Way harder then this ought to be

[pcw27]

Uh, what?

I fail to see where the process is the least bit complicated. You click the link, you select a region to form a new duchy, you click submit. How could it possibly be any easier?

Like I said, its simple if you're happy making any possible available person duke. Most people aren't happy with that. Most at the very least want to promote a current regin lord to Duke, which leaves you waiting for them to hand over all their estates ect, and even that isn't a big deal in itself. If you're the ruler and current duke of a different region, and you want to become duke of a newly conquered region, it gets really messy, and the way you do it is completely counterintuitive. I've experienced this first hand.

[vonGenf]

Like I said, its simple if you're happy making any possible available person duke. Most people aren't happy with that. Most at the very least want to promote a current regin lord to Duke, which leaves you waiting for them to hand over all their estates ect, and even that isn't a big deal in itself. If you're the ruler and current duke of a different region, and you want to become duke of a newly conquered region, it gets really messy, and the way you do it is completely counterintuitive. I've experienced this first hand.

That's what I was trying to get at when I said you should think in terms of Dukes, not of Duchies.

You were already a Duke. There is no sense in which you have "changed duchy". Your place in the hierarchy is exactly the same as it was.

What happened is that you were before a Duke and Lord of Gaston, and now you are a Duke and Lord of Darfix. You have only changed your region.

It is the other people below you who have changed their allegiance. Allegiance should be a personal thing. You swear allegiance to a Duke, not to a city or townsland.

[Indirik]

Like I said, its simple if you're happy making any possible available person duke. Most people aren't happy with that. Most at the very least want to promote a current regin lord to Duke, which leaves you waiting for them to hand over all their estates ect, and even that isn't a big deal in itself.

I have no idea what you're talking about with this. The current system does not allow you to "make any possible available person duke". There is a very well-defined list list of nobles that you can promote to duke of an exisiting duchy. And another well-defined list of people that you can promote to create a new duchy. And this is all documented in-game on the pages where you perform these actions.

If you're the ruler and current duke of a different region, and you want to become duke of a newly conquered region, it gets really messy, and the way you do it is completely counterintuitive. I've experienced this first hand.

You have some conceptual errors here that are causing some major confusion. Or you're using the wrong terminology, which is also causing some major confusion.

There is no such things as a "duke of a region". Dukes rule duchies, not regions.

If a combo ruler/duke/lord of a single-duchy realm wants to become the lord of a newly conquered region, it is a simple process vacating your estate (if you have one), stepping down as lord of one region, and appointing himself as lord of the new region. From what I understand, you managed to do that just fine.

The problems all started when you wanted to create a new duchy. From that point on, it was just an unfortunate series of mistakes and misunderstandings. If you had just stopped, read the instructions, and asked for help, I think we could have saved you just about all of the troubles you ran into, and you wouldn't have *four* duchies instead of the two you wanted. There was no reason to hurry and get this done right now. No harm in leaving a lordship vacant for a day, or waiting another day to create a duchy.

[Tom]

Most at the very least want to promote a current regin lord to Duke, which leaves you waiting for them to hand over all their estates ect,

Eh, what?

Promoting a current region lord to duke is exactly what the button does. There's absolutely no need for anyone to hand over any estates or anything.

If you want to promote someone who is not currently a region lord, it gets a bit more complicated, because you need to make them a region lord first. If you want to form a duchy from region A but have the current lord of region B become the duke then you need to switch around regions first, yes. But if you understand the system - that a duchy is created by promoting a region lord - then all that is totally obvious.

[Foundation]

Okay.  This discussion is continuing in circles and responses are just repetitions of what's been said many times before.

The conclusion is that this subject is well documented as is.

[pcw27]

Eh, what?

Promoting a current region lord to duke is exactly what the button does. There's absolutely no need for anyone to hand over any estates or anything.

If you want to promote someone who is not currently a region lord, it gets a bit more complicated, because you need to make them a region lord first. If you want to form a duchy from region A but have the current lord of region B become the duke then you need to switch around regions first, yes. But if you understand the system - that a duchy is created by promoting a region lord - then all that is totally obvious.

Let me reiterate.

Here's the scenario:

You're realm has just conquered a new city. You want to make this city the basis of a duchy. The city has no lord present since you just conquered it. You can only appoint a lord to this city if they have no other obligations to other regions or estates. Thus if you want someone from another region not part of the intended new duchy to become the new duke, they must step down from all their previous regions, estates ect then you can promote them, then you can make them lord of the region, then you can make the region a new duchy.

The summarized step by step is

-conquer city
-ask desired lord to step down from previous titles so he can be promoted
-make lord marquis of that city
-form city as new duchy making the marquis duke automatically

That's a four step process, requiring cooperation between two players which must be completed in exact order. It is not "click and they become duke".

