Asylon Realm Thread

[Chenier]

VE lost it's stance as a true religion when Caerwyn used it as an excuse to rape and pillage Astrum.  Political members of VE were just looking to start a religious war, while the leaders sat back silently.  Instead of being a different beast from SA entirely, they just turned it into the other side of the same coin.

I have no idea where you got this. Verdis Elementum has always had the stance to ignore Sanguis Astroism. There never was any call for arms against SA in Verdis Elementum channels, nor any message about justifying any looting act.

If some low-ranking nobles invoked it to justify their actions, then in no way can you extend this to the religion as a whole. I'm not even sure if any of the VE elders were even members of Caerwyn in the later days...

[Glaumring the Fox]

Wasnt you a rabbit just now?   :o

Glaumring is both the rabbit and the fox...always alert... Ever scheming .

[Gustav Kuriga]

VE lost it's stance as a true religion when Caerwyn used it as an excuse to rape and pillage Astrum.  Political members of VE were just looking to start a religious war, while the leaders sat back silently.  Instead of being a different beast from SA entirely, they just turned it into the other side of the same coin.

Actually, nearly all the wars that have ended up favorably for SA were started by someone else. Libero and Raivan Empire ganging up on Xinhai. Averoth intervening in a crusade. Caerwyn breaking a federation to attack Astrum. We didn't start these, but we certainly finished them.

[vonGenf]

Glaumring is both the rabbit and the fox...always alert... Ever scheming .

Glaumring would be a duck, if Glaumring knew what a duck was.  ;)

[Indirik]

I have no idea where you got this. Verdis Elementum has always had the stance to ignore Sanguis Astroism. There never was any call for arms against SA in Verdis Elementum channels, nor any message about justifying any looting act.

If some low-ranking nobles invoked it to justify their actions, then in no way can you extend this to the religion as a whole. I'm not even sure if any of the VE elders were even members of Caerwyn in the later days...

There were some messages passed around in Caerwyn, that got passed along to Astrum, about Caerwyn claiming they were using "secular means to fight a religious war". I don't remember the exact content or context of them. Caerwyn's government was also heavily backing VE as a shield against the encroachment of SA, and officially endorsed it.

Whether or not the actions taken by Caerwyn were endorsed or initiated by VE, there is a strong impression that VE was involved. And since Caerwyn specifically was targeting SA, I think it's pretty natural for people to place blame on Caaerwyn's religion in turn.

Having said that, I don't think too many people in SA really care about VE, now that Caerwyn is dead. Vengeance has been delivered.

[Chenier]

Having said that, I don't think too many people in SA really care about VE, now that Caerwyn is dead. Vengeance has been delivered.

Good. I tried to make sure that nobody use VE tools (priests notably) against SA. I didn't want D'Hara to plunge along with Caerwyn.

[Beldragos]

I tried to make sure in my messages to never mix religion with politics and called for SA to stop that practice, an IC view we had of them. 

I am not sure what Amandil said in private messages but he was the one to order the rape and pillaging when most of us found ways to not follow (Oops, I am a Cavalier and do not have that option, sorry) those Orders while publicly calling him out against them.  I believe (I cannot remember since it has been so long) I sent him a private message about those Orders as Archon but it was not heeded.

[Shenron]

I tried to make sure in my messages to never mix religion with politics and called for SA to stop that practice, an IC view we had of them. 

I am not sure what Amandil said in private messages but he was the one to order the rape and pillaging when most of us found ways to not follow (Oops, I am a Cavalier and do not have that option, sorry) those Orders while publicly calling him out against them.  I believe (I cannot remember since it has been so long) I sent him a private message about those Orders as Archon but it was not heeded.

Since we're in medieval times, asking for a separation for religion and politics is like asking for a separation of politics and science nowadays. People would just be like, "the !@#$ is this guy on about?"

[Chenier]

Since we're in medieval times, asking for a separation for religion and politics is like asking for a separation of politics and science nowadays. People would just be like, "the !@#$ is this guy on about?"

It has to be seperate, to claim otherwise would be to claim the absurd that politicians have power over religion! Hahaha!

None of the Caerwyn leaders were VE leaders.

[Vellos]

Since we're in modern times, asking for a separation for religion and politics is like asking for a separation of politics and science nowadays. People would just be like, "Oh, it's America, that's perfectly normal."

What an astute observation!

[Graeth]

Sorry, let me rephrase that.  It wasn't internal pressure from VE that I felt caused the war, but rather Caerwyn elites using religion as a scare tactic to rile their realm up.  They tried to say that Asylon was going to turn into an all SA realm as well when we declared religious freedom among the nobility.

My character was more interested in keeping VE as a religion of meditation, as opposed to a religion where everyone is off to war to guard it form SA.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Sorry, let me rephrase that.  It wasn't internal pressure from VE that I felt caused the war, but rather Caerwyn elites using religion as a scare tactic to rile their realm up.  They tried to say that Asylon was going to turn into an all SA realm as well when we declared religious freedom among the nobility.

My character was more interested in keeping VE as a religion of meditation, as opposed to a religion where everyone is off to war to guard it form SA.

And by trying to go to war with us, they played right into our hands...

[Velax]

If some low-ranking nobles invoked it to justify their actions, then in no way can you extend this to the religion as a whole.

Because that would never happen in real life...

[Geronus]

I tried to make sure in my messages to never mix religion with politics and called for SA to stop that practice, an IC view we had of them. 

I am not sure what Amandil said in private messages but he was the one to order the rape and pillaging when most of us found ways to not follow (Oops, I am a Cavalier and do not have that option, sorry) those Orders while publicly calling him out against them.  I believe (I cannot remember since it has been so long) I sent him a private message about those Orders as Archon but it was not heeded.

Now this I find interesting. I remember when Caerwyn started in with that. I, being a shameless opportunist, took the opportunity to try to make Caerwyn look even worse than before. "Betraying us wasn't enough, now you butcher people who were your neighbors just a few days ago?" (rulers' channel, "send"). I think it's interesting that there was downward pressure to stop that practice. There was no evidence of that fact from our end, though Rowan got killed not too long after Caerwyn went to war, so if Baal ended up disavowing the practice I never knew it.

[Indirik]

I think it's interesting that there was downward pressure to stop that practice. There was no evidence of that fact from our end, though Rowan got killed not too long after Caerwyn went to war, so if Baal ended up disavowing the practice I never knew it.

Everyone Brance talked to blamed it on everyone else. Given the number of KRB incidents that occurred every time Caerwyn moved into an Astrum region, there certainly was no feel during the the actual war itself that anyone was making any attempts to stop and/or reduce it. And given the fact that, generally, no one knows what kind of looting anyone else does, anyone who didn't want to do it could easily have not done it and no one would ever know they didn't, I can give little credence to any claims of "We didn't want to do it".