So..how's everyone liking the war that has engulfed Atamara? Pretty much everyone is involved in some way or another and there have been some big shifts to even get the war going. Any predictions for the outcome?
Prediction: The war will continue, and Darka will help one side, and that side will win their conflict. The rest of the war will just be a (much needed) drain of gold and resources and not result in any real change.
Prediction: Carelia to be double-crossed by Caergoth and Suville when the war either drags on too long or Carelia starts losing. Would place money on it.
Prediction:
The Caligan Empire will be threatened with destruction and every realm fighting them will have 100 undead spawn in every region.
In related news, the Lich King no longer protects Outer Tilog.
Prediction: It's going to be a glorious, bloody mess and whichever side ends up winning is going to start fighting over the spoils in short order, possibly soon enough to let the losing side come back.
Quote from: Revan on March 02, 2011, 01:16:18 PM
Prediction: Carelia to be double-crossed by Caergoth and Suville when the war either drags on too long or Carelia starts losing. Would place money on it.
STARTS losing? By my count, they're already losing (with the obvious exception of buying Skalk). I'm waiting for the Carelians to get tired of their own conflict and turn against those who got them into this mess in order to settle their personal issues with the Empire. ;)
Send your Minions that I may lay waste to them before me!
I don't know what the result will be, but Atamara needs some major mix ups across the board. Too many big realms and consolidated territory, we need lots more smaller sized realms.
Well, Eston has four duchies. If three of them secede, we'd suddenly have three new realms on AT.
Nothing personal, but I see comments like "Too many big realms, we need more/smaller realms" all the time. What people really mean when they say that is that *everyone else* needs to give up some of their duchies to make more, smaller realms while we stay the same.
While I think that the CE is very competently played and there is a reason it dominated Atamara for years, they have simply maximized their advantage. There's very little margin for improvement in production or military capability. Carelia has hardly been known as a model of efficiency, so even marginal improvements go a long way. Several have been made. The CE must continue to perform at 100%. Carelia must simply continue to improve on the margins. I like their odds.
Quote from: Indirik on March 03, 2011, 02:19:50 PM
Nothing personal, but I see comments like "Too many big realms, we need more/smaller realms" all the time. What people really mean when they say that is that *everyone else* needs to give up some of their duchies to make more, smaller realms while we stay the same.
OK, so, when's Darka going to split up? ;D
You don't see me complaining about needing more, smaller realms, do you? 8)
I'm perfectly happy with there being larger realms.
Quote from: Indirik on March 03, 2011, 03:55:01 PM
You don't see me complaining about needing more, smaller realms, do you? 8)
I'm perfectly happy with there being larger realms.
Yes, they
have more to lootcan pay more. ;)
I favor smaller realms, generally... but really I just favor dynamism. I have no beef with big realms if they keep things in flux. But Atamara's big realms have basically been in stasis it seems like for as long as I've been playing. Eston has had some shakeups at various times, like when Darka took Massillion.... but Talerium and CE are virtually untouched. Tara's size doesn't bother me so much, because I can easily recall when they had 4 regions. But it will bother me in a few months, most likely.
To me, it's not a question of size, but time. CE's time has come. Talerium's time has come. Not necessarily to die, but to change their place on the continent. Carelia is changing its place, and if they are victorious they will continue to inhabit a new place as well.
Talerium could do something interesting (for the first time in the existence of that realm) and betray CE, for example. CE would begin to lose the war quite swiftly. Or Tara could betray CE. The Carelia/Suville/Caergoth alliance is already a deviation from old alliances, as is its alignment with Eston. I'd like to see other realms adapt as well.
Quote from: Indirik on March 03, 2011, 02:19:50 PM
Well, Eston has four duchies. If three of them secede, we'd suddenly have three new realms on AT.
Nothing personal, but I see comments like "Too many big realms, we need more/smaller realms" all the time. What people really mean when they say that is that *everyone else* needs to give up some of their duchies to make more, smaller realms while we stay the same.
Indeed, and you'll notice Eston just signed a controversial peace treaty with Coria when it almost *could* have tried to absorb the Duchy of Barad Falas. It did this with the intent of trying to turn the current war in the north from "Eston and Hammarsett trying to expand into Coria" to "Lets take the fight to the Cagilan Empire."
Or you could have forced the secession of Barad Gardor to split Coria in half.
The problem is that most realms are just highly entrenched, and the players in them are afraid of losing their power. I also hope for a huge shakeup. If a couple duchies could start emancipating themselves from some of the larger realms Atamara would become quite the interesting Island. As it is I just stick around because I really want to see CE finally see that E part become a misnomer. They have been a true Empire for far to long now ruling of Tara and Talerium, and essentially the diplomacy of all of southern Atamara.
Despite what many seem to think I'd consider the current war to be quite an large dynamics changer for Atamara. Much like when RedSpan/Abington fell. The Cagilan Empire/Tara/friends lost the enemy they had fought against for the past half a decade or something and that meant them finding new targets.
I don't think the Cagilan Empire will be the same after this and thus there will be change in the island. How much difference there will be depends on the resolve of the realms fighting against them.
Quote from: Perth on March 03, 2011, 11:12:31 PM
Indeed, and you'll notice Eston just signed a controversial peace treaty with Coria when it almost *could* have tried to absorb the Duchy of Barad Falas. It did this with the intent of trying to turn the current war in the north from "Eston and Hammarsett trying to expand into Coria" to "Lets take the fight to the Cagilan Empire."
Man, I
totally called this. I was just telling Bedwyr on IRC that this was the motive for what is, frankly, an awful treaty on the surface. I win the future.
Quote from: Revan on March 02, 2011, 01:16:18 PM
Prediction: Carelia to be double-crossed by Caergoth and Suville when the war either drags on too long or Carelia starts losing. Would place money on it.
If Carelia is losing then Caergoth and Suville are losing, too. The war doesn't belong to Carelia; it's just on their border. Caergoth and Suville are not the twins that they used to be, either. Geography is likely to give them common interest in the future, but their old Abington history, not so much.
Quote from: Igelfeld on March 04, 2011, 02:28:43 AM
The problem is that most realms are just highly entrenched, and the players in them are afraid of losing their power. I also hope for a huge shakeup. If a couple duchies could start emancipating themselves from some of the larger realms Atamara would become quite the interesting Island. As it is I just stick around because I really want to see CE finally see that E part become a misnomer. They have been a true Empire for far to long now ruling of Tara and Talerium, and essentially the diplomacy of all of southern Atamara.
Then shake things up.
I don't even remember seeing any report of "huge battles" going on. I know some northerners sieged someone's city, and that Minas Ithil has 2 fights or so, but that's about it as far as I know.
Hardly anything to get excited over. My predictions is that the wars will end before anything significant happens, at most a realm or two losing much grounds. Everything else will remain basically the same.
If you were a citizen of Coria, you would certainly think there's a war going on, with Darka, Eston, and the Barony all destroying your capital.
Nazgorn, Galadia, Barad Falas, Belegmon, Anfalas.
The problem, of course, is that we (Darka) want Coria to surrender before we go after CE.
Quote from: Igelfeld on March 06, 2011, 01:40:15 AM
You want to help?
Nah, I'm a Duke in a relatively safe space. (For now, not for long probably) I'm almost happy as it is, thought I would like to tear Hammersett to dust...
Quote from: WarMaid on March 05, 2011, 10:34:57 AM
If Carelia is losing then Caergoth and Suville are losing, too. The war doesn't belong to Carelia; it's just on their border. Caergoth and Suville are not the twins that they used to be, either. Geography is likely to give them common interest in the future, but their old Abington history, not so much.
I don't think they're twins, I think they're opportunists. Don't get me wrong, what Carelia is doing is audacious and if successful will certainly shake things up a bit. But if she's not successful, I reckon she'll be made to pay a heavy price for her failed ambition. They're fighting for land as much as Carelia is and they'll get it one way or another.
what you mean there is RISK to the war. Well that is something unusual for the average BM realm.
Quote from: Perth on March 03, 2011, 11:12:31 PM
Indeed, and you'll notice Eston just signed a controversial peace treaty with Coria
Well, you're right about it being controversial. That's about all its been good for :D
Quote from: LilWolf on March 07, 2011, 06:37:37 PM
Well, you're right about it being controversial. That's about all its been good for :D
Only controversial because Aldarion has Darka under his thumb and Hammarsett is greedy for land. :P
Quote from: Perth on March 07, 2011, 07:04:42 PM
Only controversial because Aldarion has Darka under his thumb and Hammarsett is greedy for land. :P
Meh, you got suckered into signing a really bad treaty by Coria. And in the process alienated the entire northern alliance. This is not going to end well...
Quote from: Indirik on March 07, 2011, 10:27:46 PM
Meh, you got suckered into signing a really bad treaty by Coria. And in the process alienated the entire northern alliance. This is not going to end well...
I didn't get suckered, I knew it would be controversial. Kerwin, however, believes he can secure a friendship with Coria and keep the northern alliance alive. It's proving difficult, but it may work. Again, if Darka would realize how much of a snake in the grass Talerium and Aldarion are like the rest of the continent does, things would be fine.
I must admit, I believe a greater amount of smaller realms would be beneficial to Atamara. More realms equal more government positions for people to have a go at, it also enables a more diverse politics rather than people getting entrenched in large solid alliances.
Personally, I'd support colonies, and in fact, Coria did support the foundation of Hammarsett. Ironically I very much doubt the two will ever have great relations with one another, despite the fact I'd prefer to see more colonies. Multiple fronts in a war can be devastating and if smaller realms stuck together more, and they surrounded a much larger realm trying to exert dominance over them, they could become giant killers.
And anyway, who is to say that the alliance between Coria and Eston won't spice things up in the future? People are complaining about the same sides always duking it out and things never being shaken up. How does Coria, a Cagilan colony, taking a step closer in friendship to the Northern realms not add the possibility for change in the future?
I think politics around the Great Lake are going to be pretty interesting after this War is over. After all, with the current alliances, there are going to be a lot of landlocked allies, friends one day, enemies the next as they say ;)
Quote from: Munro on March 07, 2011, 11:46:54 PM
And anyway, who is to say that the alliance between Coria and Eston won't spice things up in the future? People are complaining about the same sides always duking it out and things never being shaken up. How does Coria, a Cagilan colony, taking a step closer in friendship to the Northern realms not add the possibility for change in the future?
Because it's not "Cagilan colony moving closer to northerners" it's "Eston moving into Cagilan sphere", in effect if not in name. From everything I've heard the odds are much better of that than what you're describing. Which...Means that continued Cagilan dominance is more likely. Which means...Not changing politics.
Yeah, what Bedwyr said.
I heard someone remark the other day that, from jus reading the treaty and not knowing the situation, you'd think Coria won the war, and wasn't really forced to surrender. And indeed, if I was CE, I would be congratulating Coria on securing the northern border for the Empire. Because that's what the treaty does.
Quote from: Indirik on March 08, 2011, 02:56:15 AM
Yeah, what Bedwyr said.
I heard someone remark the other day that, from jus reading the treaty and not knowing the situation, you'd think Coria won the war, and wasn't really forced to surrender. And indeed, if I was CE, I would be congratulating Coria on securing the northern border for the Empire. Because that's what the treaty does.
Uh, yeah, that's partly the point. Kerwin did not want to force Coria into anything, certainly not an awful, punishing treaty. Like Munro and I have said, our characters are trying to forge a friendship between Eston and Coria. Kerwin did not want to force a painful treaty upon Coria and only grow resentment and sure up any Corian hate or resolve against Eston or the north.
Also, I'm not sure how you could say the treaty looks like Coria won. It certainly looks like the war was a lot more even sided, but I mean Coria surrenders a region to Eston... does that happen often in treaties for the winner? They give up a region? Even if a relatively unimportant one?
Nevertheless, we shall see what happens, I suppose. Maybe it'll go haywire and fall apart into war again or maybe not. I'm quite optimistic at this point, though.
Quote from: Perth on March 08, 2011, 08:36:20 AM
Uh, yeah, that's partly the point. Kerwin did not want to force Coria into anything, certainly not an awful, punishing treaty. Like Munro and I have said, our characters are trying to forge a friendship between Eston and Coria. Kerwin did not want to force a painful treaty upon Coria and only grow resentment and sure up any Corian hate or resolve against Eston or the north.
And doing it on Coria's terms, from everything I've seen. Especially since you decided to do those negotiations without involving the rest of the north.
Quote
Also, I'm not sure how you could say the treaty looks like Coria won. It certainly looks like the war was a lot more even sided, but I mean Coria surrenders a region to Eston... does that happen often in treaties for the winner? They give up a region? Even if a relatively unimportant one?
The copy of the treaty terms I saw (which was a while ago, may have been amended) essentially secured the Cagilan Empire's northern borders. Keeping the whole northern alliance from being able to go through without smashing through Talerium after they'd gone to all the work to break Coria. That is worth considerably more than a single region.
And yes, I'm mildly annoyed as Leta and my character Malcolm staked their careers and the entirety of Carelia on this war, and we were counting on the northern realms coming to assist, not getting sidetracked beating down Eston for selling them out for no apparent reason. Which is, in fact, what it looks like to everyone I've talked to from the north as well as everyone I've talked to in the south.
Surrendering regions - note the plural form - is a pretty standard clause in most surrender treaties. Many surrendering realms have had to give up multiple regions, sometimes an entire duchy.
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Well the war has certainly spiced things up in a world that had gone pretty stagnant. There are these large power blocks and nothing to fight over. No resources. We need the new economy side of the game set up so that realms have real needs and wants. I know that is no small task and highly complex to balance but it will add a lot more to needs and interactions between the realms. My biggest annoyance with the current war is a it seemed happen to a plan and that one set on in game reasons was quickly replaced by another set of in game reasons surprisingly quickly and conveniently.
The realms need more things to fight over.
I think one thing this new war has shown us is that certain realms that were once quite powerful military forces, have lost some significant skill through marshal and general turnover.
Really? Which realms? All I know is that Darka has historically been a good military realm.
Prediction: Tara will get off the damn fence. Eventually.
Quote from: squirrel on March 11, 2011, 04:42:50 AM
Prediction: Tara will get off the damn fence. Eventually.
Prediction: The fence between Tara and Carelia is about to be shattered with a battering ram.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 11, 2011, 04:55:54 AM
Prediction: The fence between Tara and Carelia is about to be shattered with a battering ram.
It's not a prediction when you have perpetrated the events! ;)
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 11, 2011, 04:55:54 AMPrediction: The fence between Tara and Carelia is about to be shattered with a battering ram.
Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! I have been praying for this for weeks. Months?
Quote from: Indirik on March 11, 2011, 05:21:41 PM
Oh please! Oh please! Oh please! I have been praying for this for weeks. Months?
And yet ironically, your own leaders have been trying to prevent this ;)
That's because they don't want me to have fun.
Quote from: Darksun on March 11, 2011, 02:04:03 PM
It's not a prediction when you have perpetrated the events! ;)
MetaBets says differently!
Too bad metabets went away before I started playing. :(
Wow...Y'all sure seem to complain a lot about a treaty that your realms had no reason to be able to influence. Coria fought a war against Eston, and Eston's allies joined in with them. Coria signs a peace treaty with Eston and Eston's allies should also then sign a peace treaty with Coria. Eston's the only realm that was at war with Coria that had any right to make demands of Coria.
At any rate, y'all are way wrong about Eston joining CE's sphere of influence. Kerwin knows quite clearly how much the word of Coria's leaders can be depended on. Coria and Eston growing closer in friendship and alliance is just one step in the entire upheaval of Atamara. It is easy to take a look at a peace treaty and think you know everything that is going on. Also, it is very easy to make up the thoughts of the leaders of many realms but unless you know why the diplomatic actions that are going on, you're just leaping to conclusions. I can guarantee you that things are going on in the background and stuff is shifting.
Anyway, Coria clearly lost the war, and Eston certainly gains more by making a friend than "trying" to assimilate the duchy of Barad Falas. Hammarsett being greedy and trying to take regions from Coria is the only thing slowing down the North's invasion of CE. Which I find quite amusing.
Want my prediction for this war? CE loses, simple as that. Unless some betrayals happen amongst one of the other two alliances (the non-CE ones) then it is bound to happen. However, if one of the two other alliances is broken up then the entire island will fall into chaos.
P.S. Whoever said the sword was mightier than the pen I invite to tell that to my Diplomat. ;)
I think the fact that I parked a 20,000 cs army in your capital for an entire week gives me some right to make demands.
Quote from: Indirik on March 12, 2011, 03:05:20 AM
I think the fact that I parked a 20,000 cs army in your capital for an entire week gives me some right to make demands.
No, it gives Eston the right to make the demands as you initially joined the war on their behalf. (Based upon the original war declarations which my character as Ruler was all too aware of).
Also, although it makes little difference now, you're army would have been slaughtered had my character been in the city at the time.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 12, 2011, 04:31:57 AM
Also, although it makes little difference now, you're army would have been slaughtered had my character been in the city at the time.
That is your problem. Still the outcome matters.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 12, 2011, 12:28:01 AM
Wow...Y'all sure seem to complain a lot about a treaty that your realms had no reason to be able to influence. Coria fought a war against Eston, and Eston's allies joined in with them. Coria signs a peace treaty with Eston and Eston's allies should also then sign a peace treaty with Coria. Eston's the only realm that was at war with Coria that had any right to make demands of Coria.
-Bip wrooong. Coria fought a war with Eston yes but Darka was supposed not only to help Eston but to also attack CE.Our only way through was through Coria.
You see the only reason there was a win for Eston in this war was our presence there with almost 16k army.If it wasn't for Darka things would be different.Darka did not fight just to help Eston but to secure her way to CE since Talerium is out of the question and through Tara is like 4 days travel.Even without Eston,while Merlin was away from his city and that is HIS mistake ,Darka could easily come in Barad Falas for as long as their units could manage to stay out.
Of course and Darka has a say in this.According to my opinion it was a mistake to even consider signing a treaty on our behalf as well.Since when the real damage force is to be considered irrelevant?
If you really wanted to bring this on a 1vs 1 level you could easily do that instead of signing treaties.Make this a 1vs 1 war and win or lose it.
Darka had every right to claim her way through Coria's mountains and demand a say in this treaty.
Quote from: Misericordia on March 12, 2011, 01:03:40 PM
Even without Eston,while Merlin was away from his city and that is HIS mistake ,Darka could easily come in Barad Falas for as long as their units could manage to stay out.
I understand that not everyone has access to the behind the scenes information, and so I'll give you some background info on the state of the allies at the time.
Yep you're correct, it was our own fault for having Merlin leave Barad Falas. But we were offered peace and requested to meet Kerwin in Anost. You tricked us, bravo, well done, it wouldn't have happened again so easily.
Yeah you had 20,000CS in Barad Falas, yet at the time that Kerwin signed peace, we had ~15k Taran, ~8k Corian and ~8k Talerium marching towards the city, around a day or two away. Both allies had just arrived in Coria having undergone a refit. From memory, I don't recall there being over 31K in the city at the time. So the damage you caused having been in our Capital would have been limited to what it had been even if Kerwin had not signed the peace.
The fact is, you've achieved a lot more out of peace negotiations now that Eston has signed the peace then you would have after weeks of fighting. So really, both the allies of Eston and Coria have Eston to be thankful for.
This War has always been exclaimed to be solely against the CE and those that get in the way of your actions against the CE. Peace has been offered on numerous occasions to Coria if we allow access to the CE, so the Darkans have actually achieved what they've always wanted.
The most interesting point I'm going to make is that the reasons justifying the War against the CE in the South is because of it's interference in their foreign politics. Yet this is
exactly what Darka is doing with Eston. A few days after the peace, Kostaja was demanding that Kerwin break the peace and attack Coria again. Hardly the actions of respectful allies. ;)
We tricked you?Funny,we had no idea about Eston wanting to sign peace with you.Absolutely none.We only learned about that when Merlin came back to Barad Falas and told us.
See maybe you don't know your facts right.We wanted to pass through Coria,nothing more.Eston wanted her borders safe so we were kinda helping them with that before heading to CE.Coria was not our primary target,just something between our target and us.
To us is was a normal march and once we saw the Duke was out of town,we attacked.If you have issues about being tricked on that you should have asked Eston to explain herself.Another reason why Darka should NOT suffer the decisions of others.Things like that taking place behind out back and no one contacting Darka.
Also about Kostaja asking Eston to attack Coria?LAL? We were almost told that Eston would have signed her treaty and we wouldn't have access through Coria.You know what that means?Talerium doesn't allow Darka to move through her lands,Coria neither....are we the toys of others to win wars for them and then not being allowed to travel through wherever we want?I freaking don;t think so.
You asked Eston a peace treaty in the first place because DARKA was the one to loot to the ground the mountains and then camp the capital of Coria.We won this chance for peace treaty with Coria for Eston.If you fail to see this and understand that this is giving Darka the right to demand a part in this treaty ,then what can i say.
I do find it hard to understand what Darka is complaining about with regards to the treaty overall though. Darka solely wants military access to CE. They have it. They have the single fastest route to CE that Coria is even able to offer you. What route exactly do you want? There are many slower routes that we can offer, but we expected the fastest one was preferred.
Unless of course the purpose of the war "isn't" to fight CE. If it is to destroy Coria even though we are cooperating, then that is of course something which I'd be interesting in having your leaders present to us.
Not to mention, we offered the only route Coria actually has to CE without going through Tara. So if you intend to attack Tara instead that is also worth noting.
The trulyironic thing is Darka working so hard to get access to fight the Cagilan Empire through Coria. So complicated, so much of a diplomatic mess, a war, etc. When the EASIEST way to get to the Cagilan Empire is to march through ONE RURAL Talerium region. No mountains, nothing. One rural region stands between Darka and the Cagilan Empire. But Darka trembles at standing up to Talerium, even though I'm pretty sure Darka could run over Talerium by itself, not to mention the fact that Eston and the Barony would definitely back them up in this.
Nevertheless, this should be put behind, everyone. It's over now. The only thing keeping the allies from marching over the mountains through Coria (since they've agreed to allow us access) is King Regulus being completely uncompromising and quite ridiculous when it comes to making a peace with Coria.
Well, unlike Eston, Darka does consider its relations with other realms before making unilateral decisions. There is a long-standing respect between the two - it saved Eston's ass before, even - that we're not about to break for a shortcut to CE's lands.
Hmm, popular topic. Is this mainly an OOC or IC discussion? Or a murky middle ground? ;)
For me it is an ooc discussion of course,it could never be ic anyway.
As Darkan player i have nothing to complain anymore i just disagreed that Darka shouldn't have a say on the treaty matter because she has every right.
As far as Talerium is concerned even though many would like to see Darka running through it to reach CE,is not going to happen for multiple reasons and i think that was made clear several times.
Quote from: Perth on March 12, 2011, 10:19:12 PM
Nevertheless, this should be put behind, everyone. It's over now. The only thing keeping the allies from marching over the mountains through Coria (since they've agreed to allow us access) is King Regulus being completely uncompromising and quite ridiculous when it comes to making a peace with Coria.
Greetings all! I though that all the fun was in the island, but it seems that there is some fun here too :).
I understand that , from your point of view, the attitude of Regulus is against the interests of Eston... but I don´t find it "ridiculous", can you explain me why is Regulus being "ridiculous"?
Quote from: Foundation on March 12, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
Hmm, popular topic. Is this mainly an OOC or IC discussion? Or a murky middle ground? ;)
It is mostly murkly middle ground as some players prattle on about how wonderful their realm is, others praise themselves and their schemes for world domination. It is typical internet trash talk and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 12, 2011, 04:31:57 AM
No, it gives Eston the right to make the demands as you initially joined the war on their behalf. (Based upon the original war declarations which my character as Ruler was all too aware of).
Also, although it makes little difference now, you're army would have been slaughtered had my character been in the city at the time.
Well, your mistake for leaving your city. If you had been there, we wouldn't have attacked. But you weren't, so we took advantage of that.
As for luring you out, we had no idea that Eston had offered a treaty. We discussed the matter for a couple days, with Estons general being in on the planning. He never mentioned it. Maybe he didn't know.
QuoteWell, your mistake for leaving your city. If you had been there, we wouldn't have attacked. But you weren't, so we took advantage of that.
As for luring you out, we had no idea that Eston had offered a treaty. We discussed the matter for a couple days, with Estons general being in on the planning. He never mentioned it. Maybe he didn't know.
We've acknowledged that it was our fault, and originally I had thought it had been intentional, but this is apparently not the case. It would have been a very good strategy if it had been planned, and very successful. Yeah it may have been untrustworthy and deceitful, but as a player that's what I like to see, some good strategy even if it's from our enemies. As a character, yeah it's annoying, but I'd expect that from Darka. Saeculo doesn't particularly like them as they are merceneries, but as a player I'd hate to see them removed from the continent, as their mercenary lifestyle brings a very unique element to the game in a way no other realm does.
QuoteWe won this chance for peace treaty with Coria for Eston.If you fail to see this and understand that this is giving Darka the right to demand a part in this treaty ,then what can i say.
If we are being completely honest Darka couldn't have inflicted nearly as much damage without the support of Eston, to try and claim that you were the ones responsible is a bit far fetched. Eston has their Capital city a days march away from our border region. They have a similar sized army to you, can refit a lot quicker and I wouldn't say I've seen a huge difference in the ability of each of the Generals.
So I can't agree with the claims that you basically won the war for them. As I remember Eston's allies didn't even bother to help them until their own demands were met first (this is the reason for their new government). Coria has actually been pretty loyal to it's current allies in a lot of ways, even when faced with destruction. I'm trying hard for us to get a good name, one that everyone knows they can trust. It's been difficult at some points, but that's what I'm attempting to achieve. Be they enemy or allies, trust will be important for Coria.
If this is the view of Darkans in game, then quite frankly, they are no better than the Cagilans. Indeed, they've displayed many of the negative attributes the CE has displayed before now. Bossing Eston around in Eston's own foreign politics, thinking that they defeated Coria and not Eston.
QuoteHmm, popular topic. Is this mainly an OOC or IC discussion? Or a murky middle ground?
I'd agree that it was murky middle ground, but I don't think any of it can, or should be used IC. For example, the fact that Carelia might attack Tara hasn't even been considered/talked about IC (that I know of anyway) as our characters wouldn't know about it.
Quote from: Foundation on March 12, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
Hmm, popular topic. Is this mainly an OOC or IC discussion? Or a murky middle ground? ;)
I agree that this is mainly an OOC Discussion. None of the information discussed here should be used IC. Especially because I doubt many characters truly understand the inner workings of some of the thoughts that have been expressed of characters here.
Now, granted it has taken on the feeling of a murky middle ground, and I admit that is partially my fault and I apologize. I don't think it is necessarily bad form to be biased towards one realm or another OOC wise, as long as you are fairly objective in statements and not biased against "players".
As far as the original topic I still stand by my prediction of CE losing the war. It may take a long time, but that is the eventual outcome.
Quote from: Foundation on March 12, 2011, 10:36:01 PM
Hmm, popular topic. Is this mainly an OOC or IC discussion? Or a murky middle ground? ;)
It's completely OOC, though that may be somewhat murky as people seem to be getting slightly heated!
The most interesting thing for me are the completely different impressions people have of events, relationships, and realms. It's fascinating to see how someone on the other side of the island sees things (and wonder how it can be so very different from what I think!)
Quote from: Munro on March 13, 2011, 03:54:19 AM
If we are being completely honest Darka couldn't have inflicted nearly as much damage without the support of Eston, to try and claim that you were the ones responsible is a bit far fetched. Eston has their Capital city a days march away from our border region. They have a similar sized army to you, can refit a lot quicker and I wouldn't say I've seen a huge difference in the ability of each of the Generals.
So I can't agree with the claims that you basically won the war for them. As I remember Eston's allies didn't even bother to help them until their own demands were met first (this is the reason for their new government). Coria has actually been pretty loyal to it's current allies in a lot of ways, even when faced with destruction. I'm trying hard for us to get a good name, one that everyone knows they can trust. It's been difficult at some points, but that's what I'm attempting to achieve. Be they enemy or allies, trust will be important for Coria.
If this is the view of Darkans in game, then quite frankly, they are no better than the Cagilans. Indeed, they've displayed many of the negative attributes the CE has displayed before now. Bossing Eston around in Eston's own foreign politics, thinking that they defeated Coria and not Eston.
I will not disagree on what they COULD have achieved but since this war started and at all the battles we had with coria..Eston had 5k army and Darka had 20k.
Do you honestly believe that with 5k army they could invade Barad Falas even without the Duke there?I seriously doubt it.The scout reports still exist in game and show the force they mastered in all these battles.It was weak because what they wanted was to secure their borders.
They had the exactly same force maybe 1k more when we were looting Coria,again without Darka they would have died pretty fast and be sure about it.
I am not talking about how much they could bring but what they brought.
Darka has won wars as an addition force of great activity and combat strength for many realms.I am in this realm for 6 years and i could start naming wars if you want me to, in which the problem always was that realms whined for Darka's presence on one side.In fact i am pretty sure you can find them still on the BM wiki.
This is not an arrogant statement,it is the truth,Darka was always a wealthy realm,working for others under payment thus what is spent is destroyed and the realm remained as wealthy as it was.
Try to see the big picture and read some scout reports of the recent battles and we can discuss this again if you wish.
Oh i have to add i am completely OOC in this of course,the forum has absolutely nothing to do with the game.
But i do get heated up sometimes hihi...that doesn't change the fact that this is OOC.
Quote from: Regulus on March 13, 2011, 12:54:47 AM
I understand that , from your point of view, the attitude of Regulus is against the interests of Eston... but I don´t find it "ridiculous", can you explain me why is Regulus being "ridiculous"?
I can understand why you are holding out and demanding regions. :)
However, Kerwin is quite frustrated because, as I said, Coria has offered demilitarization of Menedor and Lothruin plus full access through Menedor, and if Regulus would only accept that, then both sides could get what we want and need, and we could move the war along to fight to Cagilan Empire. That's why Kerwin is frustrated, as I'm sure Regulus is equally frustrated at Kerwin trying to get him to compromise. :P
Aye, but Regulus won't sign a bad treaty for Hammarsett. He is a proud and old King, and he would preffer to die on the battlefields than to sign a treaty against the interests of his Realm ( being in the winning side ).
notice.
Also, he is a bit upset with the attitude of Kerwin... he signed a treaty without previous notice. And Coria took advantage of the cease-fire between Eston and Coria. Hammarset lost Menedor thanks to that actions, and, as you know well, Menedor is the key thing in this conflict.
Hammarsett, running the risk of being destroyed, joined your side in this war, and now Eston is at peace with Coria and Hammarsett is still at war with Coria...That is the point of view of Regulus.
After parking our ass in Hamersett's capital for a while, this is what we get in Minas Ithil now:
Too Much Peace (11 hours, 34 minutes ago)
The soldiers in your realm are getting bored. They signed up for battles and looting, not sitting and marching. Morale falls and desertions increase.
Looking at my received messages, there were only 2 huge battle reports for the last 20 days (discarding the second round of one where a huge army finished off the stragglers)
Then about 21 days ago there was three rounds of fighting.
And 23 days ago there was a small skirmish.
So, 3 huge battles, and 1 medium battle in more than a month. In what appears to be 2 wars (or fronts).
I really fail to see what everyone is getting excited over.
For once people are genuinely fighting CE on...maybe equal terms? Possibly not though, but who knows.
Quote from: Chénier on March 14, 2011, 05:58:06 PM
After parking our ass in Hamersett's capital for a while, this is what we get in Minas Ithil now:
Too Much Peace (11 hours, 34 minutes ago)
The soldiers in your realm are getting bored. They signed up for battles and looting, not sitting and marching. Morale falls and desertions increase.
Minas Ithil isn't exactly taking an active role in the war. Your leaders decided not to go on the offensive, but just defend Hammersetts lands.
As for the lack of battles in the north, you can blame that on the whole peace talks with Coria mess.
QuoteAs for the lack of battles in the north, you can blame that on the whole peace talks with Coria mess.
That just depends on which side you talk to ;) I'm not so sure Saeculo would see it as a mess :P
Besides, the Northern realms have far greater access to CE now, the only thing stopping them is Hammarsett.
Meh, we're not waiting for Hammarsett. It's those damn mountains that are the problem.
QuoteMeh, we're not waiting for Hammarsett. It's those damn mountains that are the problem.
Being able to access Galadia helps solve the mountain issue. You're not able to use Galadia until Coria signs peace with Hammarsett, so I'd say your leaders would probably agree with me that you're waiting for Hammarsett. They've stated as much in letters ;)
That's only if you assume he's telling you and me the same thing. :)
Quote from: Munro on March 13, 2011, 03:54:19 AM
I'd agree that it was murky middle ground, but I don't think any of it can, or should be used IC. For example, the fact that Carelia might attack Tara hasn't even been considered/talked about IC (that I know of anyway) as our characters wouldn't know about it.
I find it amusing that people think that my comment meant Carelia was considering attacking Tara, when all I was referring to was the fact that Tara was and is very obviously trying to drum up a reason to attack Carelia.
Bleh, i thought i will not open my dirty mouth here... but oh wells...
Overall, Darka got a bit pissed cause Eston signed that treaty even every other part on their side disagreed about it. But finally Darka thought it got what it wanted from that war... but there is still troubles on northern border of Coria. Eston made a mistake and weakened severly our negotiation "tools" by signing that treaty.
If Darka would be "nasty" it would just simply agree with Eston and go through Talerium lands, it would be fastest and most effective route to take and we could weaken Talerium good... but there is problem. Darka consider Talerium as their friend. Even thought Talerium and Darka has been diffrent side of war fronts for a long time, we have had decent relations and we have honored each others borders. Darka has not interfered Eston vs. TAlerium wars until there was Eston vs. Talerium, CE, Coria, Tara... Then Darka thougth enough is enough. We had also disagreements with some Eston leaders but it was also important to Darka that CE´s influence wont get any closer to our border. If Darka would not have interfered with BoM... and if South would not have started war against CE, Coria would now share border with Darka. And knowing how big influence CE have/had to Coria, i bet war with them would be on hand.
After CE started to threat Darka that it will move war to our lands, Darka started to do survey with other realms and got some surprising replies. Allies of CE were not too happy about CE´s actions. CE had chewed too big bite and tried to mess around with too many people. When i realized that south would not join crusade against Darka i declared war to CE and to have goal to weaken its power. It will be long war, this war will measure participating realms skills to handle pressure and frustration. Darkas position geographically is sucky. ONly route to CE for us is through those mountains. When south started war, our job is to support them. We will tie up Talerium/Coria/Tara here north, so south have chanche to keep up with CE.
I prolly was not clear enough with my goals and plans with Eston, or Eston underestimated Darkan and Talerium relations.
Taras tone have turned pretty aggressive towards Carelia, and i wouldnt be surprised that if our route to Coria would have been blocked that TAra would propably have started open war against Carelia when their northern border would have been secured. Now Darka have atleast in theory chanche to threat Tara if they turn offensive on this war.
This is intresting war. KK have always been pretty patient and thus i see long war to be on our side as long as we stay united. Coria negotiations were tought test of our unity.
I have deep dislike all kind of OOC babblering and i prefer to keep everything IC.
Thanks , now you made me start yapping as well ;)
I for one like the twist the war have taken with the lack of communication as our greatest enemy and as the biggest fault to the mess the north are in or should I say was as we do have common ground and an understanding to why and how we got into it. When talking about information I would like to say that misinformed characters are even worse as the players start to believe something that simply isnt true.
Many are under the beliefs that Darka and the Barony rushed to Eston when they got attacked but I dare those of you who actually believe that to take a look at the declarations of war made back then. Many think that Hammersett took Elost because it was an easy thing to do and then simply joined the North, if your character is curious then he might sent a tell to Regulus and ask about the history behind the TO of Elost. The Barony took a rouge Fiddleford just before the war...or did they actually take it? Hammersett dragged Minas Ithil into the war is something I read alot and I smirk every single time as I am aware of some of the politics behind it and all I can say is that Minas Ithil wasnt asked to join and they was not threatened in any way into doing it.
I dont know how many times my char have said this but share vital information with atleast a few trusted involved or it might come back and bite you hard, its not fun to be proven wrong because you was misinformed or simply not informed at all so when playing think of your fellow player and share what can be shared in order to increase the fun of the game and in order to prevent eventual mishaps to occur.
If you think my character was pissed at Eston for dealing in the dark behind our backs then you are right, this is now something he and Kerwin have discussed and I think both have came to a greater understanding and I bet it will not happen again. The Eston way of dealing with this on their own could have been solved by either fully share information and intentions from the start and/or involving everything in the negotiations, the way it went now information was lost and false information leaked out causing more harm then good.
And my guess for the outcome of this war? I do not make guesses but I think there will be a twist or two happening that no one really thought might happen before all this is over.
Quote from: johnny Hammarberg on March 15, 2011, 09:41:21 AM
When talking about information I would like to say that misinformed characters are even worse as the players start to believe something that simply isnt true.
At least I know for sure that my character is certainly not misinformed on any of the current issues. It always pays to have connections. ;)
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 08, 2011, 07:04:09 PM
And yes, I'm mildly annoyed as Leta and my character Malcolm staked their careers and the entirety of Carelia on this war, and we were counting on the northern realms coming to assist...
Why do you think Berlas of CE regards the Carelians as cowardly jackals? Given the above, and the apparent backstab that they gave the Empire, as well as the diplomatically near-impossible switch that Caergoth and Suville did (Hey we're at war with the snakes/hey, we're best of buddies), he has quite a lot to be unhappy about.
He wouldn't mind if Carelia got destroyed totally - not a single tear. Serpaents and corruption...look how Carelia started the war after all.
Quote from: Bael on March 15, 2011, 10:46:06 AM
Why do you think Berlas of CE regards the Carelians as cowardly jackals? Given the above, and the apparent backstab that they gave the Empire, as well as the diplomatically near-impossible switch that Caergoth and Suville did (Hey we're at war with the snakes/hey, we're best of buddies), he has quite a lot to be unhappy about.
He wouldn't mind if Carelia got destroyed totally - not a single tear. Serpaents and corruption...look how Carelia started the war after all.
You
are aware that the CE threatened to attack Carelia if it didn't cede regions to Caergoth and Suville as well as destroy all Magna Serpaensist temples and shrines, remove all nobles who follow it from any position of power, as well as threatening to attack Caergoth and Suville if
they didn't agree to a CE-brokered peace, yes? As well as informing Carelia that nothing it did would be trusted and that Cagilan senators would have to be dispatched to check on compliance with the CE's demands?
Caergoth wanted MS out of Ser'quea. That happened when Carelia got pissed enough at the CE to decide it wasn't worth fighting over when there was someone else
ordering a hell of a lot worse.
Quote from: Bael on March 15, 2011, 10:46:06 AM
Why do you think Berlas of CE regards the Carelians as cowardly jackals? Given the above, and the apparent backstab that they gave the Empire, as well as the diplomatically near-impossible switch that Caergoth and Suville did (Hey we're at war with the snakes/hey, we're best of buddies), he has quite a lot to be unhappy about.
CE pretty much threatened all three of those realms with war and you're surprised they banded together against you? :)
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 15, 2011, 12:11:50 PM
You are aware that the CE threatened to attack Carelia if it didn't cede regions to Caergoth and Suville as well as destroy all Magna Serpaensist temples and shrines, remove all nobles who follow it from any position of power, as well as threatening to attack Caergoth and Suville if they didn't agree to a CE-brokered peace, yes? As well as informing Carelia that nothing it did would be trusted and that Cagilan senators would have to be dispatched to check on compliance with the CE's demands?
Just to be clear, we are talking about
one incompetent ruler, yes? Who has since disappeared (player timed out).
Moot point. He is the one that drove the south to band together and attack you. The fact that you elected a ham-fisted clown is hardly our fault, is it now?
Quote from: Bael on March 15, 2011, 12:23:33 PM
Just to be clear, we are talking about one incompetent ruler, yes? Who has since disappeared (player timed out).
Your Ruler. You elected him. CE still won't admit that there were open threats. Which means no apology. Which means continued lying.
Not to mention that the CE has threatened to wipe out each of the realms in the southern bloc at
least twice. The issues with CE dictating to Carelia on religious policy date back before that "one incompetent Ruler" as well.
And, go figure, everyone gets tired of the CE telling them what to do.
It seams like some people have a hard time keeping things OOC, calm down and dont say it is not IC because from a bystanders point of view it is!
The events that now plays across Atamara is the fruit of a long era of CE trying to dominate more or less every single realm, it is not something new and its not something you can blame one player to have caused. The lesser skirmishes with the pen is talking about things that clearly wasnt explained to those involved, how many new rulers havent been punished for lack of knowledge caused by either a lying or a silent predecessor ? You all can throw accusations back and forth but as long as your character wasnt directly involved you simply cant be sure you are speaking the truth.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 15, 2011, 10:22:58 AM
At least I know for sure that my character is certainly not misinformed on any of the current issues. It always pays to have connections. ;)
Judging from what I've seen you post on these forums, I'd have to say that this is certainly not true.
You know, it often happens that conspiracies always run deeper. Being misinformed can cut both ways, yes? So let's not be too pompous in our attitudes lest we turn out to be the bigger fool.
Quote from: Indirik on March 15, 2011, 01:36:04 PM
Judging from what I've seen you post on these forums, I'd have to say that this is certainly not true.
Okay, well I understand that my character doesn't know "everything" about what is taking place behind doors in the NA but I know for sure he knows just as much about what is going on in Atamara as any ruler on the island if not more. My character essentially helped craft the initial declaration of war against Eston as well as knows all of the original declaration of wars since then from each new realm involved. As well as personal conversations with each of the Ruler's in the Northern Alliance. If that isn't enough, then I don't know what is.
P.S. I do find it amusing how quick everyone is to leap to each other's throats about how this war got started, when they don't realize how much fun this war will will have been for so many people involved by the time it finally comes to a close. It is very easy to start wars, but it is much more difficult to end them.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 15, 2011, 06:46:06 PMOkay, well I understand that my character doesn't know "everything" about what is taking place behind doors in the NA but I know for sure he knows just as much about what is going on in Atamara as any ruler on the island if not more. My character essentially helped craft the initial declaration of war against Eston as well as knows all of the original declaration of wars since then from each new realm involved. As well as personal conversations with each of the Ruler's in the Northern Alliance. If that isn't enough, then I don't know what is.
You're assuming they're telling you the full truth about their positions. Or at least some version of the truth. Or maybe something that has some kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. Which doesn't have to be the case at all. In fact, I'd be surprised if any of the rulers gave you anything more than their fast and loose interpretation of events. They're certainly not going to give you the entire story.
Now, I admit that you're character almost certainly knows a LOT more about this than my character does, or that I do. My character is a general, so he doesn't get involved in politics. I mostly try to avoid it, and my character almost exclusively ignores it. He waits for his King to give him an objective, then he finds the best way to do it, base don the restrictions he has been given.
QuoteP.S. I do find it amusing how quick everyone is to leap to each other's throats about how this war got started, when they don't realize how much fun this war will will have been for so many people involved by the time it finally comes to a close. It is very easy to start wars, but it is much more difficult to end them.
Oh, we know that this war is fun. It's the most fun I've had on AT since I burned down Brackhead. I had fun with that, but Norland had !!Fun!!. This fun promises to last a lot longer than that. And I don't have to listen to Norlanders. (Well, not much...)
I think that the combativeness on the forum about this topic comes from how angry the entire northern alliance was with Eston over how they handled the peace treaty process, and the final treaty to which they agreed.
Quote from: Indirik on March 15, 2011, 08:32:29 PM
You're assuming they're telling you the full truth about their positions. Or at least some version of the truth. Or maybe something that has some kernel of truth buried in it somewhere. Which doesn't have to be the case at all. In fact, I'd be surprised if any of the rulers gave you anything more than their fast and loose interpretation of events. They're certainly not going to give you the entire story.
That is most certainly true and I hadn't really considered that. Although, if they are lying to my character, then what does it matter if I misunderstand things. At least I tried.
It is amusing, as it does seem to me that General's tend to be the most "into" the war, and yet don't always exactly know much any of the politics around it. Of course, mine would have to be an exception, as I went from General to Ruler, so it is a bit opposite there.
Quote from: Indirik on March 15, 2011, 08:32:29 PM
I think that the combativeness on the forum about this topic comes from how angry the entire northern alliance was with Eston over how they handled the peace treaty process, and the final treaty to which they agreed.
*Pats my character on the back* "Great work kid!" ;) Hate to take credit for that one, but drafting the treaty that gets signed is quite amusing from the other end of the spectrum. Although, is your character the Darkan or Estonian General? I know my character spoke specifically with the Darkan General and Ruler and they all said they were quite fine with the terms of the treaty (not in those words) before it was signed, but ended up making a ruckuss afterwords. I remember distinctly Darka saying something along the lines of "only wanting access to CE" and if they got that and we were able to get peace with Eston they'd be happy.
Cheers!!!
*Goes back to trying to repair a city....*
The duke of Barad Falas is the ruler now? Man, Peregrin missed the ball on that. Then again, Peregrin kinda messed up by not dying heroically in battle. >:(
Quote from: Artemesia on March 16, 2011, 01:48:23 AM
The duke of Barad Falas is the ruler now? Man, Peregrin missed the ball on that. Then again, Peregrin kinda messed up by not dying heroically in battle. >:(
Sorry for those that don't know Coria's history, the Duke of Barad Falas, *was* the Ruler of Coria for quite a long time. Now he's Duke and Ambassador (because he just can't stay away from politics)
My only recent update on Coria was fairly long ago. There was something about how an Igelfield took a ton of gold from Coria and got to 10k family gold in one day or something. Then he...died I think.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 15, 2011, 12:40:12 PM
Your Ruler. You elected him. CE still won't admit that there were open threats. Which means no apology. Which means continued lying.
Not to mention that the CE has threatened to wipe out each of the realms in the southern bloc at least twice. The issues with CE dictating to Carelia on religious policy date back before that "one incompetent Ruler" as well.
And, go figure, everyone gets tired of the CE telling them what to do.