(which btw would create more problems if you wanted to name one person marquis of the city and a completely different person duke of the duchy)

Now if I'm the ruler and I want to take the new duchy for myself, and I was duke of the previous capital city the process is:

-conquer city
-step down from previous city
-install yourself as lord of new city
-have a lord step down from previous titles claims ect so you can promote him to marquis of previous city.
-rename original duchy to the name you want the new duchy to be
-create new duchy based in previous capital city under the name of the old duchy for the sake of continuity
-wait for ever last region lord to change allegiance back to the old duchy.

This is a 7 step process requiring cooperation between every lord in the current realm. It is not a remotely intuitive way to form new duchies. It is not "click and it becomes a new duchy"

There's really nothing further I can say to make this more clear then it already is.

[Foundation]

That's a four step process, requiring cooperation between two players which must be completed in exact order. It is not "click and they become duke".

(which btw would create more problems if you wanted to name one person marquis of the city and a completely different person duke of the duchy)

This is a 7 step process requiring cooperation between every lord in the current realm. It is not a remotely intuitive way to form new duchies. It is not "click and it becomes a new duchy"

These should never be a "click and change" scenario.  Read that "BattleMaster is a team-oriented browsergame merging strategy and roleplaying".

This is not a single player game where you can change the entire world at your whim.  It should be hard to change the entire structure of your realm.

[pcw27]

These should never be a "click and change" scenario.  Read that "BattleMaster is a team-oriented browsergame merging strategy and roleplaying".

This is not a single player game where you can change the entire world at your whim.  It should be hard to change the entire structure of your realm.

If there's anything that has you restructuring the realm on a whim its the current system. That's what I've had to pretty much do. Every single region in my realm is now a part of the new duchy. I wanted to simply create one new duchy and leave the whole rest of it alone. The simple stipulation that I wanted to run that duchy instead of the old one created a massive mess. I don't think any player in my realm is going to think that having to switch duchies adds strategy, roleplay and fun. They're going to think it's an added hassel caused by an awkward system.

Furthermore the challenge behind restructuring a realm should be political not mechanical.

[egamma]

The problem, as I see it, is that you want to control all the gold and political power in your realm. Fair summary?

[De-Legro]

If there's anything that has you restructuring the realm on a whim its the current system. That's what I've had to pretty much do. Every single region in my realm is now a part of the new duchy. I wanted to simply create one new duchy and leave the whole rest of it alone. The simple stipulation that I wanted to run that duchy instead of the old one created a massive mess. I don't think any player in my realm is going to think that having to switch duchies adds strategy, roleplay and fun. They're going to think it's an added hassel caused by an awkward system.

Furthermore the challenge behind restructuring a realm should be political not mechanical.

Okay part of the problem here is your understanding about Duchies. Past the initial set up, the "city" of the Duchy doesn't matter, in fact I'm pretty sure the Database doesn't even STORE which city was the "basis" of the Duchy.

The main issue was you couldn't declare yourself Duke of a new Duchy, since you were already a Duke, yet as Ruler you couldn't give up being Duke as then you could no longer be Lord of Darfix.

So the question, once you strip away all the nonsense is, do we really need to have the code automatically appoint the region Lord to be Duke, or could we allow the Ruler to select the new Duke just like they would if an existing Duchy lost the Duke.

[JPierreD]

I don't think any player in my realm is going to think that having to switch duchies adds strategy, roleplay and fun. They're going to think it's an added hassel caused by an awkward system.

And do you? Because it is precisely what you wanted to have done by yourself. The point is now they have the option to cooperate with you or not.

[pcw27]

And do you? Because it is precisely what you wanted to have done by yourself. The point is now they have the option to cooperate with you or not.

Actually they didn't have the option. The system automatically made them part of the new duchy. They had no choice, now they can choose to change back.

Anyway I added two scenarios to the wiki explaining how to accomplish duchy formations under certain circumstances that might make them more complicated. They're on the "duchy" page.

With that said I'm about done here. Please be on the lookout for a message from the player of "Jonas" in the help section asking how to dissolve a duchy.

[fodder]

look.. he's just completely confused about things.

his duchy already contained darfix upon capture, no?

he basically just wanted to switch his lordship from gaston to darfix, then make Aram lord of gaston and make gaston its own duchy and went about it in a totally wrong way.

the way to do it.. is to vacate his estate and lordship of gaston and plonk himself down as lord of darfix.. then rename the duchy to whatever. then appoint aram as lord of gaston and create a duchy out of that.

[pcw27]

the way to do it.. is to vacate his estate and lordship of gaston and plonk himself down as lord of darfix.. then rename the duchy to whatever. then appoint aram as lord of gaston and create a duchy out of that.

Yup, did that, and added that to the wiki as it will probably come up as a problem for other players.

[fodder]

removed it. what you described isn't splitting a duchy but a ruler+duke+lord getting another plot of land for himself..

splitting a duchy doesn't exist per se. an act of creating a new duchy is by itself "splitting" a duchy. lords then decide who to follow once a duchy is created.