BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Beluaterra => Topic started by: Lorgan on March 19, 2013, 03:26:21 PM
-
So, I figured this war needed a topic and decided to throw in something extra. :)
The poll will keep running and you can always change your vote so it can serve as a barometer for the war.
I also figured this war needed a name, so there we go.
On the left: Thalmarkin, realm of ice and bear (and wolves and eagles, I haven't forgotten about you guys!) on the right: Melhed, realm of sun and wolf.
A short explanation for the war:
Duke Outo Olavi Cosula, heir to the throne of Ar Agyr has laid claim to Melhed's capital of Agyr. Thalmarkin, itself heir to Ar Agyr, has overwhelmingly supported their Duke and declared war on Melhed.
Letter from Fingolfin Noldorin
Message sent to the Rulers of Beluaterra (8 recipients)
Rulers of Beluaterra,
I write you concerning serious matters. Thalmarkin has lived on the top of the continent for a long time, and we have seen many wars and invasions come and pass, being at the very heart of them several times. We have lived side by side with neighbours who are our allies and friends, but also with those we could have done without. If history has taught us anything, it is that the world needs strong and powerfull realms ready to act and take measures when the need is dire. History has taught us also that Melhed is none of these.
Too long have they sat on the riches of their ancestors and let times of war and invasion pass by without moving a finger. They are not worthy of their ancestors legacy, and they are not fit to rule their lands. We have all seen this for a long time, and the last few months have merely been the tip of the mountain that has made us prepare for war.
Thalmarkin intend to recreate a realm of warriors, upon the ashes of their forefathers. Ar Agyr died when abandonded by its allies, but I plan to once more let the realm thrive upon the riches that has been put into no use since their death.
Upon these words, Thalmarkin declare war upon the realm of Melhed. We have no goal in its total destruction, merely teaching them what war really is and distributing some of their regions to make them usefull for the world once more. Melhed has already been on the verge of attacking us twice the last year or so but backed out. Now there is no backing out to be had any longer.
Regards,
Fingolfin Noldorin
King of Thalmarkin
Royal of Thalmarkin
Letter from Yeux Serpentis
Message sent to the Rulers of Beluaterra
Let's see what your "realm of warriors" can do, King Fingolfin. I'm sure I can teach you a lesson or two. Melhed will fight back theses bored thugs with honor to defend our borders. And be sure: if you began to lose, I will claim every region your realm received from our old glory until your friends of Old Grehk decide to save your people from the wolves. I don't care to burn Beluaterra to the ground to kick you back to the northern shores. Your claims for war is just to weak to be considered, then we will see what will happen in the battlefields.
Yeux Serpentis
King of Melhed
Royal of Melhed
Duke of Agyr
Priest of Bloodspeakers
And so it begins...
-
As grand son of half god Julma Jaune... why in the earth this is even discussed? Ofcourse Thalmarkin will win!
But this really should be intresting war... Unless other side for somereason fumbles hard or get theri spine snapped after initial spanking... first round went for Thalmarkin.
1-0
-
First up: battle in Lastfell. After a short staring competition between Thalmarkin in Tepmona and Melhed in Bil havil, Melhed attacked Lastfell, dispatching the militia there, Thalmarkin quickly set to the chase and dispatched them, while maintaining the TO in Tepmona.
-
It is hard to know.
It would be good if Melhed won, but as soon as Thalmarkin brings either OG or Sint to fight with them, Melhed is gone.
-
Why The War of Ice and Sun and not The war of Feather and Blood?
-
Why The War of Ice and Sun and not The war of Feather and Blood?
Because George R. R. Martin
-
It is hard to know.
I agree. Wealth and infrastructure on the one hand, nobles and tradition on the other. :)
And I'm really not kidding about that infrastructure thing... Melhed should know in what for a state we are after having sat in Lastfell for a day. And even if, we could never compete with them.
It would be good if Melhed won, but as soon as Thalmarkin brings either OG or Sint to fight with them, Melhed is gone.
Well, whether it's good if Melhed wins is quite debatable. ;)
Anyway, Thalmarkin has absolutely no desire to bring anyone into the war. This is a very personal war for us, it's a let out for all the frustrations that have built up over our alliance with Melhed for years and years without us being able to act on it. Now we finally can and we don't want anyone to ruin the moment.
Why The War of Ice and Sun and not The war of Feather and Blood?
Because religion may be an undertone of the war but it is not the reason. It's only one of the frustrations.
-
Well, whether it's good if Melhed wins is quite debatable. ;)
I believe it is good since it would change a little the dynamic of the north, with Melhed rising to the same status as OG, Thalmarkin and Sint.
Now we just need to wait for the OGxSint war
-
Because religion may be an undertone of the war but it is not the reason. It's only one of the frustrations.
It could definitely have gone the way of holy war, and Maya was champing at the bit to go that route, but the 'war of catharsis' is just as good a reason from a noble perspective. But poor poor peasants who must die by en masse for our designs. ;)
The Battle of Lastfell was pretty epic. Though it was a defeat for Melhed, we did do some damage and wound the Thal king!
-
Fingolfin breaks his hip going to get his mail; wounding him is no great feat. You did bring some pretty scary units though, and we got pretty lucky with your cavalry.
-
Time for Enzo to unpack his Battle Shorts and Goblet of Generalship (+2).
-
I'm glad that I immigrated from Talerium to Thalmarkin. Now this is a fun war!
-
Melhed will miss those RCs in Tepmona :)
-
What happened to Annaej? Last I checked she was in Thalmarkin... I don't see her on the BT char page anymore.
-
What happened to Annaej? Last I checked she was in Thalmarkin... I don't see her on the BT char page anymore.
Died in the invasion.
-
Died in the invasion.
Ah, yes.
-
Melhed will miss those RCs in Tepmona :)
I never much cared for them. But then I have always been an elitist as far as RCs goes.
-
Legionares Cohortes Nosferatus Special Forces 65 70 / 90
Triarri Melites Special Forces 60 95 / 80
Where I come from, these'd be considered pretty damn elite. :P
-
I did not say they were not used, I just had others I prefered over them.
-
I should get some gold for demolishing those centers ;)
Keep appointing me as a lord! I will destroy more centers!
-
I did not say they were not used, I just had others I prefered over them.
Oh, we haven't forgotten about Bisana.
-
I should get some gold for demolishing those centers ;)
Keep appointing me as a lord! I will destroy more centers!
You did. I wasn't just funding your overrecruiting. :)
-
Oh, we haven't forgotten about every region we enter.
Fixed it for you.
-
Been spending the last 2,5 days wounded, so not really up to date (except some frustrating letters I am able to see but not answer)... but seeing Bil Havil being taken was a nice surprise :)
I trust Melhed have a second card up their sleeve, otherways this war will be disappointingly short!
-
Post to news thread: King sleeps through entire war, wakes up to congratulate armies.
-
2 days ago:
I'm glad that I immigrated from Talerium to Thalmarkin. Now this is a fun war!
Today:
Nick Smith, the player of Bezumo Kuriga, has paused him for an indefinite period.
You are welcome, I guess.
-
Did my phone really do that? Crap... if I wanted to pause anyone it would be Henzo. *sighs* now I have to wait a week...
-
Haha. Only 3 days I think. :)
And thusly we get militia... :P
-
Yeah, I think Melhed is gonna get rolled. Our King is MIA...
-
Damn Bloodspeakers. They just kicked me out! DEATH TO ALL BLOODSPEAKERS!
-
Haha. Only 3 days I think. :)
And thusly we get militia... :P
*shrugs* at least you have militia. lol
-
the whole war came extremely untimely, have barley been able to login last week.
finally a cool moment for Melhed and i cant play!
-
the whole war came extremely untimely, have barley been able to login last week.
finally a cool moment for Melhed and i cant play!
At least you have the possibility of playing. Because of the fact that you can't unpause someone within an hour of pausing them in case of a mistake, I've got to wait a fricking week.
-
At least you have the possibility of playing. Because of the fact that you can't unpause someone within an hour of pausing them in case of a mistake, I've got to wait a fricking week.
Red will send Bezumo one of those "wish u were here" scribecards from Agyr.
-
At least you have the possibility of playing. Because of the fact that you can't unpause someone within an hour of pausing them in case of a mistake, I've got to wait a fricking week.
You only have to wait a day, maybe two.
-
You only have to wait a day, maybe two.
Oh, nonono. It's been at least 4 days by now. If not 5.
-
Oh, nonono. It's been at least 4 days by now. If not 5.
Have you tried to unpause the character lately? I was having the opposite problem where I was constantly unpausing a character I did not want unpaused. (Constantly being every other turn.)
-
Have you tried to unpause the character lately? I was having the opposite problem where I was constantly unpausing a character I did not want unpaused. (Constantly being every other turn.)
I've tried to unpause every day.
-
Did you vacation pause, or cold storage? I've seen people unpause after a turn or two, when using vacation pause.
-
Did you vacation pause, or cold storage? I've seen people unpause after a turn or two, when using vacation pause.
That's the thing, I have no clue. Somehow, some way, I paused my character while on the mobile site. I remember pressing the back button to on the first page where it asks if you want to pause this character, but it paused it anyway.
-
*sigh*
This is just one of those charming little edge cases that crop up from time to time.
I have manually tweaked it so that you should be able to unpause Bezumo whenever you are ready.
-
*sigh*
This is just one of those charming little edge cases that crop up from time to time.
I have manually tweaked it so that you should be able to unpause Bezumo whenever you are ready.
I found something interesting when I logged in as him... Apparently it was over a week ago (joy) and more interestingly, I managed to travel while I was paused.
Knight Pauses (7 days, 1 hour ago)
message to all nobles of Thalmarkin
Nick Smith, the player of Bezumo Kuriga, has paused him for an indefinite period.
Due to pausing, he loses the following:
His unit, "Desert Warriors", is set up as a local militia unit in Bil Havil.
He vacates his estate in Unger
Travel Report (5 days, 3 hours ago)
You find the route more difficult than you guessed, and will take one hour longer for the trip than planned.
Travel Report (4 days, 15 hours ago)
You find the route more difficult than you guessed, and will take one hour longer for the trip than planned.
Travel Report (3 days, 15 hours ago)
Carefully, you make your way through Lastfell, hoping not to be spotted. Enemy troops were spotted here, belonging to Melhed. You make a short stop in Lastfell before you continue your travel to Unger.
Travel Report (2 days, 15 hours ago)
You find a good route and make progress faster than assumed, saving one hour of travel time.
Travel Report (2 days, 3 hours ago)
You find a good route and make progress faster than assumed, saving one hour of travel time.
Travel Report (1 day, 15 hours ago)
You find a good route and make progress faster than assumed, saving one hour of travel time.
-
the whole war came extremely untimely, have barley been able to login last week.
finally a cool moment for Melhed and i cant play!
I'm not sure who it is "untimely" for, but I can believe it. Members of Melhed have been discussing war with Thalmarkin, on and off, for months. The same is true in Thalmarkin, of course. It escalated rather quickly, but I think the relationship between the two has always been at a near boil. Nothing to engender goodwill like being totally thankless for having a neighbor save your capital from the Daimons, and then coach you on how to do it. ;)
-
Gustav, the travel is what was stopping you from unpausing and is what Tim had to manually tweak to let you unpause. Your character needed to stop traveling in order to be unpaused.
-
Gustav, the travel is what was stopping you from unpausing and is what Tim had to manually tweak to let you unpause. Your character needed to stop traveling in order to be unpaused.
Ah, that is interesting.
-
Why The War of Ice and Sun and not The war of Feather and Blood?
oooo i like this one! There is really nothing sunny about Melhed
Or the War of Talon and Fang
-
If this war remains one-on-one it might prove to be a very interesting and long one. Currently, the war front is highly unforgiving and every single mistake is punishable. Furthermore, the space for maneuvering is very tight so any small holes that can occasionally be found are your best chance. It's intense and I like it.
If it remains one-on-one...for some reason I doubt that.
-
I hope it stays one on one. It's really been an interesting war so far, I believe we are currently stronger but it isn't easy to push the advantage, especially considering refitting doesn't hurt Melhed as much as it does us. All in all, I'd love to see where this goes. :)
-
I also hope it stay one-by-one.
-
second. #dontpigpilemyparty
-
I hope it stays one on one. It's really been an interesting war so far, I believe we are currently stronger but it isn't easy to push the advantage, especially considering refitting doesn't hurt Melhed as much as it does us. All in all, I'd love to see where this goes. :)
One on ones don't tend to last long after a clear advantage is achieved by either side, in most cases.
-
A good war takes time.
-
What Cassus Belli could the other realms raise to join in the war, and for which side would they do so? As I saw it, Thalmarkin only had the barest reason to do so. But we've heard rumors of Fronen prepping for a land grab.
-
As I saw it, Thalmarkin only had the barest reason to do so.
Man what island are you playing on? We had a variety of solid reasons to go to war even if our stated reason isn't satisfactory.
-
Hah, i just noticed most of Thalmarkins players posting only. Enjoying yourself huh?
It's quite sad to see though people are so afraid of losing nowadays that this game is now not as fun anymore. I had the same thing in Aurvandil and now in Thalmarkin-Melhed. Disappointing.
-
Hah, i just noticed most of Thalmarkins players posting only. Enjoying yourself huh?
Sure are. :)
It's quite sad to see though people are so afraid of losing nowadays that this game is now not as fun anymore. I had the same thing in Aurvandil and now in Thalmarkin-Melhed. Disappointing.
What are you talking about? Thalmarkin started this war before we even repaired our capital's walls, let stand all of the other infrastructure that still needs to be built in our emptied lands. We went to war with the absolute basic needs against a realm famous for it's unreal RCs and gold reserves. Sure we don't expect to lose but we sure didn't take every precaution we could against it. If we did... we'd have waited 5 more months and then brought the entire continent with us.
But we wanted war now and alone.
-
I am not talking about the war, infrastructures etc. I am talking about players that play this game. Look at how people moved away or migrated after war was declared. At least 5-6 nobles left Melhed. And the fact that all other realms are so afraid of getting on the wrong side of a war, shows how much they are afraid of losing. Look at how Fronen, Sint and even Nothoi. They won't get into a fight unless they are so sure allies are with them.
And YES, Thalmarkin will not get into this war if there's no OG support. Otherwise, Melhed would had fought Thals way before. And Thals knows that the other realms are to coward to join on Melhed - the underdog side.
Why i compare this with Aurvandil? Look at the amount of nobles there. All joined because of the power that they have. Because they are AFRAID of LOSING.
But don't bother me. I am just ranting. Have been doing it since Aurvandil... I was with Aurvandil though, until i had an exchange of OOC letters with them. Noticed how much they are afraid of losing.
-
Hah, i just noticed most of Thalmarkins players posting only. Enjoying yourself huh?
It's quite sad to see though people are so afraid of losing nowadays that this game is now not as fun anymore. I had the same thing in Aurvandil and now in Thalmarkin-Melhed. Disappointing.
I have to agree with you. I have a soft spot for the underdog so I'm really enjoying fighting on the side of Melhed in this war.
Lorgan, sorry, you're not getting any sympathy from me for Thalmarkin's 'unprepared' state. Look at the poll. It's pretty clear who has the advantage here. Doesn't mean the war won't be awesome. ;)
-
Don't get me wrong. I'm glad there is finally war for Melhed. I would had take it to war if the thals did not. I have the same soft spot for the underdog. The reason why I am still there.
The thing is, I don't see melhed winning this war. Because it they do, all the other realms will join in on thals side. The thals said they prefer 1vs1 now because they have the advantage. Let's see if they say the same thing when they are losing. There will be call for the other realms to join, I can assure you.
As a matter of fact, what fun is there in destroying melhed? It's destined from the start that melhed will not win this war. If I am on thals side, I would had stir something maybe against OG instead. Look at what Cathay is doing to Arcaea. Now that's fun...
-
I thought the people who left Melhed did so because of the rebellion.
In my experience, war brings in more people even and well especially if there's the possibility of losing. Just look at Darka.
And yes, Melhed would have fought us before if it wasn't for our allies, but then that was also when we had less than one third of our max pop and could just barely field 10k, let stand afford a refit. The invasion didn't only devastate us, it also bankrupted us.
I'd also like to argue that the nobles who have joined us came to us because we try to create an interesting environment in our realm and have been continuously working on that for years. It's not for nothing that we were the ones taunting Overlord during the entire invasion and are the first to say "screw recovery, we want war and we want it now" afterwards. Maybe we just bore more easily. Either way, we do our best to attract more nobles and it seems to work. Ever since the Fourth Invasion we have had more nobles than most of comparable or even much greater size and war indeed boosted those numbers again. But you can never have too much nobles as far as I'm concerned. Especially when you're trying to colonize your enemy's capital. :)
But anyway, I agree that fears of losing the game, or dreams of winning the game are utter and complete delusions. There's no winning or losing. If your realm dies, you go somewhere else and start over. That's sort of how I came to Thal in the first place (though it's a little more complicated :) ) and I sure don't regret it. You can always find new places to enjoy. But there's not even any realm's life hanging in the balance here. At least not from where I'm sitting. What's the fun in destroying realms anyway? We'd lose a neighbour with whom we've got years and years of history. Friendship and hostility. The perfect candidate to screw us over and stab us in the back one day and give us a reason to defeat them again. (Hypothetically of course, we're not quite there yet the first time. :) ) Or turn it into a sort of Sith Master-Apprentice relationship. Because when it comes down to it, this war is most of all about which one of us has the biggest cock. :)
-
Hah, i just noticed most of Thalmarkins players posting only. Enjoying yourself huh?
Do yourself a favor and go read through the Fifth Invasion thread. We were exactly as loud and proud when we were actively getting our !@#$ pushed in by the Overlord.
-
Lorgan, sorry, you're not getting any sympathy from me for Thalmarkin's 'unprepared' state. Look at the poll. It's pretty clear who has the advantage here. Doesn't mean the war won't be awesome. ;)
I'm not going for your sympathy. :) Just saying that if we feared losing, we could've gone into this way differently. But anyway, I think that at the moment this poll doesn't reflect the actual situation on the field. So far I've seen lots of even battles. And that's exactly why the war is awesome. :)
-
I'm not going for your sympathy. :) Just saying that if we feared losing, we could've gone into this way differently. But anyway, I think that at the moment this poll doesn't reflect the actual situation on the field. So far I've seen lots of even battles. And that's exactly why the war is awesome. :)
I am not aiming at people that are just out to have fun. Like i said previously, it was those that are afraid of losing that i hate. Jumping ships, bandwagoning etc. If there's a full scale continent war now, that would be fun isn't it? But because of fear of losing, they just stop short at throwing insults. Just like what Melhed was doing before the invasions. I am not discrediting you for creating a fun environment. But i am sure you know there are people that joined because it's "fun" in a winning way. Haha. Okay, enough of trying to get the point across. To war now. :p
-
You should try to get in our wagon gaming band :) (and I know the expression is wrong, but it just sound so good... :p)
We had fun, win or lose, just for the joy of the game. Of course, to win is amazing and we would like to win, but most of us, and I'm sure about that, like the excitement of finding new strategies and see how we are all committed to making the best of our kingdom.
When was the last time you saw a perfect movement from a army with one IG order? This is one thing we are proud of.
-
When was the last time you saw a perfect movement from a army with one IG order? This is one thing we are proud of.
They are all multis!!!!!!!!! Lock their accounts! :) (Just kidding of course)
-
Whats wrong with winning? It is not a shame to want to win! Its not a shame to afraid of losing... but it also not a shame to lose.
It is shame to be afraid of having fun!
-Jaune
-
When was the last time you saw a perfect movement from a army with one IG order? This is one thing we are proud of.
Ohnar West vs those nasty Sartans ;)
-
Since this is going to be a long, long war, I've started a page for it at wiki.
Anyone willing to help me?
-
I hope it stays one on one. It's really been an interesting war so far, I believe we are currently stronger but it isn't easy to push the advantage, especially considering refitting doesn't hurt Melhed as much as it does us. All in all, I'd love to see where this goes. :)
If you want it to remain one on one you need to actively work at keeping it one on one. OG was in Lloringel, I know it was only one unit, but he was involved.
As far as I am concerned his presence makes this war not one on one already. Keep telling yourselves that it is though...
-
If you want it to remain one on one you need to actively work at keeping it one on one. OG was in Lloringel, I know it was only one unit, but he was involved.
As far as I am concerned his presence makes this war not one on one already. Keep telling yourselves that it is though...
He's been neutral in all the battles he's observed. And he's sitting in your regions, you complain about it.
Do you think that we would have had to ask if we wanted help? The whole continent is war-starved. If no one has joined in yet, it's because we have been actively keeping them off.
-
Indeed. I have already denied 3 realms asking to join in the war, merely for keeping more fun in the war. If we acctually asked for help I doubt any less than 5 realms would be most eager to help. :) The wars is just half the game, while diplomacy is the rest... where Melhed has been quite unfortunate for a long time.