;D ;D ;D
Yes we are a republic, and yes we elected him. But he was the only one who stood... one of the issues with a republic is all the communication that is require IC to get everybody in the Senate to agree. That's in addition to any conversations being held with other realms. We were blessed with some fantastic leaders in Salvadore Zond, Shanka Foona and those before but it takes a lot of time that a lot of people just don't have. I have to wonder if some of our older players simply have more to do in there real lives than manage a digital kingdom.
Quote from: Indirik on March 15, 2011, 08:32:29 PM
Oh, we know that this war is fun. It's the most fun I've had on AT since I burned down Brackhead. I had fun with that, but Norland had !!Fun!!. This fun promises to last a lot longer than that. And I don't have to listen to Norlanders. (Well, not much...)
Bravo. I can't speak for Norland but as someone very heavily involved in it (albeit on the losing side) I had a ball.
The original Norland/MI war was started by.. um.. certain individuals.. in Norland (essentially OOC but with solid IC justification) because AT had stagnated and it snowballed from there. Sure it could have ended better for Norland but anyone playing with the right mentality would have had fun and losing is the risk of participating. There were great battles, epic RPs, betrayals, power-brokering, chaos, mayhem, blood, land, gold, glory and interesting times for all. It certainly shook up northeast AT the way I hope the current war will shake up the whole continent (wars are fertile.. they have children) and was some of the most fun I have had in BM.
The reason it was fun was because for a long time there was risk, action and uncertainty for those who got properly involved. While it is natural to shy away from these things when in positions of power sometimes you need to put the OOC hat on as a major player and say.. what the hell.. this will make things interesting, dynamic and fun.
As for not listening to Norlanders .. welllll.. the brother of the General who kicked the whole MI war off commands your homeland defense force and the Norland General who stood-up to the combined forces of Darka, BoM and Eston to the last (wo)man is now serving in your army. Who knows how the after-effects of that war have affected them? For better, worse or indifferent actions have consequences in BM which is, of course, the beauty of the game.
Quote from: wraith
While it is natural to shy away from these things when in positions of power sometimes you need to put the OOC hat on as a major player and say.. what the hell.. this will make things interesting, dynamic and fun.
I believe this was largely an issue with Way of the Hammer. While it is extremely well designed as religions in BM go, the reasons for the war had little to do with the religion itself, so there was an issue of disbelief. It could have been handled far more gracefully, with the same results, and without the... issues of immersion, but that's long in the past now.
Quote from: wraith
As for not listening to Norlanders .. welllll.. the brother of the General who kicked the whole MI war off commands your homeland defense force
A person is not their brother, and shame on anyone that plays their characters as such.
Quote from: wraithand the Norland General who stood-up to the combined forces of Darka, BoM and Eston to the last (wo)man is now serving in your army.
Because being in an army means their word holds weight? That... leap is covering quite a distance.
Quote from: Indirik
I think that the combativeness on the forum about this topic comes from how angry the entire northern alliance was with Eston over how they handled the peace treaty process, and the final treaty to which they agreed.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. When Sordnaz first told his councils about the initial treaty content there were none of us interested in accepting it as was... hell, at that point the only region Coria wanted to "give up" was
Nazia. Talk about an insult; their lands burned and their armies lay dead, and they offer a region they do not even control as a token of peace with a sugar coating of "It gives you a border with CE!"
What a joke of a treaty. With any luck Coria gets the burning they deserve for it once this is all over.
Quote from: ^ban^ on March 16, 2011, 07:17:05 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head here. When Sordnaz first told his councils about the initial treaty content there were none of us interested in accepting it as was... hell, at that point the only region Coria wanted to "give up" was Nazia. Talk about an insult; their lands burned and their armies lay dead, and they offer a region they do not even control as a token of peace with a sugar coating of "It gives you a border with CE!"
What a joke of a treaty. With any luck Coria gets the burning they deserve for it once this is all over.
Frankly, none of Eston's allies had ever told Kerwin that they were somehow seeking to gain stuff from the war with Coria (except for Hammarsett). When they finally came to Eston's aid, they announced that they would protect Eston and sign peace when Eston did. If there was ANY objective at all, it WAS to secure access to the Cagilan Empire. This was done, and is done. Honestly, the whole "oh wait, we wanted to kill Coria!" stuff came out of the blue to Kerwin and came pretty much right before or after the treaty was signed. Perhaps Kerwin missed some things that happened prior to taking the throne, though.
I think some people needs and update regarding how the declarations of war towards Coria was written, BoM for once stated clearly that it was going to war against CE and Coria because of its actions towards other realms. No where was Eston mentioned but only that BoM had had enough of CE and its minions. I can not remember how Darkas declaration was formulated but I think it was similar. I am not saying that none of the realms came to Estons aid but rather that all did but not only with the sole intention to secure Eston and that was also announced in public. BoM's only trip into Eston before that was to oversee the TO done by Hammersett in Elost, then we travelled back in peace only to be threatened by CE to stay out, Darka also declared war after being asked to stay away so the war was not just a matter of Eston but of a much larger issue.
And no, BoM never wanted to divide Coria into tiny pieces but rather as some vikings said, lets tear it down and burn what we can as it will take ages for them to rebuild their strength.
Still the mistake was not to negotiate with Coria but doing so and signing without involving allies who was clearly hindered at first by the treaty, now its solved but the issue was time consuming to deal with and hot feelings rise because of it.
Anyway, saying that to secure Eston and to sign peace was a main goal is wrong as at least the majority of the involved had never spoken or written those words.
Hammersett went into defend Eston but later on went offensive with a clear official statement that it was against Coria and not to only defend and secure Eston.
Anyway, peace is signed and Eston is secured for now and the road south is open for all to use and only time can tell if it was wise or not.
When Darka first joined as _defensive_ force to protect Eston from gangbang, that pretty much was our declaration that we will be there until Eston have made certain changes on its leadership. Later when we got threats from CE we made new declaration against Coria/CE and their allies.
Eston got a bit fooled by Coria in this. Coria just needed to get Eston sign treaty where Eston will protect Corias border and big part of CE/Coria problems would be over. Ce could have focus south with Tara, Talerium prolly would have enough power to stop Eston on its border.
But things look a bit brighter now... but if i have understanded right, real peace between Coria/BoM/Hammarsett is faraway in future.
You are right that things looks brighter now but I dont know how far real peace is from being signed, its probably a bit more complicated then what it seams at a glance and peace will probably not be reached within a day or two but wars are not ment to be forever.
As for the big war thats really just started I must say that I dont care how it goes as I am fascinated that it finally came to be a reality after years of talking about having a huge war with most realms involved, having such a strength at both sides makes it even more fun even if I wish that the old system where BoM vikings could travel anywhere without the penalty from distance now give was more fun.
Quote from: ^ban^ on March 16, 2011, 07:17:05 AM
.. A person is not their brother, and shame on anyone that plays their characters as such ..
.. Because being in an army means their word holds weight? That... leap is covering quite a distance ..
Agreed on both points but what I was trying to say (badly it seems, but it was late) was he
might be listening to Norlanders already (or their sympathisers) or do so in future and not realise it. Not every character knows every other character's history or connections. Using speciifc examples just muddied the point I was trying to make as neither are particularly good examples for a number of reasons.
Quote from: Perth on March 16, 2011, 09:09:40 AMIf there was ANY objective at all, it WAS to secure access to the Cagilan Empire. This was done, and is done.
Looking at the map, and taking in consideration the position and situation of Coria when the treaty was signed, the treaty is a failure for the norther realms.
Everything changes if we add that Eston ( Kerwin ) wants to start a friendly relation with Coria, it is a good treaty for that, limited military access and peace between both Realms. Regulus wouldn´t be surprised if Coria and Eston sign an alliance in the near future... but here is the main problem, Eston signed a good treaty thinking in her interests ... but not good enough for her allies.
Quote from: Regulus on March 16, 2011, 02:35:52 PM
Looking at the map, and taking in consideration the position and situation of Coria when the treaty was signed, the treaty is a failure for the norther realms.
Um... how?
Coria has granted the allies access through their mountains to attack the Cagilan Empire. Plus they have disallowed Tara to travel through Coria in the event they decide they might want to attack us. Also, they have granted the allies permission to attack Tara through Coria if Tara breaks the peace with Carelia. Now, I would agree that attacking through the mountains is not ideal, hence Kerwin's insistence that the attack go through Talerium, Darka refuses of course, though. And now the Kostaja is saying how difficult it is to attack over the mountains ::)
Nevertheless, the allies HAVE achieved access to the Cagilans and Hammarsett can join them as soon as it makes peace! :)
Quote from: Bael on March 15, 2011, 12:23:33 PM
Just to be clear, we are talking about one incompetent ruler, yes? Who has since disappeared (player timed out).
I don't know that he was incompetent so much as arrogant. He pushed too far and in a direction that he didn't need to push.
Regardless, the fact that a new ruler was elected doesn't mean that the realm doesn't have to deal with the consequences of the former ruler's actions. My character has certainly had to deal with things that my former ruler did (or didn't do), and Carelia's a monarchy. A Republic is going to be held to an even higher standard of realm responsibility for the ruler's actions.
I think Darka should have pushed to build temples of Darkanism in Coria. How come this isn't standard procedure?
Quote from: egamma on March 18, 2011, 05:38:10 AM
I think Darka should have pushed to build temples of Darkanism in Coria. How come this isn't standard procedure?
Well that's one surefire way to have Coria destroyed....Choose a treaty term that will never be accepted.
It could be that the church and religion is separated in Darka?
Quote from: egamma on March 18, 2011, 05:38:10 AM
I think Darka should have pushed to build temples of Darkanism in Coria. How come this isn't standard procedure?
While Darkanism is the state religion of Darka it isn't about spreading the faith by the sword..and generally speaking the government and the church are left to do their own thing.
QuoteI think Darka should have pushed to build temples of Darkanism in Coria. How come this isn't standard procedure?
I don't understand why people think Coria was surrendering. We weren't. We offered peace, we were not rolling over and giving up. Sure we were on the back foot, but at no point were we left completely defenceless. I'm not saying that peace wasn't wanted or needed as it was, and this is why there are some Corians who now feel indebted to Eston, as many of the leaders of their allies now know.
But this peace was not achieved in the same way most people seem to think it was. This was not the unconditional surrender which most people think it was. We were always given a set of demands, and when we agreed to meet the main principles of these, peace was offered. But now people are coming out and saying that Eston has been tricked? No.. the main goal for the Northern realms was to attack CE, they've told us this IC and OOC. But now it's claimed after the fact they could have gained loads of Coria's lands? This was never demanded (apart from Nazia as it bordered the CE).
As it is, apart from Eston, the rulers of the Northern Federation are being quite ridiculous in their demands. You given an inch, they take a foot as they say.
Here's an analogy: The Northern Federation demand 100 pieces of copper, 50 pieces of copper is offered by Coria, then the majority accept, only for one realm to state that they now want Gold, and then the rest claim the same.
We've gone from peace talks, to 'cease fire' talks. Which ironically is what we had at the start, so the whole thing is pointless. But not only are we having ceasefire talks, they expect for the same agreements to be honoured as the ones we made when we were discussing peace!
My character does not understand why those characters think that a realm offering neutrality would be in the same position to ask for quite substantial demands against another realms allies.
If a friend (peace) asks you to do a favour which may risk getting you in trouble with your wife/husband (allies), this is completely different to some guy you've never really spoke to (neutral) who asks you to do the same favour.
You all want a shakeup in politics, Kerwin had succeeded in the first steps to this, but all the other Northern leaders have done is to suggest that Coria has made the correct choice in allies. If you ask me as a player who has the stronger alliance. Given the reactions of Darka BoM and Hammarsett towards Eston, I'd certainly say the alliance Coria is currently in. It doesn't seem like CE, Tara and Talerium are so quick to jump on another allies back about something they don't like.
For example, Tara didn't really want to become so offensively involved in this war, this was frustrating to Talerium Coria and CE, but none of us started to behave the same way with them as the North did with Eston.
That's all good and well, but Coria was the aggressor in this war, and made a rather ludicrous and unprovoked demand. If someone attacked my realm under that pretense and then sued for peace when his capital was sacked, I'd make him pay out the nose to get peace, and not just give up a claim to one region he doesn't even own anymore. The access to CE we wanted is a joke. We have exactly one point of entry that takes us through mountains, where our men starve to death due to lack of food only to be greeted by an army sitting behind a wall.
Quote from: Sacha on March 18, 2011, 07:18:28 PM
The access to CE we wanted is a joke. We have exactly one point of entry that takes us through mountains, where our men starve to death due to lack of food only to be greeted by an army sitting behind a wall.
Starvation can be averted by taking along food in caravans so this is not a valid argument. Armies behind walls are only a problem if you have not brought enough men and seige equipment along. Good planning will overcome both of your objections.
Roland
Straw man argument. Why should we waste gold on caravans and take precious food away from our realm to make an attack, simply because one of our allies signed a silly treaty without consulting us beforehand? And we brought almost 20,000 CS in a single army, almost all heavy infantry with numerous siege engines. But that doesn't help us much when the only way to our enemy's land is through a 30,000 CS army behind a palisade, again because our allies signed a silly treaty without consulting us.
Quote from: Sacha on March 18, 2011, 07:18:28 PM
That's all good and well, but Coria was the aggressor in this war, and made a rather ludicrous and unprovoked demand. If someone attacked my realm under that pretense and then sued for peace when his capital was sacked, I'd make him pay out the nose to get peace, and not just give up a claim to one region he doesn't even own anymore.
I don't think you understand how long Coria has been seeking peace. We had been in peace talks for well over a month before our capitol was sacked. We'd even already agreed to terms, and this was also while Nazia was still a region of Coria's. In fact, we agreed to terms once with Kerwin, and then he had to come back later and ask for more in order to satisfy the desires of his realm and allies. We agreed to these immediately as well. The fact is that the treaty was agreed upon well in advance of the sacking of Barad Falas. In fact, the only reason the city was sacked was because Merlin was trying to deliver the treaty to Eston via the new treaty system that was already agreed to be signed.
Quote from: Sacha on March 18, 2011, 07:18:28 PM
The access to CE we wanted is a joke. We have exactly one point of entry that takes us through mountains, where our men starve to death due to lack of food only to be greeted by an army sitting behind a wall.
You're right the access that you have to CE is a joke. However, if you want to go through "Coria" We can ONLY offer you passes through mountains. Coria's only connection to CE is through a mountain pass via Nazia or Galadia. If you want to take another entrance into CE, you either have to enter through Tara (roundabouts Tarasac) or through the rural regions of Talerium (which are "off limits"). So there should be no reason to complain to Coria. Coria gave you an entrance to CE and it is the best entrance that we can give you as a realm. It's not like Coria makes it a habit to go visit CE. In fact, even when my character did visit CE's capitol it was through use of Tara's lands.
Coria has done everything possible to rid ourselves of this problem, and it is only greed that has kept the northern alliance from signing full peace and doing exactly what they say they wanted to do: Fight CE.
QuoteCoria was the aggressor in this war, and made a rather ludicrous and unprovoked demand.
I don't even know where to start with that comment. Do you even know why the war was started? There were two main reasons, but both were due to the actions of the Estonian government.
Firstly, and the main reason Saeculo proposed war, was because of their handling of the Herunumen incident. It's funny, because as a player, I suspect that it was a member of an allied realm which originally put the bounty on Saeculo's head for his support of Eston! How ironic is that? In the League of the Eagle, Saeculo had been quite outspoken in his support of Eston and then suddenly found himself with his first and only bounty, putting two and two together, I'd suspect it was an ally who placed the Gold on the bounty board.
Regardless of this, and despite the protection Coria had offered Eston (preventing access of Carelia to through our lands) Eston allowed Herunumen to escape, the very man who had stabbed a loyal friend of Eston's. Now I understand that many in Eston won't know that Saeculo was pro-Eston, but nevertheless, Saeculo felt betrayed by those he once considered friends. If you remember, Coria did not participate in the CE/BoM war and the reason for this was because Eston was involved and we didn't want to attack their troops.
The second major incident was when Talerium assassins assaulted an Estonian. Because of this, we were threatened and the trade which once existed was halted. Regulus has used the same argument against Coria, but I really don't understand how people can justify attempting to punish Coria because of the actions of an ally. Those nobles did not traverse Corian lands to reach Eston, nor did they have our support, we didn't even know until after the fact. Yet on both occasions with Eston and Hammarsett, this has been used as an excuse to punish Coria. Both instances, it's ended in War. Lesson? Be just in your punishments and don't punish those un-involved.
Friendship between Coria and Eston had been growing before this war, since the foundation of Coria in fact, and but for those two occasions we wouldn't be at War.
Indeed, I believe the player of Roland can confirm that Saeculo was willing to travel to Eston to speak with their King over the matter. Coria actually tried to avoid war at first, but then King Jean demanded that Saeculo leave Eston for "his protection could no longer be guaranteed".
But as you seem to know, can you please tell me what Coria's demands were? Originally, it was that their Judge, Athena be punished and removed from her position. Funnily enough, your own rulers demanded the exact same thing in regards to Roland and Jean before they would help out Eston.
Then during the war, the reparations we requested was for a food producing region in compensation so that we would not have to depend on Eston for food in the future and so that they could not attempt to use this as leverage again. Thus our peace demands were not harsh against Eston when we had the upper-hand, and Eston's were not harsh against Coria when they had the upper hand, so I fail to see your point?
Now we are at peace again, Kerwin and Saeculo seem to get along, and I wouldn't be surprised if both realms start strengthening their friendship once again whilst respecting their current alliances and commitments.
Additionally, it's the choice of your own rulers to go through the Corian mountains. Other than flying (this was not an available option in the Medieval period) or going through Talerium, how else do you wish to gain access to the CE? :)
Quote from: Munro on March 18, 2011, 08:15:49 PM
The second major incident was when Talerium assassins assaulted ...
...everyone?
Seriously, Talerium has more rogue infils than any realm I've ever seen! They wander all over the place hitting anyone they want, and then refuse to do anything about it.
QuoteBut as you seem to know, can you please tell me what Coria's demands were?
The demands I am familiar with, and what got Darka involved in the war, were "Eston has to give Coria the Barad Lacirith duchy." i.e. Eston has to give their capital duchy to Coria. To be fair, I believe it was CE's ruler that made that demand, and not Coria. But then Coria went along with it? So, they de facto became Coria's demands. I'm not privy to all the various ruler channel stuff on AT, so I obviously don't have all the back-and-forth that must have gone around.
QuoteEston has to give Coria the Barad Lacirith duchy
This was never even considered by Coria. Not in its Senate nor its Military Council. The reason in part that Hammarsett was created was because we didn't really have enough nobles to control the additional Duchy of Shannandoah, so we definitely didn't demand the Duchy of Barad lacirith, we just couldn't have controlled it physically with the number of nobles we had. It would have been a pointless demand because we had the opportunity to gain the Duchy of Shannadoah a month or so before which we declined.
QuoteBut then Coria went along with it?
No, we didn't. I can honestly say that neither my character or myself as a player had any knowledge of these demands by any Corian or member of the CE. Saeculo has always been near the top of Corian politics, so I can only assume that no other Corian had any knowledge of this. Perhaps the ruler at the time may have, but no steps were taken to make this a reality.
Also, to be fair, if that's true, it just shows the extent that the CE was involved in international politics. Making demands for another realm, which that other realm didn't even know about! :P
As a character, Saeculo likes the CE, and is actually quite supportive, he was born there and has his family estate is in Etoge. He's a first generation colonist and so his loyalty is always going to be split somewhat. (As time goes on, less so).
As a player, despite the fact it was my first ever realm, I can't say that they aren't getting what they deserve at least in part. They've pushed Coria around before now, and I know for a fact that Saeculo has had arguments with them before. I believe Enri and Saeculo certainly discussed the apparant domination over Coria and it's foreign affairs.
I would never want to see them destroyed, just learn some humility. They certainly do deserve to be a world power however, their successful defence against such odds is testimony of that.
Quote from: Indirik on March 18, 2011, 09:05:31 PM
The demands I am familiar with, and what got Darka involved in the war, were "Eston has to give Coria the Barad Lacirith duchy." i.e. Eston has to give their capital duchy to Coria.
That is quite interesting. I've NEVER heard that before, and my character Merlin, like Saeculo's character was at the forefront of Corian politics during that time, perhaps more so than Saeculo at the time. Munro has stated quite clearly what Coria's demands were at the beginning of the war and I know that there was vast confusion in the leadership of the northern alliance about what exactly our demands were at the time, but I know I cleared that up personally with many of the NA leadership since then. (After they had joined the war against Coria of course).
I.E. I can guarantee that those were NOT Coria's demands in the least. Whether another realm such as CE stated those or not, is quite a different story, but it was never made by Coria's leadership that I am sure.
Quote from: Sacha on March 18, 2011, 07:56:22 PM
Straw man argument. Why should we waste gold on caravans and take precious food away from our realm to make an attack, simply because one of our allies signed a silly treaty without consulting us beforehand? And we brought almost 20,000 CS in a single army, almost all heavy infantry with numerous siege engines. But that doesn't help us much when the only way to our enemy's land is through a 30,000 CS army behind a palisade, again because our allies signed a silly treaty without consulting us.
I'm so confused. What treaty did you want, then? We could have annexed all of the Barad Falas Duchy and still had this same problem. This mountain problem is no one's fault but Darka's. If Darka would walk through Cantril we would be in the CE without the problems of the mountains, but Darka refuses to offend Talerium for some crazy reason.
Quotebut Darka refuses to offend Talerium for some crazy reason.
It's actually quite a logical reason if you look at it from an OOC or Darkan perspective.
Respecting the border with Eston and Talerium prevents them from being attacked. This is especially important for Darka, given the fact they have no loyalties and no true allies. They fight alongside BoM and Hammarsett now, but in the future, if the price was right, they'd attack either of those realms, of that I'm pretty sure.
It makes sense for them to keep the two realms bordering their own happy, as these will be the ones protecting the Darkan borders when the people they are next paid to attack want a little revenge ;)
In short, they are protecting Talerium in the short term, so that Darkan lands will continue to be protected in the long term, when they are mercenaries once again.
Quote from: Munro on March 18, 2011, 10:27:12 PM
They fight alongside BoM and Hammarsett now, but in the future, if the price was right, they'd attack either of those realms, of that I'm pretty sure.
Oh, I'm well aware of that. Kerwin received his first post as a Marshal just about the time Massillion was invaded. Fun times :P
Quote from: Perth on March 18, 2011, 10:04:43 PM
This mountain problem is no one's fault but Darka's. If Darka would walk through Cantril we would be in the CE without the problems of the mountains, but Darka refuses to offend Talerium for some crazy reason.
It's not a problem of just going through "the mountains". It's a problem that the one-region-wide route allowed by the treaty leads straight into a fortification. Aside from the border with Carelia, CE now only has one border region, and it's fortified.
Darka's policy has been to not piss of Talerium for as long as I've been aware of even the basics of Darkan policy, so this is hardly new.
So, in effect, Coria gets out of the war, CE gets a fortified border, and none of the northern realms gain anything of note. That's a really,
really good treaty for Coria. I just don't get why Eston agreed.
Quotenone of the northern realms gain anything of note
I'm assuming your leaders haven't been keeping you updated. Although I'm pretty sure a lot of it has been mentioned within this thread.
Since the peace treaty with Eston, the Northern realms have gained
much more than they would have under normal circumstances.
Coria is agreeing to a lot of the terms (even though we do not have to) as a result of Eston's mercy. Saeculo does not wish for Kerwin or Eston to be punished by his own allies as a result of their peace, and Saeculo has always been willing to compromise.
Since the treaty was signed between Coria and Eston, the Northern realms gained access to Galadia and Belegmon (there is no other access to the CE we can give you). This has been the primary demand of the North since we asked for peace months ago. How is this nothing of note?
There has also been other concessions that Coria has made, and to claim that the North has not benefited is not accurate. Both sides have gained from the peace. If the demands were too harsh we'd have just carried on fighting. It was not an unconditional surrender and we still had the ability to fight, especially with the allied armies aiding us, and any additional loan that they sent.
Edit: That's not to say that we would not have lost, but it would have taken much longer than you think. Your upper hand was gained initially because we got into a 'peace' mindset before the peace was signed. Your primary goal was the CE, not Coria. But now this seems to have changed? Perhaps your government have different goals to the nobles of those respective realms.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 18, 2011, 11:05:19 PM
It's not a problem of just going through "the mountains". It's a problem that the one-region-wide route allowed by the treaty leads straight into a fortification. Aside from the border with Carelia, CE now only has one border region, and it's fortified.
I'm confused. Is the north scared of actually fighting CE while their entire military force is having to focus on defending three realms in the south already? How defended can that region possibly be? Unless there is more than 10-15k cs always defending the region I see little reason for Darka/BoM/Eston//Hammarsett to be worried at all. Isn't the point just to get through to start fighting CE? If you think that CE will be able to prevent you from ever getting through that one region, then I must say CE is a lot stronger than I ever imagined and deserves to win this war.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 19, 2011, 12:12:04 AM
I'm confused. Is the north scared of actually fighting CE while their entire military force is having to focus on defending three realms in the south already? How defended can that region possibly be? Unless there is more than 10-15k cs always defending the region I see little reason for Darka/BoM/Eston//Hammarsett to be worried at all. Isn't the point just to get through to start fighting CE? If you think that CE will be able to prevent you from ever getting through that one region, then I must say CE is a lot stronger than I ever imagined and deserves to win this war.
Talerium and Tara. Don't forget Talerium and Tara.
Quote from: Vellos on March 19, 2011, 12:39:51 AM
Talerium and Tara. Don't forget Talerium and Tara.
I didn't intend on forgetting them. They are Coria's allies as it were. Although, you were fighting Tara and Talerium already. What's the change?
Quote from: Silverfire on March 19, 2011, 12:12:04 AM
I'm confused. Is the north scared of actually fighting CE while their entire military force is having to focus on defending three realms in the south already?
Heck no. We're ready and raring to go. We *want* to have a few good fights. We just don't want to get slaughtered
(And yes the *current* treaty gives the northern realms permission to trael through Coria to attack CE. That's what Darka wanted. I think most of the animosity about the treaty actually comes from the first versions that were presented: Coria = off limits.)
QuoteHow defended can that region possibly be? Unless there is more than 10-15k cs always defending the region I see little reason for Darka/BoM/Eston//Hammarsett to be worried at all
See, I would think that being as informed as you are about the political situation on AT, you would know the real score there. It's not just CE. If we only had to fight CE, it would be no big deal. But the treaty you agreed to with Eston secures Tara's northern border. And since they are not fighting in the south, that frees their entire army to defend CE's northern border.
CE/Tara/Talerium had
30K CS waiting for us in Alaise.
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 01:37:40 AM
Heck no. We're ready and raring to go. We *want* to have a few good fights. We just don't want to get slaughtered
(And yes the *current* treaty gives the northern realms permission to trael through Coria to attack CE. That's what Darka wanted. I think most of the animosity about the treaty actually comes from the first versions that were presented: Coria = off limits.)
Ahh okay, understood.
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 01:37:40 AM
See, I would think that being as informed as you are about the political situation on AT, you would know the real score there. It's not just CE. If we only had to fight CE, it would be no big deal. But the treaty you agreed to with Eston secures Tara's northern border. And since they are not fighting in the south, that frees their entire army to defend CE's northern border.
CE/Tara/Talerium had 30K CS waiting for us in Alaise.
Ahh, well technically I have access to all of the scout reports of the happenings of that battlefront and could check on them after like 5 minutes of searching through messages but I haven't bothered. So yes, technically I should be informed of the exact numbers but I simply haven't had the time to worry about it. Well either way, good for them for putting up such a good defense.
As it stands though, you say Tara isn't fighting in the south so they can worry about defending the north, however as far as I know it was the northern alliance that asked that we include terms such that Tara can't aggressively attack Carelia without being attacked, so you would in effect be holding their forces in the north when they could readily be diverted south.
Interesting the way that politics run things. So much easy when I had just a regular troop leader.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 19, 2011, 01:43:36 AMAhh, well technically I have access to all of the scout reports of the happenings of that battlefront and could check on them after like 5 minutes of searching through messages but I haven't bothered. So yes, technically I should be informed of the exact numbers but I simply haven't had the time to worry about it. Well either way, good for them for putting up such a good defense.
I'm not saying that you should know exact numbers. I'm saying that you should have known that's what Tara would do.
QuoteAs it stands though, you say Tara isn't fighting in the south so they can worry about defending the north, however as far as I know it was the northern alliance that asked that we include terms such that Tara can't aggressively attack Carelia without being attacked, so you would in effect be holding their forces in the north when they could readily be diverted south.
Yep.
QuoteInteresting the way that politics run things. So much easy when I had just a regular troop leader.
For the record, my AT character hates having to deal with politics. All it does is force him have to march in big circles.
QuoteAnd yes the *current* treaty gives the northern realms permission to trael through Coria to attack CE. That's what Darka wanted. I think most of the animosity about the treaty actually comes from the first versions that were presented: Coria = off limits.
There is no 'current' treaty. The only official agreement is the one we have with Eston. The only treaty we have with the Northern Federation is an unofficial spoken one as they are not prepared to sign peace. That being said, Saeculo intends to honour it as best he can.
But I'll give you a hint, holding a proverbial gun at Saeculo's head is certainly not the way to go about gaining whatever you want. He's not that type of character, he's from a militaristic background and takes it as more of a challenge, a red rag to a bull if you will. He won't back down to that type of thing. Kerwin certainly went about the correct way of doing things, and as a result, it will help Eston in the future, as it will be remembered that they showed Coria mercy and there will be no bitterness towards them. It's also helped the Northern Federation, as we've met all of your demands that you wished for. Someone on these forums said that war is fertile, it gives birth to future wars. And usually this is the case, this war has severely damaged the relationship between Hammarsett and Coria, it could have done the same between Coria and Eston and there may have been a future war if both sides felt bitter to one another. Yet because of Kerwin this will not be the case.
Whilst we our loyal to our current allies, Tara, Talerium and yes, the CE. We are also now mindful of Eston, not particularly the other Northern realms, but I'd certainly say Eston. It's just a case of balancing our relationship with them and our current allies whom we are still loyal to. I expect this is the exact same case with Kerwin.
I am envious of Darka however, being able to enjoy the delights of War without having their regions devastated, and a lot of the time even being paid to take part in the fun! Hopefully one day everyone might take the party to Darka's lands :P
When I created Saeculo, he was originally
completely against politics. He hated the political world favouring the more simple strategic military one. He was very brash, outspoken and told people exactly what he thought. Most of all he was honest. None of those are a good trait for a politician :P
Indeed, he only took over as Consul reluctantly due to the ban imposed on Duke Merlin because of that weird bug which banned him after his successful rebellion.
However, he now he does actually enjoy interacting with the political circles. I'd say Sordnaz and Kostaja are similar to himself in their 'warrior' attitude to things.
Quote from: Munro on March 19, 2011, 02:07:22 AM
There is no 'current' treaty. The only official agreement is the one we have with Eston. The only treaty we have with the Northern Federation is an unofficial spoken one as they are not prepared to sign peace. That being said, Saeculo intends to honour it as best he can.
Hammarsett has sent an offer days ago,without requests. The diplomatic relation between Hammarsett and Coria could have changed from war to neutral two days ago.
QuoteHammarsett has sent an offer days ago,without requests. The diplomatic relation between Hammarsett and Coria could have changed from war to neutral two days ago.
The agreements were for 'peace' talks...not 'neutrality' talks. To say you'll sign neutrality so you can attack the CE without coming into conflic with Corian troops, but not sign peace is incredibly suspicious and it just looks like you are all stalling for time so that you can attack the CE and then later Coria. Some rulers have said that it doesn't matter what the relations are, if they are going to attack they will attack. Personally I agree with this, which is why I didn't see the point in signing an alliance with Hammarsett when they were first created (if we were going to be friends, we wouldn't need to be allied to one another, as actions would speak louder than words, turns out I was correct and it was wise not to be allies with Hammarsett).
But all the signs point towards later betrayal and Saeculo wanted to make sure that this wasn't the case. Otherwise, why allow military access to the enemy if Coria was just going to be attacked afterward anyway?
Having had the replies from the Northern rulers, and discussed it in the Corian Senate. Neutrality will be accepted. I just don't have enough hours at the moment to accept it. I'll have to wait until Sunrise.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 18, 2011, 11:05:19 PM
It's not a problem of just going through "the mountains". It's a problem that the one-region-wide route allowed by the treaty leads straight into a fortification. Aside from the border with Carelia, CE now only has one border region, and it's fortified.
The treaty we signed does not restrict us to a "one-region-wide route" it doesn't even mention a route to the CE at all. Have you read the treaty? It merely gives Nazia to Eston. Thanks to Eston and Kerwin playing nice with Coria, the north now have Coria's full permission to roam unopposed through Belegmon and Belegmon, their only regions that provide us access to the Cagilan Empire. There is absolutely nothing else that can be gained from Coria regarding the war with the Cagilan Empire,
what more do you want?Quote from: Bedwyr on March 18, 2011, 11:05:19 PM
Darka's policy has been to not piss of Talerium for as long as I've been aware of even the basics of Darkan policy, so this is hardly new.
Indeed, nothing new. But just as frustrating to Kerwin and Eston nonetheless. Especially when somehow Eston and Kerwin are being blamed for not securing something. What that something is, I don't know. But we're being blamed and having fingers pointed at us for being nice with Coria. I don't why Darka doesn't take any heat for being nice with Talerium when they are actively helping the Cagilan Empire AND possess a far better route into the Cagilan Empire than Coria has ever had.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 18, 2011, 11:05:19 PM
So, in effect, Coria gets out of the war, CE gets a fortified border, and none of the northern realms gain anything of note. That's a really, really good treaty for Coria. I just don't get why Eston agreed.
-Yes, Coria is out of the war. In a good way, though. As in, they aren't fighting us anymore and they aren't helping the Cagilan Empire. This a good thing.
-CE got a fortified border? They have three mountain border regions which we the northern alliance has access to all of now. Yes, Talerium and Tara are defending the CE... I don't see how this would not have happened no matter what peace was signed. We could have annexed every Corian territory to Eston and Hammarsett and still had this problem. How is this in any way the result of the treaty Eston and Coria signed?
-The northern realms didn't gain anything? We gained uncontested access to the Cagilan Empire! What else do you want!?
Eston agreed because it achieved what Eston thought was the primary and most important goal: getting access to the Cagilan Empire and then actually being able to free up our armies to go fight them. This is achieved: full access to the CE for the northern realms, and peace with Coria so we can actually go fight CE. What else should the north have garnered?
What else could we want?
Why, more Corian coin in our pockets, of course. One day it may be as valuable as Hang's Drachenwald coin!
Quote from: ^ban^ on March 19, 2011, 06:31:05 AM
What else could we want?
Why, more Corian coin in our pockets, of course. One day it may be as valuable as Hang's Drachenwald coin!
Well, with the way things are going, lets hope it's the coins of the Empire that soon became so rare!
Quote from: Indirik on March 19, 2011, 01:37:40 AMCE/Tara/Talerium had 30K CS waiting for us in Alaise.
Let me get this straight: We are fighting what is essentially an 8 on 3 war. You have us badly outnumbered in terms of territory, income, nobles, military strength, pretty much every statistic and indicator.
And you are complaining that we somehow managed to field some troops on our choke-point? ???
The truly sad thing here is that CE only declared war on Eston because Coria threatened to break our alliance if we didn't. ::)
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 19, 2011, 09:13:32 AM
The truly sad thing here is that CE only declared war on Eston because Coria threatened to break our alliance if we didn't. ::)
The truly sad thing here is that CE provoked these wars and no one there seems to know it. ::)
Quote from: ^ban^ on March 19, 2011, 09:20:10 AM
The truly sad thing here is that CE provoked these wars and no one there seems to know it. ::)
I have a char in CE's realm council, so... if anyone knew, I knew. Famine may have been a bad/arrogant Prime Minister, but at least he shared his messages with us.
Of course, I'd be lying if I said that CE was just going to sit around and wait for "Too Much Peace". We just didn't want to fight
Eston, but ultimately it didn't take too much persuading. ;)
I wish we had the "save messages" feature a few months earlier. I could have saved all the relevant messages and actually have some evidence to show you guys.
Of course, people needed a reason to jump on the anti-CE bandwagon. Famine was as good a scape-goat as you were ever going to get. I understand. :)
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 19, 2011, 09:13:32 AM
The truly sad thing here is that CE only declared war on Eston because Coria threatened to break our alliance if we didn't. ::)
Oh come on you know that's not true. I don't know who your character is that is on CE's ruling council but that is simply false.
It was a lot closer to a polite suggestion that you don't ignore your allies wishes.
Then again, the truly sad thing is that the only reason Darka started fighting Coria was because CE started trying to do diplomacy for Coria. Demanding things we didn't actually want.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 19, 2011, 11:12:20 AM
It was a lot closer to a polite suggestion that you don't ignore your allies wishes.
That sounds like a threat to me.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on March 19, 2011, 11:15:48 AM
That sounds like a threat to me.
Shhh! I know what a threat is, and this wasn't one of them. Coria laid multiple options on the table for CE's Senate to consider. And just like any normal real life Senate they took forever to deliberate things and make any decision at all. There was no threat, and its hard to describe so long after the fact. Trust me threats have been used since then in different ways but none I'd like to speak of here.
btw, I'm fairly sure I know exactly what I'm talking about since my character was the singular one to actually visit CE in order to meet with their Senate members personally.
Well, fine, like I said, it didn't take too much persuading. CE was willing to take a risk in order to help out an ally. I'm just saying that the suggestion that CE provoked the whole thing does not hold water. We were not entirely blameless, but we didn't get together one day and say "hey let's go piss off eight realms at the same time".
What's more likely? One realm deciding to provoke war with most of the rest of the island? Or a bunch of realms conspiring to take down the biggest realm on the island?
I am fairly certain that Famine never demanded Barad Lacirith. We all knew that Coria did not have enough nobles to expand. Otherwise Shanandoah would have went to Coria.
People are making all sorts of accusations at a character that isn't even around anymore. The player is not exactly here to defend himself. Like I said, the perfect scapegoat.
This is Yangfan, by the way. You can see the family affiliation by clicking on the poster's name, assuming that he set it up correctly in his profile.
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 19, 2011, 11:55:55 AM
Well, fine, like I said, it didn't take too much persuading. CE was willing to take a risk in order to help out an ally. I'm just saying that the suggestion that CE provoked the whole thing does not hold water. We were not entirely blameless, but we didn't get together one day and say "hey let's go piss off eight realms at the same time".
What's more likely? One realm deciding to provoke war with most of the rest of the island? Or a bunch of realms conspiring to take down the biggest realm on the island?
I am fairly certain that Famine never demanded Barad Lacirith. We all knew that Coria did not have enough nobles to expand. Otherwise Shanandoah would have went to Coria.
People are making all sorts of accusations at a character that isn't even around anymore. The player is not exactly here to defend himself. Like I said, the perfect scapegoat.
This is Yangfan, by the way. You can see the family affiliation by clicking on the poster's name, assuming that he set it up correctly in his profile.
Your logic is so flawed that it almost hurt my eyes.
CE didnt piss of all realms at once, it was done over a long time and that has been clearly stated in public. Repeated offensive and power abusing was the reason for most declarations of war presented, I do not know if the CE nobles got all declarations presented for them.
And you cant be sure what Famine had asked for as that character did NOT share all with his council, I know that the current ruler of CE have had a few aha moments trying to figure out what happened before Famine vanished and I am sure that more information is shared today. Saying that your character should know about all cause he was in the council if flawed logic as Milan have discovered when stepping up from judge to ruler. In the beginning of the war it was CE who made the demands towards Eston and it was CE who told everyone to stay out or feel the wrath, I see that as a taking a lead role in the war and as provoking by power abuse. Coria defended themself saying that they wanted a 1vs1 war from the start and was not to blame for CE joining the war by their side but as we have been told here that was another lie to put on the pile.
What I want to see now is CE stop acting like a turtle and starts to go offensive as everything will break if hammered long enough on!
QuoteThe truly sad thing here is that CE only declared war on Eston because Coria threatened to break our alliance if we didn't.
Come on, that's a bit stretched, we did no such thing. How many times has Saeculo complained at Enri for the Empires heavy handedness? If we've ever threatened to become less friendly, it was because of the way you used to push us around. The reason I found the accusation that we were the CE's lapdogs so amusing is because we had considered lowering relations with the CE if they continued to push us around for that very reason, that they were treating us as such but we were not.
We are supporting the CE now because yes, we are their colony and yes we are their allies. We want to be loyal to our allies, and we've certainly done everything we can do for the CE, we couldn't do much more save being destroyed and our lands given to Hammarsett. Coria is still loyal to the CE and whilst it cannot aid it Militarily any longer, that doesn't mean it's not rooting for it, we are happy if it's a mutually respecting relationship.
At the end of the day, our friendship with the CE is important, but you've not treated us much different to the other realms who have problems with the way you've acted. Yeah you've not threatened us, but we've not appreciated being pushed around. Enri himself apologised for Famine to Saeculo at the start of this war. Even before this war, when we refused you all military access to BoM, Tara threatened to take Lothruin from us! That was one of the reasons you were able to then have access.
Coria is in one of the most strategic positions on Atamara, and we are constantly asked for military access and then threatened if we do not give it. Carelia invaded us last time to get to Eston. It was only when we threatened to declare War that they left our lands. But for many Corians it was an unofficial invasion.
In the League of the Eagle and amongst the Generals, Saeculo had been stating his desire to attack Darka rather than Eston. The only reason that this didn't happen was because we couldn't have gained access to Darka because Talerium wouldn't let us due to the border agreement (and they had a bigger issue with Eston at the time anyway) and we believed Eston would refuse us access to attack Darka. (Infact now that I think about it, military access to Darka was actually one of the requests we made to Eston when we asked for peace).
Then given the 'too much peace', their actions against us in terms of halting trade, threatening us with starvation and then offering enemies of our realm sanctuary, it's only understandable that we declared war on Eston as these were at least two genuine IC reasons for doing so. Plus we were told we had the full support of our allies, we didn't have to demand this support as was stated.
It wasn't a war of annihilation however as we were only ever going to take a single region from them, ask that their Judge be removed and that we be allowed military access to Darka. We didn't ever intend for it to last this long, much less try and destroy their realm.
It's ironic that at that time, the situation was reversed and Eston was the equivalent of Coria, it was just in the way between us and Darka and I believe the main war would have been between our allies and Darka (well that's not a certain, but it was possible).
It's even more interesting that given this situation, the peace terms we requested were almost identical to the peace terms they requested. It just shows that neither realm look at one another as hated enemies.
QuoteCoria defended themself saying that they wanted a 1vs1 war from the start and was not to blame for CE joining the war by their side but as we have been told here that was another lie to put on the pile
You shouldn't be getting the OOC and IC confused. There is no way you would know for a fact that was a lie apart from the fact it was stated in these forums.
Even now, with everyone being completely honest, it's easy for the truth to be distorted. People remember things differently, people have different reasons for their actions and then remember them as being '
the' reason for that happening.
Originally, I thought that the sole reason for War against Eston was because of the Herunumen incident. He did try to kill me after all. But then I realised that Merlin, a Duke with a large city to feed, well, his main reason was because of the ceased trade. Two different reasons, and two different characters putting different emphasis on those reasons. Whilst I didn't really even originally consider the food issue, it was clearly a reason for war for Merlin.
Saeculo became a bit unstuck because of this and was accused of lying, even though, as a player, I've attempted for him to tell the truth on every occasion.
Quote from: Perth on March 19, 2011, 06:05:35 AM
The treaty we signed does not restrict us to a "one-region-wide route" it doesn't even mention a route to the CE at all. Have you read the treaty? It merely gives Nazia to Eston. Thanks to Eston and Kerwin playing nice with Coria, the north now have Coria's full permission to roam unopposed through Belegmon and Belegmon, their only regions that provide us access to the Cagilan Empire. There is absolutely nothing else that can be gained from Coria regarding the war with the Cagilan Empire, what more do you want?
Better spies, evidently. The only version of the treaty I've seen IC talks about Coria "possibly" allowing northern armies through at a later date. Given what I know of Battlemaster diplomacy, "possibly" generally means "ahahahahah you're funny, no." Which meant that only Nazia could be traveled through. Which meant that armies could camp behind the fortifications in Sauvia as that was the only way in.
Quote
Indeed, nothing new. But just as frustrating to Kerwin and Eston nonetheless. Especially when somehow Eston and Kerwin are being blamed for not securing something. What that something is, I don't know. But we're being blamed and having fingers pointed at us for being nice with Coria. I don't why Darka doesn't take any heat for being nice with Talerium when they are actively helping the Cagilan Empire AND possess a far better route into the Cagilan Empire than Coria has ever had.
Oh, they are. But when there's this convenient surrender treaty (again, the info I had was evidently out of date) that should have rectified the problem anyway...
QuoteBetter spies, evidently. The only version of the treaty I've seen IC talks about Coria "possibly" allowing northern armies through at a later date.
Better communication with your leaders... rather than spies ;)
This has been agreed IC also, not just OOC. There are some terms that come with it, but you've opened up your front. The reason that clause was added was because I wanted it to be emphasized that Coria was
allowing your armies access, and that it wasn't a god given right for you to be trampling across our lands without repercussion. It also shows us to be reasonable, we're allowing you more than the treaty entails. We don't have to, but it shows that Coria can be negotiated with.
Some things are acceptable and others are not. If we say that something is not, we really do mean it, there's no "call my bluff" with Saeculo. He's not a politician, he's a military leader. He's willing to compromise but if he says something he means it. He said he'd be willing to discuss greater access in the future and he did. He also agreed to it. There's not much more I can say to that other than it's just a little quirk that Saeculo has. You'll gain more in negotiations with him as a friend than as an enemy, and I'm hoping that this is what people are slowly starting to realise.
I can't emphasise enough that this peace was not an unconditional surrender. We want better relations with Eston, we don't see them a typical 'Northern' realm. Kerwin has gained them a lot of trust again, trust which was lost through the actions of Athena and Jean.
