I could scroll down on the marketplace page.
So far so good!
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wait... a duke/banker can set up offers if he's not lord?!
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They hook up people who want to buy food with people who want to sell food, and broker a deal. Non-traders can only fill one order at a time. Brokers can work with many orders all at once to fill orders that otherwise could not be filled. I.e. a trader can match two sell orders with three buy offers to broker a composite deal. Non traders can only fill one order at a time.
More importantly: Traders have a larger reach. They can broker deals that neither party can access. Two regions 550 miles apart can not buy or sell from each other unless one of the region lords travels a part of the distance to a marketplace. But a trader sitting in either region can probably (depending on trading skill) see the other and make the deal.
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wait... a duke/banker can set up offers if he's not lord?!
No, he shouldn't. But he probably means that he's lord of the city. Most dukes still are.
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Food issue is settled, but I'm not sure messaging is entirely. Trying to send a message to all full members of VE, I got this:
Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Doctrine\ORM\Query\QueryException' with message '[Semantical Error] line 0, col 133 near 'rank < 100 order': Error: Class BattleMaster\GuildMember has no field or association named rank' in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query/QueryException.php:47 Stack trace: #0 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query/Parser.php(428): Doctrine\ORM\Query\QueryException::semanticalError('line 0, col 133...') #1 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query/Parser.php(670): Doctrine\ORM\Query\Parser->semanticalError('Class BattleMas...', Array) #2 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query/Parser.php(221): Doctrine\ORM\Query\Parser->_processDeferredPathExpressions(Object(Doctrine\ORM\Query\AST\SelectStatement)) #3 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query/Parser.php(281): Doctrine\ORM\Query\Parser->getAST() #4 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query.php(212): Doctrine\ORM\Query\Parser->parse() #5 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query.php(232): Doctrine\ORM\Query->_parse() #6 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/AbstractQuery.php(586): Doctrine\ORM\Query->_doExecu in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Query/QueryException.php on line 47
Am liking the changes though, minor bugs aside :)
Finton.
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Not really a problem with the trading system, but granarys are really expensive now. I know it's based off the other building in the city too, but compared to the older system it raises the price of everything else too. Good for balance though. I'm not sure if caravans are really much use anymore at all. Can nobles still buy food to keep in the caravan to feed their troops? If not, why keep the buildings?
Shop Produces Exist Construction Upkeep Actions
Granary storage 3 21560 gold 1 gold build
Traders Supplies Caravans 2 22390 gold 3 gold build
I noticed the new system deals strictly in bonds, that might get interesting for region lords far from a city. (I understand why though)
Last nitpick for me is that offers are all or nothing, example of 400 for 100g @ 25 per 100, why couldn't I buy a whole incremental amount at say 200 for 50 (25 per 100)? I know it was a design decision, but I'm not sure that it's posted about that enough when posting the offer (or accepting it)
Region is selling 400 bushels for 100 gold - a value of 25 gold per 100 bushels
Overall I think I will quite enjoy the new system, thanks to the dev team for all your hard work.
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Is that really 22390 pieces of gold, or is that a formatting error? I can't believe it's that much.... Can you even carry over 10k pieces of anything? It though it was capped like the family gold.
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Question I have (which falls in line with the above, with the noble's troops starving in a region with no food):
I used caravans not only for trade, but to carry excess food "just in case" I was stuck in a starving region, so my troops wouldn't be impacted...
If caravans have gone bye-bye, can something minor be created as paraphrenalia, so a noble can be proactive in protecting their own troops (maybe even to avoid impacting a region's food, because they already have their own)? If not called a caravan, maybe just call it a "supply wagon"... they won't be able to sell to a region (which seems to be what you want) but they can buy and store food (or heck, even loot food).
Does bring up an interesting idea though... spend 3 hours on "Forage Food" if you want to see if you can get food for yourself, into your supply wagon, but doesn't damage the region's production, and isn't considered a hostile action against the region...?
Sorry to repost, but it was asked to continue giving feedback, and this is a concern of mine...
Short version though: can we carry "personal food" now, or does it mean we're just going to have starving-dying troops if you're in a region that ran out of food?
EDIT-- didn't know of the "Reworking Trade" thread... so am taking a look..
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In the other topic, Tom answered he was currently thinking about carts or something else keeping your troops fed if you had one with you. So probably something along those lines will be added in the future.
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The message system seems a bit weird still. More specifically, it doesn't show the number of recipients for a letter (so it's just like: message sent to all nobles of Morek - without any number), and if you're included in the group you send the message it's going to arrive you as a foreign letter (that is, you get a new message after you send it and you can read your own message)
edit: there seem to be no more "reply to group" button also.
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Not really a problem with the trading system, but granarys are really expensive now. I know it's based off the other building in the city too, but compared to the older system it raises the price of everything else too. Good for balance though. I'm not sure if caravans are really much use anymore at all. Can nobles still buy food to keep in the caravan to feed their troops? If not, why keep the buildings?
One thing about granaries is that harvest is now daily, so you won't have huge food reserves after harvest that then get depleted during the next days, meaning you probably need fewer granaries than you used to need warehouses.
The caravans will go away. Right now, however, they are still around because the list of available extras is shared with stable - people on stable may notice that they can build granaries now, even though those don't do anything.
I noticed the new system deals strictly in bonds, that might get interesting for region lords far from a city. (I understand why though)
Please tell me.
I'm serious. It's one of those design decision that I just know to be the right one, but I'm not entirely sure why.
Last nitpick for me is that offers are all or nothing,
You'll have to get used to that. Nothing short of a six-digit bribe will convince me to change it. :-)
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Yeah, the message system is the next big mess we're going to fix.
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strictly in bonds has pros and cons. everyone gets taxes in bonds... but it would be a pain if someone didn't plan ahead and has only gold... and for whatever reason had all his food looted (or whatever)
i could understand in bonds for the sake of simplicity.. but i would honestly prefer bonds... and when you are out of bonds, use gold. afterall, shifting gold->bonds is not a really bad thing, unless you are about to capture someone with lots of gold and he hides them into thin air.
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Food Bought (28 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Jedinchel
Seyud has bought 100 bushels of food for the granary.
Seyud is the Count of Orde, a neighbouring region. The message does not make sense. I don't know exactly what the transaction was. But it should say Seyud has sold 100 bushels to the granary, or Seyud has bought 100 bushels from the granary.
Unless it was meant to go to all lords and knights of surrounding regions as well as his own region.
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look a bit further back, there should be a message saying your lord stuck food or gold into the market place.. i imagine.. (not that your message make much sense either.. but still should give a fuller picture)
eg.. my knight got this message (i also play the lord in the same region.. the knight is also steward.. but that's a bit buggy...)
Food Sold (10 hours, 5 minutes ago)
message to the lord and knights of Avengmil
Yuri has put 100 bushels of food on the market, removing it from the granary.
... obviously the food wasn't sold yet... perhaps it should say... Food Sale Offer instead..
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look a bit further back, there should be a message saying your lord stuck food or gold into the market place.. i imagine.. (not that your message make much sense either.. but still should give a fuller picture)
nope, no other messages, the only other messages about food was from the actual change over.
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don't know then.. i haven't managed to set a buy offer yet... because neither of my characters have bonds XD
ask the lord oocly?
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Seyud is the Count of Orde, a neighbouring region. The message does not make sense. I don't know exactly what the transaction was. But it should say Seyud has sold 100 bushels to the granary, or Seyud has bought 100 bushels from the granary.
Unless it was meant to go to all lords and knights of surrounding regions as well as his own region.
Just a guess, but I would say that Seyud bought the food for his region, from your region.
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Seyud is the Count of Orde, a neighbouring region. The message does not make sense. I don't know exactly what the transaction was. But it should say Seyud has sold 100 bushels to the granary, or Seyud has bought 100 bushels from the granary.
True, the message was misleading. What likely happened was that Jedinchel had a buy offer and Seyud accepted it. I've written a better message now.
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but... why didn't he get a prior message about a buy offer being set up?
my 2 chars, lord + steward knight of same region got that sell offer message above.. which is supposedly sent to lord+all knights of the region...
sort of doesn't make sense for only sell offers to be announced? unless neither is meant to be announced.
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Since delivering food too quickly is out, and traders is still a noble class, can priests become traders now? There's no longer an advantage over other classes, and it's still a fairly peaceful thing.
Additionally, you could quell the requests to make it so priests can gain honor and prestige by making it so broking deals that end starvation have a chance of rewarding you with such gains. Maybe even make it so you have to eat the expense and donate the food.
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Just got this error trying to setup a market sell order in my lands of Nark.
Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'PDOException' with message 'SQLSTATE[42000]: Syntax error or access violation: 1064 You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'Limit, Timer, Region_ID, Character_ID) VALUES ('sell', 400, 140, NULL, 10, '238'' at line 1' in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php:131 Stack trace: #0 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php(131): PDOStatement->execute(NULL) #1 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Persisters/BasicEntityPersister.php(236): Doctrine\DBAL\Statement->execute() #2 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/UnitOfWork.php(708): Doctrine\ORM\Persisters\BasicEntityPersister->executeInserts() #3 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/UnitOfWork.php(287): Doctrine\ORM\UnitOfWork->executeInserts(Object(Doctrine\ORM\Mapping\ClassMetadata)) #4 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/EntityManager.php(334): Doctrine\ORM\UnitOfWork->commit() #5 /var/battlemaster/include/Doctrine/BattleMaster/Message.php(58): Doctrine\ORM\EntityManager->flush in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php on line 131
The market order was not setupi successfully.
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Mio Dupaki, in Belu/Riombra
Have 539 food stored.. went to the Create link in Market, tried to post, and got this:
Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'PDOException' with message 'SQLSTATE[42000]: Syntax error or access violation: 1064 You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'Limit, Timer, Region_ID, Character_ID) VALUES ('sell', 300, 60, NULL, 10, '186',' at line 1' in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php:131 Stack trace: #0 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php(131): PDOStatement->execute(NULL) #1 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Persisters/BasicEntityPersister.php(236): Doctrine\DBAL\Statement->execute() #2 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/UnitOfWork.php(708): Doctrine\ORM\Persisters\BasicEntityPersister->executeInserts() #3 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/UnitOfWork.php(287): Doctrine\ORM\UnitOfWork->executeInserts(Object(Doctrine\ORM\Mapping\ClassMetadata)) #4 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/EntityManager.php(334): Doctrine\ORM\UnitOfWork->commit() #5 /var/battlemaster/include/Doctrine/BattleMaster/Message.php(58): Doctrine\ORM\EntityManager->flush in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php on line 131
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Should be fixed now. An update in preparation for restricting offers had a bug.
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but... why didn't he get a prior message about a buy offer being set up?
my 2 chars, lord + steward knight of same region got that sell offer message above.. which is supposedly sent to lord+all knights of the region...
sort of doesn't make sense for only sell offers to be announced? unless neither is meant to be announced.
No, all the offers should be announced.
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Is there a reason you need to be in your region to access the market? Especially on Dwilight with the distances and low population density, my lord is 2-3 days travel from his region which is not where the realm needs him to be so I can't even look at the new page.
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can also be a region with markets?
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I haven't had a chance to look at that, just finished a 30 hour march out of some mountains and saw this:
Market - you can only access the market place when you are within your region.
I assumed (I know, silly me) that it meant I had to be in my region, I'll try going to a city that I think has a market.
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Market - you can only access the market place when you are within your region.
Misleading, my fault. You also have a market under "Actions". I wasn't sure where to put it, so I put it into both. That under actions is available when you are away from home, that under command was available only if you were at home, since it is based in your, well, command. I've brought it in line now, but I'm thinking about removing it from command and only leaving it in actions.
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I don't understand one thing:
In Reeds, BT, the Production is 7, demand 53. We have a defict of -46 and 1357 bushels of food that will last for 30 days.
So, the city has enough food for at least a month, but still the starvation keeps increasing...why?
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I don't understand one thing:
In Reeds, BT, the Production is 7, demand 53. We have a defict of -46 and 1357 bushels of food that will last for 30 days.
So, the city has enough food for at least a month, but still the starvation keeps increasing...why?
What do you mean the starvation keeps increasing?
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Now starvation is considered Horrible in Reeds, and a few days ago, it was in a better level...
also for Pel Mark, it had no starvation, now it is as "some", marked on the Food Report for the banker.
Even with the Granaries full...
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Naidraug: Can you please post the past week or so of region status messages showing this starvation? Perhaps that will help clear up some of the misunderstanding of what you mean.
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Now starvation is considered Horrible in Reeds, and a few days ago, it was in a better level...
also for Pel Mark, it had no starvation, now it is as "some", marked on the Food Report for the banker.
Even with the Granaries full...
You should be getting daily reports. Can you post one or two to show us what exactly you are getting?
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The marketplace code doesn't allow you to broker a deal. It doesn't recognize the hours in your pool. Posted to the bugtracker over the weekend. Buy order is all gone, could probably test if I'm told it's fixed by asking around for a volunteer to buy.
Original deal was cross realm boarders, haven't been able to test within realm boarders to broker a deal.
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typo. fixed now.
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Duchy Report for Reeds (5 days, 12 hours ago)
message to the duke and nobles of Reeds
Reeds
Due to the ongoing starvation, all commercial activities have ceased. Production is effectively at zero. Morale drops through the floor and loyalty to your realm is non-existent. If there hasn't been a rebellion yet, it is only because the people are too hungry. 1399 peasants have starved to death today.
Realm Report for Nothoi (4 days, 12 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nothoi
Reeds
Due to the ongoing starvation, all commercial activities have ceased. Production is effectively at zero. Morale drops through the floor and loyalty to your realm is non-existent. If there hasn't been a rebellion yet, it is only because the people are too hungry. 1126 peasants have starved to death today.
Duchy Report for Reeds (3 days, 12 hours ago)
message to the duke and nobles of Reeds
Reeds
The people are starving to death! Many people are sick or don't come to work anymore. Unrest and looting are getting out of control. 431 peasants have starved to death today.
Realm Report for Nothoi (2 days, 12 hours ago)
message to all nobles of Nothoi
Reeds
Due to the ongoing starvation, all commercial activities have ceased. Production is effectively at zero. Morale drops through the floor and loyalty to your realm is non-existent. If there hasn't been a rebellion yet, it is only because the people are too hungry. 2714 peasants have starved to death today.
Duchy Report for Reeds (1 day, 12 hours ago)
message to the duke and nobles of Reeds
Reeds
The people are starving to death! Many people are sick or don't come to work anymore. Unrest and looting are getting out of control. 87 peasants have starved to death today.
Realm Report for Nothoi (12 hours, 30 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Nothoi
Reeds
Due to the ongoing starvation, all commercial activities have ceased. Production is effectively at zero. Morale drops through the floor and loyalty to your realm is non-existent. If there hasn't been a rebellion yet, it is only because the people are too hungry. 299 peasants have starved to death today.
Here is the starvation messages.
Also the banker table:
Region Production Demand Deficit/Surplus Stored will last for Starvation
Gaxano 6 6 0 595
Haffemet 49 13 36 356
Iknopata 3 8 -5 789 158 days
Naraka 57 17 40 824
Pel Mark 2 5 -3 567 189 days some
Reeds 7 53 -46 1357 30 days horrible
Ren Madragas 6 6 0 531
Zisswii 8 9 -1 548 548 days
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excellent, that helped.
There was a bug in the starvation calculation affecting only regions such as Reeds that never run a surplus and always need granary food. It should be much better now, though you will still see some starvation for a day or two.
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Would it be possible that the last posted buy order is remembered, so adding several the same buy orders is getting more easy? Or add an option to say how often you want to add the buy offer.
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Will test marketplace when I get a buy order listed.
As for the Bonds, the reason is simple. It's a brokerage, the money is all handled by the clerks in the capital. For gameplay reasons, if you broker a deal you shouldn't get the difference in golds but in bonds.
Obviously this makes finance in BM much more modern. Where are my merchant prince families to establish banking when I need them.
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Yup, brokering now works. Got my bonds all 4 of them for my deal ;-)
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As for the Bonds, the reason is simple. It's a brokerage, the money is all handled by the clerks in the capital. For gameplay reasons, if you broker a deal you shouldn't get the difference in golds but in bonds.
obviously you should never be able to change bonds->gold outside of bank... as i mentioned above.. i don't think the other way is a big deal.
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1 funny thing... i've been sitting on my arse for days in fissoa wondering why the hell there ain't no buying deals from d'hara - my trader's realm .. trader not that high skilled i don't think, with a radius of somewhere between 500-600 miles...
it's too bloody far away (around 700-800 miles away from character).. XD
so in a way it's bad, because it would rule out what i did before, travelling from d'hara to summerdale (which is even further away) as a new trader and bring back a load of food.
perhaps traders could broker deals with other traders (sort of boosting the signal to reach even further) as opposed to just deals between lords?
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1 funny thing... i've been sitting on my arse for days in fissoa wondering why the hell there ain't no buying deals from d'hara - my trader's realm .. trader not that high skilled i don't think, with a radius of somewhere between 500-600 miles...
it's too bloody far away (around 700-800 miles away from character).. XD
Is this specifically about long sea routes? Where two regions can "border" each other (i.e. reachable via a sea route), but too far away for trading?
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Is this specifically about long sea routes? Where two regions can "border" each other (i.e. reachable via a sea route), but too far away for trading?
Probably more a Dwilight thing, since Summerdale, the other realm he mentioned doesn't border D'Hara. The long distances on Dwilight, and D'Hara's reliance on imported food results in some very long distance trading.
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just comparing what was possible (though not necessarily desirable or frequently done thing) before and what isn't possible after.
as a trader, technically there was no range limit before.. the limit is enough gold to pay the men (so you don't get robbed) and repair the equipment and of course, time. well, i suppose there's a limit to the distance your men is willing to go before lynching you.