If you think the war is unfair I would suggest that you do something about rather than request us to do it. We are doing all we can already. You have the people to work with diplomacy and your case is not completly lost if you play your cards right. From what it seems though you have decided to become a bunker with all sticks pointing out, which will gain you nothing in the long run.
Concerning people being afraid of loosing... Melhed was very eager to start a war against Thalmarkin when we had literally no gold, almost no army and close to no proper RCs. Now the numbers are at least almost even, even though we have saved gold for 5 months rather than 5 years, while rebuilding our complete realm during this saving-period. Now that would have been a comfortable win indeed.
Im not sure how many people have left Melhed, but looking at the statistics it looks like 4-5 max. I know at least 2 of those leaving due to the revolution.
-
Thinking from the aspect of someone who plays in Melhed but is pretty clueless of foreign diplomacy performed by Yeux, I am slightly worried that there were so many who wanted to join on Thal's side and no one on Melhed's. I am pretty sure that if Melhed would somehow do the unthinkable and started to hurt Thal real bad, and even threaten to TO Unger, Thal's perception would probably change then as well, and no effort would then be made to actually stop these other realms from joining. I am pretty sure all these vultures that are waiting would come to the feast then.
This, without a doubt, puts Melhed in a no-way-to-win situation. We are like a caged gladiator of Beluaterra. You have joy in seeing us fight, but if we fight, win and try to escape, Beluaterra will cut us down. This...well, is not that great a position for Melhed. It offers short term fun for those who play in Melhed, but for those who may have long term plans and prospects, this probably isn't very attractive. Tis why so few new nobles joined Melhed, while Thal got an abundance.
-
Sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for Melhed here. That realm has built itself a really lousy reputation over the past few years: the realm that sits around and does nothing while their allies/realms near them/the entire continent are fighting for their lives—and then, when they finally decide to do something, half the time (at least) it's something completely contrary to what most people actually want them to do.
-
In Melhed, under the old regime, a group of characters agitated for war with Thalmarkin. They also largely aligned with the Bloodspeaker religion. After a rebellion, those people are now in charge. I know, IC and OOC, that these folks have been jonesing for war with Thal for awhile. To pretend otherwise is simply dishonest.
So, now that we've established the baseline, why should anyone in Melhed be surprised that Thalmarkin declared war? And why should they be surprised when the war escalates? Both realms signed a treaty effectively barring the influence of religion. And then Melhed's ruler attempts to overthrow two lords of Thalmarkin. Then they whine when Thalmarkin tears down their shrines.
All of this being indisputable, I'm kind of bemused. The forums are for the OOC analysis of IC events. IC propaganda has no place here.
-
If you want it to remain one on one you need to actively work at keeping it one on one. OG was in Lloringel, I know it was only one unit, but he was involved.
As far as I am concerned his presence makes this war not one on one already. Keep telling yourselves that it is though...
You might want to take note of the fact that OG is still at peace with Melhed. As far as I understand game mechanics, we would not participate but remain neutral in the engagements between Thal and Mel. Because Thal and Mel are close to OG borders, of course we have an interest in what is going on with this war. I hardly think having an observer present constitutes violating the one on one war that they want to have.
In regards to diplomacy, I think Melhed needs to work on this angle better. Just from OG's experience alone, I cannot speak for others, they havent exactly said or done anything to gather support or sympathy for them. Also the comments that Yeux made to the rulers about not caring and happy to burn Beluaterra to the ground, I dont think that would have sat very well with anyone. Perhaps they may want to reconsider their PR strategy and put a more friendly face to handle their diplomatic affairs.
-
Thinking from the aspect of someone who plays in Melhed but is pretty clueless of foreign diplomacy performed by Yeux, I am slightly worried that there were so many who wanted to join on Thal's side and no one on Melhed's. I am pretty sure that if Melhed would somehow do the unthinkable and started to hurt Thal real bad, and even threaten to TO Unger, Thal's perception would probably change then as well, and no effort would then be made to actually stop these other realms from joining. I am pretty sure all these vultures that are waiting would come to the feast then.
This, without a doubt, puts Melhed in a no-way-to-win situation. We are like a caged gladiator of Beluaterra. You have joy in seeing us fight, but if we fight, win and try to escape, Beluaterra will cut us down. This...well, is not that great a position for Melhed. It offers short term fun for those who play in Melhed, but for those who may have long term plans and prospects, this probably isn't very attractive. Tis why so few new nobles joined Melhed, while Thal got an abundance.
#
Ahem. When Sorraine declared war on Ohnar West it had the military advantage and EVERYONE hated Ohnar West. No one wanted to lift a finger to help them and would have rejoiced in Ohnar's defeat.
But, despite having the lousiest propaganda starting point possible (betraying an ally, being populated by all the pariahs of the continent, etc.) they did a, frankly, brilliant job at using their reputation as the underdog to gain sympathy and to turn Sorraine into the bad guy. Couple that with some good strategy on their part and a tiny bit of luck, they were able to beat Sorraine and extract a heavy price in exchange for letting them live. And I say this as a guy who was one of the top people of Sorraine at the time.
So Melhed should stop whining about how it's so terribly unfair. They brought this on themselves but if they spent half as much time thinking and acting as they did complaining then they could win this war. But so far they've been doing a very good job of negating every advantage they might have - both militarily and diplomatically.
-
So Melhed should stop whining about how it's so terribly unfair. They brought this on themselves but if they spent half as much time thinking and acting as they did complaining then they could win this war. But so far they've been doing a very good job of negating every advantage they might have - both militarily and diplomatically.
As I said previously, a lot of us like the underdog position, so we're not whining. Whatever floats up on the forums is a terrible indicator of things IG.
-
So Melhed should stop whining about how it's so terribly unfair. They brought this on themselves but if they spent half as much time thinking and acting as they did complaining then they could win this war. But so far they've been doing a very good job of negating every advantage they might have - both militarily and diplomatically.
This is not really a whine, but more the attempt to understand why Melhed didn't really receive any influx of nobles while it should have. Perhaps the new Queen can change this.
Levon isn't that greatly attached to Melhed, too, so I have no reason to rant about it for I got for what I came for: a lot of fighting without mixing myself with politics or emotions. The sometimes cruel and pretty reckless attitude that many in Melhed have towards themselves and towards the others are certainly not the ideal environment for a character like Levon, so I don't see this changing. I am more than willing to go with the flow and don't plan on leaving if Melhed can't win this.
P.S.
Your observation about our military failures are not very sound or logical, for you should probably ask yourself why you haven't yet been able to capitalize on the almost double number of nobles you have. I'd say Melhed's military has been performing from decent to mediocre so far.
-
P.S.
Your observation about our military failures are not very sound or logical, for you should probably ask yourself why you haven't yet been able to capitalize on the almost double number of nobles you have. I'd say Melhed's military has been performing from decent to mediocre so far.
I'll give it a shot. During the invasion, Thalmarkin took a beating second only to Enweil. Probably 75% of the regions, cities included, are still recovering. All the nobles in the world mean little if you can't adequately outfit them. What's Melhed's recruiting target up to now? 1,500CS per noble? Melhed emerged from the invasion almost wholly untouched after probably 5 RL years of peace. Sure, the Daimons came for her capital. And Thalmarkin saved it. You guys are literally driving around a muscle car compared to the tricycle held together with duct tape that Fingolfin calls Thalmarkin (sorry Gondolin, couldn't resist!). ;)
-
The statistics show the economy strength of Melhed and Thal to be fairly even before the war, whereas prior to the war Thal's income grew substantially due to the many investments you were making. Kudos for that.
Perhaps your regions are much underdeveloped, however, you have a whole lot more of them. Those badlands you own in the north are great gold producers, so I am not really sure that the statement you make really stands. Thal has 8 regions more than Melhed, and even if half of them are not at full production the sheer number of your regions is probably earning you much more gold than the fewer, albeit richer regions that Melhed has. At the worst scenario, I'd say it's about even, and I think the statistics chart proves this. :)
-
If Thal is literally producing as much gold as Melhed, then Enzo will start executing people in the street for crappy use of resources. The realm definitely suffers from a lack of infrastructure. Most of it fell apart during the invasion. The received wisdom in Thal is that Melhed has a ton of gold and really good RCs—both good advantages to have—that make the war competitive.
This has been a nice, indecisive war so far. The folks that run Thal were clamoring for a challenge, and so far they're getting it. When Ivagil was general, there was an understanding between him and Enzo that the two of them were almost certainly going to be on opposite sides of a war in the future. They were competitors, but exchanged a lot of information freely and occasionally gossiped about the politics. I want that relationship for Levon and Enzo. :'(
-
Sorry, but I don't have much sympathy for Melhed here. That realm has built itself a really lousy reputation over the past few years: the realm that sits around and does nothing while their allies/realms near them/the entire continent are fighting for their lives—and then, when they finally decide to do something, half the time (at least) it's something completely contrary to what most people actually want them to do.
This would be my observation as well. Melhed has had an absolutely terrible public face for years. Melhed has been, by turns, both dislikable and coldly indifferent.
When in a hole, the best policy is usually to stop digging. Then you have to lift yourself out of it. Trust me, this can be very difficult, but by the sound of it Melhed's not even trying, which makes Arrakis' observation something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
-
I'm stepping down as King of Melhed to let the young people take care.
I have to agree with many points about Melhed. I enjoyed the letter I received from Enzo, but he didn't answer back. Also, I have to thanks Noldorin/Fingolfin for keep this a 1x1 war. When Yeux spoke about burn Beluaterra, he's being true as I'm, because it's very sad to see a great continent where everyone wants to jump in this war instead seek their own wars against eachother. As I can see, a bunch of cowards trying to win some regions just to please the Northern Alliance while Thalmarkin is doing the job. It's like to have a continent with just two realms and a bunch of vultures waiting for easy profit or worse... with too much fear to fight someone else.
I don't have time to play as King as Melhed deserve. Also, I have hope to win the election in Sirion, my favorite realm.
-
I enjoyed the letter I received from Enzo, but he didn't answer back.
Aww farts. I had that flagged, and then probably unflagged it when I thought I had replied. Sorry about that. :-( Yeux's was good, too! And for what it's worth, under the current regime and the Bloodspeakers, Melhed's been more active in six months than in six years. ;D
-
Aww farts. I had that flagged, and then probably unflagged it when I thought I had replied. Sorry about that. :-( Yeux's was good, too! And for what it's worth, under the current regime and the Bloodspeakers, Melhed's been more active in six months than in six years. ;D
Solari is right, the rebellion definitely livened up Melhed a lot, though we lost some people because of it. Yeux was a great personality to start a Melite monarchy. Guess the next monarch's job is to see it survive. ;)
-
When Ivagil was general, there was an understanding between him and Enzo that the two of them were almost certainly going to be on opposite sides of a war in the future. They were competitors, but exchanged a lot of information freely and occasionally gossiped about the politics. I want that relationship for Levon and Enzo. :'(
Enzo speaks funny and in 3rd person. Levon is wondering what devilry is this! :D
-
Aww farts. I had that flagged, and then probably unflagged it when I thought I had replied. Sorry about that. :-( Yeux's was good, too! And for what it's worth, under the current regime and the Bloodspeakers, Melhed's been more active in six months than in six years. ;D
Exactly. Look at all the comments. Non of us in melhed are really complaining about the war. We enjoyed it as much as the thals. But the fact is there despite the refusal to admit it. The others will join in as soon as melhed gets an advantage and the thals will allow it for FEAR of LOSING.
Stop complaining about lack of infrastructure and golds. We do have the infrastructures but no we have never have any pillings of golds. I'm sure the golds the thals get every tax collections are more than melhed. And the fact that more nobles to support the units are more important than having the golds. Look at aurvandil.
And stop being a hypocrite. You guys want melhed to be an idle realm. Admit it. Because the moment yeux tried to change it, you guys were so afraid of it and all of a sudden you guys want to oppose that. So everything you guys said and complained are so contradicting.
Nobody cares if melhed lose. Not even those in melhed. Because we are glad we are finally out of the oppression and into the war. Thanks partly to the thals for starting the war before the melites do.
May the best realm wins :) good luck thalmarkins.
-
May the best realm wins :) good luck thalmarkins.
You make a lot of assumptions, most of them incorrect, unflattering, or kind of insulting. So I'm just gonna skip over that and wish the same. ;)
-
Well, I wont... :)
Stop complaining about lack of infrastructure and golds. We do have the infrastructures but no we have never have any pillings of golds. I'm sure the golds the thals get every tax collections are more than melhed. And the fact that more nobles to support the units are more important than having the golds. Look at aurvandil.
If Melhed doesnt have 100k gold in their coffers, it is because the dukes and rulers have used the gold for their families and sent it to other chars. Such a realm doesnt really deserve to live, at least not on Beluaterra.
And, the reason we (thalmarkin) didnt like Yeuz new rule is because the he is leader of the Bloodspeakers and the one pushing the Bloodspeakers into power. Bloodspeakers and known enemies of Thalmarkin. Also, we would most likely have pushed for war anyway, since this is exactly what we wanted... war. From what ive seen IG and here as well, Melhed wanted the same. You could never have hoped for more than a 1 on 1, so this should be your most ultimate dream.
But well, I agree on you upon letting the best realm win. Thalmarkin will stop other realms from entering the war as long as it doesnt severly damage our diplomatics. Our neighbours want in on the war and we are saying no, but we are not gonna refuse them if its gonna make us suffer in the future. This is Melheds problem, and they are the ones who need to make changes, not us.
Yeux is stepping down, and i hope the new queen will be a good diplomat. She surely needs it. If im gonna give any hints, I would suggest reaching out to Enweil, Sint and Nothoi :p
-
If Melhed doesnt have 100k gold in their coffers, it is because the dukes and rulers have used the gold for their families and sent it to other chars. Such a realm doesnt really deserve to live, at least not on Beluaterra.
It seems I'm the only one taking care of save gold. I'm used to it since Sirion.
-
Yeux is stepping down, and i hope the new queen will be a good diplomat. She surely needs it. If im gonna give any hints, I would suggest reaching out to Enweil, Sint and Nothoi :p
Keep talking... ;)
-
If Melhed doesnt have 100k gold in their coffers, it is because the dukes and rulers have used the gold for their families and sent it to other chars. Such a realm doesnt really deserve to live, at least not on Beluaterra.
That is not true actually, many families have become quite wealthy through Melhed's wealth. But it is not strictly the dukes and rulers, or even lords. Most knights made a fair amount in Melhed, and have probably sent a good chunk to their families over time.
I had a duke in Melhed for a while, and probably sent less gold to my family from him than i did from other characters I had elsewhere (if you include the investments in Melhed).
-
I would have expected the invasion to draw considerably upon Melhed's prior wealth.
-
I would have expected the invasion to draw considerably upon Melhed's prior wealth.
Melhed escaped virtually unscathed. They had a TO scare with Agyr, but that was it.
-
Without religious ifluence Agyr would have fallen. The first time I saw effective religious power. With 90% of followers and Yeux with a good oratory, I was able to resist the armies arrive.
-
Keep talking... ;)
He keeps winning.
-
You make a lot of assumptions, most of them incorrect, unflattering, or kind of insulting. So I'm just gonna skip over that and wish the same. ;)
Vice Versa, sir.
Well, I wont... :)
If Melhed doesnt have 100k gold in their coffers, it is because the dukes and rulers have used the gold for their families and sent it to other chars. Such a realm doesnt really deserve to live, at least not on Beluaterra.
And, the reason we (thalmarkin) didnt like Yeuz new rule is because the he is leader of the Bloodspeakers and the one pushing the Bloodspeakers into power. Bloodspeakers and known enemies of Thalmarkin. Also, we would most likely have pushed for war anyway, since this is exactly what we wanted... war. From what ive seen IG and here as well, Melhed wanted the same. You could never have hoped for more than a 1 on 1, so this should be your most ultimate dream.
But well, I agree on you upon letting the best realm win. Thalmarkin will stop other realms from entering the war as long as it doesnt severly damage our diplomatics. Our neighbours want in on the war and we are saying no, but we are not gonna refuse them if its gonna make us suffer in the future. This is Melheds problem, and they are the ones who need to make changes, not us.
Yeux is stepping down, and i hope the new queen will be a good diplomat. She surely needs it. If im gonna give any hints, I would suggest reaching out to Enweil, Sint and Nothoi :p
That's what i am saying. Instead of opposing those who wants to join the war, you guys let them in. I don't really see how that's maintaining 1vs1. When i said opposing, i mean fight against them instead. We already reached out to the whole continent. That was why i emphasized so much of afraid of losing. Non of them wanted to be on Melhed's side because of afraid of losing to the northern alliance. Yes, it WAS Melhed's fault and something we need to fix. But we been trying to do that since the start of the previous invasion and after. Why do you think we went all the way to Nothoi to help out with stabilizing their regions? We tried, but nothing can be proved if we weren't given a chance in the first place.
-
That's what i am saying. Instead of opposing those who wants to join the war, you guys let them in. I don't really see how that's maintaining 1vs1. When i said opposing, i mean fight against them instead.
Who are we letting in? Im not sure we are talking about the same war anymore... :-\
And, you want Thalmarkin to attack anyone who wants to aid us? Now... what?
-
Chapter 1 of The Melite's Guide to Self-Destruction.
-
Chapter 1 of The Melite's Guide to Self-Destruction.
That was...Perfect.
-
If we were to change our IG behavior based on OOG forum whining I'd be pushing hard to let OG and Fronen join us for some good old fashioned prison lovin'. Just... have some dignity, k? It's not our job to make sure you have a backup plan.
-
If we were to change our IG behavior based on OOG forum whining I'd be pushing hard to let OG and Fronen join us for some good old fashioned prison lovin'. Just... have some dignity, k? It's not our job to make sure you have a backup plan.
I agree, and I find it hard to find it anything but whining. They are complaining about Melhed !@#$ing up their diplomacy so that no one likes them and tries to complain because Thalmarkin's players said they actually need to do work to prevent allies from joining though said they weren't going to let themselves be !@#$ed over by the other realms because they were trying to prevent them from preventing the war too much.
-
I honestly dont know why people are complaining about the war. It is Thalmarkin VS Melhed. Nobody else has gotten involved.
Speaking from Old Grehk's point of view, we would only consider getting involved if Melhed began conquering Thalmarkin and getting closer to our borders. That would be considered a threat to our soverignty and frankly speaking we wouldnt let an ally be destroyed. If you consider that means two or three regions then you are mistaken. Thalmarkin are big boys and girls, I am sure they can deal with a war with Melhed and reclaim any regions they stole from them. If Melhed gets another realm onside to aid them, we would consider involving ourselves then as well, to keep the balance in the war.
All I see are people complaining and making excuses that we are going to get involved, when frankly we are not. If Melhed wants to keep it that way, I suggest they lift their standing and ability on the diplomatic front, they seriously need to work on that overtime if they want to ensure any favourable outcome from this war.
Oh and please note the word "consider" doesnt mean it is a definate. There are many factors to take into account when making these kinds of decisions, I was merely outlining some potential scenarios ;)
-
Who is complaining anyway? All I see is talk about people complaining. Sheesh.
I'm really happy the war has stayed 1v1; it is a tough match. Thal is strong but Melhed is tanky. A unit from OG did kind of pass through like a ghost, never really found out what he was up to... :o
-
That observer from OG at every battle was the perfect amount of intrigue and WTF. Shame he's in a rogue prison now. XD
-
Melhed got a victory over us but we both came out with the same amount of CS...odd
-
Sometimes you have pyrrhic victories!
-
Our first defeat in Bil Havil ended the same way. Though to be fair, this time Melhed had more CS left over as 2 nobles are still arriving... and both are cavalry.
All fear our thunderous charge!
-
I hate Cavalry... >:(
-
Melhed got a victory over us but we both came out with the same amount of CS...odd
that was pretty cool! fun/confusing battle report to look at.
-
There has been many funny/weird maneuvering these last few days. ???
-
There has been many funny/weird maneuvering these last few days. ???
8)
-
...and there comes a Chenier to Melhed. Impending doom! :D
-
MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
-
...and there comes a Chenier to Melhed. Impending doom! :D
I would have been quite content with sailing as a rogue for some time, but the game buggered out and acted as if I was in prison, teleporting me out of the seas.
-
You got captured by the pirates. :p
-
Nice pirates that let you keep all of your gold and bring you to safety? :P
-
That's because Melhed - the pirates need more than gold hence you were brought there. ;D
-
Maybe I've underestimated just how bad things are in Melhed. If the realm who was largely inactive during the invasion (and therefore unpunished) thought it was a good idea to invite the guy who (is it twice now?) actually betrayed humanity to the Daimons... the Belgian Pride shield that emanates from Fingolfin and Dunbor won't be enough to stop the haters. :-\
-
Maybe I've underestimated just how bad things are in Melhed. If the realm who was largely inactive during the invasion (and therefore unpunished) thought it was a good idea to invite the guy who (is it twice now?) actually betrayed humanity to the Daimons... the Belgian Pride shield that emanates from Fingolfin and Dunbor won't be enough to stop the haters. :-\
Who said we invited him?
