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It occurred to me today that civilization on Dwilight is expanding quickly. (Except around the Via duchy. ;) ) There are now 170 owned regions, out of 248 total. That's 69% occupied. Not counting whatever territory the Zuma claims and occupies, as we have no way of seeing that directly without scout reports of the area. I wonder what some of these realms will do when they start running out of rogue forces to fight.

But then again, some of them having been sitting doing nothing for so long, maybe it's become an ingrained habit. :P

Especially with the new estate system in place, I think that it won't be long before there are only two substantially sized areas of wilderness left on Dwilight - the area around Darfix and the area between the Lurias and Morek/Corsanctum. Barca and Aurvandil look to be set to snap up everything south of the Zuma; Asylon and Astrum should split up the area Caerwyn once occupied, with Terran wrapping around to take the rest of the territory north of the Zuma; Iashalur should put a pretty good dent into the western wilderness; the northeast is already almost entirely settled; and the Lurias look to be slowly occupying the area around Shinnen. That basically just leaves the big wilderness area encompassing Unterstrom, Flowrestown, Sallowtown and Balance's Retreat, plus whatever wilderness persists around Darfix.

Very interesting...

/me laughs and wonders what will happen the two SA people see what the map looks like in January :D


Agreed though, to be honest, I sense realm wars on the horizon!

Quote from: Ramiel on November 23, 2011, 06:08:14 PM
/me laughs and wonders what will happen the two SA people see what the map looks like in January :D


Agreed though, to be honest, I sense realm wars on the horizon!

I look forward to it  :)

Let's hope for something interesting. Though I doubt anything *that* significant can happen before then.

For the Zuma, a good rule of thumb is that they claim all the badlands. Consider the rurals and forests open game. They claim about 8 regions as far as I know.

Quote from: Chénier on November 23, 2011, 08:56:06 PM
For the Zuma, a good rule of thumb is that they claim all the badlands. Consider the rurals and forests open game. They claim about 8 regions as far as I know.

Can no one go to the badlands a claim some of the land from the zuma? I mean kind of seems a little unfair the can just control those regions and no one can really do anything about it. I mean most of the land is useless and no one wants but still. Why does the zuma really need 8 regions at all?

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 09:18:42 PM



Can no one go to the badlands a claim some of the land from the zuma? I mean kind of seems a little unfair the can just control those regions and no one can really do anything about it. I mean most of the land is useless and no one wants but still. Why does the zuma really need 8 regions at all?

Nobody's stopping you from trying, one way or another.

Quote from: Chénier on November 23, 2011, 08:56:06 PM
For the Zuma, a good rule of thumb is that they claim all the badlands. Consider the rurals and forests open game. They claim about 8 regions as far as I know.

I believe they may also claim Hawoqy.

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 09:18:42 PM
Can no one go to the badlands a claim some of the land from the zuma? I mean kind of seems a little unfair the can just control those regions and no one can really do anything about it. I mean most of the land is useless and no one wants but still. Why does the zuma really need 8 regions at all?

They have big armies. Why does anybody control any regions? Because they have big enough armies.

Exactly what purpose the Zuma serve... has been a mystery for some time.

Quote from: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 09:22:10 PM
I believe they may also claim Hawoqy.

I think I told them they should take it once, but they weren't interested.

Quote from: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 09:22:10 PMExactly what purpose the Zuma serve... has been a mystery for some time.

To give D'Hara a reason to continue trading once Barca grows enough to feed us, of course!

Quote from: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 09:22:10 PM
I believe they may also claim Hawoqy.

They have big armies. Why does anybody control any regions? Because they have big enough armies.

Exactly what purpose the Zuma serve... has been a mystery for some time.

Yeah I understand that but the thing is you are speaking of the Zuma like they are humans but they are not. Land to them can be totally meaningless.  I think there is a lot of awesome RP that could be done but I think a lot of people are to afraid to endanger their character and realm to the Zumas wraith if all goes bad.

Quote from: Ramiel on November 23, 2011, 06:08:14 PM
Agreed though, to be honest, I sense realm wars on the horizon!

It's a funny thing; as rogue lands run out in the Maroccidens, realm v. realm conflict has been heating up. But I don't, currently, see it spilling over into any wars. All of the Moot realms have internal excitement (Terran is probably the calmest right now), and various foreign issues that could imagineably lead to war but, as discussed elsewhere, they probably won't. The costs of war with Astrum's colony, with the Lurias, or in the southern war are just so damn high compared to the benefits. War with Astrum would be pointless, as Terran has never had any interest in any lands except Demyansk, and it just isn't that valuable of a prize. War with Asylon is laughable– we are trying frantically to prop them up and help them, not fight them. War with the Lurias would be like the Madina/Aurvandil war, except even more boring, with an even longer maritime assault route. And the Lurias have nothing we want. Involvement in the south is a possibility, but the only real motive would be if one of them posed a genuine threat to Barca or D'Hara's safety. Neither do. Food and trade concerns are huge, but don't seem likely right now to find resolution in war: rather, they will slowly be resolved by rising Barcan productivity.

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 09:25:28 PM
I think a lot of people are to afraid to endanger their character and realm to the Zumas wraith if all goes bad.

This is true.

Once Barca and Asylon are stable, a war against the Zuma by Asylon, Terran, Barca, and D'hara would be tons of fun. But, frankly, given that we have no knowledge of how the Zuma recruit, what their long-term military capacities may be, etc.... no way. If their power were vast, but known, some strategy might be found to fight them. But as they are so unknown, it can't be risked. Even investigating their military power seems unwise, as they might interpret such snooping negatively.

I'd be interested in finding out.

I want to bet that the Zuma currently already have more military forces then those Realms combined right now and that's without them needing to recruit :P Frankly, War against the Zuma is suicide for the Marrocidens, and probably will be swift without much of a resistance. At least we'll have lands to colonize afterwards ;)

Well I would love to stick it to the Zuma and take a few realms with me with the !@#$ hits the fan lol.

Quote from: Telrunya on November 23, 2011, 09:35:45 PM
I want to bet that the Zuma currently already have more military forces then those Realms combined right now and that's without them needing to recruit :P Frankly, War against the Zuma is suicide for the Marrocidens, and probably will be swift without much of a resistance. At least we'll have lands to colonize afterwards ;)

This is because we know nothing of them. Maybe they have some constraint on recruitment about which we are ignorant.

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 09:40:02 PM
Well I would love to stick it to the Zuma and take a few realms with me with the !@#$ hits the fan lol.

I would love to stick it to the Zuma. But I'd prefer to not destroy Terran and the Moot in the process, as it's kind of been the biggest, most successful IG project of any of my characters ever.

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 09:25:28 PMYeah I understand that but the thing is you are speaking of the Zuma like they are humans but they are not.

The way I understand it, the "Zuma" are a realm of humans ruled/protected by daimons.

QuoteLand to them can be totally meaningless.

And you would know that because...?

Unless you have talked to them, interacted with them, and have learned their secrets, any such assumptions you make are nothing more than your personal opinion. And probably wrong.

QuoteI think there is a lot of awesome RP that could be done but I think a lot of people are to afraid to endanger their character and realm to the Zumas wraith if all goes bad.

You should be afraid. If their daimon troops are anything like those on BT, then they are insanely powerful. But if you think the potential for RP and !!Fun!! is attractive enough, then go for it. Maybe you'll get them on your side. Or your enemy's side. Whichever. I'm sure we'll all enjoy it.

Quote from: Indirik on November 23, 2011, 09:45:58 PM
The way I understand it, the "Zuma" are a realm of humans ruled/protected by daimons.
And you would know that because...?

Unless you have talked to them, interacted with them, and have learned their secrets, any such assumptions you make are nothing more than your personal opinion. And probably wrong.
You should be afraid. If their daimon troops are anything like those on BT, then they are insanely powerful. But if you think the potential for RP and !!Fun!! is attractive enough, then go for it. Maybe you'll get them on your side. Or your enemy's side. Whichever. I'm sure we'll all enjoy it.

What I meant was could sorry came out can. It should have been land to them could be meaningless no one knows. You never know what my character will do but I will say if i do fall i will try my hardest to take the moot with me for kicks.

QuoteThis is because we know nothing of them. Maybe they have some constraint on recruitment about which we are ignorant.

I doubt the Daimons need to do much recruiting really. The Marrocidens don't even have much experience with War and won't have much discipline. Their current forces can stomp us already. The Marrocidens won't be able to raise any kind of resistance. To attack the Zuma, need to start thinking way larger scale to even think about the option and get the surprise attack, and the Marrocidens will take the brunt of the attack in either situation. And then still it's probably still a foolish idea :P It could be fun if the Realms could make them sweat a bit at least though.

Quote from: Indirik on November 23, 2011, 09:45:58 PM
The way I understand it, the "Zuma" are a realm of humans ruled/protected by daimons.
And you would know that because...?

Unless you have talked to them, interacted with them, and have learned their secrets, any such assumptions you make are nothing more than your personal opinion. And probably wrong.
You should be afraid. If their daimon troops are anything like those on BT, then they are insanely powerful. But if you think the potential for RP and !!Fun!! is attractive enough, then go for it. Maybe you'll get them on your side. Or your enemy's side. Whichever. I'm sure we'll all enjoy it.

