Southern War of Nobility (Civil war in Madina)

[Chenier]

On topic though. I suppose that's probably what I was thinking, or the direction my thoughts were taking me. Can't say I give it all that much thought - other priorities - but I guess I am of the opinion that Madina could beat Aurvandil because as much as the latter have some benefits, I don't think that is sufficient to explain the fact that they are on a par, or even weighing in more heavily on Aurvandil's side. If it continues, I'd suspect the conquest of the Tower might open some eyes. But, by then, Madina can't hope for a complete victory. Their only choice by then is to try stave off too harsh a defeat. Aurvandil is not the most peaceful of realms and I can't be the only one to think that they have more than plenty of nobles to literally eat up Madina. I don't know if they will or if the Bay of Candiels will be renamed the Bay of Misfortune, but as someone who doesn't particularly like (or dislike) either side I have to say the odds look to be in Aurvandil's favour despite not having their regions of Evanburg and Lusitania right now.

I dunno. I'd nearly prefer a conclusion one way or another at this stage. Its something to talk about, but until its all settled the Lurians get away with their pesky revolts, revolutions and rebellions. And yeah, every time they still stick with monarchies. What's with that? Where's the republican influence?

Finn.

Madinians are too greedy and egoistical, that's why they haven't won yet.

[Shizzle]

Madinians are too greedy and egoistical, that's why they haven't won yet.

They lack cohesion and leadership, or so does it seem. And I'm pretty sure Aurvandil gets supplies/aid from the Moot, whereas Madina only gets a few thousand CS from Fissoa.

Don't tell wether Aurvandil gets aid, though. I consider that IC information, and I'd rather not know OOC

[Carna]

The Moot is not funding either side preferentially. Well, okay, Barca is handing over a rich townsland again for no meaningful gain, but Madina's fine with that. They damn near approve. And sure, D'Hara is buying every spare bushel from Aurvandil and is extremely hesitant to pay Madina its higher price, but that's as much on Madina as it is on D'Hara, and if Madina isn't selling its food now, they might be forced to reconsider their price if they want to match Aurvandil on the field, or sea.

To state that the 'Moot favours one side or the other would be inane though. The Moot favours no one because they're the EU, not the US. Foreign policy can be determined as a group, but the only real agreement that's been reached in the Moot on this subject is to stay out of it. Not surprising when there are Duke's from D'Hara that favour Aurvandil, Duke's from Barca that favour Madina (if they're forced to favour either), other leaders in Barca that favour Aurvandil, and sensible leadership from Terran who want us to stay out of it as much as possible. Putting it this way, my character is likely the richest in Barca but the last place he'd send any gold is to Aurvandil. Chenier is likely the richest noble in D'Hara (or at least the most influential) but he's one of the biggest warmongers with a realm that was previously their largest supplier. Personally, I expect a bit of starvation in D'Hara will tame any thoughts of war that might be afoot and neutrality will rule. If they want to eat, at least.

I bring this up because, lets face it, as much as Hireshmont is the defacto leader of the Moot, he's really just the public face (obviously with a weighty voice) and the policies are determined by the individual realms. The individual realms won't act without the Federation, so little action of consequence takes place. Could there be funds being funnelled to Aurvandil by the Moot? Certainly. But I've not heard as much as a whisper about it and so if it is happening, its not from the Moot but from D'Hara. And frankly, I doubt it even then. Their "lets help Aurvandil" attitude seems recent enough to me. That doesn't mean they won't or haven't started in the last week or two. After all, fund Aurvandil to expand throughout Madina and your cheap food supplier has more food to supply your growing cities. D'Harans, that is a hint.

Finn.

[Vellos]

Don't tell wether Aurvandil gets aid, though. I consider that IC information, and I'd rather not know OOC

I've often wondered where this perception comes from. Hireshmont does personally fund quite a few things in quite a few nations, but the idea that he would be personally financing Aurvandil or Madina is laughable to anyone in the Moot... and the number of people willing and able to put the effort into foreign aid of any meaningful scale is... very few. Labell might, but doesn't care enough about the south. Fyodor and O'domus... no way. The D'Haran dukes might be willing, but their gold all goes to buying food. And I find the idea of Farsil funding foreigners equally amusing.

[Carna]

I've often wondered where this perception comes from. Hireshmont does personally fund quite a few things in quite a few nations, but the idea that he would be personally financing Aurvandil or Madina is laughable to anyone in the Moot... and the number of people willing and able to put the effort into foreign aid of any meaningful scale is... very few. Labell might, but doesn't care enough about the south. Fyodor and O'domus... no way. The D'Haran dukes might be willing, but their gold all goes to buying food. And I find the idea of Farsil funding foreigners equally amusing.

Farsil has plenty of stuff in Barca to fund. Let Candiels fund Aurvandil and Madina fund, well, Madina.

[Telrunya]

Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.

[Chenier]

The Moot is not funding either side preferentially. Well, okay, Barca is handing over a rich townsland again for no meaningful gain, but Madina's fine with that. They damn near approve. And sure, D'Hara is buying every spare bushel from Aurvandil and is extremely hesitant to pay Madina its higher price, but that's as much on Madina as it is on D'Hara, and if Madina isn't selling its food now, they might be forced to reconsider their price if they want to match Aurvandil on the field, or sea.