"before" it was a case of knowing there's such a deal on offer before trundling off somewhere far off with lots of gold.
whereas now, don't need the gold or men since it's done in bonds.
perhaps another way of doing it would be a trader can access X miles from where he is atm + market offers of own realm?
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The solution is to find a local lord and another trader to set up a supply chain. Trade guilds should work nicely for this.
As Tom said, he wanted trade to be more local. If you want to set up long trade routes, they are going to have to go through some markets along the way.
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just comparing what was possible (though not necessarily desirable or frequently done thing) before and what isn't possible after.
as a trader, technically there was no range limit before.. the limit is enough gold to pay the men (so you don't get robbed) and repair the equipment and of course, time. well, i suppose there's a limit to the distance your men is willing to go before lynching you.
"before" it was a case of knowing there's such a deal on offer before trundling off somewhere far off with lots of gold.
whereas now, don't need the gold or men since it's done in bonds.
perhaps another way of doing it would be a trader can access X miles from where he is atm + market offers of own realm?
Just my opinion, but the new system wants to simulate local markets more. This change would disrupt that. To achieve truly long distance trading now looks like it will need intermediaries, or more skilled traders. But then this might only be a problem on Dwilight due to the longer distances involved.
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The main change is not local vs. long-distance, the main change is that noble(!) traders should not be travelling salesman, but bankers, dealers, brokers, heads of merchant empires - that kind of people. The actual dirty work gets done by others.
The trading distance mainly serves two purposes: One, it gives traders an advantage over non-trader characters. Two, it forces traders to travel around a bit for the most profitable deals, as they can't do everything from the safety of their own realms capital.
I am not opposed to making sure that, for example, you can always trade with regions that have connections to your current region, even if the distance is outside your trade range. And maybe limit sea routes to something that only traders can use. Stuff like that. And thanks to the new code base that this new system builts on, adding that is fairly simple, essentially adding a few lines to the function that determines which regions are viable trade targets.
But I don't want to change things back and forth, so I'd rather have a bit of discussion and then make a decision.
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I need to clarify something
If a regional lord travels to the other side of the continent, he is able to access the market from a local market place there and buy food for his region that is thousands of miles away?
However if the lord sends a trader to the other side of the continent, because the trader has a limited reach and no 'home' region like the lord does, the trader is not able to broker such a trade?
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I need to clarify something
If a regional lord travels to the other side of the continent, he is able to access the market from a local market place there and buy food for his region that is thousands of miles away?
However if the lord sends a trader to the other side of the continent, because the trader has a limited reach and no 'home' region like the lord does, the trader is not able to broker such a trade?
I believe this is correct.
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If a regional lord travels to the other side of the continent, he is able to access the market from a local market place there and buy food for his region that is thousands of miles away?
However if the lord sends a trader to the other side of the continent, because the trader has a limited reach and no 'home' region like the lord does, the trader is not able to broker such a trade?
That is correct. I need to allow lords to be able to travel elsewhere and supply their home region from there, or the dependency upon traders would be game-breaking for some realms with few or no traders.
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In that case, I think it would be very interesting to allow trade over those distant sea routes. It would make those port cities really feel like port cities in terms of trade.
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In that case, I think it would be very interesting to allow trade over those distant sea routes. It would make those port cities really feel like port cities in terms of trade.
Yes a quick look at the distances involved, I think some of the sea routes are longer then the Lords trading distance.
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I am not sure whether this was supposed to be fixed or whether it was just aknowledged, but any building construction in Fronepu (Beluaterra) is still outrageously expensive 20k gold+.
Also, I know you need a marketplace to set up a trade, is there any exeption while in your own region if there is no marketplace? I would like to see that exeption in place if it is not already.
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I am not sure whether this was supposed to be fixed or whether it was just aknowledged, but any building construction in Fronepu (Beluaterra) is still outrageously expensive 20k gold+.
Also, I know you need a marketplace to set up a trade, is there any exeption while in your own region if there is no marketplace? I would like to see that exeption in place if it is not already.
Yes, Lords in their own region can always set up a trade. Building prices should have been resolved.
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I would like FoodReport.php to have a column with the number of granaries in each region.
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I would like FoodReport.php to have a column with the number of granaries in each region.
I wanted the same for warehouses so bankers could see that easily. Never did happen.
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So this is going to just create message spam to all knights in a region? Shouldn't it just be the Lord and the Steward?
As an example of some relatively trivial trading...
Food Sold (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has put 400 bushels of food on the market, removing it from the granary.
Food Bought (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has bought 100 bushels of food for the granary.
Food Bought (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has bought 200 bushels of food for the granary.
Food Bought (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has bought 200 bushels of food for the granary.
Food Bought (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has bought 100 bushels of food for the granary.
Food Sold (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has put 200 bushels of food on the market, removing it from the granary.
Food Sold (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has put 200 bushels of food on the market, removing it from the granary.
Food Sold (just in)
message to the lord and knights of Eidulb Outskirts
Serko has put 200 bushels of food on the market, removing it from the granary.
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Well, coastal trading can already be done through the sea routes? I can from Eidulb outskirts sell to Golden Farrow? Will attempt in Eidulb to see how far I can go.
I think it might be helpful to know, just how far can a trader maximally trade if they got to say 80%?
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Well, coastal trading can already be done through the sea routes? I can from Eidulb outskirts sell to Golden Farrow? Will attempt in Eidulb to see how far I can go.
I think it might be helpful to know, just how far can a trader maximally trade if they got to say 80%?
Yes of course it is possible. I've said as much. It is much MORE possible for Traders then Lords, since the Lords maximum range is limited. I'm pretty sure a Lord who isn't a trader can't use the route Eidulb to Golden Farrow. Eidulb to Libidizedd though, should be open to all.
The change would be to allow Lords to trade with any port that links to their current region via a sea route. I imagine if there is a case where the distance of a sea route is too far for Traders it would make sense to enable this for traders as well.
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So this is going to just create message spam to all knights in a region? Shouldn't it just be the Lord and the Steward?
I'd just like to keep the knights more in the loop, that's all.
Yeah, some of the recent changes are very "chatty" (TOs, trade...). That'll be improved later.
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I think it might be helpful to know, just how far can a trader maximally trade if they got to say 80%?
Look at the market place screen, it will tell you your current trading distance.
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Well, coastal trading can already be done through the sea routes? I can from Eidulb outskirts sell to Golden Farrow? Will attempt in Eidulb to see how far I can go.
I think it might be helpful to know, just how far can a trader maximally trade if they got to say 80%?
My distance is 562 miles. From Paisly I can buy from Candiels Fields, but not Candiels, and north to Saffalore, but not Chateau Saffalore, and east to Nebel, but not Qubel.
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Is there some reason you cannot include your own region's offers in a brokerage deal?
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I don't remember but yes, there was a reason.
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It's just kind of weird, because you could in theory buy all the food and then sell it directly yourself, you just have to have the bonds on hand to make the original purchases. Why you should have to do that when another trader could do it all themselves is just strange.
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Just build a cart workshop in Rettleville and got an error. Carts did not build and gold was not taken from my character. Suspecting this is related to the recent changes
int(2) A new Cartbuilders has been constructed and will begin production tomorrow. You paid 80 gold coins for this building.
Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'PDOException' with message 'SQLSTATE[23000]: Integrity constraint violation: 1048 Column 'MaxStock' cannot be null' in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php:131 Stack trace: #0 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php(131): PDOStatement->execute(NULL) #1 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/Persisters/BasicEntityPersister.php(236): Doctrine\DBAL\Statement->execute() #2 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/UnitOfWork.php(708): Doctrine\ORM\Persisters\BasicEntityPersister->executeInserts() #3 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/UnitOfWork.php(287): Doctrine\ORM\UnitOfWork->executeInserts(Object(Doctrine\ORM\Mapping\ClassMetadata)) #4 /usr/share/php/Doctrine/ORM/EntityManager.php(334): Doctrine\ORM\UnitOfWork->commit() #5 /var/battlemaster/include/Doctrine/BattleMaster/Message.php(58): Doctrine\ORM\EntityManager->flush(Object(BattleMaster\Message)) #6 /var/battlemaster/live/testing/EconomyExtras.php(37): BattleMaster\Message::Send(Array, 'New Workshop', 'A new Cartbuild...', 'Report') #7 {main} thrown in /usr/share/php/Doctrine/DBAL/Statement.php on line 131
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saw something interesting... there's a trade offer to sell food set by the lord. the region has since been taken over and the offer remains. wonder if the new lord can cancel it...
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steward cannot cancel trade offers that he created? i thought my lord character could set an offer and then delete it right away.... doesn't look like the steward can.
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saw something interesting... there's a trade offer to sell food set by the lord. the region has since been taken over and the offer remains. wonder if the new lord can cancel it...
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steward cannot cancel trade offers that he created? i thought my lord character could set an offer and then delete it right away.... doesn't look like the steward can.
You can always cancel your own trades, never those of anyone else. If you find something different, please report it on the bugtracker with details.
