Really Eponlynn?

[GundamMerc]

Actually Oligarch was not at war with Nivemus, but it seems they will soon join the fray as well. A first Caligus unit has been spotted also, so I would assume that they will try a siege with Sirion, Caligus, Nivemus, Eponllyn and Shadowdale vs Oligarch City. That'll be one epic scene most likely. Based on army composition I already have a pretty good idea of how it'll prob look like, but don't want to give away too much advise to the enemies of course.

they already declared war.

[Feylonis]

The North has to be clear and secure from all enemies before they head south to deal with Perdan. This has and continues to be the prevailing strategy.

[Gabanus family]

The North has to be clear and secure from all enemies before they head south to deal with Perdan. This has and continues to be the prevailing strategy.

Except for the fact that Oligarch never intended to fight Sirion or anyone in the north (at least not at first) but was forced into war by Sirion. In fact it was Oligarch's goal (as stated also to Sirion) to wage war on Caligus in stead (whom was neutral at the time with Sirion as nobody in that council except Etchelion liked them in the first place). Sirion refused this and has continued war ever since. Even in the early days of Perdan/Vix' war on Eponllyn, Oligarch offered Sirion to march with them on Perdan and end hostilities in the north.

So while it may be the prevailing strategy now, it makes little sense when you say "has" really. Oligarch wasn't created in retalliation of Sirion or anything :)

[Feylonis]

Except...Oligarch was formed from an unsanctioned secession from Sirion. That's pretty much as aggressive as they can get.

[GundamMerc]

Except...Oligarch was formed from an unsanctioned secession from Sirion. That's pretty much as aggressive as they can get.

Not really. It's still up to the realm of origin to decide whether it's worth a war or not.

[Gabanus family]

Except...Oligarch was formed from an unsanctioned secession from Sirion. That's pretty much as aggressive as they can get.

It depends very much how you view it. In the original plan 2 more dukes were supposed to join as several in the council thought it was a good idea, of course that backfired :p

But even then Oligarch offered an alliance to Sirion, which puts the seccession in a bit of a different daylight I'd say. But to every their own of course

[JDodger]

the more i read this thread, the less i like oligarch.

[GundamMerc]

the more i read this thread, the less i like oligarch.

Funny how I get the opposite feeling...

[Gabanus family]

the more i read this thread, the less i like oligarch.

Interesting, and why is that?

[JDodger]

i had this image of oli as a rebel state made of people who either didnt like sirion or realized how bad sirion's apparent invincible dominion was for ec, who took a massive risk to break away and cut their own path.

now you're telling me it was an attempt at a friendly secession with intents to ally with the motherland, but somehow that got botched.

so basically you all managed to roll three hallmarks of "bad bm" into one big botch, those being supporting the status quo or a practically indistinguishable version of it, hegemonism, and screwups from bad communication.

glad you did so with such a rich city as your capital. i still support oli in the situation as it stands, just your origin story sucks compared to what was in my head.

[GundamMerc]

i had this image of oli as a rebel state made of people who either didnt like sirion or realized how bad sirion's apparent invincible dominion was for ec, who took a massive risk to break away and cut their own path.

now you're telling me it was an attempt at a friendly secession with intents to ally with the motherland, but somehow that got botched.

so basically you all managed to roll three hallmarks of "bad bm" into one big botch, those being supporting the status quo or a practically indistinguishable version of it, hegemonism, and screwups from bad communication.

glad you did so with such a rich city as your capital. i still support oli in the situation as it stands, just your origin story sucks compared to what was in my head.

The issue with this is that Perdan is much more a hegemonic imperialist than Sirion. While Oligarch could stand on its own against Sirion if Perdan were weak, once Perdan grows strong like it has it becomes a threat to both of them. Sirion has largely been content with what they have, even if it is a large area. Perdan is the one constantly attacking and destroying the rising powers around it.

[Ketchum]

Instead of ignoring what I said and blindly aggrandizing Perdan lets look closer at that definition.
With Al Arab and Ibladesh, by your definition, Perleone isn't a small realm. I'd disagree of course, it has two cities, but with a total of four regions, it's tiny. Of course Perleone is a small realm when you think of it logically, every bit as much as Fallangard, Alara, Eponllyn, First Oligarch, Obsidian Islands, Shadowdale, and Minas Nova.