Back in the days when I was helping to set up the plans for Asylon we had some interaction with the Zuma. Course things might have changed but back then the actual Diamons where indeed a minority that ruled over the local human tribes. They seemed very protective of these tribes, to the point where we had to earn their trust in order to gain permission to found the realm in Echiur, which apparently had one of their tribes even thought the land wasn't officially claimed by them.

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 09:52:31 PM
You never know what my character will do but I will say if i do fall i will try my hardest to take the moot with me for kicks.

And you will get banned from your realm.

Quote from: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 11:22:02 PM
And you will get banned from your realm.

Why would I get banned I dont think my realm really cares to much about the moot all the way across the realm?

Quote from: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 11:22:02 PM
And you will get banned from your realm.

Why would I get banned I dont think my realm really cares to much about the moot all the way across the Sea?

Quote from: Vellos on November 23, 2011, 09:30:23 PM
This is true.

Once Barca and Asylon are stable, a war against the Zuma by Asylon, Terran, Barca, and D'hara would be tons of fun. But, frankly, given that we have no knowledge of how the Zuma recruit, what their long-term military capacities may be, etc.... no way. If their power were vast, but known, some strategy might be found to fight them. But as they are so unknown, it can't be risked. Even investigating their military power seems unwise, as they might interpret such snooping negatively.

D'Hara is the farest of the three, and I doubt anyone here would want such a war.

Not to mention that they basically represent our only possible motivation to keep on trading once Barca produces enough.

Quote from: Creed on November 23, 2011, 11:33:07 PM
Why would I get banned I dont think my realm really cares to much about the moot all the way across the Sea?

I don't know what realm you are from, but if from the 'moot, you'll certainly get banned. If from another realm, odds are if the Zuma turn aggressive, the moot will rather side with them than with your realm.

Does the SA church have any proscriptions against consorting with the daimons? Or, oh, well, let's say, selling food to them, for example?

Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on November 24, 2011, 01:48:43 AM
Does the SA church have any proscriptions against consorting with the daimons? Or, oh, well, let's say, selling food to them, for example?

Wouldn't bother me. I'm fairly certain that if SA decided to raise any fuss with us over it, we'd have Zuma backing. I'd rather be on the Zuma's side than on SA's, and by a long shot.

Quote from: Chénier on November 24, 2011, 02:50:08 AM
I'd rather be on the Zuma's side than on SA's, and by a long shot.

Bwahahahahaha. Picture someone saying this back in the Middle Ages: "Well, I'd rather be on the Devil's side than on God's."

Quote from: Chénier on November 24, 2011, 12:56:15 AMI don't know what realm you are from

Creed is from Morek.

He just got kicked out of Sanguis Astroism for things like apostasy, heresy, and all the other usual crimes. :D

Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on November 24, 2011, 01:48:43 AMDoes the SA church have any proscriptions against consorting with the daimons? Or, oh, well, let's say, selling food to them, for example?

Not so far as I know. SA is, for the most part, too far north to have any kind of dealings with the daimons, or any real policies about them. Asylon as a realm may have some rules/laws.

Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on November 24, 2011, 03:51:48 AM
Bwahahahahaha. Picture someone saying this back in the Middle Ages: "Well, I'd rather be on the Devil's side than on God's."

More like orthodox kingdoms preferring to side with muslim ones than catholic ones. While the North and the South-West are both human, both the North and the Zuma are alien in culture to the South-West, and one of them is close, mostly passive, and has great potential for trade while the other is far, has a history of knocking down smaller neighbors, and has very limited long-term trading potential.

If open war breaks between the Zuma and SA, I couldn't think of a single good reason to make us want to be on SA's side, as the Zuma has the potential of offering better on every level. Are they creepy and do they disturb our morals? A little. But then again, so do most realms outside of the 'moot.

I'm a little late to the thread, but from my one and only visit to the Zuma, I would not be surprised if they have a peacetime standing army of 80k CS. Meaning that every realm from Terran to Madina could take them on, and lose. We could probably defeat their first region, which only has 10k CS, but then their remaining regions would probably bunch up their forces and come and eat us alive.

Quote from: egamma on November 24, 2011, 04:25:45 AM
I'm a little late to the thread, but from my one and only visit to the Zuma, I would not be surprised if they have a peacetime standing army of 80k CS. Meaning that every realm from Terran to Madina could take them on, and lose. We could probably defeat their first region, which only has 10k CS, but then their remaining regions would probably bunch up their forces and come and eat us alive.

Assuming we could launch a surprise attack, and that they not be waiting for us or attacking us on our own lands.

Quote from: Chénier on November 24, 2011, 04:13:15 AMIf open war breaks between the Zuma and SA, I couldn't think of a single good reason to make us want to be on SA's side,

I am currently there for negotiations, and they scare the poo-poo out of me.

Quote from: Chénier on November 24, 2011, 02:50:08 AM
Wouldn't bother me. I'm fairly certain that if SA decided to raise any fuss with us over it, we'd have Zuma backing. I'd rather be on the Zuma's side than on SA's, and by a long shot.

Just seems to be you are picking the easiest side what is the fun in that. You will have the most fun picking the underdog side because if you win it would be that much more epic,

Quote from: Creed on November 24, 2011, 03:02:22 PM
Just seems to be you are picking the easiest side what is the fun in that. You will have the most fun picking the underdog side because if you win it would be that much more epic,

Right, right... But if you don't win you would be that much more dead.

Besides, we'd be picking the side that is at least predictable--there's no guarantee that if we side with SA, that they would continue to back us. I'm pretty confident that the Zuma don't have any interest in our lands.

Quote from: egamma on November 24, 2011, 03:42:41 PM
Besides, we'd be picking the side that is at least predictable--there's no guarantee that if we side with SA, that they would continue to back us. I'm pretty confident that the Zuma don't have any interest in our lands.

Wait, wait, you're saying the Zuma are more predictable than SA? Isn't the word 'predictable' a bit of a stretch when applied to a bunch of alien, inhuman creatures with inscrutable motives?

Quote from: Geronus on November 24, 2011, 03:52:08 PM
Wait, wait, you're saying the Zuma are more predictable than SA? Isn't the word 'predictable' a bit of a stretch when applied to a bunch of alien, inhuman creatures with inscrutable motives?

What he's saying is that if SA became more alien, inhuman and inscrutable, then he'd trust us more.

This is the kind of challenge I like.....

Quote from: Geronus on November 24, 2011, 03:52:08 PM
Wait, wait, you're saying the Zuma are more predictable than SA? Isn't the word 'predictable' a bit of a stretch when applied to a bunch of alien, inhuman creatures with inscrutable motives?

The Zuma are not inscrutable.

Don't mess with them, they don't mess with you, as long as they aren't starving.

Quote from: Creed on November 24, 2011, 03:02:22 PM
Just seems to be you are picking the easiest side what is the fun in that. You will have the most fun picking the underdog side because if you win it would be that much more epic,

Disregarding the fact that we are *not* militaristic, I'm sure getting yourself killed in a battle you have no chance of winning is lots of fun, right?

Quote from: Geronus on November 24, 2011, 03:52:08 PM
Wait, wait, you're saying the Zuma are more predictable than SA? Isn't the word 'predictable' a bit of a stretch when applied to a bunch of alien, inhuman creatures with inscrutable motives?

Quite the contrary. I think SA is *too* predictable. ;)

Quote from: Chénier on November 25, 2011, 12:12:17 AM
Quite the contrary. I think SA is *too* predictable. ;)

Lol, very very nice Chenier!

Quote from: vonGenf on November 24, 2011, 04:56:47 PM
What he's saying is that if SA became more alien, inhuman and inscrutable, then he'd trust us more.

This is the kind of challenge I like.....

I can work with this.

Asylon merely has trade and a minor religion based around the Zuma. There is no special relationship. They use us and us them. Zuma are kinda boring, wish there was actual sonething to say more about them. I wish they had a flag, I wish more humans could join them and become like a. Zuma slave army kingdom, i hope they also have limited recruitment and a beatable army.

Quote from: Glaumring on November 25, 2011, 09:42:49 PM
Asylon merely has trade and a minor religion based around the Zuma. There is no special relationship. They use us and us them. Zuma are kinda boring, wish there was actual sonething to say more about them. I wish they had a flag, I wish more humans could join them and become like a. Zuma slave army kingdom, i hope they also have limited recruitment and a beatable army.

They would only have a defeatable army if their goal was to be defeated.

Since I doubt their goal was to be defeated, I doubt they would be allowed to fail.

I mean rather that their armies are under the same restrictions as ours are or can the Gm just keep pouring in troops etc. If they eat and need food... We can kill them...

Quote from: Glaumring on November 26, 2011, 04:05:04 AM
I mean rather that their armies are under the same restrictions as ours are or can the Gm just keep pouring in troops etc. If they eat and need food... We can kill them...

Have you every played on BT?

Quote from: De-Legro on November 26, 2011, 04:27:54 AM
Have you every played on BT?

Poor BT, half of what it once was.. Are there more players on Dwilight versus Beluaterra by now?