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So, who are the ones who can trade from abroad? Traders, or anyone with caravans (traders having a greater range)?
I know an announcement was done that all food would be erased from the caravans, I'm just not sure of the caravans' new role in the new trade system. How do they work? What is their purpose? What does having more of them change?
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So, who are the ones who can trade from abroad?
Traders, lords, and stewards. A "regular knight" can no longer trade at all.
I'm just not sure of the caravans' new role in the new trade system.
There are no more caravans. Remove the word "caravan" from your vocabulary. They do not exist.
At least for right now. There will eventually be some mechanics added to remove the current instantaneous-movement nature of trading. I don't know what it will be, but it will almost certainly be automated, without any control by the players.
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Traders, lords, and stewards. A "regular knight" can no longer trade at all.
There are no more caravans. Remove the word "caravan" from your vocabulary. They do not exist.
At least for right now. There will eventually be some mechanics added to remove the current instantaneous-movement nature of trading. I don't know what it will be, but it will almost certainly be automated, without any control by the players.
I can still buy them in cities with trader supplies. So if I understand correctly, buying them would be a total waste of gold, right?
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At this time, yes.
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At this time, yes.
Will these buildings have a new use? If caravans aren't going to return as they used to exist, it'd be nice to have these turned into tariff posts that allow lords to impose taxes on trades that are made from their region.
I really think tariffs would add a lot to the trading game. Tariffs on people trading from your region (usage fee) and on trades with your region from abroad (shipping fees). The combination would allow those who don't care about trade to play with a very simple and steamlined system, while granting those who want to focus on trade a few tools to incite people to come to them.
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I can still buy them in cities with trader supplies. So if I understand correctly, buying them would be a total waste of gold, right?
That is because the definition of available workshops is shared between testing and stable. Just like stable now has granaries that don't do anything, testing still has caravans workshops.
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That is because the definition of available workshops is shared between testing and stable. Just like stable now has granaries that don't do anything, testing still has caravans workshops.
That's interesting. I had no idea.
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You can always cancel your own trades, never those of anyone else. If you find something different, please report it on the bugtracker with details.
that's when you are at a market only? when i come across another market on dwi, i'll give it another go
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I have started thinking about tariffs, but I'm not yet through with the design process in my head.
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Maybe there should be travel tax for foreigners. Whenever they go through a city, they should pay small amount of gold or something.
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Maybe there should be travel tax for foreigners. Whenever they go through a city, they should pay small amount of gold or something.
...and what if they don't have any gold? You're going to have the gate guards block passage for the King of Evilstani over a lousy 2 gold?
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Maybe there should be travel tax for foreigners. Whenever they go through a city, they should pay small amount of gold or something.
Nonsense.
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You can always cancel your own trades, never those of anyone else. If you find something different, please report it on the bugtracker with details.
before me posting anything in bugtracker.... can i check the following...
in which page are you supposed to be able to cancel own trades?
MarketsWatch.php?
Marketplace.php?
in any market or own region only?
both my lord and steward characters (of avengmil) are now in a foreign market place (Enweilieos) and i am in a position to check.
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bt
i had a previous outstanding sell offer that only appears in MarketsWatch.php no sign of being able to cancel anything there.
in Marketplace.php there's no sign of that offer... could be because i'm out of range.. not certain.
just now i used the lord to create another sell offer... no sign of being able to cancel it anywhere (in this far away foreign marketplace) with either steward or lord... perhaps i could cancel it when i am in the home region?
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incidentally.. the "food sold" message should really say "food offered for sale"
Food Sold (7 minutes ago)
message to the lord and steward of Avengmil
Yuri has put 20 bushels of food on the market, removing it from the granary.
and for some reason, despite it being sent to lord and steward... only the lord got a copy.. (could be just me and that strange issue)
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ah... and the bit about being able to cancel your own trade and not anyone else.
does that refer to position or actual person when it comes to the lord?
eg.. old lord sees his (food consuming) region about to fall, loads all food on market to sell.... new lord can't cancel? obviously.. if they are smart about it, the trade would have been completed before the region falls or new lord installed..
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Is it intended that a lord can load all his food in the market in order to avoid rotting?
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before me posting anything in bugtracker.... can i check the following...
in which page are you supposed to be able to cancel own trades?
MarketsWatch.php?
Marketplace.php?
Marketplace.php will allow you to cancel orders you have posted.
The MarketsWatch page is a view-only page that is always available to lords/stewards, dukes, and bankers. It will show you all the open offers in your region/duchy/realm, respectively.
in any market or own region only?
The marketwatch page is always available. The marketplace page is avail to lords, stewards, and traders who are at any marketplace. Lords/stewards can also reach it when at their home region, even if there is no marketplace there.
both my lord and steward characters (of avengmil) are now in a foreign market place (Enweilieos) and i am in a position to check.
As long as you are not at war with the realm that owns the marketplace, you should be able to use it.
i had a previous outstanding sell offer that only appears in MarketsWatch.php no sign of being able to cancel anything there. in Marketplace.php there's no sign of that offer...
Lords cannot cancel an offer posted by their steward, and stewards cannot cancel an offer posted by their lord. The owner of the offer should be listed. Also, all offers have an expiration date. It should expire on its own, even if you can't cancel it manuall for some reason.
could be because i'm out of range.. not certain.
A steward/lord can never be "out of range" of their home region.
just now i used the lord to create another sell offer... no sign of being able to cancel it anywhere (in this far away foreign marketplace) with either steward or lord... perhaps i could cancel it when i am in the home region?
That may be a bug. Whoever posts the offer should be able to cancel it.
ah... and the bit about being able to cancel your own trade and not anyone else.
does that refer to position or actual person when it comes to the lord?
Offers are owned by the noble, not the position. If a Buy offer is canceled, the character that posted it will get his bonds back. If a Sell order is canceled, the food will return to the region's warehouse.
eg.. old lord sees his (food consuming) region about to fall, loads all food on market to sell.... new lord can't cancel?
Correct. The new lord cannot cancel an offer posted by the prior lord or the prior steward. (Maybe that is something that will need to be looked at. But like you said, someone could just accept the offer and get rid of the food before the takeover finishes anyway. The lord could even sell the food at the minimum price to get rid of it, rather than posting an offer. So, this is probably a non-issue.)
Is it intended that a lord can load all his food in the market in order to avoid rotting?
Placing food on the marketplace is always a risk. Someone else can always snap it up. So, yes, you could place the food in the marketplace to keep it from rotting away. But then it may not be there when you go to cancel your offer and get it back.
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Lords cannot cancel an offer posted by their steward, and stewards cannot cancel an offer posted by their lord. The owner of the offer should be listed. Also, all offers have an expiration date. It should expire on its own, even if you can't cancel it manuall for some reason.
A steward/lord can never be "out of range" of their home region.
That may be a bug. Whoever posts the offer should be able to cancel it.
good point about expiration. anyway.. as i said.. lord made fresh offer, can't cancel with either lord or steward XD because it's simply not listed. i'll stick it on the bugtracker.
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hmm... here's another thought....
what if the lord set a sell offer and the steward fulfils it? (or vice versa) is that possible?
a way to get around no bank transfer between characters of same player? (there's already secret soc for that.. not such a new thing) or sending bonds to each other without going through bank?
or is that blocked off already?
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what if the lord set a sell offer and the steward fulfils it? (or vice versa) is that possible?
Yes.
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A steward/lord can never be "out of range" of their home region.
Of course he can.
But he can always trade from/to his own granaries. But he can easily be out of range of the home region and thus unable to see or trade with offers someone else (say, his steward) has posted there.
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a way to get around no bank transfer between characters of same player? (there's already secret soc for that.. not such a new thing) or sending bonds to each other without going through bank?
or is that blocked off already?
No, it isn't blocked. And yes, it is possible.
It's one of the reasons trading is done in bonds and not gold.
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Placing food on the marketplace is always a risk. Someone else can always snap it up. So, yes, you could place the food in the marketplace to keep it from rotting away. But then it may not be there when you go to cancel your offer and get it back.
The potential of food being snatched up is rather low if you put it up for sale at, say, 90 gold per 100 bushels.
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The potential of food being snatched up is rather low if you put it up for sale at, say, 90 gold per 100 bushels.
Except that you can't. Chenier, with all respect, you need to shut up about something you've not even seen.
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The potential of food being snatched up is rather low if you put it up for sale at, say, 90 gold per 100 bushels.
There is a upper limit for the price. I don't recall off hand what it is.
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50 is the max price.
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just noticed this old message...
The last Granary has broken down due to lack of maintainance and repairs.
you can get the last granary destroyed through low pop and all?
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just noticed this old message...
The last Granary has broken down due to lack of maintainance and repairs.
you can get the last granary destroyed through low pop and all?
I'm going to go with, yes.
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50 is the max price.
This seems low to me. I've often seen average prices at 40 gold, and 50 is not that unusual a price. I can see the need for a ceiling to avoid abuse, but could it be raised?
