Phoenix Empire

[Perth]

Yeah, lulz if CE is the first applicant.

[Vellos]

Wait...

Is Cora saying they are actually going to fight CE?

If so, that's literally the dumbest thing I've heard in BM in a while. "Oh yeah, our major friendly allies north of us, who really liked us and tried hard to help us, are ruined– NOW let's join the fight!"

I assumed this was going to be a successor-entity to the Northern Alliance: not a means of continuing this same war.

[Eirikr]

So, yes, the CE has already been granted permission to join if they so choose. As such, denying them permission is now moot. What they choose to actually do is where things get interesting.

As far as Coria fighting the CE, the Empire plans actually say nothing explicitly of the sort. You're missing the entire setup of this thing.

Think of it this way: Right now, there's a complex web of alliances and friendships that must be dealt with to do anything on Atamara. Nobody can declare war on anyone else without having a whole mess of allies also join in. The Empire's rules provide a method for this in that realms can perform smaller one-on-one wars to resolve problems internally. Coria fighting CE or Tara for land in this is just an example. Currently, Coria trying to seize a single region from CE could only happen through long bouts of diplomacy. Once that fails, there is no other solution. With the Empire, it adds an option for a controlled war to resolve the claim, theoretically without either realm bringing in a bunch of allies and fighting to the destruction of one of the two realms.

Of course, it still favors the stronger army, but at least you don't have to make sure your plans don't tread on the big alliance's buddy. All of these small wars have to be approved as well, so you can't really claim that any realm or group of realms still controls an alliance deadlock on the realm. (That is, just because Tara is on the Imperial Senate [aka oversight committee], they can't really escalate the smaller war or stop it entirely.)

Really, it's not a successor to the Northern Alliance at all. You have to drop the paradigm that this is a strategic formation of realms and comprehend the possibility that it is a diplomatic framework. It would be a quite different form if it wanted to destroy the CE as a realm... It just wants to eliminate the fear of being wiped off the map for attempting a small gain contrary to the apparent plans larger groups have for Atamara.

[Dante Silverfire]

Wait...

Is Cora saying they are actually going to fight CE?

If so, that's literally the dumbest thing I've heard in BM in a while. "Oh yeah, our major friendly allies north of us, who really liked us and tried hard to help us, are ruined– NOW let's join the fight!"

I assumed this was going to be a successor-entity to the Northern Alliance: not a means of continuing this same war.

Um, I'm not stupid guys. Please give me some credit. I don't RP all of my characters as incompetent like my one on Dwilight.

Coria has stated publicly, or rather Merlin has stated publicly that Coria will NEVER fight a war of aggression against CE so long as he is Ruler of Coria.

If I wanted to join the northern alliance (which would also get me skewered by my realm) I'd have done it a long time ago. Joining the war before Eston was defeated would have likely tipped the scales of the war. However, we had Hammarsett breathing down our necks, and were kind of getting raped pretty badly all around. We were in no position to do anything to change our diplomacy.

[Geronus]

So, yes, the CE has already been granted permission to join if they so choose. As such, denying them permission is now moot. What they choose to actually do is where things get interesting.

As far as Coria fighting the CE, the Empire plans actually say nothing explicitly of the sort. You're missing the entire setup of this thing.

Think of it this way: Right now, there's a complex web of alliances and friendships that must be dealt with to do anything on Atamara. Nobody can declare war on anyone else without having a whole mess of allies also join in. The Empire's rules provide a method for this in that realms can perform smaller one-on-one wars to resolve problems internally. Coria fighting CE or Tara for land in this is just an example. Currently, Coria trying to seize a single region from CE could only happen through long bouts of diplomacy. Once that fails, there is no other solution. With the Empire, it adds an option for a controlled war to resolve the claim, theoretically without either realm bringing in a bunch of allies and fighting to the destruction of one of the two realms.