-
"Hooray! The most hated noble of BT in our realm!"
Great effort from you guys to keep it 1 on 1. :P
-
I've yet to see any cheers, despite all the freebies I'm giving them. ;)
And betrayal is bull!@#$. Guillaume got framed by people who wanted his throne. As for the fourth invasion, the alliance with the daimons was purely to keep the monsters in check, unlike the Riombarans (Meridian Republic) who used the monsters to kill a human realm (Avalon) and take lands (Fwuvoghor).
Sint openly worshipped the daimons, and Hemaism's wiki still puts them as gods, and yet even the self-righteous riombarans have no problems with allying them to break their treaty with Enweil and invade.
-
Sint openly worshipped the daimons, and Hemaism's wiki still puts them as gods, and yet even the self-righteous riombarans have no problems with allying them to break their treaty with Enweil and invade.
And people still talk about Sint the way the Cato talked about Carthage, though a change in leadership and honorable behavior during the last invasion have helped.
-
And people still talk about Sint the way the Cato talked about Carthage, though a change in leadership and honorable behavior during the last invasion have helped.
I used to talk about Enweil like that back in the day. :)
-
I still talk like that about everybody :P
-Jaune
-
Public Execution (1 hour, 48 minutes ago)
Messengers bring news of a public execution in Agyr earlier today.
Kuvio, a noble of Thalmarkin, had been banned from Melhed as a traitor on 2013-02-23. When he was later imprisoned, the judge of Melhed decided to make him pay for his treason.
Tstststs.
-
You can't say he didn't deserve it. He has been attacking Melite nobles even while he wore the colors of Sint.
-
And that makes him thus the more special to us. :)
-
You can't say he didn't deserve it. He has been attacking Melite nobles even while he wore the colors of Sint.
Oh man, I'd forgotten about that. It's true, he was pretty popular in Thal even back then!
-
You can't say he didn't deserve it. He has been attacking Melite nobles even while he wore the colors of Sint.
Yeah, and Maya remembers it all. She's got a forgiving attitude for now... but it doesn't extend to Kuvio, who seriously injured at least 2 nobles as I recall, including our last judge.
-
Yeah, and Maya remembers it all. She's got a forgiving attitude for now... but it doesn't extend to Kuvio, who seriously injured at least 2 nobles as I recall, including our last judge.
Grinning ear-to-ear.
I only wish I could do more. I was delightfully surprised about the reaction to his execution.
-
I only wish I could do more. I was delightfully surprised about the reaction to his execution.
It certainly has not gone unnoticed, and will strike down as a big bang soon enough worldwide :)
-
Magic-fest in both Thal and Melhed! Is the world coming to an end? ;D
-
My dude has now witnessed a good number of uses of the scrolls to summon foul beasts. Though we'll wait to see if more spawn, the horde in Melhed was rather small for the amount of scrolls used... All of the spawns always seem to be about the same number of baddies, regardless of how many scrolls are used.
I suspect, however, that using a ton may either enlarge the area of effect or have a lingering effect, perhaps in addition to bigger spawns if bigger they ought to be. There may be a delay that must be considered as well...
-
Awwww, that sounds disappointing :(
What was the approximate count?
-
Awwww, that sounds disappointing :(
What was the approximate count?
Not much. It'll take a few nobles to deal with it, but certainly not the whole army.
It's actually the third time I see scrolls used, and I'm wondering if I'm not seeing a pattern... But that's reserved for the people nice enough* to give a shelter to a Chénier. :P
*Provided said people aren't filthy Riombarans or Sintians
-
I would like to have the same energy to play in Beluaterra right now. Many crazy things happening in this war, the first expercience after the Invasion. And one of the first sea invasion in the continent, right!? I'm reading more letters in Melhed now than ever.
I chose the right people for the right positions. My legacy for Melhed... along a frightening religion to be hated. 8)
-
Seriously, this is really exciting and quite confusing for an old-school player who needs to relearn (and learn anew) so many things. I had completely forgotten about scrolls and really can't wait to see what they are capable of doing.
-
Seriously, this is really exciting and quite confusing for an old-school player who needs to relearn (and learn anew) so many things. I had completely forgotten about scrolls and really can't wait to see what they are capable of doing.
Give me 10, and I'll conduct an experiment for you. ;)
-
Give me 10, and I'll conduct an experiment for you. ;)
Kalixta has 2 notably unused scrolls of summon undead
-
Only about half related to this: Once my advy in FEI becomes a noble, he's off to Thalmarkin. It's one of the liveliest realms I've seen in a while!
-
This war is definitely awesome, good for both Melhed and Thalmarkin without a doubt. Maya kinda even likes Fingolfin in a weird way because of it.
-
Don't worry, it's only natural to like Fingolfin. Guy's a living legend who hasn't let his celebrity status go to his head. :)
-
Kalixta has 2 notably unused scrolls of summon undead
A used scroll is like a used condom. Nobody hangs onto them.
-
The only person who knows what was cast in Bisana is me. Having a squatter in region who sees the message about the crows does not make you an expert on the subject Chenier.
The reaction of Melhed to what /was/ cast, is absolutely hilarious though. Too bad the person you guys accuse of casting spells is currently in Sandefur...
Weird how that happens...
Kin of Thalmar, raise your cups! The war will be over soon enough!
-
It's not much to guess that you teleported back to Sandefur. Beam me up Scotty!
-
Wait...
Teleport has been implemented? Srsly?
-
Wait...
Teleport has been implemented? Srsly?
Yeah; that was actually one of the early scrolls.
It's been used before to amusing effect.
-
Wait...
Teleport has been implemented? Srsly?
I used it once to teleport from where the Zuma are on Dwilight over to Morek's capital. THAT WAS A BLAST. ^_^ Saved me a real-life month of travel.
-
Teleport scrolls are maybe the coolest thing I've never used. I honestly think Woelfy has pushed the art of applied scroll tactics to the very edge. He's basically a wizard ninja assassin at this point, and it's been amazing to watch. I hope he shares this knowledge/approach, but I couldn't blame him if he doesn't. ;)
-
Don't worry, it's only natural to like Fingolfin. Guy's a living legend who hasn't let his celebrity status go to his head. :)
Couldn't say it better.
I can see we don't have any whining now but instead, everyone is enjoying the war :D
-
Couldn't say it better.
I can see we don't have any whining now but instead, everyone is enjoying the war :D
IC on the other hand... There comes the old "Foul witchcraft!" versus "Gwargnargnarrr, feel our power!" argument again. ::) :)
-
A magic assassination attempt?
C'mon guys, really?
-
You're the ones who escalated the war, you're just getting to know what it means. :)
Edit: that said, hell yeah magical assassination! 8)
-
Jaeger is a one man wrecking ball. Jesus...
-
You're the ones who escalated the war, you're just getting to know what it means. :)
Edit: that said, hell yeah magical assassination! 8)
Not really, Thalmarkin escalated this time. Fingolfin wrote to Maya too late for her to retract the execution order. Just a convenient excuse for you guys to play dirty, if you ask me. Thalmarkin likes to call Melhed all the dirty words in the book when really you guys have all the tricks up your sleeves. Slippery, slippery Feathers!
-
Not really, Thalmarkin escalated this time. Fingolfin wrote to Maya too late for her to retract the execution order. Just a convenient excuse for you guys to play dirty, if you ask me. Thalmarkin likes to call Melhed all the dirty words in the book when really you guys have all the tricks up your sleeves. Slippery, slippery Feathers!
That sounds like jealousy for not having thought of it first.
And it was no magical assassination attempt, merely a magical means of silencing an annoying character. As has been mentioned in game. xD
Jaeger is a one man wrecking ball. Jesus...
Training and tactics ftw!!
IC on the other hand... There comes the old "Foul witchcraft!" versus "Gwargnargnarrr, feel our power!" argument again. ::) :)
It's no argument. The Arcane Club wins. duh.
-
Not really, Thalmarkin escalated this time. Fingolfin wrote to Maya too late for her to retract the execution order.
The execution order in itself is an obvious escalation.
Just a convenient excuse for you guys to play dirty, if you ask me. Thalmarkin likes to call Melhed all the dirty words in the book when really you guys have all the tricks up your sleeves. Slippery, slippery Feathers!
Both of us wanted to play "dirty" and rightly so. It'd be a shame if we just let those cool new scrolls lie about, let us all show a little respect and enjoy the new toys Tom cooked up for us. :)
But yeah, wizards do have big sleeves. :)
-
It's no argument. The Arcane Club wins. duh.
Stop talking to yourself then!
Also, be nice to yourself. ;)
-
The execution order in itself is an obvious escalation.
Both of us wanted to play "dirty" and rightly so. It'd be a shame if we just let those cool new scrolls lie about, let us all show a little respect and enjoy the new toys Tom cooked up for us. :)
But yeah, wizards do have big sleeves. :)
Yeah, I appreciate the new toys, but it was a tough situation to be put in for Melhed - our use of them was supposedly going to be used as a continental casus belli to exterminate Melhed, but Thal gets to play with them and it's cool. Seems like a huge double standard.
And Thal players, please don't bother pointing out that I'm bitching right now, I'm fully aware of it. Just quite miffed that Maya is knocked out of the ruler game right when things were getting interesting.
-
Not really, Thalmarkin escalated this time. Fingolfin wrote to Maya too late for her to retract the execution order. Just a convenient excuse for you guys to play dirty, if you ask me. Thalmarkin likes to call Melhed all the dirty words in the book when really you guys have all the tricks up your sleeves. Slippery, slippery Feathers!
You shouldn't read too much into things. There's no grand plan of malice at work. I can see how it might look that way to Melhed, though. ;) Thal is just having fun exploring the different ways to wage a war or carry out an objective... Like delaying Melhed's refit. ;)
-
Solari, don't lie to them. It might not be a /grand/ plan of malice, but Jaeger definitely has /a/ plan of malice for Melhed....especially the ruling class.
Lorgan, Gavyn is paused - no more talking to myself. :( And no! I refuse to let my esteemed Grand Wizard treat that commoner with any respect! That's just silly!
Melites: I told you that you wouldn't enjoy your time in Sandefur. Next time you think to insult a stranger, think twice.
-
Melheds execution was a clear step towards deeper hatred and increased warfare. Fingolfin couldnt possibly know that you had alreayd given the order, and as such his letter stands (and even if he knew about the execution order, it would obviously still stand... you killed my knight!).
Fingolfins next step is to punish Jaeger. With Melhed (as far as we know at least) using scrolls in northern Thalmarkin, you have brought scrolls upon yourself. Fingolfin did however forbid people to use summoning scrolls, and he bloody cant let people do as they please after he has told them not to :p Even though it might be ok now by default, Fingolfin still hasnt given the ok to the people with scrolls, and they are thusly breaking his command. Unthinkable! Now we have to see what is punished most hard, lies or breaking command...
Melhed certainly isnt put in an easy position, but lets get yourself out of it! :) As for Maya, if Melhed is the realm they make themselves to be, she should have no problem with getting reelected if she should loose the crown.
-
In regards to Kuvio, both IC and OOC, everyone knew he had it coming. Previous sabotage and attempted murder aside, he WAS banned for Melhed. Then he came back, illegally, doing more illegal stuff. He knew what would happen.
Don't be mad because we finally caught your Captain. Jack. Sparrow.
There is no way Thalmarkin can seriously use him as a legitimate excuse/martyr to justify how the war has been escalated.
-
In regards to Kuvio, both IC and OOC, everyone knew he had it coming. Previous sabotage and attempted murder aside, he WAS banned for Melhed. Then he came back, illegally, doing more illegal stuff. He knew what would happen.
Don't be mad because we finally caught your Captain. Jack. Sparrow.
There is no way Thalmarkin can seriously use him as a legitimate excuse/martyr to justify how the war has been escalated.
Yeah and you declared void the whole judge agreement. Please...
-
Executions aren't all that common. Especially not on BT or between realms who are not hatred with eachother etc. If Melhed had not cancelled the treaties we had this would not have been allowed (a treaty your beloved former Judge wrote and signed).
-
And it's not just Kuvio, you've threatened to do it to all the nobles you capture.
So... no way? Yes way!
-
Yes, there is more "human" ways to get riddoff pesky infiltrators. There is pretty much boats sailing between continents.
Anyway, this is still quite intresting and fun! I bet both sides is having good time!
-
This is easily the most fun I've had in a war ever. I'm sure I'd be upset if Thalmarkin lost, but damn if it wouldn't have been an EPIC loss.
-
Scrolls are there to be used no?
This will just make everything more interesting if both sides use them and, you said you would. Its fair. MHO
-
Actually, at no point did Kalixta ever say she would kill nobles outright, simply for being enemies. She DID say that because Thalmarkin troops raped and murdered in Lloringel, the lives of any commoners she caught would be rendered forfeit as retribution.
Kalixta has a serious problem with Rapists.
-
Well let's just say the overall tone wasn't very friendly.
The fact is you killed a noble while the worst we've ever done was welcome your Queen to our city where she happened to slip on some ice and seriously hurt herself.
-
Well let's just say the overall tone wasn't very friendly.
The fact is you killed a noble while the worst we've ever done was welcome your Queen to our city where she happened to slip on some ice and seriously hurt herself.
Lorgan, your level of distortion is astounding. I'm done playing forum warrior with this stuff, I cede this thread to Thalmarkin.
I'll take your kingdom though ;)
-
Lorgan, your level of distortion is astounding. I'm done playing forum warrior with this stuff, I cede this thread to Thalmarkin.
The scroll is called a scroll of accident. ;)
-
Well, Lorgan, in all fairness, I did have a /little/ to do with that 'accident'. Sudden wind blowing an icicle off my keep and hitting her in the head, rendering her unconcious for a few days... I mean... I guess it's my fault for not thinking about the icicles?
Bwahahaha, I do love this war.
And seriously, the Melite's didn't notice the first round of summonings? I mean, yeah, they were spread out....but damn. At least round two was enough to raise ire, if not hackles.
-
Well, Lorgan, in all fairness, I did have a /little/ to do with that 'accident'. Sudden wind blowing an icicle off my keep and hitting her in the head, rendering her unconcious for a few days... I mean... I guess it's my fault for not thinking about the icicles?
Bwahahaha, I do love this war.
And seriously, the Melite's didn't notice the first round of summonings? I mean, yeah, they were spread out....but damn. At least round two was enough to raise ire, if not hackles.
Only 'cause I was passing by...
If those scrolls are supposed to be devastating, it's not working. The rogue spawn was not significant...
And you assume this is the first I hear of scrolls being used, and that I've never used one myself. You shouldn't assume so many things all at once.
-
Only 'cause I was passing by...
If those scrolls are supposed to be devastating, it's not working. The rogue spawn was not significant...
And you assume this is the first I hear of scrolls being used, and that I've never used one myself. You shouldn't assume so many things all at once.
10 scrolls would likely be pretty devastating, but one is not meant to be.
-
I would call 10 problematic, not devastating.
Get up to a couple dozen, and you might begin to be able to call it devastating.
-
In regards to Kuvio, both IC and OOC, everyone knew he had it coming. Previous sabotage and attempted murder aside, he WAS banned for Melhed. Then he came back, illegally, doing more illegal stuff. He knew what would happen.
Don't be mad because we finally caught your Captain. Jack. Sparrow.
There is no way Thalmarkin can seriously use him as a legitimate excuse/martyr to justify how the war has been escalated.
I definitely knew I had it coming, but I was a little surprised at my horrendous luck... Medium risk production sabotage in an empty region... Worse, no escape option. Darn shame, too. 60% in both swordfighting and infiltration.
Ah well, Kuvio's head may roll, but it's only a portent for the metaphorical boulder about to roll over Melhed. :P
-
I would call 10 problematic, not devastating.
Get up to a couple dozen, and you might begin to be able to call it devastating.
The problem is, how the hell is anyone supposed to get a couple dozen? It's rare to find a lord with two, you'd have to probably collect them for over a year and a half to two years...
-
A couple dozen would let you summon a rogue army about the size of most realms' standing armies. That's the kind of thing that SHOULD take a year of hard work to accomplish.
-
Only 'cause I was passing by...
If those scrolls are supposed to be devastating, it's not working. The rogue spawn was not significant...
And you assume this is the first I hear of scrolls being used, and that I've never used one myself. You shouldn't assume so many things all at once.
I wasn't speaking of you, nor to you, Chenier.
You assuming that I speak to you, or at you, is assuming too much at once as well.
The problem is, how the hell is anyone supposed to get a couple dozen? It's rare to find a lord with two, you'd have to probably collect them for over a year and a half to two years...
Jaeger has used 14 summoning scrolls since the war began, 7 in Bisana. It has taken a little less than a year, and more are already coming to him. If you have a problem getting scrolls, that's your problem. :D
I definitely knew I had it coming, but I was a little surprised at my horrendous luck... Medium risk production sabotage in an empty region... Worse, no escape option. Darn shame, too. 60% in both swordfighting and infiltration.
Ah well, Kuvio's head may roll, but it's only a portent for the metaphorical boulder about to roll over Melhed. :P
Kuvio dying is what let Jaeger come unchained. Sad to lose another infil, but it made for a great catalyst!!
-
The problem is, how the hell is anyone supposed to get a couple dozen? It's rare to find a lord with two, you'd have to probably collect them for over a year and a half to two years...
Good, I don't feel like having an invasion every second week...
-
Lorgan, your level of distortion is astounding. I'm done playing forum warrior with this stuff, I cede this thread to Thalmarkin.
I'll take your kingdom though ;)
Oh no, you shouldn't leave. :(
-
I definitely knew I had it coming, but I was a little surprised at my horrendous luck... Medium risk production sabotage in an empty region... Worse, no escape option. Darn shame, too. 60% in both swordfighting and infiltration.
Ah well, Kuvio's head may roll, but it's only a portent for the metaphorical boulder about to roll over Melhed. :P
If it helps at all, that execution cost Kalixta 6 Honor and 5 prestige. :-X
-
What's a Kalixta?
8)
-
What's a Kalixta?
8)
Kalixta: (N) Personal scourge of Guiles everywhere :P
-
Kalixta: (N) Personal scourge of Guiles everywhere :P
She's quickly become the "Witch of Melhed" in Thalmarkin. So, job well done on crafting the perfect villain for the moment. 8)
-
She's quickly become the "Witch of Melhed" in Thalmarkin. So, job well done on crafting the perfect villain for the moment. 8)
That's actually pretty sweet to know. I've designed her character as the foil to Rynn. For starters, she hates him, though I have yet to update my wiki to reflect it. Where Rynn would avoid spilled blood if possible, she would bathe in it. Mix that bloodlust with iron loyalty and just a small dash of desiring to be good...ish, and you have a fairly complicated character.
For example, she has a Guile advy in her dungeon right now and has NOT killed him, even though she promised to behead all Thal adv's she met.
As a player, I am starting to have more funplaying her than Rynn atm. This is a great war.
-
I was pretty amazed when I landed in Melhed and was all like... wait a minute... I know this guy. And this guy. And this guy. And... that guy... We should rename Melhed to D'Hara Nova. ;)
-
I was pretty amazed when I landed in Melhed and was all like... wait a minute... I know this guy. And this guy. And this guy. And... that guy... We should rename Melhed to D'Hara Nova. ;)
D'Hara Nova: Hated by one and all, but not caring cuz we be rich as hell
-
Um...Chénier, don't you mean "rename D'Hara to Melhed Nova"?
Melhed's been around a wee bit longer than D'Hara...like, at least twice as long.
-
Um...Chénier, don't you mean "rename D'Hara to Melhed Nova"?
Melhed's been around a wee bit longer than D'Hara...like, at least twice as long.
Indeed, I would know, I played in Melhed for quite some time in the past, and had on and off ties to it. However, I don't recall any of the D'Haran families being in Melhed back then. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that they joined D'Hara before joining Melhed.
A lot of the oldies I played in Melhed with in the days are no longer around.
-
I've noticed a fair number of Lurian players in Thalmarkin as well. Funny how that rivalry spans continents. Kinda concerns me that it turns it into an OOC rivalry though, those kinds of tension is where my patience for BM runs thin.
Anyway, fitting into this dichotomy wasn't really intentional for me. My first character was Ismail, who is basically a D'Haran patriot, like a Persian Ben Franklin or something. Maya showed up later, bounced around a bit, and when she landed in Beluaterra she chose Melhed basically based on the description; she arrived as a spurned Tandaros who wanted to hurt people and connect to the 'glorious past,' whatever that is. I guess she got her wish, scars and all.
-
Kalixta: (N) Personal scourge of Guiles everywhere :P
Hahahaha, this is the funniest thing I have ever seen in BM. The biggest scourge of the Guiles, is House Solari, for reasons only known to the two of us.
Nice try though.