Quote from: DoctorHarte on November 26, 2011, 04:29:55 AM
Poor BT, half of what it once was.. Are there more players on Dwilight versus Beluaterra by now?

I'd guess 50% more on Dwilight than BT, but that's a guess. The pi chart is in Statistics, but it doesn't provide figures. Still, the piece of pie for Dwi looks bigger than the piece of pie for BT, if that's any good to you. I played BT with my old family during the last invasion. Didn't see all that much individual nationalism there (maybe cause of the invasion) but it didn't strike me as nearly as much fun as the likes of Dwi. Meh.

Did I play BT... Aye, Mesh... in the final days of the Daimon attack.  Baron Balgathled fell to the onslaught of the beasts. I now have another character in Rio right now.

Quote from: Glaumring on November 26, 2011, 06:11:24 AM
Did I play BT... Aye, Mesh... in the final days of the Daimon attack.  Baron Balgathled fell to the onslaught of the beasts. I now have another character in Rio right now.

Then you should understand that

1) It is unlikely they are subject to exactly the same restrictions we are
2) They will have restrictions of their own
3) That in no way means they are beatable, but until someone tests this we simply will not know.

Quote from: De-Legro on November 26, 2011, 09:40:37 AM
Then you should understand that

1) It is unlikely they are subject to exactly the same restrictions we are
2) They will have restrictions of their own
3) That in no way means they are beatable, but until someone tests this we simply will not know.

I assume you're referring to the Daimons?

Quote from: DoctorHarte on November 28, 2011, 03:54:20 AM
I assume you're referring to the Daimons?

The Zuma, yes.

There's more than just the legend that is Creed that wants to slaughter "the Zuma, who are little more than violent wildlife pretending to be a civilisation"

The part in " is actually a direct quote from a letter my character got IC  8)

Quote from: Carna on November 29, 2011, 03:31:55 AM
There's more than just the legend that is Creed that wants to slaughter "the Zuma, who are little more than violent wildlife pretending to be a civilisation"

The part in " is actually a direct quote from a letter my character got IC  8)

Be our guest in sparking any Zuma-SA, Zuma-Luria, or SA-Luria conflict.

I figure its my job to get the Lurians in trouble with either the Zuma or SA. Which of the two doesn't altogether matter.  ;D

Quote from: Carna on November 29, 2011, 04:41:44 AM
I figure its my job to get the Lurians in trouble with either the Zuma or SA. Which of the two doesn't altogether matter.  ;D

Both are pretty far away from the Lurias, to be fairly honest. Lurias vs SA would be fun, but given the current relations I have a hard time believing it will actually happen. Both sides seem pretty cordial with each other.

Zuma is far more likely, if Koli can ever find a way to manage it.

Quote from: Bedwyr on November 29, 2011, 07:10:43 AM
Zuma is far more likely, if Koli can ever find a way to manage it.

We could go poke them with a stick.

Quote from: JPierreD on November 29, 2011, 06:11:39 AM
Both are pretty far away from the Lurias, to be fairly honest. Lurias vs SA would be fun, but given the current relations I have a hard time believing it will actually happen. Both sides seem pretty cordial with each other.

True, the relations are cordial, but geographically, we are definitely thinning the gap between our borders. After a a short time, we might be only a region away from Corsanctum ;)

Quote from: De-Legro on November 29, 2011, 07:25:27 AMWe could go poke them with a stick.

Taking a page out of Averoth/Thulsoma's book, eh? Those who do not learn from history...

Quote from: Indirik on November 29, 2011, 03:40:36 PM
Taking a page out of Averoth/Thulsoma's book, eh? Those who do not learn from history...

Credit where credit is due: Poking the Zuma with a stick right now would be much stupider than poking Sanguis Astroism was for them.

And much more entertaining to watch in equal proportion.

Quote from: Geronus on November 29, 2011, 10:33:46 PM
And much more entertaining to watch in equal proportion.

QFT

Maybe if I use a REALLY long stick, like about the size of D'Hara?

Quote from: De-Legro on November 30, 2011, 02:22:19 AM
Maybe if I use a REALLY long stick, like about the size of D'Hara?

Let's not start with the "big stick" jokes, now. :P

Quote from: Chénier on November 30, 2011, 02:28:15 AM
Let's not start with the "big stick" jokes, now. :P

I was more implying I should poke them with D'Hara, sort of a test run you see, so we know just what we are getting into.

Quote from: De-Legro on November 30, 2011, 02:31:16 AM
I was more implying I should poke them with D'Hara, sort of a test run you see, so we know just what we are getting into.

I know, but I was awfully tempted to retort with a "stick" joke.  ;)

Terran's stick is bigger than D'Hara's.

Quote from: Vellos on November 30, 2011, 06:32:05 PM
Terran's stick is bigger than D'Hara's.

No, no, no! That's the obvious, and it won't do!

What you want to say is:

Terran's stick is bigger than D'Hara.

Quote from: vonGenf on November 30, 2011, 06:36:19 PM
No, no, no! That's the obvious, and it won't do!

What you want to say is:

Terran's stick is bigger than D'Hara.

But then I can say that this is fine, because D'Hara's stick is bigger than Terran. ;)

Quote from: Chénier on November 30, 2011, 06:53:20 PM
But then I can say that this is fine, because D'Hara's stick is bigger than Terran. ;)

Geometrically, that's a impossible. Part A_s of object A cannot be bigger than object B if Part B_s of object B is itself bigger than the whole of object A.

If you pose

D_s<=D D'Hara has a stick
T_s<=T Terran has a stick

and

T_s>D Terran's stick is bigger than D'Hara.

Then your statement D_s>T  is false since it implies

D_s>T>=T_s>D therefore D_s>D and D>=D_s, which is a contradiction.

Quote from: vonGenf on November 30, 2011, 07:17:32 PM
Geometrically, that's a impossible. Part A_s of object A cannot be bigger than object B if Part B_s of object B is itself bigger than the whole of object A.

If you pose

D_s<=D D'Hara has a stick
T_s<=T Terran has a stick

and

T_s>D Terran's stick is bigger than D'Hara.

Then your statement D_s>T  is false since it implies

D_s>T>=T_s>D therefore D_s>D and D>=D_s, which is a contradiction.

I am excluding the stick's size when comparing, because obviously it can shrink and grow, and we are comparing the max size of the stick which is otherwise not apparent on the holder of the stick in normal times. This therefore allows for the stick's full size to be larger than the holder own size. ;)

Quote from: Chénier on November 30, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
I am excluding the stick's size when comparing, because obviously it can shrink and grow, and we are comparing the max size of the stick which is otherwise not apparent on the holder of the stick in normal times. This therefore allows for the stick's full size to be larger than the holder own size. ;)

Ah, so you believe that essence of a body precedes its existence. Suit yourself.

Quote from: vonGenf on November 30, 2011, 07:34:50 PM
Ah, so you believe that essence of a body precedes its existence. Suit yourself.

I believe that inflatable things can grow larger as you inflate them, that's all.

Quote from: Chénier on November 30, 2011, 08:23:08 PM
I believe that inflatable things can grow larger as you inflate them, that's all.

So D'Hara stick is inflatable, huh? I wonder what happened to the real one...

Quote from: JPierreD on November 30, 2011, 08:26:45 PM
So D'Hara stick is inflatable, huh? I wonder what happened to the real one...

In a museum of world records, ofc, silly you!  ;D

Quote from: Chénier on November 30, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
I am excluding the stick's size when comparing, because obviously it can shrink and grow, and we are comparing the max size of the stick which is otherwise not apparent on the holder of the stick in normal times. This therefore allows for the stick's full size to be larger than the holder own size. ;)

Oh!

We're talking about penises!

Now I get it.

Quote from: Vellos on December 01, 2011, 05:09:11 PM
Oh!

We're talking about penises!

Now I get it.

What, really?  :o

;D

Quote from: Chénier on December 01, 2011, 05:09:57 PM
What, really?  :o

;D

No silly, we are talking about expandable batons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:21%27_ASP_Baton.jpg)!

Quote from: De-Legro on November 30, 2011, 02:22:19 AM
Maybe if I use a REALLY long stick, like about the size of D'Hara?

Get a priest to convert Eregon to D'hara once it has gone rogue again ^_^

You know, it's actually *striking* how fast the wild areas are shrinking. We might have to petition Tom to start reducing travel times in order to encourage an increased number of wars between human realms. Even if travel times are reduced to something more in line with other continents, getting from the northern end of Dwilight to the southern is a long haul.

*Luria is entirely settled as far north as the mountains of the Divide.

*The Northeast is entirely settled as far south as Unterstrom and Shilorak.

*The Northwest is finally becoming settled, as Iashalur is making plans to retake Darfix.

*Caerwyn's territory has been completely resettled already

*Barca has expanded to fill up virtually all of the space between Aurvandil and the Zuma.

The only spaces I see remaining wild for any length of time are the Divide (at least until someone colonizes Flowrestown, and maybe not even then), the area between Chrysantalys and Samhain (at least until Iashalur acquires more nobles) and the wild spaces left over near the Zuma, because no one wants to what happened with Eragon to happen again.

