Really Eponlynn?

[Constantine]

exposed their hypocrisy on limited conflicts and smaller realms.

Dude, do you really hate Perdan so much you are willing to make clearly untrue statements OOC?
The war was both limited in scope beforehand and smaller realms paradigm was not in any way jeopardized.

Neither do I buy the notion that Eponllyn's foreign policy is so facepalm-worthy because they were so bitterly crushed in a previous war. It was just as unfortunate way before that, which led to their recent downfall in the first place.

[Chamberlain]

The names of realms differ but the footprint is often the same, I can sympathise with Vita in that it's tough watching a principled realm turn to 'blah' I guess. Especially if you feel this was avoidable, which politically speaking at the time it seems it wasn't.

We should all take notes from Perdan... how many times that Phoenix has risen is amazing. 

[Vita`]

Dude, do you really hate Perdan so much you are willing to make clearly untrue statements OOC?
The war was both limited in scope beforehand and smaller realms paradigm was not in any way jeopardized.

You do not know what you are talking about. The war was not limited in any scope other than words. Perdan said they wouldn't loot, or TO regions. Then they did all those things. They even told us 'we will give you back your regions after the war', then they decided to keep them anyway. So much for !@#$ing passage rights and limited wars.

No, I am not lying as you accuse. I do not hate Perdan. I helped prevent Perdan's death. We could have destroyed Perdan, never could have returned like they did, and destroyed all that years of sirion-perdanite historical rivalry. No, we tried to cooperate and do something unique and different. And then Perdan went back to the same old imperialist 'destroy anything that is not our puppet' self it has long been.

I had once wanted to play in Perdan one day. I hate the assholish behavior Perdan has exhibited to everyone since several older players have returned. I hate seeing players pushed out of the game because Perdan winning is the most important thing to these players. Perdan and Vix made a huge deal about being pro-small realms and limited conflicts, as Eponllyn had been advocating. Perdan/Vix pushed Eponllyn away to circlejerk about how awesome they were in pro-small realms and limited conflicts. And then they !@#$ing trash Eponllyn because Perdan can never let Eponllyn have a homeland, it always has to keep coming after Eponllyn to destroy it, time after time...Eponllyn's entire realm history is basically a list of wars by Perdan or Perdan's puppets attempting to take more land from or completely destroy Eponllyn. Eponllyn's response when Perdan's life is in their hands? To give them redemption...and Perdan !@#$s them for it. I wish I could continue, but I already feel myself getting too stressed about this to do so.

There is nothing to be respected by Perdan's rise. Its another disappointing episode in the tale of BattleMaster players deciding that Winning is more important than Playing with others, same as ruined Atamara. But no one will learn until they've driven more players away with their toxicity.

[Constantine]

I helped prevent Perdan's death. We could have destroyed Perdan, never could have returned like they did, and destroyed all that years of sirion-perdanite historical rivalry.

Well, guess what. This time you lost and Perdan returned the favour. We did not destroy you even despite the hatred crap and constant middle fingers flying our way. You have as much a chance to come back as Perdan did way back.
You really need to learn to lose with grace. You conquered Perdan's capital some time ago. Later it took it back from you. Move on.

I think you really are projecting here. You speak of Perdan being bent on winning, while in fact you are the one being completely over the top because you lost. For shame.

[Vita`]

Players go on and on about limited wars, avoiding gangbangs, smaller realms for closer conflicts. But then they sabotage those very people who agree with them and in the process, proportionally weaken themselves and proportionally strengthen those who don't care. After being on the receiving end of the beat-down while saying 'hey, we were saying this before you guys did!', one realizes its just rhetoric to others.

If Perdan wanted more realms standing up against gangbangs and for smaller realms, ie Eponllyn not warring Oligarch, they should not have destroyed the one realm that had been advocating that on EC for longer than Perdan had. If Oligarch had wanted more realms standing up against gangbangs and for smaller realms, ie Eponllyn not warring Oligarch, Oligarch should not have greedily demanded more from Sirion and let Eponllyn/Nivemus to deal with Perdan alone. If Xavax/Fallangard had wanted more realms to stand in its defense, it should not have ignored a pre-emptive defense with Fallangard joining against Vix when Eponllyn/Nivemus will still willing to resist. Actions have consequences and you reap what you sow. If you take a medium-sized realm that is independent of the Polarized Island Politics and force it into a tiny city-state, it will either die in a blaze of glory and be forgotten about or it will hang around doing its best to become self-sufficient and join in the wars it can join in without being destroyed.