Kalixta is nothing but an annoyance to my characters. The advy you have, is paused, and rather expendable. So, enjoy.
-
I've noticed a fair number of Lurian players in Thalmarkin as well. Funny how that rivalry spans continents.
Happened the other way around, actually! The initial push for war with Aurvandil brought quite a few folks from post-invasion Thalmarkin still looking for something to kill. Very few of us were in both realms originally. Thalmarkin and Melhed is a pretty old rivalry, but it's dwarfed by D'Hara and Luria. Any Thals wandering into Luria basically had no choice. :)
-
I've noticed a fair number of Lurian players in Thalmarkin as well. Funny how that rivalry spans continents. Kinda concerns me that it turns it into an OOC rivalry though, those kinds of tension is where my patience for BM runs thin.
Anyway, fitting into this dichotomy wasn't really intentional for me. My first character was Ismail, who is basically a D'Haran patriot, like a Persian Ben Franklin or something. Maya showed up later, bounced around a bit, and when she landed in Beluaterra she chose Melhed basically based on the description; she arrived as a spurned Tandaros who wanted to hurt people and connect to the 'glorious past,' whatever that is. I guess she got her wish, scars and all.
Well I can only speak for the Lurians and myself, but there is no OOC rivalry that I know of. And its less that the rivalry has extended to BT, then it is that Thal is awesome, and so is LN so many play in both, (and Coria).
-
If it helps at all, that execution cost Kalixta 6 Honor and 5 prestige. :-X
Wow, yeah, that helps a bit. :P
-
What is wrong with choosing a realm with same people when you know for sure you will have fun with them?
This is what we try to do all the time, isn't? To call people to our realms, people that will make it better.
I am in both, Luria and Thal. Luria was my second realm, Thal was a experience that happen to be the best one since I've started to play BM.
You all complain too much and mostly about things you have no clue.
This topic was not started to make propaganda, but the result of it is that we have a lot of new players there. That means, we are doing something right :)
-
What is wrong with choosing a realm with same people when you know for sure you will have fun with them?
This is what we try to do all the time, isn't? To call people to our realms, people that will make it better.
I am in both, Luria and Thal. Luria was my second realm, Thal was a experience that happen to be the best one since I've started to play BM.
You all complain too much and mostly about things you have no clue.
This topic was not started to make propaganda, but the result of it is that we have a lot of new players there. That means, we are doing something right :)
I am tired of all you guys that are being such hypocrites. NOBODY IS COMPLAINING, for god sake! The only one complaining are you guys. OMG. Let's get to war already.
-
I am tired of all you guys that are being such hypocrites. NOBODY IS COMPLAINING, for god sake! The only one complaining are you guys. OMG. Let's get to war already.
I've noticed a fair number of Lurian players in Thalmarkin as well. Funny how that rivalry spans continents. Kinda concerns me that it turns it into an OOC rivalry though, those kinds of tension is where my patience for BM runs thin.
Please don't act like you know whats being said if you aren't even reading the thread.
-
Please don't act like you know whats being said if you aren't even reading the thread.
Then show me the post where people are actually complaining instead of quoting those that said we are not.
-
I am tired of all you guys that are being such hypocrites. NOBODY IS COMPLAINING, for god sake! The only one complaining are you guys. OMG. Let's get to war already.
Post where someone is complaining.
-
The only complaints I see are from Disturbedyang.
-
Kalixta's about to have no honor or prestige left :-[
-
Has Guile been banned from melhed?
-
Has Guile been banned from melhed?
I didn't see the "due to a ban spoken on him blah blah" message, so I don't think so.
-
Actually, I believe he bought his freedom before Kalixta could ban him. Slippery! And the advy has no known crimes against him other than his blood. Might be they both get to walk.
-
;D
-
How to tell you're winning a war: when the other side starts importing characters from their own families.
-
...Maybe it's just a good war?
-
Well, then we lost war to Daimons, cause i saw qutie huge influx of double chars at Thalmarkin back then :P
-Juane
-
Well, then we lost war to Daimons, cause i saw qutie huge influx of double chars at Thalmarkin back then :P
-Jaune
He said losing a war, not that you lost the war. And its hard to say that the war was never being lost against the daimons, until well when you won, which wasn't really a win but simply a survival so yeah.
-
Solari... >:(
So, I am not bringing Mattias anymore.
-
Solari... >:(
So, I am not bringing Mattias anymore.
:(
-
Thalmarkin won't win while there is a certain person on the side of Melhed.
edit: oops typo
-
Thalmarkin won win while there is a certain person on the side of Melhed.
What? There is a noble in Melhed resisting us?!
It is unfortunate, but still I doubt it would change much. Thalmarkin Will always keep the high ground. Even though there are people who disagree, they are being accused at this very moment :)
-
Kudos to Marvel Jeffrey on the stabbing! We had him in Affkat, then got lazy. Guess that's what I get. XD
-
How to tell you're winning a war: when the other side starts importing characters from their own families.
New Realm Member (9 minutes ago)
A new noble has just arrived in Thalmarkin from one of the other continents. Afi Solari is starting a new career today.
Other members of the Solari family on this continent are:
Enzo Solari, General of Thalmarkin, Duke of Sandefur, Baron of Coness, Marshal of Livestock and Peasant Liberation Force
You can check the background of this family or send a welcome message.
I hope you are not thinking about loosing our war, no? ???
-
I just love the name of his army...
-
I hope you are not thinking about loosing our war, no? ???
He had to go somewhere. Heorot imploded. Thalmarkin is almost exactly the same climate, geography, and attitude as BoM.
-
He had to go somewhere. Heorot imploded. Thalmarkin is almost exactly the same climate, geography, and attitude as BoM.
:)
-
I hope you are not thinking about loosing our war, no? ???
We got one too, I think, so it's even. :P
-
Oh man, Kuvio's outcast son may be getting his third recommendation soon!
It's going to take some time to prepare, so I'm going for "Orado the Green" just in time for Christmas. :D
-
But if Orado leaves, who will repair Velax's unique items?!
-
But if Orado leaves, who will repair Velax's unique items?!
Uh oh, he's onto me!
Uh... uh... that's a different Orado. Yeah. Totally. :P
(I'm seriously torn between having him stick around or go help Thal.)
-
Oh man, Kuvio's outcast son may be getting his third recommendation soon!
It's going to take some time to prepare, so I'm going for "Orado the Green" just in time for Christmas. :D
Hah, Orado the Green? Why green?
-
To keep Green Peace off his back. Duh.
-
Uh oh, he's onto me!
Uh... uh... that's a different Orado. Yeah. Totally. :P
(I'm seriously torn between having him stick around or go help Thal.)
Stay in Arcaea and become a noble. We've got a nice big war going. :)
-
...or avenge Kuvio!
-
Or have a good party at Vore!
-OO
-
Hah, Orado the Green? Why green?
Mostly for the Christmas joke, but I was thinking I could RP poisons to guide you. :P
Or I could just be laughably bad at things and be "the Green" as in, "the inexperienced".
-
Mostly for the Christmas joke, but I was thinking I could RP poisons to guide you. :P
Or I could just be laughably bad at things and be "the Green" as in, "the inexperienced".
RP poisons would be cool, or elaborate knife-fights. I'd really appreciate a good RP a couple minutes before someone makes an assassination attempt on me... just seems like good etiquette. Like dinner and a movie, you know?
-
I was gonna do an RP with Red after their date in Affkat but Maya took off to sea before I got home from work :(
-
Yeah, one of the fun part about being an infiltrator is to roleplay the process. For that, i apologize to Enzo Solari for not being to do just that when i attacked him. Was during my busy RL period. Will do so the next time i do :p
-
I was gonna do an RP with Red after their date in Affkat but Maya took off to sea before I got home from work :(
That's Maya for ya. :-* She never sits still long.
-
The most fun assassinations are those where someone else gets the blame, and no one ever finds out that you did it, IC or OOC.
-
We agree on this. It would be nice to have more RP before and after a battle.
-
This war is like a close arm-wrestling match. Thalmarkin is bigger, stronger, richer, and well fed, but they don't quite have the strength to force Melhed's arm to the table.
Melhed, on the other hand, is only just keeping up.
-
Thalmarkin is only richer and better fed because of the looting we have accomplished in your lands. other than that it was pretty even.
-
It's like both sides are desperately trying to paint themselves as the underdog, like an Australian State election. "You have all the advantages in this war, so we're doing so well to keep up!" "No, you have all the advantages and you mismanaged them!"
-
You said what I was thinking.
-
The statistics page reveals otherwise. For most of the values that it tracks, Melhed rarely, if ever, outproduced Thalmarkin, this has been so since well before the outset of this war. One of the values I thought was interesting was that of military power, where the numbers actually run in Melhed's favor, until I realized that every city in Melhed sports at least 5-6000 CS of militia.
I would argue that this war is truly interesting only because of the passionate RP hatreds between the two nations (which I absolutely adore) and that Melhed has consistently held out for so long since Thalmarkin has been unable or unwilling to steamroll their way to Agyr
-
The statistics page reveals otherwise. For most of the values that it tracks, Melhed rarely, if ever, outproduced Thalmarkin, this has been so since well before the outset of this war. One of the values I thought was interesting was that of military power, where the numbers actually run in Melhed's favor, until I realized that every city in Melhed sports at least 5-6000 CS of militia.
I would argue that this war is truly interesting only because of the passionate RP hatreds between the two nations (which I absolutely adore) and that Melhed has consistently held out for so long since Thalmarkin has been unable or unwilling to steamroll their way to Agyr
They're hoping winter will do their dirty work. A good move imo but anticlimactic. Maya kinda wants to go to the edge of Qual and yell COME AT ME BRO.
It's like both sides are desperately trying to paint themselves as the underdog, like an Australian State election. "You have all the advantages in this war, so we're doing so well to keep up!" "No, you have all the advantages and you mismanaged them!"
Hah, true. Forum propaganda wars drain my soul just a little bit. Better to take it IG.
-
Maya wants to meet Red again?
-
Maya wants to meet Red again?
Maya loves making new frenemies.
-
I would argue that this war is truly interesting only because of the passionate RP hatreds between the two nations (which I absolutely adore) and that Melhed has consistently held out for so long since Thalmarkin has been unable or unwilling to steamroll their way to Agyr
The latter is a conscious choice. I will never assault Agyr directly. Just isn't going to happen. It might suffer, and eventually crumble to be sure, but I'm not going to piss away Thal's limited resources on some vainglorious assault on one of three Melite cities. ;-P
-
The latter is a conscious choice. I will never assault Agyr directly. Just isn't going to happen. It might suffer, and eventually crumble to be sure, but I'm not going to piss away Thal's limited resources on some vainglorious assault on one of three Melite cities. ;-P
That being said, there is a party in lloringel. Wanna come?
-
Nice RP ;D
-
That being said, there is a party in lloringel. Wanna come?
Enzo's delegates will be arriving shortly. ;)
In seriousness, I *do* want Enzo to make it to a battle. There's a RP involving a donkey that I've been dying to write...
-
23k vs 8k?
Yup, that should just about do it. GG guys.
-
Enzo, the dude that put the Chénier family on a path of rebellion and unrest. ;D
-
There's more than 23K floating around. We have a bunch of old, slow nobles, though I love them so.
-
That was fast...
-
Huh.
-
DAMNIT. I didn't bring 28K to a knife fight just to turn around. Melhed, you have deprived me of the last proof that I needed for my war plan's hypothesis! >:(
-
We have others wars to fight if you are interested :p
-
We have others wars to fight if you are interested :p
Okay!
-
I'll just come right out and say this: As a player I have a healthy amount of respect for Melhed for putting up a pretty decent fight. The ending was a bit anticlimactic but probably inevitable.
-
I'll just come right out and say this: As a player I have a healthy amount of respect for Melhed for putting up a pretty decent fight. The ending was a bit anticlimactic but probably inevitable.
Well thank you! That means a lot to me. We tried... maybe with the discipline of a college frisbee team... but we tried.
-
Yup. Better to have a short, feisty war like this one than to have one that drags on forever and ends up destroying a big chunk of the map. Props to Melhed.
Then again, I won't be sure about this till all those lands are ours... :P
-
I'll just come right out and say this: As a player I have a healthy amount of respect for Melhed for putting up a pretty decent fight.
^
When peace is actually signed, I'll expound on what our strategy was, and hopefully Melhed folks will too. And then I'll explain why this war could've easily been won by either side.
-
^
When peace is actually signed, I'll expound on what our strategy was, and hopefully Melhed folks will too. And then I'll explain why this war could've easily been won by either side.
Looking forward to it.
-
Looking forward to it.
I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
-
^
When peace is actually signed, I'll expound on what our strategy was, and hopefully Melhed folks will too. And then I'll explain why this war could've easily been won by either side.
Yeah, that would be nice. I'll give a full account of my side once things settle, too. Maybe someone can put a write-up on the wiki for this war... I'd volunteer but I've got enough crap going on in BM and RL.
-
What you mean with write-up? The battles? I started it at wiki, but I was not sure what to put. I saved most rps about it and a few battles...
-
So...what happened, exactly? Peace?
-
So...what happened, exactly? Peace?
Thalmarkin steam-rolled Melhed's army in Bil Havil and scored a huge victory. Queen Maya sought a cease-fire with King Fingolfin to discuss terms of peace. Upon agreeing on a general framework, the cease fire was signed and it appears the armies are heading home, leaving the King and Queen to negotiate in Bil Havil.
-
/me chuckles "It will be mine! MINE! I will become king! KING! I will conquer world! WORLD!
-
I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Need I be an !@#$%^& every time?
I'm not really involved in BT affairs right now, and despite expecting Thalmarkin to win, I did not expect it this way.
-
Need I be an !@#$%^& every time?
I'm not really involved in BT affairs right now, and despite expecting Thalmarkin to win, I did not expect it this way.
Well you don't NEED to be...
-
So...what happened, exactly? Peace?
To add a bit more info to what's already been said: Melhed will give up all of Agyr duchy minus Tepmona for Thalmarkin to found a new realm in which will be a recreation of Ar Agyr.
-
To add a bit more info to what's already been said: Melhed will give up all of Agyr duchy minus Tepmona for Thalmarkin to found a new realm in which will be a recreation of Ar Agyr.
And for anyone who thinks that might be an unreasonable capitulation, it's pretty much what the *dove* faction in Thalmarkin will settle for. The Hawks would've just kept going until the realm ceased to exist, with an inter-faction disagreement over whether to give Fronepu back to Fronen or keep it for ourselves.
-
The creation of Ar Agyr in roughly those lands was the exact goal for us at the start of this war.
We're not unreasonable, we just aim high. :)
-
Personally I'm very happy with the ceasefire - I'd have hated Melhed to be destroyed simply because it would have made the game more boring. This way we get a new realm on the scene and Melhed could quite easily bounce back to greatness in the future. It keeps the gamer much more dynamic and fun :)
-
Yeah Melhed can always take a bite out of Fronen. With their recent experience against the might of Thalmarkin it should be childsplay for them.
-
Thalmarkin steam-rolled Melhed's army in Bil Havil and scored a huge victory. Queen Maya sought a cease-fire with King Fingolfin to discuss terms of peace. Upon agreeing on a general framework, the cease fire was signed and it appears the armies are heading home, leaving the King and Queen to negotiate in Bil Havil.
To add a bit more info to what's already been said: Melhed will give up all of Agyr duchy minus Tepmona for Thalmarkin to found a new realm in which will be a recreation of Ar Agyr.
Ah, ok, thanks. I don't have a character on Bel, but it's still interesting following what happens.
-
And there goes the prospect for peace. Melhed doesn't really understand what a crushing defeat means it seems.
-
And there goes the prospect for peace. Melhed doesn't really understand what a crushing defeat means it seems.
Apparently not. Either that or they have self-respect. Hard to say.
-
Self-respect or arrogance? Hard to say. ;)
-
Apparently not. Either that or they have self-respect. Hard to say.
But no survival instinct.
-
Sigh. Good thing we had time to refit and pick up siege engines.
-
Melhed just turned into a !@#$show. Lovin' it.
-
Melhed just turned into a !@#$show. Lovin' it.
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6242114048/hDDEA9D0C/)
-
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6242114048/hDDEA9D0C/)
^ Perfect ^
Also, whose genius idea was it to drag Kalixta into a public debate for the realm's future? Maya must be HATING that person right now... ::)
-
^ Perfect ^
Also, whose genius idea was it to drag Kalixta into a public debate for the realm's future? Maya must be HATING that person right now... ::)
Meanwhile, Guillaume's just sitting in a corner quietly, praying for this mess to get settled as quickly as possible so that action may be taken against Riombara. ;D
-
I was just hoping that Kalixta would come to Lastfell to participate on the discussion...
-
While I always haaaaaaate missing any RP opportunity, Kalixta didn't have any choice in this case. She also did not know that the Queen herself would be staying behind to negotiate face to face.
All things considered, it's probably better for everyone that Kalixta was not around for that. No need to throw napalm on cooling coals :P
-
Heh. Well Baron Immanuel actually offered to marry Kalixta in the place of Duke Outo. Unfortunately that was the point where General Enzo threatened bloody retribution til the end of time on anyone who married her :p
-
Heh. Well Baron Immanuel actually offered to marry Kalixta in the place of Duke Outo. Unfortunately that was the point where General Enzo threatened bloody retribution til the end of time on anyone who married her :p
say wut?
-
I think its something to do with that execution... nothing personal :p
-
Queen Maya and King Fingolfin have signed the Treaty of Unger yesterday. It reads as follows:
By the signing of the following treaty, the Thalmarkin-Melhed war comes to an end.
- Melhed cedes the duchy of Agyr (except for Tempona and Bisana) to Thalmarkin. The regions joining Thalmarkin shall consist in Agyr, Hopidrii, Gor Ault, Rengo and Bil Havil. The regions will join Thalmarkin within two weeks from the signing of this treaty. The duchy shall join Thalmarkin by the Duke/Duchess swearing allegiance to Thalmarkin and thereafter stepping down from her Ducal position. All Lords shall have evacuated their Lordships before the Duchy swears allegiance to Thalmarkin.
- Thalmarkin will from these regions create a new realm to be ruled by Duke Outo Olavi. The new realm shall decide its own future, but start its life at peace with the signatories of this treaty. The realm shall be created at the timing of Thalmarkins convenience.
- Thalmarkin and Melhed returns to a state of peace, and shall both work for improving relations after the end of the war.
- Melhed will drop all claims on the regions north and west of the great river.
- Melhed will be allowed to keep Tepmona as a token of future friendship between Thalmarkin and Melhed.
- Melhed will return the Brilliant Sword of Unlife to Thalmarkin upon its finding, and the Brilliant Ring of Ice shall be turned over within two weeks from the signing of this treaty.
- The charges of crimes commited by Priest Yeux, Lady Kalixta and Queen Maya are dropped as a token of future friendship between Thalmarkin and Melhed.
Thus ends the War of Ice and Sun.
-
Rebellion in Melhed (just in)
A rebellion is breaking out in Melhed. Earlier today, Claudius Germanicus Claudius Germanicus Augustus has called for an uprising against the current government. Details are still sketchy.
Or not yet?
-
;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Oh well... at least everyone knows what the rebellion is all about now. :)
I wonder what would happen if we moved into Agyr. o:)
-
Rebellion in Melhed (just in)
A rebellion is breaking out in Melhed. Earlier today, Claudius Germanicus Claudius Germanicus Augustus has called for an uprising against the current government. Details are still sketchy.
Or not yet?
Maya basically dared her critics to rebel. Guess they were listening!
-
Loving the way you're doing the capital move. The whole exodus. It's great to see such an important and unique event be RP'd properly.
This is bound to become another major event in Melhed's history, if anyone is still bothering to keep the Agyrian Academy running (guess you'll have to move that too). :)
-
True. Maya earned the respect of everyone lately :) Except from some melites...
-
OO is getting restless.. pack, unpack, pack, unpack, pack...
8)
-
Why have a vote to decide on realm matters when you can seal the deal by rebellion? :P
-
Why have a vote to decide on realm matters when you can seal the deal by rebellion? :P
In Melhed we go hard, go hard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaRUjzzVnxc
-
I think its something to do with that execution... nothing personal :p
Enzo loves his warriors dearly, and Kuvio was a fine one. :'(
So is this war actually over or not? I want to get to the water cooler chat but it sure looks to Thalmarkin like we're going to have to go back for round 2.
-
Oh it's over all right. Kalixta is just waiting for Maya to transfer the capital from Agyr so that she can do a full duchy switch.
-
So... round 2 or...?
-
Oh it's over all right. Kalixta is just waiting for Maya to transfer the capital from Agyr so that she can do a full duchy switch.
I think he's talking about the fact that Thal seems pissed at the state of the regions they are getting handed over.
-
*Smashes your car's windows.* GIVE ME YOUR CAR!
HEY WHY THE !@#$ DOES THIS CAR HAVE NO WINDOWS!!!
