Offtopic

[Gustav Kuriga]

The first sign of trolling, when people start using meme pictures to support their argument.

[Lavigna]

The luck of humor,when people make statements like yours Gustav Kuriga.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I have a sense of humor, just not when someone's trying to support their laughable argument with meme pictures.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

I have a sense of humor, just not when someone's trying to support their laughable argument with meme pictures.

You speak a lot about arguments, law fun etc but I don't think you know the meaning of these words.

It seems like most of the Magistrates try to play judges and lawyers right now.

[Geronus]

It seems like most of the Magistrates try to play judges and lawyers right now.

Why do you think this board is called "The Courthouse"?

[Gustav Kuriga]

You speak a lot about arguments, law fun etc but I don't think you know the meaning of these words.

It seems like most of the Magistrates try to play judges and lawyers right now.

I do believe they were put in place to judge whether a case has broken the social contract or not. So that they should play the part of judges is rather appropriate, I think. Unless you feel that we should just consider their verdicts as "suggestions"

[Lavigna]

I have a sense of humor, just not when someone's trying to support their laughable argument with meme pictures.

I don't find insulting the fact that you cheerfully added the word "laughable" in there.Apparently others believed so and this is why now i have to make an appeal.I m just letting you know that.

Now as far as it concerns memes and calling it trolling as well , i will add that it also indicates you have no idea what trolling is in the first place and of course that you just don't like internet viral humor that memes are.

I have nothing more to add here so this will also be my last comment. I will discuss this with Tom because i feel it has to change,if he rejects my appeal then end of story.
I find it normal that some people disagree but i also find difficult to understand how you want such poor verdicts as precedent  in a case like ooc harassement.
I also know that you couldn't care less i am saying i witnessed when i was in Swordfell some serious ooc harass from all parts and in different levels but i did so you can't call my argument weak, laughable, inexistent but for me is more important to support the things i know for facts even if i don't have evidence.

That's about it.

[Geronus]

I don't find insulting the fact that you cheerfully added the word "laughable" in there.Apparently others believed so and this is why now i have to make an appeal.I m just letting you know that.

Now as far as it concerns memes and calling it trolling as well , i will add that it also indicates you have no idea what trolling is in the first place and of course that you just don't like internet viral humor that memes are.

I have nothing more to add here so this will also be my last comment. I will discuss this with Tom because i feel it has to change,if he rejects my appeal then end of story.
I find it normal that some people disagree but i also find difficult to understand how you want such poor verdicts as precedent  in a case like ooc harassement.
I also know that you couldn't care less i am saying i witnessed when i was in Swordfell some serious ooc harass from all parts and in different levels but i did so you can't call my argument weak, laughable, inexistent but for me is more important to support the things i know for facts even if i don't have evidence.

That's about it.

The reason I have so far not been moved by your arguments is that you (and everyone else arguing against this verdict) have so far completely failed to answer this simple question:

Why should we in effect rule that is OK to tell another player to go !@#$ himself?

My answer is:

We shouldn't. It is never OK to tell another player to go !@#$ himself.

How that very simple statement of principle became so controversial in this case is mind-boggling to me. If you want me to change my mind, come up with an argument that will make me reconsider that statement. Good luck.

[Miriam Ics]

Geronus, what is wrong in what Lavigna and I said? If this is going to be used as a precedent, I think is just right to see if there is no flaw on it.

[Miriam Ics]

Hum, ok, It is never OK to tell another player to go !@#$ himself. But, and all other cases?
What I am asking is to see all cases together, under other perspective, trying to find flaws on all cases because those were the reason this last one occur. And not asking to change the verdict. Its done its done, I accept it, but if you affirm this will be used as precedent than I am worried.

I understand - and agree - when you say this verdict is right. If there where no other cases, if there where no antecedents, I wouldn't say anything. But it is not the case. The other cases had important significance in this verdict. Or not?

[Lavigna]

I am not saying it's ok to tell people to go !@#$ themselves. for the love of god i think you ppl are playing around my words.

I am saying that maybe you didn't invest the time to see what made him say that.

