Author Topic: The War of the Hearth Right  (Read 70069 times)

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #105: August 16, 2012, 09:43:21 PM »
It was role-played out, and then Arundel deleted Caspius. There were no game mechanics involved.

Norrel

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 841
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #106: August 17, 2012, 12:24:49 AM »
I find the lack of furious outrage as a result to be quite the let down, truth be told. I joined Sorraine specifically because of the Church and how it was advertised to be a religion-first, realm-second type of deal, but to be honest all of the dramatic conflict so far has been between the Church and the realm, not between the Church and other churches and it seems like at least half of the Church would rather make nice with other religions than play hardball. Some people are actually blaming Caspius for Theuderik's death...

Thing is, we're still having a holy war, just that the person responsible for it happened to get punished (unfortunately). But nobody's trying to play nice - we're going to fight it out. What's more, I do think that the CoS is the most like what you describe on the continent and maybe even in the whole game world, maybe second to the church of humanity and my own religion which is still ramping up.
“it was never wise for a ruler to eschew the trappings of power, for power itself flows in no small measure from such trappings.”
- George R.R. Martin ; Melisandre

Arundel

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #107: August 17, 2012, 01:54:21 PM »
I think to anyone outside the highest circles of the Church or realm, it all came as a very sudden explosion. It was literally almost over by the time I actually caught up with all the letters and had a chance to start responding to events. I mean, I knew that there had been tension between Selene and Caspius, but they seemed to be getting along fine recently until this blew up all over everyone.

As for Theuderik, it shouldn't matter if his character was well known or not. A priest was murdered, at his own altar, in an extremely brutal fashion and his body was defiled. Holy War or not, that is a marked escalation. I find the lack of furious outrage as a result to be quite the let down, truth be told. I joined Sorraine specifically because of the Church and how it was advertised to be a religion-first, realm-second type of deal, but to be honest all of the dramatic conflict so far has been between the Church and the realm, not between the Church and other churches and it seems like at least half of the Church would rather make nice with other religions than play hardball. Some people are actually blaming Caspius for Theuderik's death...

I wanted to address this letter as an address to all the other ones speculating (I've not been checking forums for... 24 hours.)

Hokay, so! Big message time! I'll split this into two sections: the first as a reply to the quote, the second to everyone else.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Selene and Caspius were "seemingly" getting along, but were truthfully bottling emotions as to their respective actions. Selene's authority was represented through Azgath and Aeneas, the later being the largest thorn in Caspius' ass. The more angry and zealous Caspius got, the more Aeneas preached of temperance, peace, and tolerance/Ibladeshi power. Selene would usually step in and side 75% for Aeneas, and 25% compromise with Caspius. So as arguments continuously repeated this cycle, Caspius and Selene were growing weary of one another. This is of course biased, but generally how I felt as a player integrating into Caspius' character.

From there, Caspius changed the standings of OoE and Way of the Dragon to evil on his own prerogative, stating at the end "I have an order of Inquisitors at my disposal, let me use them!", and Selene accepted them and said "yeah, lets do that to defend ourselves." So, as the leader of the sooper sekret order (that made me lol pretty hard, Indirik,) Caspius ordered the burnings, thinking later that they were state sanctioned. Then everything went to hell; apparently, no one liked that.

To address the religion-first, realm-second ideal, that was my overall goal as a player and character; I've argued constantly on the side of religious wars, religious competition, religious authority, and religious intolerance on a continent-wide scale. Heck! My motto below this post is one of your quotes surrounding that very topic! But from what I saw in a good portion of the elder and full member base, it seemed we were throwing away the whole "we preach to the god of war" thing, taking up the "lets be pansies like everyone else" instead. I took it upon myself to stir things up and bring back a piece of our identity :).

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

To the several other post concerning the "planned" feel, most of you are wrong. Everything up to Caspius' public letter to the Church of Sartan, outlining the charge of heresy against him by Selene, was completely spontaneous and unplanned. From there, Selene's player and I talked OOCly about the general direction we were going to take, which was "Caspius is going to die." Everything after that I strummed up on my own. Caspius intended to have Mathilda take the throne because she was the one who BURNED the temples down. He had hopes that she'd live up to his legacy and keep stirring up religious strife, since he was boned by Selene in every way imaginable. It was simply miraculous that Selene also wanted Mathilda on the throne. (Lots of private messages, if you want them posted, I can add them to that page that was linked (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Arundel_Family/Caspius/The_Day_Sorraine_Stood_Still)) Also, Caspius felt like he had no reason to live any longer. He felt Sartan beckon him to his death, and after his excommunication, that was pretty much sealed and done.

Selene's player shared some ideas around what he was going to do, but I didn't really tell him how I'd react. He wanted to auto da fe, but I was a priest so it didn't work. He then tried to brand me a traitor in the realm through a call for rebellion, and I responded (without any OOC notification) by exiling her. When I play the game, I assume the role of my character in a very personal way. I try to feel the feelings they would feel, and stick to the character. So Caspius felt OUTRAGED, and I reacted accordingly, regardless of any planning.

