Southern War of Nobility (Civil war in Madina)

[De-Legro]

Pfff. Damages from wars are relative, since they aren't permanent. Wouldn't be so hard to stuff down people's throat that it would be "better for civilization" on the long run. Plus that faith doesn't have everyone follow it either.

I'll believe it the day they come to D'Hara and Fissoa with a non-aggression pact proposal.

True, but the King of one Lurian realm is the prophet of the religion, thus you are left only facing a single realm, hardly able to force imperialism down anyone's throat. Besides the Dominant religion from LN is trying to expand into Fissoa, so they are hardly going to take kindly to a war against them.

[Chenier]

True, but the King of one Lurian realm is the prophet of the religion, thus you are left only facing a single realm, hardly able to force imperialism down anyone's throat. Besides the Dominant religion from LN is trying to expand into Fissoa, so they are hardly going to take kindly to a war against them.

Doesn't change the first point. "Damage to civilization" is easy to game. Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a "protector of civilization".

[De-Legro]

Doesn't change the first point. "Damage to civilization" is easy to game. Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a "protector of civilization".

That should read, "Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a protector of civilization without decent proof"

[Chenier]

That should read, "Only a fool would trust a foreigner that claims himself to be a protector of civilization without decent proof"

Nah, I deem it as inevitable that "civilization" in the sense of mankind eventually fade away to a more nationalistic take of "civilization" as the concept is recycled by local elites to push their own agendas.

It's but a matter of time before other civilizations are "not civilized enough", and that they require "tutorage" of some kind.

Nothing can prove such a thing will never happen, so I stand by my original statement.

[De-Legro]

Nah, I deem it as inevitable that "civilization" in the sense of mankind eventually fade away to a more nationalistic take of "civilization" as the concept is recycled by local elites to push their own agendas.

It's but a matter of time before other civilizations are "not civilized enough", and that they require "tutorage" of some kind.

Nothing can prove such a thing will never happen, so I stand by my original statement.

Which is possibly why The Manifest Path spends the time it does trying to spread the faith and bring nobles from other realms into the leadership positions. Would be much harder for any one realm to push their agenda once the faith has prominent members from many realms.

[Ramiel]

Which is possibly why The Manifest Path spends the time it does trying to spread the faith and bring nobles from other realms into the leadership positions. Would be much harder for any one realm to push their agenda once the faith has prominent members from many realms.

Much to my annoyance as the Lurian nationalistic fanatic!

[Chenier]

Which is possibly why The Manifest Path spends the time it does trying to spread the faith and bring nobles from other realms into the leadership positions. Would be much harder for any one realm to push their agenda once the faith has prominent members from many realms.

Yea, well, if it didn't sound and look like just a tool for Lurian cultural imperialism, maybe that'd work better.

[De-Legro]

Yea, well, if it didn't sound and look like just a tool for Lurian cultural imperialism, maybe that'd work better.

The process is going fine actually, but thanks for being concerned.

[Chenier]

The process is going fine actually, but thanks for being concerned.

I'm sure it is.

[Bedwyr]

Pfff. Damages from wars are relative, since they aren't permanent. Wouldn't be so hard to stuff down people's throat that it would be "better for civilization" on the long run. Plus that faith doesn't have everyone follow it either.

Not easy, but not impossible.  And it has the Rulers, all the (city) dukes, most of the region lords, and the majority of the population in Luria.

I'll believe it the day they come to D'Hara and Fissoa with a non-aggression pact proposal.

You mean like the current discussions on an alliance/federation with Fissoa?  D'hara is another matter entirely, of course, for both personal and religious reasons.  People who routinely starve their cities into revolt are easy to justify as uncivilized.

[Geronus]

You mean like the current discussions on an alliance/federation with Fissoa?  D'hara is another matter entirely, of course, for both personal and religious reasons.  People who routinely starve their cities into revolt are easy to justify as uncivilized.

I don't know if you were trying to be ironic, but you just proved Chenier's point perfectly.

[Chenier]

I don't know if you were trying to be ironic, but you just proved Chenier's point perfectly.

Precisely.

The irony comes from the fact that Luria starved their own cities intentionally, and that Giask did revolt to us a few times as well.

[DoctorHarte]

Anyways, back to the subject of this topic... nothing has happened on the southern front.   

[Bedwyr]

I don't know if you were trying to be ironic, but you just proved Chenier's point perfectly.

Please don't confuse me with De-Legro.  I have never claimed that the Manifest Path won't be used to justify wars on the basis of better caretakers of civilization.  That's official policy, as anyone can see on the wiki.

The irony comes from the fact that Luria starved their own cities intentionally, and that Giask did revolt to us a few times as well.

Two points:

1. Starving a city in a realm at war with yours is not the same as your own cities starving when you have no hordes to speak of attacking you and no wars ongoing.

2. Koli founding the Manifest Path was a direct reaction to the things he ordered in the Giaskan Civil War.  He's quite open about his penitent status, and thinks the starving of Giask in that war was the most heinous crime he ever committed in a war filled with horrors.

[Carna]

I think the Véinsørmoot should charge King Koli with war crimes in a couple of game years. Call up a few of the Barcans who were there as witnesses, invite Koli (alone) to Paisley if he wishes to defend himself and so forth. The less than bright characters can talk of eradicating the Zuma - hah! - but I figure this would be far more entertaining.

I'd give SA a bigger chance of spreading to the southwest than TMP spreading anywhere beyond the southeast. As Matt's stated above, TMP's little more than a justification for imperial expansion. Still, lets face it, its a new religion that could have quite a different "message" by the time its in any position to spread beyond the Lurian realms. I may have some prejudice as to the reason for its existance, but my character's never so much as heard of the religion. The only southeasterners who've went west, departed before the religion was even founded. More is known of CB and SA than TMP (not saying much), but that itself could work to the religion's benefit as there's no stigma attached to the latter. Blatant expansionism might be the call of the day, but that doesn't mean that has to be the story IC, at least for the time being. "We're peace loving hippies" could just as easily be believable in the beginning and provide the religion with a foothold before any Lurian Invasion.

Yip. Nothing has happened on the southern front. Isn't that the story of the war from the start? Sure, there's been a few tragic attempts at attacking from one side or the other, but they've been forgettable. Mainly because who wants to remember such disasters as the last attack on the Tower or Madina's top-notch strategy? Get back to me when you've done something, Harte! Which is harsh, I'll admit, and said (or typed) without the intention to insult. More a "get a move on" message. Suits your neighbours that you don't since we've picked up some of your bored nobles already and will possibly pick up a few more as things drag on, but that's an IC perspective. OOCly, it has to be boring as hell sitting in two cities (or a city and a stronghold) with little enough to do.

How do you keep yourself logging in?