When a murder occures no one searches just for the killer, they also search for the motives and they also search if the whole murder was actually provoked and an innocent got framed("agent provocateurs" do exist out there and guess what as noble as their cause may be ,if they are the main reason the "crime" occured then they are the aggressors)
I believe this is the case because i am trying to see all 3 case as 1. Maybe Shizzle had no idea as he says, but what about all those who knew Kyle and continuously harassed him, those must be found and punished.

If i am called an !@#$%^& , a jerk etc for a month, tried to drag attention of others on the matter and got ignored or just schooled through a Titan message and one signle person provoked me on something i m trying to say for fun on fb, i would  blow. I am trying to see if this is the case.

I am sure there is a way to find messages from Swordfell and if Kyle doesn't want to share them, well i do.

The verdict is great but  was it sent to all those who deserve it? No.

[Indirik]

Lavigna, if you can, provide some evidence. *any* evidence. Bring in some other people to provide evidence. Provide something to show that there was a concerted campaign to harass Kyle. Please. Don't just continually restate that you think there was. *prove* it. I know that many people would be willing to believe you if there were some evidence, from anyone, to back up that claim.

[Dishman]

Evidence>character witness>3rd party rumor. I can't access my Swordfell messages from the 'time in question', but agree that if they are relevant that the magistrates should re-open the Swordfell case (since it was hi-jacked by the Titans for something irrelevant). I never saw anything but an escalation of two character rivalries becoming two player rivalries, but my viewpoint is worth !@#$-all.

My personal opinion is that a single 'FU' and "QQ" statement shouldn't be that much of a big deal. Repeated attempts for harassment should be met with an ignore, repeat offenders should be brought to the magistrates. The recent case that involved Facebook is a bit of an outlier, but it is still the responsibility of every player to avoid escalating things. Both parties have decided to disconnect themselves from the case, so now it seems like we are arguing over legal doctrine rather than Woelfy vs Shizzle.

As to Lavigna, for a magistrate to 'abstain', I do find it unsettling that you would appeal the verdict after the fact. I understand you have a personal investment and feel the previous verdict wasn't right, but to abstain and then appeal seems....strange. It would have been better to abstain and immediately lay your cards out (evidence). Not to say the evidence may not be worth a look, but that you chose the wrong time to present it.

[Velax]

Keep it civil, people. Don't make me lock this thread.

[Geronus]

I am not saying it's ok to tell people to go !@#$ themselves. for the love of god i think you ppl are playing around my words.

I am saying that maybe you didn't invest the time to see what made him say that.

When a murder occures no one searches just for the killer, they also search for the motives and they also search if the whole murder was actually provoked and an innocent got framed("agent provocateurs" do exist out there and guess what as noble as their cause may be ,if they are the main reason the "crime" occured then they are the aggressors)
I believe this is the case because i am trying to see all 3 case as 1. Maybe Shizzle had no idea as he says, but what about all those who knew Kyle and continuously harassed him, those must be found and punished.

If i am called an !@#$%^& , a jerk etc for a month, tried to drag attention of others on the matter and got ignored or just schooled through a Titan message and one signle person provoked me on something i m trying to say for fun on fb, i would  blow. I am trying to see if this is the case.

I am sure there is a way to find messages from Swordfell and if Kyle doesn't want to share them, well i do.

The verdict is great but  was it sent to all those who deserve it? No.

I wasn't trying to twist your words. I was trying to illustrate my own point of view, which is that if we ruled Not Guilty in this case, we would in effect be saying that there is some set of circumstances out there that renders it OK to tell another player to go !@#$ himself. That is how I see it, and that is a big part of why I am resistant to your arguments thus far.

Look, I'm with Indirik on this one. How many times did I ask Kyle to bring us some evidence? How many times have I said I would be more than happy to punish anyone who was proven to have been harassing him? Please bring me some evidence. I want to make an example here. There is no place in this community for sustained bullying or harassment. None. And if ever a case of such is brought before us, I will be leading the charge to impose the most serious punishment that can be devised.