The demands of the Northern realms that Jean step down has actually helped the relationship between Coria and Eston. I know this wasn't intentional, but Saeculo quite likes Kerwin. You can tell a lot more about the type of person someone is when they have the upperhand. Kerwin showed mercy and has gained a lot of respect from certain people because of that. Yeah maybe Eston's allies don't like it, but then, Coria's allies didn't like it when we initially denied them access to fight Eston in BoM.
Coria allows us passage? Ha! You didn't seem very adept at stopping us even when we didn't have permission :P
Quote from: Munro on March 19, 2011, 03:38:01 PM
Better communication with your leaders... rather than spies ;)
No, we're still at spies. I play in Carelia, not in the north. Thus, the situation is quite important, but I don't get as much info as I'd like.
Quote
I can't emphasise enough that this peace was not an unconditional surrender. We want better relations with Eston, we don't see them a typical 'Northern' realm. Kerwin has gained them a lot of trust again, trust which was lost through the actions of Athena and Jean.
And with full passage rights,
I am perfectly happy with the treaty. I want those Vikings and Darkans ravaging the CE's north ASAP. The information I had told me that they couldn't do that, and I am wonderfully happy that it was my information that was inaccurate rather than the treaty being what I was informed it was.
QuoteCoria allows us passage? Ha! You didn't seem very adept at stopping us even when we didn't have permission
Really? Because I didn't see your lot in the CE before we agreed to peace ;) :P I'd say we were very successful at stopping you hitting the CE's northern borders.
You WERE the CE's northern border during the war ;)
I do think it is important to note again the difference between OOC (here on the forum) and IC (within the game). A lot of what has been said here, especially that stuff revolving around when the war began and communications between Coria and CE is not IC readily available information to a lot of people here in the forum. Very few people in fact know of specific discussions which have been alluded to here. I'm just saying let's be sure that we all know where that line is to be drawn.
For instance, the fact that Coria did want it to be a 1v1 war is true in fact, and we didn't want all of the other alliances joining in on the battle.(Actually 1v2, because Talerium + Coria is similar strength to Eston) Coria went to CE to secure defensive aid if things got out of hand due to other northern alliances joining the war. Curiously this also caused northern alliances to join the war, but still.
However, most of these discussions couldn't be proven true or false by anyone except those directly involved in such discussions with Coria's leadership. I.E. Me, and one or two other people.
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 19, 2011, 09:13:32 AM
Let me get this straight: We are fighting what is essentially an 8 on 3 war. You have us badly outnumbered in terms of territory, income, nobles, military strength, pretty much every statistic and indicator.
And you are complaining that we somehow managed to field some troops on our choke-point? ???
Not complaining, just describing the situation. The poster before said there were 10-15K. Well, that was just a
bit low. :p
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 19, 2011, 09:40:54 AMI wish we had the "save messages" feature a few months earlier. I could have saved all the relevant messages and actually have some evidence to show you guys.
The "message save" feature will
not save messages past the 30-day expiration time. They still expire like all the other messages. "saving" messages is not a permanent archive.
Perhaps the "saved messages" name is a bit of a misnomer.
Wait, Coria told you guys that they wanted a 1v1 war originally? That's not what they told us. ;D
It's nice to know (OOCly at least) that Coria was quite willing to throw CE under the proverbial bus if it came to it. I have taught you guys well. 8)
I was under the impression that the northern realms was so dedicated to the "narrative" that they had concocted that they were ignoring reality.
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 20, 2011, 01:33:51 AM
I have taught you guys well. 8)
Pssh, I taught you everything you know. Simple clerical error caused Enri to be appointed as General instead of Merlin when Lianna stepped down...
QuoteCoria was quite willing to throw CE under the proverbial bus if it came to it
That's not true. We were encouraged to sign a peace with the North by the allied rulers. I really don't know what else we could have done, we just don't have the resources to hold back the combined armies of the North. We were limited to a defensive war for one reason or another, and everyone knows the best defence is a good offence. Our defences were slowly being eroded away whilst the Northern realms were allowed to recover and regain strength. Strategically speaking, Hammarsett should have been knocked out of the War. They would have been more vulnerable to such attacks than Coria. Tara could have easily accomplished this.
Plus we've not abandoned the CE, we've had multiple offers in which we could gain more lands from the CE to make up for the losses we have sustained in this War. This was respectfully declined by Saeculo. We're honestly not throwing you under the bus. You should know this given that you have a character in our military council ;)
Quote from: Munro on March 20, 2011, 02:59:46 AM
That's not true. We were encouraged to sign a peace with the North by the allied rulers. I really don't know what else we could have done, we just don't have the resources to hold back the combined armies of the North. We were limited to a defensive war for one reason or another, and everyone knows the best defence is a good offence. Our defences were slowly being eroded away whilst the Northern realms were allowed to recover and regain strength. Strategically speaking, Hammarsett should have been knocked out of the War. They would have been more vulnerable to such attacks than Coria. Tara could have easily accomplished this.
Plus we've not abandoned the CE, we've had multiple offers in which we could gain more lands from the CE to make up for the losses we have sustained in this War. This was respectfully declined by Saeculo. We're honestly not throwing you under the bus. You should know this given that you have a character in our military council ;)
That's not what he's referring to.
QuoteThat's not what he's referring to.
What's he referring to then? The whole we wanted a 1vs1 thing was well before I got involved in the political side of things :P
Come now. Did CE have any say in the matter in the end?
CE: So how long can you hold the line, Coria?
Coria: Actually our capital is being looted because our Duke wandered into enemy territory on an invitation. We decided to loot Hammarsett instead of running TOs like we should have been. We're pretty close to surrendering here.
CE: Could you please try to hold on? Tara and Talerium are still backing you up.
Coria: Hey... Eston promised us some CE regions if we switched sides...
CE: ... Fine. Do what you need to do to survive. :-\
QuoteCome now. Did CE have any say in the matter in the end?
Haha I don't want to be giving too much away in an OOC forum and after this message, I won't be going into details about the type of things I've been discussing already, as it gives away a lot of the secrets that some characters don't and shouldn't have information to (and rightly so), but you should certainly speak to Aldarion and Ottar if you think we acted alone ;) That was certainly not the case, and it really didn't go down like that.
We brainstormed and it was decided it would be a good idea for Coria to try and get peace. This was months ago now, long before we started taking the heavy damage that we had been more recently.
I agree it was a mistake to raze the foritifcation in Elost rather than attempt a TO of Lyton, but we learned from that mistake. At the time, I still believed the relations between Hammarsett and Coria could be spared. We recieved reports that Hammarsett wanted peace etc. so I thought a less harsh approach would be better. This turned out not to be the case.
As it happens, out of all the Northern realms, the relationship which has most been damaged has been with Hammarsett. So yeah, if I knew it was going to turn out the way it did, I'd have ordered the TO rather than damaging military infrastructure. But for their allies, Hammarsett wouldn't be in this war at all. Their organisation at the start of the war was a shambles. They had hardly any RC's, a significant part of their forces were captured by Militia in their first offensive action and had we damaged any of their regions significantly, they'd still be unable to recruit an army now probably. Coria should have capitalised on this, we didn't and that was my fault.
Yet there was no other chance to correct our biggest mistake as Tara did exactly the same thing with Hammarsett, that Eston did with Coria. However unlike the other Northern realms, we didn't kick up as much fuss.
Other than the CE, the only other allied realm taking a beating was Coria...we've taken just as much damage as the CE in your defence. You have a character in Coria, in the military council. You know exactly what the situation is in Coria. The reason it took so long for peace to be signed was because we tried to get the best deal possible for the CE in our peace negotiations. I'm sure the leaders of the Northern Federation can confirm this was the case. It was only after the peace treaty with Eston that Coria agreed to give military access through its own lands. And even then, this was discussed with the allied leaders beforehand.
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 20, 2011, 04:50:35 AM
Come now. Did CE have any say in the matter in the end?
CE: So how long can you hold the line, Coria?
Coria: Actually our capital is being looted because our Duke wandered into enemy territory on an invitation. We decided to loot Hammarsett instead of running TOs like we should have been. We're pretty close to surrendering here.
CE: Could you please try to hold on? Tara and Talerium are still backing you up.
Coria: Hey... Eston promised us some CE regions if we switched sides...
CE: ... Fine. Do what you need to do to survive. :-\
Oh come on! You have to give me a bit more credit than that. You're making me look like an idiot when our two characters have known each other forever...
Not to mention you make Coria look very bad with that quote. You know that's not true in the least of how things went down.
P.S. They offered me chocolate, how could I not leave my capitol so I could get captured?
Haha. I'm sorry. You know I have to work in some counter-propaganda into this thread. Otherwise uninformed people who read this thread are going to think that Cagilans are all baby-eaters.
Let's try to keep IC and OOC separate here, even though this entire thread is pretty much a mockery of IC/OOC separation.
I agree that Coria did an excellent job on the negotiations. You have definitely bought CE more time. So there. ;)
QuoteCagilans are all baby-eaters.
They ate my poor little Jimmy! :'(
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 20, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Cagilans are all baby-eaters.
Glad to hear one of you finally admit it.
Quote from: Munro on March 20, 2011, 03:45:58 PM
They ate my poor little Jimmy! :'(
He was alright, not enough meat around the bones though.
Quote from: Telrunya on March 20, 2011, 08:11:40 PM
He was alright, not enough meat around the bones though.
Alright??? Are you kidding me? My old man's boots would've tasted better! ;D ;D
Just to hopin and explain to bit Talerium and Darkas relations.
Eston is wondering why we dont attack Talerium?
Answer:
Because Talerium is our ally. We took a risk and put Eston above Talerium already when we decided to help Eston when Talerium attacked there(if it would have been only Talerium, we would have stayed neutral again). Both Eston and Talerium are important friends of Darka. Talerium have been securing our borders for a long long time and i would not throw that away just cause i want put my hand on CE´s pockets.
I wont interfere Taleriums and Estons relations, Eston wishes to counter attack Tal, go ahead... If i would be fair to Talerium i would defend them if other realms join... but i guess i wont do that... unless Talerium gives us free passage to CE lands :P
Caglians are baby-eaters?
Well I do not believe that is true or there would be no Caglian children around, what I do know is that they ride on horses for fun and they use water to bath in and they prefer some kind of soap while doing so? Any Viking would rather eat their first born then to jump into water or even worse...drink it!
Pagans is what they are! horse lovers and they small like flowers and pine...
Quote from: jaune on March 21, 2011, 02:27:03 PM
I wont interfere Taleriums and Estons relations
But you will interfere in Coria and Eston relations...
Of course, we don't even like you :P
Quote from: Sacha on March 21, 2011, 05:42:39 PM
Of course, we don't even like you :P
and Eston doesn't like Talerium? What's the difference? Eston and Coria had a border agreement that benefited both realms before the war, and wanted to continue it afterword but because that is the EXACT same thing that Talerium and Darka do, it is unacceptable?
Just pointing it out really...
Quote from: Silverfire on March 21, 2011, 05:18:56 PM
But you will interfere in Coria and Eston relations...
Well sacking your capital, looting nearby regions for fun etc give us some right to participate in all that treaty thing...
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 20, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Let's try to keep IC and OOC separate here, even though this entire thread is pretty much a mockery of IC/OOC separation.
Yes, I rather agree. For me it's not worth discussing anything political like this on the forums because of this exact problem. It's a pity that this is where most of the posting is happening though.
Oh well.
PS, I love this emoticon: ???
Yep, i interfered(slightly) Eston & Coria relations cause their treaty with you made our job too hard. I asked Eston to cancel treaty so we could negotiate better one. There is big diffrence to interfere Ally vs. Ally war than Ally vs. Enemy war. We need Eston and Eston needs us, but nor Darka or Eston needs Coria. Thats why i think Darka and Eston can ask things from each other to keep common intrests going.
After initial "fumble" Eston handled situation well, they tried to find solution to problems... which i think we got pretty close.
I have also interfered Eston and Talerium war, by siding Eston when it turned to be gangbang. I didnt want to Coria to become my neighbour. I dint want CE´s "child" to be my neighbour. Even thought i agreed some points what Coria/CE/Talerium were demanding from Eston, but disagreed heavily actions to achieve it.
Same kind of interference Eston tried to do Darka and asked us to run over Talerium. We disagreed on that. It is perfectly all right to discuss realms diplomacy between allies. We are not always agreeing each other, but thats what friendship is... to get over disagreements without slaughtering each other.
Regarding both of the main points of contention in this thread as I see them (Darka refusing to touch Talerium and the Northern Alliance's anger about Eston's treaty):
The Cagilan Empire functions very much like a real Empire, particularly in the manner that they create and maintain client states to secure their borders. Coria and Talerium are two such client states. Between them, they shield the Empire from direct assaults on their territory (takeovers). If CE's territory is not in play, the worst the Empire has to worry about from the northern realms is a looting spree. Damaging, yes, but it's hardly going to end them. It's mostly just going to make them mad. At best it could help Carelia, but if CE has anywhere near as much gold stockpiled as I think they do then it's really going to have minimal effect on their war effort.
Not only that, but both client states contribute to the military might of the Empire. I know Darka always says that Talerium are their allies, but this notion is false. What they are is not Darka's enemies. They are very much allies and clients of the Cagilan Empire. When was the last time they *didn't* support CE in a military conflict? When was the last time they *did* support Darka in a conflict the Empire wasn't involved in? They are a part and parcel of the military and diplomatic power that the Empire wields. Breaking Talerium and turning it against CE would be a major blow to the Cagilans by costing them an ally and opening up their western borders. Leaving them alone is a mistake, as for the entire duration of this war they will fight for the Cagilans and shield an entire section of their borders. They might as well be part of CE for all that they have ever demonstated one lick of independence from them in recent years.
My contention is that we have no plan and no way to actually *destroy* the Cagilan Empire. As it stands, only Carelia can do any real damage by seizing regions. None of the other realms involved are in a position to do that. If the war goes against Carelia, the entire effort will collapse and be for nothing. That is one reason why the treaty with Coria was an enormous strategic mistake in my opinion. What needed to happen was that Coria needed to be broken and turned against the Cagilans. Then the northern realms could have assisted Coria in expanding into CE, giving the north the ability to truly threaten CE by taking territory. The same argument applies to Talerium. The mere existence of those realms as unshakable allies of the Cagilans protects the Empire and adds to its power.
If CE comes out of this war intact (even with somewhat less territory) with Coria, Talerium and Tara as allies still, then everyone that opposes them has lost. That's what everyone doesn't seem to understand. To break their power we must either destroy their allies or turn them against them. Until that happens, destroying the Empire itself might as well be a pipe dream. That's one reason that my character (who shares this opinion) views Eston's move as a betrayal. It guarantees that Coria comes out of the war intact and doesn't do enough to move them out of CE's orbit. Meanwhile it also restricts our ability to seize territory from CE. I know the odds against CE look long on paper, but they're in a fantastic position. They just need to keep Carelia moving backwards and they will win eventually. The whole thing comes apart without Carelia, and it is almost guaranteed that an opportunity to split the alliance will come up sooner or later. If they're smart they'll exploit the split between Eston and its allies.
Quote from: Geronus on March 23, 2011, 10:23:21 PM
The Cagilan Empire functions very much like a real Empire, particularly in the manner that they create and maintain client states to secure their borders. Coria and Talerium are two such client states.
While everyone is perfectly entitled to their opinion, and I respect that, the fact that your character is not a realm of Talerium, Coria, or CE makes this a very hard statement to make. Yes, it may appear as such to one outside of the alliance that CE currently maintains but a simple statement like this is false, at the very least for Coria. I can only speak for Coria as my character is Corian and happens to help a lot with diplomacy in our realm.
Now, I can almost guarantee that CE began the idea of creating the Corian colony with the idea of it doing exactly as you have said. However, as one of the original colony members, I can say for sure that things have not exactly happened the way that CE would have liked them to with Coria. We haven't done everything they've wanted us to do, and it reached a point where there was very broad disagreement and distrust between the two realms. This has since been abated, just as the disdain for Eston has largely been abated since the signing of the treaty, but Coria is far from a client state of CE. Yes, we are their ally and our military prowess has at times increased the strength of the "empire" that CE may maintain but we can't be said to be a puppet realm of them. Many of our CE allies were upset that we signed a treaty to get us out of the war and can no longer support them in their trans-continental fight.
As it stands, a vast majority of your arguments though stand very true, and I'm surprised you're one of the first to actually state it. Although, I do think it a bit overly ambitious to seek to destroy CE utterly and completely due to the simple mechanics of the situation. CE is the single most populous realm on Atamara and it will be very hard to destroy any realm that large in any reasonable amount of time. In fact I don't see it as feasibly possible unless EVERY realm on Atamara fought against them. The fact is that destroying realms is NEVER taken lightly and is not easy to do before a realm either surrenders in which it is expected they are at least spared or realms begin to think twice about destroying a realm completely as they wouldn't want to be utterly wiped off the island if they were in a similar situation. As one of the few rulers who has ever personally destroyed a realm, I can say it is a very hard thing to do both character wise and as a player because you know that every realm has so much history.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 23, 2011, 11:08:19 PM
Although, I do think it a bit overly ambitious to seek to destroy CE utterly and completely due to the simple mechanics of the situation.
If you don't kill them, or at a minimum remove their advantages for a future conflict, you might as well have lost. They'll just come back later at a more opportune time and take revenge. What other goal could we possibly have?
Personally, I would count it a victory if we were able to destroy or turn their buffer states in the course of the war, even if they themselves survive it. To break their power requires dismantling their alliance bloc. So far as I can see (from the limited information I have), their remaining allies are slavishly loyal, so the only alternative is to break them. Start taking those realms apart until they seek terms and then force them to turn on the Empire. Keep the territory you take from them, then as part of the peace help them get territory back at the Empire's expense. My character (who is admittedly from Hammarsett :)) would have liked to see Barad Gardor go to Hammarsett while the northern alliance offered to help Coria claim part or all of the Duchy of Eaglin in recompense. Unfortunately Eston's short-sightedness (again, character perspective) means that that option is basically gone. Darka could easily take a duchy or more off of Talerium then offer to help them take Cagil and Calis. If you askme that's the only way we come out of this war on top. Otherwise, if Carelia ends up getting knocked out of the war, CE's enemies won't get an opportunity this good for a *very* long time.
Carpe Diem, that's what I say.
Quote from: Silverfire on March 23, 2011, 11:08:19 PM
Yes, we are their ally and our military prowess has at times increased the strength of the "empire" that CE may maintain but we can't be said to be a puppet realm of them. Many of our CE allies were upset that we signed a treaty to get us out of the war and can no longer support them in their trans-continental fight.
As to this, the day Coria turns against the Empire at anything less than gunpoint is the day Laszlo eats his boots ;D.
I admit I was surprised to come away from reading this thread with the impression that Coria will actually stay neutral. I had assumed that the scope of your agreement was limited to the northern allies and that the Corian army would be fighting Carelia alongside the Cagilans in no time. It is clear that Coria doesn't take orders from the Empire, but can you honestly say that Coria's alliance with CE isn't ironclad? If I were in power in Coria, I'd be all too aware of the possible consequences of letting my relationship with the Empire be anything less than friendly. After all, look at what they did to your predecessors. You might not be willing to fight to the death for them, but you wouldn't have made peace if you weren't getting militarily hammered, and I confidently predict that Coria will once again be one of the Cagilan Empire's allies in their next conflict, assuming we all live to see the day (and I think we will).
Quote from: Geronus on March 24, 2011, 12:41:00 AM
My character (who is admittedly from Hammarsett :)) would have liked to see Barad Gardor go to Hammarsett while the northern alliance offered to help Coria claim part or all of the Duchy of Eaglin in recompense. Unfortunately Eston's short-sightedness (again, character perspective) means that that option is basically gone. Darka could easily take a duchy or more off of Talerium then offer to help them take Cagil and Calis.
You don't understand. These things
were offered time and again and outright
refused time and again. I practically offered the Duchy of Eaglin to Coria on a silver platter several times, and they did not want it. Darka also simply refuses to consider taking territory from Talerium again and again after it was repeatedly being brought up.
You're completely right. The best way to take out the power of CE is to deconstruct their power bloc, but the "short-sightedness of Eston" is not the reason it isn't happening exactly that way. In fact, the whole point of the Eston-Coria treaty is to begin the process of giving Coria an alternative ally to the CE.
It remains to be seen if anything will work out they way we hope it will. This war could still definitely go either way; it's actually quite fun. It's one of the first wars on Atamara in YEARS that you pretty much automatically know the eventual outcome by the day it starts.
There is more to the noble way that just grabbing land wherever you see it. Eston, having little in the way of honor and dignity, would not understand such things ;)
I have to disagree when it comes to the war having a clear outcome in advance, history tells us otherwise as more then once have unseen things occurred that swayed the winds of war towards the designated winner(s).
The unholy alliance that defeated Hasland was one of the first and it came to be a surprise for all involved when the alliance formed and turned against Hasland, the fall of Norland is also an good example on how things can change as they were to expand by getting regions for free but in the end they killed them self! Anything can happen and all it takes are acts of a new ruler or someone who decides to switch side...
What makes this war fun is that all realms are involved so the possibilities that something will happen is greater then ever before.
Quote from: Geronus on March 23, 2011, 10:23:21 PM
The Cagilan Empire functions very much like a real Empire, particularly in the manner that they create and maintain client states to secure their borders. Coria and Talerium are two such client states.
This is factually untrue. Talerium was one of the original realms. How could it have been created by CE?
You would know this if you did a little research first:
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Original_Realms_Project#Atamara
Semantics. To create a client state doesn't necessarily mean they created the realm, just that they set the realm up as a client state. You can do this to an existing realm
Precisely. The "create" language was aimed at Coria anyway. I'm well aware that Talerium has been around forever. However, I maintain that they are a client state of the Cagilan Empire.
Here I must come to the defence of Talerium, they are a totally independent realm and has been so for as long as I can remember.
Meh... that didn't stop them from following CE around like a good pet :P
oh boy, when i learn to stay out from this thread?
I ofcourse know that Talerium values CE more important ally than Darka. I know we could crush Talerium with Eston and BoM and make our life a bit easier... for a while.
But the main thing is, KK have said to Captain that Darka will honor our treaty that it will not use their lands to attack Cagilan Empire and Talerium have promised to secure our border from Cagilan Empires attacks... they Always have. What it would make KK and Darka look? First Talerium protects our border for years, and next second Darka breaks everything and attacks them? Darka doesnt have too many friends... and it really wants to keep those who are.
No, even thought we arent each others lap dogs, we are still allies. We have some good history together and we have some bad history together... time will show what kind of future we will have together.
About destroying Cagilan Empire... we can destroy their income, their infrastructure... then we can start colonies where ever we wish.
If all goes well, this war will last propably over year easily. Darka prolly have most gold stocked on its pockets on whole continent, their regions arent threatened... they can keep this going for several years if needed... time will show how peoples nerves will stand this. Carelia is ofcourse the one who gets biggest hits on "our side". How long Tara feels just defending CE? I bet they are itching already to attack Carelia... that would ofcourse make CArelias situation pretty hard, but it would also mean very wide border to defend for Tara.
Indeed intresting times.
Quote from: jaune on March 24, 2011, 09:45:34 PM
About destroying Cagilan Empire... we can destroy their income, their infrastructure... then we can start colonies where ever we wish.
If all goes well, this war will last propably over year easily. Darka prolly have most gold stocked on its pockets on whole continent, their regions arent threatened... they can keep this going for several years if needed... time will show how peoples nerves will stand this. Carelia is ofcourse the one who gets biggest hits on "our side". How long Tara feels just defending CE? I bet they are itching already to attack Carelia... that would ofcourse make CArelias situation pretty hard, but it would also mean very wide border to defend for Tara.
Indeed intresting times.
Darka's gold and secure borders are all well and good for Darka, but small consolation to the rest of us ;).
I don't think that after however many weeks or months of looting we'll have high enough sympathy anywhere in the Empire to run a CTO. And if Tara starts in on Carelia, I predict a swift end to their participation in the war. They're having enough trouble handling the Empire alone. Sure Tara's got long borders, but so does Carelia, and most of Tara's borders are with them or are 'safe' borders with their allies CE and Coria. They only have four regions that border any other realm, which is yet another reason why letting Coria weasel out of the war was an epically bad idea (*cough* opinion, not fact, before Perth strangles me :) ).
We can speculate all we want and I sure want as many ideas as possible posted in this thread so I can look back later on and say... what? Not a single one predicted this :)
We have seen wars turning its tide in less then a day before and instead of getting the predicted or so call obvious outcome something happened that no one thought of or the stronger part actually lost due to bad tactics. This war is however a promising one and I am sad that I cant view it from the eyes of a CE player but I guess they must be excited as well now that their strength and cunning will be put to a real test.
As for being able to do a successful CTO, its easy even if the region itself is looted and burnt beyond recognition, just let the one who start the CTO being one from a realm that hasnt looted that much...I guess The Barony will be out of the question ;)
Much can still happen thou and who knows maybe the next colony will be founded in Sale *Sordnaz will however flee with all mead before that happends*
There was big battle at Calis. Looks like northern realms were able to cause some damage before they got beaten at Calis(this based on income drop of CE at statistics).
That would be Darka burning down their northern regions.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on April 02, 2011, 07:27:21 PM
That would be Darka burning down their northern regions.
Yes. The other realms pretty much hit a massive fail all round. ???
Darka's allies !@#$ing up... gee, where have I heard that before...
Quote from: Sacha on April 02, 2011, 09:14:06 PM
Darka's allies !@#$ing up... gee, where have I heard that before...
Wait, Darka has allies?!?!?
I thought they were just bloodthirsty mongrels who convinced other realms to sign certain treaties so their children wouldn't be eaten?
The bloodthirsty mongrels part is just our hobby.
Quote from: Silverfire on April 02, 2011, 09:54:06 PM
Wait, Darka has allies?!?!?
I thought they were just bloodthirsty mongrels who convinced other realms to sign certain treaties so their children wouldn't be eaten?
You sure seem kinda butthurt...
Silverfire,
Darka always had allies,the fact that some of her allies consider them as such only when Darka saves their buttocks doesn't make Darka the one imposing herself to others.You seem pretty upset with this treaty thing to the point it makes me wonder.Eston invaded you,tricked you as Duke out of the city just to have Darka sack it down..and you seem bitter towards Darka wanting to gain a safe passage to CE.I don't get it :P
Quote from: Misericordia on April 03, 2011, 01:48:51 AM
Silverfire,
Darka always had allies,the fact that some of her allies consider them as such only when Darka saves their buttocks doesn't make Darka the one imposing herself to others.You seem pretty upset with this treaty thing to the point it makes me wonder.Eston invaded you,tricked you as Duke out of the city just to have Darka sack it down..and you seem bitter towards Darka wanting to gain a safe passage to CE.I don't get it :P
To be clear, I was making a joke. Although it wasn't all in a joking manner. Who's to say that IC wise a realm of mercenaries wouldn't have some rumors floating around about them.
I doubt you would understand much behind it as few on Atamara do. At any rate, I look forward to the day that my character can lead an army into sacking the Darkan capitol as it sacked my character's city. Sadly this will be far in the future, but as a true veteran of Atamaran politics I'm willing to wait.
And us Darkans will be sharpening our swords waiting for your attempt.
Quote from: Silverfire on April 03, 2011, 02:22:43 AM
To be clear, I was making a joke. Although it wasn't all in a joking manner. Who's to say that IC wise a realm of mercenaries wouldn't have some rumors floating around about them.
I doubt you would understand much behind it as few on Atamara do. At any rate, I look forward to the day that my character can lead an army into sacking the Darkan capitol as it sacked my character's city. Sadly this will be far in the future, but as a true veteran of Atamaran politics I'm willing to wait.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY
That's all folks.
Oh i bet i would Silverfire if you count the fact i had a family in Darka since 2005....see this is my second account and i had Lavigna in Darka for many years and i am very well aware of the politics in Atamara as i have joined enough realms and held leader positions multiple times there.
You may have a general issue with Darka and that is of course your problem but still in this particular situation..you are wrong. :P
Also if you are a true veteran you would know that such wishes are far beyond reality.I would give your dream a 5% of success in any future :D But then again that's just me
Quote from: Misericordia on April 03, 2011, 04:30:23 AM
Oh i bet i would Silverfire if you count the fact i had a family in Darka since 2005....see this is my second account and i had Lavigna in Darka for many years and i am very well aware of the politics in Atamara as i have joined enough realms and held leader positions multiple times there.
You may have a general issue with Darka and that is of course your problem but still in this particular situation..you are wrong. :P
Also if you are a true veteran you would know that such wishes are far beyond reality.I would give your dream a 5% of success in any future :D But then again that's just me
I never said that I knew I would be successful. You may know very well Atamaran politics, but that is not what I was referring. I was referring to the ability of certain individuals to shape the future of Atamara far above and beyond what their rank or station may contend for it to seem. Atamaran politics follow a trend, and many of the efforts of certain leaders can be predicted. These predictions allow those who know what will happen to shape the future, and influence those individuals who they "shouldn't" have influence over by forcing one issue or another.
You may have had a character in Darka since 2005, but that makes little difference in predicting the full future of Atamaran politics. Having a character in the realm does little as to determining how things may flow. Certain things can be known, but unless your character individually is acting on the larger and more hidden political spectrum which isn't always visible, then you won't always have direct access to how things are shaping up to change. I believe few people would have predicted in 2005 that Falasan would be destroyed in the way that it was at the time it was by an upstart colony (with or without the help of its founding realm is not relevant in this case). Or that Norland would be destroyed by its former allies due to some dumb mistakes being made.
Specific happenings can't always be predicted, but general trends can be. Shaping those trends may be difficult but not impossible. There are those that know how to do this, and I believe that it is interesting watching them work in Atamaran politics in both the foreground and background.
It may be true that there is about a 5% chance of a Corian army sacking the Darkan capitol in any future. But, you forget that I never stated anything about it being a Corian army doing the sacking. Also, things are far from what they seem on the surface with regards to all of the politics of the current times. Things are even different than what they may seem a single layer under the surface.
Trust me when I say that there are still a few more surprises to come before this "war" is over. I can't predict who will win or how exactly it will end, but I can say that Atamara will be far different after the war than how it was when it began.
I will tell you this.Darka has already beat all the odds of surviving .I mean imagine a realm that almost never had a war on personal level while it has battled almost half realms of Atamara, if not all and still owns the same power it was born with.
Yes it is a fact that at some point a war will be unleashed towards Darka and that will be when the real conflicts have ended and this Continent reaches the balance it should have in both sides.Atamara ALWAYS worked like that.Small realms got sacked fast ,then buffer zone realms followed..then big forces such as Abby and Falasan for ex bringing the result everyone was expecting ....huge overpowered realm and unbalanced sides.
Most wars if not every single one of them was predicted for those who were members of the Continent for a long time.Seriously no surprise in any of the realm deaths that took part so far.Darka WILL face a war at a point ,mostly when it 's only allies grow weak day by day but that will happen only when major issues of the Continent are settled and certain realms received what they believe they deserve.
For example right now the problem is CE.That will take a while to settle.In the process though many alliances will suffer internally and that will burst more wars in the near future.Be sure that Darka will always be the last target because as arrogant as it may look..some people know where it's vulnerable and believe that the moment they decide to bring it down,it will be achieved.
So far Darka survived because it served well those that now hold the power.CE and Tara that is.They almost fought all their wars with the Darkan Army on their side.Once we decided to aid another side for a change under payment of course then all the threats reached our way.They were mostly "sit boy" threats.But no one attacked because their real conflicts came first and because Darka was always a good asset in any army for a good victory.
You are wrong in believing that knowing the previous politics doesn't count mostly when many realms in atamara have realm Veteran players and characters still in charge..Talerium...BoM...Carelia..Tara...and Darka ,you would be surprised...politics almost never change in Atamara because there are strong bonds behind many realms.There are people who pull strings but sometimes..it is not enough.
In poor words...in order for Darka's capital to be shacked the rest of Atamara must become a continent full of peace and love.That's what i mean.Also give yourself the benefit of the doubt because sometimes you sound very arrogant to the point it makes your opinion weak. :P
On the fun part of this conversation i will tell you this :I ve heard in Atamara several scenarios of betrayal that gave hope to people and in the end,they all proved them wrong.And when i gave that 5% of course i didn't mean Coria...i would give Coria invading Darka's capital a -5% chance and even that would be extremely generous :P
Quote from: Misericordia on April 03, 2011, 05:21:11 AM
You are wrong in believing that knowing the previous politics doesn't count mostly when many realms in atamara have realm Veteran players and characters still in charge..Talerium...BoM...Carelia..Tara...and Darka ,you would be surprised...politics almost never change in Atamara because there are strong bonds behind many realms.There are people who pull strings but sometimes..it is not enough.
You are wrong in thinking that is what I believe. I agree with you and believe that which you have stated. That is why I state that it can be predicted and manipulated.
P.S. as far as the arrogance goes, that would be my character's point of view slipping in. Not me as the player. Hard to stop but I attempt to.
Oh i know it's the char talking :D it 's the same with me when it comes to Darka,i take it too personally.
But as far as the manipulation goes,all i 'm saying is that this donkey(Atamara) is a pretty old and stubborn one to change it's ways so easily :) Predict is easy yes,manipulate requires a lot of skills.
Quote from: Misericordia on April 03, 2011, 05:33:12 AM
Oh i know it's the char talking :D it 's the same with me when it comes to Darka,i take it too personally.
But as far as the manipulation goes,all i 'm saying is that this donkey(Atamara) is a pretty old and stubborn one to change it's ways so easily :) Predict is easy yes,manipulate requires a lot of skills.
Misericordia, meet my character: "Iago"
;)
(shhhh, he's a great guy honestly....)
P.S. You think it was just luck that cause Coria to find a way to secure a nice treaty when losing a war?
Quote from: Silverfire on April 03, 2011, 05:45:55 AM
Misericordia, meet my character: "Iago"
;)
(shhhh, he's a great guy honestly....)
P.S. You think it was just luck that cause Coria to find a way to secure a nice treaty when losing a war?
We can always burn Coria a second time. And third and fourth and so on...
Is it ever luck?
Of course it wasn't.Do you think on the other hand is was pure stubbornness that Darka demanded it's piece in this treaty?I think not :P
Quote from: Skiarxon on April 03, 2011, 05:50:38 AM
We can always burn Coria a second time. And third and fourth and so on...
I swear, I've seen this exact same post before...De Ja Vu. (idk is that how you spell it?)
I'm not so sure how likely that is that will happen. Best of luck with that venture though. (at least in the short-term future)
Quote from: Misericordia on April 03, 2011, 05:51:41 AM
Is it ever luck?
Of course it wasn't.Do you think on the other hand is was pure stubbornness that Darka demanded it's piece in this treaty?I think not :P
Well actually, that is exactly what my character thought it was... :p
Heh, you are doubting if Darka has allies. I'm doubting if Coria has? Where were your allies when we sat on your capital? How much they value your efforts to help them?
Sure, there might become day when Azzal is occupied by enemies, Darka doenst have much true close friends... but as recent incidents have shown, not many does. Often relations arent as tight as they might first appear and sometimes those are much tighter than it looks at first glance. When long time ruler changes, often relations balance change a bit or a lot. This war will be long, frustrating, fun, sucky and full of betrayal, blood and tears and laugh.
When/if CE is reduced in power a lot, it leaves its allies on a bit tough position... I'm sure coalition isnt too insipired that they had to fight against those realms to achieve their goal. Coria is at better position on this than Tara & Talerium, since Coria gave up pretty fast. Tara have few allies on coalition side, but they have already shown that Carelia aint anymore counted as friendly realm.
Talerium have only Darka as friendly realm on coalitions side, but basicly its all they need... depending what will be bordering them after the war. I'm still waiting to see if Tara dares to attack Carelia, now they are too scared to do that... but incase tides changes so that CE & Co. gets upper hand, i would be very surprised if they wouldnt attack Carelia. Now only thing stopping them is that they would lose rest of the friendship seeds of Caergoth and Suville.
Quote from: jaune on April 03, 2011, 10:03:43 AM
Heh, you are doubting if Darka has allies. I'm doubting if Coria has? Where were your allies when we sat on your capital? How much they value your efforts to help them?
Sure, there might become day when Azzal is occupied by enemies, Darka doenst have much true close friends... but as recent incidents have shown, not many does. Often relations arent as tight as they might first appear and sometimes those are much tighter than it looks at first glance. When long time ruler changes, often relations balance change a bit or a lot. This war will be long, frustrating, fun, sucky and full of betrayal, blood and tears and laugh
That is exactly the point.When long time ruler relations between realms may lose their balance and lead the new rulers in hasty actions sooner or later they will understand why those who kept their throne before them for years chose a certain line of acting.
Many believe that Darka was tolerated enough but is it really tolerance? There are far more important things behind long time alliances and why those were kept that way through time and conflicts.
Quote from: jaune on April 03, 2011, 10:03:43 AM
I'm still waiting to see if Tara dares to attack Carelia, now they are too scared to do that... but incase tides changes so that CE & Co. gets upper hand, i would be very surprised if they wouldnt attack Carelia. Now only thing stopping them is that they would lose rest of the friendship seeds of Caergoth and Suville.
Heh. Killing the Duchess of Ash'rily after attacking a Carelian army despite claiming "neutrality" really pissed Caergoth off. Dunno about Suville, but last I heard, Caergoth was using the word "crusade"...(grins)
Quote from: Bedwyr on April 03, 2011, 07:39:07 PM
Heh. Killing the Duchess of Ash'rily after attacking a Carelian army despite claiming "neutrality" really pissed Caergoth off. Dunno about Suville, but last I heard, Caergoth was using the word "crusade"...(grins)
Nothing seems to be happening in Suville. Literally, zero messages.
Sleepiest corner of Atamara.
Quote from: Bedwyr on April 03, 2011, 07:39:07 PM
Heh. Killing the Duchess of Ash'rily after attacking a Carelian army despite claiming "neutrality" really pissed Caergoth off. Dunno about Suville, but last I heard, Caergoth was using the word "crusade"...(grins)
Duchess of Wor'ight! She was a legend!
War seems to have some new winds blowing again... MI & Coria is clashing some swords.
I heard rumours about infiltrator attacks caused this... oh well. More the merrier.
Oh hey, MI finally done sitting around sipping their fruity drinks? Finally the entire continent burns with the flames of war?
And now we wait for Bigmouth to strike again.
Well Heaven knows he's miserable now. :P
Quote from: Skiarxon on April 06, 2011, 09:21:30 PM
And now we wait for Bigmouth to strike again.
Does this refer to me?
Quote from: Silverfire on April 06, 2011, 10:49:11 PM
Does this refer to me?
I don't think that Morrissey plays BM anyway.
Quote from: Skiarxon on April 06, 2011, 09:21:30 PM
And now we wait for Bigmouth to strike again.
A bit uncalled for and unnecessary wouldn't you say? Let's at least pretend that we are adults.
Quote from: Munro on April 06, 2011, 11:49:58 PM
A bit uncalled for and unnecessary wouldn't you say? Let's at least pretend that we are adults.
It is uncalled disliking his char IG and wanting to see his realm burned to the ground? I do not think so...
And so after returning from a rather bloody and harsh campaign in the west and down south, fighting off Talerians, and Cagilans and Tarans, the Northern Alliance tromps home for some refitting and a hot, freshly brewed cup of tea.
As Eston and Darka begin feeling well again, they begin walking out the door. While the Barony of Makar is still getting its shoes back on. When all of a sudden one of their servants runs in a bit of distress.
"My Lords! Something most unusual!"
Eston and Darka look at each other, concerned, but curious. The Barony of Makar takes the opportunity to down another pint of ale.
"What is it?" Eston and Darka ask.
"Well, my Lords, I was cleaning up the trash and other left over items from the party in Coria's backyard as you instructed me too, when all of a sudden someone came barging into the place, grabbing leftover cake and punch and stuffing their face. Soon, he looked at me, at asked me where everybody had run off too! I am most confused and concerned, my Lords."
Suddenly, Minas Ithil barrels through the door, a glass of spiced punch in one hand and a party hat in the other.
"What the heck, you all? What're you doing over here? I showed up at the party in Coria and no one was there? Did I miss something?"
Quote from: Perth on April 07, 2011, 08:37:33 AM
Suddenly, Minas Ithil barrels through the door, a glass of spiced punch in one hand and a party hat in the other.
Ahahaha! The mental image of that actually made me laugh :P
Quote from: Skiarxon on April 07, 2011, 07:06:33 AM
It is uncalled disliking his char IG and wanting to see his realm burned to the ground? I do not think so...
I agree, but this particular part of the forum is supposed to be OOC, not IC. (I concede that it is easy to blur the lines however, as I've nearly done so myself before now).
Quote from: Perth on April 07, 2011, 08:37:33 AM
Suddenly, Minas Ithil barrels through the door, a glass of spiced punch in one hand and a party hat in the other.
"What the heck, you all? What're you doing over here? I showed up at the party in Coria and no one was there? Did I miss something?"
This pure gold. Ha!
Can someone remind me who was it that said that Atamara was dead and in a gridlock? :P
Quote from: johnny Hammarberg on April 08, 2011, 06:50:08 PM
Can someone remind me who was it that said that Atamara was dead and in a gridlock? :P
Your welcome... ;)
Been some interesting new developments lately. Thoughts?
Well, all I can say is... Darka FTW.
*cricket cricket*
Quote from: Celestine on April 28, 2011, 04:55:01 AM
Been some interesting new developments lately. Thoughts?
Which ones you mean exactly :)
Quote from: Misericordia on April 28, 2011, 04:46:42 PM
Which ones you mean exactly :)
I would like to know about the ones in the south.
So, Coria is sending troops south to 'visit family', apparently because players in Coria are getting bored with all that peace ;)
Speculation on what will happen next?
Coria will eventually get involved in a battle on CE's side.
Then I get to finish burning down Barad Falas. ;D
I do love the Darkan mentality. They've gone from wanting to hurt and attack the CE to attacking Tara, to threatening Coria, threatening Talerium and even threatening to ignore Eston's wishes (during the initial peace).
I can't wait for the future when people finally get tired of Darka doing exactly the same thing that the CE is accused (rightly so) of doing.
Quote from: Munro on May 23, 2011, 01:03:46 AM
I do love the Darkan mentality. They've gone from wanting to hurt and attack the CE to attacking Tara, to threatening Coria, threatening Talerium and even threatening to ignore Eston's wishes (during the initial peace).
I can't wait for the future when people finally get tired of Darka doing exactly the same thing that the CE is accused (rightly so) of doing.
I don't see what's so odd about this. All of the realms you named (except Eston) are allies of the Cagilan Empire and have been assisting them in one form or another during the present conflict, so attacking them is a completely natural extension of their original goal. You want to attack the Empire. Taran armies show up to stop you; so, you take the war to Tara too. You make it sound crazy or something, when it makes perfect sense. Darka is fighting a war, and with the exception of their blind spot for Talerium, they're one of the few realms doing it more or less honestly. That is a luxury they can afford by virtue of their relatively safe borders.
Quote from: Geronus on May 23, 2011, 01:37:00 AM
and with the exception of their blind spot for Talerium
Unfortunately, this being perhaps the sole factor keeping most of the war at a more or less steady stalemate so far.
Quote from: Perth on May 23, 2011, 07:43:20 AM
Unfortunately, this being perhaps the sole factor keeping most of the war at a more or less steady stalemate so far.
+1000
Might be changing that soon. Pretty tired of this labyrinth of treaties that ends up with no one being able to attack anyone else.
Quote from: Munro on May 23, 2011, 01:03:46 AM
I do love the Darkan mentality. They've gone from wanting to hurt and attack the CE to attacking Tara, to threatening Coria, threatening Talerium and even threatening to ignore Eston's wishes (during the initial peace).
I can't wait for the future when people finally get tired of Darka doing exactly the same thing that the CE is accused (rightly so) of doing.
You got it wrong. Darka has been wanting to attack the whole CE block since day 1, we just never had a good opportunity :P
Quote from: Perth on May 23, 2011, 07:43:20 AM
Unfortunately, this being perhaps the sole factor keeping most of the war at a more or less steady stalemate so far.
I would lump your treaty with Coria into the same category, so be careful about throwing stones in a glass house ;)
Of course we've had that debate once already; I'm more interested in what people think will happen if Coria gets involved in the fighting in the south.
Quote from: Geronus on May 23, 2011, 02:21:31 PMI'm more interested in what people think will happen if Coria gets involved in the fighting in the south.
They become participants in the war, and become legitimate targets for the northern armies.
Quote from: Munro on May 23, 2011, 01:03:46 AM
I do love the Darkan mentality. They've gone from wanting to hurt and attack the CE to attacking Tara, to threatening Coria, threatening Talerium and even threatening to ignore Eston's wishes (during the initial peace).
I can't wait for the future when people finally get tired of Darka doing exactly the same thing that the CE is accused (rightly so) of doing.
I do love the freaking mentality of all those realms you name with their ways towards Darka.Darka has honored Talerium and never crossed Cantril even when it was rogue.They don't allow us to do actual damage to this war they instead keep us as the crazy dogs locked on their backyard forcing us to use the pathetic mountains.Well if they want to treat Darka like such dogs they must expect some barking back.
What you miss in all this is that if it wasn't for Darka,Tara would not exist and Cagilan would never become such a fat bully.You see this is the fun with Darka,everyone loves it when it fights on their side,everyone gets upset when it's on the opposite side.
So far Darka has found only walls in this war because if it really wanted to go on the threatening with action side Cagilan would taste a bit of defeat.Coria has some serious issues with Darka and instead of crying all the time about it maybe she should stand up in front of those so called threats and make a stand instead of finding sneaking ways to return back to the war...with such silly excuses as having a squad of her people who want to visit their mansions in the South.Seriously.
Don't worry Caergoth has seen through this charade!
The question stands though, will Eston stick up for their new buddies in Coria?
Also, everyone seems to discount the Empire as a bunch of pompous fatties. I can say from painful experience that their General is doing an excellent job of burning Carelia to the ground.
Quote from: Sacha on May 23, 2011, 11:07:25 AM
Darka has been wanting to attack the whole CE block since day 1, we just never had a good opportunity :P
And by "CE block" you mean "All of the Cagilan allies EXCEPT Talerium."