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This seems low to me. I've often seen average prices at 40 gold, and 50 is not that unusual a price. I can see the need for a ceiling to avoid abuse, but could it be raised?
I am working on trade statistics, and will be monitoring them to see where the real-game prices end up being.
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I am working on trade statistics, and will be monitoring them to see where the real-game prices end up being.
Thanks.
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I am working on trade statistics, and will be monitoring them to see where the real-game prices end up being.
There's so much food being produced on Dwilight that noone needs to buy any anywhere. It's kind of ridiculous.
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There's so much food being produced on Dwilight that noone needs to buy any anywhere. It's kind of ridiculous.
Maybe wait until winter, we also got alot of free food during the switch over.
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Maybe wait until winter, we also got alot of free food during the switch over.
Simple math shows that realms are simply producing bigger surpluses now. I'm not sure the increased consumption is offsetting that.
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Simple math shows that realms are simply producing bigger surpluses now. I'm not sure the increased consumption is offsetting that.
According to my calculations, D'Hara will need to import less than before.
There's so much food being produced on Dwilight that noone needs to buy any anywhere. It's kind of ridiculous.
D'Hara always buys. Even when we won't need any and will have tens of thousands of spare bushels, we will. Just at a lower price.
50 is the max price.
50 was a common price in many places. Seems a little absurd to make it the maximum allowed.
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According to my calculations, D'Hara will need to import less than before.
D'Hara always buys. Even when we won't need any and will have tens of thousands of spare bushels, we will. Just at a lower price.
50 was a common price in many places. Seems a little absurd to make it the maximum allowed.
You need to get your eastern Duchy buying food then, plenty of food sitting around Luria doing nothing.
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50 was a common price in many places. Seems a little absurd to make it the maximum allowed.
I tend to agree. But I don't think a max price of 50 is any sort of major issue.
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question on not so much trade system but traders.
there's no reason to carry a chunk of gold around now and thus no need to have troops to avoid getting robbed. is there any reason for traders to be stuck with merc setting?
from the looks of things, diplomats would require more gold on hand (to do their "bribing")
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I would like for trade offers to be able to specify realms.
Just in the way that you can send gold to a specific noble you should be able to sell food to a specific realm (and I suppose have the feature not to let certain realms trade with you). If my realm forms a trading pact with another realm I wouldn't want some other trader taking our deals just because they are allies with us. That would ruin the whole point of the pact. Unless there is another way to ensure this that I don't know about?
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The other Realm could set up Buy Orders which you then fulfil as Trading Realm perhaps.
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From the food statistics page, D'Hara is the only realm eating more than we're growing.
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Just in the way that you can send gold to a specific noble you should be able to sell food to a specific realm
Absolutely not ever. Over my dead body. I'm already unhappy with the restrictions as they are in, but there would've been way too much protest if I hadn't put them in. Over time I'll see if I can reduce them.
See, trade is supposed to be this anarchistic, crazy free-for all things that ultimately will bring down the feudal system. Trade is intended to be impossible to really control. There is supposed to be a factor of "risk" involved - political risk, not monetary or otherwise.
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Absolutely not ever. Over my dead body. I'm already unhappy with the restrictions as they are in, but there would've been way too much protest if I hadn't put them in. Over time I'll see if I can reduce them.
See, trade is supposed to be this anarchistic, crazy free-for all things that ultimately will bring down the feudal system. Trade is intended to be impossible to really control. There is supposed to be a factor of "risk" involved - political risk, not monetary or otherwise.
So, there is no reason for me to arrange trade deals between two realms? Our realm will just post a bunch of offers to the market and hope that our target realm seeks them out if they felt like it? I don't see how politics could get involved in that. No one would have any idea who bought our food in the end. It'll just go somewhere, maybe.
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Traders have longer range. Good traders have a MUCH longer range. The people in the other realm may not be able to see the other offers and be unable to trade on them. Traders can also trade on multiple offers at once, match, for example, 5 buys with 4 sells, etc.
When food is traded, the lord/steward of each region involved is informed of who they traded with. If Eidulb buys food from Libidizedd, then Libidizedd's lord and steward are told that Eidulb bought their food.
If a trade is brokered, then all parties are informed of the name of the trader doing the brokering, but not the other trading partners. So if a foreign trader is acting on your offers, then you may have reason for politics to be involved. Especially if you see your enemy's trade offers disappearing at the same time as your trade offers are being brokered by a third party.
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So, there is no reason for me to arrange trade deals between two realms? Our realm will just post a bunch of offers to the market and hope that our target realm seeks them out if they felt like it? I don't see how politics could get involved in that. No one would have any idea who bought our food in the end. It'll just go somewhere, maybe.
Apart from the fact that the treaty system does nothing anyway?
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So, there is no reason for me to arrange trade deals between two realms? Our realm will just post a bunch of offers to the market and hope that our target realm seeks them out if they felt like it? I don't see how politics could get involved in that. No one would have any idea who bought our food in the end. It'll just go somewhere, maybe.
Why do you care where the food goes, as long as you get the gold and they get the food or the other way around. You can still negotiate deals, but if you are willing to make an exchange at a certain price why does it matter who it is with. You can still talk to try to convince people to lower their prices if they are too high for you.
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Why do you care where the food goes, as long as you get the gold and they get the food or the other way around. You can still negotiate deals, but if you are willing to make an exchange at a certain price why does it matter who it is with. You can still talk to try to convince people to lower their prices if they are too high for you.
There are many cases when you might care. For instance you might be trying to prevent a city from a friendly realm from starving. You would much prefer the food arrives in the city in such a circumstance. You might be in a cold war with another realm, and thus not too happy if they buy food from you. etc
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There are many cases when you might care. For instance you might be trying to prevent a city from a friendly realm from starving. You would much prefer the food arrives in the city in such a circumstance. You might be in a cold war with another realm, and thus not too happy if they buy food from you. etc
Have the starving city set a buy offer at a lower price. Fill the offer.
If you don't want your food sold, don't put it on the market, or put it there at a price you are willing to part with it, even to an enemy.
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Have the starving city set a buy offer at a lower price. Fill the offer.
If you don't want your food sold, don't put it on the market, or put it there at a price you are willing to part with it, even to an enemy.
Yes, of course, I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of times you DO care about who gets food. Doesn't mean there should be a way to control it.
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So, there is no reason for me to arrange trade deals between two realms?
It could still be useful to let the other realm know what deals you offer so they can send over a trader or two. But you can't do exclusivity, and that is 100% intentional.
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There are many cases when you might care. For instance you might be trying to prevent a city from a friendly realm from starving. You would much prefer the food arrives in the city in such a circumstance. You might be in a cold war with another realm, and thus not too happy if they buy food from you. etc
If the city is starving, it will certainly have several buy offers open. Accept the buy offers, done, there you go.
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Wait. I just posted an offer 30 gold per 100 bushels. So If someone from the city accepts the offer, I will get 30 gold automatically? Whats the point of building a market place?
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The someone from the City will need to use a marketplace to accept that offer. You can only actually trade at marketplaces.
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You can only actually trade at marketplaces.
This is not strictly true. A lord/steward can trade if they are in their home region, if there is a marketplace there or not. If they are also a trader, I believe they can broker deals from there, too.
Marketplaces do three things:
- A trader who is not a lord/steward must be at a marketplace in order to broker trade deals.
- A lord/steward who is not in their home region can only post and accept offers if they are in a region with a marketplace.
- Marketplaces increase the range at which you can act on a trade offer. Without a marketplace, the max range for a lord/steward is 250 miles. A marketplace increases that to 400 miles.
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Thanks for the clarification :)
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Trade (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Trade)
Updated wiki with new information--the 250/400 mile limits, and also a fact i just discovered--a trader-lord cannot broker a trade with his own region if he is outside of the trade radius. He can act as a normal lord, but he can't broker a deal with his own region when he's 1000 miles away.
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um... why would he need to broker a trade with his own region? aside from not being able to match up the trades around... which he wouldn't need to.. since he could just fulfil the trades directly?
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A lord can never broker a trade that includes his own region.
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The maximum range on my page says 200miles. Also traders need marketplaces? :(
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What island? Range may be island-dependent.
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What island? Range may be island-dependent.
Lord on Dwilight
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The maximum range on my page says 200miles. Also traders need marketplaces? :(
Traders need marketplaces, as do Lords when they aren't in their own region
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A lord can never broker a trade that includes his own region.
That's a shame. It would be nice, at least if the trader is in range of his home region, if he could contribute 100 bushels or whatever to balance a trade--if there's a buy offer for 600 and a sell offer for 500, it would be nice if the trader could match those up and contribute 100 bushels of his own.
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http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Trade (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Trade)
Updated wiki with new information--the 250/400 mile limits, and also a fact i just discovered--a trader-lord cannot broker a trade with his own region if he is outside of the trade radius. He can act as a normal lord, but he can't broker a deal with his own region when he's 1000 miles away.
The info is slightly incomplete. Here's what's real:
The trade distance is 400 miles for non-traders. For trader characters, it is between 500 and 700 miles, depending on their trading skill.