-
I think he's talking about the fact that Thal seems pissed at the state of the regions they are getting handed over.
Maya can't decide whether to be mad at Kalixta for bringing down Agyr with her, or at the Thals for crying that their shiny new duchy isn't shiny enough. Maybe she'll just eat some ice cream about it.
-
I think he's talking about the fact that Thal seems pissed at the state of the regions they are getting handed over.
They are the ones who looted them so how pissed can they be?
-
*Smashes your car's windows.* GIVE ME YOUR CAR!
HEY WHY THE !@#$ DOES THIS CAR HAVE NO WINDOWS!!!
This made me laugh. :D
-
*Smashes your car's windows.* GIVE ME YOUR CAR!
HEY WHY THE !@#$ DOES THIS CAR HAVE NO WINDOWS!!!
;D
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IKvVIE3xMlE
-
They are the ones who looted them so how pissed can they be?
Really? We didn't loot all their regions. Melhed pissed Thal again like they can survive another attack or sth.
-
We didnt make much of damage to Agyr duchy, for a reason...
OO is about flipout...
-
This was just a riddiculous attempt of being spitefull. By doing this Melhed has guaranteed 2 pissed off neighbour at the cost of 1-2 months tax-income. Due to the treaty there would have been no war with Melhed from any of these realms for much longer than such. So, they have not really made the "enemy" weaker, just delayed their ability to make war, which has minimum effect to anything.
The other choice, to leave the regions unharmed, would have granted them two peacefull neighbours and chances of really good relations to Ar Agyr in the long term. This would have put some danger to Melhed sure. But, if we wanted to kill Melhed, we would already have done it. So, we actually dont want to kill Melhed, but they are doing all they can to provoke it.
And well yes, it might be harsh demands to request intact and fully functional duchy, but it was either that or all of Melhed. We were generous! ;D
-
Yaaay it's Round 2!
-
And this time it will end to knockout!
-jaune
-
Round 2.
We learn with our mistakes, I surely learned something :)
-
Ha wait, are you guys for real? You get Agyr according to the peace terms, but its a bit messed up because of a renegade duchess, so you want to war the realm that just gutted itself for peace? It's understandable to be sore losers, but whiny winners... that's something special.
Good luck getting anyone to trust you for a peace in the future if you war a realm in sickbay.
-
It just doesnt make any sense what Kalixta did. She just peed on everybody's cerials... mostly to OO's and Melheds. There was clear line where both realms work to build good relations.... destroying all buildings from those regions surely aint working for good relations, as well as stalling stepping down.
If someone is blamed for this, it is Kalixta... who will suffer from it? She and Melhed. She betrayed you, not Thalmarkin.
-
Ha wait, are you guys for real? You get Agyr according to the peace terms, but its a bit messed up because of a renegade duchess, so you want to war the realm that just gutted itself for peace? It's understandable to be sore losers, but whiny winners... that's something special.
Good luck getting anyone to trust you for a peace in the future if you war a realm in sickbay.
Maybe pick a better duchess then next time.
-
Who is whining?
I am disappointed. I was really expecting a different end.
When Maya said she wanted to sign a treaty it was implicit and explicit that she didn't want the regions to be destroyed.
It seems to me now, that she was only gaining time to complete the destruction.
I expected something different after all talks. That's all. To destroy everything is just so childish... *If I can't have it, nobody will!*
-
It's a valuable strategy... in preparation of war.
-
I must say I'm surprised as well... Thalmarkin gets fully populated regions, including their enemy's capital, and throw a hissy fit that there's not enough infrastructure? I've never seen a realm concede as much as Melhed after so little fighting... almost all prefer to die trying. Sacking the RCs also wasn't against the treaty...
-
Melhed has a long history of unique surrenders, both surrendering themselves and bringing others to heel.
-
Sacking the RCs also wasn't against the treaty...
Yes it is, it is not working to better relations, it is pissing off future owner of regions.
-
I must say I'm surprised as well... Thalmarkin gets fully populated regions, including their enemy's capital, and throw a hissy fit that there's not enough infrastructure? I've never seen a realm concede as much as Melhed after so little fighting... almost all prefer to die trying. Sacking the RCs also wasn't against the treaty...
It was either that or just kill Melhed completly. It would take some time, but we were certainly prepared to do it. The only thing Melhed could have done is protect one of the cities, which in time would have caused it to starve to death.
Sure, Thalmarkin is getting alot, but Melhed is keeping alot as well. And it was against the treaty in such way that Melhed will consider Thalmarkin and Ar Agyr enemies in the future, and Thalmarkin and Ar Agyr will consider Melhed an enemy also in the future. The idea was to bring the realms to peace and even more, but thats just not gonna happen.
But well, dont you worry, Thalmarkin shall be the gracious victor as always :)
-
I must say I'm surprised as well... Thalmarkin gets fully populated regions, including their enemy's capital, and throw a hissy fit that there's not enough infrastructure? I've never seen a realm concede as much as Melhed after so little fighting... almost all prefer to die trying. Sacking the RCs also wasn't against the treaty...
Right. Because a fully developed duchy - something we do not even have in thal - is exactly the same as a duchy deliberately and maliciously stripped bare and made to starve. Around the negotiations table, such a duchy is in fact worth exactly as much as the other. ::)
The state they're in now would've been the state we would've taken the regions in through a war that would've devastated many more of Melhed. Signing peace was thus the smart move for them compared to all the stubborn idiots who drool at the thought of a "heroic last stand" and the smart move for us, compared to all the stubborn idiots who orgasm at the thought of crushing that last "heroic" stand. Yet for us now, the result wouldn't have been so different except that we'd have had to fight an enjoyable war a little longer.
Yes it is, it is not working to better relations, it is pissing off future owner of regions.
Lawyered the lawyer.
-
Right. Because a fully developed duchy - something we do not even have in thal - is exactly the same as a duchy deliberately and maliciously stripped bare and made to starve. Around the negotiations table, such a duchy is in fact worth exactly as much as the other. ::)
The state they're in now would've been the state we would've taken the regions in through a war that would've devastated many more of Melhed. Signing peace was thus the smart move for them compared to all the stubborn idiots who drool at the thought of a "heroic last stand" and the smart move for us, compared to all the stubborn idiots who orgasm at the thought of crushing that last "heroic" stand. Yet for us now, the result wouldn't have been so different except that we'd have had to fight an enjoyable war a little longer.
If there's starvation, it's damage is minimal. Melhed could have damaged those regions a hell of a lot more. I'm also pretty sure the starvation is probably mostly accidental, with all of your armies and region revolts, plus some of the bugs, keeping regions fed has been quite troublesome...
-
If there's starvation, it's damage is minimal. Melhed could have damaged those regions a hell of a lot more. I'm also pretty sure the starvation is probably mostly accidental, with all of your armies and region revolts, plus some of the bugs, keeping regions fed has been quite troublesome...
This is a joke right?
-
This is a joke right?
No, not really. I know for Tepmona, there was a bug that made sure that the region couldn't stay fed no matter how much food we sold it. And that food's been a problem a bit all-around. RCs are obviously intentional, but I don't think I heard anyone claim they were intentionally starving the regions.
-
1. Starvation isn't at all the point. The point is the 10k gold or something necessary to rebuild the realm's infrastructure.
2. When Agyr joined us it had exactly 0 bushels. Doesn't sound accidental to me, though separately it could be forgiven as Melhed wished to retain it's food.
3. Starvation isn't at all the point.
-
I would really say starvation is the point.
-
No. Not at all.
-
What do you know? I'm the expert talking here. Starvation clearly is the point. You cannot deny it. It's so pointy it'll pierce right through you.
-
The point is that they harmed intentionally those regions. They didnt want to have good start with new realm and they wanted to pissoff Thalmarkin.
That is the actual point why i'm pissed and why Thalmarkin is pissed.
-
What do you know? I'm the expert talking here. Starvation clearly is the point. You cannot deny it. It's so pointy it'll pierce right through you.
*insert Ethiopian joke here*
-
Did you guys destroy the Immortals ?
-
Did you guys destroy the Immortals ?
God no.
-
2. When Agyr joined us it had exactly 0 bushels. Doesn't sound accidental to me, though separately it could be forgiven as Melhed wished to retain it's food.
Of course, Kalixta DID buy a weeks worth of food once she got access to Thalmarkin markets. Ya'll are whining over the "damage" she caused to the duchy...what damage is that exactly? The regions are healthy, fully populated, and rich. Thalmarkin built and rebuilt something like 5 RC's in the 2 turns Kalixta was there. IG it makes a whole lot of sense to strip the RC's. I mean, no matter the rhetoric for peace, if Ar-Agyr ever declared war on Melhed, why oh why would we let them use our own RC's against us? Nopenopenope and nope. I heard a lot about the "spirit" of the treaty. Talk of future friendship was a bunch of crap, it was an ultimatum demanding utter submission now and forever and nothing less. I'm trying to figure out why there's so much surprise.
And that's to say nothing of the disgraceful manner in which many Thal players comported themselves. I'd never seen anything like that in BM. I was astounded, both OOC and IG.
-
heh, i got 4 etiquette issues :)
My chars overall are known to be not so noble on their talks... but gotta admit, OO went overboard on this one.
apologies OOCly, not IC :)
The surprice of this was, because atleast i was naive and really thought and hoped to have good start with Melhed.
-Jaune
-
The surprice of this was, because atleast i was naive and really thought and hoped to have good start with Melhed.
-Jaune
^This and that I expected something different as a change. To destroy everything is just what everybody does. Would be nice to have a different story to tell.
-
Jaune's characters tend to be honorable to a fault. It's also always about the spirit of the treaty and not the wording with his characters.
-
apologies OOCly, not IC :)
The surprice of this was, because atleast i was naive and really thought and hoped to have good start with Melhed.
-Jaune
I'll take that, thanks! In addition, Kalixta was contacted by several other Thal's stating that while what was going on was not normal, they do cultivate a more "gung-ho" culture.
In regards to starting good relations, come on, really? If all ya'll wanted were better relations, we could have had tea parties instead of wars. "Give us your richest duchy, nevermind that it's your capital, as payment for daring to resist our invasion launched because we wanted to do exactly that in the first place" is not the best way to start. In fact, it was probably the very worst way.
-
Do you have any clue about history between Thalmarkin and Melhed?
-Jaune
-
I'll take that, thanks! In addition, Kalixta was contacted by several other Thal's stating that while what was going on was not normal, they do cultivate a more "gung-ho" culture.
In regards to starting good relations, come on, really? If all ya'll wanted were better relations, we could have had tea parties instead of wars. "Give us your richest duchy, nevermind that it's your capital, as payment for daring to resist our invasion launched because we wanted to do exactly that in the first place" is not the best way to start. In fact, it was probably the very worst way.
Rule 1 of BM diplomacy: Do not antagonize those who have defeated you in a war without breaking a sweat. Thal let Melhed off the hook easy in comparison to most wars that occur these days. If you wanted a hostile Northern neighbor who has already beaten you once, you got it. Its just dumb to antagonize someone like that, what do you get out of it? Thal spends a little gold, but at the expense of diplomatic relations. Do you think Thalmarkin will ever trust Melhed again? No, they would be stupid to do so. Does Thal now have a Casus Belli to resume the war and rescind the charity already given to Melhed? Yes.
-
Do you have any clue about history between Thalmarkin and Melhed?
-Jaune
this message sums up the spirit of this thread.
The brash Thal reaction proves the paranoid Melites who wanted to scourge Agyr were correct in their fears. Maybe they fulfilled their own prophecy, I don't know. But Thal's extremely short fuse for anything not to their liking makes it seem like if it wasn't this, it might have been that Maya's hairdo or the color of the tablecloths.
And it's pretty astounding how the bulk of the thread is Thal players assuming they know what happened in Melhed surrounding Agyr. Are your wizards false clairvoyants or do you just like to make !@#$ up?
-
Rule 1 of BM diplomacy: Do not antagonize those who have defeated you in a war without breaking a sweat. Thal let Melhed off the hook easy in comparison to most wars that occur these days. If you wanted a hostile Northern neighbor who has already beaten you once, you got it. Its just dumb to antagonize someone like that, what do you get out of it? Thal spends a little gold, but at the expense of diplomatic relations. Do you think Thalmarkin will ever trust Melhed again? No, they would be stupid to do so. Does Thal now have a Casus Belli to resume the war and rescind the charity already given to Melhed? Yes.
I think you hit the nail on the head buddy. For Melhed not to use Kalixta as a scapegoat right now and blame it all on her and grovel at Fingolfin's wrinkly feet, would be a bad idea. very bad.
-
I really think we are not speaking same language here...
If you sign treaty and say certain things, it means... well should mean you stand behind your words. With that, you build trust on you and for your doings. Saying something and doing something else, will lead lack of trust. This works at real life too... atleast on the corner where i live.
-Jaune
-
this message sums up the spirit of this thread.
So here I was thinking... finally a melite who understands!
And then I read the rest.
So let's take a quick look at the actual history of Melhed-Thalmarkin relationships: alliance for 82/~84 months, war for 2/~84 months.
In my mind, the revival of good relations was not at all unthinkable and in fact started when Maya accepted the peace treaty..
.. And ended when Kalixta burnt our duchy to the ground.
-
So here I was thinking... finally a melite who understands!
And then I read the rest.
So let's take a quick look at the actual history of Melhed-Thalmarkin relationships: alliance for 82/~84 months, war for 2/~84 months (started by Thalmarkin for....reasons n stuff).
In my mind, the revival of good relations was not at all unthinkable (Because ya'll got exactly what ya'll set out to get, treaty n all) and in fact started when Maya accepted the peace treaty (which was totally designed to bridge the gap between the two warring peoples...not)...
.. And ended when Kalixta burnt our her duchy to the ground (only the shiny, melite bits).
Yes yes, how horrible it must seem from a Thal perspective. Simply awful. ::) If only Kalixta HAD starved all the regions of Agyr to nothing. At least then the whining would be validated by something. Really, ya'll should thank her for removing all traces of Melite influence. Of course, the Golden Palace is still there, but that's a minor detail.
End of the day, you have a whole new duchy, shiny from the clear-install she gave it, full of people, AND fed. It cost you a single battle and some gold. Why not just enjoy? It's done and gripping will help ya'll just as much as it helped Melhed.
-
Why would they want melite influence scrubbed? They're allies of DECADES/basically thalmarkins' entire existence! And before that, one of the founding influences of Thalmarkin were Ar Agyr, the realm that was based in Agyr prior to a long ago invasion and whose resurrection this war was about. Ar Agyr died in an invasion just after a war where most of the continent (Enweil, Riombara, and probably at least four other realms ranging across all ends of the continent) fought an Ar Agyr/Melhed alliance. They have a long history of close relations with Melhed.
I'd mention that some of those RCs might even be left over from Ar Agyr, but pretty sure Fronen (the first one that died prior to the second's founding) forced Melhed to destroy all their RCs and put a puppet king in charge, eventually allowing only weak (around 10/10/10) RCs to be frontline cannonfodder in one of their wars.
-
So here I was thinking... finally a melite who understands!
And then I read the rest.
So let's take a quick look at the actual history of Melhed-Thalmarkin relationships: alliance for 82/~84 months, war for 2/~84 months.
In my mind, the revival of good relations was not at all unthinkable and in fact started when Maya accepted the peace treaty..
.. And ended when Kalixta burnt our duchy to the ground.
What I meant to refer to was how dismissive Thal seems to be to anyone who doesn't share their views. Sorry if I doesn't fit party view that 'Melhed is bad', but the reality is this; Kalixta and Maya went from allies to frenemies at the drop of a dime. Kalixta stood between Maya and the rebels, and could have gone either way (though maybe JeV could elaborate on that). Maya was afraid to cross Kalixta at certain points. Remember that whole rebellion? You guys act like Melhed is one monolithic totality; it's not.
I understand there were elements in Thal that were opposed to peace terms, and some who liked the idea of a new north. Similarly, there were different factions at work in Melhed, and a lot of the old guard was not happy with Maya. The fact Thal got Agyr in such agreeable circumstances is something they seemed to forget quite easily.
At least that's how it looks from my position.
-
Why would they want melite influence scrubbed? They're allies of DECADES/basically thalmarkins' entire existence! And before that, one of the founding influences of Thalmarkin were Ar Agyr, the realm that was based in Agyr prior to a long ago invasion and whose resurrection this war was about. Ar Agyr died in an invasion just after a war where most of the continent (Enweil, Riombara, and probably at least four other realms ranging across all ends of the continent) fought an Ar Agyr/Melhed alliance. They have a long history of close relations with Melhed.
I'd mention that some of those RCs might even be left over from Ar Agyr, but pretty sure Fronen (the first one that died prior to the second's founding) forced Melhed to destroy all their RCs and put a puppet king in charge, eventually allowing only weak (around 10/10/10) RCs to be frontline cannonfodder in one of their wars.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks for weighing in! I'm not certain this is an appropriate place to get into RP stuff and why who did what. Suffices to say, though, that Kalixta felt justified, even vindicated. OOC I was aware of the history, but Kalixta only ever saw Thalmarkin as an enemy. It was a small, petty thing, sure. But after losing everything, it was also the only way she could hurt Thalmarkin. The bitterest pill for her, besides being banned from Melhed as well, is that even burning Agyr even that will be erased in a month or so.
-
The thing is, Melhed isn't in a spot where it is allowed to voice its gripes. Gripes will get you killed. Moan and complain all you want about how Thalmarkin has got this that and the other thing, but remember: You couldn't beat them with Agyr flying your banner, you definitely won't without it. Antagonizing a bigger neighbor with a solid hold on the region you occupy is a terrible thing to do. If you want to spite someone who just won a fairly one sided war against you, swallow it, or be prepared to pay up for it. The thing is, you don't have to like Thal's attitude, but Thal certainly has to like yours.
-
The thing is, Melhed isn't in a spot where it is allowed to voice its gripes. Gripes will get you killed. Moan and complain all you want about how Thalmarkin has got this that and the other thing, but remember: You couldn't beat them with Agyr flying your banner, you definitely won't without it. Antagonizing a bigger neighbor with a solid hold on the region you occupy is a terrible thing to do. If you want to spite someone who just won a fairly one sided war against you, swallow it, or be prepared to pay up for it. The thing is, you don't have to like Thal's attitude, but Thal certainly has to like yours.
It helps then that Kalixta acted independently. The blame cannot be laid on Melhed because Maya had no knowledge of what was happening until it was too late, only learning of the destruction just prior to Kalixta following the treaty and switching to Thalmarkin. Nor could she disciplin Kalixta for fear of alienating the rest of her subjects even further. Kalixta's actions have been disavowed as that of a rogue, which she now officially is, and she's been forbidden from returning to Melhed.
Ya'll should hunt her down instead. Make a special task force or something to bring the Red Witch to face Thal Justice ;D
-
It helps then that Kalixta acted independently. The blame cannot be laid on Melhed because Maya had no knowledge of what was happening until it was too late, only learning of the destruction just prior to Kalixta following the treaty and switching to Thalmarkin. Nor could she disciplin Kalixta for fear of alienating the rest of her subjects even further. Kalixta's actions have been disavowed as that of a rogue, which she now officially is, and she's been forbidden from returning to Melhed.
Ya'll should hunt her down instead. Make a special task force or something to bring the Red Witch to face Thal Justice ;D
Kalixta should totally go into hiding in OG and see if that starts a war.
-
Kalixta should totally go into hiding in OG and see if that starts a war.
Nah, there's no way that would work. OG and Thalmarkin are homies...
Just like Melhed was...
hmmm 8)
-
Ya'll should hunt her down instead. Make a special task force or something to bring the Red Witch to face Thal Justice ;D
It seems people are already on it :)
Nah, there's no way that would work. OG and Thalmarkin are homies...
Could become interesting, but doubt OG would do anything such...
-
Guys, lets be reasonable. Keep whatever that is happening IG. I have noticed most people are taking these too personally and OOC. Lets not spoil the fun for the others while you enjoy yours.
On another note, it is too boring keeping this realm at peace. Sorry Tandaros, i am not about to let this realm to be just another quiet realm like the rest. Heh. :p
-
Guys, lets be reasonable. Keep whatever that is happening IG. I have noticed most people are taking these too personally and OOC. Lets not spoil the fun for the others while you enjoy yours.
On another note, it is too boring keeping this realm at peace. Sorry Tandaros, i am not about to let this realm to be just another quiet realm like the rest. Heh. :p
If I know Tandaros at all, I am sure that he (?) ::) certainly doesn't want "just another quiet realm either. Go for it, whatever that may be!
-
On another note, it is too boring keeping this realm at peace. Sorry Tandaros, i am not about to let this realm to be just another quiet realm like the rest. Heh. :p
Have patience, padawan. It's a miracle Melhed has even survived. We can't exactly go picking a fight just yet with a flattened army and two regions that still need to get the Melite banner stuck in them.