Of course, it still favors the stronger army, but at least you don't have to make sure your plans don't tread on the big alliance's buddy. All of these small wars have to be approved as well, so you can't really claim that any realm or group of realms still controls an alliance deadlock on the realm. (That is, just because Tara is on the Imperial Senate [aka oversight committee], they can't really escalate the smaller war or stop it entirely.)

Really, it's not a successor to the Northern Alliance at all. You have to drop the paradigm that this is a strategic formation of realms and comprehend the possibility that it is a diplomatic framework. It would be a quite different form if it wanted to destroy the CE as a realm... It just wants to eliminate the fear of being wiped off the map for attempting a small gain contrary to the apparent plans larger groups have for Atamara.

Hmmm. So what you're saying is that you're really trying to blow up the current alliance system and replace it with some sort of institution that regulates warfare on the island and permits realms to have one on one fights? That's... Interesting. Very novel, but I wonder how clear that is to everyone IG. At the moment I'm viewing it from the perspective that getting all or even most of the realms on the island to join the Empire will be difficult, at best. And if you only have a minority of the realms, then what happens? What if an Empire realm is attacked by a non-member(s)?

Basically I think I see what you're trying to do here. It's cool, but I am skeptical that it will work. And if it does work, I have doubts as to how long it will be sustainable.

[Dante Silverfire]

Hmmm. So what you're saying is that you're really trying to blow up the current alliance system and replace it with some sort of institution that regulates warfare on the island and permits realms to have one on one fights? That's... Interesting. Very novel, but I wonder how clear that is to everyone IG. At the moment I'm viewing it from the perspective that getting all or even most of the realms on the island to join the Empire will be difficult, at best. And if you only have a minority of the realms, then what happens? What if an Empire realm is attacked by a non-member(s)?

Basically I think I see what you're trying to do here. It's cool, but I am skeptical that it will work. And if it does work, I have doubts as to how long it will be sustainable.

That is a good description of what I'm trying to do. I have planned and created a system by which warfare can be regulated. Not controlled completely, realms are still allowed to fight whomever they wish with or without reasons for war. However, it creates a standard whereby realms are held accountable for what they choose to go to war for and what they demand.

Wars no longer need to be all or nothing, kill the enemy, or be killed. That isn't fun for anyone. If you're winning you destroy all opposition, if you're losing you are stuck fighting a war you don't want to fight anymore because otherwise you lose everything.

That is the cause of what *would* soon be stagnation on Atamara. However, this won't be easy to pull off. I need at least a decent number of realms as you point out, AND I have to keep Coria alive from internal and external threats until that happens. That's kind of why I called for nobles to join me. I will need a larger noble count to pull this off.

[Zadar]

Everyone knows that Coria cannot be trusted so it was basically smart move to create new falasan Empire. Now we all know who will be part of it.      :)

This new Falasan Empire thing was the only way to get Darka on their side as King Kostaja was truly pissed on Coria not so long ago.. and I don't blame him.

[jaune]

Yeah, believe me that Merlin and KK aint best buddies around, even if Darka joins.

Darka just dont have a much of choise... CE & Boys have put us on corner... Darka is still ofcourse to prepared for fight to death. But this all surely gives some sort of hope us... along with not so good success of first Empires attack attempt.

I think CE made a mistake, by totally humiliating Eston with Hawthorne treaty. It showed to Darka and BoM, there is no other choice than fight till the end. It also prolly made some of their not so tight allies wonder what the heck... Before seeing terms of Eston, Darka could have agreed to surrender as well, with reasonable terms, but like cutting off every duchy, deporting council members... and rumours of ripping off all the gold Darka has... we rather spend that gold to fight for the right to be Darkan.

But yet again, we live intresting times. Darka has grown 2 regions after CE said it will reduce Darkas size ;) Waiting next wave to come... looks like portion of CE army has refitted and is sitting on the mountain....

but now gtg to send message to Merlin... my new pen buddy!

[Zadar]

Well we had a leak and it was closer than expected....  Someones just can't be trusted.    ;)

[Dante Silverfire]

Well we had a leak and it was closer than expected....  Someones just can't be trusted.    ;)

I'm no leak, but neither am I puppet.