About Arke! Well, to those who payed attention to her intro letters in Sorraine, a strong image of rivalry and childhood hatred was displayed between her and Caspius. Arke disliked him a lot, and Caspius hated her even, but the latter respected the conduct of family, while the former continued to insult him. So I had that develop into a more dramatic intensity in order to highlight some key points around Arke's character (since she'll now be my FEI character.) Though I agree it was a very "that escalated quickly" moment, it was nevertheless essential to the plot I had in mind. Caspius NEEDED to die. That was my overall goal when this all started. He was going to keep on talking with Mathilda if Arke wasn't there, having himself offered a life on the Dark Isle even, and I told myself "Okay, so if Mathilda decides to kill me now, we'll run with that. If she keeps talking and pressing for his exile, Arke's gonna kill him." then boom, Arke killed him.

Yes, Arke was intended for BT (To help Norrel out with his religion, since I contributed,) but Norrel's character f*cked that up ICly by William ordering the inquisitors to kill him. So I had her stay after a long moment of hesitation on the matter (I also had a lot of ideas I wanted to add to the CoS theology that I found lacking, but Caspius WAS NOT the character for the job,) leading to the quick escalation. I felt it the only way to keep playing on FEI with proper cannon, instead of plopping a new character in and simply saying "Oh hey guys!" I'm also sorry for those who found it confusing; I didn't expect it progress so rapidly - everybody was online at the same time, incredibly - and it was tremendously difficult to keep track of everything as we went along. I tried sharing what was necessary between Sorraine and the Church of Sartan, but by the time... I had actual time to do it.... there was too much to share.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Okay, done. Bedtime.... after I check battlemaster again.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 01:56:59 PM by Arundel »
The adherents of different religions in a realm should compete for power, influence, and fresh converts. They don't even have to be killing each other to do so. I wish people promoted the prosperity of their religions the same way they promoted the growth and prosperity of their realms. - Geronus

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #108: August 17, 2012, 02:15:33 PM »
To address the religion-first, realm-second ideal, that was my overall goal as a player and character; I've argued constantly on the side of religious wars, religious competition, religious authority, and religious intolerance on a continent-wide scale. Heck! My motto below this post is one of your quotes surrounding that very topic! But from what I saw in a good portion of the elder and full member base, it seemed we were throwing away the whole "we preach to the god of war" thing, taking up the "lets be pansies like everyone else" instead. I took it upon myself to stir things up and bring back a piece of our identity :).

Yes, well I heartily approved of everything Caspius did (though maybe not what he said). I thought it was great. I makes me sad that the rest of the Church seemed so ready to burn him at the stake for it  :(

What we need is an Allison Kabrinski... I would try, but I honestly don't think I have the requisite levels of ruthless cunning and demagoguery. Maybe I'll try anyway...

Lorgan

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1185
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #109: August 17, 2012, 02:19:38 PM »
Yes, well I heartily approved of everything Caspius did (though maybe not what he said). I thought it was great. I makes me sad that the rest of the Church seemed so ready to burn him at the stake for it  :(

The Church of Sartan is a bunch of wimps who prefer ponies and roses over blood and steel.

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #110: August 17, 2012, 02:25:45 PM »
The Church of Sartan is a bunch of wimps who prefer ponies and roses over blood and steel.

I agree, although Hermik is a bit on the crazy side... Gotta temper that zealotry with base cunning  8)

Velax

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2071
  • House de Vere
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #111: August 17, 2012, 03:02:00 PM »
Having some sort of crazy, blood-thirsty church that declares religious wars on everyone simply doesn't work. It alienates your allies and gets you crushed by your enemies when they band together to fight you.

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #112: August 17, 2012, 03:07:26 PM »
Yeah, that's true of any entity. It is, however, possible to be both smart and aggressive.

Indirik

  • Exalted Emperor
  • ******
  • Posts: 10849
  • No pressure, no diamonds.
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #113: August 17, 2012, 03:59:17 PM »
@Arundel: it was definitely an interesting turn of events. I'm not dissatisfied with the way things turned out. It just had this feel of "Things need to end up *here*, so what can we do to make that happen?" I.e you have the end of the story ready, and you need to write the middle so the desired end happens the way you want it. It's just a different philosophy than I go with, which is to start with a character, then react to what is happening, with no preconceptions of where I want things to go.

Anyway, it sounds like a lot of this stuff happened in the elders of CoS, so that explains why it seems so sudden, and out of nowhere. That probably contributes to the "planned" feel of it, too.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Fleugs

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 668
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #114: August 17, 2012, 07:34:19 PM »
A quick note on Theuderik;

I had run out having fun with him so I figured, with the "crusade" of the Order against the Church of Sartan, I might as well use him in a final RP that could possibly spark things up or at least shake some things around. It kinda got overshadowed by the entire Caspius-debacle but I think that in the long run people will remember. Okay, he wasn't a true priest of Sartan but he /was/ the former leader of the church of Ibladesh and many refugees, I hope, should not neglect this murder.