If the region does NOT have a marketplace, these distances are halved.
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The info is slightly incomplete. Here's what's real:
The trade distance is 400 miles for non-traders. For trader characters, it is between 500 and 700 miles, depending on their trading skill.
If the region does NOT have a marketplace, these distances are halved.
Updated.
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That's a shame. It would be nice, at least if the trader is in range of his home region, if he could contribute 100 bushels or whatever to balance a trade--if there's a buy offer for 600 and a sell offer for 500, it would be nice if the trader could match those up and contribute 100 bushels of his own.
but trader doesn't have "his own"... and if it's a lord/steward.. they can just buy 600 and sell 500
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Updated.
Be aware that this could change at any time as I watch things and I might decide it needs balancing. Or it needs to be a different value for different islands, etc.
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As a Lord trying to trade with an adjacent region I get this.
Outside your trade distance, this deal should not have been shown as available.
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As a Lord trying to trade with an adjacent region I get this.
Which region are you in, and what region are your trying to trade with?
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Which region are you in, and what region are your trying to trade with?
Mimiravair and Mamaroneck
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As a Lord trying to trade with an adjacent region I get this.
Please use the bugtracker for bug reports, not the forum!
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Please use the bugtracker for bug reports, not the forum!
why don't you put that in the "how to file a helpful but report" sticky thread? right now it says it's okay to post bug reports to the forum.
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why don't you put that in the "how to file a helpful but report" sticky thread? right now it says it's okay to post bug reports to the forum.
It most definitely doesn't. Point me to where something is written in such a way that it can be misunderstood.
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Please use the bugtracker for bug reports, not the forum!
Technically this isn't a bug report, just a question about trade.
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It most definitely doesn't. Point me to where something is written in such a way that it can be misunderstood.
I see you found it.
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I see you found it.
I'm not sure how that could be read as an endorsement of bug reports on the forum, but as you already pointed it out back then, it could be worded more clearly, so I did.
Now let's hope we have this episode behind us and we've all learnt something from it. Sadly, I have learnt that pragmatic exceptions don't work, they have a tendency to stick around.
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Is there any way we can get the ability to post multiple offers at once? Having to set up a dozen or so duplicate offers is just tedious.
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Is there any way we can get the ability to post multiple offers at once? Having to set up a dozen or so duplicate offers is just tedious.
Why not post larger offers?
I agree, it would be nice to either have a "post this many" dropdown, or at least fill in the fields with the last offer.
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You can't fulfil partial offers. You need to do the entire offer or nothing. So putting up multiple offers will make it easier to buy and sell smaller quantities of food instead of selling it all in one go to one region.
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You can't fulfil partial offers. You need to do the entire offer or nothing. So putting up multiple offers will make it easier to buy and sell smaller quantities of food instead of selling it all in one go to one region.
True. But with the glut of food on the markets, I think larger orders are possible to fulfill--cities should have enough food that they can wait for rural supplies to build enough to meet them.
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Many cities need to buy food from multiple rural regions. If your duchy has 5 rurals feeding it, that means you need at least 5 buy offers to get the food from them. And who really wants to just set up 5 buy offers for 1,000 bushels each and hope someone wants to stock up 1,000 bushels to fill them? That's just silly. The idea behind the new system is ease and flexibility. Allowing people to quickly establish the number and type of buy/sell offers they want just makes sense. The glut of food won't last forever.
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Many cities need to buy food from multiple rural regions. If your duchy has 5 rurals feeding it, that means you need at least 5 buy offers to get the food from them. And who really wants to just set up 5 buy offers for 1,000 bushels each and hope someone wants to stock up 1,000 bushels to fill them? That's just silly. The idea behind the new system is ease and flexibility. Allowing people to quickly establish the number and type of buy/sell offers they want just makes sense. The glut of food won't last forever.
This is a traders job, and I assume part of the design decision to not allow offers to be filled in part.
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You can't fulfil partial offers. You need to do the entire offer or nothing. So putting up multiple offers will make it easier to buy and sell smaller quantities of food instead of selling it all in one go to one region.
Traders can broker deals.
Right now, there is enough food all around that nobody is starving. Why don't you test out if putting a few larger offers (I'm not saying just one big one, but instead of 8 orders of 100 bushels each, how about 2 of 300 and one of 200?) - and see if it works out and traders take care of getting your order sorted out?
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Why not post larger offers?
I agree, it would be nice to either have a "post this many" dropdown, or at least fill in the fields with the last offer.
Because traders can only take all or nothing.
Which forces lords to post smaller offers. Which is tedious. And which spams the market page.
Traders can broker deals.
Right now, there is enough food all around that nobody is starving. Why don't you test out if putting a few larger offers (I'm not saying just one big one, but instead of 8 orders of 100 bushels each, how about 2 of 300 and one of 200?) - and see if it works out and traders take care of getting your order sorted out?
Larger offers means accumulating wealth. Which is fine for some, but a pain for warring realms that tend to keep little extra gold on hand for these things.
I finally got able to use the markets...
And I would REALLY, REALLY, but REALLY want standing buy offers that I don't need to continuously renew. No longer being able to say "buy everything at X price" is a huge step backwards, as it now forces every single lord to bother themselves with food, something that most people do not find in any way enjoyable. And it would help ease down on the "offer spam" that results from lords breaking down their offers into smaller chunks.
And making the priest/trader combo available would be an idea too...
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Because traders can only take all or nothing.
Which forces lords to post smaller offers. Which is tedious. And which spams the market page.
Not exactly. I can match a single buy offer for 1000 bushels, with several smaller sell offers (200, 300, 400, 100).
Larger offers means accumulating wealth. Which is fine for some, but a pain for warring realms that tend to keep little extra gold on hand for these things.
It's the same amount of gold either way, whether it's spread across several offers or one.
I finally got able to use the markets...
And I would REALLY, REALLY, but REALLY want standing buy offers that I don't need to continuously renew. No longer being able to say "buy everything at X price" is a huge step backwards, as it now forces every single lord to bother themselves with food, something that most people do not find in any way enjoyable. And it would help ease down on the "offer spam" that results from lords breaking down their offers into smaller chunks.
The only way to do an automatic offer with bonds, would be an automatic offer taken from your taxes, which would be terrible to code.
Not every lord has to bother with food. Cities and rurals, yes; but many of the other regions run so close to 0 that there's no need to buy or sell food at all, maybe once every 3 months or so they would either empty their granary or fill it up.
I do agree that the food reports should be tweaked, maybe a daily summary, rather than instant notifications for offers and transactions.
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Not exactly. I can match a single buy offer for 1000 bushels, with several smaller sell offers (200, 300, 400, 100).
It's the same amount of gold either way, whether it's spread across several offers or one.
Admitedly, I only got to test things as a lord, not as a trader. But if I am traveling to buy food, and only have 150 gold on me, while I could have normally bought up to 300 bushels at 50 gold per 100, if the offer was only for 500 bushels then it would mean that I'd have to continue on and the lord would have missed an opportunity to sell (theoretical example). And when food is low, you usually don't have the time to wait to accumulate a bunch of gold for a large shipment: you just want to get your hands on food right away, no matter how little.
The only way to do an automatic offer with bonds, would be an automatic offer taken from your taxes, which would be terrible to code.
But necessary, imo. And I'm not convinced it would be that hard to code. It might be, but it doesn't sound awfully complicated to me.
Not every lord has to bother with food. Cities and rurals, yes; but many of the other regions run so close to 0 that there's no need to buy or sell food at all, maybe once every 3 months or so they would either empty their granary or fill it up.
That's not my experience. Most regions I've seen tend to either eat a lot of food, or produce a lot of food. Except for badlands and mountains, which are not the majority of available lands.
I do agree that the food reports should be tweaked, maybe a daily summary, rather than instant notifications for offers and transactions.
That too, but that's not what I meant. I meant that on the markets page, I now see half a dozen of offers for just one region. If I was in a region that was more central, in a realm surrounded by many others, I can't begin to immagine how dreadfully long the ads on the market place would be.
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If you count the ten I just posted in Libidizedd, I can probably see at least 25. And almost all of those are Buys.
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I like the fact that I can sort sells and buys. actual filtering would be even better--most city lords don't care about seeing buy offers, and most rurals don't want to see sell offers, and most people don't want to see offers they can't respond to (restricted). It would be nice to be able to save a view as standard--I don't know what sort of storage space that would require on the back-end.
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Admitedly, I only got to test things as a lord, not as a trader. [...] (theoretical example). [...] I can't begin to immagine how dreadfully long
That's a theme with you in this discussion. You speak a lot about things you have never seen. Why should the dev team listen to you?
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Is the Food Supply graph incorrectly reporting coverage now, or is every realm now a net producer of foodstuffs?
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Is the Food Supply graph incorrectly reporting coverage now, or is every realm now a net producer of foodstuffs?
I must honestly say that I haven't checked, because I am working on a new and much better graph.
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Is the Food Supply graph incorrectly reporting coverage now, or is every realm now a net producer of foodstuffs?
Except D'Hara!