I dont know why no noble wants to build a realm in the Divide that's a nice prime peace of real estate. It would make a great evil lair or a assassin realm made up completely of infiltrators. ;D   

Except it has no gold, no food and horrible travel times.

Quote from: Geronus on February 10, 2012, 09:49:49 PM
You know, it's actually *striking* how fast the wild areas are shrinking. We might have to petition Tom to start reducing travel times in order to encourage an increased number of wars between human realms. Even if travel times are reduced to something more in line with other continents, getting from the northern end of Dwilight to the southern is a long haul.

This would be very welcome -- there aren't any real prospects for war in the northeast, and we'd love to go fight somewhere.

Quote from: BardicNerd on February 11, 2012, 01:45:13 AM
This would be very welcome -- there aren't any real prospects for war in the northeast, and we'd love to go fight somewhere.

You all love your leaders and neighbors too much. Which is good, when you have enemies around. When not...

The various 'zones' of Dwilight are a bit small in and of themselves to support sustained conflict short of repeated civil wars, Luria-style. It's like having four little War Islands, only they aren't strategically balanced. There will be no war within the Northeast because Morek will probably crush any realm or combination of realms in that area that comes against it. There will be no war in the Southwest because of the Zuma and the Moot. And there will be no war in the Northwest because every realm up there is a colony of Astrum with strong and binding ties to each other.

I won't rule it out. I mean, things are sure to get stirred up sooner or later out of sheer boredom if nothing else. But the current dynamics of the island argue strongly against such conflict within most of the sub-regions so it's likely to be at least a bit on the artificial side, if not a lot on the artificial side. Morek and Astrum turning on each other isn't outside the realm of possibility but it is strongly disfavored by the close relationship they have. There would have to be a schism in the Church or something similar, and there's just absolutely no RP basis for anything like that right now.

I figure something is bound to happen even if Tom does nothing about the travel times, but I think it would be far more interesting if non-regional conflicts were made feasible by a reduction in travel times. Dwilight is bound to lose its frontier atmosphere as it is, given that the New Estate system allows the human realms to fill up all the empty space with far less characters than previously.

They should increase the sea routes on Dwilight and make some that surround the island etc so Asylon and nations like Libero can be reached by on their coasts or even strike out from their coasts. They really just need to develop a sea travel mechanism that isn't set but allows us to get troops on massive boats so we can sail to other continents and fight it out.

Quote from: Geronus on February 11, 2012, 02:44:48 AM
The various 'zones' of Dwilight are a bit small in and of themselves to support sustained conflict short of repeated civil wars, Luria-style. It's like having four little War Islands, only they aren't strategically balanced. There will be no war within the Northeast because Morek will probably crush any realm or combination of realms in that area that comes against it. There will be no war in the Southwest because of the Zuma and the Moot. And there will be no war in the Northwest because every realm up there is a colony of Astrum with strong and binding ties to each other.

So in the NW peace is Indirik's fault, in the NE is Busto's, in the SW is the Zuma and the 'moot's, and only the SE is cool because of the Lurias? (And an honorable mention for Madina and Aurvandi's South) 8)

Quote from: Sacha on February 10, 2012, 11:34:03 PM
Except it has no gold, no food and horrible travel times.

Does anyone have scout reports of the area, post realignment? I would be interested in the actual gold output and peasant population.

Each of those regions should have 500 bushels of food, or close to it--the Desert of Silhouettes did. So you wouldn't have to worry about food for a year.

Quote from: JPierreD on February 11, 2012, 04:04:34 AM
So in the NW peace is Indirik's fault, in the NE is Busto's, in the SW is the Zuma and the 'moot's, and only the SE is cool because of the Lurias? (And an honorable mention for Madina and Aurvandi's South) 8)

Pretty much  ;)

Quote from: Geronus on February 11, 2012, 02:44:48 AM
The various 'zones' of Dwilight are a bit small in and of themselves to support sustained conflict short of repeated civil wars, Luria-style. It's like having four little War Islands, only they aren't strategically balanced. There will be no war within the Northeast because Morek will probably crush any realm or combination of realms in that area that comes against it. There will be no war in the Southwest because of the Zuma and the Moot. And there will be no war in the Northwest because every realm up there is a colony of Astrum with strong and binding ties to each other.

I won't rule it out. I mean, things are sure to get stirred up sooner or later out of sheer boredom if nothing else. But the current dynamics of the island argue strongly against such conflict within most of the sub-regions so it's likely to be at least a bit on the artificial side, if not a lot on the artificial side. Morek and Astrum turning on each other isn't outside the realm of possibility but it is strongly disfavored by the close relationship they have. There would have to be a schism in the Church or something similar, and there's just absolutely no RP basis for anything like that right now.

I figure something is bound to happen even if Tom does nothing about the travel times, but I think it would be far more interesting if non-regional conflicts were made feasible by a reduction in travel times. Dwilight is bound to lose its frontier atmosphere as it is, given that the New Estate system allows the human realms to fill up all the empty space with far less characters than previously.

I disagree. I went to settle in a realm far away from SA on purpose. I like things being far. It would be absolutely unfair to accommodate the SA bloc's desires for crusade by reducing travel times every time they kill a neighbor.

No: you wanted to crush out all opposition? Then live with it. If you don't have a war on your doorstep, it's your own damn fault. The South has war, the East has war. The West doesn't, but that's mostly because we don't want any: we are close from many outside factions.

Turn on yourselves, or otherwise accept the fact that the continent won't be given to you on a silver platter. You want to crush the remaining blocs? Then suffer the travel times.

Quote from: Chénier on February 11, 2012, 05:15:18 PM
I disagree. I went to settle in a realm far away from SA on purpose. I like things being far. It would be absolutely unfair to accommodate the SA bloc's desires for crusade by reducing travel times every time they kill a neighbor.

No: you wanted to crush out all opposition? Then live with it. If you don't have a war on your doorstep, it's your own damn fault. The South has war, the East has war. The West doesn't, but that's mostly because we don't want any: we are close from many outside factions.

Turn on yourselves, or otherwise accept the fact that the continent won't be given to you on a silver platter. You want to crush the remaining blocs? Then suffer the travel times.

I agree with Chénier.

(Pause while universe implodes)

(Resume)

It was never meant to be easy for an army based in, say, Libidizedd to attack Flowrestown.  Dwilight is large, and travel times are long.  Just because you've managed to make a bloc that is currently aligned together doesn't mean you get to have travel times changed so your bloc can go on to dominate other sections of the continent.

Yes, there are some geographic boundaries that limit meaningful conflict between some combinations of areas of Dwilight. This is also by design.  I can't see any area of Dwilight that couldn't have plenty of intrigue, politics, and strife based on its geographic arrangement.

This is all stuff that we as players just need to deal with and work with IC, not try to get it changed OOC because you can't bear the thought of having a boring time followed by your bloc breaking up.

SA, a victim of its own success?  :o

Travel times are big, but so is Dwilight. SA has to travel days or weeks to fight an outside realm? Well, travel days or weeks. Not like that "bloc" isn't strong enough to land a few blows and establish other new realms in the Lurias or Moot territory. It'd be harder, because its further away. Shocking. Counter-attacks from the south would be just as difficult.I do find it ironic that Atamara's called dull, however, when there's rarely not a continental wide war there. What's the north of Dwilight seen in the last RL year?

Balance's Retreat. Not profitable? Well, the stronghold probably isn't. How about all those mountains? They have to produce enough food to feed themselves. Its a Rule. Same for BR stronghold. Only regions that don't produce enough food are cities, I've been told. Even still, a BR realm has D'Hara to its west, who want to sell people food. Rogues? Barca was full of rogues too. Unbearably so. Not exactly a big problem these days. Gold? Well, I can't say. I was and am planning at some point in the next few weeks to commission someone IC to go find out.

Would a BR realm be the strongest on Dwilight? Probably never. But most defendable? Well, unless compared to the Zuma or the SA realms to the very north, acceptably so because of the very travel times bitched about. But a BR realm has style. I never really looked at Darfix. I always thought a realm in those mountains north of the Lurias would be cool though. Still do, enough that I'd give up my Duchy if I had a chance to be a part of it. To answer the question though, unless it was well and truly impossible to survive, there definiately are players interested. Myself included, and not having discussed it at large, I know of three players straight away.

The fact that its right between three blocs does serve to make it appealing, but I suspect that's likely the biggest roadblock to it happening too. Pity.

Finn.

Quote from: Carna on February 11, 2012, 05:57:14 PM
SA, a victim of its own success?  :o

Travel times are big, but so is Dwilight. SA has to travel days or weeks to fight an outside realm? Well, travel days or weeks. Not like that "bloc" isn't strong enough to land a few blows and establish other new realms in the Lurias or Moot territory. It'd be harder, because its further away. Shocking. Counter-attacks from the south would be just as difficult.I do find it ironic that Atamara's called dull, however, when there's rarely not a continental wide war there. What's the north of Dwilight seen in the last RL year?