All in all it was just fun to RP this together with Stabbity. I also have his daughter being a lord in Arcaea to keep the "memory of the murder" alive if need be. It was a good way to get rid of a character that I didn't really want to play anymore, and basically was too old for average medieval standards (over 60 years, what? Magic!)
Ardet nec consumitur.

Draco Tanos

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1128
    • View Profile
    • Nova Roma
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #115: August 17, 2012, 09:08:15 PM »
Don't you worry, Arundel.  When the Church of Sartan is purged from this world perhaps the One True Church, the Church of Humanity, will rewrite history and proclaim the sainthood of Caspius! >.>

And yes, I take a very early Christian Church approach to moving into new territories.  Adopt and tweak what you can, ignore the rest. >.>

Arundel

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #116: August 18, 2012, 08:05:13 AM »
Don't you worry, Arundel.  When the Church of Sartan is purged from this world perhaps the One True Church, the Church of Humanity, will rewrite history and proclaim the sainthood of Caspius! >.>

And yes, I take a very early Christian Church approach to moving into new territories.  Adopt and tweak what you can, ignore the rest. >.>

I like the sound of that. I've got an Arundel spreading the CoH on BT! May the holy light guide your path, or smite your infidel ass :P.
The adherents of different religions in a realm should compete for power, influence, and fresh converts. They don't even have to be killing each other to do so. I wish people promoted the prosperity of their religions the same way they promoted the growth and prosperity of their realms. - Geronus

Draco Tanos

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 1128
    • View Profile
    • Nova Roma
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #117: August 18, 2012, 09:29:42 AM »
Damn Facebook.  Making me look for the "Like" button.

Antonine

  • Mighty Duke
  • ****
  • Posts: 542
  • Current family: Sussex. Old family: Octavius.
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #118: August 18, 2012, 11:18:22 PM »
Just to clarify, the reason everything kicked off between Caspius and Selene was because the elders had been discussing Thain's threat of a crusade, with a lot of people looking to avoid a war, when Caspius announced to the whole church that he was ignoring the elders and had made certain that a crusade would happen.

Selene then called him out on it within the elders for assuming authority which he didn't have and plunging the church into holy war without consulting with anyone and Caspius responded by taking it public within the church as a whole and calling Selene a weakling, etc, etc.

That's what led to Selene expelling him from the orders and he then tried to schism the church but messed up the mechanics by becoming a priest and then trying to leave the church rather than the other way round.

I then chatted OOCly with the player of Caspius and he was happy enough to RP as though Selene was excommunicating him (the game mechanics of him being a priest prevented her from actually excommunicating) and then Selene RP'd finding out about something Caspius did a long time ago where he massacred the Adgharists living in Ozrat - that was an RP Caspius did ages ago but the RP also included a cover up so Selene only found out about it from one of the soldiers who participated.

As murdering innocent people, especially children, is strictly forbidden by the Church, Selene then named him a heretic and called on the nobles of Sorraine to depose him. Then Caspius exiled her. Then Caspius got killed.

Arundel

  • Noble Lord
  • ***
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Sorraine
« Reply #119: August 19, 2012, 09:07:28 AM »
Just to clarify, the reason everything kicked off between Caspius and Selene was because the elders had been discussing Thain's threat of a crusade, with a lot of people looking to avoid a war, when Caspius announced to the whole church that he was ignoring the elders and had made certain that a crusade would happen.

Selene then called him out on it within the elders for assuming authority which he didn't have and plunging the church into holy war without consulting with anyone and Caspius responded by taking it public within the church as a whole and calling Selene a weakling, etc, etc.

That's what led to Selene expelling him from the orders and he then tried to schism the church but messed up the mechanics by becoming a priest and then trying to leave the church rather than the other way round.

I then chatted OOCly with the player of Caspius and he was happy enough to RP as though Selene was excommunicating him (the game mechanics of him being a priest prevented her from actually excommunicating) and then Selene RP'd finding out about something Caspius did a long time ago where he massacred the Adgharists living in Ozrat - that was an RP Caspius did ages ago but the RP also included a cover up so Selene only found out about it from one of the soldiers who participated.

As murdering innocent people, especially children, is strictly forbidden by the Church, Selene then named him a heretic and called on the nobles of Sorraine to depose him. Then Caspius exiled her. Then Caspius got killed.

This was a missing piece of the info I was too lazy to type. Thanks :).

But in all fairness, you implied heresy charges; that was not the way to approach Caspius in any way. Still true though, that I sabotaged the entire thing to spice up religious warfare.
The adherents of different religions in a realm should compete for power, influence, and fresh converts. They don't even have to be killing each other to do so. I wish people promoted the prosperity of their religions the same way they promoted the growth and prosperity of their realms. - Geronus