Quote from: Geronus on May 23, 2011, 02:21:31 PM
I would lump your treaty with Coria into the same category, so be careful about throwing stones in a glass house ;)
Yes, because opening a second front on Eston's borders would totally swing things in the North's favor.
If Darka would fight Talerium, there would be Northern armies sacking Cagilan cities within a month.
Quote from: Perth on May 23, 2011, 07:00:21 PM
And by "CE block" you mean "All of the Cagilan allies EXCEPT Talerium."
Yes because Talerium is an ally of Darka for a long time.And as such we wish it to remain,thus we honor their wish to not use their lands.I am sure Talerium is pretty happy with that as well or else they would declare war to Darka.How come you don't accuse them for this?
Quote from: Perth on May 23, 2011, 07:00:21 PM
Yes, because opening a second front on Eston's borders would totally swing things in the North's favor.
If Darka would fight Talerium, there would be Northern armies sacking Cagilan cities within a month.
I would say the same thing about Eston fighting Coria. We were making great progress on bringing Coria to its knees; Darka and Eston had just sacked their capital, and we were successfully whipsawing them between Barad Falas and the Barad Gardor. I would argue that we'd already be sacking Cagilan cities as of right now if Eston had never signed that treaty in the first place. You were doing fine when it was an open front, so I can't see what you have to fear about opening it up again. Let's face it, the North was far more effective in the war when Coria was in play. Since then all we've done is loot ineffectively and annoy Talerium. That and lose battles to Tara.
That's my perspective of course, and it's clear you feel differently, but given that you and I can disagree so starkly about Coria, doesn't it make sense that you and Jaune could disagree about Talerium to an equal extent?
That's the biggest obstacle facing the anti-CE coalition; diverging viewpoints. We don't all agree on the best way to fight the war, and most realms are still putting their own interests ahead of the greater good.
Quote from: Misericordia on May 23, 2011, 07:15:43 PM
Yes because Talerium is an ally of Darka for a long time.And as such we wish it to remain,thus we honor their wish to not use their lands.I am sure Talerium is pretty happy with that as well or else they would declare war to Darka.How come you don't accuse them for this?
I understand this. You wish to remain allies with them, lol that is what I was complaining about--Darka's desire to remain allies with the second most important Cagilan puppet. And why do I not point fingers at Talerium? Because that would be silly. Why would Talerium have any incentive to attack Darka? They would quickly fall to Darka and her allies if they did that. Their goals are currently being met by the current situation--which is to protect the Cagilan Empire and themselves. I point fingers at Darka because they claim to want to bring down the CE block and arguably the biggest thing stopping us from doing that is their refusal to attack Talerium.
Quote from: Geronus on May 23, 2011, 08:35:44 PM
I would say the same thing about Eston fighting Coria. We were making great progress on bringing Coria to its knees; Darka and Eston had just sacked their capital, and we were successfully whipsawing them between Barad Falas and the Barad Gardor. I would argue that we'd already be sacking Cagilan cities as of right now if Eston had never signed that treaty in the first place.
How would we be sacking Cagilan cities if we had destroyed Coria? Have you seen a map of Atamara?
Let's accept your hypothetical here and we continued the war against Coria and Coria is no longer a factor in the fight. This means the allies get to do one of two things 1) march over the mountains or 2) march around the mountains through Tara.
Both options pale in comparison to simply walking through Cantril. I don't see how you truly compare the two countries.
Quote from: Perth on May 23, 2011, 10:46:11 PM
How would we be sacking Cagilan cities if we had destroyed Coria? Have you seen a map of Atamara?
The irony of fate ... that was their plan for Eston ;)
*sigh*
Came so close to capturing the King of Tara just now.
that might have changed things a little. 8)
Quote from: Regulus on May 24, 2011, 01:45:54 AM
The irony of fate ... that was their plan for Eston ;)
And you'd know this how? We sent an offer of peace before the Northern and Southern realms became involved in the conflict. That's how you all know we asked for Nazamroth because that's what we had asked for in the terms of peace with Eston! To find out later that other people had spread lies about us wishing to take the Duchy of Barad Lacirith were utter fabrications.
So sending a peace offer, whilst we were winning, with the loss of a single region for a multi-region realm like Eston is destroying their realm how?
Quote from: Munro on May 24, 2011, 10:51:01 AM
And you'd know this how? We sent an offer of peace before the Northern and Southern realms became involved in the conflict. That's how you all know we asked for Nazamroth because that's what we had asked for in the terms of peace with Eston! To find out later that other people had spread lies about us wishing to take the Duchy of Barad Lacirith were utter fabrications.
So sending a peace offer, whilst we were winning, with the loss of a single region for a multi-region realm like Eston is destroying their realm how?
Are you saying that Coria requested Nazamroth to Eston before the start of the hotilities, only Nazamroth?
Quote from: Regulus on May 25, 2011, 03:56:05 AM
Are you saying that Coria requested Nazamroth to Eston before the start of the hotilities, only Nazamroth?
Before the start? No. Not to my knowledge anyway. The only thing we demanded before the start of hostilities was that their Judge Athena step down from her position for allowing an assassin who had tried to kill Saeculo, free the continent, despite several requests from Saeculo himself to have the man punished or at least not accepted as an Estonian noble. It was during the peace negotiations that we demanded the region. But yes, that was the only region we ever demanded in reparations. This was to prevent them from trying to starve us again after they had threatened to due to the actions of a Talerium Infiltrator which had nothing to do with Coria (save the two nations being allied).
We potentially asked for future Military access to Darka but I don't recall whether that was actually asked for or not, I know the idea was toyed with (by me at least) during the reparation stages.
To be honest you are over estimating how much land Coria can even support. The reason Hammarsett was founded in the first place was because we could not support a new Duchy. We had first dibs on that land but opted to aid a new colony instead. Ironically, I very much doubt our two realms will ever grow in harmony ;) But that's beside the point. Having had the option of taking Shanandoah just a month or so earlier, why would we ever demand Barad Lacirith from Eston!? It makes no sense.
Just like it doesn't make sense for you to leave your capital underdefended and sending the Duke away? ;D
Quote from: Munro on May 25, 2011, 07:38:55 AM...why would we ever demand Barad Lacirith from Eston!? It makes no sense.
Whether Coria itself demanded it or not, it was demanded by CE on behalf of Coria. This is fact, and many people have seen the message that made the demand. Whether you are responsible for that or not makes no difference. The IC impression is that Coria demanded a duchy from Eston. This is reinforced by the fact that soon after the demand was made, Coria went to war with Eston. It's quite possible that Coria was a victim of circumstance. But there you have it.
I'm glad everyone is so focused on Coria as Carelia gets ground into dust.
Talk about a realm paralyzed by too liberal a monarchy.
It's not liberal monarchy as much as it is a horribly inefficient army that's doing them in.
Quote from: Sacha on May 25, 2011, 04:31:22 PM
It's not liberal monarchy as much as it is a horribly inefficient army that's doing them in.
The efficiency of the army is a symptom of a lack of clear decision making and leadership, the root cause. The inability to motivate allies is another symptom of this same root cause.
Well, if your main allies are Caergoth and Suville, you're already half-way to your demise...
Zing.
Quote from: Munro on May 25, 2011, 07:38:55 AM
To be honest you are over estimating how much land Coria can even support. The reason Hammarsett was founded in the first place was because we could not support a new Duchy. We had first dibs on that land but opted to aid a new colony instead. Ironically, I very much doubt our two realms will ever grow in harmony ;) But that's beside the point. Having had the option of taking Shanandoah just a month or so earlier, why would we ever demand Barad Lacirith from Eston!? It makes no sense.
I really doubt that Hammarsett was founded because Coria would be unable to support a new duchy... From the point of view of Regulus, Hammarsett would be founded even without the support of Coria.
Do you know the history of the realm based on the current lands of Coria, called Falasan?
Quote from: Regulus on June 03, 2011, 02:33:50 AM
I really doubt that Hammarsett was founded because Coria would be unable to support a new duchy... From the point of view of Regulus, Hammarsett would be founded even without the support of Coria.
Do you know the history of the realm based on the current lands of Coria, called Falasan?
With all due respect, I'm not telling you it in the views of Regulus or even Saeculo though am I? I'm telling it as a player who was involved in those very discussions.
I'll admit that the discussions were some time ago, but from what I remember in the Corian Senate; we had the opportunity to request the Duchy, spoke about it in the Senate, decided we did not have the ability to sustain it on our own and then supported the suggestion in the League of the Eagle that it should be made into a colony. This is what I believed happened, regardless of what Regulus 'thinks'. :P
There really is nothing to debate. We said we didn't want the Duchy for maintenance reasons. Why would we then demand another Duchy just a month or so later when the situation had not changed at all? How is Falasan relevant to this point whatsoever?
If its any consolation, I know all about the history of Falasan and don't see the connection either. Then again, I know little enough about Hammarsett. Presumably the connection is the origin of the colonists - primarily from the very south east rather than the realms that did most of the fighting. I know CE originally supported Coria having a claim on the territories given their involvement in the fighting, but Munro would be correct in recalling that sustainability would have been a problem. Not so much distance from capital or the likes, I believe the reason was actually lack of nobles at that time. It was all or nothing, as the Duchy needed its regions whether with Coria or to survive as a new realm. The theory was, obviously, yet another buffer, an ally closer to home to hit the likes of the Barony should the north fight the south yet again and to lock in MI as a consequence of losing the war. Obviously, given that CE and their closer allies didn't take as much interest in the new colony as they did in Coria's leadership, that seems to have flopped somewhat.
As for Carelia, leadership is an issue. Carelia's well aware of that and kudos to the military heads there on a constant effort to improve. Outsiders don't see it because the results haven't shown themselves, but I am aware of the efforts they're putting in to find an extensively considered military framework. Despite this, the failure of results of these admirable efforts falls to the leaders of Carelia (primarily, but not limited to military) for the reasons listed. I tend to agree with both criticisms. Carelia lacks the organization that tends to motivate players. I've always said CE is the best realm, and that's OOC and seperate to any loyalties my characters may have. The reason for this is threefold.
- First, there is a clear path of advancement. Nobles are quickly drawn into Knighthood. When a region finds itself without a lord, an election is held where any noble can step forward and campaign the sitting Lords and Ladies for their support. Often, this is realm-wide, but the more savvy tend to go with the personal touch (and target Dukes who have more votes). Lords and Ladies make most of the non-tatical decisions in the Senate. All fairly clear and simple - properly done.
- Second, leadership. There's a clear way of getting there, but its also decisive. Any time there isn't general agreement, a vote can be held which will answer the question fairly promptly. While the Senate can discuss for weeks or more the diplomatic stance of the Empire, its the seperate military leadership that puts it into effect. There, they have the authority, the chain of command and a definitive voice. Orders are rarely countermanded and morale is typically high as most armies come with a fairly proud history, along with a degree of rivalry as to which is better.
- Finally, propaganda. Its not the purpose of this post - I no longer have any characters in CE - but everyone knows CE is the best. They're the biggest, have the strongest army and have reliable allies at their back. When was the last war they actually lost? These are things that I am well aware were held against CE - their success - for long before this contentital war of all wars began. CE is not liked, but few can claim to look down on them in any of the realms. That makes fighting them somewhat problematic, especially if they happen to wipe your armies out now and then. On the flip side, these same things are told to every or almost every noble in CE. That leads to a fair amount of confidence and the feeling of being on the winning side, which will motivate players far more than knowing that you've a long hard fight ahead with no sure result in your favour. Motivation, both within CE and the effects of its reputation on the motivation of their enemies.
Carelia has problems on each of those front. Advancement is hodge-podge. The person with the best claim is good - falls perfectly within the hopes of Tom - but wouldn't it be better if the appointments went to the courtiers and what-have-you, so that nobles are not drawn away from the battlefield? Makes sense. Problem as I see it is that the bulk of your nobles, especially those seeking to work their way up the ladder, will end up in the offensive armies. That is where the bulk of the nobles will go, especially during war. Those same nobles fight to take regions back or acquire new regions, but because of two mind-sets; the appointment of previous lords automatically and the appointment of rearguard nobles over vanguard nobles, its often the case that either a fairly inept lord is reappointed due to his claim (when the opportunity really should be used to find someone who'll take a greater role or not make people wince when they read their messages) or someone who's done little to none of the losing troops and getting hurt again and again finds their way into a position of some power and affluence. This hurts morale as much as anything else, and damages a player's will to persist. Were I in CE, I'd be confident of getting a Lordship a lot sooner than I would were I in Carelia despite the noble:region ratio, as they're far more likely to elect someone who's involved far and wide rather than someone who happens to have been the lord of the region a couple of years ago or lost the region due to bad management.
The military situation is similar. Too many cooks. Carelia has fairly impressive retention of its military leadership. The problem is, a lot of the former leaders forget the fact that they technically don't have the authority, they are no longer Marshals or Generals and are, in fact, widely unknown among the greater populace of nobles. These same gents still send orders, occassionally contrary to orders coming from the Marshal or Vice-Marshal, but that's not so bad as they've about as much an idea of what the plan is as the officers. The blame in Carelia's case, therefore lies in Leta and Nathan's hands in my mind. Carelia needs a firm direction as to what they hope to achieve in this war. That lies at the monarch's feet as does giving clear direction as to a simple chain of command and a simple path of advancement, or expectations, for the ordinary Knight. Nathan needs to be far more decisive too. He's a good General, knows his stuff, but my experience of his military leadership tells me that he needs to be willing to make the call, even the wrong one. Good odds he'll make the right call as often, or more often, than the wrong one, but that is far far better than not making any call at all until it is too late and Carelia's armies are working at whatever their Marshal thinks best. That's a lack of unity in action for the armies and with the general lack of organization (the Shields, for instance, seem to lack a clear division in responsabilities and, from what I've observed, wander where the individual thinks they are most needed. This can have three or four courtiers making the trip to the same region, with half the number turning around to head for another destination when it becomes clear others have got it covered. That's a few days of one or more courtiers not doing their work when they're sorely needed.
But yeah, I don't mean to draw a roadmap for Carelia or anything. I certainly don't mean what I've said as an insult or a lack of belief in their potential. They once had a strong reputation, deservedly, but they no longer stand as tall as they could. Changes are needed. If any here disagree, look at the progress of the war over these past few months. Little enough, but with the exception of Skalk and the occassional visit to Alatol, it seems the fighting is done on Carelian land. Not a good way to win a war. Carelia, in my mind at least, is ripe for expansion and success. They are the only realm that can actually start eating up CE should the war go their way. Colonies are not out of the question, but Carelia can directly benefit, rather than indirectly, should improvements be made and their leaders become more decisive.
Simple and to the point. Not my post I'm talking about. Instead, I refer to what Carelia lacks and really needs to get back. A clear internal system and no distractions or lack of sureness in their path, whatever that may be.
I claimed CE was the best. Others will surely disagree, and yet I'm being objective, or as objective as I can be. That does not make them infallible. That does not mean I believe they can hold out forever if things don't change. It does mean that Carelia, in my humble opinion, could do with learning a thing or two from them. Not to emulate, but to make their own and to get their house in order so they can fight and win, rather than fight and lose over and over again.
Disclaimer: I'm biased. Probably out of touch with certain elements involved. And avidly interested. Gotta be the best topic on the forum :)
Finton.
P.S. On the original subject of this post, which I unsurprisingly drifted quickly and extremely far away from, Coria's support wasn't ever needed for the founding of the colony. Would the colony exist without CE, Tara and Talerium though? I have my doubts. Hammersett wasn't founded because Coria couldn't manage another Duchy at that point in time, but it could easily have not been founded had Coria been able to manage another Duchy. The discussion of a colony, and Hammersett's fresh existence, would likely have gone no further than a brief consideration had Coria stated a willingness to take the Duchy. They weren't willing to, so a colony effort was put together. Coria, if I remember it right, had no real involvement after declining, and Hammersett came into existance with the determination of those nobles looking to forge their own, new path on Atamara. Would Coria have demanded a Duchy from Eston? Despite what Darka did to Eston, or perhaps because of it, I suspect Coria would never have done such a thing because surrendering Eston's capital after not contesting Darka's own expansion would have been very bad for Eston and, obviously, they probably wouldn't have agreed, no matter who was winning the war.
Some thoughts.
Wow, that's an epic post Carna.(sidenote: Where have you been?) I would definitely have to agree that CE is by far one of the most efficient realms on the continent. Whether its the best realm or not I think has more to do though with how happy the players are that have characters in the realm. That should be the only determinate in my opinion.
At any rate, I think it is hard to argue with the fact that CE, Tara, Talerium, and Coria have the single most organized and efficient allied military system on Atamara, and likely in the entire game (although I can't be sure how Dwilight's SA would compare, or other such examples.
On another note just to clear up some facts on some issues which I know for sure due to my personal character's leadership and involvement in I want to point out the following:
1. Coria did not in fact demand a duchy from Eston, (only Nazamroth was asked from them in peace discussions and only after the war had begun. Before the war began, no regions were asked in order to prevent war)
2. CE did in fact demand on behalf of Coria (without Corian knowledge or permission) for the duchy of Barad Lacirith from Eston in order to forstall war (and as a demand for peace after war began.) Upon discovering this Coria's leadership informed CE to stop such arguments, and informed Eston's leadership of its falsehood.
3. Coria's decisions did not have a direct effect in the way of the founding of Hammarsett. Hammarsett was planned to be founded by Suville and Caergoth at the end of the MI war, and this is what occurred with Coria's help to allow them to secede the duchy from Coria's control. Now, Coria did express that we did not feel that we could support a third duchy, and it is likely that if we had, then CE and Tara's support for such an occurrence could maybe have overridden Suville and Caergoth's wishes. We can't be sure of how this would have gone, but Coria was prompted that we could lay a claim to the duchy if we wanted to.
4.
Quote from: Munro on May 25, 2011, 07:38:55 AM
We potentially asked for future Military access to Darka but I don't recall whether that was actually asked for or not, I know the idea was toyed with (by me at least) during the reparation stages.
I know for a fact that this information never left Coria's Senate chambers in an IC sense and wasn't presented as an official claim. Unless a character specficially informed your character of this information this is OOC only info.
^The above 4 statements are facts in so far as is possible to state facts in this game from personal experiences with the situations. Perceptions may have been different but that is how things went down insofar as I know as the Ruler of Coria at the time.^
Cagilan and Tara have an indeed excellent military structure,strategy and readiness.
Coria?Is a joke.Coria is the realm that make plans behinds back based on the fact they are a buffer zone that can block ways and manipulate plans of both sides.Trust me,they will have their downfall and only then they will realize that they were in reality nothing but a thorn on zome backs.But thorns can be removed easily.
You have absolutely no power and the power of hypocrisy won't take you far.Militaristic talking you are a big nothing alone.And i would like to see when this wars rings your doorbell again who will run to save you.And when you realize it will be no one i would like to see how your superiority in military will save you.
This is also a fact and i am sure it will create more and more discussions in here the future days and i would like to see then what you will have to say :)
xoxo
Coria is a pretty cool military guy, they got their capital sacked for a week and doesnt afraid of anything.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 25, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
Cagilan and Tara have an indeed excellent military structure,strategy and readiness.
Coria?Is a joke.Coria is the realm that make plans behinds back based on the fact they are a buffer zone that can block ways and manipulate plans of both sides.Trust me,they will have their downfall and only then they will realize that they were in reality nothing but a thorn on zome backs.But thorns can be removed easily.
You have absolutely no power and the power of hypocrisy won't take you far.Militaristic talking you are a big nothing alone.And i would like to see when this wars rings your doorbell again who will run to save you.And when you realize it will be no one i would like to see how your superiority in military will save you.
This is also a fact and i am sure it will create more and more discussions in here the future days and i would like to see then what you will have to say :)
xoxo
Lol. That's a lot of hatred to be carrying around (",)
I've never played a character in Coria, but I have played on both sides of the divide. Frankly, I'm shocked Coria has the ability to provoke such heated feelings for you or, well, anyone else. They're not a major power by any description. They import food, their army would and has been crushed by one side and could, in a matter of days (travel time over those mountains is not nice obviously), be crushed by the Cagilans too. They don't have an extensive history, being the second newest realm on Atamara, What it does have is what Falasan had, its location. It has a couple of other things too, so while not a power, I'd hardly consider it a joke either. For one, its a functioning republic that works to great effect to allow nobles who put in effort to climb the ranks. We all want that. Were they a monarchy or somesuch, I'd expect that they would indeed be a joke. But its that they're a republic - and doing it well - that they're saved, in my humble opinion. Smarts carries a lot of weight and that's how they've survived despite or in spite of the location. That they make use of it, as a buffer as they were originally intended to, for their own benefit is what they have to work with. That they do work with it isn't to be mocked, simply deserving of some credit.
Let me ask you, Cordia, something that was already asked in this topic recently: "Do you know the history of the realm based on the current lands of Coria, called Falasan?" Their own military was probably not as good as Coria's, but they survived too by doing the exact same thing. Buffering the north and the south. They simply happened to be on the other side of that line.
Finton.
I have a character in Atamara for 6 years so yes i know the history of whole Atamara pretty well :)
The only reason i hate Coria is because they may be insignificant in power but their position is such that in this war with their arrogant behaviour and absurd political moves they are causing a huge problem.Also what i cannot stand is arrogance by someone that should try to get no attention in such a continent wide war.So why are they so arrogant?
Because from one side as i see it they try to approach Eston and make them believe they want an alliance with them in the future or maybe even actually want it while on the other hand they will pretend friendship to Tara that just burned Eston to looting by both siding them on their defense and of course report them all the movements wherever they go.
I would describe them as a two face buffer zone with tons of arrogance. :)
Also i burst out like this when in the previous post Silverfire included Coria into the "single most organized and efficient allied military system on Atamara" when they begged for a way out of this war when they took beating in it.
Size doesn't matter because size can change and since you seem to be an old Atamaran i will remind you that Tara used to be down to 5 regions as well but now is almost as significant power as the Empire herself.Things can change if you have the right friends but you must choose a side and not be a backstabber of such caliber :P
Talerium is also using the buffer zone role in this war with the difference they actually have an importance as size but at least they do it with dignity and with cards open,while Coria is trying to play the smart ass bully that jumps behind the back of his huge brother and cries threats.
OOC and IC yes they piss me off.IC for multiple reasons OOC because i can't hear a statement such as the one i quoted and see it being called a fact.
that's all :D of course i bare no hatred for players and i m totally talking on a game related relation.
Quote from: Carna on June 25, 2011, 10:36:02 PM
Let me ask you, Cordia, something that was already asked in this topic recently: "Do you know the history of the realm based on the current lands of Coria, called Falasan?" Their own military was probably not as good as Coria's, but they survived too by doing the exact same thing. Buffering the north and the south. They simply happened to be on the other side of that line.
Finton.
Seriously?Were you playing when Falasan was smashed?
Coria got her butt beat up within two weeks and Falasan was one hard piece of defense for her enemies to fall.They fought extraordinary battles and WON them that other realms with even greater manpower would lose.Many if not all in Atamara then were amazed by their performance in their downfall war.The fell with dignity militarist talking.And Falasan had dignity and did not deserve what she got if you ask me.I regret as Atamaran the day they fell because it was their fall that caused all the unbalance in Atamara.
Their difference with Coria is that Falasan hold balance as a buffer zone while Coria is trying to do the opposite with words behind backs and questionable tactics of politics. They could really stay neutral in this war..but they don't.IF they did i would be the first to congratulate them.That's what buffers should do..hold the balance no matter what,not incline on one side.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 25, 2011, 06:55:39 PM
Cagilan and Tara have an indeed excellent military structure,strategy and readiness.
Coria?Is a joke.Coria is the realm that make plans behinds back based on the fact they are a buffer zone that can block ways and manipulate plans of both sides.Trust me,they will have their downfall and only then they will realize that they were in reality nothing but a thorn on zome backs.But thorns can be removed easily.
You have absolutely no power and the power of hypocrisy won't take you far.Militaristic talking you are a big nothing alone.And i would like to see when this wars rings your doorbell again who will run to save you.And when you realize it will be no one i would like to see how your superiority in military will save you.
This is also a fact and i am sure it will create more and more discussions in here the future days and i would like to see then what you will have to say :)
xoxo
Did I say anything at all about Coria's military strength or prowess? No. I stated simply we were part of the "most
organized and
efficient allied military
system" That has nothing to do with how strong our military is. However the military leaders and cooperation that is involved in the alliance that we are a part of ( and contribute to) is unparralleled.
Even if that is what you mean which i doubt from what i 've heard in the past as well ...you prove my point.You choose a side.When you choose a side and you admit to be part of it you seize to be a buffer zone.You simply are a pain in the butt for one side XD
You have a side and you pretend to not have one.It is arrogantly disturbing.
And i quote : At any rate, I think it is hard to argue with the fact that CE, Tara, Talerium, and Coria have the single most organized and efficient allied military system on Atamara, and likely in the entire game
Maybe being a part is what you wanted to say but Have is what you said.IT was rather misleading.Except if down inside you actually believe it :P
Over half the things stated against Coria is either complete hearsay, not stated by a Corian and in fact one of our allies on behalf of us, or fabricated by the northern alliance rulers to garner support against Coria.
Coria has the absolute worst strategic military position on the island, as we are stuck dead in the middle of it without any side to which we can feel safe without diplomacy. We are one of only two realms that are landlocked and being the 2nd newest realm on the continent doesn't help things either in that respect. If Coria had its choice it would have fought a 1v1 war against Eston, or a 2v1 war against Eston with Talerium as our ally. (Even this 2v1 fight would be fair due to the corresponding sizes and militaries of the two realms). Coria was denied its choice because CE, and BoM are both the most arrogant and proud realms on the continent and do whatever they want.
Yes Coria sought to get out of the war. We had no choice. We didn't want to fight a full blown continent war, and the only reason most of the north was fighting us was either because of something CE said on our behalf or because they only wanted to kill us to get to CE.
The fact of the matter is that there is very little a small realm like Coria (or Falasan for that matter) can do against 3 realms allied and much larger than them, working to destroy you. Shoot, you say Coria should just stay out of doing stuff, well until you play a character in Coria and know what it is like for your entire realm to dissappear of nobles (1. because the game is dying, and 2. because no one wants to play in a realm in perpetual peace when the rest of the continent is at war, 3. because Darka and Hammarsett are the ones breaking treaties and then blaming it on Coria) you should not speak about Coria needing to stay quiet. Watch your realm dwindle to nothing due to loss of nobles and no new nobles joining because the playerbase is leaving and then tell me we're a bad realm.
Please stop being so biased and unable to see from another person's point of view that you demean a realm that has had little choice in many of its options. Coria can support over twice its current noble count and still not need to take any more regions. Give us that, and I can guarantee you that Coria can one on one fight against Eston and win. Our military leaders are some of the best on the continent, but have very little to work with.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 12:47:56 AM
Even if that is what you mean which i doubt from what i 've heard in the past as well ...you prove my point.You choose a side.When you choose a side and you admit to be part of it you seize to be a buffer zone.You simply are a pain in the butt for one side XD
You have a side and you pretend to not have one.It is arrogantly disturbing.
When has Coria not claimed to have a side? We have
public alliances with CE, Tara, and Talerium. Us being in their military discussions and part of their system makes perfect sense. We may be out of the war militarily and cannot offer our support against the northern forces, but that doesn't mean we no longer send any letters ever.
And, you've stated quite clearly my point. I don't care what you've "heard", most likely it wasn't true. Unless seen as a direct letter from a Corian noble or copied from a Corian noble, you can't know its true. There is so much propaganda in this game it is crazy.
If you want to give some interest in your realm on that matter then choose a side and if that side means dying with it then do it as well.Carelia did it for example.
Saving your realm and altogether trying to be honorable and right is impossible in this game.I never saw it happen on any Continent.
At this point the whole Continent is at war in one way or another.Even the treaty you say Darka broke (which apparently she did and i am honest about it but be sure she had no idea she was doing it because the treaty is SO messed up) well the treaty to begin with was denied to it's parts and was accepted only when death threats were put on the table.This is not how you get a realm stable in neutrality.
Falasan was always a gold producing realm.Other realms were fighting and bickering while Falasan was giving birth to gold.I will admit that when that was happening the game mechanics were rather different.Meaning too much peace was not a crime then while now it's something that can become your downfall just for staying idle.This is Battlemaster not Farmiville.It is essential that when you choose a side either you stick to it or stay out of it.
Coria is playing hard to get in any kind of approach and you tell me that the moves against your true alliance were not reported ages before they arrived on their doorstep.By that i mean that even when Darka did use the mountains to attack CE i would put my hand on fire that reports were send to CE before they eve touched their lands.
I understand you want to bring fan to both the players and at the same time save the realm but sometimes they can't be matched without causing havoc in general.So far you are indeed in a very bad position ,buffers are always bad in my eyes to be honest but at the same time is a very important position which when played well it can win a lot more than you think.
If you mean Carelia (modern BM) then I fail to see the connection because it is too large to be destroyed by this war. There aren't enough nobles in CE or Tara to take over all of Carelia and destroy even if founding colonies is considered.
Yes, I don't want my realm to be destroyed and so we sued for peace because frankly our realm wasn't even stabilized yet. We had starvation everywhere and no one was letting us import food. That is a very difficult situation to be in. Coria is still a very strong gold producing realm, we have tons of it, but all of our regions are getting destroyed from Too Much Peace(or maybe that's just the starvation, i don't know), as well as our units.
We're discussing ways to avoid us just falling into disrepair and leaving a giant rogue gap between the realms, but frankly it isn't hard.
You're probably right about the scouting of Darkan armies. However, that wasn't excluded in our treaty signings for us to inform our allies of enemy troop movements in and around our lands. I wrote the treaty, so I know what it included. (literally its saved on my laptop).
and thank you for sending a message that at least convinced me that you aren't completely biased and can see things as they are. I understand disagreeing with things I say, but the tone of the msg changed significantly.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 01:17:35 AM
Coria is still a very strong gold producing realm, we have tons of it, but all of our regions are getting destroyed from Too Much Peace(or maybe that's just the starvation, i don't know), as well as our units.
This is indeed what makes you different from Falasan in fact as i stated in my previous message.This game mechanic did change everything.That counts for many realms at this point i bet.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 01:30:53 AM
This is indeed what makes you different from Falasan in fact as i stated in my previous message.This game mechanic did change everything.That counts for many realms at this point i bet.
Exactly, try staying neutral with that happening... it is a pain...
If you think peace was offered because Saeculo or Coria was "threatened" by any other realm, then you are sorely mistaken. Saeculo is quite stubborn, and I purposefully do not have him acknowledge threats. I'm sure Kerwin will agree that he has found this to be the case and that requests have been much more successful and this is exactly because Eston has
not threatened Coria.
The accusation of backstabbing is ridiculous, especially from someone who hasn't even been involved in the Ruler channel. Saeculo has been perfectly clear where Coria stands. On numerous occasions.
I will agree that our Military is nowhere near the ability of CE and Tara. Or even of Darka or Eston or perhaps even Carelia. I personally don't believe a few months ago under my own leadership that we could have won most 1v1 wars and I'll openly admit that. However we do have some very experienced Military figures now involved in the Corian military and several mistakes made previously have now been learned. After all it was due to politics that our Capital was sacked in the first place. ;)
QuoteThey could really stay neutral in this war..but they don't.
I agree with the first part of your statement. We could really stay neutral (albeit with difficulty given the too much peace mechanic) but this would be down to whether the Northern nations were insistent on continuing to break the agreements made.
Both Hammarsett and Darka have attacked Coria since peace was agreed (on all occasions, no Corian was to blame) and in the most recent fighting, this was caused by Darka and BoM breaking the original agreement, if we did not act and defend Tara against such actions, then they could also claim we were not being neutral for allowing you into regions that you have never been given access to ;)
We also did not state that we would not defend our allies militarily, but in order to maintain neutrality we decided it would be best not to. Yet we're accused of not being neutral, go figure! To be honest, the Northern realms are no better than the CE, as Darka and BoM are just as arrogant if not more.
But I'm glad your character has a better grasp of the politics and actions of Coria than its current ruler!
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 01:30:53 AM
This is indeed what makes you different from Falasan in fact as i stated in my previous message.This game mechanic did change everything.That counts for many realms at this point i bet.
Indeed. TMP entered the game when Falasan was already without Barad Falas and, gosh, did that hit us hard. Each time CE and Tara withdrew to refit (and it happened far away), Falasan was without battles for over a week, and the TMP started to kick in (also, I think it still had some tweaking to do at the time, since it sometimes returned a couple of days after a minor battle). Unnerving.
But I also know this wasn't what doomed us: it was practically impossible for Falasan to be a neutral realm in that location, specially after the Ash Sea Islands were gone. And it was due mostly to the realm's long history and the fact that it was ripe for the taking, after losing Tucha and Barad Falas. The realm would have to live hanging on a whim of her enemies, and that was no good. The enemies were also whimsical and decided to end things once and for all.
I must say it was fun while it lasted (in a sort of desperate way). And, oh, the battles. Too bad so many of those good players left the game.
Nonetheless, holding position in between the lake and the mountains is pretty hard if you don't have an ally that will help you hold your frontlines and protect your back. Also, I don't think I ever saw true neutrality in BM. Anyone?
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 12:55:46 AM
Coria can support over twice its current noble count and still not need to take any more regions. Give us that, and I can guarantee you that Coria can one on one fight against Eston and win.
Well, sure. But Eston could also support twice the noble count it currently has. We're floating around 40-45 nobles as is. When I first joined Eston, we were smaller than we are today and had a noble count around 80-85. Sad times we live in. Eston feels like a skeleton of its former self. We can't even appoint new Lords without adding to the list of Knightless regions.
Quote from: Munro on June 26, 2011, 03:34:28 AM
To be honest, the Northern realms are no better than the CE, as Darka and BoM are just as arrogant if not more.
Surely, Eston hasn't shown itself arrogant? I think, if I do say so myself, Eston has been nothing but honest with Coria.
And I think safe positions breed the most arrogance. The truly arrogant realms on Atamara at the moment are all the ones who are involved in the war but are seeing none of it on their own soil: Tara, Darka, BoM.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 12:25:25 AM
Talerium is also using the buffer zone role in this war with the difference they actually have an importance as size but at least they do it with dignity and with cards open,
I think my mouth hung open for a few minutes after reading this. The idea of Talerium being open, having dignity, or any other trait other than being cowardly, selfish, lying snakes in the grass is a concept completely beyond me. Though maybe that's just idea we have in Eston :P
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 12:41:32 AM
I stated simply we were part of the "most organized and efficient allied military system" That has nothing to do with how strong our military is. However the military leaders and cooperation that is involved in the alliance that we are a part of ( and contribute to) is unparralleled.
Probably pretty true. Then again, it's easy to look that way when up against perhaps the most
unorganized and
inefficient allied military system perhaps in the game.
I kind of like to think of the current war as the barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire, only much less successful. Roves of random bands of northern troops roam around independently and refusing to cooperate with one another, while periodic large armies from the south show up, kill a smaller northern army, and then loot Eston.
However, the way the Empire Alliance has been able to completely keep the northern realms stuck in the north through basically manipulating diplomatic situations is something impressive for sure. Like, really, why the HELL has the northern alliance not been able to sack Eaglin by now? Oh yeah, Darka is buddy buddy with Talerium who routinely marches into Eston and loots like crazy and Darka seems to not care/notice; and Eston is friendly with Coria who for some reason infuriates the living daylights out of Kostaja and Sordnaz to no end lol.
One last thing: I love how the massive, continent wide war that was meant to end the grid lock and boring dullness of Atamara has basically turned into one huge, boring stalemate. ::)
First of all can I say that this entire post gave me a good laugh? Quite humorous indeed.
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Well, sure. But Eston could also support twice the noble count it currently has. We're floating around 40-45 nobles as is. When I first joined Eston, we were smaller than we are today and had a noble count around 80-85. Sad times we live in. Eston feels like a skeleton of its former self. We can't even appoint new Lords without adding to the list of Knightless regions.
Fair enough because Coria is at 20 nobles, and when it was founded had 35 nobles and half its current landmass.
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Surely, Eston hasn't shown itself arrogant? I think, if I do say so myself, Eston has been nothing but honest with Coria.
And I think safe positions breed the most arrogance. The truly arrogant realms on Atamara at the moment are all the ones who are involved in the war but are seeing none of it on their own soil: Tara, Darka, BoM.
True enough, Eston has been honest with Coria. (except for being able to control their allies from breaking treaties) And True as well, but I haven't been able to see Tara's firsthand due to being on the wrong side.
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
I think my mouth hung open for a few minutes after reading this. The idea of Talerium being open, having dignity, or any other trait other than being cowardly, selfish, lying snakes in the grass is a concept completely beyond me. Though maybe that's just idea we have in Eston :P
To be fair, this is likely just due to being from Eston. I'm sure Talerium would say the same thing about you. :)
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
Probably pretty true. Then again, it's easy to look that way when up against perhaps the most unorganized and inefficient allied military system perhaps in the game.
I kind of like to think of the current war as the barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire, only much less successful. Roves of random bands of northern troops roam around independently and refusing to cooperate with one another, while periodic large armies from the south show up, kill a smaller northern army, and then loot Eston.
However, the way the Empire Alliance has been able to completely keep the northern realms stuck in the north through basically manipulating diplomatic situations is something impressive for sure. Like, really, why the HELL has the northern alliance not been able to sack Eaglin by now? Oh yeah, Darka is buddy buddy with Talerium who routinely marches into Eston and loots like crazy and Darka seems to not care/notice; and Eston is friendly with Coria who for some reason infuriates the living daylights out of Kostaja and Sordnaz to no end lol.
Its interesting because CE would probably like to think of itself AS the Roman Empire itself. Not to mention its being invaded by Vikings. hehe. (well attempted at least) Its also likely a true fact that we may be given too much credit because our opponents are highly unorganized. I mean if the opponents of the CE bloc were highly organized it would be a guaranteed victory. I mean line up every realm for and against them, and their military forces end up be double what CE's allied bloc can field. (or more). Not to mention that the entire island is a pincer attack which is supposed to be good for military strategy.
Also, its not Coria's fault that Sordnaz is one of the most stubborn, prideful, and easily irritated rulers I've ever seen. That's not an insult, I mean its to be expected when you're dictator for over 6 real life years in this game. As far as Kostaja goes, I mean we've got a mercenary who is pretending to not be a mercenary for the duration of this war which I expect will last at least another real life year or more, so Kostaja is bound to get upset easily at things because he doesn't know how to act in their current situation. For all fairness sake, this couldn't possibly be blamed on Coria. (If anything, it may be able to be blamed on Merlin, but that's not 100% fair) (Warning: Lots of sarcasm)
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 08:49:19 AM
One last thing: I love how the massive, continent wide war that was meant to end the grid lock and boring dullness of Atamara has basically turned into one huge, boring stalemate. ::)
Wait, its not? I thought for sure this was the goal. It was either that or it was to allow CE to finally have a reason to supplant every non-CE bloc realm with a CE colony so they can finally achieve world domination. Btw, it isn't a huge boring stalemate. From what I can tell CE is slowly but surely winning.
As far as I'm aware Darka never signed any treaty with Coria. There were talks, sure, but Darka never signed anything. Eston probably did and assumed everything was fine and dandy ::)
The issue the northern realms have is that Eston seems to be stuck in a mindset that the war is all about them. All about defending their lands. They're unwilling to move out to actually do damage to CE/Tara. On paper it might seem the north is pretty strong, but when in reality most of the force that's willing to do damage is Darka and what ever BoM can muster, it's not much against both Tara and CE.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
However, the way the Empire Alliance has been able to completely keep the northern realms stuck in the north through basically manipulating diplomatic situations is something impressive for sure. Like, really, why the HELL has the northern alliance not been able to sack Eaglin by now? Oh yeah, Darka is buddy buddy with Talerium who routinely marches into Eston and loots like crazy and Darka seems to not care/notice; and Eston is friendly with Coria who for some reason infuriates the living daylights out of Kostaja and Sordnaz to no end lol.
Seriously? Nor care not notice?We came to defend you countless times and most of the times we were the ones to ask if there is any need because it seems you were so proud to ask for that help in the first place.
Yes Darka cannot attack Talerium but yes there is a mutual agreement on that matter and even when Kostaja tries to establish that by making talks for Cantril i didn't see Eston pretty interested in even answering on it.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
And I think safe positions breed the most arrogance. The truly arrogant realms on Atamara at the moment are all the ones who are involved in the war but are seeing none of it on their own soil: Tara, Darka, BoM.
You know it's funny you say that because maybe at least Darka doesn't get a war at her soil but Darka also has NO PASS into the enemy soils without traveling for two weeks or "breaking" agreements.What you give is what you get.We cannot damage the enemy as we can and we get no damage from the enemy either.Also Ce could easily walk into Darka if they wanted,Tara declared war to Darka,they could easily march into it.There is no aggreement that doesn't allow it,it is their choice.
And in fact when Kostaja is trying to open Cantril for Darka that is going to work BOTH ways.So don't you blame that on Darka at least.
This war is the most boring war i ever saw.Apart Carelia and CE that can have a clear war between them the rest of the battles are jokes.It is always a back and forth.There is absolutely no way to actually cause a damage in this war.
And while you criticize the buddy buddy relationship of Darka and Talerium maybe you should think over from the buddy buddy relationship of Eston and Coria.You call it an honest one,well an honest one it is for Darka and Talerium as well.Maybe you don't like it because it damages you but then again this is why i don't like Coria as well,because it damages our expeditions.
As mucha s we discuss this OOC it is obvious that everyone talks according the way he/she sees his realm in this war and from the things he/she knows from the talks behind scenes this is why is totally personal opinion and not a fact or a neutral point of view.
If diplomacy didn't exist i could preddict you according to these comments the real wars that would be fought and how the alliances would dramatically change.So yeah :P pretty pointless discussing them if you ask me.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
To be fair, this is likely just due to being from Eston. I'm sure Talerium would say the same thing about you. :)
I'm sure! lol
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
Wait, its not? I thought for sure this was the goal. It was either that or it was to allow CE to finally have a reason to supplant every non-CE bloc realm with a CE colony so they can finally achieve world domination. Btw, it isn't a huge boring stalemate. From what I can tell CE is slowly but surely winning.
LOL totally.
Quote from: LilWolf on June 26, 2011, 02:11:21 PM
The issue the northern realms have is that Eston seems to be stuck in a mindset that the war is all about them. All about defending their lands. They're unwilling to move out to actually do damage to CE/Tara. On paper it might seem the north is pretty strong, but when in reality most of the force that's willing to do damage is Darka and what ever BoM can muster, it's not much against both Tara and CE.
Trust me, if we COULD do that we would LOVE to do that. How do you expect the Eston army to march off a week's travel away into Tara when the second we do a Talerium army will march straight into Eston and loot and destory literally every region they can get their hands on, including cities like Hawthrone or Barac Lacirith?
I am honestly completely dumbfounded at how you think currently a big focus of our efforts can be something other than defending Eston lands? Did you not see the 30,000+CS army of Talerium, CE and Tara troops that marched through the heartland of Eston last week looting, destorying infrastructure, and raping and pillaging? What are we supposed to do, just ignore that?
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 02:42:26 PM
Seriously? Nor care not notice?We came to defend you countless times and most of the times we were the ones to ask if there is any need because it seems you were so proud to ask for that help in the first place.
Yes Darka cannot attack Talerium but yes there is a mutual agreement on that matter and even when Kostaja tries to establish that by making talks for Cantril i didn't see Eston pretty interested in even answering on it.
I was exaggerating a little, I apologize. It was more reference to the fact that, in Eston's perception, all Darka wants to do is run suicide missions over the mountains into Tara which doesn't accomplish much.
And I understand Darka's friendship with Talerium, but from an OOC standpoint you have to be able to see that if Darka was willing to attack Talerium the war would change DRAMATICALLY in a number of weeks. If Darka attacked Talerium then Talerium would fall and be neutralized in a couple weeks and the allies would have an easy, straight path into the Cagilan Empire. Surely, you can see this from an OOC viewpoint?
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 02:42:26 PM
You know it's funny you say that because maybe at least Darka doesn't get a war at her soil but Darka also has NO PASS into the enemy soils without traveling for two weeks or "breaking" agreements.What you give is what you get.We cannot damage the enemy as we can and we get no damage from the enemy either.Also Ce could easily walk into Darka if they wanted,Tara declared war to Darka,they could easily march into it.There is no aggreement that doesn't allow it,it is their choice.
I wasn't trying to insult anyone by saying the war wasn't on your soil. To your credit you've played your cards right to where you can fight in this war without having to worry about attacks on your homeland. That's a good thing. I wish Eston was able to have that position.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 26, 2011, 02:42:26 PM
And while you criticize the buddy buddy relationship of Darka and Talerium maybe you should think over from the buddy buddy relationship of Eston and Coria.You call it an honest one,well an honest one it is for Darka and Talerium as well.Maybe you don't like it because it damages you but then again this is why i don't like Coria as well,because it damages our expeditions.
How? Eston's friendship with Coria doesn't keep the northern alliance from marching into CE, while the Talerium and Darka friendship does just that. Also, Coria isn't routinely invading Darka. Talerium routinely invades Eston. I don't see how their is much comparison, honestly.
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 09:24:03 PM
I was exaggerating a little, I apologize. It was more reference to the fact that, in Eston's perception, all Darka wants to do is run suicide missions over the mountains into Tara which doesn't accomplish much.
And I understand Darka's friendship with Talerium, but from an OOC standpoint you have to be able to see that if Darka was willing to attack Talerium the war would change DRAMATICALLY in a number of weeks. If Darka attacked Talerium then Talerium would fall and be neutralized in a couple weeks and the allies would have an easy, straight path into the Cagilan Empire. Surely, you can see this from an OOC viewpoint?
I won't argue on that for sure :) If Darka could enter Cantril ,Eaglin would be down by now.To that i agree.On the other hand if we broke this alliance with Talerium we would be limited back to defend the path from Cantril as you are doing now as well.You passed from aggressive to defending which is normal to a certain level.
Suicide missions to CE from the Mountains are a pain.I said that a million times.If there is someone who absolutely hate those mountains that is me.But let's be honest,if Coria didn't interfere to our recent battles with Tara we would still be there looting them.They didn't see us coming,they weren't prepared.