Balance's Retreat. Not profitable? Well, the stronghold probably isn't. How about all those mountains? They have to produce enough food to feed themselves. Its a Rule. Same for BR stronghold. Only regions that don't produce enough food are cities, I've been told. Even still, a BR realm has D'Hara to its west, who want to sell people food. Rogues? Barca was full of rogues too. Unbearably so. Not exactly a big problem these days. Gold? Well, I can't say. I was and am planning at some point in the next few weeks to commission someone IC to go find out.

Would a BR realm be the strongest on Dwilight? Probably never. But most defendable? Well, unless compared to the Zuma or the SA realms to the very north, acceptably so because of the very travel times bitched about. But a BR realm has style. I never really looked at Darfix. I always thought a realm in those mountains north of the Lurias would be cool though. Still do, enough that I'd give up my Duchy if I had a chance to be a part of it. To answer the question though, unless it was well and truly impossible to survive, there definiately are players interested. Myself included, and not having discussed it at large, I know of three players straight away.

The fact that its right between three blocs does serve to make it appealing, but I suspect that's likely the biggest roadblock to it happening too. Pity.

Finn.

The Divides don't produce much gold either. The whole area probably doesn't reach 1,000 gold income. There are townslands that are richer.

Quote from: Chénier on February 11, 2012, 05:15:18 PM
The West doesn't, but that's mostly because we don't want any: we are close from many outside factions.

Heh.

Terran is literally gnawing at the bit, practically begging for a war. Just nobody is giving us one. Damn D'Haran peaceniks.

Quote from: Vellos on February 11, 2012, 07:50:04 PM
Heh.

Terran is literally gnawing at the bit, practically begging for a war. Just nobody is giving us one. Damn D'Haran peaceniks.

Get Terran to go attack Aurvandil they are getting a bit big for their britches. :D

Quote from: Sacha on February 11, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
The Divides don't produce much gold either. The whole area probably doesn't reach 1,000 gold income. There are townslands that are richer.

Divides might be a horrible place gold wise but it makes up for it in defensibility. There is no where on the map that is more defensible then the Divides. 

Quote from: Creed on February 11, 2012, 08:00:17 PM
Get Terran to go attack Aurvandil they are getting a bit big for their britches. :D

Yeah, ummm... it's more likely we'd join in the gangbang on Madina at this point. :P

Quote from: Vellos on February 11, 2012, 07:50:04 PM
Heh.

Terran is literally gnawing at the bit, practically begging for a war. Just nobody is giving us one. Damn D'Haran peaceniks.

You like to huff and puff, but really we know you like the comforts of peace too much. ;)

Quote from: Vellos on February 11, 2012, 08:41:12 PM
Yeah, ummm... it's more likely we'd join in the gangbang on Madina at this point. :P

Even us peaceniks would be open to that idea!  ;D

Chenier, you do realize that D'Hara really isn't all that far from Morek, Astrum, and Corsanctum, right? Just a short little sea passage, and we have a border war. ;)

Quote from: Chénier on February 11, 2012, 08:59:45 PM
You like to huff and puff, but really we know you like the comforts of peace too much. ;)

Actually, no. Look at our CS chart. We'd really like to use all that.

Quote from: Vellos on February 12, 2012, 02:43:41 AM
Actually, no. Look at our CS chart. We'd really like to use all that.

Huff and puff. ;)

Quote from: Indirik on February 11, 2012, 10:05:28 PM
Chenier, you do realize that D'Hara really isn't all that far from Morek, Astrum, and Corsanctum, right? Just a short little sea passage, and we have a border war. ;)

None of them have any reason to invade. And we *do* house SA's leader. And Terran is half SA. Hard to use that "defense of persecuted SA followers" in such cases.

Indeed, if they don't invade, they can sell us their excess food, which is basically like a tribute. Free gold for them, because excess food just rots and serves no purpose anyways.

We have to stock up to feed Darfix.  :-\

Thats the thing Asylon and Terran are very SA tolerant, well in Asylons case even rules by an Astroist king. Asylon isn't fundamentalist but thats hardly and issue because neither is Summerdale and Libero. I think the Prophet in Corsanctum should just say 'everyone fight! whoever wins is the most virtuous realm and will be brought into heaven with the prophet in  the end times...lololol"

Why do people always try to let reality get in the way of a good war declaration.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 12, 2012, 03:49:53 AM
Why do people always try to let reality get in the way of a good war declaration.

Kabrinskia is always free to declare war on Ishaltur.

Because no one wants to lose and just like poker, everyone wants someone to sucker someone else to go all in on a bad hand...

Quote from: Glaumring on February 12, 2012, 05:38:15 AM
Because no one wants to lose and just like poker, everyone wants someone to sucker someone else to go all in on a bad hand...

Though you can win with a bad hand in poker.

Quote from: Creed on February 12, 2012, 06:49:25 PM
Though you can win with a bad hand in poker.

You can win with a bad realm in BM. Aurvandil's geography in no way favored them in this war. Had Madina been the least bit competent, Aurvandil would have been swiftly crushed.

Similarly, on BT, Rio always had better movement rates than Enweil and good military leadership. If Enweil beat it so many times, it was because of its vastly superior economy (it wasn't doing so well in the last war, because precisely the invasion had boosted Rio and greatly weakened Enweil's economy).

Proof that both economy and cohesiveness can, basically on their own, grant victory.

Quote from: Chénier on February 12, 2012, 06:55:01 PMAurvandil's geography in no way favored them in this war.

Yes it does. It obviously does. The only way Madina could attack was by sea passage to a stronghold. That's a very big advantage.

That's not to say that Madina was no incompetent. They did not handle things well at all. But that doesn't mean that Aurvandil didn't have a geographic advantage.

Quote from: Indirik on February 12, 2012, 07:20:40 PM
Yes it does. It obviously does. The only way Madina could attack was by sea passage to a stronghold. That's a very big advantage.

That's not to say that Madina was no incompetent. They did not handle things well at all. But that doesn't mean that Aurvandil didn't have a geographic advantage.

No, it wasn't. Geography strongly favored Madina over Aurvandil. Aurvandil had a city to defend, while Madina had a stronghold to their defense: Madina could afford greater walls. On top of that, Madina had wealthier lands, with those townslands and a big city. Finally, Aurvandil had a completely exposed rear, while no one could easily backstab Madina.

That nobody ended up backstabbing Aurvandil does not mean that the serious vulnerability did not exist.

Madina had the stronghold? Hrmm... I had that backward. I still wouldn't call Aurvandil's position weak. They were only fighting Madina, and Madina couldn't hit them from behind. Everyone knew that Barca wasn't about to attack them from behind. Aurvandil couldn't be attacked from behind any more than Madina could. Barca was giving Aurvandil rich land. They wouldn't be doing that if they were going to attack, or permit them to be attacked. The only way Aurvandil could be attacked was that sea route, ending in a heavily fortified city.

Quote from: Indirik on February 12, 2012, 07:49:02 PM
Madina had the stronghold? Hrmm... I had that backward. I still wouldn't call Aurvandil's position weak. They were only fighting Madina, and Madina couldn't hit them from behind. Everyone knew that Barca wasn't about to attack them from behind. Aurvandil couldn't be attacked from behind any more than Madina could. Barca was giving Aurvandil rich land. They wouldn't be doing that if they were going to attack, or permit them to be attacked. The only way Aurvandil could be attacked was that sea route, ending in a heavily fortified city.

Barca didn't do that as soon as the war began. And the 'moot not attacking that flank was 100% of Madina's own doing. Just as was the 'Moot's intervention in the early phases of the war when Aurvandil was still quite weak. Was it not for our intervention, Madina could probably have run over Aurvandil there and then. Aurvandil was not always this strong at all.

Note to self: Destroy the 'moot for allowing evil to thrive.

Quote from: Sacha on February 12, 2012, 07:58:16 PM
Note to self: Destroy the 'moot for allowing evil to thrive.

Some in the moot really wanted to side with Madina, but Madina just wasn't doing itself any favors.

Excuses, excuses.

Quote from: Chénier on February 12, 2012, 08:07:13 PM
Some in the moot really wanted to side with Madina, but Madina just wasn't doing itself any favors.

Yeah... if Madina had just played nice and given us what we asked for, Aurvandil would be crushed, and we'd be well on our way to having a 4th Moot realm.

But Madina didn't have enough of a will to live.

Quote from: Vellos on February 12, 2012, 08:58:39 PM
Yeah... if Madina had just played nice and given us what we asked for, Aurvandil would be crushed, and we'd be well on our way to having a 4th Moot realm.

But Madina didn't have enough of a will to live.

Yep...Madina insisted on their suicidal political system and 50 gold per bushel of food.

And, one of the Madinan lords was rude to Gornak, so he bought food from Aurvrandil instead. It pays to be nice...

Quote from: egamma on February 12, 2012, 09:16:25 PM
Yep...Madina insisted on their suicidal political system and 50 gold per bushel of food.

And, one of the Madinan lords was rude to Gornak, so he bought food from Aurvrandil instead. It pays to be nice...

50 gold per bushel of food? That is absurd. That's more than the Zuma would pay for food. I mean seriously, 5000 gold for 100 bushels is just insane.

But in response to the topic at hand, I must say, I think this simply proves that Luria is by and far the best part of Dwilight since we are the only part of Dwilight who will never have a problem of boredom.