About Perleone. If we compare Ibladesh city with Oligarch city, of course Oligarch city is the richest. Probably that is main reason why Oligarch hold out longest against Sirion.

Everyone in the north left Eponllyn hanging.

Agree, it is everyone to be blame. Especially if you considered that 2 realms were beating Eponllyn 8)
If it is 1 realm versus 1 realm war, Eponllyn could at least fight evenly.

I concur with Gabanus, First Oligarch was at war with Nivemus, Sirion and Shadowdale at first. Looking at the odds, Eponllyn decided to join the war to get more lands.

Eponllyn only has one city and 2 other regions, such a far cry from what it was back then. It is really just a simple matter of survival and opportunity, even more so due to Perdan's aggressiveness and (hatred*?) towards Eponllyn.   

Hic Sunt Leones,

I think it is natural process that "if you can't beat them, you beat other". We all hear the saying "if you can't beat them, join them". I wish to modify that saying for Battlemaster. "If you can't beat them, you beat other".
In this case, Eponllyn could not beat Perdan, nevermind Vix on its own. So I agree with you and Gabanus here, lands is the reason for war. But there are more reasons behind it, if you are from Eponllyn, Sirion or Nivemus realms, you would understand why. As part of your curiosity, I leave it to you to find out ::)

The North has to be clear and secure from all enemies before they head south to deal with Perdan. This has and continues to be the prevailing strategy.

Agree, it makes sense logically :)

[JeVondair]

Eponlyynn's Queen flat out lied, indicating that it was not at all about lands. Speaking OOC, Selenia and ever other ruler of the East saw right through it. That'll hurt her down the line.

[Gabanus family]

i had this image of oli as a rebel state made of people who either didnt like sirion or realized how bad sirion's apparent invincible dominion was for ec, who took a massive risk to break away and cut their own path.

now you're telling me it was an attempt at a friendly secession with intents to ally with the motherland, but somehow that got botched.

so basically you all managed to roll three hallmarks of "bad bm" into one big botch, those being supporting the status quo or a practically indistinguishable version of it, hegemonism, and screwups from bad communication.

glad you did so with such a rich city as your capital. i still support oli in the situation as it stands, just your origin story sucks compared to what was in my head.

You would be part right still though, as it compliments the overall.

The main reason I secceeded Oligarch (well knowing there was a decent chance we'd sign our own execution) was because Sirion wasn't doing anything. That was the logic both IC and OOC. The Senate was too slow to make the decisions which would benefit the north as a whole and we were allowing the great imperialistic nations of the center (caligus, although now you can easily add Perdan to it again also) to regain strength and dominance again and once they'd have it they would come for the north again. Once they would, the north would have lost nobles due to inaction, where the center/south would only `have become stronger, which would mean the end of the north. So they way Sirion was acting was destroying themselves and something had to be done. That is what Garas had been telling the Senate for months and where several agreed, things were stalled quite nicely according to Sirion tradition, also because Ecthelion didn't seem to agree.

The first focus was therefore to fight Caligus and to bring some action back to the north. The thing is, I don't much believe in the 'eternal' alliance concept of best buddies for life. I love more the idea of temporary alliances for different wars only to fight each other at a later moment and Oligarch would have followed that logic afterwards, but alas that chance was never given :p

We wanted to bring some fun back into the north and I think we succeeded to a certain extend and it creates a nice 'rebellion'' story I suppose.

[jaune]

If i understood right, Eponllyn simply messed up diplomacy totally on that Perdan war.

It all started by asking permission to go through. It was agreed no looting, no TOing, but Eponllyn did loot first which made Perdan to drop off its gloves.

When it started to look bad for Eponllyn, they surrendered, but refused to terms. They granted passage right to Perdan, but not Vix, which made the war continue. Then they declared hatred... And now they blame Perdan?

I was in Perdan and i disagreed continue of the war loudly, which eventually lead to that i left from Perdan few days ago.

I agree that Perdan is highly militaristic and aggressive, but i dont see that as a game problem. Sucks to be neighbour of this kind of war machine, but as history has shown, they can be brought down and one day they will be again beaten.

I didnt enjoy that much playing at Perdan, but i do understand those who do, it is always great to play with active and skillfull people.