The northern alliance is blocked in this war,we are limited within the borders of our alliance one way or another.If Eston for example could march through Coria it would make a significant change.Eston would be able to take her blood back for the looting they suffered and win their army leaving for example CE without an ally so with an open backdoor.
This is why it's not simple.Coria is a mysterious train,from one point of view she tries to be neutral but with great restrictions but we all know they are part of CE-Tara-Talerium alliance and as it seems(could be wrong but oh well i doubt i am) Eston wants to ally with Coria at a point...it is one big weird thing and thorn on our backs.
From what i know and i know it from first hand Darka did try to open Cantril ,Eston should support that and this would end the whole story,but there was not much enthusiasm on the matter i think.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
I mean line up every realm for and against them, and their military forces end up be double what CE's allied bloc can field. (or more). Not to mention that the entire island is a pincer attack which is supposed to be good for military strategy.
In classic, real-world military strategy pincer attacks are arguable because of the advantage of interior lines. A number of the benefits of interior lines are negated by the BM message system, but there are still significant remaining ones, especially when the size of the war front is
severely limited on each side. And one of the major remaining benefits is that of smaller refit times, which the CE has used to devastating effect. Not to mention certain realms being so mind-numbingly stupid (or distrustful) as to keep half their CS in militia when they need to be throwing everything they have into the war.
And unfortunately, what this war amounts to is a (very) loose coalition of "Arrgh, we don't like bein' tole wat to do!" realms against a unified alliance that has an integrated command structure and is used to fighting on the same side. I see it more like the Brown Coats vs the Alliance in Firefly. The only unifying theme in the coalition is "we don't like them" whereas there are many, many unifying themes in the alliance.
And yeah, you dumb!@#$ northerners may think this war is a stalemate, but it's really not. Take a look at the map and remember that Carelia's borders used to extend to Oyonniarre and Garnagi, and then realize that everything (and I mean everything) west of Strombran is at this point a burned-out husk.
Get moving, Darka/Eston/BoM, or you're going to wake up one day and realize that Carelia's had a rebellion and a new, CE-friendly Ruler is on the throne, and then those nice buddy-buddy relationships with Coria and Talerium aren't going to be worth !@#$ after the southern front finishes and the full forces of the much, much stronger CE-bloc turn your way.
I question the wisdom of signing a treaty that disallows travel over the regions of a realm who you were just sacking the capitol of. :-\
Well said, Matthew. Its clear enough that the "north" isn't pushing the Imperial forces hard enough to do lasting damage, but lasting damage is certainly being done in the south east. CE won't just try set a new ruler on Carelia's throne though, they'll want Nida and Skalk Duchies expanded, and may consider doing to Carelia what they did to Falasan with Barad Falas. That's really a worst-case for Carelia, but its not a good situation for the north either. It simply makes CE more powerful and the current opposition quite a bit weaker. The problem seems to be some sort of apathy from those moving against CE, with those making efforts facing apathy, or worse, being relatively apathetic themselves, which is seriously disheartening for those other active souls who are hoping for a bit of enthusiasm themselves. A bleak picture, but it could all change in a heartbeat. CE's gains in the south need to be made permanent and them to turn their full attentions north before there is any realistically expected outcome. If things keep going as they are though, the writing is on the wall.
Its said that this war is a stalemate or slow going because of the limited borders for battles to take place on. I'm curious about this. For what possible reason could it be limited? We know the realms on each side. Did they ask politely that the battles not be fought on their lands? And their enemies agreed? If so, Atamara sure is civilized.
Finton.
Quote from: Perth on June 26, 2011, 09:24:03 PM
Trust me, if we COULD do that we would LOVE to do that. How do you expect the Eston army to march off a week's travel away into Tara when the second we do a Talerium army will march straight into Eston and loot and destory literally every region they can get their hands on, including cities like Hawthrone or Barac Lacirith?
I am honestly completely dumbfounded at how you think currently a big focus of our efforts can be something other than defending Eston lands? Did you not see the 30,000+CS army of Talerium, CE and Tara troops that marched through the heartland of Eston last week looting, destorying infrastructure, and raping and pillaging? What are we supposed to do, just ignore that?
Sign peace with Talerium instead of ignoring the proposals being made. There have been proposals, your ruler just hasn't reacted to any of them with much heart. There's one on the table as we speak that could change things considerably, but it's getting ignored. The looting only seems to continue because Eston wants it to.
Quote from: Carna on June 27, 2011, 01:44:36 AM
Its said that this war is a stalemate or slow going because of the limited borders for battles to take place on. I'm curious about this. For what possible reason could it be limited? We know the realms on each side. Did they ask politely that the battles not be fought on their lands? And their enemies agreed? If so, Atamara sure is civilized.
Finton.
Mostly because the sides on this war are both clear-cut and fuzzy. Clear-cut because everyone can name the sides in a heartbeat, and fuzzy because there are cross-side friendships. Suville and Tara like each other, and when the southern alliance was finalized terms were included to make it difficult to fight Tara. Tara doesn't want any damage on
their lands and is happy to keep fighting on the northern front. Eston/Coria and Darka/Talerium have been discussed a lot, so no need to go over that again.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 26, 2011, 11:41:01 AM
Not to mention that the entire island is a pincer attack which is supposed to be good for military strategy.
In Theory the pincer movement is great, and the few times it has been successful have seen great victories. The telling part comes from the creator themselves Sun Tzu, who basically said the manoeuvring should not be used as the enemy army would likely retreat and run before the move could be completed. In this case they would not have an avenue to escape resulting in what could be a ferocious last stand when they realise they have no chance.
It is the basis for a lot of more common military tactics though. The Pincer strategy is great, but is somewhat complex, takes a lot of manoeuvring etc, which results in plenty of things that can go wrong.
Quote from: De-Legro on June 27, 2011, 02:34:36 AM
In Theory the pincer movement is great, and the few times it has been successful have seen great victories. The telling part comes from the creator themselves Sun Tzu, who basically said the manoeuvring should not be used as the enemy army would likely retreat and run before the move could be completed. In this case they would not have an avenue to escape resulting in what could be a ferocious last stand when they realise they have no chance.
It is the basis for a lot of more common military tactics though. The Pincer strategy is great, but is somewhat complex, takes a lot of manoeuvring etc, which results in plenty of things that can go wrong.
You make a very good point and I agree, it is not a very simple strategy in the least, but simple geographical terms of forcing the realms in the center of the continent to diver their forces outward in both directions while handling individual armies which are each fully assembled in strength and not separated should give them an advantage. That is the only reason I thought it odd that CE's managed to not only hold its line for so long but push forward. (Even considering the superb execution of their military, it should still be difficult for them to hold off a well coordinated assault)
Caergoth and Suville are sending something between a third and half the forces they should be putting into the field. The northern realms are more uncoordinated than anyone pre-war had ever dreamed of, and the General of the CE is good while leadership of the southern armies went through some major shifts and is erratic at best.
So what does that mean in terms of AT. I do believe that at the opening stages of this war there were some parties that were celebrating something like "CE will finally be taken down!". So...how likely is that going to be anyway?
Oh, and yeah, I'm back to fighting for the Empire. Meh, you know, battling is fun.
I always wanted to fight a central realm.
Actually, we did fight Hetland, and that was frigging amazing.
If I understand everything correctly, there's a strong central realm resisting a big gang bang? The gang bangers must be awfully poor strategists. Attrition is my best friend, and attacking realms don't use it enough.
If the defenders are surrounded, that means they can't afford counter-attacks (unless the attackers are really, really stupid). Freedom of movement granted by this has such amazing potential.
Too bad I'm totally clueless as to what's going on in Atamara right now. I'm a MI lord. Maybe I'll petition for a marshal position if we ever get involved? Is MI friendly to the central guys or the surrounding guys?
Quote from: Chénier on June 27, 2011, 04:08:54 AM
I always wanted to fight a central realm.
Actually, we did fight Hetland, and that was frigging amazing.
If I understand everything correctly, there's a strong central realm resisting a big gang bang? The gang bangers must be awfully poor strategists. Attrition is my best friend, and attacking realms don't use it enough.
If the defenders are surrounded, that means they can't afford counter-attacks (unless the attackers are really, really stupid). Freedom of movement granted by this has such amazing potential.
Too bad I'm totally clueless as to what's going on in Atamara right now. I'm a MI lord. Maybe I'll petition for a marshal position if we ever get involved? Is MI friendly to the central guys or the surrounding guys?
I'm not even ON AT and I understand the situation better then this. The thread does a pretty good job of pointing out what the sides are, which realms are actually facing off against each other and what the problems are that each realm faces in trying to actually take the war somewhere. It is far more complicated then a single realm facing off against some sort of gang bang.
Quote from: Chénier on June 27, 2011, 04:08:54 AM
If I understand everything correctly, there's a strong central realm resisting a big gang bang? The gang bangers must be awfully poor strategists. Attrition is my best friend, and attacking realms don't use it enough.
You're kidding, right? The CE-bloc that's in the center is the single most notorious "gang-bang" offender in the game. The rest of the island got tired of them dictating every war and finally "united" to do something about it. CE/Tara/Talerium/Coria are not getting "gang-banged" in any way, shape, or form. Add in all the factors, and it's a pretty even fight.
Quote from: Bedwyr on June 27, 2011, 05:04:35 AM
You're kidding, right? The CE-bloc that's in the center is the single most notorious "gang-bang" offender in the game. The rest of the island got tired of them dictating every war and finally "united" to do something about it. CE/Tara/Talerium/Coria are not getting "gang-banged" in any way, shape, or form. Add in all the factors, and it's a pretty even fight.
He did admit he doesn't really know what is going on with regards to AT :)
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on June 27, 2011, 01:32:55 AM
I question the wisdom of signing a treaty that disallows travel over the regions of a realm who you were just sacking the capitol of. :-\
You must keep in mind that when the treaty between Eston and Coria was signed Tara was still flirting with neutrality and trying to attack CE through Tara was not a real option. I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.
Quote from: Artemesia on June 27, 2011, 03:56:34 AM
So what does that mean in terms of AT. I do believe that at the opening stages of this war there were some parties that were celebrating something like "CE will finally be taken down!". So...how likely is that going to be anyway?
Pretty much it means that unless the Northern Alliance can get its act together and get through to put severe pressure on northern CE, then CE will actually end up expanding its power in all likelihood.
Quote from: Perth on June 27, 2011, 06:17:23 AM
You must keep in mind that when the treaty between Eston and Coria was signed Tara was still flirting with neutrality and trying to attack CE through Tara was not a real option. I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.
Pretty much it means that unless the Northern Alliance can get its act together and get through to put severe pressure on northern CE, then CE will actually end up expanding its power in all likelihood.
Would be nice for Eston to do its part. It takes forever for Darka and BoM to get down there, but they have a near instant refit time. Therefore they would be the logical choice for offensive actions.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on June 27, 2011, 06:44:54 AM
Would be nice for Eston to do its part. It takes forever for Darka and BoM to get down there, but they have a near instant refit time. Therefore they would be the logical choice for offensive actions.
Please, outline for me the course of action Eston should take to adequately "do its part".
We have been unable to break through Talerium to get to CE without Darkan support, and even if we to get through Coria, so what? We sit and fight huge Taran/CE armies with no harm done to CE... which is the goal, if I'm not mistaken.
Quote from: Silverfire on June 25, 2011, 11:07:21 AMAt any rate, I think it is hard to argue with the fact that CE, Tara, Talerium, and Coria have the single most organized and efficient allied military system on Atamara, and likely in the entire game
I'll give you CE and Tara. They obviously have close coordination. Long practice and geographic proximity are probably the biggest factors in this. CE/Taras central position on the island is a major advantage, given that the political situation effectively negates the similarly major
disadvantage of all of those miles and miles of borders. They've been able to narrow the frontlines to a very narrow stretch of land that is easily defended by their massive armies.
But let's not discount the value of advanced information. Coria's ability to give them several days worth of warning whenever a northern army is on the way. Much easier to have an army ready to meet the invaders if you already where they're going, and when they'll be there, four days in advance.
But I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree on Talerium's efficiency. From what I've see, Talerium's army is effective only when combined with CE/Tara's massive CS. Whenever Talerium tries to operate on their own, they move poorly, and choose horrible battles to fight. Almost like they don't even bother scouting around, or considering the fact that there could be enemy forces nearby.
Quote from: Perth on June 27, 2011, 06:17:23 AMI still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.
If that were only an option, the war might already be over. :(
Quote from: Perth on June 27, 2011, 07:29:27 AM
Please, outline for me the course of action Eston should take to adequately "do its part".
We have been unable to break through Talerium to get to CE without Darkan support, and even if we to get through Coria, so what? We sit and fight huge Taran/CE armies with no harm done to CE... which is the goal, if I'm not mistaken.
Eston should go on the offensive into Coria. Yes, I know, the treaty, but it was a stupid one to sign in the first place, given that we were plundering their capitol with impunity. Take them completely out of the war, one way or another, or at the very least force them to give us right to movement over their lands into Tara and CE. Once that phase is complete, attack Tara with BoM while Darka guards against attacks from Talerium.
QuoteEston should go on the offensive into Coria. Yes, I know, the treaty, but it was a stupid one to sign in the first place, given that we were plundering their capitol with impunity.
Despite the hearsay and assumptions which have been made, so far Coria has actually been completely neutral. Yeah we are allied to CE, and I want them to win, especially given my dealings with the Northern realms (other than Eston).
But all you are suggesting is you add a bit more weight to the large armies CE and Tara can field, such an action would also allow Military access to Tara in the North East through Menedor which results in Eston being hit in a pincer movement themselves.
The only realms who can realistically take land from Eston in the North are Coria and Talerium. Would Saeculo and Coria accept land from Eston if we were to be offered it by our allies if and when they are victorious? I personally don't think so, not given Kerwin's attitude during the current War.
Given the current situation, I personally don't believe the North would benefit hugely from attacking Coria. Whether or not Coria
chooses to become involved again itself is something that we'll have to wait and see.
But woop-de-doo you sacked our Capital and left when a large army of CE/Tara had arrived. You didn't even achieve that through a huge Military victory. It was completed through political finesse. Merlin is no longer the sole ambassador and such a situation would not arise again in my opinion through such means.
In my previous statement about the arrogance of the Northern realms, I only meant some of them (mainly the ones I named). I wouldn't say that Eston was at all.
Quote from: Munro on June 27, 2011, 04:58:37 PMBut woop-de-doo you sacked our Capital and left when a large army of CE/Tara had arrived. You didn't even achieve that through a huge Military victory. It was completed through political finesse.
Actually it was along the lines of taking advantage of a serendipitous opportunity.
"Wow, this is a rather large army we assembled in Belegmon. Too bad this march up into the mountains is so stinking long... I hate these mountains."
"Hey, wait a minute. Barad Falas doesn't have much militia. And it's mostly archers. And Coria's army is in Menedor. And the duke's not in his city.
"Anyone know where the duke is?"
"Not me...."
"I think he's over in Anost. Lemme get a scout report. ... Yep, he's in Anost."
"Anost? WTF is he doing in Anost?"
"How the hell should I know?"
"Well, who cares. Attack!"
Seriously, that's pretty much how it went. Not a single northern general or marshal knew anything at all about Eston's planned peace talks with Coria, or that the duke of Barad Falas was headed to Eston to conduct peace talks. You'd think that would have been something that Eston should have told their general. Who should then have told the rest of the northern armies. Because I swear to god, that luring the duke out and then attacking was /not/ planned. There was no northern conspiracy to lure the duke away. (Unless it was Eston's general's private plan. But I don't see that as being the case. If it was, then more power to him. But I doubt it.) IMO, it was a simple case of lack of communication in Eston, and more than a little naïveté on the part of Coria's duke.
Quote from: Perth on June 27, 2011, 06:17:23 AM
I still think it is a terrible option compared with the alternative of walking through a broken Talerium right into CE.
You think that because this is what benefits your point of view at this point.Because if you were to open your borders to massacre you would think otherwise.
If Darka goes against Talerium and "opens" as you say the Cantril path BY WAR, then all those that come into Eston now and loot will do the same to Darka.Which means that once more they will find a way to keep a force back to defend.It is the same thing only you refuse to see it.
The fact is that there are talks about opening that path the peaceful way or talks for ending the war between Talerium and Eston and i don't see your character answering to those.If the King of Eston wanted to see the issue of Cantril solved then maybe he should take part on those discussions to which from what i know he stands mute.
Creating another warpath is not the only solution.
Hehe, I can picture that scene outside of Barad Falas :)
Creating another "warpath" may not be the only solution, but it seems to me to be a solution. It would allow the north to cut a fairly direct line to Eaglin, Cagil or even, for the big cash, Calis. Of course, that would mean fighting the way through Talerium, but is that more or less appealing than the current situation? Not for me to decide, obviously, but its a question that should be asked if things are to change.
I'm fairly apathetic as to who win's this particular war at this stage, probably because I haven't really been all that involved in it, but if it goes to who's worked hardest for it, it goes to the CE alliance. I'm constantly hoping for some real leadership to come from the opposition, but it seems very fragmented right now.
Some random thoughts for the sunset.
Finton.
QuoteBecause I swear to god, that luring the duke out and then attacking was /not/ planned. There was no northern conspiracy to lure the duke away.
That's a shame, as in the North, that's been the most impressive (and successful) tactic I've witnessed so far. The fact it was by chance doesn't make it any less successful, but I'd have been even more impressed (simply because Eston seemed so sincere in it's agreement for peace and had most of the Corian leadership believing we wouldn't be attacked again- it just turns out that it actually was wanting peace and it wasn't a rouse!)
Quote from: Carna on June 27, 2011, 06:17:50 PM
Creating another "warpath" may not be the only solution, but it seems to me to be a solution. It would allow the north to cut a fairly direct line to Eaglin, Cagil or even, for the big cash, Calis. Of course, that would mean fighting the way through Talerium, but is that more or less appealing than the current situation? Not for me to decide, obviously, but its a question that should be asked if things are to change.
There is a saying that goes like this "outside the ball many songs are heard".I don't expect you to make sense from it so i will explain.When you are not in the problem it is easy to find solutions.Currently Eston has an open war with Talerium (and BoM so far helped them) and Tal+ friends managed in the end not only to stop them from entering Talerium but to attack them to Nazamroth and TO it.
You really believe that just because Darka will enter this war and pass from Talerium it would sack Eaglin in a week?It is not as easy as you believe.Real leadership? What don't you people understand that there are talks for freeing the Cantril path without the collateral damage and noone is trying to work on that direction except Darka?
Does it have to be war when it can be held open with peace?A war is not just fighting and showing your teeth,a war is also politics.If Cantril ever opened it would mean Darka can pass and of course viceversa,but Talerium would not attack Darka as of course Darka would not attack Talerium.Crazy stuff huh?
You want to realize the problem?I will tell you the problem.Cagilan has an exceptional alliance and a very strong to the core.Tara Ce and Talerium are one next to another ,one strong Core and with very fast reacting military force.They have Coria almost securing their borders since passing from them means crushing into the forsaken mountains and BIIIIING the other way to Tara is closed and brings their army in as well,not of course to mention the fact they prepare the enemy of the upcoming forces.So attacking from there is idiotic.Thus one side and ally is totally secured there.
Then it's Talerium that secures the other path but also holds a neutral stance as long as you stand neutral to them.So who would like to have a void attacking border from the one side and an open one from the other side that yes it will work both ways but it will also bring all the war into 2 of the northren lands and some of CE.
The north doesn't have such a strong alliance and it seems poor in coordination as everyone (and by that i mean Darka as well) is trying to protect what it can.The only difference with Darka is that they always brought the largest combat force against CE but with that kind of attacks it was useless.
And it saddens me to see that all that is attacked is Darka.Why Darka is the weakest link again?Because they are the big bad mercenaries?If Eston declared war on Coria and did not sign that peace treaty we would be looting Tara to the ground and we would see then if CE would bring reinforcements to Talerium to attack Eston.They wouldn't.The most important and coordinated ally CE has is Tara and their lands are open for "rape" if you allow me the word.There are a gazillion ways to make this war happen but it requires a strong core alliance to face another strong core alliance.Our isn't working like this unfortunately.As a player this is my opinion.
I think the real conclusion here is, Miscordia, that everyone can see OOC the reasons why everyone else IC is doing what they're doing. Eston wants to maintain a relationship with Coria and Darka wants to maintain one with Talerium. OOC I can clearly see the problems with each.
Quote from: Misericordia on June 27, 2011, 10:05:33 PM
There are a gazillion ways to make this war happen but it requires a strong core alliance to face another strong core alliance.Our isn't working like this unfortunately.As a player this is my opinion.
And I think here is where you really hit the meat of the issue in this war. The CE alliance is old, strong and knows exactly what they are doing. They have been fighting wars together against Northern and Southern realms for years now.
However, this is the first time in my 4 year memory of the game that the realms of North have all allied to fight together. Traditionally, we northern realms argue and bicker and fight each other. We managed to not be fighting each other now, but we are still stuck in our arguing and bickering. Somehow, if we're going to win, we've got to figure our how be one cohesive unit without all the constant disagreements.
Quote from: Perth on June 27, 2011, 10:33:15 PM
However, this is the first time in my 4 year memory of the game that the realms of North have all allied to fight together. Traditionally, we northern realms argue and bicker and fight each other. We managed to not be fighting each other now, but we are still stuck in our arguing and bickering. Somehow, if we're going to win, we've got to figure our how be one cohesive unit without all the constant disagreements.
I couldn't agree more with you.Even if Darka had the oldest alliance with Eston and a pretty old one with Talerium..so far it used to fight on Tara's side and CE's side..not against them.I can see this and why it is creating a problem.
What i can't see is how will the north become a fist in order to do something and also ease the burden of Carelia.The peace talks with Talerium and a way for Cantril to open would be a relief for everyone, but i see no light to it because of this bickering.Even when we try to find solutions we sabotage them ourselves.It is a dead end.
Quote from: De-Legro on June 27, 2011, 05:12:24 AM
He did admit he doesn't really know what is going on with regards to AT :)
Yup, I'm completely clueless. I put the dynamic map next to the diplomacy page and still can't really figure out what's going on. All I know is that Minas Ithil ain't doing much of anything.
Quote from: Chénier on June 28, 2011, 02:00:09 AM
Yup, I'm completely clueless. I put the dynamic map next to the diplomacy page and still can't really figure out what's going on. All I know is that Minas Ithil ain't doing much of anything.
I'm not playing in AT right now, but from what I gathered here:
CE, Tara, Talerium, Coria are the central block, fighting mostly northwards.
Darka, BoM, and Eston (not sure if the other northern realms are included) are a not very cohesive block against the central block. But Darka is friendly with Talerium, Eston is friendly with Coria.
Carelia, Caergoth and Suville are apparently fighting Tara?
Quote from: Bluelake on June 28, 2011, 02:24:26 AM
I'm not playing in AT right now, but from what I gathered here:
CE, Tara, Talerium, Coria are the central block, fighting mostly northwards.
Darka, BoM, and Eston (not sure if the other northern realms are included) are a not very cohesive block against the central block. But Darka is friendly with Talerium, Eston is friendly with Coria.
Carelia, Caergoth and Suville are apparently fighting Tara?
Close.
Darka, Eston, BoM, Hammarsett are the Northern Alliance, currently fighting Talerium, CE and Tara. Coria is allied with the CE block but at the moment at peace with everyone.
Carelia, Caergoth and Suville are fighting CE, with a bit of Taran aid to CE.
It was continent wide pairing of North and South to fight the Central CE block.
Quote from: Bluelake on June 28, 2011, 02:24:26 AM
I'm not playing in AT right now, but from what I gathered here:
CE, Tara, Talerium, Coria are the central block, fighting mostly northwards.
Darka, BoM, and Eston (not sure if the other northern realms are included) are a not very cohesive block against the central block. But Darka is friendly with Talerium, Eston is friendly with Coria.
Carelia, Caergoth and Suville are apparently fighting Tara?
Summary:
CE, Tara, Talerium are the central block fighting both north and south. CE is primarily fighting south, while Tara and Talerium primarily fight the north. Coria was forced out of the war earlier in the fight, and sits primarily neutral when not being attacked for no apparent reason.
The North is trying to fight to get to CE and has had little success. The South is primarily fighting CE, and losing quite badly because Carelia is being overrun continuously.
And the plot thickens: (for reference "us" means "Coria")
"A new war is breaking out (5 hours ago)
Hammarsett has declared war on Tara.
A new war is breaking out (4 hours, 59 minutes ago)
Hammarsett has declared war on Talerium.
War! (4 hours, 57 minutes ago)
Hammarsett has declared war on us!
War! (4 hours, 8 minutes ago)
Minas Ithil has declared war on us!
A new war is breaking out (4 hours, 5 minutes ago)
Minas Ithil has declared war on Tara."
How will this affect the war? With every single realm now fully in the war, is the balanced tipped or will this not really effect the balance much?
The balance in the south is changing. The sheeple in Carelia can be thanked for that.
On the plus side your new King seems pretty sharp, but I don't know what he has to work with. I also don't know what Caergoth and Suville are doing - they seem pretty unresponsive lately.
Hehe, well, Suville's just been very responsive. The balance isn't tipped though. Check your letters, I suggest (",)
Quote from: Carna on July 10, 2011, 05:50:45 PM
Hehe, well, Suville's just been very responsive. The balance isn't tipped though. Check your letters, I suggest (",)
I would, but I find myself in prison. Talk about humiliating...
Quote from: Geronus on July 11, 2011, 07:40:51 AM
I would, but I find myself in prison. Talk about humiliating...
Heh. I saw that in the turn announcements and thought "not a good start to the war..." :D
Seems like I missed a big battle. When I saw it I started running from York to at least get there for a bit of looting. Hopefully the armies won't refit too soon.
Quote from: Huntsmaster on July 11, 2011, 11:45:40 PM
Heh. I saw that in the turn announcements and thought "not a good start to the war..." :D
Not for me anyway!
Muahahahahahaha! Tucha was left wide open and the Northern Alliance (funny how it is the same name as the group that fought the Taliban in Afghanistan, but that's a discussion for another time) struck with great force. Now Darka is at work demolishing the defences and burning down the military infrastructure!
Let['s hope it goes better than the last few time we hit (or tried to hit) Tucha.
Quote from: Indirik on July 16, 2011, 12:23:54 AM
Let['s hope it goes better than the last few time we hit (or tried to hit) Tucha.
Well, we *did* overtake the walls.
Unfortunately, I was wounded during the battle. That wasn't as bad as happened to one of our allies, whose unit lost two men, retreated. During the retreat, 15 men were slaughtered.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on July 16, 2011, 03:26:46 AM
Unfortunately, I was wounded during the battle. That wasn't as bad as happened to one of our allies, whose unit lost two men, retreated. During the retreat, 15 men were slaughtered.
Ouch.
Yes, ouch.
QuoteWhat is bad luck but another man's good fortune?
Tara would agree. Harsh retreat, but at what percentage were they to fall back? Maybe went back too early, by the sounds of it.
The war is getting more interesting though. Suville pulling back from Carelia, Caergoth with a new Queen in spite of a successful rebellion, fighting pushing into Talerium and northern Tara and, well, CE still hurting Carelia far more than Carelia is hurting CE. Fun to take part in :)
Finton.
With the north finally getting its act together (hopefully it stays that way) the loss of the quite pathetic Suvillian contributions (assuming 1. Caergoth's new Queen and I can't bully them back in or 2. they don't actually attack Carelia, and I'd say odds are pretty even split between those) isn't going to hurt Carelia as much as the northern armies are going to hurt the central alliance.
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 16, 2011, 10:09:24 AM
With the north finally getting its act together (hopefully it stays that way) the loss of the quite pathetic Suvillian contributions (assuming 1. Caergoth's new Queen and I can't bully them back in or 2. they don't actually attack Carelia, and I'd say odds are pretty even split between those) isn't going to hurt Carelia as much as the northern armies are going to hurt the central alliance.
I don't think that Carelia is in the position to bully anyone. Good luck with that.
Quote from: Darksun on July 16, 2011, 02:44:32 PMI don't think that Carelia is in the position to bully anyone. Good luck with that.
But if they bully anyone, it will probably be the family that twice betrayed them.
Quote from: Darksun on July 16, 2011, 02:44:32 PM
I don't think that Carelia is in the position to bully anyone. Good luck with that.
No, Carelia's not. Ishtar D'Anglos and Malcolm Bedwyr might be able to, though. Unless something's drastically changed in Suville, the D'Anglos name should count for a
lot and there are at least a couple of people for whom House Bedwyr means something. And, you know, blatant treaty breaking tends to make people feel guilty and susceptible to bullying.
QuoteAnd, you know, blatant treaty breaking tends to make people feel guilty and susceptible to bullying.
I don't know the full details of this treaty, and I'm going to state potentially a biased opinion, but Carelia has had plenty of time to honour their own side of the agreement made with Suville, which was in the form of land I believe? Additionally, there are not many realms or nobles on Atamara who are fond of the snakes and now that Carelia has elected one, I'm surprised there isn't more uproar from those nations who have a large religion base that view MS as evil.
From what I've experienced, Carelia's new leader seems extremely reasonable, and a nice guy actually, but this doesn't mean he isn't a snake worshiper, which is a shame as Saeculo doesn't dislike him personally. Not compared to the likes of Regulus and Sigurd.
Suville not getting Wayburg is a direct result of Suville not being worth half a damn as an ally in the war. They were never getting Wayburg as long as Carelia didn't have Nida.
Quote from: Munro on July 16, 2011, 08:16:35 PMI don't know the full details of this treaty, and I'm going to state potentially a biased opinion, but Carelia has had plenty of time to honour their own side of the agreement made with Suville, which was in the form of land I believe?
And Suville has had plenty of time to put something actually resembling an army onto the front, which might have taken Nida long enough to get that land under the terms of the treaty.
Quote from: Munro on July 16, 2011, 08:16:35 PM
I don't know the full details of this treaty, and I'm going to state potentially a biased opinion, but Carelia has had plenty of time to honour their own side of the agreement made with Suville, which was in the form of land I believe?
Nope. Treaty was that Caergoth got Ser'quea when Carelia got a city, which happened, and Suville would get Wayburg when Carelia got another city.
Quote from: Munro on July 16, 2011, 08:16:35 PM
From what I've experienced, Carelia's new leader seems extremely reasonable, and a nice guy actually, but this doesn't mean he isn't a snake worshiper, which is a shame as Saeculo doesn't dislike him personally. Not compared to the likes of Regulus and Sigurd.
I'm almost offended you didn't mention Laszlo in there. I thought we had a beautiful IC grudge going.
QuoteNope. Treaty was that Caergoth got Ser'quea when Carelia got a city, which happened, and Suville would get Wayburg when Carelia got another city
Indeed, and my point was you've had plenty of time to gain another city from the CE, you've had a much larger force than the Empire. You can't blame your allies for getting fed up of any lack of progress. Maybe I'm not being entirely fair to Carelia, but I am surprised you haven't done better, the start of the War and the acquisition of Skalk couldn't have gone better, yet since then it seems you have been on the back foot.
QuoteI'm almost offended you didn't mention Laszlo in there. I thought we had a beautiful IC grudge going.
I apologise :P I was actually going to add him but I was in a rush and couldn't find the time to double check the spelling of his name, so didn't want to offend anyone. To be fair though, I can't say I have much against Laszlo, but for some reason, and even as a player I can't quite put my finger on it, Regulus and Sigurd just annoy Saeculo.
If we are being honest, Coria and Hammarsett will never live alongside each other peacefully. If this War doesn't end in total destruction for either realm, this will be the modern equivalent of North and South Korea!
Quote from: Munro on July 17, 2011, 02:43:58 AM
Indeed, and my point was you've had plenty of time to gain another city from the CE, you've had a much larger force than the Empire. You can't blame your allies for getting fed up of any lack of progress. Maybe I'm not being entirely fair to Carelia, but I am surprised you haven't done better, the start of the War and the acquisition of Skalk couldn't have gone better, yet since then it seems you have been on the back foot.
(grins wryly) What reports have
you been seeing? Carelia's army by itself is no match for the CE, and Suville and Caergoth have contributed such small forces (generally 5-6K each, though Suville had a bigger one recently, that fight for a week tops and then take two-three weeks to refit) that the
combined armies of Carelia, Caergoth, and Suville can't fight the full Cagilan army in the field. As we managed to prove several times.
Without the allies present, Carelia could only nip at the edges of the Cagilan force while it burned everything in the western third of the realm to the ground.
Certainly, Carelia's made a poor showing in the war, but it's been considerably better than anything Caergoth or Suville have done.
Quote from: Munro on July 17, 2011, 02:43:58 AM
If we are being honest, Coria and Hammarsett will never live alongside each other peacefully. If this War doesn't end in total destruction for either realm, this will be the modern equivalent of North and South Korea!
Well, that's certainly how it has worked out. Hammarsett needs to expand if it's ever going to thrive. It didn't have to be at Coria's expense (nor will it necessarily end up that way), but events have conspired to make Coria the best opportunity by far.
Quote from: Geronus on July 17, 2011, 04:39:13 AM
Well, that's certainly how it has worked out. Hammarsett needs to expand if it's ever going to thrive. It didn't have to be at Coria's expense (nor will it necessarily end up that way), but events have conspired to make Coria the best opportunity by far.
This is quite simply not true, or at least heavily biased. Hammarsett has had opportunities to expand in the "other" direction but have chosen not to. More like, Hammarsett's choices of allies and pretty much overeager and bad leaders (in terms of diplomacy only) led to the current situation. Ceaselessly pissing off Coria hasn't done them any good. Now of course, Coria is probably your best and only opportunity to expand. Granted, I doubt it will succeed, because that requires the north to actually win this war before the south completely crumbles.
Not to mention Coria's war resources dwarfs that of Hammarsett, and Coria will win any 1v1 style fight against them. (IMO)
Quote from: Geronus on July 16, 2011, 11:18:26 PM
I'm almost offended you didn't mention Laszlo in there. I thought we had a beautiful IC grudge going.
I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ? I mean, I'm seriously curious because this has been happening since Merlin was ruler and without fail each new ruler just doesn't get along with ours. haha :)
Quote from: Silverfire on July 17, 2011, 08:31:14 AM
This is quite simply not true, or at least heavily biased. Hammarsett has had opportunities to expand in the "other" direction but have chosen not to. More like, Hammarsett's choices of allies and pretty much overeager and bad leaders (in terms of diplomacy only) led to the current situation. Ceaselessly pissing off Coria hasn't done them any good. Now of course, Coria is probably your best and only opportunity to expand. Granted, I doubt it will succeed, because that requires the north to actually win this war before the south completely crumbles.
Not to mention Coria's war resources dwarfs that of Hammarsett, and Coria will win any 1v1 style fight against them. (IMO)
I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ? I mean, I'm seriously curious because this has been happening since Merlin was ruler and without fail each new ruler just doesn't get along with ours. haha :)
I'm sure this opinion is much less biased.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 17, 2011, 08:31:14 AM
This is quite simply not true, or at least heavily biased. Hammarsett has had opportunities to expand in the "other" direction but have chosen not to. More like, Hammarsett's choices of allies and pretty much overeager and bad leaders (in terms of diplomacy only) led to the current situation. Ceaselessly pissing off Coria hasn't done them any good. Now of course, Coria is probably your best and only opportunity to expand. Granted, I doubt it will succeed, because that requires the north to actually win this war before the south completely crumbles.
Not to mention Coria's war resources dwarfs that of Hammarsett, and Coria will win any 1v1 style fight against them. (IMO)
I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ? I mean, I'm seriously curious because this has been happening since Merlin was ruler and without fail each new ruler just doesn't get along with ours. haha :)
What exactly that I said isn't true? I'm sure if you reread what I wrote, you'll notice that it does not actually conflict with anything that you just said.
As for our relations, it's as much Coria's fault as ours. Your leaders are at least as good at annoying us as vice versa. I've never dealt with Merlin myself, but if he was anything like Saeculo then he would have gotten on Laszlo's nerves too. You seem to think that you're reasonable people. It does not come across that way when you deal with us. Quite the opposite in fact, you're extremely unreasonable.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 17, 2011, 08:31:14 AMI'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ?
I think it's the national pastime of all northern realms: "Piss off Coria whenever possible."
But, honestly, you put yourself in the prime position to anger each and every one of your northern neighbors. I don't understand why you would be surprised at the outcome. (Except for Eston. I have no idea what you guys managed to slip into their water supply.)
Quote from: Indirik on July 18, 2011, 02:17:15 AM
I think it's the national pastime of all northern realms: "Piss off Coria whenever possible."
But, honestly, you put yourself in the prime position to anger each and every one of your northern neighbors. I don't understand why you would be surprised at the outcome. (Except for Eston. I have no idea what you guys managed to slip into their water supply.)
Really, it's just the national pastime of all northern realms to piss off everyone they can. The only reason they aren't all fighting each other is this weird unification in the common enemy of the CE.
Quote from: Perth on July 18, 2011, 02:42:26 AM
Really, it's just the national pastime of all northern realms to piss off everyone they can. The only reason they aren't all fighting each other is this weird unification in the common enemy of the CE.
It's because we can't ever have a decent war with each other without them sticking their noses in ;)
QuoteAs for our relations, it's as much Coria's fault as ours. Your leaders are at least as good at annoying us as vice versa. I've never dealt with Merlin myself, but if he was anything like Saeculo then he would have gotten on Laszlo's nerves too.
I have to say I agree, there are two sides to every story and I have no doubt that Coria and Saeculo annoys Hammarsett just as much as vice versa. In fact, I'm glad, because I try bloody hard to annoy Hammarsett, Saeculo hates them, he wants them destroyed. Ask his allies ;)
Whenever he has dealt with the North, there has been few occasions were he has included Hammarsett. There was a phase were he refused to recognise their existence and sovereignty, seeing them more as a terrorist realm. As an IC decision I've had my Servants burn any letter with a Hammard seal before delivering it to me.
It's a shame because as a player, I wanted to see more smaller realms, and I wanted an end to the dominance of some of the bigger ones such as the CE. Yet all this War has done to my character is bring him closer to the members of the Central Alliance and determined to destroy Hammarsett.
Looking at it from a player perspective I honestly can't believe the beef the North has with Coria. When I say the North I mean BoM and Darka because we don't have much against MI.
We were told the reason for War was to attack the CE. You've done everything but this, and as a character Saeculo gave you direct access to the CE. Just because the terrain wasn't optimal, that's hardly the fault of Coria. Not only this, but you had the opportunity to attack the CE and then retreat back through Coria and you knew you wouldn't be followed by the CE as they were unable to use our lands to attack you. Our agreement was much more favourable to the North than it was to our own allies, and personally I'm glad you broke it, as it leaves the CE safer or with the chance to at least fight back.
Eston is a completely different kettle of fish, and Saeculo really likes Kerwin, whether this is to the detriment of Coria shall remain to be seen, but after this War is over, I can't see either realm being very bitter about the other. Which is fortunate as I'd much rather burn Darka or BoM to the ground than Eston... haha :-* But seriously, there seems to be a mutual respect between Coria and Eston which is why we get on well, whereas I've always felt that Kostaja and Sordnaz have never been the most sincere. Saeculo trusts Kerwin whereas he doesn't the others and perhaps this has an influence on how Coria is seen by the North.
I don't pretend that Coria is an angel, we've used certain things to our advantage. But during the period in which we were neutral, we were completely neutral and I see the declarations against us more as the North's frustration at the lack of success in the current War.
Quote(Except for Eston. I have no idea what you guys managed to slip into their water supply.)
Ahhhh, the benefits of sharing the Great Lake with Eston...means you can slip almost anything into their water supply ;)
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 04:41:21 AM
I don't pretend that Coria is an angel, we've used certain things to our advantage. But during the period in which we were neutral, we were completely neutral and I see the declarations against us more as the North's frustration at the lack of success in the current War.
That's partially true, but there are other reasons. Like the fact that Laszlo is convinced Coria was going to attack Hammarsett in the end no matter what. And the fact that we can't get at Tara without going through Coria. And the fact that in Laszlo's view you violated your neutrality when you attacked Darkan and Barony troops on Taran soil. There are lots of reasons in fact. It was not out of pure pique.
QuoteThat's partially true, but there are other reasons. Like the fact that Laszlo is convinced Coria was going to attack Hammarsett in the end no matter what.
That's a vicious circle then, because we considered attacking you because we believed you were going to attack us in order to expand and thrive. That and you can't seem to control your nobles, who insisted on taking a stroll in Corian lands every few months or so. You broke the peace agreement first. When you started threatening War with Coria when we were going to travel down South, Saeculo made it perfectly clear that he would no longer be so gracious if your nobles continued to enter our lands....which they did!
QuoteAnd the fact that we can't get at Tara without going through Coria.
You've now agreed not to attack Tara... This can't have been that important.
QuoteAnd the fact that in Laszlo's view you violated your neutrality when you attacked Darkan and Barony troops on Taran soil. There are lots of reasons in fact. It was not out of pure pique.
They broke Corian neutrality and the terms of our peace agreement. It was made specifically clear that the Northern regions of Coria were out of bounds. Whilst they deny it IC, I personally believe they knew this quite well and were testing Coria. I wasn't going to allow them to not only break the peace agreement, but then attack our ally. So Corian troops defended Tara, after the North betrayed their own word and not for the first time. Again, the North started the aggression first.
Fair point though, from your characters point of view, those reasons you gave were valid. In the same way that I was able to respond with why my character would believe them to be unfair reasons. At the end of the day, it shows exactly why we are at War ;)
I think it is certainly a fair point that pretty much my statements as well as those from the other side are both tainted by IC biases at times. (if not all the time).
Although I do find it extremely odd from a player's point of view as to how it is exactly that the north fights Coria specifically so much.
From my somewhat biased point of view, I would say that Merlin was a lot less antagonistic with Hammarsett specifically than Saeculo likely is after reading his more recent posts. However, I do believe that Darka and BoM certainly got pissed off enough from Merlin from what I can tell anyway. He wasn't trying to, because Merlin actually sought peace, but apparently we just didn't think alike.
As to the water supply, you'll have to ask the dockworkers at Barad Falas....Although, they're sworn to its Duke not some snooper who is asking questions. ;)
Quote from: Silverfire on July 18, 2011, 06:05:36 AM
Although I do find it extremely odd from a player's point of view as to how it is exactly that the north fights Coria specifically so much.
Simple. You're in the way :P
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 04:41:21 AM
I've had my Servants burn any letter with a Hammard seal before delivering it to me.
You have them burn it
before delivering it to you? That's a bit odd. "Here, my lord, this pile of ashes came for you today."
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 04:41:21 AM
Eston is a completely different kettle of fish, and Saeculo really likes Kerwin, whether this is to the detriment of Coria shall remain to be seen, but after this War is over, I can't see either realm being very bitter about the other. Which is fortunate as I'd much rather burn Darka or BoM to the ground than Eston... haha :-* But seriously, there seems to be a mutual respect between Coria and Eston which is why we get on well, whereas I've always felt that Kostaja and Sordnaz have never been the most sincere. Saeculo trusts Kerwin whereas he doesn't the others and perhaps this has an influence on how Coria is seen by the North.
I'm not really sure why Eston and Coria started getting along so well and why they've been able to maintain that relationship throughout this conflict. Partly, I think it was due to Kerwin's desire to heal the damage done by his predecessor when he took the throne. However, I think most of it has to do with the fact that Eston and Coria are actually very similar. They're central realms that are surrounded on all sides by potential enemies who want to be very careful about their diplomatic hand and how they play it because it could end them up in a lot of hurt.
Everyone complained about Eston signing peace with Coria because the North was "beating" Coria when it was signed, but truth of the matter it that sure the tide of the war may have changed soon after Kerwin took office, but this was in large part due to his own diplomatic maneuvering, apologies for his predecessor and relationship building. But for the period of time prior to that CE and Taran armies had been marauding through Eston heartland burning and pillaging everything. Eston and Coria both signed peace and their alliances accused them of being "soft" but truth is Eston and Coria are the only two realms (along with Carelia) to actually have to pay any price in this war so far. Everyone else is just having fun sending their armies off on long two week sorties. I think Eston and Coria have uniquely different views from everyone else on the current conflict.
That isn't to say however, that Eston's solidarity isn't with the North. Eston wants the CE damaged more than anything, and while Kerwin definitely tried to dissuade another war with Coria, and won't participate in it, he also saw that something had to happen to change the course of the war, because the path the North was on wasn't going anywhere unless Darka would attack Talerium... and they wouldn't.
Quote from: Perth on July 18, 2011, 07:36:18 AM
because the path the North was on wasn't going anywhere unless Darka would attack Talerium... and they wouldn't.
I love how this quote so easily paints the picture of differences between modern times and olden times. Nowadays when a nation "won't" do something to another nation due to diplomacy, they just send in their black ops and spies to do the jobs, on stealth missions and such. I mean if it wasn't for all of the places that the superpowers of the world "won't" fight in, and actually do I'm sure our military would get bored.
Quote from: Perth on July 18, 2011, 07:36:18 AM
I'm not really sure why Eston and Coria started getting along so well and why they've been able to maintain that relationship throughout this conflict.
Has he seriously not noticed his secretary wearing a sage's hat that has a gold lion on it?
Quote from: Silverfire on July 18, 2011, 08:23:24 AM
Has he seriously not noticed his secretary wearing a sage's hat that has a gold lion on it?
Wait, what? Who and who's secretary?
Quote from: Perth on July 18, 2011, 08:29:34 AM
Wait, what? Who and who's secretary?
King of Eston of course. Brainwashing was the easiest solution for peace, so we just sent our best magicker to get the job done. Seems to have worked nicely of course. :) Posing as the King's scribe seems to have worked wonders for his credibility.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 18, 2011, 06:05:36 AMI think it is certainly a fair point that pretty much my statements as well as those from the other side are both tainted by IC biases at times. (if not all the time).
Yeah, well, we all are. I don't think anyone is capable of discussing this with complete neutrality.
QuoteAlthough I do find it extremely odd from a player's point of view as to how it is exactly that the north fights Coria specifically so much.