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 12, 2012, 09:24:33 PM
50 gold per bushel of food? That is absurd. That's more than the Zuma would pay for food. I mean seriously, 5000 gold for 100 bushels is just insane.

But in response to the topic at hand, I must say, I think this simply proves that Luria is by and far the best part of Dwilight since we are the only part of Dwilight who will never have a problem of boredom.

That would be 50 gold per 100, which is the most you can charge I think. You can only set buy and sell prices in allotments of 100 bushels.

Quote from: Geronus on February 12, 2012, 09:29:21 PM
That would be 50 gold per 100, which is the most you can charge I think. You can only set buy and sell prices in allotments of 100 bushels.

Really? So the code has changed that as well then? You used to be able to buy and sell at whatever prices you wanted to.

Quote from: Geronus on February 12, 2012, 09:29:21 PM
That would be 50 gold per 100, which is the most you can charge I think. You can only set buy and sell prices in allotments of 100 bushels.

You can buy or sell at any price.

Food was D'Hara's main demand, but, as it would happen, D'hara wasn't the muscle behind the Moot at the time. As Terran's armies would have been doing much of the fighting, what we wanted was for Madina to alter its government system to ensure a more stable, centralized, controlled system. I get why they rejected that demand, but I don't think they realized at the time the effect their decision would have.

Of course, even if they had reformed their government, we still would have demanded high food prices. And we would have been looking for a way to co-opt the intended colony to turn it against Madina.

Quote from: Vellos on February 12, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
You can buy or sell at any price.

Food was D'Hara's main demand, but, as it would happen, D'hara wasn't the muscle behind the Moot at the time. As Terran's armies would have been doing much of the fighting, what we wanted was for Madina to alter its government system to ensure a more stable, centralized, controlled system. I get why they rejected that demand, but I don't think they realized at the time the effect their decision would have.

Of course, even if they had reformed their government, we still would have demanded high food prices. And we would have been looking for a way to co-opt the intended colony to turn it against Madina.

Madina's whole point of differentiation was their crazy government, it was the very core of the realm. If they had to give that up to get support, they may just have had to question if the realm that would survive was worth it. Perhaps for all the selfish behaviour their government encouraged, they were one of the few realms who's sense of honour prevented them from betraying their ideals to merely survive.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 12, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
Madina's whole point of differentiation was their crazy government, it was the very core of the realm. If they had to give that up to get support, they may just have had to question if the realm that would survive was worth it. Perhaps for all the selfish behaviour their government encouraged, they were one of the few realms who's sense of honour prevented them from betraying their ideals to merely survive.

Hehe, look at PeL. "Sense of honour" = destruction. funny how that happens.

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 12, 2012, 11:20:05 PM
Hehe, look at PeL. "Sense of honour" = destruction. funny how that happens.

The realm poisoned their own King, honour may not be quite the word you are looking for.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 12, 2012, 11:48:30 PM
The realm poisoned their own King, honour may not be quite the word you are looking for.

Well that first part isn't decidedly confirmed one way or the other.

What I meant was, being honorable enough to not ask their own nobles to commit suicide including members of their realm government, and making demands of determining the leadership of a fellow realm. (Excluding Koli because he's not there anymore)

Although that brings up a good point, perhaps it is curious that King Koli being put out of the way is also wanted by many of those now waring on PeL and they are all quite happy with the outcome of it, even if they dislike how it occurred? (Would have rather deposed him themselves?)

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 12, 2012, 11:51:25 PM
Well that first part isn't decidedly confirmed one way or the other.

What I meant was, being honorable enough to not ask their own nobles to commit suicide including members of their realm government, and making demands of determining the leadership of a fellow realm. (Excluding Koli because he's not there anymore)

Although that brings up a good point, perhaps it is curious that King Koli being put out of the way is also wanted by many of those now waring on PeL and they are all quite happy with the outcome of it, even if they dislike how it occurred? (Would have rather deposed him themselves?)

Actually, Solaria at least wanted King Koli to remain, we just wanted some of the nobles that were forcing him to make bad compromises removed. Notice we never issued a blood debt on Koli, nor required him to abdicate.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 12, 2012, 11:55:15 PM
Actually, Solaria at least wanted King Koli to remain, we just wanted some of the nobles that were forcing him to make bad compromises removed. Notice we never issued a blood debt on Koli, nor required him to abdicate.

Luria Nova wanted him gone apparently though. Although my character was never one forcing him to do anything it seems at least to me.

Quote from: Creed on February 12, 2012, 06:49:25 PM
Though you can win with a bad hand in poker.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you play every bad hand given to you just hoping through some sort of luck you'll take the whole table, knowing when to play a bad hand or not is part of the strategy. Not everyone enjoys  the delicate intricate dance that is war, many consider it a savage art... Where others believe it is the highest form of human expression.

Quote from: Carna on February 11, 2012, 05:57:14 PM
Balance's Retreat. Not profitable? Well, the stronghold probably isn't. How about all those mountains? They have to produce enough food to feed themselves. Its a Rule. Same for BR stronghold. Only regions that don't produce enough food are cities, I've been told. Even still, a BR realm has D'Hara to its west, who want to sell people food. Rogues? Barca was full of rogues too. Unbearably so. Not exactly a big problem these days. Gold? Well, I can't say. I was and am planning at some point in the next few weeks to commission someone IC to go find out.

Would a BR realm be the strongest on Dwilight? Probably never. But most defendable? Well, unless compared to the Zuma or the SA realms to the very north, acceptably so because of the very travel times bitched about. But a BR realm has style. I never really looked at Darfix. I always thought a realm in those mountains north of the Lurias would be cool though. Still do, enough that I'd give up my Duchy if I had a chance to be a part of it. To answer the question though, unless it was well and truly impossible to survive, there definiately are players interested. Myself included, and not having discussed it at large, I know of three players straight away.

When you consider that soldiers travel through the region and consume food, a realm in BR would have negative food output. I don't know after the production changes, but before the gold production of each mountain didn't reach three digits. So if you don't have food nor gold to buy it then it serves for little to have a "defensible" position.

Regardless all of that, if I ever get the chance I will attempt to do it. I just realize it will be a realm completely dependent on others, both for food, gold and even soldiers (it won't be able to support many nobles and their RCs will draft painfully slowly).

Quote from: JPierreD on February 13, 2012, 03:58:52 AM
When you consider that soldiers travel through the region and consume food, a realm in BR would have negative food output. I don't know after the production changes, but before the gold production of each mountain didn't reach three digits. So if you don't have food nor gold to buy it then it serves for little to have a "defensible" position.

Regardless all of that, if I ever get the chance I will attempt to do it. I just realize it will be a realm completely dependent on others, both for food, gold and even soldiers (it won't be able to support many nobles and their RCs will draft painfully slowly).

AKA: Awesome Crusader/Monastery/Templar/Religious Order stronghold locked away in the mountains funded and supplied by the rich and powerful parent realm/organization.

Quote from: Perth on February 13, 2012, 07:56:34 AM
AKA: Awesome Crusader/Monastery/Templar/Religious Order stronghold locked away in the mountains funded and supplied by the rich and powerful parent realm/organization.

Precisely, with priests coming and going to bring gold to the realm. ;D

The question becomes: When everyone gets contaced very soon about making this a reality, will people actually stand by the stuff they think IC?

We'll see I guess, because the IC motivation and reasons for doing so are already in place and under way...

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 13, 2012, 08:01:17 AM
The question becomes: When everyone gets contaced very soon about making this a reality, will people actually stand by the stuff they think IC?

We'll see I guess, because the IC motivation and reasons for doing so are already in place and under way...

Do you mean the Manifest Path's crusader-state-dream?

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 13, 2012, 08:01:17 AM
The question becomes: When everyone gets contaced very soon about making this a reality, will people actually stand by the stuff they think IC?

We'll see I guess, because the IC motivation and reasons for doing so are already in place and under way...

Considering the number of groups that currently lay claim to the region, I would think any group attempting it may face stiff competition. Bigger problem is only a few realms are capable of setting it up, since colony takeovers aren't active on testing, so you need to expand to the region then secede.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 13, 2012, 11:03:43 AM
Considering the number of groups that currently lay claim to the region, I would think any group attempting it may face stiff competition. Bigger problem is only a few realms are capable of setting it up, since colony takeovers aren't active on testing, so you need to expand to the region then secede.

How long have colony takeovers been disactive? This is the first that I've heard of such a thing, and how long till that is fixed?

The number of groups that actually lay claim to the Divides, (with historical basis for such) actually isn't that much. They key is simply to have support from a lot of people, while having actual backing from at least one of those main groups. Especially with what, at least 2 dukes now having stated they be willing to go for it? That's a lot of gold...

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 13, 2012, 08:32:31 PM
How long have colony takeovers been disactive? This is the first that I've heard of such a thing, and how long till that is fixed?

The new takeover system does not yet support colony takeovers. We're working on a good way to handle them.

Quote
The number of groups that actually lay claim to the Divides, (with historical basis for such) actually isn't that much. They key is simply to have support from a lot of people, while having actual backing from at least one of those main groups. Especially with what, at least 2 dukes now having stated they be willing to go for it? That's a lot of gold...