[Vita`]

Well, guess what. This time you lost and Perdan returned the favour. We did not destroy you even despite the hatred crap and constant middle fingers flying our way. You have as much a chance to come back as Perdan did way back.

Perdan did this before when they stole Ibladesh/Al Arab and left us with Semall. Weeks later convincing the ally that left us out to dry against Caligus to conquer Semall and destroy us. Only with Fallangard was Eponllyn able to survive (and got Itorunt in the process). Perdan/Perleone response? Quarantine Eponllyn away from all other realms and threaten to annihilate Eponllyn if they ever touched foot into Perleone (which was the only border we ever had). Driving players away in boredom. This after we had tried to include Perleone as a friendly neighbour, which they said they wanted nothing to do with, until Armonia cried to them for help in their dying throes.

When the ice came, Perdan wanted Eponllyn to give up on their realm entirely, fight for Perdan to conquer Oligarch, and maybe out of the kindness of their heart they would give us a new realm. You know, months later after we had lost more players along the way and become assimilated into Perdan. Sirion *gives* us Oligarch and Perdan tried to annihilate/genocide us again. We actually win against Perdan for once, allow them to live, are cooperating, preparing to help them out against the rebellious Vixens in their civil war (in a defensive posture only). And then suddenly Perdan starts a gamey OOC war with Vix and tell Eponllyn they want nothing to do with us anymore. By the time we have readjusted ourselves and are fighting a new war, attracting new nobles to the realm, Perdan and Vix want into the war (after they had just demanded no one intervene in *their* war). So Nivemus joins in. And then Vix wails for peace. And the war we just got involved in ends. So we go looking for a new war *again*. Perdan wants passage rights. Oh alright, we can have a limited war like you fought with Vix before, since we all agree limited wars and small realms are good! Hey, why are you looting us? Hey, why are you TOing our regions?

So yes, I'm !@#$ing annoyed at three years of getting beat down by Perdan over and over and over and over again, no matter how cooperative we have tried to be, and all their god damned 'limited war, small realms' circlejerk rhetorical bull!@#$. Eponllyn just wanted to fight some !@#$ing reasonable wars. But Perdan cannot let that be. They have to destroy us, taking cities. Try to annihilate us. Or jump into our wars and end them before we even get started after they've had their own wars. If there is one thing I can count on in EC, its for Perdan to !@#$ with Eponllyn.

You really need to learn to lose with grace. You conquered Perdan's capital some time ago. Later it took it back from you. Move on.

I think you really are projecting here. You speak of Perdan being bent on winning, while in fact you are the one being completely over the top because you lost. For shame.

This has nothing to do with a single !@#$ing loss. Thats the whole point. We have lost. Over and over. And kept playing through it. Perdan kept coming at us no matter where we were at. So yes, after three plus !@#$ing years of Perdan's bull!@#$, I am fed up. This has to do with the !@#$ing behavioral attitude of Perdan players. My characters have 'lost' plenty as I play them for their storyline more than winning. Which is why you will see them behave realistically and to their own detriment at times. Or I push them into unrealistic goals that often fall-short, just to do something different. I expected Eponllyn to be dead with the Glaciers/Freeze, so its a !@#$ing miracle it even survived to Oligarch, let alone capturing Perdan's capital after Perdan had stolen Eponllyn's original capital to found its Perleone puppet. Capturing the enemy's capital after he colonized your capital, in a war the enemy started to annihilate you...it was beautiful. But I never expected it to happen. But that is all a tangent from the issue of Perdan's behavioral tendency over many years.

EDIT: And what sparked my most recent frustration was the realization of Perdan executing advies just for being of an enemy realm when my adventurer I was barely logging in once or twice a week to hunt with was executed without a word. Which as I said before, alone is fine, I've done it myself here and there, advies are intentionally disposable, !@#$ happens. But then I noticed it was Perdan who executed them. And I realized, yet again, it was Perdan behind another 'incident'. And I ask myself...why is it always !@#$ing Perdan that these things happen from? Its not the isolated incident here or there. It seems to be a consistent militarist policy of 'destroy anything not of Perdan'. Its not about the specific advy loss, the specific lost battle, war, city, whatever. Its the whole trend that is noticeable from players within Perdan, from Atanamir and his ilk, to the new return of players since the war with Eponllyn, and how Perdan has behaved with those players compared to without.

[JeVondair]

Do we need to start a "Really Nivemus/Shadowdale" thread as well? or just edit this one to include?

[Constantine]

So yes, I'm !@#$ing annoyed at three years of getting beat down by Perdan over and over and over and over again, no matter how cooperative we have tried to be

Wow. I tried to argue rationally but it looks like it is really personal to you. What else can I say? Better luck next time and remember that it's only a game.

