Fontan's Surprising Strength

[feyeleanor]

Fontan is attempting to retake their realm from those that have taken it over. But it is hard.  The Chancellor of Fontan is their leader and they have the position of General as well. we just took back the position of judge in our latest election.

I don't think it's fair to characterise the election that way. Lord Justin has been in Fontan for years, as has Chancellor Aulus. It's true Minister Lyzekiel is rubbing a number of established characters up the wrong way, and I suspect there'll be trouble from that, but he's only just won his second term as a wartime General and his majority was nothing out of the ordinary.

They seem to be running Fontan like a dictatorship under the guise of a democracy. they do not use the assembly and no one votes for anything now.  the chancellor made it so regions are  not voted upon but appointed by him. 

This is nothing compared to Tal's reign. He wanted to declare himself king :)

I'm no fan of cliquish players, and my old character Moira spent much of her career arguing with the then government of Fontan IC over pretty much these same issues. Sometimes she was successful, sometimes less so.

It has gotten to the point that I am seriously considering leaving Fontan, Though I am not sure where to go. They are destroying the fun and democratic atmosphere of the realm.

I hope you decide not to leave as Fontan can only remain a democracy whilst there are players who want that to happen.

[Velax]

Blah, blah, blah. If you want the reason why people who are perhaps innocent of all this crap get drawn in, you need only look in the mirror. The second you and your clan decided to use the family gold exploit, you ensured this was going follow you wherever you went. The Saxons escaped punishment only because the devs never thought the mechanic would be so blatantly abused. Did you really think anyone even vaguely involved in that would ever be trusted again? Really? As for the rest of it, feel free to rant away. You have your slant on things, I have mine. And by the posts here, I'm certainly not the only one who thinks the way I do.

[The Arch Saxon]

Blah, blah, blah. If you want the reason why people who are perhaps innocent of all this crap get drawn in, you need only look in the mirror. The second you and your clan decided to use the family gold exploit, you ensured this was going follow you wherever you went. The Saxons escaped punishment only because the devs never thought the mechanic would be so blatantly abused. Did you really think anyone even vaguely involved in that would ever be trusted again? Really? As for the rest of it, feel free to rant away. You have your slant on things, I have mine. And by the posts here, I'm certainly not the only one who thinks the way I do.

Ah the true master of misdirection, something you had the nerve to accuse another poster of.

Well, as I thought, when it comes to actually defending what you say, you don't have the means, you don't have the balls and you're just wasting everyone's time.

[Velax]

I wasn't aware I had to defend myself. I have stated my opinion. Repeatedly. I don't feel the need to do so again. Shouldn't you get back to getting whatever realm you're a part of destroyed? You seem pretty good at that, despite the clan.

[The Arch Saxon]

I wasn't aware I had to defend myself. I have stated my opinion. Repeatedly. I don't feel the need to do so again. Shouldn't you get back to getting whatever realm you're a part of destroyed? You seem pretty good at that, despite the clan.

I never played Battlemaster to have to defend my actions on an Out of Character level, but it seems I do, and yet you won't even hold yourself to the same standard you hold others?

You do have to defend yourself, if you are going to go around insulting, attacking and accusing other players you should have the basic decency to stand by what you said, to take responsibility for your actions and not employ the childish response to the effect of "I don't have to take this!" -storms of while sending another O.O.C. Accusations and petty remarks. If you don't want to be held accountable for what you say and do, don't do it, if you don't want a player to defend himself from your attacks, don't attack him, well you were having a lot of fun attacking me all over the forum and game when I didn't stand up for myself weren't you?