Um...I don't think anyone besides Luria really has much of a historical basis for a claim. Unless you're talking a role-played historical basis, which anyone could make up if it suited them.

As far as groups that have stated their intention to go claim the Retreat and the Divides...there's got to be at least a half-dozen. Probably more that I never heard about.

To be fair, many of these groups let go of their plans once they find out that Divide mountains =/= big bags of sweet mountain gold. And there was at least one group who thought BR was a city, and not a stronghold. When they found out it was the latter, they abandoned the idea :P

Balance's Retreat being a stronghold actually makes it better than a city. At least it can feed itself.

That doesn't mean that the realm in that location can actually be worth anything. I'm just sayin'...

But it could be a fun place to be. :)

Quote from: Indirik on February 13, 2012, 09:32:13 PM
Balance's Retreat being a stronghold actually makes it better than a city. At least it can feed itself.

That doesn't mean that the realm in that location can actually be worth anything. I'm just sayin'...

But it could be a fun place to be. :)

Depends on how you define worth anything. I mean, a realm that is fairly hard to attack, while not really being a military threat to anyone, has a lot of possibilities. May not be worth much on a strategy game side, but otherwise, can be a lot of fun.

Well, I did say it could be fun.

Quote from: Indirik on February 13, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
Well, I did say it could be fun.

True, just saying it could still be "worth something" depending upon what you want it for.

I think we can all agree that whoever thinks they can have an uber-1337 asskicking mountain fortress goldmine with BR at the core is going to be sorely disappointed if they ever make it all the way up there.

But, purely for RP possibilities, I'd be very interested in seeing a realm or even a duchy formed there.

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 13, 2012, 08:32:31 PM
How long have colony takeovers been disactive? This is the first that I've heard of such a thing, and how long till that is fixed?

The number of groups that actually lay claim to the Divides, (with historical basis for such) actually isn't that much. They key is simply to have support from a lot of people, while having actual backing from at least one of those main groups. Especially with what, at least 2 dukes now having stated they be willing to go for it? That's a lot of gold...

Sure, now you need to do is get the IG support of those Dukes for your effort, when for all you know they support one of the many existing effort. This isn't a case of, yeah people will pony up support for anyone interested.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 13, 2012, 10:14:16 PM
Sure, now you need to do is get the IG support of those Dukes for your effort, when for all you know they support one of the many existing effort. This isn't a case of, yeah people will pony up support for anyone interested.

Haha, I understand completely. That's why everything beyond these vague statements is handled IC as it should be.

Quote from: Sacha on February 13, 2012, 09:45:56 PM
I think we can all agree that whoever thinks they can have an uber-1337 asskicking mountain fortress goldmine with BR at the core is going to be sorely disappointed if they ever make it all the way up there.

But, purely for RP possibilities, I'd be very interested in seeing a realm or even a duchy formed there.

Would a BR realm be so different from later-life Ubent?

Except its neighbors would be more distant, and it's mountains even more difficult to assail?

Personally, if I could contrive an RP basis for my next character to go to a BR realm, I would. I just think it'd be really neat.

Quote from: egamma on February 12, 2012, 09:16:25 PM
Yep...Madina insisted on their suicidal political system and 50 gold per bushel of food.

And, one of the Madinan lords was rude to Gornak, so he bought food from Aurvrandil instead. It pays to be nice...

Their duke was also rude to Machiavel. And so Paisly as well bought from Aurvandil, and from everywhere else, limiting imports from Madina to a bare minimum while buying as much as possible from Aurvandil.

Quote from: Vellos on February 12, 2012, 10:11:20 PM
You can buy or sell at any price.

Food was D'Hara's main demand, but, as it would happen, D'hara wasn't the muscle behind the Moot at the time. As Terran's armies would have been doing much of the fighting, what we wanted was for Madina to alter its government system to ensure a more stable, centralized, controlled system. I get why they rejected that demand, but I don't think they realized at the time the effect their decision would have.

Of course, even if they had reformed their government, we still would have demanded high food prices. And we would have been looking for a way to co-opt the intended colony to turn it against Madina.

Terran might be the might, but D'Hara produces a lot of gold. We don't have a big army because nobody sees the need for one or cares to spend their gold on one. Though the high prices we were paying did cause some serious financial strains at times, these were exaggerated a bit as well: Out of Paisly's huge trade deficit, most of that gold was going to D'Haran regions, for example. We couldn't have fought Madina very hard ourselves, but we sure could have financed Aurvandil's war efforts with relative ease.

Quote from: Indirik on February 13, 2012, 09:32:13 PM
Balance's Retreat being a stronghold actually makes it better than a city. At least it can feed itself.

That doesn't mean that the realm in that location can actually be worth anything. I'm just sayin'...

But it could be a fun place to be. :)

I think isolation is overrated. The concept sounds cool, but this game is based on communication, and the cool factor of being cut off from everyone will quickly lose its appeal, imo. It the settlers of BR want a good time, they have to make sure to maintain constant communication with the outside world. Which is feasible, if you consider it would likely need to be sponsored by an established realm, or many, to have any chances whatsoever.

As far as Ubent goes, yes it is quite a bit different. Mountain regions on EC are financially well-off, and produce a decent surplus of food. On Dwilight they are poor in both food and gold, and have a pretty low pop.

Quote from: Vellos on February 14, 2012, 12:20:32 AM
Would a BR realm be so different from later-life Ubent?

Except its neighbors would be more distant, and it's mountains even more difficult to assail?

Personally, if I could contrive an RP basis for my next character to go to a BR realm, I would. I just think it'd be really neat.

Ubent's close, but there are still some differences. The mountains around Castle Ubent were a lot wealthier than those around BR. One Ubent mountain probably had about the same gold output as all the Divides together. And by the time Ubent had shrunk to BR-sized proportions, it had been around for years, and used to be a lot larger and more powerful. I don't know how the realm was created, but I don't think it was through a CTO of a dirt-poor region surrounded by dirt-poor mountains, more likely through secession of a well-established duchy.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a BR realm, but I make no illusions that BR alone would ever bring the realm to a level of power even close to its closest neighbors. With Morek, Corsanctum, D'Hara and Solaria creeping ever closer to the mountains, and the very likely scenario that a fifth realm will be established in Flowrestown, that's a lot of potential enemies. If a war breaks out in the area, BR would need to either remain neutral, or bet it all on picking a side and hoping they prevail.

They do have good defensive options, but travel times through the Alley of Swords are not as long as those through the Divides. A bottleneck, sure, but with the poor income they'll have, they can't withstand much enemy onslaught. They'd get pinned down in BR much like Thulsoma was pinned down in Storm's Keep, and from then on it's just a matter of time. Compare it to the battle of Helm's Deep from LoTR minus the Rohirrim arriving in the nick of time to save the fortress from falling to the Uruk-hai.

Quote from: Sacha on February 14, 2012, 01:03:15 AM
Ubent's close, but there are still some differences. The mountains around Castle Ubent were a lot wealthier than those around BR. One Ubent mountain probably had about the same gold output as all the Divides together. And by the time Ubent had shrunk to BR-sized proportions, it had been around for years, and used to be a lot larger and more powerful. I don't know how the realm was created, but I don't think it was through a CTO of a dirt-poor region surrounded by dirt-poor mountains, more likely through secession of a well-established duchy.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of a BR realm, but I make no illusions that BR alone would ever bring the realm to a level of power even close to its closest neighbors. With Morek, Corsanctum, D'Hara and Solaria creeping ever closer to the mountains, and the very likely scenario that a fifth realm will be established in Flowrestown, that's a lot of potential enemies. If a war breaks out in the area, BR would need to either remain neutral, or bet it all on picking a side and hoping they prevail.

They do have good defensive options, but travel times through the Alley of Swords are not as long as those through the Divides. A bottleneck, sure, but with the poor income they'll have, they can't withstand much enemy onslaught. They'd get pinned down in BR much like Thulsoma was pinned down in Storm's Keep, and from then on it's just a matter of time. Compare it to the battle of Helm's Deep from LoTR minus the Rohirrim arriving in the nick of time to save the fortress from falling to the Uruk-hai.

Whoever said that BR would ever want to fight in a war? That just seems like a losing proposition to everyone. Claim absolute neutrality and never pose a threat to anyone. By doing so, you save yourself having to fight wars.

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 14, 2012, 01:20:50 AM
Whoever said that BR would ever want to fight in a war? That just seems like a losing proposition to everyone. Claim absolute neutrality and never pose a threat to anyone. By doing so, you save yourself having to fight wars.

Then it would be boring. Whaddya gonna do? Beg other realms to feed your dirt poor mountains, and fight monsters? It doesn't seem like a very exciting life in the mountains. Sadly, a BR realm is not a very appealing.

If there was a trade good that came from mountains, on the other hand...

Quote from: Adriddae on February 14, 2012, 01:25:41 AM
Then it would be boring. Whaddya gonna do? Beg other realms to feed your dirt poor mountains, and fight monsters? It doesn't seem like a very exciting life in the mountains. Sadly, a BR realm is not a very appealing.

