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Messages - BardicNerd

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46
Background / Re: Historical Duke/Margrave Dynamic
« on: October 16, 2012, 04:27:26 PM »
But the HRE was half of the area/period that BM is supposed to be based on. You can't ignore it as a special case!
Really, you could consider nearly everything in Europe a special case -- different areas and traditions did things differently.  The fact that there are special cases does not make them less valid or subject to being ignored, it just means that Europe was not a monolithic culture, and BM should not be as well.

47
Far East Island / Re: The War of the Hearth Right
« on: October 15, 2012, 05:36:26 PM »
The whole P.O.Z wanting to attack GA - prior to this war - with help from Kindara thing. That being a big decision maker for GA. That was a thing, right?
Sort of, but probably not as much of a thing as you think.

I think there were actual plans a while back when Aenilia had a different ruler and they simply would not talk to us, and we were trying to figure out how to get their attention, but lately it's mostly been grumbling at one thing or another they've done, and talk of how 'well, if they give us a real reason, we'll just have to go in there,' but no actual real invasion plans.

Aenilia's belief that we're going to attack them seems to mostly be a self-fulfilling prophecy as far as I can tell, they think we're going to invade, so they do annoying things, which makes us more upset, so they think we're going to attack more, so they do more things to piss us off. . . .

48
Far East Island / Re: The War of the Hearth Right
« on: October 15, 2012, 05:11:56 PM »
Zhao Ziyang was the Prince of Zonasa. He was killed in battle some time in...2005? 2006? Quite a while ago, anyway.

His daughter is Zhao Hoshi, formerly Zhao Hoshi Eiryn, Queen of Svunnetland. She is the rightful heir of the Principality. However, when Ziyang died, Hoshi was still Queen of Svunnetland, and did not wish to see Zonasa destroyed by coming under her rule. Thus, the regency was created. When Svunnetland was destroyed, Hoshi could not bring herself to take over for those who had been ruling Zonasa (partly because her player was, and is, somewhat inactive).

However, Hoshi is getting married now. By the ancient laws and customs of the land, that means that her husband will be a male heir to Ziyang...
Actually, it was more that Einar, ruler of Svunnetland, claimed that as Hoshi's husband, he should become prince.  Zonasa said 'no way,' since we didn't like him very much, and it was a war with him that killed Zhao and brought us down to one or two regions.  After a couple of different proposals, including if I recall one by Morgan that either Hoshi join Zonasa and rule it as a separate realm from Svunnetland, or else select a regent to do so . . . Hoshi actually gave up all claim to any inheritance going through her, and told Zonasa to select their own prince, after which Morgan became Zonasa's second prince.

Those were some fun times, unfortunately Morgan did not do well as prince and then I got severely ill and had to stop playing for a while, and it was about two years before I came back.

Well, I dunno how much they would have stuck to it if a few of us who remembered Ziyang hadn't joined recently ;)

...Actually, that's not fair. Morgan has been pretty staunch in his support of the principle that he is a regent for the House of Zhao, at least verbally.
Morgan also definitely counts as one of those who remembers Ziyang, though, given that he was basically his protege.  Morgan owes his political career to him (and to his servant, who was ennobled after Zhao's death -- the player's next character, who was Regent when I returned, and again gave me a leg up), and so if generally going to be nothing but respectful to the family.

The whole regent tradition started after I left, though (mostly -- I called myself regent for the first couple weeks I ruled after Zhao's death, but then I became prince), but Morgan is mostly happy to forget he was a prince at one point, because he didn't do terribly well . . . and he wants to eventually bring some reforms to have Zonasa just elect princes for life, and then he would be happy to return to being Duke . . . provided he can find someone he thinks would be good to push into the position of prince.  He likes to rule from behind the curtain more, really.

49
Helpline / Re: Looting
« on: October 14, 2012, 04:25:57 PM »
Now that you mention it, I think we experienced this some . . . will watch for it next time we are looting.

50
Far East Island / Re: The War of the Hearth Right
« on: October 14, 2012, 04:15:52 PM »
I think this also happened the last time we were looting in Ansopen, too.  Was surprised that no militia formed, but didn't think much of it at the time.

51
BM General Discussion / Re: Duke/Margrave Dynamic
« on: October 13, 2012, 10:49:13 AM »
In Zonasa, the ruler appoints the dukes, and the dukes get to appoint all the lords of any regions in their duchy, including margraves.  So the positions are separate, but if the duke wants what is probably the best region, they're free to give it to themselves.

Though I've been moving towards combining one region duchies with larger ones, so we (until the stronghold was [strike]taken[/strike] borrowed by Cathay) had a duchy with both a city and a stronghold, and if the duke of either Batesoar or Alanurs gives their position up for some reason, we'll probably have a duchy with two cities.  In which case I think we'd have three duchies that each have two margraves in them (due to a townsland margrave) which would probably be a pretty firm case of dukes and margraves being different even if most of the dukes still made themselves margraves.