You keep getting in our way! Grr... >:(
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 05:04:42 AMThey broke Corian neutrality and the terms of our peace agreement. It was made specifically clear that the Northern regions of Coria were out of bounds. Whilst they deny it IC, I personally believe they knew this quite well and were testing Coria. I wasn't going to allow them to not only break the peace agreement, but then attack our ally. So Corian troops defended Tara, after the North betrayed their own word and not for the first time. Again, the North started the aggression first.
This is the first time I've ever heard any such condition on the agreement Darka had with Tara. From what I was told, the agreement was that the north could use Corian regions to attack CE, but not Tara,
unless Tara attacked first. And Tara did attack, going against their word they gave at the beginning of the conflict that they wouldn't. Which then freed up the north to attack Tara through Coria. (Plus Coria's blatant interference in the war by sending troops to help Tara in the war really torqued off a few people.) I've never heard any conditions on "you can use these regions, but not these".
Quote from: Velax on July 18, 2011, 07:22:34 AMYou have them burn it before delivering it to you? That's a bit odd. "Here, my lord, this pile of ashes came for you today."
He he he... ;D That's a pretty cool visual... The scribe announcing correspondence from Hammarsett as he dumps the ashes into the ash bucket by the fireplace:
"Another letter from Hammarsett, m'Lord." *dump*
Quote from: Perth on July 18, 2011, 07:36:18 AMThat isn't to say however, that Eston's solidarity isn't with the North. Eston wants the CE damaged more than anything, and while Kerwin definitely tried to dissuade another war with Coria, and won't participate in it, he also saw that something had to happen to change the course of the war, because the path the North was on wasn't going anywhere unless Darka would attack Talerium... and they wouldn't.
Unfortunately, Eston chose a course in the war that greatly increased the likelihood of CE winning. And you can't entirely blame Darka for stalling the war. Eston *knew* that Darka wouldn't attack Talerium, yet still chose to sign a treaty with Coria that specifically excluded any other course. You had to know that this would piss off everyone.
Eston chooses not to attack Coria. Darka chooses not to attack Talerium. The southeast choose not to attack Tara. The north do little beyond marching south, looting and marching north. I may not be in any of the CA realms anymore, but my gold would be on them to win not because of any particular realm fighting against them, but the decisions of all the realms fighting them. Not saying that the north should go in and colonize Eaglin or that it'd be wise for Carelia's one functioning mini-army to cut through Tara's border, but the culmination of these decisions means CE and CE's allies arn't suffering sustained damage while the likes of Carelia are getting a pounding.
I agree with Perth. Only three realms have suffered any real harm so far, and of them I'd accuse Eston and Coria of whining if they thought they had it even close to as bad as Carelia. The north marches, but does the north think the central alliance trembles with fear when they do? Some peasants and troops killed, gold robbed, food burned and then they have a long trip back to refit and won't be seen again for a couple of weeks at least. A few courtiers and its like they've never been. CE only shares a direct border with Carelia (until Cantril is taken) and they're trashing Carelia. Their allies are virtually untouched despite minor raids. Frankly, I'm shocked. If the north can march such massive armies to hear them proudly talk about it, why can't they colonize Tucha or Eaglin? Lack of nobles? Between the lot of them, they could each spare a couple. Enough to take a city and a couple of regions. Their job? Hold it. Deny the CA the incomes and food, and add it to your side for lasting damage. How long has this war been going on and I don't think this has been so much as attempted. Suville and Caergoth are similar stories. Direct attacks on Tara aside, neither have sent much in the way of help to Carelia so rather than taking regions from CE, this war has actually given them region(s).
If I didn't know better, I'd name this some devious plot by CE nobles to expand and reinforce their power. Not out of the question, as any who know CE properly will agree. Certainly if others planned or started this war, they'd have made plans to actually win it?
I'm not speachless. Just bewildered at the lack of intent by CE's enemies to actually take away CE's advantages.
Finton.
Another explanation could be that the CE group is actually more competent than some of their enemies would like to give them credit for.
QuoteI've never heard any conditions on "you can use these regions, but not these".
Unless your Character is called Kerwin, Sordnaz or Kostaja ...then you wouldn't have necessarily heard it. Saying that, I'm really surprised you haven't, as this was made crystal clear throughout the agreement. I didn't want the North eating up the small amount of food Coria manages to produce, not to mention the "accidental" battles which occured at least twice when either BoM or Darka attacked Corian troops within Corian territory when we were supposed to be at peace. That really hacked off at least the Corian military council. It's not hard to order your troops to not be aggressive when in neutral lands.
In regards to the Tara thing, you started marching through without even mentioning it to any Corian. Talk about taking our neutrality for granted. Our allies respected the peace we made with the North, didn't use our lands and didn't attack our nobles. The North was a shambles when it came to upholding their part of the agreement. Hammard troops entered Corian lands on no less than five occasions when they were unwelcome, and Darka and BoM actually
attacked Corian nobles when they were inside Coria!
As we are trying to be an honourable realm, I didn't want to break the peace, so I'm glad the North did, because it just confirmed that you guys couldn't be trusted which is what Saeculo always suspected. (When I refer to the North, I make an exception with Eston). Let's be fair though, we weren't a match made in heaven and Coria has always been rooting for the Empire and her allies.
There have been hiccups within the Central Alliance, but the difference is: Coria, Talerium, Tara and CE actually like one another, we're friends because that's been the traditional history of our realms, or because we were originally CE colonies. If one leader is pessimistic the others 'cheer' them up and try and aid the situation and one another, both militarily and morally.
The Northern and Southern realms have never had the kind of relationship the CA enjoys. The CA is used to fighting Wars with one another, our nobles like one another and importantly our leaders know one another well and have no resentment.
In comparison, the North have a common enemy which has brought them together, which is not the same as fighting for one another as friends. Defenders always have more reason to keep up the fight than those attacking, especially when things start going badly.
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 05:36:40 PMUnless your Character is called Kerwin, Sordnaz or Kostaja ...then you wouldn't have necessarily heard it. Saying that, I'm really surprised you haven't, as this was made crystal clear throughout the agreement. I didn't want the North eating up the small amount of food Coria manages to produce, not to mention the "accidental" battles which occured at least twice when either BoM or Darka attacked Corian troops within Corian territory when we were supposed to be at peace. That really hacked off at least the Corian military council. It's not hard to order your troops to not be aggressive when in neutral lands.
Hard to order? Not at all. And it was ordered. Doesn't mean everyone follows orders. I always wondered, though, why the peace treaty wasn't officially declared, and everything was left at neutral. That's just begging for incidents.
Anyway, what was the part of the agreement that was supposed to declare certain lands off limits?
QuoteIn regards to the Tara thing, you started marching through without even mentioning it to any Corian. Talk about taking our neutrality for granted. Our allies respected the peace we made with the North, didn't use our lands and didn't attack our nobles. The North was a shambles when it came to upholding their part of the agreement. Hammard troops entered Corian lands on no less than five occasions when they were unwelcome, and Darka and BoM actually attacked Corian nobles when they were inside Coria!
As we are trying to be an honourable realm, I didn't want to break the peace, so I'm glad the North did, because it just confirmed that you guys couldn't be trusted which is what Saeculo always suspected. (When I refer to the North, I make an exception with Eston). Let's be fair though, we weren't a match made in heaven and Coria has always been rooting for the Empire and her allies.
I really have no idea what the Hammarpeople were doing. If they violated the agreement on their part, you'll have to get an explanation from them. All I know is what Darka did. From our point of view, we didn't break the agreement. (If you discount the two accidental battles.) From what I know of the agreement, once Tara entered Eston lands, that constitutes Tara attacking, and opened up Corian lands for attacks on Tara. The agreement did not require any notification. We always assumed that if Coria ever saw our armies, they'd just tell CE/Tara we were coming anyway. So why give them any more warning?
QuoteThe Northern and Southern realms have never had the kind of relationship the CA enjoys. The CA is used to fighting Wars with one another, our nobles like one another and importantly our leaders know one another well and have no resentment.
That is definitely a huge advantage the CE bloc has, a long history of working together. That and they don't need a coalition to be able to put together a huge army. CE and Tara individually can field armies that the northern/southern realms have to put together multiple realms to match.
Quote from: Indirik on July 18, 2011, 02:37:56 PM
Unfortunately, Eston chose a course in the war that greatly increased the likelihood of CE winning. And you can't entirely blame Darka for stalling the war. Eston *knew* that Darka wouldn't attack Talerium, yet still chose to sign a treaty with Coria that specifically excluded any other course. You had to know that this would piss off everyone.
Ugh. Not this again. How all the Darkans somehow think that Darka refusing to attack Talerium so that their own realm won't come under any fire but at the same time accusing Eston of being weak or stupid for doing the exact same thing is really annoying.
The worst part is that Darka acts like walking through Coria is somehow the easiest and quickest way to hurt the CE, when by doing so we have walk through three realms and around a huge pile of mountains. While if Darka would attack ONE (contested) Talerium region we would on the doorstep of Eaglin, putting pressure on the city, Darka with Eston help could probably sack the city, and then both CE and Tara troops would be tied up in northern CE, fighting on CE soil, and giving direct relief to Carelia. Attacking Coria and northern Tara does absolutely none of these things.
Quote from: Carna on July 18, 2011, 03:39:48 PM
If the north can march such massive armies to hear them proudly talk about it, why can't they colonize Tucha or Eaglin? Lack of nobles? Between the lot of them, they could each spare a couple. Enough to take a city and a couple of regions. Their job? Hold it. Deny the CA the incomes and food, and add it to your side for lasting damage. How long has this war been going on and I don't think this has been so much as attempted.
Kerwin was begging for this to happen since before he signed peace with Coria. Indeed it was his primary MO in signing peace Coria. Get to the CE. Get to the CE. Darka utterly refused to attack Talerium, despite the fact that they could crush them, and thus it hasn't happened. Darka insists on marching days and weeks away to attack Coria and Tara. >:(
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 05:04:42 AM
Fair point though, from your characters point of view, those reasons you gave were valid. In the same way that I was able to respond with why my character would believe them to be unfair reasons. At the end of the day, it shows exactly why we are at War ;)
Indeed, that seems to be the crux of it.
Quote from: Indirik on July 18, 2011, 02:37:56 PM
Unfortunately, Eston chose a course in the war that greatly increased the likelihood of CE winning. And you can't entirely blame Darka for stalling the war. Eston *knew* that Darka wouldn't attack Talerium, yet still chose to sign a treaty with Coria that specifically excluded any other course. You had to know that this would piss off everyone.
This agreement was in place before the war began, and it was returned to its former condition after the war was ended for Coria. Makes sense enough to me.
Quote from: Indirik on July 18, 2011, 05:55:16 PM
Anyway, what was the part of the agreement that was supposed to declare certain lands off limits?
...
All I know is what Darka did. From our point of view, we didn't break the agreement. (If you discount the two accidental battles.) From what I know of the agreement, once Tara entered Eston lands, that constitutes Tara attacking, and opened up Corian lands for attacks on Tara. The agreement did not require any notification.
Honestly, did Darka's ruler ever actually show your realm the agreement word for word? Or your realm council for that matter? Specific regions were named that could be used to attack CE. (Essentially every single Corian region which could possibly be used to reach CE, with the exception of our capitol. The duchy of Barad Gardor however was off limits, one simple reason being it was no where near CE, and we would starve if more troops were walking through there.)
The agreement also stated that whoever broke the peace between Hammarsett and Coria would have the entirety of the northern alliance turned against them in retribution for breaking such peace. Seeing as Hammarsett attacked and declared war on Coria, I am surprised that the honorable northern realms aren't honoring their agreement to attack Hammarsett now? Of course, this probably wouldn't do much to help their war effort, but who cares about agreements when you gain more benefit by breaking them?
Quote from: Silverfire on July 18, 2011, 10:16:26 PM
The agreement also stated that whoever broke the peace between Hammarsett and Coria would have the entirety of the northern alliance turned against them in retribution for breaking such peace. Seeing as Hammarsett attacked and declared war on Coria, I am surprised that the honorable northern realms aren't honoring their agreement to attack Hammarsett now? Of course, this probably wouldn't do much to help their war effort, but who cares about agreements when you gain more benefit by breaking them?
Even
I didn't know that, and you'd think I would be aware of something so important. Regulus never mentioned that little tidbit to me. This thing really needed to be written down somewhere, as complicated as it apparently is, but as far as I know it never was (seriously, where can I get a copy?). I definitely don't know everything that's in it. I think Coria and Eston are the only realms that ever took it very seriously. The treaty was hollow from the beginning though, as it completely ignores a significant number of hard realities. It just wasn't sustainable. It probably should have never been signed in the first place, at least not by anyone other than Eston and Coria. I certainly never would have agreed to it had I been the one in charge at the time, not unless the other northern rulers were united in trying to jam it down my throat. Given each of their feelings about it though, I doubt this would have been the case.
QuoteI always wondered, though, why the peace treaty wasn't officially declared
Ask your own Rulers the answer to that one, they were the ones who refused to sign an official one.
QuoteI certainly never would have agreed to it had I been the one in charge at the time,
Why do you think the treaty wasn't officially signed in the first place? Darka and BoM wanted access to the CE, we gave them that and so they were happy (this must be before the Northerners realised those funny spikey things on the map were mountains). Regulus however wanted Corian land, which was point blank refused as the general attitude of Hammarsett at the start of the War was extremely vulture-ish. As a result of this, the Northern realms refused to sign an official peace with us, but were happy to have an unofficial one in place as long as it suited them.
So yeah, the reason an official peace wasn't signed was because of Hammarsett. I stated that an unofficial one was a bad idea, however I was then accused of war mongering and when I stated an unofficial one (not written into game mechanics) held no weight I was promised by the Northerners and by Kostaja that whoever broke the peace would have the entire might of the North to deal with, using the exact words Merlin pointed out. Surprise surprise this didn't materialise at any point when Hammarsett kept breaking the treaty.
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 11:24:42 PM
Why do you think the treaty wasn't officially signed in the first place? Darka and BoM wanted access to the CE, we gave them that and so they were happy (this must be before the Northerners realised those funny spikey things on the map were mountains). Regulus however wanted Corian land, which was point blank refused as the general attitude of Hammarsett at the start of the War was extremely vulture-ish. As a result of this, the Northern realms refused to sign an official peace with us, but were happy to have an unofficial one in place as long as it suited them.
So yeah, the reason an official peace wasn't signed was because of Hammarsett. I stated that an unofficial one was a bad idea, however I was then accused of war mongering and when I stated an unofficial one (not written into game mechanics) held no weight I was promised by the Northerners and by Kostaja that whoever broke the peace would have the entire might of the North to deal with, using the exact words Merlin pointed out. Surprise surprise this didn't materialise at any point when Hammarsett kept breaking the treaty.
Ahahahaha! 'Unofficial'? What a crock! If I had been around at the time, I would likely have focused on simply convincing Sordnaz and Kostaja that there was no point to them signing anything. Which is in fact true. There wasn't, and as you pointed out earlier, they didn't ultimately honor the terms themselves. Eston wants a treaty, Eston gets a treaty. There was no reason for any of the rest of us to go along with it, which is ultimately why it didn't last - it didn't make any sense, and was highly inconvenient to boot, especially once Tara started throwing its weight around more.
QuoteAhahahaha! 'Unofficial'? What a crock! If I had been around at the time, I would likely have focused on simply convincing Sordnaz and Kostaja that there was no point to them signing anything. Which is in fact true. There wasn't, and as you pointed out earlier, they didn't ultimately honor the terms themselves. Eston wants a treaty, Eston gets a treaty. There was no reason for any of the rest of us to go along with it, which is ultimately why it didn't last - it didn't make any sense, and was highly inconvenient to boot, especially once Tara started throwing its weight around more.
You make it sound like you were doing Coria a favour! Don't make me laugh! Coria was completely protected by Eston, on top of which you had
no access to the CE! We didn't even need to agree to the unofficial stuff because we were safe already. What we should have done, was keep the peace with Eston and then destroy Hammarsett. Darka wouldn't have been able to do diddly squat according to the terms of the official peace treaty. The only reason we agreed to the unofficial stuff...the stuff you call a crock, was to make things easier with Eston and her allies.
QuoteThere was no reason for any of the rest of us to go along with it, which is ultimately why it didn't last
The majority of the North wouldn't have been able to reach the CE or Coria without that unofficial treaty which lasted for a few months. So how do you figure that one out? You had no military access. All we wanted was a 1v1 fight against Hammarsett, but your friends wouldn't agree to it. The only reason you've been able to break the unofficial treaty is because Eston has broke the official one we had as well.
This War has always been pitched as a justified one to stop the so called big bad CE who boss everyone around. At least they are honourable, which is much more than can be said about most Northern realms, who are full of mercenaries or vikings...and Hammards, who are more annoying than any real threat. I've never seen so many nobles captured by a bunch of Militia. That was extremely amusing. 8)
Quote from: Perth on July 18, 2011, 08:57:16 PMUgh. Not this again. How all the Darkans somehow think that Darka refusing to attack Talerium so that their own realm won't come under any fire but at the same time accusing Eston of being weak or stupid for doing the exact same thing is really annoying.
Mostly because you *knew* what the situation was before you signed the treaty. You knew that Darka would not go through Talerium. Yet you signed the peace anyway. And *then* you immediately started complaining about the fact that Darka wouldn't march through Talerium. It's like sticking your hand into the fire, and then getting pissed at the fire because you got burned. You knew you'd get burned, but you did it anyway. So you only have yourself to blame for it.
Quote from: Munro on July 19, 2011, 12:04:29 AM
and Hammards, who are more annoying than any real threat. I've never seen so many nobles captured by a bunch of Militia. That was extremely amusing. 8)
Haha, that was truly hilarious. Just goes to show Coria has the best militia anywhere, or by the same logic Hammarsett has the worst nobles? I guess we'll go with the first one.
P.S> I don't know why I keep commenting on this thread from the perspective of a ruler of Coria. You're doing just fine on your own. lol
Quote from: Silverfire on July 18, 2011, 10:16:26 PMHonestly, did Darka's ruler ever actually show your realm the agreement word for word? Or your realm council for that matter? Specific regions were named that could be used to attack CE. (Essentially every single Corian region which could possibly be used to reach CE, with the exception of our capitol. The duchy of Barad Gardor however was off limits, one simple reason being it was no where near CE, and we would starve if more troops were walking through there.)
I know that there was one that Eston signed, or wanted to sign, that KK flat out refused to sign. After that, I didn't see any sign of any official agreement. I don't suppose you have a copy anywhere that you could provide?
QuoteThe agreement also stated that whoever broke the peace between Hammarsett and Coria would have the entirety of the northern alliance turned against them in retribution for breaking such peace.
OK, I'm almost 100% positive that these terms your talking about are in the version of the agreement that pretty much every northern realm refused to sign, except perhaps for Eston. I can guarantee that Darka, for one refused to sign the agreement that had those terms in it, and I fairly positive that the Barony choked on those terms as well. I think that if you're going to claim that all the northern realms agreed to this treaty, you're going to have to provide some proof.
People are getting confused. The treaty Eston signed with Coria was basically a peace treaty with the added clauses that
NO realm would pass through Eston to attack Coria and that Coria would allow no realm to attack Eston.
In the Corian-Eston treaty, the North had no access to the CE other than Talerium. There was no mention of the other Northern realms whatsoever in our original peace treaty. It was only later, when Eston's allies began to complain that we verbally confirmed that they could use specific regions which were highlighted, made crystal clear, and confirmed. These as Merlin states were pretty much Belegmon and the adjoining regions to the CE. As a clause and because Saeculo hates Hammarsett, they had no permission to enter any Corian region whatsoever.
So the unofficial agreement which was made benefited the Northern realms HUGELY. Before that agreement was made, you had an extremely limited access.
Then because we were being reasonable, it was suggested that because of the new peace signed between Eston and Coria, that the other Northern realms should follow suit. The only demands from BoM and Darka was Military access to the CE which we granted and so made them happy enough to sign peace, however because Hammarsett wanted land and I was being accused of stalling because I wouldn't grant them this, the North suggested that they would become neutral as long as they had an unofficial treaty and the situation with Hammarsett would be worked out later.
QuoteOK, I'm almost 100% positive that these terms your talking about are in the version of the agreement that pretty much every northern realm refused to sign, except perhaps for Eston. I can guarantee that Darka, for one refused to sign the agreement that had those terms in it
Again, you're getting things mixed up. There was no official agreement even discussed as Hammarsett had derailed it and the North was eager to crack on against the CE. I was not happy and pointed out what many others have here that it was less than optimal not to have something in writing or at least peace signed rather than just neutrality between our realms. It was because of this that KK himself stated "whoever broke the peace between Hammarsett and Coria would have the entirety of the northern alliance turned against them in retribution for breaking such peace".
I don't know how you want me to prove it as it was said in letters. But I'm not exactly going to lie about it am I? I'm pretty sure Perth can confirm this as can KK or Sordnaz if they use the forums. I was definitely guaranteed that the North would punish either Coria or Hammarsett should one of them sidetrack the main fight which was supposed to be the CE if either realm broke the agreement, which Hammarsett did on multiple occasions without any consequence.
Quote from: Indirik on July 19, 2011, 02:07:24 AM
OK, I'm almost 100% positive that these terms your talking about are in the version of the agreement that pretty much every northern realm refused to sign, except perhaps for Eston. I can guarantee that Darka, for one refused to sign the agreement that had those terms in it, and I fairly positive that the Barony choked on those terms as well. I think that if you're going to claim that all the northern realms agreed to this treaty, you're going to have to provide some proof.
Unless I'm mistaken, this is the treaty that Sordnaz's
entire advisory council was against signing because of that crap. We were against that one, and we were against that terrible !@#$ing joke that was the Eston-Coria peace treaty.
QuoteUnless I'm mistaken, this is the treaty that Sordnaz's entire advisory council was against signing because of that crap.
It doesn't even make sense that you guys thought that was part of a suggested peace treaty. The only reason this was suggested...by KK himself no less, was because we couldn't agree on an actual peace treaty and it was said as an assurance that we could trust the word of the North to honour it even though it wasn't put down in writing.
The reason it wasn't put down in writing was because Coria was accused of stalling, and the Northern realms didn't want to sit down and attempt to negotiate the land issue with Coria and Hammarsett in case they lost any momentum with the CE. I'm extremely glad that the CE is still going as strong as ever.
Quote from: ^ban^ on July 19, 2011, 02:48:52 AM
We were against that one, and we were against that terrible !@#$ing joke that was the Eston-Coria peace treaty.
Of course you were. Your ass isn't on the line in any way shape or form. This whole conflict is one big fun, goat riding raid for the Barony. They'll never suffer no matter the out come of it.
Quote from: Perth on July 19, 2011, 04:16:34 AM
Of course you were. Your ass isn't on the line in any way shape or form. This whole conflict is one big fun, goat riding raid for the Barony. They'll never suffer no matter the out come of it.
+1
I think this shows 100% the difference between Darka and BoM, in comparison with Eston and Coria in this conflict. Hammarsett and MI are slightly different because each had a clear choice of whether the war may or may not be fought on their borders.
Quote from: Munro on July 19, 2011, 12:04:29 AM
The majority of the North wouldn't have been able to reach the CE or Coria without that unofficial treaty which lasted for a few months. So how do you figure that one out? You had no military access. All we wanted was a 1v1 fight against Hammarsett, but your friends wouldn't agree to it. The only reason you've been able to break the unofficial treaty is because Eston has broke the official one we had as well.
How do you figure? If they hadn't agreed to anything, as they should have done IMO, they could have marched through Coria anytime they damn well pleased, and you know you wouldn't have been able to stop them. It's not like you were before. You make it sound like the North needed your permission. That they most emphatically did not, seeing as they had already demonstrated repeatedly that Coria wasn't much more than CE's doormat. The agreement, official or unofficial, never really benefited anyone but Eston and Coria. The North did do you a favor, by letting you largely get away with that. Just think - all this time, your regions haven't been continually burned to the ground, you've had time to rebuild from when we did burn your regions to the ground, but all you've been able to do is complain loudly and shrilly about it whenever a Northern army does cross your territory, even when they're playing by your little rules. Get real! It could have been ten times worse. If Saeculo hadn't been such an arrogant bastard about the agreement it might have lasted longer, but I think almost everyone got tired of him constantly using it to browbeat people with. Frankly, we just stopped taking him seriously. It's like you went out of your way to rub it in everyone's face that you could. Surprise! We said 'screw this, we don't have to take this anymore'. That's when we pretty much started doing whatever we pleased.
Quote from: Geronus on July 19, 2011, 05:08:31 AM
That's when we pretty much started doing whatever we pleased.
Lets see:
1. Ignoring agreements
2. Interfering in and trying to influence diplomatic discussions of other realms
3. And doing whatever you want to do regardless of what anyone else wants.
Yep, that certainly seems like exactly the complaints against CE as the reason for the current war. Cheers! We've come full circle!
Quote from: Silverfire on July 19, 2011, 05:18:12 AM
Lets see:
1. Ignoring agreements
2. Interfering in and trying to influence diplomatic discussions of other realms
3. And doing whatever you want to do regardless of what anyone else wants.
Yep, that certainly seems like exactly the complaints against CE as the reason for the current war. Cheers! We've come full circle!
LOL.
Quote from: Munro on July 18, 2011, 05:36:40 PMand Darka and BoM actually attacked Corian nobles when they were inside Coria!
Oh, come now!
In the first instance, Jens was returning from killing Taran nobles and was ambushed by the Taran Spock of Vulcan IN CORIAN LANDS. After dispatching him, Jens and his men merely wanted to go inside the palisade and slake their thirst at the local pub and were SET UPON by the Corian Guard!
Jens wasn't there for the second incident, but according to what he heard, the Darkan and Makarian troops were sitting peacefully in their camps, singing campfire songs and cleaning their weapons, when Corian troops raced out of the darkness and FOR NO REASON threw themselves on our swords, forcing our troops to clean their weapons A SECOND TIME!
You're cheesed off? You're lucky we haven't razed your capitol yet.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 19, 2011, 05:18:12 AM
Lets see:
1. Ignoring agreements
2. Interfering in and trying to influence diplomatic discussions of other realms
3. And doing whatever you want to do regardless of what anyone else wants.
Yep, that certainly seems like exactly the complaints against CE as the reason for the current war. Cheers! We've come full circle!
I've never really bought this argument the CA keeps trying to make. It's a false equivalence.
Quote from: Geronus on July 19, 2011, 05:45:09 AM
I've never really bought this argument the CA keeps trying to make. It's a false equivalence.
What
exactly is the difference?
Quote from: Silverfire on July 19, 2011, 05:46:59 AM
What exactly is the difference?
While it is a funny parallel, I think real difference is that Darka and the Barony aren't exactly aware they're doing it. They're like a belligerent drunk that just slogs around and does what they please. The Cagilan Empire is fully aware of what they do, and it's their MO.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 19, 2011, 05:46:59 AMWhat exactly is the difference?
Well, your itemized list is hardly anything that I've claimed. But still, I do see differences.
1) I'm not convinced that the "agreement" that you think you had is one that you really had. And I'm not convinced that, at least in the case of Darka, that the agreement was violated at all, even if it did exist. Darka did not enter the east side of Coria until *after* Tara had already entered Eston lands on a looting run. Tara taking an aggressive role in the conflict would have voided the restrictions against attacking Tara in the draft of the agreement that I remember. But so far as I can remember, that agreement was never official anyway, and could probably have been considered voided by Coria marching south to help Tara battle against Caergoth/Suville/whoever-it-was.
2) Darka was involved in the war, sending troops, and fighting the war. Asking for terms to be included in the agreement to end the war can hardly be considered interfering. But yeah, I imagine that various realms try to influence others all the time. I mean, that's what politics is, isn't it? Influencing other peoples decisions?
3) Darka has done quite a lot to try and work with other realms of the north to bring together a consensus agreement. It wasn't until after that completely failed that we decided to just give up on everyone else and just start smashing things. But hey, smashing things is fun, so we all win in the end anyway.
In the end, it all works out. The entire continent is at war. And that's much better than all the sitting around, complaining that everyone was doing before.
So...who's winning anyway? Last I took notice, CE was still the dominant power on AT.
Yeah, I doubt that's going to change any time soon.
Quote from: Artemesia on July 27, 2011, 10:25:47 PM
So...who's winning anyway? Last I took notice, CE was still the dominant power on AT.
I would say CE is "winning" but "victory" is still very very far away. The only reason I would say that is because CE has made the most progress in the war, while the others....haven't.
It is a fun World War though, since every realm is involved, except those who have recently left it.
It could be said that CE's allies are taking the hits, but not even Coria is being hurt badly enough to turn against CE. What hope then is there for Talerium or, even less likely, Tara to turn on them? Carelia's suffering, Suville's pulled out of the war (for now) and for all the efforts of the north, it seems more to avoid TMP than to make any strategic gains in the war. If things continue the way they are, or grow worse, for the southeast then it won't be too long before they're cowed and CE marches north in force.
At this point, its a question of whether the colony will be in Icegate or Azzal. I'd presume the matter's already under quiet discussion.
Finton.
Quote from: Carna on July 28, 2011, 01:54:02 AM
At this point, its a question of whether the colony will be in Icegate or Azzal. I'd presume the matter's already under quiet discussion.
Finton.
This sounds so "singular". I mean cmon, there are still 23 cities not underneath the banner of the CE alliance, I'm sure that can accommodate more than one colony. ;)
jk?
Quote from: Silverfire on July 28, 2011, 04:08:30 AM
This sounds so "singular". I mean cmon, there are still 23 cities not underneath the banner of the CE alliance, I'm sure that can accommodate more than one colony. ;)
jk?
My only solace in regard to this is that the player count in in decline....
Which is... also depressing...
Quote from: Perth on July 28, 2011, 06:46:16 AM
My only solace in regard to this is that the player count in in decline....
Which is... also depressing...
Agreed. I think the Empire itself is probably the only realm on the continent that could even think about a colony right now, and it probably won't be very big. The lack of players suggests to me that this war isn't going to have a particularly satisfying outcome for anyone, not even the victors. I mean, it's always good to win, but I find it very unlikely that any realm involved will actually end up being destroyed, except perhaps Hammarsett because it is the only realm small enough for that to realistically happen to it.
Quote from: Geronus on July 28, 2011, 05:58:30 PM
Agreed. I think the Empire itself is probably the only realm on the continent that could even think about a colony right now, and it probably won't be very big. The lack of players suggests to me that this war isn't going to have a particularly satisfying outcome for anyone, not even the victors. I mean, it's always good to win, but I find it very unlikely that any realm involved will actually end up being destroyed, except perhaps Hammarsett because it is the only realm small enough for that to realistically happen to it.
To be fair, Coria could also be destroyed, not just Hammarsett. Granted, I doubt either of us could conceivably control all of the others territory with our current lack of nobles but that's just how it is.
The interesting thing is if the estate changes are completed before the war ends, that will open up a lot of new possibilities as you wouldn't need any knights in a realm at all potentially.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 28, 2011, 10:40:11 PM
To be fair, Coria could also be destroyed, not just Hammarsett. Granted, I doubt either of us could conceivably control all of the others territory with our current lack of nobles but that's just how it is.
The interesting thing is if the estate changes are completed before the war ends, that will open up a lot of new possibilities as you wouldn't need any knights in a realm at all potentially.
You wouldn't have any income either.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 28, 2011, 10:40:11 PMThe interesting thing is if the estate changes are completed before the war ends, that will open up a lot of new possibilities as you wouldn't need any knights in a realm at all potentially.
I don't know that I'd go *that* far. If you don't have knights, your region won't have much income. The new estate code will not be a return to the 2005/6 era, where you could control as many regions as you could defend.
Quote from: Silverfire on July 28, 2011, 10:40:11 PM
To be fair, Coria could also be destroyed, not just Hammarsett. Granted, I doubt either of us could conceivably control all of the others territory with our current lack of nobles but that's just how it is.
The interesting thing is if the estate changes are completed before the war ends, that will open up a lot of new possibilities as you wouldn't need any knights in a realm at all potentially.
Possibly, that would be a pretty tall order though. With Hammarsett all you have to do is take Shanandoah. Game over. Coria has two cities, and it would take a very concerted effort to loot Barad Falas rogue even if we do get our hands on Barad Gardor. The only other option I could see would be for Eston to actually run a TO there, but I don't think they will agree do that unless something occurs to drastically change their outlook. Hammarsett doesn't have enough nobles to get into a position to TO Barad Falas.
Quote from: Indirik on July 28, 2011, 11:04:31 PM
I don't know that I'd go *that* far. If you don't have knights, your region won't have much income. The new estate code will not be a return to the 2005/6 era, where you could control as many regions as you could defend.
A pity.
Actually, my preferred scenario would be the current system for *production*, and the 2005/2006 system for every other region stat. So that you *may* hold as many regions as you can defend, but if you don't have anyone to watch over them they won't be producing much to make anyone disproportionately rich.
AFAIK that's more or less the set-up of the new system. You'll be able to hold more lands with fewer nobles, but unless you have 1-2 knights in your region, your production will be limited.
All you need in the new system will be a Lord for the region. But you will need a lord, unlike (at one point) when even lords weren't needed.
If you don't have the number of knights the game thinks you need, then your tax collection will be inefficient and you will get less gold. Your stats will not be otherwise hurt.
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 29, 2011, 05:18:21 AM
All you need in the new system will be a Lord for the region. But you will need a lord, unlike (at one point) when even lords weren't needed.
If you don't have the number of knights the game thinks you need, then your tax collection will be inefficient and you will get less gold. Your stats will not be otherwise hurt.
Cool.
Will this control be held on production levels, on tolerable tax limits, or as an extra tax reduction factor (like the absence of a lord at tax collection)?. I would personally favor the third.
Extra tax reduction factor, I believe, though we'll see how the coding works out.
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 29, 2011, 05:35:50 AM
Extra tax reduction factor, I believe, though we'll see how the coding works out.
I approve of these changes. 8)
Quote from: egamma on July 28, 2011, 11:02:21 PM
You wouldn't have any income either.
We would have an income. Who cares if every region you control is at 60-70% production due to no estate coverage? If you have 142% more regions than you would otherwise, you break even, and more than that you make a profit.
Not to mention you deny the lands to your opponents.
Think about this, as Duke of a city, would I rather have 4 knights, and ensure 100% production in my region, or have my duchy larger by 4 more regions, as each of those potential knights takes over a region and then pays me a portion of their taxes from their regions. Some will choose one way, others will choose another, but I can't wait for the changes.
Any chance they'll be done before 2012?
Quote from: Silverfire on July 29, 2011, 10:30:02 AM
Any chance they'll be done before 2012?
A chance, yes. More than that, it's hard to say. Tom's got a nicely fleshed out idea that should be pretty simple, but "should" and "is" are two words everyone knows don't coexist very often.
I would just like to say I very much like this thread, as it gives me a good idea on what's happening on an island I don't have a character on. It's very entertaining. :)
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 29, 2011, 05:18:21 AM
All you need in the new system will be a Lord for the region. But you will need a lord, unlike (at one point) when even lords weren't needed.
If you don't have the number of knights the game thinks you need, then your tax collection will be inefficient and you will get less gold. Your stats will not be otherwise hurt.
HALLELUJAH :)
The Royal Army of Darka has a new Marshal! Akagi Kuriga, Knight of Azzal, to be specific. I will be in command from here on out.
Talerium and Eston pretty much hate each other with a new burning passion now, as well. ;D
Amusing how Aldarion is spinning infiltrator attacks.
Think Athena can manage an execution a week? They seem to make for better entertainment than tournaments (",)
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 29, 2011, 05:35:50 AM
Extra tax reduction factor, I believe, though we'll see how the coding works out.
Not only reduction but also a bonus I hope? That's the best thing of the estate system, crazy high taxes if you have enough knights.
Quote from: Lorgan on August 20, 2011, 10:15:23 PM
Not only reduction but also a bonus I hope? That's the best thing of the estate system, crazy high taxes if you have enough knights.
Yes, but with diminishing returns.
Quote from: Geronus on August 20, 2011, 03:58:30 PM
Amusing how Aldarion is spinning infiltrator attacks.
Aldarion is the definition of a snake in the grass. He's entirely predictable and always spews the same garbage no matter the issue at hand. It's a bit tiring, honestly.
However, the attacks have certainly given a small boost of excitement to what was becoming quite a boring war of stalemate (not that the stalemate part has changed at all :P )
Quote from: Carna on August 20, 2011, 04:59:44 PM
Think Athena can manage an execution a week? They seem to make for better entertainment than tournaments (",)
We can only hope ;)
Well that's the last time I use Battlemaster on my phone! I've just paused my character by accident. How long is it before I can unpause again?
Quote from: Munro on August 29, 2011, 11:54:32 AM
Well that's the last time I use Battlemaster on my phone! I've just paused my character by accident. How long is it before I can unpause again?
I just saw that notification... was wondering what was going on.
Don't you get a warning when you hit the Pause link? I was pretty sure there was a confirmation screen for that.
Sometimes a phone will freeze up a little and thus click on a link that you were trying to avoid...
Quote from: Munro on August 29, 2011, 11:54:32 AM
Well that's the last time I use Battlemaster on my phone! I've just paused my character by accident. How long is it before I can unpause again?
I too was wondering about that. It's bad to lose good friends but worse to lose good enemies ;)
Quote from: Carna on July 28, 2011, 01:54:02 AM
It could be said that CE's allies are taking the hits, but not even Coria is being hurt badly enough to turn against CE. What hope then is there for Talerium or, even less likely, Tara to turn on them? Carelia's suffering, Suville's pulled out of the war (for now) and for all the efforts of the north, it seems more to avoid TMP than to make any strategic gains in the war. If things continue the way they are, or grow worse, for the southeast then it won't be too long before they're cowed and CE marches north in force.
At this point, its a question of whether the colony will be in Icegate or Azzal. I'd presume the matter's already under quiet discussion.
Finton.
Do you reckon Carna's an RL soothsayer? ;-)
Quote from: Revan on October 10, 2011, 12:33:58 AM
Do you reckon Carna's an RL soothsayer? ;-)
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Quote from: Carna on October 10, 2011, 04:36:54 AM
I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
Naw, he's just hiding my true soothsaying ability...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 10, 2011, 05:47:19 PM
Naw, he's just hiding my true soothsaying ability...
That I'd believe. Balance is only a small part of why the Silverfire family always land on their feet :o
I like how Suville fails to take a city, then vents their frustration the next day by sallying a lone 72 man SF troop into the walls. Classic "Continue on to..." travel fail.
I like the fact that they attacked BEFORE declaring war. ::)
Quote from: Alesius on October 14, 2011, 07:19:23 PM
I like the fact that they attacked BEFORE declaring war. ::)
Welcome to Atamara ;D
Quote from: Alesius on October 14, 2011, 07:19:23 PM
I like the fact that they attacked BEFORE declaring war. ::)
What is this "war declaration" of which you speak? Battles first, Politics much later down the line...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 16, 2011, 05:00:54 AM
What is this "war declaration" of which you speak? Battles first, Politics much later down the line...
Really? i always considered Atamara to be "6 years of politics with the occasional battle if we can get a big enough gangbang"
granted, this current war is absolutely brilliant. but it may be the only great war in the history of the island (at least in "modern times").
I've actually come to despise virtually everything about Atamara, despite having a very well established character there. Even the current war is getting stale and uninteresting.
Atamara is the island where change, if it comes at all, is incremental at best. I think the single most exciting thing that's happened in the three years I've had a character there has been the destruction of Norland. And what else has happened in that time? Nothing at all of consequence really. I guess the footnote named Falasan finally bit the dust... Hammarsett got founded and replaced Falasan as the continental footnote... Hmmmmm. Yeah, that's really it. In three. Entire. YEARS. If I tried to sum up everything that's happened on the other islands I play on during that time I'd have trouble figuring out where to begin. With Atamara it's coming up with anything to say at all that's difficult.
I'm sure plenty of people would argue that the current war should count as something exciting. I'd agree if it wasn't so damned boring in its own right. We've been fighting for what, seven-eight months now? AND WHAT THE HELL HAS CHANGED? A few regions have changed hands or gone rogue, but I could probably count those on my fingers. In eight MONTHS of fighting. This, to me, is the essence of Atamara. Virtual stasis in all things is the order of the day. Nothing truly interesting ever happens on this forsaken mausoleum of an island.
</rant> 8)
Quote from: Geronus on October 16, 2011, 03:45:51 PM
I've actually come to despise virtually everything about Atamara, despite having a very well established character there. Even the current war is getting stale and uninteresting.
Atamara is the island where change, if it comes at all, is incremental at best. I think the single most exciting thing that's happened in the three years I've had a character there has been the destruction of Norland. And what else has happened in that time? Nothing at all of consequence really. I guess the footnote named Falasan finally bit the dust... Hammarsett got founded and replaced Falasan as the continental footnote... Hmmmmm. Yeah, that's really it. In three. Entire. YEARS. If I tried to sum up everything that's happened on the other islands I play on during that time I'd have trouble figuring out where to begin. With Atamara it's coming up with anything to say at all that's difficult.
I'm sure plenty of people would argue that the current war should count as something exciting. I'd agree if it wasn't so damned boring in its own right. We've been fighting for what, seven-eight months now? AND WHAT THE HELL HAS CHANGED? A few regions have changed hands or gone rogue, but I could probably count those on my fingers. In eight MONTHS of fighting. This, to me, is the essence of Atamara. Virtual stasis in all things is the order of the day. Nothing truly interesting ever happens on this forsaken mausoleum of an island.
</rant> 8)
Hey, this war may be boring, but at least Atamara managed to conduct a relatively even war. I mean when was the last we had a war on Atamara that wasn't a huge like 5 vs 1 gangbang? ::)
Quote from: Perth on October 16, 2011, 05:03:40 PM
Hey, this war may be boring, but at least Atamara managed to conduct a relatively even war. I mean when was the last we had a war on Atamara that wasn't a huge like 5 vs 1 gangbang? ::)
Oh yeah, and then there's this. How could I forget this most charming of Atamara's many inane qualities? And while the current war may be a departure from the staggering banality that normally pervades the island, it's current trajectory points at us all ending up right where we started. Of course it wouldn't be Atamara otherwise, would it?
Quote from: Revan on March 02, 2011, 01:16:18 PM
Prediction: Carelia to be double-crossed by Caergoth and Suville when the war either drags on too long or Carelia starts losing. Would place money on it.
Oh by the way: You're looking pretty smart right now. ;D
Edit: Also richer, if you did in fact place money on it.
Quote from: Geronus on October 16, 2011, 06:43:19 PM
Oh by the way: You're looking pretty smart right now. ;D
Edit: Also richer, if you did in fact place money on it.
Heh.
Quote from: Perth on October 16, 2011, 05:03:40 PM
Hey, this war may be boring, but at least Atamara managed to conduct a relatively even war. I mean when was the last we had a war on Atamara that wasn't a huge like 5 vs 1 gangbang? ::)
Well we could avoid all of that if all of you other realms just decided to let CE do whatever it wanted and stopped trying to act like it isn't the supreme power of the continent. It needs to get its 5v1 gangbang in once every year or so. After all of the realms fighting CE realize they just want to have fun every once in a while and the chances of being the target of the gangbang aren't that high in each individual sense, then we'll go back to those good times.
;)
(satire....)
I'd argue, but I recently paused one of my AT characters. Something that will come out of this war is a vastly reduced Carelia. I expect Suville will manage to take Wayburg (sorry Roderian) and with MS ruling Carelia I don't expect CE to stop fighting for terms any less than what was given to Falasan. And we know how that turned out. So there is a result.
I'm interested to see what will happen when the new estate system hits stable. A lot of the reasons/excuses for not taking lands off of other realms has predominantly been focused on insufficient nobility to hold the territory in question. Will new realms pop up, or previously small one's like Coria taking on more lands?
My guess has been and is that CE will try start a new realm in Strombran. They have to have a plan for how they want this to end and that seems a reasonable start to it. Suville is expanding (Abington?) and there's a new Theocracy in town down between Tara and Caergoth. Eston is doing a fair job of doing damage to Talerium, though its certainly no rollover since Darka continues to trek a mad distance to fight a day or two. Sordnaz is 86 and you have to wonder how long can he actually live? That question will answer the question of other fairly ancient members of the Barony, so its not unlikely that change will happen there too. Dictators and monarchs being replaced generally see some change to foreign policy, after all.
Atamara is the definition of a "stable" continent. Things haven't really changed the last few years, but there have been small changes. Comparible to other continents? Hah. But that's because other continents have seen power shifts far more regularly. CE's bloc remains diligent and while I've a character on the other side now, I can't and won't complain that things haven't changed. Most people play in their character's best interests and CE won't let themselves be torn apart just to make it more fun for others. They're not short nobles, lands, allies or military ability. They don't want change and they're right not to. They're on the top of the world (well, island) and if they can stay there, that's because they're doing what they should be doing.
Me? I think that the rulers of Atamara secretly support CE's continued rulership of the continent. If they truly wanted rid of CE, I believe it could be done. But Suville stepped out of the war. Caergoth created a new realm and hasn't been up to much in the way of fighting (though have made far more effort than Suville ever did while they were involved). Eston won't attack Coria (or vice versa) and Darka won't attack Talerium (or vice versa). I haven't paid too much attention to the lakeside war, so I can't say that the northern realms up there are failing to push, but what do they hope to do, march through the realm that was specifically built to provide a buffer to CE? If you think about it, Coria's nothing but a long chokepoint that any northern army will have to fight their way through.
But yeah, heading towards a rant and I've got stuff to do IRL. Is Atamara dead? Nah. Is Atamara likely to change much in the coming year? Less than other continents and the central powers that be are unlikely to be weakened or destroyed.
My take on the whole thing. Not quite a rant, but not a spiel either. Ah well.
Finn.
P.S. Okay, just saw the length. Maybe a rant.
Quote from: Carna on October 19, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
Carna's rant...
A fairly good assessment, I believe.
Unfortunately, despite the Allies best efforts the outcome is looking less and less bright. Indeed, CE's hold over the island may end up even stronger than it was. At this point I wouldn't be surprised to see new CE colony's in both the North and the South as a result of the this.
With the south now an utter and ineffectual mess, I am finding myself holding onto little hope at this point.