If there was a trade good that came from mountains, on the other hand...

You act like a lot of realms don't currently have the problem of not having anyone to fight. Look at the Moot and SA? They are all friendly with everyone around them. This is a pretty common trait of Dwilight, not fighting wars. Plus, I have plenty of ideas of ways to keep one's nobles occupied.

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 14, 2012, 01:20:50 AM
Whoever said that BR would ever want to fight in a war? That just seems like a losing proposition to everyone. Claim absolute neutrality and never pose a threat to anyone. By doing so, you save yourself having to fight wars.

Many seem to think that BR = impenetrable fortress = domination. And I've seen your ways of keeping things interesting without wars. Usually they end up in wars :P

You may be able to do some form of religious center in the realm. But you'd have to have a rather powerful religion and large noble base to support that. You could then try pilgrimages, and mandatory religious service, etc. We tried something like that with SA and Corsanctum, but it was a total flop. Not enough people are willing to swap realms like that. Especially once you start talking about having to give up lordships and council positions.

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 14, 2012, 01:28:16 AM
You act like a lot of realms don't currently have the problem of not having anyone to fight. Look at the Moot and SA? They are all friendly with everyone around them. This is a pretty common trait of Dwilight, not fighting wars. Plus, I have plenty of ideas of ways to keep one's nobles occupied.

None of them have Brom setting up the realm, with a militant realm south of them wanting his blood.

Quote from: Sacha on February 14, 2012, 01:42:57 AM
Many seem to think that BR = impenetrable fortress = domination. And I've seen your ways of keeping things interesting without wars. Usually they end up in wars :P

Well it'd be a lot easier to avoid such wars without a certain annoying young knight with all the same traits as the previous family hating on my character.

Anyway, this won't be the same way of keeping things interesting, although Luria was never dull.

Quote from: De-Legro on February 14, 2012, 01:58:58 AM
None of them have Brom setting up the realm, with a militant realm south of them wanting his blood.

Well, that explains a lot. Brom's blood is tasty, but I didn't think Solarians ate humans. (They just give them to their zuma friends)

Quote from: Dante Silverfire on February 14, 2012, 02:00:01 AM
Well it'd be a lot easier to avoid such wars without a certain annoying young knight with all the same traits as the previous family hating on my character.

2 things wrong with that statement.

1. If the Ortiz hadn't been around, you'd still be dealing with Capets, and the hatred would go far beyond a few zingers in the Halls now and then.
2. If you think Luis not existing would have saved you from a war, you're giving me way, way, way, way too much credit for my involvement in this. Besides, your fate was decided before I deleted the Capets anyway.

Quote from: Sacha on February 14, 2012, 02:34:58 AM
2 things wrong with that statement.

1. If the Ortiz hadn't been around, you'd still be dealing with Capets, and the hatred would go far beyond a few zingers in the Halls now and then.
2. If you think Luis not existing would have saved you from a war, you're giving me way, way, way, way too much credit for my involvement in this. Besides, your fate was decided before I deleted the Capets anyway.

1. The Capets were just as ostracized if not more than the Silverfires. People wouldn't consider what you said as valid simply because it'd be rehashing old arguments. However, rehashing old arguments from a completely new family, that were based solely off the old, is just somewhat weird.
2. Saved me from the war? Likely not. Being one of the few to continuously point out Brom's faults. Ya, that causes a problem. Thus, preventing peace, quite involved.

Quote from: Ramiel on November 23, 2011, 06:08:14 PM/me laughs and wonders what will happen the two SA people see what the map looks like in January :D

So... It's March already, and I really don't see anything amazingly different.

Or perhaps you meant January 2013? ;)

I bet Ramiel isn't laughing at the current map xD

Quote from: Sacha on March 12, 2012, 11:55:57 PM
I bet Ramiel isn't laughing at the current map xD

;D

Quote from: Chénier on March 13, 2012, 01:27:32 AM
;D

:'(

Well no, he is insane and technically dead. The only reason he is still around is to finish off one small rp with some others. That is unless Brom should come close, then its time to go a-brom-hunting.

@Indirik: even Ramiel did not predict the treachery of Solaria and the greed of Fulco D`Este. He thought Bedwyr would have completed the two colony plans. Meh things happen and people wreck plans.

The next toon might go to Kabrinski/w.e. :)

Quote from: Ramiel on March 15, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
The next toon might go to Kabrinski/w.e. :)

"toon"?  I am unfamiliar with the word used in this context?  Your next character might come to Kabrinskia?  The more the merrier!

Toon = character.

Quote from: Indirik on March 15, 2012, 01:31:41 AM
Toon = character.

A hideous term in the eyes of myself and at least some others.

I dont see it that way as toon is just a shortened version of cartoon which isn't necessarily bad.

Quote from: Ramiel on March 15, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
Well no, he is insane and technically dead. The only reason he is still around is to finish off one small rp with some others. That is unless Brom should come close, then its time to go a-brom-hunting.

@Indirik: even Ramiel did not predict the treachery of Solaria and the greed of Fulco D`Este. He thought Bedwyr would have completed the two colony plans. Meh things happen and people wreck plans.

The next toon might go to Kabrinski/w.e. :)

Too bad, Brom has more friends than Ramiel, and stronger ones too. Plus, I'm sure you'd grow bored of it rather quickly.

Anyway, I have to agree "toon" is kind of an 'interesting' way to say character.

Quote from: Penchant on March 15, 2012, 02:54:51 AM
I dont see it that way as toon is just a shortened version of cartoon which isn't necessarily bad.

We're not drawing a comic, we're writing a story. They're characters like Lancelot and Gandalf, not Donald Duck and Betty Boop.

Quote from: egamma on March 15, 2012, 05:24:13 AM
We're not drawing a comic, we're writing a story. They're characters like Lancelot and Gandalf, not Donald Duck and Betty Boop.

Its slang, so long as they aren't using it in RP's or in game who really cares.

Quote from: Ramiel on March 15, 2012, 12:35:51 AM
@Indirik: even Ramiel did not predict the treachery of Solaria and the greed of Fulco D`Este. He thought Bedwyr would have completed the two colony plans. Meh things happen and people wreck plans.

Ramiel, there were many reasons for the war, but greed wasn't among them.

Quote from: De-Legro on March 15, 2012, 05:28:03 AM
Its slang, so long as they aren't using it in RP's or in game who really cares.

I'm not gonna whack anyone with a stick because they use it, I do have friends who use it.

But as was said, "toon" for "cartoon"? I just dislike the sound of it. Makes me imagine a pixelized FF character or something.

Quote from: egamma on March 15, 2012, 05:24:13 AM
We're not drawing a comic, we're writing a story. They're characters like Lancelot and Gandalf, not Donald Duck and Betty Boop.

Obviously you never visited Norland.

Quote from: Perth on March 15, 2012, 05:11:26 PM
Obviously you never visited Norland.

I did. I do my best to forget it.

Quote from: Chénier on March 15, 2012, 11:21:17 PM
I did. I do my best to forget it.

Things like that... scar a mind.

Quote from: Perth on March 16, 2012, 03:47:20 AM

Things like that... scar a mind.

Indeed.

You see, I do find "toon" to be quite appropriate of what I saw in Norland.

But what I saw in Norland are things I would never wish to see again anywhere else. Toons do that stuff. Not characters.

I accept your false abhorrence of my wording, and I choose to completely and fully ignore it.

If I drew my character, it would be called a cartoon, even if it was not done in a Disney style etc.

Besides, I reserve the right to say toon/character/cartoon/actor/FSM if I feel like it.

Have a good day! I must be off to DnD now, got a campaign awaiting!

Quote from: Ramiel on March 16, 2012, 08:12:00 PM
Have a good day! I must be off to DnD now, got a campaign awaiting!

As do I, as soon as my ride arrives.

Quote from: Chénier on March 16, 2012, 10:36:52 PM
As do I, as soon as my ride arrives.

I do not. :'(

Quote from: JPierreD on March 16, 2012, 11:07:52 PM
I do not. :'(

Would thou be interested in an online campaign? Possibly on a forum or over VoIP (Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo).

Been giving it some thought...

Quote from: Ramiel on March 17, 2012, 02:50:43 AM
Would thou be interested in an online campaign? Possibly on a forum or over VoIP (Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo).

Been giving it some thought...

Hope I'm not butting in, but...
1) should this be moved to general talk?
2) I would be interested in a VoIP campaign, and I can provide a pretty sweet online conferencing system (Microsoft Lync). People can use cameras and everything. Of course, google talk has pretty similar functionality. But the whiteboard feature would be nice for drawing maps, etc.

Quote from: Ramiel on March 17, 2012, 02:50:43 AM
Would thou be interested in an online campaign? Possibly on a forum or over VoIP (Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo).

Been giving it some thought...

I'd be up for it.

Quote from: Ramiel on March 17, 2012, 02:50:43 AM
Would thou be interested in an online campaign? Possibly on a forum or over VoIP (Teamspeak/Mumble/Ventrilo).

Been giving it some thought...

I'd do it, but you'd have to keep in mind that I haven't played for around 3 or 4 years.

Open up a thread in "Other Games" and we'll see who gets in.