52
Helpline / Re: Looting
« on: October 10, 2012, 11:00:49 PM »
If you want to drive it rogue, you're really going to have to go for the harsher options, like kill, rape, and burn.
I dare you guys to do this. . . .

53
Development / Re: Sea Travel Feedback
« on: October 10, 2012, 09:29:15 PM »
It shouldn't. Please everyone get me data on this, the two values should be identical.
It happens with land travel, too -- during winter travel times go up, they seem to go down now.  It was reported as a bug a month ago: http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7318

54
BM General Discussion / Re: Rogue Judges
« on: October 09, 2012, 06:06:38 PM »
Because game mechanics are true, but not always right. That's what "abusing a bug" or "using an exploit" means - you found a way in which the game mechanics work in a specific way that they really shouldn't.
Sure -- but until you specifically say that game mechanics shouldn't work in a certain way, other people might sometimes assume that they should indeed work the way that they always have.  Some things that turn out to be abuses can in fact seem reasonable to many people. . . .

55
BM General Discussion / Re: Rogue Judges
« on: October 09, 2012, 05:01:33 AM »
The only possible justification I can see for this is that the game mechanics allowed you to do it. So apparently our morals and sense of fair play should be defined solely by what the game allows us to do, with no actual input from our own selves. Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.
I tend to agree, however, Tom's dictate that 'mechanics trump RP' suggests that mechanics should play the most important part, rather than 'what makes sense.'

Note that rulers used to be able to mechanically strip someone of all their titles and such.  They can't anymore.  So since we have to work within the mechanics given by the game, the framework we are given is that people do not just follow what the ruler says is true when the ruler declares someone a traitor -- and that such words may in fact just be that, words.

The mechanics of the situation -- which in BM equals the reality of the situation, for better or for worse -- is that the judge has considerable power, and that people listen to them so long as they are still judge, and that if the ruler says they are a traitor -- well, maybe it's just politics, and maybe the judge is in the right, because the judge is the one who can ban someone as a traitor, after all, not the ruler.

In BM, a ruler only has as much power as the players let them get away with.  Mechanics wise, the judge is probably more powerful.  So in BM's version of reality . . . this is realistic.

So, yes, while Tom has now stated that it is against the spirit of the game (though I am not sure I understand or agree with his reasoning), I think that it is easy to see why before he made that statement, one might have thought this was a fine thing, and have a reasonable and civil discussion about it (though it is the time of year in America when civil discussion gets thrown out the window, so . . . we're doing better than that, I think).

56
Development / Re: Little incentive to separate Dukes and Margraves
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:51:40 PM »
The tax thing doesn't concern me too much. I just crank up the ruler's tax share until I get what I need. Or I borrow a region from Vellos. Both methods seem to work pretty well.
Don't worry, we'll come pick it back up soon, but thanks for taking care of it for us meanwhile.


Margraves and dukes are in theory separate in Zonasa, but since almost all of our old dukes still have their positions, things haven't yet changed much . . . and I don't know it they will, since dukes in Zonasa have the final say (really, the only say, the council will sometimes give advice, but mostly just if asked) over the lords of regions in their duchy.  The one new duke we have had appointed themselves as Margrave of Palnasos . . . we do have one margrave (or did, until a certain region was borrowed) who isn't a duke since the duchy of Haul was abolished.

57
BM General Discussion / Re: If your realm..
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:37:40 PM »
Hah, I like that.

58
BM General Discussion / Re: Rogue Judges
« on: October 08, 2012, 11:36:47 PM »
AFAIK, kicking over the table when playing chess is not explicitly forbidden by the official chess rules - and yet I am quite sure that it would not be considered an allowed move.
I think my problem is that I'm not sure that's a good analogy.  If he did everything in character, then a much better analogy would be a stab in Diplomacy.  Kicking over the table would probably be a more appropriate analogy for hacking the server.  Spying, treason, and politics are part of BM, and I think it's valid for someone engaged in such things to think that so long as they did everything IC, if the mechanics allow them to use a position they've been given to massively screw over the realm they've been betraying, that it's kosher.

Obviously, you didn't intend for it to be seen this way -- but I think it is very understandable that someone would see it this way.

59
Development / Re: Little incentive to separate Dukes and Margraves
« on: October 08, 2012, 07:52:10 AM »
It should be noted that it's not always possible for the ruler to make the decision to separate the two positions, since the ruler can no longer appoint lords.  So if there isn't a margrave when the duke is appointed, or if it becomes vacant later on, it's entirely up to the new duke to decide who to appoint . . . which for most people would probably be themselves (though some places may have elections, though of course they can appoint themselves before the election finishes).

60
Far East Island / Re: The War of the Hearth Right
« on: September 27, 2012, 04:57:36 PM »
Possibly.  I'm not sure the looting directly caused Haul to go rogue, though, I think it was mostly the starvation (which seemed to have surprisingly little effect upon the troops there).

Sending Razrpot or Azarons rogue would have been far worse for us that sending Haul rogue, so while damage was done, I still think far less damage than could have been done was done.

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