I just keep wondering what realms like Darka and Suville think will happen if this war is lost. Yeah, they're not primary targets right now. But if this war falls apart, then there's not going to be any way to stop the CE from dealing with them later at their leisure.
Suville in particular, there's plenty of people there who remember what happened when Abington was in a much, much, much better position and got hammered to pieces. Darka may think (with some reason) that their gold stores are enough that no one can actually touch them.
Quote from: Bedwyr on October 19, 2011, 08:14:28 PM
Suville in particular, there's plenty of people there who remember what happened when Abington was in a much, much, much better position and got hammered to pieces. Darka may think (with some reason) that their gold stores are enough that no one can actually touch them.
I have no idea what Suville expects and to be honest i don't care but after this war ends ,whatever the outcome i would believe many realms expect to be the next target "gang banned" and especially Darka.
I believe Darka already escaped that situation so far because it worked for the right side,now that this has changed i wouldn't believe there is a single Darkan that doesn't see a war on it's doorstep coming.
Quote from: Misericordia on October 19, 2011, 08:56:25 PM
I have no idea what Suville expects and to be honest i don't care but after this war ends ,whatever the outcome i would believe many realms expect to be the next target "gang banned" and especially Darka.
I believe Darka already escaped that situation so far because it worked for the right side,now that this has changed i wouldn't believe there is a single Darkan that doesn't see a war on it's doorstep coming.
And yet our King still can't see that we need to take out Talerium...
And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria! :P
If CE/Tara directly attacks Darka, then the Talerium border may be the only thing that lets Darka hold them off. Assuming Talerium honors the border as strongly as Darka did.
But seriously, it is *so* annoying having to march all the way over to Hammsrsett lands to fight someone.
And BTW: Hello Tucha!
Quote from: Indirik on October 19, 2011, 09:31:34 PM
And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria! :P
If CE/Tara directly attacks Darka, then the Talerium border may be the only thing that lets Darka hold them off. Assuming Talerium honors the border as strongly as Darka did.
Even if Talerium did, which I think highly unlikely...So what? If this war falls apart, then the CE-bloc can roll over Talerium easily enough if they get antsy. The south will be broken, the north will at best be highly limited, and there won't be anyone with enough strength to hold them off (leaving aside Darka's legendary gold reserves, because I don't have the faintest idea 1. how big they are and 2. how that much gold will change things).
Darka can't rely on anyone. Of course no one is whining about it because this is what happens when you are a mercenary which means no real friends.
Darka however always had a code of honor with Talerium and a long friendship with Eston (in the past mostly,much has changed since then). Whether Darka likes Talerium or not it never broke it's alliance with it and viceversa. Sometimes in such honor codes the trust is highly more valuable than an alliance.
No one says Talerium will cover Darka's butt by defending it but they have the guts for example to not let anyone use their lands to attack Darka.As Darka did in this war of course and never violated that agreement.
I would like to see Cagilan either !@#$ting on Talerium's demand for example to enter Darka or travel through those forsaken mountains as Darka did so far to reach them.
Quote from: Bedwyr on October 19, 2011, 09:36:00 PMEven if Talerium did, which I think highly unlikely...So what? If this war falls apart, then the CE-bloc can roll over Talerium easily enough if they get antsy.
CE could indeed roll over Talerium if they wanted to, just as Darka could have crushed Talerium if it had wanted to. If we had, then this war may have taken a very different course. Or it could have gone much worse for the north. Who knows? The point is, that Darka took as much, or more, flak over the border agreement with Talerium as Eston did for their treaties with Coria. I would hope that would mean something to Talerium. And if CE has to attack Talerium to get to Darka, then at least they will have lost one steadfast ally.
QuoteThe south will be broken, the north will at best be highly limited, and there won't be anyone with enough strength to hold them off
You're probably right.
Quote from: Carna on October 19, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
Me? I think that the rulers of Atamara secretly support CE's continued rulership of the continent. Eston won't attack Coria (or vice versa) and Darka won't attack Talerium (or vice versa). I haven't paid too much attention to the lakeside war, so I can't say that the northern realms up there are failing to push, but what do they hope to do, march through the realm that was specifically built to provide a buffer to CE? If you think about it, Coria's nothing but a long chokepoint that any northern army will have to fight their way through.
Yes! The plan is working...No one realizes the truth. Yes, the rulers of Atamara have a secret plan, however it is really to support Coria's continued rulership of the continent. The whole idea was to make it look like we are simply a buffer realm, but really every ruler knows each government member of Coria is just sitting on 100,000 gold pieces waiting for the fun to really start...
Quote from: Indirik on October 19, 2011, 09:31:34 PM
And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria! :P
If CE/Tara directly attacks Darka, then the Talerium border may be the only thing that lets Darka hold them off. Assuming Talerium honors the border as strongly as Darka did.
But seriously, it is *so* annoying having to march all the way over to Hammsrsett lands to fight someone.
And BTW: Hello Tucha!
I proposed marching through Belegmon and either attacking Barad Falas or looting through the rurals and mountains back to Menedor. That was shot down.
Quote from: egamma on October 19, 2011, 09:11:29 PM
And yet our King still can't see that we need to take out Talerium...
So take out your King...
Quote from: Geronus on October 16, 2011, 06:43:19 PM
Oh by the way: You're looking pretty smart right now. ;D
Edit: Also richer, if you did in fact place money on it.
OH. I guess I'm the soothsayer! Seriously though, never trust a Sugothian ;D
As for the rest of the chatter, I think it's hilarious that people still reference Magna Serpænsism. I can't believe Caergoth's crusade helped turn it into the bogeyman of the entire continent - and now the Way of the Hammer is the one faith making all the running up the eastern side of Atamara and giving birth to quaint little theocracies but no-one is stomping them into the floor -_- It's beyond parody really. Mostly everyone and everything that made Magna Serpænsism what it was is dead. The founder even got killed in the war with Cagil. All that's left is a hollowed out shell that has no bearing on anything whatsoever.
Also, what's this about Abington being hammered to pieces? Abington in her prime was more than a match for anything that came at her. I don't know what the hell was going on in the weeks immediately prior to her collapse, but if Abington could turf out seven realms trying to found Kybcyell in Wayburg, she could have weathered the storm of the Cagilan Empire coming along. I just wish I'd got my !@#$ together, slapped down some old moaners, got over our bizarre rivalry with RedSpan and signed an alliance with Gauihu rather than prevaricated over getting involved in that big war. Should've just thrown caution to the wind and got Tara before they got us, but hey ho.
Anyway, to my mind, that's when the balance of power in Atamara failed catastrophically and people started doing silly !@#$ like moving their realm hundreds of miles from their original founding place in powergaming nonsense pacts and all the rest. I love how everyone on the continent quite happily decimated every realm that had never, ever really been on the same page as Cagil after that and
now you hear moans about the state of Atamara. No point moaning about it now though, just have to deal with it. Personally I hope Carelia gets peace with Cagil and goes and tears the south a new one.
In fact, what I was really hoping for was for Carelia to make some agreement to turf over Wayburg to Suville and begin a collective effort to do in Caergoth. I think life would be much more interesting with 'Abington' back in the picture. Maybe even the Ash Sea Islands after that. But then, I would say that ;-)
Quote from: Indirik on October 19, 2011, 09:31:34 PM
And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria! :P
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on October 20, 2011, 07:02:39 AM
I proposed marching through Belegmon and either attacking Barad Falas or looting through the rurals and mountains back to Menedor. That was shot down.
I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.
You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?
Quote from: Perth on October 21, 2011, 04:25:23 AM
I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.
You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?
Would you fight Coria should they do that?
Quote from: Perth on October 21, 2011, 04:25:23 AM
I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.
You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?
I'm all for this, but honestly I don't know if it would turn things in our favor or not. I think it would take the pressure of off Carelia as the Empire would probably have to divert a lot of their strength over to propping up Talerium, but with Carelia already distracted by Suville I don't know how much good this really does us...
Quote from: JPierreD on October 21, 2011, 05:10:13 AM
Would you fight Coria should they do that?
If I had to guess, they probably would. However, anyone who honestly believes that the best way to win the war in the north is to attack and attempt to destroy Coria is sadly mistaken.
Coria has mountain regions, and to get to CE even using Corian lands you have to go through the mountains. That is probably the easiest route to defend from CE's perspective possible. In addition, Coria is a highly fortified realm. We are small, but you won't be able to sack Barad Falas without pretty much the entirety of the northern armies at your disposal. (And don't talk about how you have before, because that was a fluke with the Duke not in the city). With a duke standing guard it is not an easy task, especially because we can scout you out way in advance. In other words, any attacks on Coria ultimately will never allow you to attack CE.
Now, Talerium is mostly rural regions and a straight run to the heartland of CE's regions. However, if they are off limits CE is fully protected from any attacks.
However, it is likely too late for any of that to matter. If Darka had attacked Talerium at the beginning of the war, or soon after Coria was first forced out of the conflict it may have won the war. Now, it likely would only ruin Darka Talerium relations wihtout any benefit. This war is tipping already, and is slowly moving towards CE's alliance winning.
Something I don't understand: a former King of Falasan is the current Duke of Barad Gardor. Surely that's something that could be exploited if Coria is proving so troublesome an obstacle?
Quote from: Perth on October 21, 2011, 04:25:23 AMI don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.
I think the most feasible think to have done was to have burned down Barad Falas and destroyed Coria when we were sitting in their capital for an entire week, while Eston went behind everyone's back and signed a worse-than-useless treaty with Coria. The entire current situation in the east with Hammarsett never would have happened if we had done that.
But we've already been through that before.
QuoteYou REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?
If Darka had mustered a huge army, along with perhaps the Barony and a significant portion of Eston, and run straight for Cagil and sacked the crap out of it, we could have made significant progress in the war. A little bid of good timing with Carelia and it could have been done. Talerium's armies have always been small and mostly an annoyance, rather than a significant fighting force. My character even proposed such a move in-game, more than once. Unfortunately, diplomacy gets in the way.
Kinda like Eston's diplomacy with Coria got in the way, too.
Quote from: Indirik on October 21, 2011, 02:41:45 PM
I think the most feasible think to have done was to have burned down Barad Falas and destroyed Coria when we were sitting in their capital for an entire week, while Eston went behind everyone's back and signed a worse-than-useless treaty with Coria. The entire current situation in the east with Hammarsett never would have happened if we had done that.
What would this have really achieved? What? Coria would be in shambles and the Northern Alliance would STILL have to either march the long way through Tara just to reach the Cagilan Empire, where no doubt Cagilan and Taran armies would have been met. Or we would have to march over the mountains, something we could still do now but don't, obviously, because it doesn't work. How is destroying Coria IN ANY WAY a better strategy than neutralizing Talerium?
It just isn't. The Cagilan Empire is two rural regions away from Darkan borders. ONE rural region seperates Eston and Darka from the Cagilan Empire. Two rural regions away from Eston and Darka borders is Cagilan's northernmost city. Yet, because Darka insists on marching a whole week over to fight the enemy in Coria/Hammarsett, we haven't even come close to even sacking Eaglin.
I just really fail to see how Eston's relationship with Coria is even relatively on the same scale as Darka refusing to fight Talerium. The strategic gains we would get from each are simply not even close to equal.
Quote from: Perth on October 21, 2011, 07:22:51 PMWhat would this have really achieved?
Well, Hammarsett wouldn't be on the verge of extinction, because Tara and Coria were, well, hammering on them. This would let the north focus more on Tara, and expanding Hammarsett to make them a viable realm.
QuoteOr we would have to march over the mountains, something we could still do now but don't, obviously, because it doesn't work.
If Coria didn't exist, we wouldn't have to march through the mountains. We could have gone right through Barad Falas to hit Tara's northern regions. And possibly linking with Carelia for joint attacks. Again, allowing Hamamrsett to expand.
QuoteHow is destroying Coria IN ANY WAY a better strategy than neutralizing Talerium?
I didn't say it
was better. It was just more realistic, and more likely to happen. Darka has made clear from the start of the war, and probably before, that they would
not attack Talerium. Good/bad doesn't matter. It just wasn't going to happen. And that's really what sticks in the craw of many people. Eston knew, or should have known if they were paying attention, that Darka simply
would not attack Talerium under any circumstances. It's been Darka's policy for years. But Eston ignored that, and tried to force the northern alliance down a path that one of the largest members of it refused to follow.
Would Darka attacking Talerium have more sense from a pure strategic standpoint? Sure. If you completely ignore years of political history, and the people involved. But you just can't do that. Everyone who had been paying attention
knew that Darka would not attack Talerium. Eston apparently wasn't paying attention, because they tried to force the issue, and it backfired. And it's going to cost the northern alliance a lot.
And no, all the blame won't fall on Eston for it, either. Darka share's some of the blame, too. As do MI and Hammaresett, who can't seem to learn to cooperate. Grr... >:(
Hammarsett has been plagued by poor coordination with and amongst our allies. Some poor strategic choices were also made, such as attacking fortified regions. Those campaigns resulted in stiff losses and forced our allies to refit while Tara and Coria were then free to burn large tracts of Hammarsett to the ground after suffering minimal losses in defense.
I largely agree with Indirik though. We should have just finished Coria when we had them on their knees. The simple absence of their army from the field combined with having all their fortified regions out of our way (as opposed to a constant hindrance to our lines of supply and communication) is not an insignificant thing. Tara's rural north would be completely open to attack on multiple fronts, and it would only be them, minus the 5-7k CS Coria seems to be able to maintain. A stronger Hammarsett plus MI, BoM and Darka could do an awful lot of damage to them... Even with Coria in the picture we've managed to sack Tucha twice. Imagine what we could do if they weren't around...
Nothing that any of you are proposing though has anything to do with fighting and hurting CE. Simply put, to hurt CE you have to go through either mountains (Coria) or Talerium. If the NA's goals in this war were to hurt CE as they say, then even destroying Coria and burning some of Tara does nothing to accomplish this.
Talerium and a token CE force can hold the mountain-pass indefinitely while not losing any ground in the south against Carelia. In other words, even if you are 100% successful in all that this strategy would entail, you are still 0% successful in actually hurting CE the realm itself.
P.S. As far as destroying Coria goes, none of that would have even been necessary due to us having been out of the war by treaty. However, y'all chose to bring us back into the war and thus we caused problems once again.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 21, 2011, 11:22:40 PM
Nothing that any of you are proposing though has anything to do with fighting and hurting CE. Simply put, to hurt CE you have to go through either mountains (Coria) or Talerium. If the NA's goals in this war were to hurt CE as they say, then even destroying Coria and burning some of Tara does nothing to accomplish this.
Talerium and a token CE force can hold the mountain-pass indefinitely while not losing any ground in the south against Carelia. In other words, even if you are 100% successful in all that this strategy would entail, you are still 0% successful in actually hurting CE the realm itself.
P.S. As far as destroying Coria goes, none of that would have even been necessary due to us having been out of the war by treaty. However, y'all chose to bring us back into the war and thus we caused problems once again.
This.
Quote from: Geronus on October 21, 2011, 10:15:05 PM
Hammarsett has been plagued by poor coordination with and amongst our allies.
This.
Quote from: Geronus on October 21, 2011, 10:15:05 PM
Some poor strategic choices were also made, such as attacking fortified regions. Those campaigns resulted in stiff losses and forced our allies to refit while Tara and Coria were then free to burn large tracts of Hammarsett to the ground after suffering minimal losses in defense.
Not this, unless there are some very old battles you are referring to.
When I first joined, there was a big attack on Barad Gardor that very nearly succeeded. HAD it succeeded, we would have sacked the city and the whole war would have been different. Instead, we are about the same as we were before.
I don't know who ordered that attack but it was a good decision.
The only other attack on a fortified position was a rather insignificant fight in Menedor that would have been just fine if our allies sitting in Chuca had thought to mention the 4,000cs Tarans marching through Anafalas.
THAT'S where the issue is - constant begging day after day to get Generals to do the most basic knight's task of scouting and passing it on.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 21, 2011, 11:22:40 PMNothing that any of you are proposing though has anything to do with fighting and hurting CE.
Of course it does. You can hurt someone and change the relative balance of power in more ways that just dropping CE's region count a few notches.
QuoteTalerium and a token CE force can hold the mountain-pass indefinitely while not losing any ground in the south against Carelia.
Which is why I wanted to completely wipe Coria off the map, so we could march through Barad Falas, and go around the mountains. And yes, I know that puts me in Northern Tara. Sounds almost perfect.
QuoteIn other words, even if you are 100% successful in all that this strategy would entail, you are still 0% successful in actually hurting CE the realm itself.
Only if you're only yardstick is how much physical damage you do to CE regions. It is possible to weaken CE overall by distracting and damaging their allies, and allowing the northern alliance to grow stronger.
QuoteP.S. As far as destroying Coria goes, none of that would have even been necessary due to us having been out of the war by treaty. However, y'all chose to bring us back into the war and thus we caused problems once again.
That was the !@#$tiest treaty ever written, so far as the northern alliance goes. Completely unacceptable to anyone but Eston. Coria was /not/ out of the war, as evidenced by your "trip to the family home" expedition, or whatever you called it, that was a (not very) disguised military expedition.
But this is a ridiculous discussion. We've been over this at least a dozen times, and we both know we completely disagree with each other The outcome of the war was a foregone conclusion when the southern front devolved into Carelia fighting CE one on one. The Caergoth secession, and Suville's backstab were just icing on CE's cake.
It doesn't much matter now. Darka has shown the world the only reason they were feared is because of the large number of cs they would bring swooping down into the middle of any gangbang.
Now that you have a long, complicated war you can barely muster 2/3 of that, have long marches that put you out of the war most of the time, and can't coordinate a tea party with your allies.
It won't be much longer before Hammarsett and Minas Ithil fall, and then the Coria/Tara/CE/(Talerium) axis will be so strong Eston and Darka will become the latest footnote in history.
Quote from: Jens Namtrah on October 22, 2011, 04:30:47 AM
It doesn't much matter now. Darka has shown the world the only reason they were feared is because of the large number of cs they would bring swooping down into the middle of any gangbang.
Now that you have a long, complicated war you can barely muster 2/3 of that, have long marches that put you out of the war most of the time, and can't coordinate a tea party with your allies.
It won't be much longer before Hammarsett and Minas Ithil fall, and then the Coria/Tara/CE/(Talerium) axis will be so strong Eston and Darka will become the latest footnote in history.
Whoa now you found your solution to the problem of this war.Our whole alliance has shown incapability and if you want my opinion we do not !@#$ing deserve to win this war.
Since day one there is only bitching in this alliance and crying and i will remind you that in the beginning of this war if there was one realm that would actually fight that was Darka and yes for both numbers and moving.When BoM for example wa s only bringing on the field 5k that never stayed alive for longer than a week. Darka does not have men to bring on the field anymore because a huge amount of players left, any person who actually follows the Realm List and checks on statistics has already understood this.
This alliance sucks and i include Darka's results in this war because it is a bitter truth but do try to understand it's a failure combined by everyone ,either that is in military power and strategy or agreements it must honor.In fact i would only praise Carelia at this point for having balls to fight this war with whatever they had and suffered the worst already. But pointing fingers has really started to be annoying because the problem is not one or two realms but the combination of this whole alliance.
I can't praise Carelia. I had (now paused) a character there for most of the war. I have people I like there and I know its military fairly solidly having been in all three of their current armies. And that's where the credit goes out the window. Yes, Carelia is to be admired for fighting the Cagilan Empire, rather than some proxy, in a war that was supposedly targetting the Cagilan Empire but the fact was, is, and will remain that Carelia's armies are disorganized and under-motivated. They've seen victories against CE, but far far more defeats. Last I was there, the sentiment was "Its only a matter of time". I can't imagine what the sentiment is with Suville attacking them from the south.
Tim is right in that damaging CE's allies hurts CE and benefits its enemies in the long run. But how long a run do you want to go for here? Because at the end of the day, even without her allies, CE is a monster of a realm with plenty of food, gold and motivated nobles. Fight that or eventually lose. That's always been the case.
Finn.
yeah, we're all guilty, but at least (very) recently we're starting to see actual coordination, instead of just talk about how we need to do it better.
not out of this war yet.
Quote from: Jens Namtrah on October 22, 2011, 04:30:47 AMDarka has shown the world the only reason they were feared is because of the large number of cs they would bring swooping down into the middle of any gangbang.
So, you finally noticed that Darka is no different than any other realm, eh? The only reason any realm is feared is because fo the large amount of CS they can wield. Some realms wield it directly, others when combined with allies.
QuoteNow that you have a long, complicated war you can barely muster 2/3 of that, have long marches that put you out of the war most of the time, and can't coordinate a tea party with your allies.
You're right, Darka's strength has dropped. But not because it's along war. It's because for Darka, it's mostly a boring war. Too much marching. Not enough fighting. Too much politics. Not enough fighting. All those people that joined Darka at the start of the war, because they thought "This is finally the war where we get to stick it to CE", realized that this war is just like most wars. Long and boring, except for those who are fighting on their borders.
QuoteIt won't be much longer before Hammarsett and Minas Ithil fall, and then the Coria/Tara/CE/(Talerium) axis will be so strong Eston and Darka will become the latest footnote in history.
You could very well be right.
yes, so you need to show up with enough gold to stay in the field and refit in your allies cities. only cycle back people who lose most of their men - keep as many men on the front lines for as long as possible.
This is something only the Darkan leadership can arrange. We can tell you these things, but we can't arrange it among your troops.
Many of your troops could be joining us in an attack right now if they had refit in Shanandoah - many had a good 15-20 men left - , but if you only take the time to order "everyone refit in Azzal" instead of looking at possibilities, then the expected results occur.
A lot of marching, a lot of boredom, a lot of attrition among your nobles.
Maybe now that you have a new General some things will change ;)
I think the assumption that the Cagilan Empire would wish to destroy realms, just because they are fighting against them, is false. It would be more about the conduct during the war, the relations before the war, and the manner in which the war was declared.
Like the time 30-region CE and its allies felt threatened by tiny Falasan?
Quote from: Sacha on October 24, 2011, 12:45:52 PM
Like the time 30-region CE and its allies felt threatened by tiny Falasan?
That is another matter, and years separated from this one.
Quote from: Bael on October 24, 2011, 12:43:56 PM
I think the assumption that the Cagilan Empire would wish to destroy realms, just because they are fighting against them, is false. It would be more about the conduct during the war, the relations before the war, and the manner in which the war was declared.
It isn't so much destroying other realms that is the goal, of course, but of establishing colonies to become their puppet allies and buffer states.
Quote from: Perth on October 24, 2011, 09:13:35 PM
It isn't so much destroying other realms that is the goal, of course, but of establishing colonies to become their puppet allies and buffer states.
I wonder if CE & allies will be able to plant successful colonies at this point. One new colony would probably be the most they could manage and the south would be an easier place to found it than the north. Talerium has 21 nobles to manage 15 regions (1.4 ratio). Coria will be stretched thin if it is able to reclaim all the rogue regions around it. CE and Tara are in better shape but it doesn't look like they would be able to contribute very many nobles to a colony either.
Quote from: Sypher on October 25, 2011, 04:11:51 AM
I wonder if CE & allies will be able to plant successful colonies at this point. One new colony would probably be the most they could manage and the south would be an easier place to found it than the north. Talerium has 21 nobles to manage 15 regions (1.4 ratio). Coria will be stretched thin if it is able to reclaim all the rogue regions around it. CE and Tara are in better shape but it doesn't look like they would be able to contribute very many nobles to a colony either.
This could change quite a bit if and when the new estate system moves to stable.
I can see this really ushering in a "Roman Empire" type scenario, if they go that way.
Imagine trying to maintain a colony in Icegate with a small outpost of loyal nobles and hordes of angry vikings swarming down on them every time they turn their back.
Quote from: Geronus on October 25, 2011, 04:43:02 AM
This could change quite a bit if and when the new estate system moves to stable.
Yeah, it could change things quite a bit. Its going to hurt some realms though. Talerium and other realms near or below 2 nobles per region should see a decrease in income.
Quote from: Sypher on October 26, 2011, 08:07:02 AM
Yeah, it could change things quite a bit. Its going to hurt some realms though. Talerium and other realms near or below 2 nobles per region should see a decrease in income.
Maybe maybe not - depends on how they currently order their estates. If all those lords with no knights have their estates set to production then yes, they will see a *huge* drop in income. The biggest estate I have seen in any Testing region so far is 50%. You figure that that will probably be at something like 70% efficiency and then factor in that the other half of the land will be wild, and you get a 40% drop in total income from the region. Pretty much everyone will see a decline in income though - the new estate system guarantees that. The difference will be in degrees depending on how many knights a realm has available and how efficiently they structure their estates.
I just want to congratulate Severus Scarlett's player on nearly choking me to death earlier today with the following hilarity:
"somewhere between your letters and the Queen's was lain and incubated the Egg of Disaster, which hath now hatched into the Chicken of Regret."
50% was the max size for the townsland of Raviel.
estate efficiency peasants
Gornak 50 % 72 % 4171
Baulden 50 % 73 % 4171
And, I think, can be reached in Celtiberia.
CE has 73 nobles. Admittedly, 28 regions. But they haven't been afraid to take lands from Carelia for the entire war so they are presumably confident of securing as far as Strombran. And that's under the current estate system. If CE wanted to expand its authority on the continent - and lets face it, they do - then I can easily see how they'd be interested in more than one colony resulting from this war. If the estate system came in here on stable, I would believe that the current conflict won't end until they get three.
Maybe I'm overestimating them or their ambition, but the last time I was in CE, that definitely fits the mindset.
Finton.
Quote from: Carna on October 29, 2011, 06:11:24 AM
And, I think, can be reached in Celtiberia.
CE has 73 nobles. Admittedly, 28 regions. But they haven't been afraid to take lands from Carelia for the entire war so they are presumably confident of securing as far as Strombran. And that's under the current estate system. If CE wanted to expand its authority on the continent - and lets face it, they do - then I can easily see how they'd be interested in more than one colony resulting from this war. If the estate system came in here on stable, I would believe that the current conflict won't end until they get three.
Maybe I'm overestimating them or their ambition, but the last time I was in CE, that definitely fits the mindset.
Finton.
By god let's just do it and get it over with. Make the whole damn island CE vassals, so that - hey - maybe they'll actually start fighting each other? I still hate Atamara.
Maybe we will see the first realm ever to unify a whole continent?
Helmsdale shall not give in! >:( 8)
Of course not. CE isn't going to get too friendly with realms that wanted to burn Calis to the ground. That's what CTO's are for :)
We won't see a unified Atamara, thank God. CE doesn't want that. They want to be the big boys who people are very, very wary of irritating. They want their lands to be safe and they want to be able to go off and have a bit of fun fighting a war or two. Good for noble retention. So they'll purposefully sabotage themselves if they ever get even close to that level of success. Doesn't mean they'll ever give anyone a fair fight. Why the hell would they?
Finn ;D
Quote from: Carna on October 29, 2011, 09:50:51 PM
Of course not. CE isn't going to get too friendly with realms that wanted to burn Calis to the ground. That's what CTO's are for :)
We won't see a unified Atamara, thank God. CE doesn't want that. They want to be the big boys who people are very, very wary of irritating. They want their lands to be safe and they want to be able to go off and have a bit of fun fighting a war or two. Good for noble retention. So they'll purposefully sabotage themselves if they ever get even close to that level of success. Doesn't mean they'll ever give anyone a fair fight. Why the hell would they?
Finn ;D
Yeah, see that's lame. Lame, lame, lame lame, lame. Who the hell wants to play on an island where one realm basically dictates the outcome of every conflict? Sure, it might be fun for CE, and maybe even their hangers-on. For everyone else it just sucks the fun out of the game. Everything they do must play to CE. They are not free to pursue their own agendas naturally. Instead they can only succeed in their endeavors if CE either helps them of turns a blind eye. So basically, conflict-wise, the only way to ever get anything you want is to convince CE to join the war you want to fight on your side, at which time it becomes a horribly one-sided gang bang. That or convince them to not get involved, but since they're basically always looking for an excuse to fight someone just for entertainment, it's pretty much impossible to keep them out of a war unless they're involved in one of their own already.
This right here is pretty much everything I hate about Atamara. It's like an Old Boys Club. There's so much back-patting going on at the highest levels that all conflict on the island always feels contrived and inevitably changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. People complain about our retention problem? This kind of atmosphere I feel is partly to blame. The current war is the best thing to have happened to Atamara in a long time, but it's emblematic of everything that's wrong with Atamara that most of the island united against CE and it still doesn't look like we can beat them.
Quote from: Geronus on October 30, 2011, 02:27:02 AM
Who the hell wants to play on an island where one realm basically dictates the outcome of every conflict?
Tara, Talerium and Coria.
And now apparently Suville, Caergoth and their rouge Duke.
:P
Its not as if CE are unbeatable. Its just that the other realm's don't really want CE to be beaten. The south east is in tatters due to infighting and lack of motivation. The others either send token forces or refuse to make a united push to attack CE, rather than CE's buffers. Look at the distance Darka travels. CE are good and deserve recognition for that fact, but they're not the one's hamstringing the efforts against them. Their enemies ensure their continued dominance. I don't doubt that there are a lot of people who'd like to see things change, but there are actually more that don't. Everyone in the "Central Alliance" presumably doesn't want to see the situation change and while there are people outside who do, if it was everyone there wouldn't be all these complications or failure to follow orders.
I'm unsympathetic because CE's rulership of Atamara is only possible because others allow it, whether by assisting or by not devoting every resource to removing them from that position. I agree that the whole thing isn't ideal for overall gameplay, but I won't blame or hold it against them because they're only doing, very well, what they should do and have loyal allies.
Meh.
Quote from: Carna on October 30, 2011, 07:57:55 AM
Its not as if CE are unbeatable. Its just that the other realm's don't really want CE to be beaten. The south east is in tatters due to infighting and lack of motivation. The others either send token forces or refuse to make a united push to attack CE, rather than CE's buffers. Look at the distance Darka travels. CE are good and deserve recognition for that fact, but they're not the one's hamstringing the efforts against them. Their enemies ensure their continued dominance. I don't doubt that there are a lot of people who'd like to see things change, but there are actually more that don't. Everyone in the "Central Alliance" presumably doesn't want to see the situation change and while there are people outside who do, if it was everyone there wouldn't be all these complications or failure to follow orders.
I'm unsympathetic because CE's rulership of Atamara is only possible because others allow it, whether by assisting or by not devoting every resource to removing them from that position. I agree that the whole thing isn't ideal for overall gameplay, but I won't blame or hold it against them because they're only doing, very well, what they should do and have loyal allies.
Meh.
You are certainly right in some respects, but the problem isn't all that no one will focus on CE. We tried that for a little bit and found out that it's almost impossible to take the fight to CE when CE's allies are devoting all their effort to keeping you off CE's back. We switched focus to Tara because of how disruptive they were to our efforts. Of poor coordination and certain realms' weird friendships with certain of our enemies you are absolutely correct. Eston and Darka do us very little good when they declare that they won't fight certain enemy realms that border them, and coordination in the north has been piss poor. That's less because we like it that way though than that we suck.
Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on October 26, 2011, 06:48:41 PM
I just want to congratulate Severus Scarlett's player on nearly choking me to death earlier today with the following hilarity:
"somewhere between your letters and the Queen's was lain and incubated the Egg of Disaster, which hath now hatched into the Chicken of Regret."
That's pretty amazing ;D
I would definitely be giving a fun medal for that!!
Quote from: Bael on October 30, 2011, 03:14:41 PM
That's pretty amazing ;D
I would definitely be giving a fun medal for that!!
I don't think I can give out medals. At least, I don't know how, and (like nearly everything else) it isn't explained anywhere.
Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on October 30, 2011, 09:05:50 PM
I don't think I can give out medals. At least, I don't know how, and (like nearly everything else) it isn't explained anywhere.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Help:Medals (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Help:Medals)
Quote from: egamma on October 30, 2011, 09:52:12 PM
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Help:Medals (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Help:Medals)
Look at what comes up if you search for "Medals" on the BM Wiki (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Medals&fulltext=Search). The first link that comes up is "Sandalak (SEI)/Recipients of Service medals." Please don't imply that I didn't even bother looking around, because I did.
Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on October 30, 2011, 11:50:46 PM
Look at what comes up if you search for "Medals" on the BM Wiki (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Medals&fulltext=Search). The first link that comes up is "Sandalak (SEI)/Recipients of Service medals." Please don't imply that I didn't even bother looking around, because I did.
He's not implying that at all. It is well understood that some things are hard to find. Just provided the link.
Yeah, but as much as Eston and Darka not attacking Coria and Talerium respectively doesn't particularly help, the real issue as I see it is Darka failing to disregard Talerium's military and, along with Eston's armies, march right through northeast Talerium to decimate Eaglin and the surrounding regions. Or hit Cagil. Or Calis. All three of CE's biggest cities are on the west side of that river and Darka and Eston together could well capitalize on that. It won't make the fight substantially easier for the anti-CE alliance given that CE are mostly terrorizing the poor defenseless (seems that way, at least) Carelia but long-term if there's a want to weaken or disarm CE, it's to hit its big gold production. Burning food won't, obviously, do much good with so much food producing land on either side of the river. Which does bring up the interesting point of rather than Eston/Darka hitting CE's fortified cities, they coordinate a looting raid right down the depth of CE on the west bank of the river with the northern realms hitting the eastern bank down to Esgalons or Vornion. Course, the northern realms would have to break through.
Tara is CE. The banners should give that away. Ottar is very close with his brother, a senior member of the Imperial Senate. While he's in power, Tara will be unquestionably loyal to their Federated allies. If those badlands of Tara's were rural regions, there wouldn't be a point of even bothering looting CE unless you've emptied Tara's warehouses first and burned their fields. And let's face it, a Tyranny makes for good army discipline >:( Inseperable as they are, Tara should be the primary concern of the north (Barony, MI, etc.) If you can't kill them, cripple them at the least. Send a properly loyal noble or two down who don't look too loyal to you. Join the underground. See if you can stir strife against Ottar. Or send traders down to Tara/CE to buy all their food to cause a little starvation. No one remembers CE doing that to Eston?
And speaking of Eston, I don't blame them for their diplomacy with Coria. I'm biased, but I'd see it as a nice little stepping stone. Hell, that's what I saw it as - much to my irritation at the time - when I was in CE. And not a good stepping stone. Coria likes its independence. It doesn't forget its masters, but it hates being viewed as CE's colony or buffer or domain. They like to feel more important than that - and not without just cause - and no doubt welcomes the thoughts of having their own diplomacy that isn't dominated by CE's foreign policy. But they know CE is better than you. Ask Mr. Dante there. But turning Coria's alliegence wouldn't be a bad thing. Think of their two big cities, their future mountain holdings, and consider the access that provides into Tara and/or CE? Hammersett has its problems with Coria, I acknowledge, but they're not a real realm and could even be gifted to Coria (read as bribery) at the start of their inclusion in the war against CE.
So yeah. I've had this building up in me for ages now but, y'know, loyalty to my first realm is hard to get over. This is, if you ask me, how you beat CE. The southeast is a mess. Ignore them. Heh, the problem is of course that this would require the level of unity CE and its allies rely on, not something the rest can really lay claim to. Still, people complain about Atamara being stagnant. I tend to disagree not because a lot happens or changes, but because its the status quo that most people readily accept. Stagnant? Maybe. But its not a necessary state for the continent, in my mind, because its something that could change if there really was all this devotion to taking down CE we see on the forums and the ruler channel. Course, now I'm starting to get why people say Atamara is stagnant. Who knows though? Maybe someone will work behind the scenes to do what I suggest or something else to shake things up. You can usually rely on ambition to provide such people. The usual problem is that the powers that be are quite happy with how things are, so one or two voices are drowned out in yawns. Stagnant, but because not enough people want more than what they already have. Sad. Nobles are meant to be ambitious and cunning not honourable and lazy.
Not that I feel strongly on this or anything... :-X
Quote from: Carna on October 31, 2011, 08:11:06 AM
Yeah, but as much as Eston and Darka not attacking Coria and Talerium respectively doesn't particularly help, the real issue as I see it is Darka failing to disregard Talerium's military and, along with Eston's armies, march right through northeast Talerium to decimate Eaglin and the surrounding regions. Or hit Cagil. Or Calis. All three of CE's biggest cities are on the west side of that river and Darka and Eston together could well capitalize on that. It won't make the fight substantially easier for the anti-CE alliance given that CE are mostly terrorizing the poor defenseless (seems that way, at least) Carelia but long-term if there's a want to weaken or disarm CE, it's to hit its big gold production. Burning food won't, obviously, do much good with so much food producing land on either side of the river. Which does bring up the interesting point of rather than Eston/Darka hitting CE's fortified cities, they coordinate a looting raid right down the depth of CE on the west bank of the river with the northern realms hitting the eastern bank down to Esgalons or Vornion. Course, the northern realms would have to break through.
Tara is CE. The banners should give that away. Ottar is very close with his brother, a senior member of the Imperial Senate. While he's in power, Tara will be unquestionably loyal to their Federated allies. If those badlands of Tara's were rural regions, there wouldn't be a point of even bothering looting CE unless you've emptied Tara's warehouses first and burned their fields. And let's face it, a Tyranny makes for good army discipline >:( Inseperable as they are, Tara should be the primary concern of the north (Barony, MI, etc.) If you can't kill them, cripple them at the least. Send a properly loyal noble or two down who don't look too loyal to you. Join the underground. See if you can stir strife against Ottar. Or send traders down to Tara/CE to buy all their food to cause a little starvation. No one remembers CE doing that to Eston?
And speaking of Eston, I don't blame them for their diplomacy with Coria. I'm biased, but I'd see it as a nice little stepping stone. Hell, that's what I saw it as - much to my irritation at the time - when I was in CE. And not a good stepping stone. Coria likes its independence. It doesn't forget its masters, but it hates being viewed as CE's colony or buffer or domain. They like to feel more important than that - and not without just cause - and no doubt welcomes the thoughts of having their own diplomacy that isn't dominated by CE's foreign policy. But they know CE is better than you. Ask Mr. Dante there. But turning Coria's alliegence wouldn't be a bad thing. Think of their two big cities, their future mountain holdings, and consider the access that provides into Tara and/or CE? Hammersett has its problems with Coria, I acknowledge, but they're not a real realm and could even be gifted to Coria (read as bribery) at the start of their inclusion in the war against CE.
So yeah. I've had this building up in me for ages now but, y'know, loyalty to my first realm is hard to get over. This is, if you ask me, how you beat CE. The southeast is a mess. Ignore them. Heh, the problem is of course that this would require the level of unity CE and its allies rely on, not something the rest can really lay claim to. Still, people complain about Atamara being stagnant. I tend to disagree not because a lot happens or changes, but because its the status quo that most people readily accept. Stagnant? Maybe. But its not a necessary state for the continent, in my mind, because its something that could change if there really was all this devotion to taking down CE we see on the forums and the ruler channel. Course, now I'm starting to get why people say Atamara is stagnant. Who knows though? Maybe someone will work behind the scenes to do what I suggest or something else to shake things up. You can usually rely on ambition to provide such people. The usual problem is that the powers that be are quite happy with how things are, so one or two voices are drowned out in yawns. Stagnant, but because not enough people want more than what they already have. Sad. Nobles are meant to be ambitious and cunning not honourable and lazy.
Not that I feel strongly on this or anything... :-X
The bigger problem is that the ambition of one or even a few people does not readily convert into tight co-operation and activity of entire realms. There are ways to encourage active players to join realms sure, but there are not guarantee's that you can attract the necessary forces.
Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on October 30, 2011, 11:50:46 PM
Look at what comes up if you search for "Medals" on the BM Wiki (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=Medals&fulltext=Search). The first link that comes up is "Sandalak (SEI)/Recipients of Service medals." Please don't imply that I didn't even bother looking around, because I did.
This is because the search does not include the Help Pages. On that page, right under the search box, 'Content pages' are selected. Select 'Help and Project pages' and you will search the help files, which will guide you to the right page. You can also reach it via the ingame help, but for any wiki searches, try to switch to the help files or everything when you look up information. I only just figured this out as well, but it helps a lot.
Quote from: Carna on October 31, 2011, 08:11:06 AM
Yeah, but as much as Eston and Darka not attacking Coria and Talerium respectively doesn't particularly help, the real issue as I see it is Darka failing to disregard Talerium's military and, along with Eston's armies, march right through northeast Talerium to decimate Eaglin and the surrounding regions. Or hit Cagil. Or Calis. All three of CE's biggest cities are on the west side of that river and Darka and Eston together could well capitalize on that. It won't make the fight substantially easier for the anti-CE alliance given that CE are mostly terrorizing the poor defenseless (seems that way, at least) Carelia but long-term if there's a want to weaken or disarm CE, it's to hit its big gold production. Burning food won't, obviously, do much good with so much food producing land on either side of the river. Which does bring up the interesting point of rather than Eston/Darka hitting CE's fortified cities, they coordinate a looting raid right down the depth of CE on the west bank of the river with the northern realms hitting the eastern bank down to Esgalons or Vornion. Course, the northern realms would have to break through.
Tara is CE. The banners should give that away. Ottar is very close with his brother, a senior member of the Imperial Senate. While he's in power, Tara will be unquestionably loyal to their Federated allies. If those badlands of Tara's were rural regions, there wouldn't be a point of even bothering looting CE unless you've emptied Tara's warehouses first and burned their fields. And let's face it, a Tyranny makes for good army discipline >:( Inseperable as they are, Tara should be the primary concern of the north (Barony, MI, etc.) If you can't kill them, cripple them at the least. Send a properly loyal noble or two down who don't look too loyal to you. Join the underground. See if you can stir strife against Ottar. Or send traders down to Tara/CE to buy all their food to cause a little starvation. No one remembers CE doing that to Eston?
And speaking of Eston, I don't blame them for their diplomacy with Coria. I'm biased, but I'd see it as a nice little stepping stone. Hell, that's what I saw it as - much to my irritation at the time - when I was in CE. And not a good stepping stone. Coria likes its independence. It doesn't forget its masters, but it hates being viewed as CE's colony or buffer or domain. They like to feel more important than that - and not without just cause - and no doubt welcomes the thoughts of having their own diplomacy that isn't dominated by CE's foreign policy. But they know CE is better than you. Ask Mr. Dante there. But turning Coria's alliegence wouldn't be a bad thing. Think of their two big cities, their future mountain holdings, and consider the access that provides into Tara and/or CE? Hammersett has its problems with Coria, I acknowledge, but they're not a real realm and could even be gifted to Coria (read as bribery) at the start of their inclusion in the war against CE.
So yeah. I've had this building up in me for ages now but, y'know, loyalty to my first realm is hard to get over. This is, if you ask me, how you beat CE. The southeast is a mess. Ignore them. Heh, the problem is of course that this would require the level of unity CE and its allies rely on, not something the rest can really lay claim to. Still, people complain about Atamara being stagnant. I tend to disagree not because a lot happens or changes, but because its the status quo that most people readily accept. Stagnant? Maybe. But its not a necessary state for the continent, in my mind, because its something that could change if there really was all this devotion to taking down CE we see on the forums and the ruler channel. Course, now I'm starting to get why people say Atamara is stagnant. Who knows though? Maybe someone will work behind the scenes to do what I suggest or something else to shake things up. You can usually rely on ambition to provide such people. The usual problem is that the powers that be are quite happy with how things are, so one or two voices are drowned out in yawns. Stagnant, but because not enough people want more than what they already have. Sad. Nobles are meant to be ambitious and cunning not honourable and lazy.
Not that I feel strongly on this or anything... :-X
We actually did attempt to attack CE from that direction for a while. Hammarsett, BoM and Eston made some raids through Talerium. The problem was that Tara's entire army would show up and kick our ass every time we did, hence the shift in strategy. We thought that as long as Tara was intent on propping up the Empire no questions asked, we should probably take the fight to them and try to damage their warmaking ability.
Tara and CE are more or less wedded at the hip, I know. It's disappointing actually. Talerium and Coria are almost window-dressing, those two alone are the real power bloc. As long as Tara and CE are so tightly knit I don't think there's much chance of a change to the status quo.
Quote from: Geronus on October 31, 2011, 06:06:10 PM
We actually did attempt to attack CE from that direction for a while. Hammarsett, BoM and Eston made some raids through Talerium. The problem was that Tara's entire army would show up and kick our ass every time we did, hence the shift in strategy. We thought that as long as Tara was intent on propping up the Empire no questions asked, we should probably take the fight to them and try to damage their warmaking ability.
Tara and CE are more or less wedded at the hip, I know. It's disappointing actually. Talerium and Coria are almost window-dressing, those two alone are the real power bloc. As long as Tara and CE are so tightly knit I don't think there's much chance of a change to the status quo.
The thing is, that you are half correct and half dead wrong.
The correct part is: Let's say Talerium and Coria just weren't here right now and that space was empty. You are correct in that with the way the war is currently being executed by CE/Tara's enemies they would still lose to Tara and CE.
The wrong part is: CE and Tara being unified in a federation is NOT what is stopping this war from going in your favor. CE/Tara are quite beatable, I just don't believe its being executed correctly. Or, that as Carna has stated that the enemies against them really want it to happen. Then again, I don't plan on saying how I think they could be beaten, because well I'm on their side right now. (or at least my char is).
Quote from: Geronus on October 30, 2011, 02:27:02 AM
Yeah, see that's lame. Lame, lame, lame lame, lame. Who the hell wants to play on an island where one realm basically dictates the outcome of every conflict? Sure, it might be fun for CE, and maybe even their hangers-on. For everyone else it just sucks the fun out of the game. Everything they do must play to CE. They are not free to pursue their own agendas naturally. Instead they can only succeed in their endeavors if CE either helps them of turns a blind eye. So basically, conflict-wise, the only way to ever get anything you want is to convince CE to join the war you want to fight on your side, at which time it becomes a horribly one-sided gang bang. That or convince them to not get involved, but since they're basically always looking for an excuse to fight someone just for entertainment, it's pretty much impossible to keep them out of a war unless they're involved in one of their own already.