Also, note all the roleplaying going on. I don't remember Melhed having this much RP when I first joined. Sooo it's not dead. Maya, Jupiter, Pavel and Saenkeo seem to be the main contributors right now, with a number of quiet people in the margins. Haven't heard from Johnny yet after the rebellion, now that I think of it...
If I know Tandaros at all, I am sure that he (?) ::) certainly doesn't want "just another quiet realm either. Go for it, whatever that may be!
Yeah, I don't do quiet realms. If it's too quiet I find ways for characters to kick a hornet's nest. True story. D'Haran players know this about me. ;D
-
It helps then that Kalixta acted independently. The blame cannot be laid on Melhed because Maya had no knowledge of what was happening until it was too late, only learning of the destruction just prior to Kalixta following the treaty and switching to Thalmarkin. Nor could she disciplin Kalixta for fear of alienating the rest of her subjects even further. Kalixta's actions have been disavowed as that of a rogue, which she now officially is, and she's been forbidden from returning to Melhed.
That's not exactly how it works. A Queen is responsible for her vassals. It may feel unjust but with that spiteful act of Kalixta easily perceived as one of Melhed, it's a miracle that not more people in Thal have called for Melite blood. Though if Fingolfin hadn't arranged some sort of repayment and Maya hadn't been well... submissive, it could've gone a lot worse.
In other news: Bob the Honourable returns from exile to Agyr as it's new Margrave! The old order rises as the new is driven back!
Oh and Pyrix, slayer of the Overlord, succeeds his ancient rival Outo Olavi as Duke of Vore.. every day another miracle!
-
Heh, there has been quite a seat exchange going at Thallulandia :D
And few more to come.
-Jaune
-
Yeah, two days ago we had... 2 duchies, 2 margraveships plus 6-7 regions in need of lords :) The 3rd duchy got its new Duke and Margrave some 1-2 weeks ago. And there are 2-3 more regions that will change lords the coming weeks...
Stuff is really being switched around over here :)
-
And our awesome Duke send a awesome letter.
Jaune, you really should improve your ability to write nice :p
-
I really dont know how to write nice :D
I suck at english and especially with fancy words... It is much faster and easier to be harsh and nasty than cool and nice :)
-Jaune
-
I really dont know how to write nice :D
I suck at english and especially with fancy words... It is much faster and easier to be harsh and nasty than cool and nice :)
-Jaune
Can't wait to be your new neighbor ;)
edit: so go ahead and freakin secede already!
-
What's up with that 2.5k cs undead group in tepmona? And Kalixta, I'm coming for you! :P
-
I heard a little bird whispering of magic in Tepmona yesterday... I suppose its Kalixtas farewell-present to Melhed. :)
-
And those bloody rogues wounded OO :D Would have been perfect revenge from Kalixta if they would have killed OO :D
-Jaune
-
And those bloody rogues wounded OO :D Would have been perfect revenge from Kalixta if they would have killed OO :D
-Jaune
Now how can I do a proper RP if I don't even know OO is wounded? good thing it's been taking me so long to find the time to write one up... :P
-
Well, it is IC info to check characters on same region, i'm sure he saw report that there was battle at Tepmona? And thus soldiers and peasants there know future King of Ar Agyr got wounded.
-Jaune
-
Apparently the rouges of the region don't care enough about OO's future crown. I guess supernatural hunger born of an unnatural need to consume human flesh got in the way. Either that or the undead thought Kalixta shouldn't be "In the know"
-
RIP Henry Arundel II <3 <3
-
Yup, I'd say this thread is about done.
-
Wasnt there supposed to be some kind of sharing of strategies? I do remember Solari mentioning it some pages back.
-
Wasnt there supposed to be some kind of sharing of strategies? I do remember Solari mentioning it some pages back.
Yeah can we do this now?
-
Yeah can we do this now?
Sure. I'll write my POV later today.
In other news, Queen Maya gave birth to a healthy baby boy. All hail Prince Hector!
-
Sure. I'll write my POV later today.
In other news, Queen Maya gave birth to a healthy baby boy. All hail Prince Hector!
Where is this boy so that i can murder him to prevent him from rising? Haha :p
-
Where is this boy so that i can murder him to prevent him from rising? Haha :p
Why not just do a Red Wedding-esque birthday party for him?
-
Why not just do a Red Wedding-esque birthday party for him?
This. Nothing against Maya, but the child's lineage is tainted. It must die.
-
Maya can always move to Thal. We will certainly make room for her and her child. :p
But I also want Solari's explanations...
-
Where is this boy so that i can murder him to prevent him from rising? Haha :p
This. Nothing against Maya, but the child's lineage is tainted. It must die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBWrLhgiX74
Maya knows pretty much everyone wants this child dead. She has a creative plan in mind to protect him.
-
Maya knows pretty much everyone wants this child dead. She has a creative plan in mind to protect him.
For what it's worth, Red would probably kick someone's ass for hurting a baby. Any baby, in general.
-
^ this
-
For what it's worth, Red would probably kick someone's ass for hurting a baby. Any baby, in general.
No game of thrones style smashing a baby against a wall?
-
For what it's worth, Red would probably kick someone's ass for hurting a baby. Any baby, in general.
Who said we will kill a baby? We will wait for him to be old enough to not be baby before killing it. Haha
-
Dibs on eating the baby.
-
Dibs on eating the baby.
[Alitoth removes his mask, revealing he is in fact a DINGO]
[Audience gasps, devs shrug indifferently]
-
No game of thrones style smashing a baby against a wall?
Only if it's a Tanos. :P
Who said we will kill a baby? We will wait for him to be old enough to not be baby before killing it. Haha
See that's perfectly okay!
-
We don't die, we just become Saints.
Seriously though, you aren't being very faithful to medieval style role-playing. Sure, I am certain many frowned on harming children, but many of those same would still end a child to bring the fall of a potential dynasty.
Nothing against Maya per se. Just the choice of who she sleeps with. =P
-
Seriously though, you aren't being very faithful to medieval style role-playing. Sure, I am certain many frowned on harming children, but many of those same would still end a child to bring the fall of a potential dynasty.
So how is he being unfaithful to 'SMA' if you admit there were likely such differences of ethical perspective anyway?
-
BM itself isn't really rigid in terms of bloodlines anyways. King dies, new king from a different family gets elected. The newbie character the player of the dead king made doesn't even have the prestige necessary to become ruler. In the context of BM, there is no reason to kill a baby other than to be shocking and edgy; nobody's gonna give him a crown no matter whose vagoo he crawled out of.
Anyways, Red's a Cavalier. And there's a lot more to medieval-style roleplay than Game of Thrones (My opinion of which, in case you missed it in various and sundry other threads, is and always has been "!@#$ Game of Thrones").
-
We don't die, we just become Saints.
Seriously though, you aren't being very faithful to medieval style role-playing. Sure, I am certain many frowned on harming children, but many of those same would still end a child to bring the fall of a potential dynasty.
Nothing against Maya per se. Just the choice of who she sleeps with. =P
This isn't an SMA continent anyways...
-
I don't use the term "SMA". That's a BM-created thing. I'm a roleplayer. Which means I expect people to at least attempt to reasonably roleplay.
-
I don't use the term "SMA". That's a BM-created thing. I'm a roleplayer. Which means I expect people to at least attempt to outdo HBO.
Fixed.
Quit telling me how to play my characters.
-
Yes... Because I used one example from Game of Thrones?
Hate to break it to you, but I've been roleplaying since before the first book was published, both medieval/fantasy and sci-fi.
Honestly, I wish Tom did allow for more Might & Fealty-style pairings and lineages. Add claims to it (with claims equating to a few more 'votes' in elections for positions) and we'd truly have some interesting changes in the game. As well as people more willing to do what it takes to end rival lineages.
Rather than pansies believing there truly were "knights in shining armor".
I play priests and I know that's a bunch of bull. :p
-
You don't even have a character in Thalmarkin or Melhed so you can GTFO. Even in your beloved dragon incest books there were important nobles who were against the murder of children regardless of the political consequences.
Edit for everyone else: One of the things we did to !@#$ with Melhed was to strike our banners so that on scout reports you could never tell which army was coming. We'd all ride under Eagle banners or Wolf banners alternatively. I dunno how effective that really was in the end but it was a fun plan.
Moderator note: Flame/troll removed. Warning issued. Keep it clean.
-
Tone the hostility down, Marlboro.
-
Less personal snappy comeback. Note relevant to Roleplay skills.
-
Hate to break it to you, but I've been roleplaying since before the first book was published, both medieval/fantasy and sci-fi.
Somebody call the Guinness Book of World Records and every renown medical professor in the world; we found the oldest human alive! Maybe this is the publicity stunt BM needs?
-
Whoops. Sorry about the delay re: strategychat. I'm on a train at the moment and will probably fall asleep shortly, so I'll pick the rest of this up tomorrow morning. For now, it will suffice to say that when the war started, Thalmarkin was low on gold, recruits, and lacking sound infrastructure. So it was decided pretty much immediately after Enzo took over that we'd systematically deprive Melhed of food, gold, and stability everywhere we could. Having more nobles but crappier RCs than your enemy works fine for a looting war. The longer the war went on, the stronger Thal got. If you continually loot someone and they don't devise a strategy to stop it or repair the damage quickly, the stress compounds and the gap between the two realms keeps growing. It's a tough hole to dig out from.
We used Qual and Lastfell—and their militia garrisons—as third and forth armies, respectively. Having equal mobile CS early on meant that 4K militia behind walls in either of those regions freed up 4K extra mobile CS to... You guessed it: loot. It also meant we could spare an extra 4K CS to join the 3-4K CS in the monster hunting army when Melhed started raiding in the north.
In general, I tried to ensure that there was always an active rotation of refitters and folks at the front. I loathe the battle-refit-battle-refit cycle that everyone falls into. It's hard not to, but if you can avoid it, you put your enemy under constant pressure. Mistakes get amplified. More opportunities can be exploited.
-
Somebody call the Guinness Book of World Records and every renown medical professor in the world; we found the oldest human alive! Maybe this is the publicity stunt BM needs?
No need to be an ass back. You know he meant the first ASOFAI book.
-
Whoops. Sorry about the delay re: strategychat. I'm on a train at the moment and will probably fall asleep shortly, so I'll pick the rest of this up tomorrow morning. For now, it will suffice to say that when the war started, Thalmarkin was low on gold, recruits, and lacking sound infrastructure. So it was decided pretty much immediately after Enzo took over that we'd systematically deprive Melhed of food, gold, and stability everywhere we could. Having more nobles but crappier RCs than your enemy works fine for a looting war. The longer the war went on, the stronger Thal got. If you continually loot someone and they don't devise a strategy to stop it or repair the damage quickly, the stress compounds and the gap between the two realms keeps growing. It's a tough hole to dig out from.
We used Qual and Lastfell—and their militia garrisons—as third and forth armies, respectively. Having equal mobile CS early on meant that 4K militia behind walls in either of those regions freed up 4K extra mobile CS to... You guessed it: loot. It also meant we could spare an extra 4K CS to join the 3-4K CS in the monster hunting army when Melhed started raiding in the north.
In general, I tried to ensure that there was always an active rotation of refitters and folks at the front. I loathe the battle-refit-battle-refit cycle that everyone falls into. It's hard not to, but if you can avoid it, you put your enemy under constant pressure. Mistakes get amplified. More opportunities can be exploited.
This, and the banner trick that Marlboro already told.
You forgot to say that having "the best army" was decisive. :)
-
Whoops. Sorry about the delay re: strategychat. I'm on a train at the moment and will probably fall asleep shortly, so I'll pick the rest of this up tomorrow morning. For now, it will suffice to say that when the war started, Thalmarkin was low on gold, recruits, and lacking sound infrastructure. So it was decided pretty much immediately after Enzo took over that we'd systematically deprive Melhed of food, gold, and stability everywhere we could. Having more nobles but crappier RCs than your enemy works fine for a looting war. The longer the war went on, the stronger Thal got. If you continually loot someone and they don't devise a strategy to stop it or repair the damage quickly, the stress compounds and the gap between the two realms keeps growing. It's a tough hole to dig out from.
We used Qual and Lastfell—and their militia garrisons—as third and forth armies, respectively. Having equal mobile CS early on meant that 4K militia behind walls in either of those regions freed up 4K extra mobile CS to... You guessed it: loot. It also meant we could spare an extra 4K CS to join the 3-4K CS in the monster hunting army when Melhed started raiding in the north.
In general, I tried to ensure that there was always an active rotation of refitters and folks at the front. I loathe the battle-refit-battle-refit cycle that everyone falls into. It's hard not to, but if you can avoid it, you put your enemy under constant pressure. Mistakes get amplified. More opportunities can be exploited.
Thank the devil you showed up before this thread got locked.
I'm crashing hard too, so I'll keep my response brief. Your constant pressure strategy worked wonders, and the uniform banners were definitely an interesting trick.
To be honest, the Melhed that talked a lot about war was not actually so good at war itself. The few people at the top who were banging the war drums dropped off their activity right after the war-dec. Our combined armies had a really rough time trying to repulse the constant attacks. Thal's greater number of nobles definitely helped with this. When we started out the war, we had the Blood Wolves and the Inner Guard (a defense/rogue-killing) army. The Inner Guard was basically me and a bunch of quasi-active courtiers and priests. It got disbanded soon enough and a new army called Dragonstrike was founded.
Maya was made marshal of Dragonstrike, and we sailed off and plundered the Thal north in an attempt to reciprocate the looting stratagem. It worked a little bit and gave us a nice thing to cheer about at home, but we were too spread out. At least we did some good damage to Sandefur. The Thal counterattack on Sandefur was pretty badass with Marc de Coivos and Maya holding off superior numbers. That was one of my favorite battles in my time in BM. Had an Alamo feel to it, amplified by Jaeger Guile's magic attack on Maya (and Marc too I think). This attack on Sandefur was known in Melite royal circles as 'Maya's honeymoon' since it was her first act as Queen, following her marriage to Yeux. He turned to focus on priest stuff after that.
At this point we started going through generals like crazy; government ministers and marshals were losing spirit. Levon Arrakis served for a bit then quit and paused. For some reason the idea to fold Dragonstrike into the Blood Wolves won out in the realm, and we basically only had one army then, which is probably why in the late game we failed horribly in facing the constant Thal attacks.
One thing I learned from this war was that despite Maya's best intentions to save Melhed, a lot of Melites didn't give her any respect for what was perceived as her selfish power-grab. To her, it was a selfless sacrifice - she wanted to see the war through, where no one else seemed to want to have that responsibility. She expected that if she lost, she'd be exiled and lose everything. Now, after the peace and rebellion, she sees every day of her reign as a blessing.
-
I still stick with my strategy of bringing the war to the thal's regions especially the exposed Vore on the west. But somehow I did not get enough support for that, or perhaps the Melhed members are just not interested in contributing...mostly in fact...
How will you guys react if we cross over to Qual and then burn down Vore? I would like to hear how you guys would had reacted to it.
I also suggested to send the whole army to the north of thal and do what thal is doing to us. To burn the food etc. After all, i believe we are much better equipped to fight this starving strategy, but once again i did not get any support. I am curious though why the members of Melhed are so reluctant to use an "unexpected" strategy. After all, I really do think we have nothing to lose and every surprise attack is an advantage to us. But somehow we ended defending on our lands and doing not much of a progress in the war.
On another note, i guess the flag change thing didn't really caught our attention, since we are so pre-occupied towards the end to repel anything thrown at us anyway. So, I don't think that actually affected the outcome in any way.
There were also some interesting quarrel between kalixta, pavel and madoc, but i believe the character of madoc took it too personally.
-
We tried to keep on eye Vore situation, atleast i was aware that Vore could be one to be sieged at some point. I had prepared it with keeping good amounts of gold and hours all the time so i could have recruited additional militia.
I would guess, you could have attacked there, but would have been driven out in few turns without causing too much damage...
We would have seen you coming pretty early and travel times for big army would have been pretty high. So total suprise attack to Vore would have been hard. We scouted border all the time.
-jaune
-
I still stick with my strategy of bringing the war to the thal's regions especially the exposed Vore on the west. But somehow I did not get enough support for that, or perhaps the Melhed members are just not interested in contributing...mostly in fact...
How will you guys react if we cross over to Qual and then burn down Vore? I would like to hear how you guys would had reacted to it.
Can't speak for Enzo but Red is a knight of Vore and would've been obligated to respond with his whole army, potentially ruining any ongoing tactics we were running at the time. Attacking Vore would've been the smartest move you could've made, and the fact that you never did was something of a running joke to those of us in the War Council. I don't know if it would've turned the tide of the war; Vore is a small city in the grand scheme of things. I maintain it would've been a big mess for us, though.
-
Can't speak for Enzo but Red is a knight of Vore and would've been obligated to respond with his whole army, potentially ruining any ongoing tactics we were running at the time. Attacking Vore would've been the smartest move you could've made, and the fact that you never did was something of a running joke to those of us in the War Council. I don't know if it would've turned the tide of the war; Vore is a small city in the grand scheme of things. I maintain it would've been a big mess for us, though.
Yes, I have always felt since the biggest problem for the thals are golds, then we should ruin their cities. That's the best way to stop you guys from growing bigger with the army. In fact, i do think we will be able to defend from Vore - if we attacked it early enough when our strength reaches almost 20k.
-
To be honest, my assessment is that the fundamental flaw in the melite strategy was allowing Thal to dictate the field of battle and to let us make sure that almost every battle was fought on Melhed's soil. Fighting a massively destructive war on your own turf is never a good idea in the long run.
-
Apart from having a lot more nobles than Melhed, Thalmarkin also had a superior geographic strategic position. Walled regions like Lastfell and Qual were impenetrable, especially considering the active and good player base Thal's had. I am not sure which Thal's region you expect Melhed could've attacked, for Thal had borders in only two above mentioned regions, both filled with militia and easily reinforced by active mobile army. The only way Melhed could've dictated the war was amphibious landing, which Melhed tried, but if Melhed was to employ the all-out-attack strategy over the sea this would then open up the entire Melhedian hinterlands. And this is where number of nobles mattered again, for Thal could always easily spread out Melhed's limited numbers. Melhed never had a chance in the longterm, which is why I found it pointless to have Levon continuing exhausting myself (it was really tense with both time and planning, took more time than I had to invest) in a war that never could have been won for the above mentioned reasons. The war provided much interest though and the aftermath of the War of Ice and Sun is sure to have similar results.
-
To be honest, my assessment is that the fundamental flaw in the melite strategy was allowing Thal to dictate the field of battle and to let us make sure that almost every battle was fought on Melhed's soil. Fighting a massively destructive war on your own turf is never a good idea in the long run.
100% correct.Apart from having a lot more nobles than Melhed, Thalmarkin also had a superior geographic strategic position. Walled regions like Lastfell and Qual were impenetrable, especially considering the active and good player base Thal's had. I am not sure which Thal's region you expect Melhed could've attacked, for Thal had borders in only two above mentioned regions, both filled with militia and easily reinforced by active mobile army. The only way Melhed could've dictated the war was amphibious landing, which Melhed tried, but if Melhed was to employ the all-out-attack strategy over the sea this would then open up the entire Melhedian hinterlands. And this is where number of nobles mattered again, for Thal could always easily spread out Melhed's limited numbers. Melhed never had a chance in the longterm, which is why I found it pointless to have Levon continuing exhausting myself (it was really tense with both time and planning, took more time than I had to invest) in a war that never could have been won for the above mentioned reasons. The war provided much interest though and the aftermath of the War of Ice and Sun is sure to have similar results.
That's a part of why Maya sued for peace... the war was just exhausting to me. Trying to remind everyone just to scout and rally on time was a grim omen that we couldn't possibly win the war. The smashing defeat in Bil Havil where everything we had was decimated was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I still think the plan to merge all armies together wasn't the best idea. There was a lot of internal tension in Melhed's war council, particularly between Kalixta (who had all kinds of bold ideas, some realistic, some not), Pavel (who at one point kinda turned himself into the Melite viceroy) and Maya (who had little patience for military derping). If we were all on the same page, things mighta gone better for us, but there was generally a lot of disagreement and second-guessing.
-
Attacking Vore could be a good strategy but, I still remember how difficult it was for us to attack and takeover it and we had a good and active player count at that time as well.
One result of this war is that Maya earned the respect of Thalmarkin, or at least from many of us.
Another strategy of Red was to arrest all adventurers so you would have more monsters to deal with.
-
Attacking Vore would've been a disaster for Melhed, and I was cheering routinely for you guys to try it. You tried it once, I suspect, when you moved haphazardly into Qual. Sometimes, we'd sit in Orde and wait to see where you'd go. It's quicker for us to get to Lastfell or Qual from Orde than it is for you to get to either. And while Marvel got behind the lines occasionally to scout, he can't tell when we're misdirecting or traveling. and we misdirected an awful lot. If I had my druthers, we'd have misdirected every turn we weren't actually moving. That's a hard pace to keep up.