On a different note, wasn't Oligarch like Eponllyn's only friend? I heard they repeatedly sued for peace with Sirion just to go help Eponllyn fight Perdan. The irony!

[Sacha]

Wow. I tried to argue rationally but it looks like it is really personal to you. What else can I say? Better luck next time and remember that it's only a game.

He's right, you know.

[steelabjur@aol.com]

Seems that some people's idea of "smaller realms" is "small enough to not be a threat to our realm".

[Constantine]

You can't of course say he's wrong in his frustration, it's a subjective feeling after all.
But when it comes to hard facts, he's got nothing.
I struggle a bit wading through the wall of text but as far as I can see his main accusation is "Perdan destroys everything it doesn't like". In reality Perdan has not destroyed anyone and even took precautions to not let certain realms be destroyed. And the usual baloney about Vix and Perleone being Perdan's puppets. And recalling some personal grudges from three years ago. And vilifying perfectly normal actions practiced by every other realm.
That's just bitterness speaking, not common sense.

IT's entirely possible Eponllyn will be beaten by Perdan again in the future and while I see why you'd feel disappointed as an Eponllyn player I can't see why it's bad in terms of playing a game.

Seems that some people's idea of "smaller realms" is "small enough to not be a threat to our realm".

Small realm is a realm with no more than two cities. A one-city realm can be very threatening by the way, as Perdan has recently shown.

[steelabjur@aol.com]

Small realm is a realm with no more than two cities. A one-city realm can be very threatening by the way, as Perdan has recently shown.

Instead of ignoring what I said and blindly aggrandizing Perdan lets look closer at that definition.
With Al Arab and Ibladesh, by your definition, Perleone isn't a small realm. I'd disagree of course, it has two cities, but with a total of four regions, it's tiny. Of course Perleone is a small realm when you think of it logically, every bit as much as Fallangard, Alara, Eponllyn, First Oligarch, Obsidian Islands, Shadowdale, and Minas Nova. Yet, instead of going in on them to get them to spin Ibladesh into its own realm, Perdan joined with them in an alliance. Obviously a "Small Realm" is more than a sum of it's parts.

[Gabanus family]

Guys this is supposed to be an OOC forum, not a continuance of the IC propaganda.

Concerning who left Eponllyn out to dry, it's everyone really.
- Nivemus was way to late to assist them (while having nothing else to do) to a point where Eponllyn was already too weakened for their support to really make the difference.
- Sirion was offered a peace/alliance to fight Perdan by Oligarch long before Eponllyn was at risk of losing Perdan City. Sirion continuously ignored this proposal by Oligarch and screwed Eponllyn over in a big way, just to continue the war on Oligarch.
- Oligarch when the whole Perdan City thing did happen in the end, there was a moment where Sirion offered a temporary peace to Oligarch in order to help Eponllyn. For this Oligarch had to return 2 regions or so (by memmory). It was felt in Oligarch that if they'd accept now they'd be destroyed soon after and so we ultimately declined and left Eponllyn hanging.

So please Vita, don't bull!@#$ on this one by looking at one side. Everyone in the north left Eponllyn hanging.

The only reason Eponllyn is now warring Oligarch is because it's a simple way to gain lands and nothing more. They're jumping on the bandwagon and so will Nivemus and Garas will burn them all before he surrenders his city.

[Licinius]

I concur with Gabanus, First Oligarch was at war with Nivemus, Sirion and Shadowdale at first. Looking at the odds, Eponllyn decided to join the war to get more lands.

Eponllyn only has one city and 2 other regions, such a far cry from what it was back then. It is really just a simple matter of survival and opportunity, even more so due to Perdan's aggressiveness and (hatred*?) towards Eponllyn.   

Hic Sunt Leones,

[Gabanus family]

I concur with Gabanus, First Oligarch was at war with Nivemus, Sirion and Shadowdale at first. Looking at the odds, Eponllyn decided to join the war to get more lands.

Eponllyn only has one city and 2 other regions, such a far cry from what it was back then. It is really just a simple matter of survival and opportunity, even more so due to Perdan's aggressiveness and (hatred*?) towards Eponllyn.   

Hic Sunt Leones,

Actually Oligarch was not at war with Nivemus, but it seems they will soon join the fray as well. A first Caligus unit has been spotted also, so I would assume that they will try a siege with Sirion, Caligus, Nivemus, Eponllyn and Shadowdale vs Oligarch City. That'll be one epic scene most likely. Based on army composition I already have a pretty good idea of how it'll prob look like, but don't want to give away too much advise to the enemies of course.