To state that the 'Moot favours one side or the other would be inane though. The Moot favours no one because they're the EU, not the US. Foreign policy can be determined as a group, but the only real agreement that's been reached in the Moot on this subject is to stay out of it. Not surprising when there are Duke's from D'Hara that favour Aurvandil, Duke's from Barca that favour Madina (if they're forced to favour either), other leaders in Barca that favour Aurvandil, and sensible leadership from Terran who want us to stay out of it as much as possible. Putting it this way, my character is likely the richest in Barca but the last place he'd send any gold is to Aurvandil. Chenier is likely the richest noble in D'Hara (or at least the most influential) but he's one of the biggest warmongers with a realm that was previously their largest supplier. Personally, I expect a bit of starvation in D'Hara will tame any thoughts of war that might be afoot and neutrality will rule. If they want to eat, at least.

I bring this up because, lets face it, as much as Hireshmont is the defacto leader of the Moot, he's really just the public face (obviously with a weighty voice) and the policies are determined by the individual realms. The individual realms won't act without the Federation, so little action of consequence takes place. Could there be funds being funnelled to Aurvandil by the Moot? Certainly. But I've not heard as much as a whisper about it and so if it is happening, its not from the Moot but from D'Hara. And frankly, I doubt it even then. Their "lets help Aurvandil" attitude seems recent enough to me. That doesn't mean they won't or haven't started in the last week or two. After all, fund Aurvandil to expand throughout Madina and your cheap food supplier has more food to supply your growing cities. D'Harans, that is a hint.

Finn.

If Madina wants to export more, then they need to lower their prices or we'll buy from Aurvandil. If they keep looting Aurvandil food, though, that'll seriously piss us off.

Is Machiavel the richest? I don't know, I haven't compared my income lately. I *used* to be, but things changed over the last few months.

He's not a warmonger, though. He's preached on-intervention more often than intervention. He is, however, a bit emotional and volatile when his food sources are threatened, however. After all, both sides have points weighting in their favor and against them.

Though this is starting to leak what should be purely IG knowledge onto public OOC mediums, I'll say I don't know of any funding of anyone for any party, other than Barca's region loan. You might be misunderstanding some of the letters sent if you think D'Hara said it was doing so in the moot.

Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.

Funny thing is, most of my multi-thousand gold positive balance for VE was from when I was marquis of Paisland, and that is *before* Paisly started paying for food.

Wealth is all about what you do with it. If you lead a unit, then that's a huge money pit right there, something I never had to deal with (since long long long ago) on Dwi as a priest.

But I too doubt they would fund anyone.

[Vellos]

Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.

True, had not thought of that. And I suppose Terran's townsland lords are fairly well off to. But two of'em field units, and all of Metis' gold is poured into Triunism.

[egamma]

Don't count out D'Harans Townsland Lords though. They are quite wealthy too, but I doubt they would fund anyone.

Paranoid much? 

As a D'Haran townsland lord AND trader, I'll let you know that my food goes to buying food--and repaying the family for the double-investment I made in Paisly and Port Raviel after the capital move.

The reason I hate to buy from Madina is that prior to this war, they refused to sell to me--and when a region lord had food for sale at 50 or 60 gold per bushel, they complained that I purchased it! Gornak has a long, long memory, and he has no reason to believe that if Madina returns to a non-emergency state, that the region lords wouldn't shut down on food exports under the regular constitutional rules.

[Chenier]

Paranoid much? 

As a D'Haran townsland lord AND trader, I'll let you know that my food goes to buying food--and repaying the family for the double-investment I made in Paisly and Port Raviel after the capital move.

The reason I hate to buy from Madina is that prior to this war, they refused to sell to me--and when a region lord had food for sale at 50 or 60 gold per bushel, they complained that I purchased it! Gornak has a long, long memory, and he has no reason to believe that if Madina returns to a non-emergency state, that the region lords wouldn't shut down on food exports under the regular constitutional rules.

Indeed, Madina has a history of being a bad and unfriendly trading partner.

[Indirik]

I've often wondered where this perception comes from.

If I had to guess I'd say it's a mix of things. The OOC impression given by various Veinsormoot members on the forums is that they prefer Aurvandil over Madina, and would be happy if Aruvandil took out Madina. Then there's the "WTF? How are they supporting 28KCS on their crappy income? Someone must be giving them lots of gold!" factor.... If not the Veinsormoot members, then who?

Oh, and also: Buying food constitutes support. And we know that at least D'Hara buys food from Aurvandil. Hence: The Veinsormoot supports Aurvandil. At least that's what it looks like over on this side of the monitor.

[Chenier]

If I had to guess I'd say it's a mix of things. The OOC impression given by various Veinsormoot members on the forums is that they prefer Aurvandil over Madina, and would be happy if Aruvandil took out Madina. Then there's the "WTF? How are they supporting 28KCS on their crappy income? Someone must be giving them lots of gold!" factor.... If not the Veinsormoot members, then who?

Oh, and also: Buying food constitutes support. And we know that at least D'Hara buys food from Aurvandil. Hence: The Veinsormoot supports Aurvandil. At least that's what it looks like over on this side of the monitor.

We also trade with Madina.

[Geronus]

We also trade with Madina.

You do? You make it sound like you'd rather eat your own arm.

[Telrunya]

Madina and D'Hara always have some difficulties communicating which causes some frustrations now and then, but overall we're doing continued trading with Madina as well. And some D'Harans do support Madina more then Aurvandil.

[egamma]

You do? You make it sound like you'd rather eat your own arm.

Well...sometimes the peasants are actually hungry enough to eat OUR arms, so we buy food from Madina.