I only came on the forum to finally defend myself, something I have pointedly refused to do for over a year, I shouldn't have to, but I do. Likewise I expected you to be worth the effort, but you weren't. You walk around attacking people, then crying when they challenge you on it. Really, you are the ultimate definition of WAINGAFAT, you can have your petty remarks, and you can have the last word if you want, but everyone else here has seen the Out of Character tirade you went on against me and other players, and how when challenged on, when asked to defend it and reason it, and to discuss it, you whined and moaned and refused to, so my post has achieved what I came here to achieve - it shows that the people who accuse me of these things, don't have a leg to stand on, they don't have proof, they don't even have the means to argue >for< it, they can only make silly little remarks that many players can already see are not worth the time of actual, decent players.

[Kellaine]

Thank you for your input.

But I am not the only one that sees their actions as clanish to the point of powergaming. Tom sees it too and simply has not done anything as he needs proof of it.

And toms message to the realm would not have happened on the word of only one player.

[Velax]

I can't figure out if you think that maybe if you bluster enough, people might believe you, or if you truly think you've never done anything wrong.

The most recent changes to family gold were back when Thulsoma was still abusing the system, and I don't believe this was one of the changes made then—it was already there.

David D is Vanimedle...you know, Haruka Vanimedle, the leader of the Thulsoma "Saxons"?

I believe someone (was it Bedwyr?) also mentioned that Tom had warned those in Arcachon a while ago about clanning. Hey, just when you were there! What a co-incidence.

Here you are caught in a lie when trying to defend yourself against other accusations of OOC clanning:

Most of the family homes in Storms Keep, were manually moved to Storms Keep

I can say with some certainty that this is simply false.

Do I have quotes to prove Arcachon, Aurvandil, etc are clanning? Of course not. It's simply an observation that wherever you go, a large number of players tend to follow you, and small realms with poor incomes suddenly put together large armies with well above average movement rates. Doesn't take a genius to figure out something's off, does it? And the fact that Tom and the devs have said what they've said here, rather than shutting people down for "insulting, attacking and accusing other players" implies they think something's a bit fishy too, doesn't it?

As for Averoth, if they're being hated on, then I think they're getting what they deserve for supporting the most hated realm on Dwilight, and having such close ties with the so-called "Saxons".  I don't know about anyone else, but I have found the Vanimedlé player to be one of the more annoying I have encountered in my time here, and I've never even been in the same realm with any of his characters.

That last one doesn't "prove" anything. I just found it amusing.

[Draco Tanos]

Since then Fontan has allowed Westmoor more than enough opportunities to sign the peace treaty agreed subsequent to the ceasefire but King Jor seemed determined to keep removing equitable terms and replacing them with terms wholly advantageous to Westmoor, which was not a fair reflection of the military situation at the time of the ceasefire.

King Jor must think that starting a war now and displaying Westmoor's usual military competence will drag Perdan and Caligus in, allowing him to gain Fontan's lands as a gift from them. There's no other reasonable justification for picking a war which his realm is very likely to lose.

You know, Fontan likes saying there was a peace treaty an awful lot when there was none presented by them.  I think they must have phantom scribes or something.

[Revan]

The second you and your clan decided to use the family gold exploit, you ensured this was going follow you wherever you went. ... Did you really think anyone even vaguely involved in that would ever be trusted again? Really?

So because they used an exploit a year or so ago they are to be harangued and pilloried until they all leave the game? Fair play, that's not a glorious moment in their past. But there are players who have been done for multi-cheating and returned to be decent players. There are other people who have benefited from exploits and yet they're not being hounded simply for daring to still play. There doesn't appear to be any evidence at all the people you're talking about have returned to ill ways, so how long do you hold this against them?

That last one doesn't "prove" anything. I just found it amusing.

Why even bother digging that up? Very petty.