Let me give an example with numbers. You have 20K headed to Qual. Let's say they all arrive at the same time. A dubious proposition, but let's do it. Thalmarkin has 20K mobile total, to keep things interesting for this example. We also have 4K mobile in Qual (for most of the war, we had 5-6K) and Level 1 walls. 12K moves into Qual the turn before you arrive. 15-18K with the walls, you'll lose. Those folks from Thal will need to refit, sure, but at the same time, 8K is sent into Bil Havil to create mischief. THEY don't need to refit. We repeated this routine several times, from both Lastfell and Qual. In fact, this was the basis for the previous war plan, before the invasion.
-
Apart from having a lot more nobles than Melhed, Thalmarkin also had a superior geographic strategic position. Walled regions like Lastfell and Qual were impenetrable, especially considering the active and good player base Thal's had. I am not sure which Thal's region you expect Melhed could've attacked, for Thal had borders in only two above mentioned regions, both filled with militia and easily reinforced by active mobile army. The only way Melhed could've dictated the war was amphibious landing, which Melhed tried, but if Melhed was to employ the all-out-attack strategy over the sea this would then open up the entire Melhedian hinterlands. And this is where number of nobles mattered again, for Thal could always easily spread out Melhed's limited numbers. Melhed never had a chance in the longterm, which is why I found it pointless to have Levon continuing exhausting myself (it was really tense with both time and planning, took more time than I had to invest) in a war that never could have been won for the above mentioned reasons. The war provided much interest though and the aftermath of the War of Ice and Sun is sure to have similar results.
Arrakis and I have chatted about this on IRC in the past, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that I agree with his observations. Thalmarkin could've easily lost the war in the beginning, had Melhed been a little more prepared to move immediately. We were surprised by that.
-
Attacking Vore would've been a disaster for Melhed, and I was cheering routinely for you guys to try it. You tried it once, I suspect, when you moved haphazardly into Qual. Sometimes, we'd sit in Orde and wait to see where you'd go. It's quicker for us to get to Lastfell or Qual from Orde than it is for you to get to either. And while Marvel got behind the lines occasionally to scout, he can't tell when we're misdirecting or traveling. and we misdirected an awful lot. If I had my druthers, we'd have misdirected every turn we weren't actually moving. That's a hard pace to keep up.
Let me give an example with numbers. You have 20K headed to Qual. Let's say they all arrive at the same time. A dubious proposition, but let's do it. Thalmarkin has 20K mobile total, to keep things interesting for this example. We also have 4K mobile in Qual (for most of the war, we had 5-6K) and Level 1 walls. 12K moves into Qual the turn before you arrive. 15-18K with the walls, you'll lose. Those folks from Thal will need to refit, sure, but at the same time, 8K is sent into Bil Havil to create mischief. THEY don't need to refit. We repeated this routine several times, from both Lastfell and Qual. In fact, this was the basis for the previous war plan, before the invasion.
Yeah, I agree, going for Vore sounds nice on paper but the practicality of it was highly suspect. We'd lose a ton of strength pushing through Qual's fortificatons and militia, and once we got there, we'd be cut off from a retreat, or would go south through Fronen and risk pissing off the 'neutral' republic on our border.
On the note of Fronen, did Thal make some overtures to them to get them involved or keep them out? Maya tried to get them to declare on Thal in the late-game but they didn't seem to be interested, even though she offered up Fronepu if Melhed somehow got Unger.
-
Yeah, I agree, going for Vore sounds nice on paper but the practicality of it was highly suspect. We'd lose a ton of strength pushing through Qual's fortificatons and militia, and once we got there, we'd be cut off from a retreat, or would go south through Fronen and risk pissing off the 'neutral' republic on our border.
As for Vore, maybe Enzo has the right of it; I dunno. We often butted heads over strategy, though I like to think we made a pretty good team. Thankfully the other marshal wasn't near as insubordinate as I was.
On the note of Fronen, did Thal make some overtures to them to get them involved or keep them out? Maya tried to get them to declare on Thal in the late-game but they didn't seem to be interested, even though she offered up Fronepu if Melhed somehow got Unger.
Really? WOW. I can only guess that it was Fingolfin's legendary silver tongue that kept that bargain from working. I know they wanted to jump on the Thal bandwagon but we had to beat them off with sticks (Hehe beat them off).
-
Apart from having a lot more nobles than Melhed, Thalmarkin also had a superior geographic strategic position. Walled regions like Lastfell and Qual were impenetrable, especially considering the active and good player base Thal's had. I am not sure which Thal's region you expect Melhed could've attacked, for Thal had borders in only two above mentioned regions, both filled with militia and easily reinforced by active mobile army. The only way Melhed could've dictated the war was amphibious landing, which Melhed tried, but if Melhed was to employ the all-out-attack strategy over the sea this would then open up the entire Melhedian hinterlands. And this is where number of nobles mattered again, for Thal could always easily spread out Melhed's limited numbers. Melhed never had a chance in the longterm, which is why I found it pointless to have Levon continuing exhausting myself (it was really tense with both time and planning, took more time than I had to invest) in a war that never could have been won for the above mentioned reasons. The war provided much interest though and the aftermath of the War of Ice and Sun is sure to have similar results.
Vore= Deathtrap
Qual=Deathtrap
Lastfell= Deathtrap
Every time attack on these regions were announced, Kalixta said "NO" or "hmm...interesting...(stays silent and hopes the suicidal idea goes away." Vore was too far, even if we somehow managed to take it before huge militias were raised to stop us, we would have left all our lands horribly open for too little return. Of course, we would also have to get through Qual, a 2-3 turn trip with enemy defenses and militia on the other end and a full army not far off. Not to mention the prospect of a return trip. The Melite army would have had to return to Agyr anyway, and if the Thal's caught them retreating from the mountain, it would have been a bad time. Finally lastfell. Attacking lastfell would be dumb for too many reasons.
The only viable option for assault that Kalixta ever saw were naval ones, forcing Thal Armies to defend their own coastlines rather than attack our regions, but I severely underestimated the really fast travel times the Thals had through their own badland regions, thinking we would have time to consolidate when we saw Thal reprisals coming, but Solari moved a lot faster than expected and cleaned House. Even so, she was ready to continue the naval attack strategy, but then the Thals decided to press in, forcing her to instead redirect and protect the homeland instead of her massive intended raid (the whole army was already in the Mouth of Agyr and Queen Maya had actually already landed). From that point on, offensive action became impossible as Melhed was hemorrhaging nobles and CS. That the Thals chose to use two armies instead of one was a bit of a godsend, while it lasted. One army we could handle. Even defeated, we always forced them home to refit. Suffices to say that did not last long, culminating in the crushing example of the Slaughter at Bil Havil. The call had went out days prior to rally in Bil Havil and prepare to defend it. Only 8k CS showed up to do so, which should give some pretty smashing insight into what was going on within Melhed at the time.
Before that happened though, Kalixta had an idea: Why not let Fronen have Llongrel, Tepmona, and Bil Havil? Thus cutting off Thal means of invasion by land via diplomacy? She was convinced that if that happened, the Thal offensive would be stopped in its tracks and she could again focus on naval raids, which she was certain that even ThalMarkin did not have the gold or manpower to adequately defend or reciprocate. She was calling for it, loudly, but it did not happen in time.
There were also some definite leadership issues. I'll be the first to admit that I am not nearly as experienced as my Thalmarkin counterparts were, and that was certainly apparent throughout the war. Thalmarkin had the benefit of being mentally prepared for war with Melhed. On the other hand, the idea of war with Thalmarkin had been mostly academic for us. Plans were not in place, and with the recent rebellion, leadership certainly was not cemented. We went through a slew of Generals, Kalixta bearing the burden of shame for being the one to lose the war. Kalixta and Maya were always butting heads after Maya became Queen. Not jealousy mind you, but the delegation of authority. Maya was always sending out orders that countermanded Kalixta's intentions. I am not saying some of those orders were not spot on, I think one was at least, but the rest caused setbacks.
Of course, Thalmarkin having near 50 active nobles made a difference. I am certainly not faulting them for it, but I am looking forward to seeing ideas on how I could truly have fought them effectively, too.
And every moment those aforementioned regions were out of Fronen control; Kalixta could feel the shadow of the Thalmarkin juggernaught bearing down on her. Pressured to deliver results, sometimes she had no choice but to follow the Queen's lead. In private, however, she generally raised a !@#$ storm, leading to estrangement between the two alpha-minded women. Frankly, despite the fact that she loves Maya like a kid sister, Kalixta did/does feel Maya was an opportunist, whether she believes her own con or not, and apparently she wasn't alone. It tore Melhed apart from within, especially when the terms of the treaty were laid down and culminating in the sudden and ill-advised rebellion. But the war was over at that point and therefore have no bearing on this topic. Finally, believe it or not, there were financial issues. Kalixta sponsored all the active armies and saw to it each night had enough gold out of her own personal accounts. I really don't know how much other nobles put forward, but Kalixta spent at least 5k helping other nobles refit every week, leaving her with barely enough for herself. She had to keep asking Yeux for money, and when asked why Agyr did not have a harbor to facilitate Dragonstrike, well, the only person that ever gave her money was Yeux.
-
Of course, Thalmarkin having near 50 active nobles made a difference. I am certainly not faulting them for it, but I am looking forward to seeing ideas on how I could truly have fought them effectively, too.
Really don't think I could've put up a better defense than you did, but then again I'm a constant promoter of the Eagles of Hope being the best army in all the lands. Being on the business end of them would be terrifying. Most of the big mash-ups we had were Eagles rolling with a few support units from the Wolves. If you had the numbers advantage in a particular brawl, it was probably just the Eagles, like our merry chase past Fronepu and Mhed.
I still think shooting straight for Vore in a cohesive manner would've wreaked havoc. Yes, you would've paid a huge price for it, but you paid a huge price every time you fought us on your own land too. Maybe start by really sticking it to Qual, tearing down the grandfathered Palisades there to smooth the way for a bigger strike force. I dunno.
Sacking our badlands regions did about jack though. They were still busted up from the invasion, and Sandefur didn't even have walls or militia. We have rurals that produce more gold than that; it's basically the Cuidado Juarez of Thalmarkin.
You had really good refit times and did a great job of stopping us from pressing our advantages too far. Nobody can say you didn't fight well, and any strategies at this point are just clear in hindsight.
-
On the note of Fronen, did Thal make some overtures to them to get them involved or keep them out? Maya tried to get them to declare on Thal in the late-game but they didn't seem to be interested, even though she offered up Fronepu if Melhed somehow got Unger.
Fronen offered to join the war on Thalmarkin's side at the start. We even had a referendum but Thalmarkin told us to keep out. Melhed also did offer to return Fronepu to Fronen I think. I don't recall all the terms of the offer. However, joining Melhed's side didn't seem like a good idea and didn't have much support in the Senate (if any). I also think at that point we were already preparing to aid Enweil against Riombara. Riombara's war declaration didn't happen as quickly as we thought it would though.
-
Fronen offered to join the war on Thalmarkin's side at the start. We even had a referendum but Thalmarkin told us to keep out. Melhed also did offer to return Fronepu to Fronen I think. I don't recall all the terms of the offer. However, joining Melhed's side didn't seem like a good idea and didn't have much support in the Senate (if any). I also think at that point we were already preparing to aid Enweil against Riombara. Riombara's war declaration didn't happen as quickly as we thought it would though.
I think Fronen's neutrality might have actually been the greatest strategic failure of this war, tbh. If they joined either side it would have swayed things drastically and they could have got Fronepu back.
-
I bet if Fronen would have joined, especially Melheds side... Fingolfins golden tongue would have gotten them on deep trouble. War would have escalated pretty quickly.
-OO
-
Before that happened though, Kalixta had an idea: Why not let Fronen have Llongrel, Tepmona, and Bil Havil? Thus cutting off Thal means of invasion by land via diplomacy? She was convinced that if that happened, the Thal offensive would be stopped in its tracks and she could again focus on naval raids, which she was certain that even ThalMarkin did not have the gold or manpower to adequately defend or reciprocate. She was calling for it, loudly, but it did not happen in time.
Heh. That's pretty funny. Melhed (though I suppose you weren't part of it yet) tried the same thing during our war with Fronen before the invasion. You joined the war on our side to everyone's surprise, took Jyl, then signed peace and declared that no one was to travel through your regions. We ignored it of course. As we would anyone making such a ludicrous attempt to cockblock us.
It's kinda the same as a war declaration in terms of hostility but without the actual guts to declare war, making it pretty much their final bet. Which is why Fronen wouldn't have done something like this. They could've attacked us but it was far more likely that they'd attack you, we just succeeded in convincing them not to. Good thing Rio became a distraction soon enough though. :)
I'm a constant promoter of the Eagles of Hope being the best army in all the lands.
\o/
-
Sacking our badlands regions did about jack though. They were still busted up from the invasion, and Sandefur didn't even have walls or militia. We have rurals that produce more gold than that; it's basically the Cuidado Juarez of Thalmarkin.
Yeah, the long term of the raiding plan was to drive the regions rogue and/or destroy any RC's we find to limit your recruiting efforts, then actually return later and take regions over that would be too far for your refits to occur. THough Dragonstrike was only assigned a few nobles, it was theoretically doable. The great failing was me as a player. When I saw all those badlands between your capital and my targets, I was thinking in terms of Dwlight Badlands that take 2-3 days each to cross, as opposed to half a day. When I found that out, I felt it would just be better to role all my forces into one army to better coordinate defense against the Eagles or wolves respectively.
Up to that point, Kalixta had been hoping to at least hold out long enough for the diplomatic climate to change and put this war on hold for a time. A stalemate was the only sort of victory we might have hoped for, but it became clear that there were not enough diplomatic ways coming quickly enough to rock the boat. Knowing loss was inevitable, the game changed to making a good show, but activity was dropping off. I mean, who likes losing right? I am not sure if I can really blame them, but I can't really empathize either. Win or lose, it's all free honor and prestige to Kalixta.
And about that merry little romp ya'll had past Fronepu and Mhed? Ya, Kalixta was going to let you go. I knew we'd never catch the lot of you, although we did get one or two stragglers. She also knew that your numbers (maybe 8cs or so?) were not great enough to cause a huge amount of damage, not with the way ya'll were moving. Your discipline between looting and hoarding enough hours to move was amazing, btw. Instead, Kalixta wanted to Bring her army to Llongrel where she'd recently challenged one of your marshals to a duel after having discovered her and the Fronen doge cavorting in secret. She wanted to crush the Thal forces that remained there (about 4-5cs), sending them running back to Qual before bringing her army back to Tepmona or Rengo and wait for your raiding force to make a mistake, commit to a march into a region she could reach, then catch them and vanquish them at that time. The Queen, however, ordered that we give chase to your raiding party instead.
-
It's worth remembering that Fronen lost Vore to Thalmarkin prior to the last invasion.
I imagine that Melhed might just have been able to bribe Fronen into the war with the promise of Vore and Fronepu. Melhed could have either claimed Unger or, more realistically, their old regions north of the river. That way Thal would have been fighting two realms and wouldn't have been facing complete destruction either - which would have provided a greater incentive to give up the war and make peace than if Melhed had been gunning for leaving Thal only with Sandefur as a city.
Militarily, if Melhed had been able to get its act together I expect it could have started devastating Thal border regions and wiping out militia and shift the field of battle onto Thal turf - and the resultant war of attrition on Thal lands would have probably let Melhed win - but that would have relied on Melhed nobles being more active and working together better.
And that, from the sound of things, is something that was never going to happen to the extent necessary. Diplomacy was the only way Melhed could have won and even the odds of that happening were weighted against them.
-
Some points from my own point of view:
From the start it was kinda clear that Thalmarkin would be able to win, no matter the outcome of battles. The questions was how we would win. When the war started we had the armies of OG, Sint and Fronen at our backs, literally asking us to help us. We refused them since we wanted to fight this war on our own and settle the Thalmarkin-Melhed argument without questions. There was indeed some risks of irritating our allies for our quite harsh tone in telling them to not aid us, but this is what we wanted to do to boost Thalmarkin as its own realm and proclaim our dominance in the north. And well... to get a fun war ooc :)
In the war, as we decided to fight it, I saw loads of potential dangers. Firstly, Thalmarkin wasnt nearly as rich as Melhed and neither as we should have been at the beginning of the war. We literally (or very close to) emptied our reserves at each refit. One wasted battle with killed armies would have been hazardeous. As well, I also saw the danger of keep the Qual/Lastfell line in the case of a melite attack there. If the Thalmarkian armies are in Lastfell and Melhed in Bil Havil (which would be very probable after a melite misdirection (Bil Havil-> Lastfell), Melhed would be able to race Thalmarkin to Qual and beat us to it. (Lastfell-> Orde-> Qual is a terrible travel...). The sea-invasions could have done us some damage, but none of these regions was producing worthy gold (not even Sandefur), so at most it would be an inconvenience.
There was of course the danger of Fronen joining Melhed, but frankly I saw this as a very small possibility due to the Fronen-Thalmarkin relations that has been built since the end of the Fronen-war. Fronen has indeed had many rulers since then and the friendship may have come and gone with who is the current Doge, but overall the friendship was good. Also, Thalmarkin was pretty much the one holding back Old Grehk from taking Wudenkin during the war (though the invasion came at a time that made it impossible for Old Grehk). If Fronen had attacked Old Grehk it would have been an open goal for Old Grehk to march in and place its flag on Wudenkin. So, help from the outside was almost impossible for Melhed, unless it came from Enweil or Riombara (where the first could do nothing and the second has been a close friend of Thalmarkin). What could have happened would be a northern coalition against Thalmarkin with Sint, OG and Fronen all inside... but I dont really see that happening.
All in all I would say we managed to create a fun and possibly equal war out of a extremely one-sided situation. As well, yayy for Fingolfin! Wars against Undead, Fronen, Daimons and Melhed, and still no defeats! :p
-
Fingolfin Rocks! :D
-
If fronen help melhed two month ago, thalmarkin still win.. Fronen have small/weak army..
But not today.. We manage to enlarge our army, get better rc, more active noble and full population region (almost all) ..
We will see with new leader, what will happen..
-
Maybe Fronen will declared war on Melhed.. To take back fronepu from Melhed.. :-P
-
It's worth remembering that Fronen lost Vore to Thalmarkin prior to the last invasion.
I imagine that Melhed might just have been able to bribe Fronen into the war with the promise of Vore and Fronepu. Melhed could have either claimed Unger or, more realistically, their old regions north of the river. That way Thal would have been fighting two realms and wouldn't have been facing complete destruction either - which would have provided a greater incentive to give up the war and make peace than if Melhed had been gunning for leaving Thal only with Sandefur as a city.
Militarily, if Melhed had been able to get its act together I expect it could have started devastating Thal border regions and wiping out militia and shift the field of battle onto Thal turf - and the resultant war of attrition on Thal lands would have probably let Melhed win - but that would have relied on Melhed nobles being more active and working together better.
And that, from the sound of things, is something that was never going to happen to the extent necessary. Diplomacy was the only way Melhed could have won and even the odds of that happening were weighted against them.
Had Fronen gotten involved and sided with Melhed, Old Grehk would have gotten involved and sided with Thalmarkin. We only agreed to, reluctantly I might add, stay out of the Thal/Mel war provided it remained 1 on 1.
Melhed tried to entice OG to get involved in the later stages of the war, but really, there was no point for us to do so. There was also nothing put on the table for us to even consider turning on Thalmarkin which I might add has developed into a strong ally and true friend for OG. My character and Fingolfin have worked hard on creating that relationship between our realms, there would have to be a very damn good carrot dangling infront of us to get OG to turn on Thal :P
-
For what it's worth, since Noldorin has weighed in, and I know the opinion of several influentials in Thal from IRC (;P): I might have been the only person who thought Melhed could win this war. Fortunately, I'm also the only person ultimately responsible for wars. And so Enzo wins. Now, lemme go back to the rest of this thread and then I'll explain how Melhed could've won, IMO.
-
Had Fronen gotten involved and sided with Melhed, Old Grehk would have gotten involved and sided with Thalmarkin. We only agreed to, reluctantly I might add, stay out of the Thal/Mel war provided it remained 1 on 1.
Another point where I was definitely on the opposite side. NOBODY but me in the upper echelons of Thal's leadership wanted anything other than a 1v1 war. That's to their credit. Noldorin, Lorgan... I don't recall if Jaune wanted a 1v1 war or not, but I think so... they all strongly resisted my suggestion that we bury Melhed early in an 80K CS pile of hurt. Enzo even struck up a dialogue with the general of Fronen, offering them free intel on Melhed's army movements, to either sway them to our side (independent of any diplomacy—sorry Gondolin!) or to create enough doubt to sideline them.
