Re: Idea: Plate Mail

[Duvaille]

So there is a concern that if unique items were not destroyed, new items would not be introduced and the repertoire of items would at the end become stale, and adventurers would not be able to bring in new items.

All of the above can be solved while still holding on to somewhat permanent items.

You could remove item decay entirely but instead increase chances of them being lost in battles, especially if you are wounded (and you could introduce other ways you could lose them). As the item is lost, a "quest" of sorts is created. The quests would be mostly done by the adventurers. They could have elements such as searching areas, finding certain components, gathering rumors about the artifact, traveling to distant places etc.

Let's assume an island would have around 100 items in use on the average. If there were 0 items in use, the quests would be very easy, and the items would generally be also randomly found very easily.  But with 100 items the quests would get progressively more difficult. New items could be introduced still by the adventurers, but once lost, they would also be very difficult (or at least time consuming) to find again. This would mean that very important items with plentiful of lore would be sought sparing not coin nor effort, but the less important ones would not be worth the trouble, and would eventually be forgotten entirely and then after some time deleted. But as long as the game would detect signs of someone still tracking the item, it would be "alive".

So then the items that people generally did not care about very much would be lost and eventually deleted, but those that truly are very important would not vanish, but would instead have more history about them.

In addition to this you could add another tier of items where you would need two or three unique items as components. Losing one of these could always generate a very labour intensive quest. This way the items would increase the need of cooperation between players, and there would be more reasons to go to war, as pretty much anyone could go after the lost item.

"You hear some rumors about the Precious Sword of Frogslaying that was lost by Sir Kepler in a battle fought in Keplerstan. The rumor has it that the sailors at the Port Evilstan might know something more about the item."

"Yes, the Precious Sword of Frogslaying! I have heard of it. Bring me a piece of quartz and a small ruby and we will talk more."

"I am afraid the item was last seen and lost in the region of Impassable Mountains. You should search there."

"Upon searching the region you come across a large group of very vicious looking monsters. You see that their leader carries the Precious Sword of Frogslaying. It would be very difficult to engage the group on your own. Do you want to try or look for assistance?"

And so on...

[Tom]

I maintain my position that there is a vocal minority complaining here, and the vast majority of players thinks different. Why else would 50 gold still be a standard price for unique items? You can buy a small unit from that.

[Draco Tanos]

Truthfully Tom?  I've had a few items.  Not sure if I've ever paid over 20 gold for them.  I -think- I once paid 50, but only because I planned on the item to be a gift for someone else.  Honestly though, they're too much work to bother with.

I have my priests trying to convince advies to sell the items to the Church, but mainly because we see them as either potential relics or possibly magical items that can be a danger to humanity and must be kept secure.

[Gustav Kuriga]

that are the vast majority of players just don't answer on the forums, Tom. I'm going to ask that all the players in my realms go to the forums and say what they think about Unique Items. We'll see just what the answer is then.

[Sypher]

Is 50 gold even actually an average price being paid? I would expect it to vary a lot between islands and even from realm to realm.

I have never paid that much for a unique item and with my one character I thought I was being very generous when paying 25 gold for one item, mostly because I wanted to make sure the advy kept selling me items. (I've purchased 5 items from the same advy.) The rest of the time I've paid closer to 5-20 gold depending on the quality of what is being offered.

[De-Legro]

that are the vast majority of players just don't answer on the forums, Tom. I'm going to ask that all the players in my realms go to the forums and say what they think about Unique Items. We'll see just what the answer is then.

Yes, that is what he is saying, that the forums are a minority. So to get a better picture of what is going on he ran some statistics on the server to see how items are being sold/maintained etc.

So there is a concern that if unique items were not destroyed, new items would not be introduced and the repertoire of items would at the end become stale, and adventurers would not be able to bring in new items.

All of the above can be solved while still holding on to somewhat permanent items.

You could remove item decay entirely but instead increase chances of them being lost in battles, especially if you are wounded (and you could introduce other ways you could lose them). As the item is lost, a "quest" of sorts is created. The quests would be mostly done by the adventurers. They could have elements such as searching areas, finding certain components, gathering rumors about the artifact, traveling to distant places etc.

Let's assume an island would have around 100 items in use on the average. If there were 0 items in use, the quests would be very easy, and the items would generally be also randomly found very easily.  But with 100 items the quests would get progressively more difficult. New items could be introduced still by the adventurers, but once lost, they would also be very difficult (or at least time consuming) to find again. This would mean that very important items with plentiful of lore would be sought sparing not coin nor effort, but the less important ones would not be worth the trouble, and would eventually be forgotten entirely and then after some time deleted. But as long as the game would detect signs of someone still tracking the item, it would be "alive".