This doesn't prove anything either, but I played in Bara'Khur when Vanimedle and a few of his OOC friends joined the realm. That they were a clique became known to Bara'Khur quite early on, but we got on with it and there was always a good amount of fun to be had in the endless internal politicking in the realm. When a Vanimedle eventually got into power, it was only after we of the old guard splintered and basically turned on each other. I endorsed a Vanimedle at that point and got into religion, though Bara'Khur was already on a path to fracture.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I actually had a good time when playing alongside a Vanimedle. Even if, occasionally, the existence of a clique did sometimes cause tensions. Maybe I'd have a different opinion if they'd actually won an attempted rebellion when I was briefly in power, but that's where game mechanics making rebellions one player, one character affairs come in. That and my mad rebellion skillz ;-)

[Geronus]

Well the only way to find it out is to join them and see how they do it. Too bad I made a character in Perdan .

I don't think it is too hard to reach such CS. CS diminishes as you hire more men but rises quickly when you have a low number of men which means you just need to make everyone hire even number of men to reach the maximum efficiency. Have you guys seen the battle report between Westmoor and Fontan? or other Saxon battle reports? Hits from Westmoor were being dispersed over 25-30 people (some hits weren't enough to wound).

Having 2 people with 1000 CS isn't as good as having 5 people with 200 CS each.

We had the same problem fighting Averoth, which was made up of basically the same people.

[Geronus]

Well there isn't much proof. All we know is where ever they "go" there is a sudden rise in noble count and military strength. Also, look at Fontans size do you really think they can pull of a 16000 CS army. Also, almost 100% movement on almost 100% of the time is something to be wary about as well, eh?

Averoth was made up of 5 of the poorest, crappiest regions ever, mostly sub 150g income. And they managed to field 14k CS at their height, with 40 some-odd nobles. Do not doubt what these people can accomplish.

[T Strike]

I think it took around 5 realms to take Averoth down in there capital... A stronghold region.

[Lorgan]

Just imagine them like the Mongol hordes. War is their life.

The more I read here and elsewhere the less convinced I am they are actually ruining the game for people. Except maybe those that used to be in power in Fontan.

Oh and I bet medieval nobles weren't too happy about the Mongols arriving at their borders either.

[Draco Tanos]

Mongols didn't integrate into realms and pretend to be them so they could seize power.

And no, we've actually had long standing EC players, like Corwin, say they're considering at least leaving the island outright so long as the "Saxons" are there because he had to put up with them elsewhere as well.

[Geronus]

I think it took around 5 realms to take Averoth down in there capital... A stronghold region.

That's how many were involved, but the battles were not close. We completely crushed them. We might easily have done it with less. Of course we'd learned hard lessons fighting Thulsoma, so we applied maximum force for no other reason than that we were sick and tired of dealing with these characters and we could.

In response to the overall thread it is unfortunate that this particular group of players gets pilloried regularly, but speaking as someone who dealt with them for a long time, they are very frustrating to interact with. They're highly unpleasant IC, at least to those they have identified as enemies. They are also incredibly efficient in comparison to other realms, so much so that they almost always provoke suspicion and disbelief from their opponents. When what you're seeing goes drastically against the norm that you've observed everywhere else for years, one almost can't help but wonder if cheating or clanning is involved. I know I certainly suspected as much when I first encountered them, although it turns out in my case that I was justified once the family gold loophole exploit was revealed.

In response to Arch Saxon, it's not that those who were in Thulsoma are now permanently tarred so much as it is that the same pattern observed there has continued to repeat itself over and over again in realms populated by a particular group of families. It is this group that has come to be known by the OOC moniker of 'Saxons' since Thulsoma is where the pattern began, or at least where it became (in)famous.

I know the pattern well by now. It can almost always be traced to a particular group of players. I don't think they necessarily cheat either, but they almost certainly power game. There's no other word for how they're able to be so efficient in comparison to other realms. In response to Lorgan, I will say that they make very challenging enemies from the mechanical point of view, and they really make you hate them IC, but no thank you. I found dealing with them to be a very unpleasant and stressful experience as a player, and I can tell you that I'd be more than a little bitter if they'd succeeded in destroying what my character built due to the methods that they use. No one likes playing against a poor sport, which they are in both IC and OOC senses in my opinion.