Also, it will take a few days for Tom's food decrease to appear on the graph.
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That's a theme with you in this discussion. You speak a lot about things you have never seen. Why should the dev team listen to you?
Well don't, if the trading game is now solely reserved to traders. If that's your goal that we must rely on the traders for absolutely everything that deals with food, then keep it that way, and maybe they'll be able to do the things I feel everyone should be able to do. Or maybe they won't: I can't say, priests can't be traders.
You didn't like my example? Yet is was an extremely simple and probable one. Not an "if 1, and if 2, and if 3, and if 4, then X". See:
If you count the ten I just posted in Libidizedd, I can probably see at least 25. And almost all of those are Buys.
And that is, again, from an island location. When people are slowly starting to use it, but a lot still haven't.
I'm sorry, but I just feel the design is deficient. Without auto-buy and with offers not being able to be partially taken up, this can have no other possible consequence than offer spam. So maybe traders can partially match offers? So what? I'm TRYING to look at the class distribution chart, and can't say which of the tiny unidentified slices the traders are. Are only lord/traders allowed to comment and discuss the new system?
As a lord and duke, under the new system, I feel completely powerless over my duchy's food situation. The interface is also extremely awkward, with the offer spam, and unpleasant, with the notice spam.
I get that it's better code. I get that it helps to streamline a few operations. And I get that it's not meant as an upgrade of the old system, but as a replacement.
But I don't like it. The lowered range, the decreased flexibility, the lack of automatic purchases and sales, the forced expiry dates, the forced prices (even if they are in my realm's favor), the increased dependance on traders...
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http://battlemaster.org/Statistics.Trade.php (http://battlemaster.org/Statistics.Trade.php) Cool!
Well don't, if the trading game is now solely reserved to traders. If that's your goal that we must rely on the traders for absolutely everything that deals with food, then keep it that way, and maybe they'll be able to do the things I feel everyone should be able to do. Or maybe they won't: I can't say, priests can't be traders.
Stop lying.
Lords can place buy offers, like before. They can place sell offers, like before. They can by and sell food, like before.
Is the range shorter? No. You can travel to anywhere on the continent with a marketplace and you can buy and sell food with your region. In the old system, you could only buy/sell food from your home region--with the new system, you're not stuck in Paisly anymore. Travel the world and buy food! Your range has actually increased to wherever you care to travel--no longer do you have to depend on traders to do that for you.
As for offer spam, why do you care? Click the column headings and you can quickly find the cheapest offer, the offer that requires the least amount of gold, or the offer that offers the most food. Then buy the offer that floats to the top, and repeat as desired.
You don't need to worry about your duchy's food supply. That's what the banker--that's me--is for. Every region in D'Hara has at least a 30 day supply of food. I will make a lot of noise once any region hits the 14 day mark, I promise.
I agree that the notice spam is annoying, and should be turned into a daily summary.
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Well don't, if the trading game is now solely reserved to traders.
Shut up. I've had it with you in this discussion. All I've been asking is that you don't talk about stuff that you have no knowledge about. And instead of getting that knowledge and then coming back, you continue trolling this thread.
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Where are the automatic buy offers?
It's trolling to complain that I must not only continuously handle the food I actively go import, but also the food that others want to sell to me now? That the new system requires more time to be spent on it by the player, and requires more effort from the character?
It's trolling to state how instead of seeing a few offers available from a long dropdown of regions, I now see a large amount of offers from very few regions?
Egamma, I'm not going to "travel the world" when I'm a duke and there are always hostile realms surrounding us. I was never stuck in Paisly, I could always easily trade wherever I was at in the realm. Now few regions have marketplaces, and they don't reach any markets anyways. I'm relying on travelling nobles (traders) to bring me food, because I can't reach any of the exporters I used to be able to reach anymore without travelling for weeks to get out of D'Hara first.
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Well, you were always bragging about how D'Hara had more traders than anyone. Appoint one as your steward, and send him off to get you some food. Or have someone else relay the food.
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So basically people complained there was little point to the Trader subclass, so when the system is changed to increase their usefulness and reduce the ability to handle food without them, people complain as well. Yes, the system doesn't allow a Lord to just handle food all on their own, I think that was kind of the point. If a realm can't organise itself to supply the food it needs, then like a realm that can't organise their army against invaders, it kind of deserves to die.
If D'Haran markets can't reach the regions they used to, then you have 3 options
1) Use those traders we hear so much about
2) Get your trading partners to consolidate food somewhere you can reach
3) Starve
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automatic buy offers will never return - as the gold comes from the character, they simply can't work.
I am considering automatic sell offers - tell your region that whenever it has more than X food available, it should put Y of that on the market for a price of Z. That is fairly easy to add and makes sense. It also means that those who need the food need to make an effort, not those who have plenty, which also makes sense in my book.
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automatic buy offers will never return - as the gold comes from the character, they simply can't work.
I am considering automatic sell offers - tell your region that whenever it has more than X food available, it should put Y of that on the market for a price of Z. That is fairly easy to add and makes sense. It also means that those who need the food need to make an effort, not those who have plenty, which also makes sense in my book.
I like that as well--I've been traveling (through Golden farrow, then clockwise around Dwilight), and I've been wondering if I should stop and ask every single region lord if they have food for sale, or if I should just assume that if they had food, I would see it in a marketplace.
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I like that as well--I've been traveling (through Golden farrow, then clockwise around Dwilight), and I've been wondering if I should stop and ask every single region lord if they have food for sale, or if I should just assume that if they had food, I would see it in a marketplace.
Look at the statistics.
For the past days, there have been between 10k and 15k bushels in sell orders on the market.
Total food production (production graph, stacked) is about 35k.
So there's in total about a third of a daily food production available on the market. That's a pretty good number, so I think you can assume that if a region has no sell offers, it doesn't have food it wants to sell.
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I really like making some extra gold by selling food. It would be nice if once I press those orders, they ask me if I really want to accept the offer. - or does it do that already? Can't remember.
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I really like making some extra gold by selling food. It would be nice if once I press those orders, they ask me if I really want to accept the offer. - or does it do that already? Can't remember.
Probably not, in general I recall Tom isn't a fan of "Are you sure" systems.
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I really like making some extra gold by selling food. It would be nice if once I press those orders, they ask me if I really want to accept the offer. - or does it do that already? Can't remember.
If you don't really want to accept the offer, don't press the button. It is that easy.
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Yes, until you mess up on a smartphone with a touchscreen... its that kind of situation that an are you sure button is really for, Tom, not to ask you twice about something you made up your mind to do. To make sure you didn't press the wrong button.
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Yes, until you mess up on a smartphone with a touchscreen... its that kind of situation that an are you sure button is really for, Tom, not to ask you twice about something you made up your mind to do. To make sure you didn't press the wrong button.
So, do you want an "are you really sure?" dialog for the "are you sure?" button as well, because we can't be certain you meant THAT, either?
Sorry, I am not budging one inch on this. There will never, ever, EVER be "are you sure" dialogs in BM for anything that is less important than deleting a character or so.
And I can give you that "never, ever" in 100pt bold red, if that's what it takes. This is one of the Frequently Rejected requests, and I am not contributing to the pest that confirmation dialogs are. In fact, I held a keynote speech in front of 300 people just this Tuesday telling everyone to do away with confirmation dialogs wherever possible.
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If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. I'll just know who to place the blame on when I waste hours scouting ahead when I'm trying to drop siege engines.
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If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. I'll just know who to place the blame on when I waste hours scouting ahead when I'm trying to drop siege engines.
...the manufacturer of your crappy touchscreen?
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Look at the statistics.
For the past days, there have been between 10k and 15k bushels in sell orders on the market.
Total food production (production graph, stacked) is about 35k.
So there's in total about a third of a daily food production available on the market. That's a pretty good number, so I think you can assume that if a region has no sell offers, it doesn't have food it wants to sell.
Can your statistics show how much food on the markets is for unrestricted sale? I'm guessing that would be no more than 3K available, across Dwilight.
Or, how much is for unrestricted sale for 30 gold or less?
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Can your statistics show how much food on the markets is for unrestricted sale? I'm guessing that would be no more than 3K available, across Dwilight.
Or, how much is for unrestricted sale for 30 gold or less?
Luria had a few thousand up for unrestricted sale, no idea of the price though. Got to be quick though Giask is a hungry city.
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Can your statistics show how much food on the markets is for unrestricted sale? I'm guessing that would be no more than 3K available, across Dwilight.
Or, how much is for unrestricted sale for 30 gold or less?
over 6k available in unrestricted sales right now. 32 offers total. About half of them are at 30 gold or less.
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Luria had a few thousand up for unrestricted sale, no idea of the price though. Got to be quick though Giask is a hungry city.
No need to hurry, as I'm miles away from a marketplace so can't do anything trade related........but then again, I'm stupid for not putting 100 orders up before I went together with the army. ;P
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So if food is produced every day now, does this mean it's impossible to starve an enemy city without completely stopping its production, because a small amount of food will almost always be produced at the sunrise turn?