-
So here's how Melhed could've (IMHO) won the war. This strategy would've had to have been executed from the beginning, when the fundamentals where more similar. We'll assume that both realms have 20K mobile CS from the start. We'll also assume that Melhed has a single army, and Thalmarkin has two (the third army didn't participate in battles south of Sandefur). So that's one army of 20K and two of 10K, which is basically how the war began.
I would've kept my force in a single army, because Thalmarkin enjoyed a healthy advantage in nobles but parity in CS until late in the war. One should always consult the statistics for self-reflection. I know that Melhed had several opportunities to spy on Unger, Vore, etc. You folks should've known we had virtually no militia. Subtract what you know from what you don't, and you've got our true fighting strength. I do this all the time. Melhed had something like 15-20K in militia, conservatively. From this, I could figure out your mobile strength for the next campaign. How? Because even though the stats are a week behind, it takes nearly that long to prep for war and get back to the front. Everyone should be doing this. It isn't cheating, and it isn't hard.
If I were Melhed, I would've immediately occupied Bil Havil. I noticed over the course of the war that Tepmona became the rally point. Some of Thal's commanders also saw the value in that. Still, I would've chosen Bil Havil, for the following reason: for Thalmarkin, it's a hell of a long way to Lloringel. With 20K massed on the border of Lastfell, a sane general would've never ordered a sortie down south. They might've misdirected and hoped that the enemy would take the bait, sure. But then everyone's refitting, and it's roughly the same distance from Lastfell to Unger as it is from Bil Havil to Agyr. A battle of hoarded resources (gold and recruits) fought early on would've been won by Melhed. If Melhed could've shown demonstrable progress in the war, it's likely that Fronen would've joined. But as Turner pointed out, Grehk would've ginned up ANY excuse to attack Fronen. I don't have much in the way of a strategy for that. It might've opened up other rifts, but who knows? Let's stick to what we know/actually happened.
With 20K in a single army, planted in BH, Melhed would've dictated the course of events early on. It doesn't guarantee victory, but as others have pointed out, it allows one to be the actor rather than the reactor. Instead, Melhed camped in Tepmona. I'd guess this is because of the perceived opportunity to strike at Vore. Vore should've been written off immediately, for the same reasons that Thal wrote off Fronepu. It's too far, and too risky. War in BM is a series of dice rolls, and you should always try to have the odds on your side. Roll enough, and you'll win. Very few wars are won in BM by a single battle.
So, with a single army in BH, I'd have done the same thing I did in Thal: misdirect like hell. Misdirect all day, every day. At every general's disposal is a tool that confuses everyone but a spy. It's free. It's easy. Use it. Then, when you decide to move, nobody's quite sure what you're actually doing. Generally, people discern a misdirection by looking at the stats and deciding whether the movement is stupid or not. Who cares?! We've all seen idiotic movements. Appear as though you're moving all the time and you throw 90% of the military brain trust of BM for a loop.
I'd have misdirected to Tepmona. To Lastfell. To Rengo. Etc, etc. And then, after a few days of seeing Thal's reaction, I'd commit to a course. Knowing me, I would've attacked Lastfell right away, for reasons I've mentioned above. Then we'd refit, and come back with roughly 20K, as Melhed did for awhile. And I'd occupy BH again. If Thalmarkin separated its armies, I'd punish them by attacking Lastfell a second time. One of their armies is refitting, and the other is almost certainly called back because a 20K-to-10K battle is brutal for the loser. The victor has the upper hand. I'd raze the walls for a half day and then fall back to refit. And then I'd come back to BH, and repeat the same strategy over and over, until Lastfell had no walls and I spied an opportunity to attack it again. Then I'd loot the hell out of it, the way Thal did with Melhed's rural regions. Except looting Lastfell to rogue would've been far more devastating for us, because our town was equal to a city in terms of income.
I'd appreciate some commentary at this point before proceeding with the rest of my imaginary plan. ;)
-
Richard used to be from Old Grehk and while he left angry, he and the Emperor patched things up later. Fronen would never have aided Melhed if Old Grehk wouldn't have agreed with it, the Alliance between Fronen and Old Grehk was Richard's highest priority (Hence why Fronen offered to aid Thalmarkin at first, it was easier diplomatically and would have offered a great low-risk practice in war). Melhed also had a bad diplomatic reputation after the Rebellion, so Richard was only just humouring Melhed in the beginning by not immediately rejecting them, figuring it would pay off some day. Maya did a lot of work on fixing Melhed's reputation though and Richard was interested to honestly listen in the end, but by then Fronen had already committed aid to Enweil. Richard would have never have come to Melhed's aid if he couldn't have convinced Old Grehk in the process though, which wasn't the likeliest thing. Would that have been possible, Nothoi was a possible candidate for aid for Melhed as well, at least under their previous Ruler.
That said, Richard didn't really care as long as he got Fronepu out of it without hurting relations with Old Grehk significantly, which was a challenge on its own if that meant aiding Melhed (And would have been 'You should have just accepted our aid, you silly Thalmarkians! See what happens when you refuse it!'-moment). Richard also wouldn't have committed without a more favourable agreement with Melhed in regards to the return of Fronepu then was initially proposed, since he was taking quite a risk on relations and figured he could milk the situation if he actually could have gotten Old Grehk's agreement (If not, he would never have accepted anything). And Melhed should have had a decent chance of course. Fronen's Army needed time and practice before it could become effective, which is why Richard was seeking conflict. Richard doubted Fronen's ability to change the outcome and figured all he was capable off was tipping the scales in Melhed's favour if they were able to stale-mate Thalmarkin on their own.
All in all, I believe it was highly unlikely. But Richard listened in the end on the thought of 'can't hurt to try and convince Old Grehk if needed', thinking Melhed was doing better against Thalmarkin then they were. Plan B would have been most likely an attempt to convince Old Grehk to aid Fronen against Melhed to take Fronepu back.
-
I think Richard's Plan B had more chance of winning OG over more than anything. Like I said, you would have to offer up something pretty big for OG to even consider betraying Thalmarkin 8)
-
Fingolfin might be a bit deluded by the friendship be built with Fronen, which (as it seems) has been reduced much more than he thinks with the many changes of ruler down there. IG (from Fingolfins point of view) there was never any real risks with Fronen joining Melhed, due to OG and the (believed) Thalmarkin-Fronen relations.
But still, if Fronen had wished to try something, that would have been a huge risk as well. To ask OG to help or at least not attack Fronen if Fronen attacked Thalmarkin, might have been enough to get OG against them (Fronen). Also, if Thalmarkin had found out about it (which is quite likely if OG refuses Fronens request), Thalmarkin would attack Fronen as soon as the Melhed-war was over.
(now that was a ridiculously written paragraph, but hope you understand it :p)
All in all, seems Fingolfin is sitting on higher horses than he ought to, but then again its deserved! :)
-
Well, if Thalmarkin had just accepted Fronen aid there wouldn't have been a problem! While Richard holds respect for King Fingolfin and has no ill will against Thalmarkin, this all went on under 'Well, they refused our aid and don't really care about us apparently'. Keep in mind that Richard is a relative new Noble in Beluaterra and doesn't have much knowledge about the whole past political scene. He hailed from Old Grehk, and believed the Alliance with them was the highest priority. But Richard believed to have pretty good relations with Old Grehk, he was convinced he could discuss the subject in private. Thalmarkin would have never heard about it unless Old Grehk would give Fronen some sort of protection in his eyes. And, of course, he wouldn't simply have approached Old Grehk by directly asking them the question, he knew it was a sensitive issue. And if Old Grehk rather wanted to attack Melhed instead (For Richard, it would have been most sweet to do WHILE the war was going on, just to annoy Thalmarkin. He believed you guys deserved a poke back for poking by refusing Fronen's aid, he had to push the whole thing through the Senate after all!), it never would have been openly discussed.
Keep in mind that this would never have happened if Melhed couldn't hold their own against Thalmarkin anyway. Richard was in no way willing to burn any bridges over this (Unless it involved sticking out his tongue to Thalmarkin, Richard wouldn't dare do anything more then that!), especially not with Old Grehk.
-
And also, some things ought to be said for Froepnu.
The idea from the start was to make this a 1 vs 1 war, for both IG and ooc reasons (being the Thalmarkian pride/eager to prove their superiority & for the ooc fun of an even war). The goal was also to create Ar Agyr for Jaune.
There were however also a secondary goal in giving (for free, without Fronen aiding) Froepnu to Fronen (+ som rurals), to further strengthen the bonds between Thalmarkin and Fronen. This would also even out the odds between Ar Agyr and Melhed which would consist of one duchy each. This would obviously not be accepted by Melhed and it would mean fighting until we have captured both Agyr and Froepnu, which would be very difficult even if we had practically won the war. At least it would have taken a long time.
As it turned out, with Melheds surrender, the easy thing was just to accept their surrender and forget about Froepnu and Fronen. I have no doubt this will come back and bite us in the ass sooner or later, either by a stronger Melhed or a Fronen who are not as happy as they could have been. But well, thats just more chances of fun future wars! :p
Another possibility would have been to kill Melhed, give Agyr and Mhed to Ar Agyr and Froepnu to Fronen. Fingolfin and at least Lorgan had a very strong alliance against this course of action, since we wanted Melhed to live. I think close to all other Thalmarkian nobles disagreed, but thats life :p
-
Well, if Thalmarkin had just accepted Fronen aid there wouldn't have been a problem! While Richard holds respect for King Fingolfin and has no ill will against Thalmarkin, this all went on under 'Well, they refused our aid and don't really care about us apparently'. Keep in mind that Richard is a relative new Noble in Beluaterra and doesn't have much knowledge about the whole past political scene. He hailed from Old Grehk, and believed the Alliance with them was the highest priority. But Richard believed to have pretty good relations with Old Grehk, he was convinced he could discuss the subject in private. Thalmarkin would have never heard about it unless Old Grehk would give Fronen some sort of protection in his eyes. And, of course, he wouldn't simply have approached Old Grehk by directly asking them the question, he knew it was a sensitive issue. And if Old Grehk rather wanted to attack Melhed instead (For Richard, it would have been most sweet to do WHILE the war was going on, just to annoy Thalmarkin. He believed you guys deserved a poke back for poking by refusing Fronen's aid, he had to push the whole thing through the Senate after all!), it never would have been openly discussed.
Hm, I had a feeling it would look like this, but didnt know people would take it so hard :) We quite harshly refused the aid of Sint, OG and Fronen, though with nice words...
Its not really possible for me to know what the relations are between other rulers and since the war with Melhed started it has been quite silent on the Ruler-discussions (for Thalmarkins part at least). I am quite sure that if Fronen had mentioned anything about such actions some 6 months ago Turner would have let me know. I like to think he still would have, but things might have changed... Not easy to know!
Keep in mind that this would never have happened if Melhed couldn't hold their own against Thalmarkin anyway. Richard was in no way willing to burn any bridges over this (Unless it involved sticking out his tongue to Thalmarkin, Richard wouldn't dare do anything more then that!), especially not with Old Grehk.
Hm this is not good! Thalmarkin is supposed to be the one people wants to keep on good terms with! :p
-
If Thalmarkin had give Fronepu, Richard would have been sold for sure. The issue was that Thalmarkin refused aid and therefore blocked Fronen, which wasn't nice from Richard's perspective (Though OOC, yeah, it was best to not give Thalmarkin even more aid, not that Fronen's military was considered to be very good at that point). He still doesn't hold any ill will against Thalmarkin throughout this (I believe he even stated that to Melhed), he just wanted to poke them back for blocking him and then forget about it all (Yeah, that would have worked well, I know).
And now we have Melhed moving their Capital to Fronepu and right next to Fronen. Richard wasn't happy with it.
Richard will be stepping down in a day or two though, which is why I'm openly telling this all. I wonder where Fronen will go under new leadership. Richard really just mostly did what he wanted to do and got Fronen to follow him. I believe the Senate only once spoke against Richard, and that was on Sigmund Baranof. There'll be a new Fronen when a new Doge is elected.
I am quite sure that if Fronen had mentioned anything about such actions some 6 months ago Turner would have let me know.
Richard doesn't really know the extent of the Thalmarkin - Old Grehk relations. But as an ex-Old Grehkian, he believed relations between Old Grehk and him were special and on another level and that he therefore could have gotten away with feeling them carefully on the subject without alerting Thalmarkin about it (He wouldn't have mentioned anything against Thalmarkin directly right away anyway).
-
Richard will be stepping down in a day or two though, which is why I'm openly telling this all. I wonder where Fronen will go under new leadership. Richard really just mostly did what he wanted to do and got Fronen to follow him. I believe the Senate only once spoke against Richard, and that was on Sigmund Baranof. There'll be a new Fronen when a new Doge is elected.
Crap... inconsistency sucks for relations :p I suppose that's what happens with some realms. Fingolfin has been King for almost 3 ooc years now. Turner has been king/emperor for 2-2,5 years. Now thats consistency!
-
Helps that Richard has had a supportive Duke. :)
Fronen would have a shorter memory of things than some realms...
There is only one other character who has been in Fronen longer than my character (Duke Yorick) and I joined Fronen after Mesh was destroyed in the 4th invasion. The majority have been in realm for less than a RL-year.
-
Helps that Richard has had a supportive Duke. :)
That is very true! That helped Richard a lot and he knows it. Why he wanted to add in the Constitution, as it allowed him to overrule the Senate through the Dukes. I just never got to it :/
-
Helps that Richard has had a supportive Duke. :)
Fronen would have a shorter memory of things than some realms...
There is only one other character who has been in Fronen longer than my character (Duke Yorick) and I joined Fronen after Mesh was destroyed in the 4th invasion. The majority have been in realm for less than a RL-year.
So, Duke Yorick will replace Doge Richard as the new Doge of Fronen?
-
Crap... inconsistency sucks for relations :p I suppose that's what happens with some realms. Fingolfin has been King for almost 3 ooc years now. Turner has been king/emperor for 2-2,5 years. Now thats consistency!
WOW its been that long already? ???
So Michael and Fingolfin are the oldies of the rulers on BT, geez :D
-
Crap... inconsistency sucks for relations :p I suppose that's what happens with some realms. Fingolfin has been King for almost 3 ooc years now. Turner has been king/emperor for 2-2,5 years. Now thats consistency!
Silly republics, master plans are for monarchs! ;)
-
We have a 100% King, a 100% Duke, and a 100% Priest. That's is consistency
Plus the most honored player in all BM
-
Plus the most honored player in all BM
Injustice!!!! And about me? ;)
Yeux is out for a month and he's still causing problems, as it seems. I did it well with Kalixta and May.
-
Injustice!!!! And about me? ;)
Yeux is out for a month and he's still causing problems, as it seems. I did it well with Kalixta and May.
;D
Remembers Kalixta's full name, forgets his wife's...
-
Richard will be stepping down in a day or two though, which is why I'm openly telling this all. I wonder where Fronen will go under new leadership. Richard really just mostly did what he wanted to do and got Fronen to follow him. I believe the Senate only once spoke against Richard, and that was on Sigmund Baranof. There'll be a new Fronen when a new Doge is elected.
I forgot to ask, why is Richard leaving??
I hope the new Doge whoever is elected will be as intelligent and level headed as Richard is :)
-
I'm really short on time for the Doge position and it was really getting to the point I couldn't keep up properly any more. Poor Melhed got the brunt of it really as I don't know how long our talks lasted. I had all the good intentions, but simply not the time. Now Marche can also be more active in Riombara when it comes to war strategy and tactics since I won't know what's going on on the other side and he can become High Chancellor again one day and grump at Old Grehk for attacking Riombara! ;D Besides, Richard always went to Beluaterra to reflect on what happened in Ibladesh. Now he's all done with that and ready to have some fun in the Far East. ;)
-
I'm really short on time for the Doge position and it was really getting to the point I couldn't keep up properly any more. Poor Melhed got the brunt of it really as I don't know how long our talks lasted. I had all the good intentions, but simply not the time. Now Marche can also be more active in Riombara when it comes to war strategy and tactics since I won't know what's going on on the other side and he can become High Chancellor again one day and grump at Old Grehk for attacking Riombara! ;D Besides, Richard always went to Beluaterra to reflect on what happened in Ibladesh. Now he's all done with that and ready to have some fun in the Far East. ;)
Too bad about Richard, my character had high hopes with him as Doge and with Fronen, hopefully it will be alright with the new Doge. Only time will tell :)
I think Marche or someone needs to mend the damage that Folcard caused, he after all destroyed the alliance and friendship between Old Grehk and Riombara. Maybe if the current leaders made overtures and attempts to mend the damage, things will be different. Thus far no attempts have been made. Maybe Marche is the one to do it! :)
-
;D
Remembers Kalixta's full name, forgets his wife's...
Is that suitable grounds for divorce? Or does an absent husband allow for an annulment?
Not like Maya cares, just wondering... ;)
-
Maybe if the current leaders made overtures and attempts to mend the damage, things will be different. Thus far no attempts have been made.
Dude, seriously?
I swear, it's like no one wants to even acknowledge that Liara exists...
-
Is that suitable grounds for divorce? Or does an absent husband allow for an annulment?
LOL. My fault. Yeux was devasted by a wave of powerful women. Shae, Kalixta, Maya... while Erik have them under his wings, Yeux was dominated by them.
-
LOL. My fault. Yeux was devasted by a wave of powerful women. Shae, Kalixta, Maya... while Erik have them under his wings, Yeux was dominated by them.
Were those listed in order of age, experience, or attractiveness? not that I particularly care, kalixta was right smack dab in the middle!
-
By order of destruction (influence), I think.
Shae convinced him to lead the rebellion, Kalixta convinced him to give her Agyr and Maya convinced him to make her Queen and give her an heir to the throne ;)
-
By order of destruction (influence), I think.
Shae convinced him to lead the rebellion, Kalixta convinced him to give her Agyr and Maya convinced him to make her Queen and give her an heir to the throne ;)
Oh yeah...sure...Maya convinced Yeux to give her an heir... ;)
-
Oh yeah...sure...Maya convinced Yeux to give her an heir...
Yeah... women... always convincing us to make babies!!!
-
Dude, seriously?
I swear, it's like no one wants to even acknowledge that Liara exists...
Take my word for it, it is the next best thing to impossible to improve your diplomatic standing after the previous ruler has gone out of his or her way to alienate the rest of the island. I was at the helm of Fronen during the Fifth invasion and for a good part of the war preceding the Fifth Invasion when Fronen was getting walloped by the rest of the North. New faces just don't mean anything to some people; they judge you by the actions of those who came before, and the enmity is already in place.
I managed to get Fingolfin to like me, but that's about it. It wasn't until the Fifth Invasion started and Old Grehk did some fairly questionable things to Fronen that I managed to start regaining some standing with everyone else, probably because they started feeling bad for us. Plus Old Grehk really started to look like a bunch of bullies when they did those things, and everyone sympathizes with a realm being bullied. Can you imagine Enweil attracting so many allies before the Fifth Invasion?
-
Take my word for it, it is the next best thing to impossible to improve your diplomatic standing after the previous ruler has gone out of his or her way to alienate the rest of the island.
Know that feel, bro.
-
Take my word for it, it is the next best thing to impossible to improve your diplomatic standing after the previous ruler has gone out of his or her way to alienate the rest of the island.
Oh, hey, I get that. I get that they have a hard time believing that Riombara is serious.
What really irritates me is the number of people who have said, "No one in Riombara has tried to negotiate/talk/make up/apologise," when Liara has done all of these things, first as ruler, and now (since Fronen's infiltrator kept stabbing her, then hopping on a ship in a borderline exploit) continuing as Ambassador.
-
What really irritates me is the number of people who have said, "No one in Riombara has tried to negotiate/talk/make up/apologise," when Liara has done all of these things, first as ruler, and now (since Fronen's infiltrator kept stabbing her, then hopping on a ship in a borderline exploit) continuing as Ambassador.
Well that's nice and all to say, but what are you really offering? From the outside, you appear to be continuing the same policies as your predecessor. I haven't heard anything different anyway, though that doesn't say much. All I know is that the war continues, and that that can only be because Riombara wants it to continue since I'm sure Enweil would just as soon agree to a cease fire without insisting on any conditions at all.
-
Well that's nice and all to say, but what are you really offering? From the outside, you appear to be continuing the same policies as your predecessor. I haven't heard anything different anyway, though that doesn't say much. All I know is that the war continues, and that that can only be because Riombara wants it to continue since I'm sure Enweil would just as soon agree to a cease fire without insisting on any conditions at all.
They are offering flowers to distract you while they keep on stabbing Enweil.
'cause really, there's no difference between Folcard's foreign politics and the foreign politics of the people who came before and after him. The others were just better at making others think that they were the nice guys in all of this.
Look at after the fourth Invasion: Enweil was again much more weakened than Rio, and Rio declared war for no reason, just like they did this time. They just weren't as openly jerks about it.
-
Enweil delenda est.
-
Enweil delenda est.
I totally did that for a while back in the days of my hate campaign against Enweil in OG.
Only took me about 2 years, including an invasion... Goddamn Vagabond. :)