CE has managed to play Rome enormously well. They have convinced many players to truly become puppets of Rome and they are very good at it.

[Radigand]

Everyone knows that Coria cannot be trusted so it was basically smart move to create new falasan Empire. Now we all know who will be part of it.      :)

This new Falasan Empire thing was the only way to get Darka on their side as King Kostaja was truly pissed on Coria not so long ago.. and I don't blame him.

Unfortunately they got the banner wrong. BRING OUT THE WHITE RABBIT!!! Coria's next step should be resurrection of Ashlantea

[Zadar]

Unfortunately they got the banner wrong. BRING OUT THE WHITE RABBIT!!! Coria's next step should be resurrection of Ashlantea

+1

[Bael]

Proper manipulation requires plausible denial ability.

No one can pin me as opposing CE.

What, no smiley face after that statement, indicating ironic intent? I am truly disappointed. Way to go, typing with your eyes closed :P

There have been numerous passages written that pretty much scream "this is against the Cagilan Empire".

[Sonya]

I'm no leak, but neither am I puppet.

CE has managed to play Rome enormously well. They have convinced many players to truly become puppets of Rome and they are very good at it.

CE played very well, that why i admire the Empire. As i stated before on another thread (CLICK FOR REFERENCE)

The main problem on Atamara are the nobles who betray themselves, they form a new realm, then they serve the enemy they were fighting. I know is likely a board game where a new game erase all and everything start over.

But we are dealing with Noble's Ideals here, even if you change the name, the flag, the social state, the ruler and the type of government, etc. The nobles and people should maintain the same ideal, but that is something that does not happen on BM.

But instead:

Realm A fight realm B, Realm B dissolve and become Realm C, now the people of Realm B join realm C and serve Realm A.

Talking about Rome, the Empires in the past had a problem, they expanded and expanded, but was the same Empire, not puppet states,  the same happened to every conqueror in history. But even if they conquered whole Europe, the people had their own ideals and always rise up against these Empires, right now there are 47 independant European Countries.

But on Atamara there are only 2 Sovereign states and these are Darka and BoM, any of you can mention me the name of another realm and i can give you 7256923562809295739485 reason why is NOT! being the size the first factor. how many of the original realms with original ideals remains?

Atamara need 3 or 4 more leaders like Merlin, sadly i think is already late.

[Dante Silverfire]

CE played very well, that why i admire the Empire. As i stated before on another thread (CLICK FOR REFERENCE)

The main problem on Atamara are the nobles who betray themselves, they form a new realm, then they serve the enemy they were fighting. I know is likely a board game where a new game erase all and everything start over.

But we are dealing with Noble's Ideals here, even if you change the name, the flag, the social state, the ruler and the type of government, etc. The nobles and people should maintain the same ideal, but that is something that does not happen on BM.

But instead:

Realm A fight realm B, Realm B dissolve and become Realm C, now the people of Realm B join realm C and serve Realm A.

Talking about Rome, the Empires in the past had a problem, they expanded and expanded, but was the same Empire, not puppet states,  the same happened to every conqueror in history. But even if they conquered whole Europe, the people had their own ideals and always rise up against these Empires, right now there are 47 independant European Countries.

But on Atamara there are only 2 Sovereign states and these are Darka and BoM, any of you can mention me the name of another realm and i can give you 7256923562809295739485 reason why is NOT! being the size the first factor. how many of the original realms with original ideals remains?

Atamara need 3 or 4 more leaders like Merlin, sadly i think is already late.

You play one of the leaders of Atamara. DO IT!

Cmon.

Sovereign states: CE, Darka, BoM, Coria.

Reasons: CE is the puppetmaster. All the other puppets including Tara serve at CE's whim.
Darka are mercenaries and likely will go down fighting.
BoM is BoM. Sordnaz bows to no one.
Coria will assert its sovereignty or I swear it will go up in flames in the process.