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Is the trade distance calculated as the crow flies, or as nobles move?
You are currently in Cailyn.
You are 347 miles from your realm, Desert of Silhouettes is the closest region.
Your advisor studies the maps, then proposes this route:
Cailyn - Shomrak - Elntorak - Shyussei - Nyuushi - Desert of Silhouettes
Taking this route, it would take you 116 hours, or 18 turns, to cover the total distance of 751 miles, assuming no travel delays.
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So if food is produced every day now, does this mean it's impossible to starve an enemy city without completely stopping its production, because a small amount of food will almost always be produced at the sunrise turn?
fwuvoghor is starting to go hungry... so i'm guessing it depends on what the deficit per day is. on the other hand, given food trade is immediate, what it produces is not necessarily the limiting factor.
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Is the trade distance calculated as the crow flies, or as nobles move?
As the noble flies if launched from an original Outer Tilog catapult. :-)
For simplicity, it's the crow.
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So if food is produced every day now, does this mean it's impossible to starve an enemy city without completely stopping its production, because a small amount of food will almost always be produced at the sunrise turn?
Starvation will set in even if there is a bit of production, because if it can't cover demand, then some people will starve.
How quickly and badly it gets depends on how much is produced vs. consumed.
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As the noble flies if launched from an original Outer Tilog catapult. :-)
For simplicity, it's the crow.
yeah. wondered about that... making it rather difficult to figure out range issues, if any exists, eg... http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=6592 because it's like comparing apples and pears.
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Starvation will set in even if there is a bit of production, because if it can't cover demand, then some people will starve.
How quickly and badly it gets depends on how much is produced vs. consumed.
Is that different to how it is on stable? I think a region on stable only starves if there's no food at all, right? If there's some food, but not enough to satisfy demand, then you get the "people are going hungry" message instead.
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think it really depends on how much food. don't know if it's true or not, but used to be people do half ration.. less than half is assumed to the same as no food.
chances are.. it's probably even more complicated than that..
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Is that different to how it is on stable? I think a region on stable only starves if there's no food at all, right? If there's some food, but not enough to satisfy demand, then you get the "people are going hungry" message instead.
It seems the new system is more realistic.
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automatic buy offers will never return - as the gold comes from the character, they simply can't work.
I am considering automatic sell offers - tell your region that whenever it has more than X food available, it should put Y of that on the market for a price of Z. That is fairly easy to add and makes sense. It also means that those who need the food need to make an effort, not those who have plenty, which also makes sense in my book.
Why does the gold need to come from the character, though? If the region starves, none of the knights get an income since production drops to zero. Why shouldn't everyone in the region be contributing to the purchase of food?
The biggest complaint when we switched to caravans was the lack of automation. It was eventually added in, though, albeit always bit buggy, but thankfully it superposed itself wit the old system that still allowed automatic sell or buy offers. Automation makes trading a lot more fun for everyone.
I don't see effort as a good thing, regardless of how much sense it might make, because of how unappealing resource managing is to most players.
I, for one, didn't want to have to deal with constantly renewing my offers. So I set them to the max duration allowed. Now, they expired, and I feel even less like putting them back up than before. When I sent caravans, yea, I had to do it every week or so. But at least the markets changed, there were strategic decisions to make, and it required some thought. But going back to the market every week to reset the same darn offers that expired from two weeks ago? That's just repetitive, requires no thinking, and is generally just an unproductive time-drain. The only difference between automation and manual offers, in this case, is that one wastes people's time.
No need to hurry, as I'm miles away from a marketplace so can't do anything trade related........but then again, I'm stupid for not putting 100 orders up before I went together with the army. ;P
This is what everyone who bothers to set trade offers does. Putting a ton of offers that would otherwise have been better replaced by an automatic offer.
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well... they are paying for it. you just have to up the lord's share to do that. or can appoint a steward so he spends his gold.
and if there are auto sell offers, then you don't need to set any offer. you just have to buy them when you see them.
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Why does the gold need to come from the character, though? If the region starves, none of the knights get an income since production drops to zero. Why shouldn't everyone in the region be contributing to the purchase of food?
Because that's how trading is done now, with bonds. Regions do not have bonds. Your steward can use his bonds to buy food too.
I, for one, didn't want to have to deal with constantly renewing my offers. So I set them to the max duration allowed. Now, they expired, and I feel even less like putting them back up than before. When I sent caravans, yea, I had to do it every week or so. But at least the markets changed, there were strategic decisions to make, and it required some thought. But going back to the market every week to reset the same darn offers that expired from two weeks ago? That's just repetitive, requires no thinking, and is generally just an unproductive time-drain. The only difference between automation and manual offers, in this case, is that one wastes people's time.
So don't create buy offers. Instead, transact my sell offers. If Paisly is out of range of Raviel, then ask Sir Francis to buy some of the food I have up for sale, and buy it off him.
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Question I have (which falls in line with the above, with the noble's troops starving in a region with no food):
I used caravans not only for trade, but to carry excess food "just in case" I was stuck in a starving region, so my troops wouldn't be impacted...
If caravans have gone bye-bye, can something minor be created as paraphrenalia, so a noble can be proactive in protecting their own troops (maybe even to avoid impacting a region's food, because they already have their own)? If not called a caravan, maybe just call it a "supply wagon"... they won't be able to sell to a region (which seems to be what you want) but they can buy and store food (or heck, even loot food).
Does bring up an interesting idea though... spend 3 hours on "Forage Food" if you want to see if you can get food for yourself, into your supply wagon, but doesn't damage the region's production, and isn't considered a hostile action against the region...?
"Extra rations" paraphernalia?
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That's actually an interesting idea. Though it would have to be a kind of used-up paraphernalia, and it needs fleshing out to make it less game-able (because it depends on the size of the unit, etc.)
The issue I see is that I don't see a way to really code it without making it almost as complicated as carrying food.
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That's actually an interesting idea. Though it would have to be a kind of used-up paraphernalia, and it needs fleshing out to make it less game-able (because it depends on the size of the unit, etc.)
The issue I see is that I don't see a way to really code it without making it almost as complicated as carrying food.
Just make it similar to the damage stat, for a start, with the number decreasing faster for larger units. Then we need some way to refill it, either through active looting, passive looting as discussed previously, buying rations in a city/stronghold/townsland, etc. I think you could start simple and then add to it later.
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That's actually an interesting idea. Though it would have to be a kind of used-up paraphernalia, and it needs fleshing out to make it less game-able (because it depends on the size of the unit, etc.)
The issue I see is that I don't see a way to really code it without making it almost as complicated as carrying food.
How about nobles being able to buy (but not sell) and carry a small amount of food (up to 50 bushels?), exclusively for their troops to eat? Seems pretty simple to me, as if they were all carrying half a caravan or so. Should food lack in the region and the troops eat from the reserves.
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Just make it similar to the damage stat, for a start, with the number decreasing faster for larger units. Then we need some way to refill it, either through active looting, passive looting as discussed previously, buying rations in a city/stronghold/townsland, etc. I think you could start simple and then add to it later.
It wouldn't even have to decrease faster for larger units, just adjust the price and food needed to fill it up in proportion to the size of the unit. In fact quite like the equip,emt damage stat.
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what... so you can buy tons of food with a tiny unit, then buy lots of men and have food auto scale up?
or buy a day's worth of food for 100 men, get 90 of them killed and have only a day's worth for 10 men remaining?
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what... so you can buy tons of food with a tiny unit, then buy lots of men and have food auto scale up?
or buy a day's worth of food for 100 men, get 90 of them killed and have only a day's worth for 10 men remaining?
Consider a weeks' rations to be included in the recruitment cost of a unit. As for the getting killed, if you assume that your men carry their rations with them, then perhaps they were lost in the battle. Or if you were routed, your men ran away and neglected to bring most of the food with them.
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eh... but these are extra rations in case they run into starving regions. ie.. the quartermaster holds them. they'll never get used unless they are starving.
don't really want to play supply line master...
why not just forget it. keeping gold on person is enough without having to carry food on person.
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There is already an existing value of how much troops consume. Why not using it? You carry an X amount of bushels with you, and consume them the same way troops consume food from a region. That way there is no way you can game it.
You can either have the troops get the food through the usual means (looting and buying), or require a special building for specially prepared travel rations (food exclusively for troops). Or you can mix them both, and make bought/looted bushels less effective (they consume more of it or some of it is lost in the way, little by little, regardless of being consumed or not).
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Or just get rid of troops taking casualties in starving regions completely. Is it really adding anything to the game to have such unrealistic events like collapsing from starvation the instant you cross a border into a hungry region?
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Rations idea split off here:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2121.0.html
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Or just get rid of troops taking casualties in starving regions completely. Is it really adding anything to the game to have such unrealistic events like collapsing from starvation the instant you cross a border into a hungry region?
Instant death from starving when you cross the imaginary line in the sand? No. A starvation affect from troops being stationed in regions without food? Yes. A delayed effect like Tom is looking at is preferable, if it can be made simple and relatively straightforward.