So then the items that people generally did not care about very much would be lost and eventually deleted, but those that truly are very important would not vanish, but would instead have more history about them.

In addition to this you could add another tier of items where you would need two or three unique items as components. Losing one of these could always generate a very labour intensive quest. This way the items would increase the need of cooperation between players, and there would be more reasons to go to war, as pretty much anyone could go after the lost item.

"You hear some rumors about the Precious Sword of Frogslaying that was lost by Sir Kepler in a battle fought in Keplerstan. The rumor has it that the sailors at the Port Evilstan might know something more about the item."

"Yes, the Precious Sword of Frogslaying! I have heard of it. Bring me a piece of quartz and a small ruby and we will talk more."

"I am afraid the item was last seen and lost in the region of Impassable Mountains. You should search there."

"Upon searching the region you come across a large group of very vicious looking monsters. You see that their leader carries the Precious Sword of Frogslaying. It would be very difficult to engage the group on your own. Do you want to try or look for assistance?"

And so on...

I quite like this

[Arrakis]

On one hand having precious and well known items being destroyed because you didn't repair them is lame. On the other hand completely disallowing the making of new ones is also not that great. So, the middle ground should be to have certain items that achieve certain value (for example, +7 prestige) become immortal and everlasting  8). They don't decay anymore or need repairs. They become legendary. In the meantime the advies should still be able to find new items and repair those. Break the system in two...minor artifacts and legendary artifacts and everyone remains happy: then nobles who are tied to their items, and the advies who still get to find/make new ones.

[Indirik]

Why else would 50 gold still be a standard price for unique items? You can buy a small unit from that.

My characters would pay 50 gold for an item. Not because they want it, but because I would be helping out another player. And really, with as much gold as most of my characters are carrying, 50 gold is lost in the rounding.

[Thunthorn]

50 gold is actually a bit low in my experience. I have used the rule of thumb (1 + prestige)*25 when buying items so a prestige 3 item I would pay 100 for. This may be high though. The game system encourages this as if you don't have adventurers dragging around huge bags of gold they will never be able to improve items with sages as this can cost as much as 75 gold, and it is in the realms interest to have well equipped adventurers.

I am mostly buying items to support the work adventurers do in the realm as stated before.  Somehow my first experience with selling items might have set the standard when I rfecieved 100 gold each for two minor items.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I enjoy having an item and searching for them etc. Do not like how fast they degrade, they should not degrade while with an advy. If they degrade they should be lost. I usually pay 50 to a 100 gold per item, jut because I am an awesome awesome... 8)

[vonGenf]

So, the middle ground should be to have certain items that achieve certain value (for example, +7 prestige) become immortal and everlasting  8). They don't decay anymore or need repairs. They become legendary.

Yes, I think quite a lot of people have proposed something similar. The problem is not that we don't like Unique Items, as Tom said they do get sold frequently, so people must want them. But we would want them so much more if they lasted longer!

You could add Legendary Items to the game without changing anything to 95% of Unique Items. They would still work as they do now.

[fodder]

Is 50 gold even actually an average price being paid? I would expect it to vary a lot between islands and even from realm to realm.

when i played double advies in ec.. i sold a boat load for 50 each if in very good condition. that was quite a while back

most of them from killing... a few from old sages

[De-Legro]

On one hand having precious and well known items being destroyed because you didn't repair them is lame. On the other hand completely disallowing the making of new ones is also not that great. So, the middle ground should be to have certain items that achieve certain value (for example, +7 prestige) become immortal and everlasting  8). They don't decay anymore or need repairs. They become legendary. In the meantime the advies should still be able to find new items and repair those. Break the system in two...minor artifacts and legendary artifacts and everyone remains happy: then nobles who are tied to their items, and the advies who still get to find/make new ones.

Given time, the item limit would be reached with these permanent items though.

I enjoy having an item and searching for them etc. Do not like how fast they degrade, they should not degrade while with an advy. If they degrade they should be lost. I usually pay 50 to a 100 gold per item, jut because I am an awesome awesome... 8)

If items don't degrade while in the hands of an advy, people would have advy mules follow them around holding on to their items, and just take them back for important battles or whatever. If the items are only lost, well then the item limit will mean no new items are created for that island. Unless you want to clog the database storing the names and stats of 100's of items that could be found on every island but restrict it to 100 active items at a time.

[vonGenf]

Given time, the item limit would be reached with these permanent items though.

Put a separate cap: max 100 Unique per island, max 5 Legendary per island.

[De-Legro]

Put a separate cap: max 100 Unique per island, max 5 Legendary per island.

So no one will want the normal uniques, and we end up with 5 vanity items that people make every effort to never part with, which is exactly what the whole needing repair system was designed to counter. I love the idea of truly legendary items, I just don't see how it would work when they represent exactly what the system was designed to avoid.