This right here is pretty much everything I hate about Atamara. It's like an Old Boys Club. There's so much back-patting going on at the highest levels that all conflict on the island always feels contrived and inevitably changes nothing in the grand scheme of things. People complain about our retention problem? This kind of atmosphere I feel is partly to blame. The current war is the best thing to have happened to Atamara in a long time, but it's emblematic of everything that's wrong with Atamara that most of the island united against CE and it still doesn't look like we can beat them.
Quote from: Geronus on October 31, 2011, 06:58:32 PM
A history of utterly annihilating one's enemies will do that ;)
The whole business with Caerwyn has us united and in a very bellicose mood. Moderates and peaceniks of all stripes have more or less gone into hiding or been converted into hawks, at least temporarily. This is probably the worst possible time in the history of Dwilight to start trouble with SA, no joke.
The bear is not asleep, it is very awake and very angry, and freshly returned from a very satisfying mauling. So satisfying in fact that it's really considering abandoning rooting for grubs and honey and taking up mauling on a full-time basis, as a sort of professional killer bear. After all it reflects, nature seems to have given it a whole lot of pointy claws and teeth and a large amount of muscle with which to employ them, so perhaps this is what it intended for bears all along, and all those grubs and honey were really just distractions from its true purpose, which is apparently to maul innocent campers, especially ones seen in possession of pointy sticks the sort with which it was recently poked by a couple of particularly overconfident campers, much to their eventual dismay.
Campers beware: Avoid the bear. And avoid picking up pointy sticks. The bear will eventually realize that it can't make a living mauling things, and then it will go back to periodically hibernating and rooting for grubs and honey. But until that time, it would be most unwise for any camper to approach the bear, especially while in possession of a pointy stick.
The same person wrote these two posts? Really?
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 01, 2011, 02:37:55 AM
The same person wrote these two posts? Really?
Whether you find this surprising depends on whether you equate SA with the CE bloc. Personally I do not.
In any case, I don't blame the players on the other side for doing what they do. Like Carna said, it makes perfect sense. I just don't like the atmosphere that results.
EDIT: Which I suppose just goes to show that I should quit complaining and just pause my Atamara character already...
Nice of you to point that one out ;D
Unknit CE and Tara. That's the obvious conclusion. Tearing your way through Tara without making efforts to cause internal dissent is you fighting a one dimensional war. Its not going anywhere.
I don't discount Coria and Talerium entirely. Coria's location, like we've always known it would, puts Coria into a position of strategic importance whether you're marching north or south. Talerium I do discount. That's not anti-CE bias, that's CE bias. Sure, their PM might as well be a monarch or dictator, but that doesn't translate to coordination or increased military funding. Its been a stagnant realm for years and, on that basis, as deserving of a bit of a thrashing as Carelia was. Ask Eston what sort of a challenge they provide, and then ask if CE is helping them provide even that much (or little). Throw Darka in the mix and Talerium would have no choice but to abandon CE. Not turn against them, but stay out of it.
That's one down.
If you can't get past the buffer armies to hit CE directly, that's understandable. No amount of slick moves or iron discipline can teleport an army from Icegate to Calis. But if those buffer armies are a problem, why fight the long game of tearing through their regions? They're still going to have a sizable enough military, especially properly motivated to defend themselves, so unless you're going to physically take the regions off their hands, better to force them out of it. Why, then, can this not be done by brute force with Talerium and diplomacy with Coria? Talerium, even with CE's help, could never hope to stop Darka and Eston together. Coria, with Tara's help, could continue to bottleneck the northern forces. Make it very much in Coria's interests to turn and they will. They're independent. Coria's best interests. Ask Dante. As for Talerium, check the continent stats. They are running at about 35 bushels each, with anything less than 100 indicating that they need to import. A month of raids, both with individual black market traders and with armies from Eston and Darka, and Talerium would be starved into neutrality.
Its easy to run a war when you're not actually running the war, I know. Politics and diplomacy gets involved, as do individual agreements that the individuals making them don't want to break. But from an objective enough point of view (I've little interest in who wins or loses, tbh) some sort of grand plan would probably be nice, serve as motivation for the ACE knights and lords and might actually bear a little fruit.
Can't do worse than this hodge-podge of conflicting plans of action and more often inaction.
Finn.
P.S. Dwilight is bigger, in a geographical sense. Still, its an entirely apt comparison. Caerwyn. Carelia. 'Nuff said?
Quote from: Carna on November 01, 2011, 05:15:44 AM
P.S. Dwilight is bigger, in a geographical sense. Still, its an entirely apt comparison. Caerwyn. Carelia. 'Nuff said?
Meh, I disagree, but then I'm biased. We have our sphere of influence, but we leave the rest of the island alone. Dwilight, unlike Atamara, does not require all realms to seek out wars just to keep things interesting. There's plenty of monsters to kill, and colonies to nurture, enough so that it's entirely possible for us to leave our neighbors alone indefinitely provided they don't bother us. That was our approach to relations with Caerwyn; they're the ones who decided to go all Lizzie Borden on us...
Just curious, y'know, but who started this current war?
Carelia I think. 8)
Yep. That's settled. No comparison between CE and SA.
:o
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 01, 2011, 02:37:55 AMThe same person wrote these two posts? Really?
For my part, I don't blame CE for what they've done, or the end result. They've been *very* successful, and have the might to show for it. So long as they have played it all IC, then that's fine with me. Even if they have used strong-arm tactics, dirty politics, etc., it doesn't matter, so long as it's all been IC, and not OOC.
CE/Tara is free to do whatever they want, and it's up to the rest of us to stop them. There's certainly enough war going on on Atamara that it's not like the Great Peace on EC. Should they proceed to "win" the island, and unite everything into a single, tight political alliance, then I think it will move to an OOC obligation on the leaders to do something to keep it from staying that way for a significant length of time.
They'd have to. Otherwise the continent would properly stagnate this time and realms would start bleeding nobles. TMP isn't strictly needed when you recognize the fact that fighting a war means something to do for yonder knights and dames and therefore they're a bit more active, or don't disappear off every few days.
CE won't want to get everyone together in a big fluffy group though. My guess is Darka will feel the heat if and when CE can look up rather than down the map. Back when I was in the Imperial Senate, it was a question of Darka or Carelia. Darka was winning, by a long-shot. Someone needs to slap Leta upside the head. Course, Carelia has MS (and now a MS ruler), so it won't just be a bashing. It'll be Falasan. They'll leave Carelia with a diminished Duchy. Then Tara will take it while no one's looking. They take MS very seriously in there. Still, Darka can expect to be excluded from any peace deals unless they're doing the brokering. Strangely, as much as the Barony has probably earned a bit of dislike from CE, there was never any bad feelings towards them even when fighting against them way back when. Times may have changed, but Darka's nearer and of more use too.
Lets face it though. If nothing drastic happens to change things up, CE will simply burn and rape and pillage their way through Carelia as they've been doing (ouch with Suville about to take Wayburg) and then turn north. There won't be hugs for Darka, the Barony, Hammersett or MI though. On the case of Eston, if they're still playing as smart as they were, they'd try turn them against Darka. "How about your old Duchy back? And why not wait for Darka to be off fighting Tara before we move in and help you take it, eh?" Admittedly has a Red Wedding feel to the whole idea, but its not like the same didn't happen to Eston by Darka or Norland by Eston/BoM.
Strangely, every cunning plan I think up to win this war for one side or the other generally involves turning either Eston to CE or Coria to anti-CE. I guess its true that three things determine the value of lands: location, location, location.
Finn.
Quote from: Carna on November 01, 2011, 05:02:12 PM
On the case of Eston, if they're still playing as smart as they were, they'd try turn them against Darka. "How about your old Duchy back? And why not wait for Darka to be off fighting Tara before we move in and help you take it, eh?"
And it's not like Kerwin's very first war as a Marshal saw the brutal invasion and takeover of the Massillion Duchy, the deposition of its Duke, whom Kerwin looked up to very much, and the pillage of his home region of Nazamroth, or anything.... :-X
I don't care what anyone else says. Leaving Colonies and heading to Atamara was the best decision I've ever made in BM. Right now, I'm having more fun in Atamara than I am in Dwilight or FEI.
Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on November 02, 2011, 06:17:52 AM
I don't care what anyone else says. Leaving Colonies and heading to Atamara was the best decision I've ever made in BM. Right now, I'm having more fun in Atamara than I am in Dwilight or FEI.
Where are you at in Atamara?
Quote from: Vaylon Kenadell on November 02, 2011, 10:26:38 AM
Caergoth.
Helmsdale is a blast, too. It's obvious that the army was intended to come into our capital as a neutral force, then declare war, start a TO and deprive us of the walls - an easy victory for Caergoth and her city back. However, your can never trust 100% of the nobles to set their unit's to defensive.
I hate that. Such a nasty shortcoming of the diplomacy system. There are other ways to exploit that as a defender, too. I've been bitten by that before...
Hey I just noticed that CE is still around. And not only that, but Carelia seems to have lost some stuff.
Er, so how's the whole "Take down CE!" plan doing?
I would have to say not that well 8)
Quote from: Artemesia on December 04, 2011, 06:07:50 PM
Hey I just noticed that CE is still around. And not only that, but Carelia seems to have lost some stuff.
Er, so how's the whole "Take down CE!" plan doing?
Sucks, man.
It really freaking sucks!
Is this thing still going? How's it looking? Anything big happen in Atamara recently?
Carelia has been defeated. Caergoth is busy with Helmsdale, but getting nowhere. CE is turning north toward the Darka/Eston front. The northerners have been making progress on the east side, but it is slow going.
Basically the North is probably about to get really effed up.
Quote from: Perth on January 20, 2012, 07:42:12 AM
Basically the North is probably about to get really effed up.
Join me and we can destroy Darka as father and son!
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 20, 2012, 08:49:50 AM
Join me and we can destroy Darka as father and son!
As much as this war has made Kerwin despise Darka, it's a tempting offer, son.
Quote from: Perth on January 20, 2012, 09:02:59 AM
As much as this war has made Kerwin despise Darka, it's a tempting offer, son.
The feeling of despise is mutual, I'm sure :P
Quote from: LilWolf on January 20, 2012, 11:41:20 AM
The feeling of despise is mutual, I'm sure :P
I'm sure.
Woohoo! Darka v. Eston, Round 2!
... Hawthorne would make a nice East Darka.
That would really be interesting.....
Quote from: Indirik on January 20, 2012, 04:12:52 PM
Woohoo! Darka v. Eston, Round 2!
... Hawthorne would make a nice East Darka.
The sad thing is I think Darka would be much more willing to attack Eston, it's ally, than Talerium who is on the opposing side of the war. ::)
The sad thing is I think Eston would be much more willing to attack Darka, it's ally, than Coria who is on the opposing side of the war.
A major duchy just left Caergoth. The realm is finished, mainly because of incompetent leadership.
Abington anyone?
I wasn't around for that show, but with Riverholm under its belt Suville pretty much occupies the same area, no?
Yep. The exact same borders as Abington.
Let the currying of favor begin.
Quote from: Geronus on January 20, 2012, 08:04:21 PM
Let the currying of favor begin.
Why? Abington 2.0 has already won Atamara. (CE)
We already had an Abington II (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Abington_the_2nd). We're up to Abington III.
Quote from: Geronus on January 20, 2012, 08:04:21 PM
Let the currying of favor begin.
I would appreciate it more if you just curried my chicken, or lamb.
Quote from: Indirik on January 20, 2012, 06:44:08 PM
The sad thing is I think Eston would be much more willing to attack Darka, it's ally, than Coria who is on the opposing side of the war.
Maybe. (Okay, yes.)
But then again, Coria never back-stabbed us and stole an entire duchy. ;)
No, but they made Eston look like a fool, and punked the entire northern alliance.
Quote from: Indirik on January 21, 2012, 03:50:08 AM
No, but they made Eston look like a fool, and punked the entire northern alliance.
No, we punked the entire northern alliance (except Eston). And never really made Eston look like a fool, but we did protect them from an attack by Carelia...
Viewpoints, obviously, vary. So far as I am aware, the only people that don't think the treaty made Eston look bad are Eston, and the Corians that sold it to them. And everyone knows you can't trust a salesman to be honest about the goods they're selling.
Quote from: Indirik on January 21, 2012, 04:03:34 AM
Viewpoints, obviously, vary. So far as I am aware, the only people that don't think the treaty made Eston look bad are Eston, and the Corians that sold it to them. And everyone knows you can't trust a salesman to be honest about the goods they're selling.
But everyone knows Duke Merlin is as honest as they come...
(I wonder if I can keep a straight face going with this one)
Eston has consistently demonstrated that they care mostly only about their own interests; that's what the treaty with Coria was all about, and I *dare* anyone to claim otherwise.
You can complain about Darka's relationship with Talerium all you want, but that was a known fact before the war even *started*. Eston pulled the rug out from its own allies mid-conflict so that it could cover its own ass. They basically started hedging against us all losing before it even really got until full swing.
Quote from: Geronus on January 22, 2012, 01:51:54 AM
Eston has consistently demonstrated that they care mostly only about their own interests; that's what the treaty with Coria was all about, and I *dare* anyone to claim otherwise.
You can complain about Darka's relationship with Talerium all you want, but that was a known fact before the war even *started*. Eston pulled the rug out from its own allies mid-conflict so that it could cover its own ass. They basically started hedging against us all losing before it even really got until full swing.
Yep.
But Darka has been the exact same way. They've demonstrated they care little for anything except what directly effects or benefits them.
You're right. Eston doesn't care much for Darka. Darka backstabbed us and stole an entire duchy, what do you expect? Eston to be all lovey dovey toward you?
Thus is the problem with the northern alliance. It's a bunch of realms who don't traditionally get along, but are now allies of convenience.
Quote from: Perth on January 22, 2012, 09:30:54 AM
Thus is the problem with the northern alliance. It's a bunch of realms who don't traditionally get along, but are now allies of convenience.
Only without the part where they actually work together for any appreciable length of time. That being the definition of "ally", and all.
Quote from: Perth on January 22, 2012, 09:30:54 AM
Yep.
But Darka has been the exact same way. They've demonstrated they care little for anything except what directly effects or benefits them.
You're right. Eston doesn't care much for Darka. Darka backstabbed us and stole an entire duchy, what do you expect? Eston to be all lovey dovey toward you?
Thus is the problem with the northern alliance. It's a bunch of realms who don't traditionally get along, but are now allies of convenience.
I don't have a character in Darka, but damned if I don't like them better than Eston by now ;D
At least Darka was going out to the front lines to do their fighting.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on January 22, 2012, 11:22:12 PM
At least Darka was going out to the front lines to do their fighting.
Uh... and Eston wasn't?
What the heck do you think we've been doing? Sitting around and playing with the grass?
We've been on a constant back and forth with Talerium and the Cagilan Empire for months now. We've successfully INVADED enemy territory and also had to deal with enemy invasions of our land. The front lines are IN ESTON.
I don't where the heck you get off thinking Eston hasn't been "on the front lines"
I have to agree with Perth on this one. Eston has just been fighting on a different front than Darka.
Quote from: Indirik on January 23, 2012, 02:10:48 AM
I have to agree with Perth on this one. Eston has just been fighting on a different front than Darka.
Yeah, I mean both Darka and Eston have been fighting plenty. I've never said Darka wasn't fighting. They might not have been fighting WHERE I wanted them to (and vice-versa) but I wouldn't ever say they haven't been fighting.
Hoh, IF Darka would just wanted to benefit from this war, it would have attacked Talerium or Eston.
Both realms are important to Darka, thus is the reason why they have been trying to stay away from their conflict as much it has been possible... Sure there are Darkans who shout "Off with their heads!" which ever realm name is mentioned.
But tbh, relations with both, Eston & Talerium are kind of uneasy, mainly cause Eston dont like us to stay away from Talerium and Talerium cause they face Darkan army when they enter to Eston.
But, iḿ sure unless something dramatic happens, both "allies" will stay...
-Jaune
Treaty of Strombran (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Cagilan_Empire/Treaty_of_Strombran)
Oh man, just saw the treaty Carelia signed with CE. Feels wrong for Serpaentists to have a question mark over them because of Nathan. Not our fault he turned out to be Leta's greatest sycophant. An exception rather than the rule, truly.
I love how Leta's initial populist justification for war - CE's alleged pronouncements against Magna Serpaensism and wish to 'dominate' Carelia - have not only come to pass, but have now come at an additional cost of two thirds of Carelia! Fair play, it was a bold gambit and maybe people should make more of them to shake things up a bit, but I still can't believe how Carelia started that war with her eyes wide open.
Now that it's over though, anyone in the know want to tell me whether all that going on with CE was actually real? Was Carelia about to get done over in a three way between Caergoth, Suville and CE before Leta promised Caergoth/Suville the earth or where those just manufactured fears? Malice will never believe Leta was right in a million years IC, but I'd love to know OOC whether Leta was justified or not!
Yes. Yes, she was.
Justified? Well...depends on perspective.
From CE's perspective of course, no one taking power from them is justified no matter the reason. And since the winners write the history books (as that treaty shows) CE will always be right.
Any history that CE would write would be an IC history. Revan was asking for an OOC viewpoint. The OOC fact is that, yes, CE did threaten to become involved in the southerner's war, if Carelia didn't stop the war. "End it now, or we'll step in and end it for you, and you won't like it", to paraphrase things. Carelia was politically adept enough to use that threat of meddling to turn Suville and Caergoth to her side, and start the war. Unfortunately the southerners weren't up to it militarily. (I've heard several different viewpoints on what went wrong. I have no idea which one is right. Maybe all of them?)
Now, whether that makes for valid IC justification, I have no idea. I'm not familiar with the exact details of the situation as it existed before the war started. Bedwyr could probably answer it better than I, as he was there in Carelia at the time.
Quote from: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 01:45:03 PM
Yes. Yes, she was.
Liar, liar, pants on fire.
Since this is an OOC forum, and not the Indirik family's personal IC propaganda machine, I'll just go ahead and confirm, OOCly, that CE had NO plans to attack Carelia. CE is not so arrogant to plan for a two front war, and its target was the northern realms. CE was already mobilizing against Eston before Talerium declared war on Eston, when Carelia stabbed CE in the back.
If anything, CE was hoping that Carelia and Caergoth-Suville would stop fighting, so that the entire south would unite and finally crush the uppity northerners. CE was saber-rattling at Caergoth-Suville to try to pressure them to sign a peace deal with Carelia, because its leaders were worried that Carelia seemed to be losing. Yes, CE was playing the part of a bully, but it was a bully
on behalf of Carelia. Those in the know in Caergoth and Suville can confirm this.
So, yeah, CE left itself right open on the diplomatic front, exerting pressure on Caergoth-Suville right when the northern realms were painting CE as a bully, and Carelia was promising two duchies to Caergoth-Suville in exchange for ripping two duchies out of CE. CE was trying to help exactly the realm that was trying hardest to destroy it.
That's why there was so much outrage when Carelia jumped on the anti-CE bandwagon. There was definitely a sense of betrayal there.
CE's nobles hated Magna Serpaensism due to their experiences fighting Falasan, but there was an uneasy ceasefire after they fled to Carelia. I'd like to note that CE did not do anything while more and more Serpaensist lords were appointed in Carelia, but you can bet that CE was keeping tabs on you. Nathan just threw a torch into the tinder-box that is anti-MS sentiment.
Quote from: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 07:36:44 PM
"End it now, or we'll step in and end it for you, and you won't like it",
That's pretty much what Famine said, except he said it to the leaders of Caergoth and Suville.
Kind of an important difference. ;)
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 07, 2012, 07:38:06 PMIf anything, CE was hoping that Carelia and Caergoth-Suville would stop fighting, so that the entire south would unite and finally crush the uppity northerners. CE was saber-rattling at Caergoth-Suville to try to pressure them to sign a peace deal with Carelia, because its leaders were worried that Carelia seemed to be losing. Yes, CE was playing the part of a bully, but it was a bully on behalf of Carelia. Those in the know in Caergoth and Suville can confirm this.
... which is pretty much what I said. CE was interfering in southern politics. Which you have so kindly detailed for us. Thanks for proving the point so nicely for me.
Now, apparently I had it backward on who's side CE was stepping in. (Not surprising since I wasn't actually down in Carelia.) It actually makes more sense the way you tell it. Carelia used CE's threatened military intervention (which is what saber-rattling is, even if you secretly have no intention of acting on it) to rally Caergoth and Suville to war against CE. ... because CE was threatening to interfere in the southern war.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 07, 2012, 07:39:28 PMKind of an important difference. ;)
It makes more sense that it would be against Caergoth and Suville. But overall, it really makes no difference. Carelia's rallying point for the war was not "CE is going to destroy Carelia", it was "CE is meddling in our affairs, let's show them we won't stand for it."
Quote from: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 07:47:38 PM
It makes more sense that it would be against Caergoth and Suville. But overall, it really makes no difference. Carelia's rallying point for the war was not "CE is going to destroy Carelia", it was "CE is meddling in our affairs, let's show them we won't stand for it."
I thought that was Leta's justification as well... Except that's not what Revan just said. He explicitly said that Leta's justification was "CE is going to gang up on us with Caergoth and Suville. Let's get them before they get us."
So before Revan said anything, I would have agreed with you. Now that he shared that bit of information, which side CE was bullying for becomes important, because it's the difference between Leta telling the truth and lying.
Quote from: Revan on February 07, 2012, 01:43:09 PM
Now that it's over though, anyone in the know want to tell me whether all that going on with CE was actually real? Was Carelia about to get done over in a three way between Caergoth, Suville and CE before Leta promised Caergoth/Suville the earth or where those just manufactured fears? Malice will never believe Leta was right in a million years IC, but I'd love to know OOC whether Leta was justified or not!
So, in other words, no, no she was not.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 07, 2012, 08:06:13 PMI thought that was Leta's justification as well... Except that's not what Revan just said. He explicitly said that Leta's justification was "CE is going to gang up on us with Caergoth and Suville. Let's get them before they get us."
Rereading what he posted, I see what you mean. But that doesn't make any sense. It doesn't match anything I've ever heard before, including straight from the players of the Kindon and Bedwyr families. Something's not making sense here.
What doesn't make sense is that if Leta was saying "CE is meddling in our affairs... let's go get them" why would they?
If the threats would have worked they would have won the war with Caergoth and Suville... Why would they throw that away and gamble on taking out the CE? TBH I believe it was a lot of ooc garbage going on and they paid the price for it.
Quote from: Revan on February 07, 2012, 01:43:09 PM
I love how Leta's initial populist justification for war - CE's alleged pronouncements against Magna Serpaensism and wish to 'dominate' Carelia - have not only come to pass, but have now come at an additional cost of two thirds of Carelia!
That wasn't exactly false, but it's been spun beyond recognition. CE certainly made it clear to Queen Leta, and King Bartho before her, that it did not like the fact that the Serpaensists given shelter in Carelia were appointed to lordships, and then a third of the lords were Serpaensists, and then almost half of the lords of Carelia were Serpaensists. This was going to drive a wedge between CE and Carelia sooner or later. But CE also made it clear that it was not going to attack Carelia over the issue, as evidenced by the fact that CE never did declare war on Carelia.
If telling your ally what you like and don't like is "domination", then maybe realms should just stop talking to each other entirely.
Quote from: Indirik on February 07, 2012, 08:17:20 PM
Rereading what he posted, I see what you mean. But that doesn't make any sense. It doesn't match anything I've ever heard before, including straight from the players of the Kindon and Bedwyr families. Something's not making sense here.
Fair point. I am wondering how the plan got sold to Carelia's nobles. So you take two duchies away from one of your neighbors, and then give away two of your own duchies? That's a net gain of, err, zero duchies. All risk for no gain. ... Unless the plan was to take Skalk, Nida, and then keep going?
Was there a war plan beyond "down with CE!"?
Quote from: Forbes Family on February 07, 2012, 09:38:17 PMIf the threats would have worked they would have won the war with Caergoth and Suville... Why would they throw that away and gamble on taking out the CE?
That's short-term thinking. If you only consider the "now", then perhaps that viewpoint would work. It falls apart, though, as soon as you get past "today" and start looking at what happens "next week". I can think of several reasons why Carelia chose the path they did. (Keep in mind I'm trying to think of this IC from Carelia's position.)
- If Carelia goes along with CE and lets CE's bullying stand, then sure they "win" the current war. You are correct in that. But they also get a pissed off Caergoth/Suville for neighbors. And as soon as CE's back is turned, as everyone knew was about to happen because CE was marching north, Caergoth/Suville would almost certainly just resume the war. But this time big brother CE is busy, and can't come to Carelia's rescue. But this time their enemies are also bitter about having been strong-armed in the past. This time it will be even worse for Carelia.
- If Carelia lets CE force the peace, and it does hold, then what does Carelia do? A looooooong period of boring, enforced peace. That's really sure to be exciting. March to CE's aid to fight the northerners? What if they don't want to fight the northerners? And besides, they still have to worry about those shifty former-Abingtonians who might move to attack them any day now!
- Carelia almost certainly did not want to be seen as the newest "CE buffer realm". (Speaking strictly from an IC viewpoint, here, not making accusations...) By allowing CE to enforce the peace for them, Carelia appears to be in CE's pocket. Which the leaders of Carelia apparently did not want to be. I mean, who wants to be a lackey who survives only at the sufferance of a big brother?
- Organizing the movement against CE turns your former enemies into your allies. Now you have more friends, instead of mroe enemies.
- If it had worked, then Carelia comes out of it even stronger. Their new allies in Suville are stronger because of the land that Carelia gives them. (And are stronger allies for because of the new shared experiences of having worked together.) Carelia is stronger because of the new land they take from CE. CE, the realm that has tried to meddle in their affairs, is now weaker, and less capable of meddling in their affairs again in the future. Overall, Carelia comes out of it a bit stronger in absolute terms, and much stronger in relative terms, as well as more influential for having engineered the downfall of CE.
Sure it was a risk, and in the end it didn't pay off. But if you want to be big, you to think big, and play big.
Was there an OOC consideration for the war? Maybe. Who wouldn't want to be the one to arrange the war that takes down the biggest, most successful empire in the game? It makes a great story. But if you're thinking that it was an OOC dislike of CE that drove the war, then perhaps what you're really seeing is an IC hatred that you're projecting onto the player.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 07, 2012, 10:01:04 PMFair point. I am wondering how the plan got sold to Carelia's nobles. So you take two duchies away from one of your neighbors, and then give away two of your own duchies? That's a net gain of, err, zero duchies. All risk for no gain. ...
If you reduce the strength of your enemy while holding your own strength steady, then you have greatly increased your relative strength compared to your enemy's. In the most basic terms: 5 CE duchies vs. 4 Carelia duchies means CE is stronger. 3 CE duchies vs. 4 Carelia duchies means Carelia is stronger, even though Carelia still has only 4 duchies.
QuoteUnless the plan was to take Skalk, Nida, and then keep going? ]Was there a war plan beyond "down with CE!"?
Dunno. I suppose if we had managed to actually accomplish the "down with CE" part, we would have decided what to do from there :D
For what it's worth, how it seemed to go down IC:
Leta and her council were ambitious. They thought it a mistake to continue war in the south and threaten to expand already indefensibly lengthy frontiers - Carelia needed to consolidate. What's more, they found CE's friendship oppressive and genuinely believed that the southern realms ought to be united against a greater evil. They genuinely believed with CE's troubles up north, there was a historic opportunity to refashion the continent. Carelia had the chance to challenge or even usurp CE's strength and hegemony in Atamara by making a gambit for Skalk, Nida and - let's face it - Stargard.
There was already a lobby within Carelia that found CE influence objectionable and resented her ownership of Nida. Many did not think CE that great a friend. Meanwhile, a crisis seemed to loom. It was revealed (alleged?) that CE would support Carelia against the southern realms only if the Serpaentist lords were made to step down from their positions. The implication was made that non-compliance could/would lead to CE hostility. A fairly biased referendum asked whether to accept CE meddling in Carelian internal affairs and to abandon Carelian freedoms or to preserve those freedoms and resist hostile influences.
At some point, but a while after peace had first been made with Caergoth/Suville, the exact terms of the agreed treaty were revealed. There was some uproar about selling cities for war aid and trusting realms so easily prone to switching sides but, crucially, the affected Dukes were content in the knowledge they'd be re-situated to the duchies we acquired in war. The terms of the treaty seemed to express a confidence that Carelia would be successful in the immediate to short-term. At all times there seemed to be 100% belief that the coming war was not only just, but winnable. Likewise, that Caergoth and Suville would prove to be worthy and stalwart allies.
Anyway, my lasting impression of the whole sorry saga is that a few well placed Carelians decided a long time ago that Carelia would fight CE to the death, no matter success or failure. In the end Magna Serpaensism and free religion was a bit part to simply trying to take CE down a peg or two. It's like Carelia was always betting on an eventual northern breakthrough that would finally give her the space and opportunity to succeed against CE. You wouldn't believe the pressure that Nathan came under to conclude a peace or ceasefire last summer. I actually heard shortly before I paused that whilst he claimed CE's PM refused to answer his letters on the matter, CE's PM apparently hadn't received anything at all from Nathan. That's another thing I'd love to hear a little more about! ;-)
As one of the few players with characters in Suville and (for most of her life) in Carelia I can confirm the letters sent to Suville on the subject of the First Suvillian Crusade against the Serpaenists in Carelia, the Southern War of Aggression against the Empire and finally the Rout of Carelia (or the War for Wayburg).
ICly - if you're going to offer to pay your allies, you had best make good on your offer. Carelia made a gross miscalculation if they believed that Suville would gladly bury the hatchet, the peace deal was not received well by the nobility in Suville.
Overall, abrupt leadership changes in both realms (Leta for Nathan and Aeryn for Caibre) not to mention the mess that is left of Caergoth led to a lack of continuity and direction in these wars. This was exploited to make a case for the ceasefire between Suville and CE and finally the turn of Suville against Carelia herself.
I think it would be interesting to hear Bedwyr's view on the senior goings on in Carelia as he played the opposite to my own characters.
My charecter in Carelia was quite inactive when the war was switching from a southern war to one against the Empire, but I recall what was told to the court of Carelia was basically that CE had explained Carelia would need to change their religious views, or the war in the south would begin going poorly. Given that at that time Carelia stretched from Ser'quea to Oyonniarre, the realm would've been very very vulnerable to a Tara/CE attack. What actually happened, also regarding wether or not King Nathan ever searched for peace as was demanded, is impossible to say without the relating private IC letters.
Malic de Aquitane believes the whole war was a Caergoth/Suville/Empire plot to take down the glorious land of heroes, but it seems likely to me that some sort of meddling occurred from CE side, which Leta and company then tried to use to get Carelia into a better geopolitical position (It's troublesome being the only realm with a border with the south). After that, due to whatever reasons, the combat strength coming from the south did not match what was expected. That, and some absurd military decisions (an assault to Nida with 10 h travel time and almost even strength comes to mind..) lead to a halt in progress.
Was a fun war, I expect Carelia will be bitter to the realms around it for quite a while (the rest of its life).
Which is so obvious to anyone with half a brain that I would be very surprised if Carelia survives for long after this war ends, barring any changes from the current status quo of the war. I predict that it will go the way of Falasan, and ASI (you'll have to pardon me if the comparisons are bad, I was relatively uninvolved in AT when those events actually occurred). Some reason will be contrived to put the realm out of its misery.
That assessment is contingent on the South staying out of the rest of the war though, which is by no means certain.
Quote from: Geronus on February 08, 2012, 11:30:00 PM
Which is so obvious to anyone with half a brain that I would be very surprised if Carelia survives for long after this war ends, barring any changes from the current status quo of the war. I predict that it will go the way of Falasan, and ASI (you'll have to pardon me if the comparisons are bad, I was relatively uninvolved in AT when those events actually occurred). Some reason will be contrived to put the realm out of its misery.
That assessment is contingent on the South staying out of the rest of the war though, which is by no means certain.
The Falasan comparison seems apt to me. Falasan was left with one duchy at the end of the war with Tara/CE and a CE colony in its largest city prior to the war. Once Coria was firmly established it was only a matter of time before a reason was found to get rid of what was left of Falasan.
It seems to me that Carelia's leadership sold a risky gamble to their realm-mates as an easy land-grab. So this was either gross negligence on their part, or they never cared about Carelia's welfare in the first place. The last King of Carelia that had its best interests at heart was probably King Bartho, if you ask me.
After signing a ceasefire treaty, Falasan started fielding troops on aggressive settings in order to help their allies again. So they had to be put down. I say "put down" because humans can read treaties and can generally be expected to follow them when their neck is on the line. It was CE's fault for mistaking the rabbits for humans. ::)
So Carelia should be fine, at long as they don't ally with the northern realms and start showing up for battles. Probably. Suville might still decide to gank them. CE has bigger fish to fry.
biased reporting above, please steer clear. *waves baton*
Quote from: de Aquitane on February 08, 2012, 09:39:37 PM
My charecter in Carelia was quite inactive when the war was switching from a southern war to one against the Empire.
Same happened to me, i was the laziest duchess on Atamara, only logged in 1 day in the week to stay active and check on the food. I remember i mobilized once to fight Suville but later got busy at work.
Now the (Censored) crowned me and i have to log in daily.....sighs i miss the old "quickplay" days.
But now that CE is not busy with Carelia, you might as well say that this war is over.
To quote the immortal Yogi Berra, "It ain't over 'till it's over." ;D
This is the first forum post I've made since Core was abandoned, since I could bother trying to remember the password I once used, although I've now reset it.
But I'd agree. Saying that the War is pretty much over would be extremely foolish. The North once said that and the Central Alliance came back into the fight strongly.
The Northern realms are still extremely dangerous and far from beaten. It's been a fairly even fight. Their larger numbers against our quicker refit times, but there has been seemingly frustrating agreements on both sides ... Eston/Coria, Talerium/Darka and Tara/Hammarsett. But that's War I suppose! Whilst not as scared as I once was, I still don't feel very confident in Coria's position and things could certainly change for the worse, although the CE reinforcements will help a LOT.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 09, 2012, 09:34:18 AM
It seems to me that Carelia's leadership sold a risky gamble to their realm-mates as an easy land-grab. So this was either gross negligence on their part, or they never cared about Carelia's welfare in the first place. The last King of Carelia that had its best interests at heart was probably King Bartho, if you ask me.
No. It wasn't sold as an easy land-grab. It was sold as a a risky gamble that could pay off big, the war with Suville and Caergoth wasn't going well anyway, and the CE was trying to dictate terms. Did it work? No. But that doesn't mean it was an insane idea.
That said, Malcolm never cared in the slightest about Carelia except as a means to an end. The negotiations he was conducting almost resulted in him becoming the southern-aligned Duke of Wayburg, but then he had to go and fall for Leta...Annoying, that. I've wanted Wayburg for a while.
Bartho was the one who, incidentally, arranged the war with Caergoth OOC. That was confirmed after the CE war started and discussions were had on what prompted the Caergoth/Carelia war in the first place. What makes that particularly asinine is that there were plenty of good IC reasons for it...They just chose not to use them.
Quote from: Bedwyr on February 10, 2012, 06:20:38 AM
Bartho was the one who, incidentally, arranged the war with Caergoth OOC. That was confirmed after the CE war started and discussions were had on what prompted the Caergoth/Carelia war in the first place. What makes that particularly asinine is that there were plenty of good IC reasons for it...They just chose not to use them.
Caergoth declared war on Carelia, I think.
Big ole' battle on the western front up in Nazamroth.
Yar, south seems to be brewing again.
This is kind of very nice war, even thought it has lasted damn long.. and looks like it wont end anytime soon.
Ofcourse if south could have pulled things better together from the start it would have been awesome... but lets hope they will unite their forces against EVIL Empire and its minions!
Fight for yer freedom! :P
Kind Regards: Good side!
You mean the freedom to get your sandcastle kicked over again and again?
Quote from: jaune on February 27, 2012, 03:25:15 PM
Kind Regards: Good side!
Well, CE has all the cookies, so I guess that does make us evil? :o ;D
CE dont have Blood Cookies!
:)
Quote from: Bedwyr on February 10, 2012, 06:20:38 AM
Bartho was the one who, incidentally, arranged the war with Caergoth OOC. That was confirmed after the CE war started and discussions were had on what prompted the Caergoth/Carelia war in the first place. What makes that particularly asinine is that there were plenty of good IC reasons for it...They just chose not to use them.
Caergoth pushed long and hard the IC reasons for war with Carelia. The only thing I arranged OOC was an understanding that neither side wanted another 5-on-1 dogpile like what MI had just suffered. TMP was still active and we knew that CE would be looking for another low-risk war they could parachute into (and whaddya know, we were right!).
Heh, this smells like something personal :D It was good battle... even thought i got a bit hurt up there...
QuoteRoyal Cavalry [KK] (87) take 3119 hits (2938 in close combat, 181 from archer fire), which cause 55 casualties, wiping the unit out.
Kostaja Kosunen Cosula, King of Darka has been wounded by Sigrdrífa's Soldiers (34
-Jaune
Hey, that's my wife's unit. She didn't tell me she got a piece of Kostaja! :D
This has got to be the most boring Continent-wide war ever.
I'm not sure it is any more fun or interesting than the awful continent-wide peace!
Quote from: Perth on April 10, 2012, 08:46:37 AM
This has got to be the most boring Continent-wide war ever.
I'm not sure it is any more fun or interesting than the awful continent-wide peace!
Tell your allies to back off. We didn't want it to be a continent wide war anyway. Only problem is that if someone is having a war, other ppl want to do something and ruin it for the rest of those that are having fun.
Quote from: Perth on April 10, 2012, 08:46:37 AM
This has got to be the most boring Continent-wide war ever.
I'm not sure it is any more fun or interesting than the awful continent-wide peace!
Heh, no it isnt... just make things happen :) It is boring, if you make it boring... it is fun, if you make it fun!
Quote from: Perth on April 10, 2012, 08:46:37 AM
This has got to be the most boring Continent-wide war ever.
I'm not sure it is any more fun or interesting than the awful continent-wide peace!
Well, you're the guys who have been dead set on focusing on that one border for the entire war. Come on, admit it, things were more interesting when we were all burning Coria to the ground together ;D
I'm all for that. This last trip through Ser'quea was interesting, but too fast for any serious looting.
Quote from: Geronus on April 10, 2012, 02:21:28 PM
Well, you're the guys who have been dead set on focusing on that one border for the entire war. Come on, admit it, things were more interesting when we were all burning Coria to the ground together ;D
I don't like the sound of that.
Quote from: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 02:23:55 PM
I'm all for that. This last trip through Ser'quea was interesting, but too fast for any serious looting.
I really do hope that you fancy another trip to Tara as they appear to want to get involved with Suville.
Well, good. Tara needs someone their own size to dance with. Leave those poor Hammarpeeps alone.
Quote from: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 06:39:39 PM
Well, good. Tara needs someone their own size to dance with. Leave those poor Hammarpeeps alone.
You do realize if y'all just let Hammarsett deal with what they wanted on their own, it'd just be Coria v Hammarsett right?
No no no... that's not what I said at all. I didn't say anything at all about leaving Hammarpeeps to stand on their own. I just said that Tara needed to go play elsewhere.
Quote from: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 06:46:17 PM
No no no... that's not what I said at all. I didn't say anything at all about leaving Hammarpeeps to stand on their own. I just said that Tara needed to go play elsewhere.
Ahh okay. So unfair matchups are okay only so long as its not *YOUR* ally getting ganged up on.
At least we're clear.
Well, yeah. Isn't that how war is supposed to work? ;)
Quote from: Indirik on April 10, 2012, 07:01:15 PM
Well, yeah. Isn't that how war is supposed to work? ;)
Okay, well as long as we're clear.
Let Atamara vs Darka begin!!!
Win!
Quote from: Perth on April 10, 2012, 08:46:37 AM
This has got to be the most boring Continent-wide war ever.
I'm not sure it is any more fun or interesting than the awful continent-wide peace!
People complain when there aren't any wars, and then complain when there are wars.
Eesh.
This one's more like a cold war, though. We got Two Minutes to Midnight blasting 24/7 in Cantril. Peasants just hate Slayer.
Quote from: Marlboro on April 11, 2012, 01:58:27 AM
This one's more like a cold war, though. We got Two Minutes to Midnight blasting 24/7 in Cantril. Peasants just hate Slayer.
In the South-east its not really a cold war.
Quote from: Penchant on April 11, 2012, 02:04:59 AM
In the South-east its not really a cold war.
What would a cold war be without proxy skirmishes?
I really don't follow the current war, just doing courtier work, but hasn't there been battles in the NE?
Quote from: Perth on April 10, 2012, 08:46:37 AM
This has got to be the most boring Continent-wide war ever.
I'm not sure it is any more fun or interesting than the awful continent-wide peace!
But there is a whole bunch of Talerium and Cagilan knights waiting for you right next door in Cantril. They're bored too. Come over and play! ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on April 11, 2012, 03:45:07 AM
But there is a whole bunch of Talerium and Cagilan knights waiting for you right next door in Cantril. They're bored too. Come over and play! ;D
I agree. Attack CE/Talerium !
Quote from: Chénier on April 11, 2012, 02:44:59 AM
I really don't follow the current war, just doing courtier work, but hasn't there been battles in the NE?
Few and far between. And when there is, little is accomplished.
Quote from: Perth on April 11, 2012, 05:53:48 AM
Few and far between. And when there is, little is accomplished.
Northeast, not northwest!
We fight from time to time, though we spend more time taking turns looting and TOing each other's regions. When there is a battle it's usually pretty big, and usually involves at least five realms. I'm perfectly happy with the war, though I'd be more happy if we were winning. Not that we're exactly losing either, but you know. There's plenty to do and it's far from boring because unlike certain people who are complaining, we decided to take the some risks and give up our cozy little arrangements with the enemy that kept us safe but also horribly bored ;)
Quote from: Geronus on April 11, 2012, 05:59:26 AM
Northeast, not northwest!
I heard there are Cookie stores over there, we should go and take a look.
peace!
Quote from: Geronus on April 11, 2012, 05:59:26 AM
Northeast, not northwest!
Oops! My bad. And yeah, definitely more fighting over there.
Quote from: Geronus on April 11, 2012, 05:59:26 AM
because unlike certain people who are complaining, we decided to take the some risks and give up our cozy little arrangements with the enemy that kept us safe but also horribly bored ;)
Umm... who exactly is "we?"
If you're in Darka, don't even give me that.
Oh I bet the Darkans are having fun. They're doing a good job with the raiding too. I have never fought another opponent that's harder to encircle or interdict. You don't even see movement until 2 to 3 hours after turn change, so good luck intercepting them. *shakes fist at the Darkans* >:(
That offer to visit Cantril is still open. I promise that we won't defend our entrenchments very hard. In fact, I believe Estonite troops would be greeted as liberators. ;D
We had our fun at Taran lands, but to be honest, we were even too agile to our self and slowly our army wore off by laggers...
And since we were chased we didnt have much time to do actual damage... but it was fun.
It would be fun to charge towards Cantril, and even beyond it towards to Eaglin, but i have made a promise not to get there to our friends Talerium. I miss the days that Eaglin was refit spot to Darkan army, mayby some day it will be again so :)
Quote from: GoldPanda on April 11, 2012, 10:59:02 AM
That offer to visit Cantril is still open. I promise that we won't defend our entrenchments very hard. In fact, I believe Estonite troops would be greeted as liberators. ;D
I would, man. But I only go to parties if my wing-man comes along with me; ya know, help me score. But, my wing-man Darka, is being a total douche about goin' to the Cantril party. I'm all like 'dude, gonna be hot cagilans there!' and he's all like 'nah brah, I heard those dweeb talermites gunna be all up in that place, not cool.' So, yeah, we're stuck here chillin at Nazamroth's drinkin slushies and tryin to get somebody to go inside the station and buy us some cigarettes. Sucks big ones, brah.
Just shake a hand with Talerium and come to world tour with Darka!
Wouldnt it be nice, first Barad Falas, Tarasac, Tucha, Aja...
-Jaune
Quote from: Perth on April 11, 2012, 07:54:41 AM
Umm... who exactly is "we?"
If you're in Darka, don't even give me that.
Pfff, they're almost as bad as you guys. But not quite. But then I'm biased by the fact that Eston was so completely willing to sell us down the river to make nice with Coria.
I play in Hammarsett. We threw caution to the wind a while back and declared war on all the people that, you know, we were fighting anyway. All these wars that aren't wars and cozy little deals on the side are complete bullpuckey. Grow some balls and take some risks, people, especially if you're going to complain about being bored...
Quote from: Geronus on April 11, 2012, 03:59:40 PM
Pfff, they're almost as bad as you guys. But not quite. But then I'm biased by the fact that Eston was so completely willing to sell us down the river to make nice with Coria.
I play in Hammarsett. We threw caution to the wind a while back and declared war on all the people that, you know, we were fighting anyway. All these wars that aren't wars and cozy little deals on the side are complete bullpuckey. Grow some balls and take some risks, people, especially if you're going to complain about being bored...
"I play Hammarsett. We like losing wars, and making enemies we can't fight on our own. These people that are beating us are all cowards anyway, but if we lose its not our fault."
Sorry, that's just what I read from that. And don't be mean to Eston, they're so friendly...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 11, 2012, 05:43:43 PM
"I play Hammarsett. We like losing wars, and making enemies we can't fight on our own. These people that are beating us are all cowards anyway, but if we lose its not our fault."
Sorry, that's just what I read from that. And don't be mean to Eston, they're so friendly...
Meh. Better to have fun than to win.
Quote from: Lorgan on April 11, 2012, 06:12:09 PM
Meh. Better to have fun than to win.
That's a sentiment I can agree with. Although nothing excludes the winners from having fun.
Quote from: Geronus on April 11, 2012, 03:59:40 PM
Pfff, they're almost as bad as you guys. But not quite. But then I'm biased by the fact that Eston was so completely willing to sell us down the river to make nice with Coria.
I play in Hammarsett. We threw caution to the wind a while back and declared war on all the people that, you know, we were fighting anyway. All these wars that aren't wars and cozy little deals on the side are complete bullpuckey. Grow some balls and take some risks, people, especially if you're going to complain about being bored...
Wait, so you want people to break the long existing power blocks and take risks, but when Eston does exactly that--makes friends with Coria, and angers her long standing allies in the north--all of a sudden we don't have balls and don't take risks? And are "almost as bad a Darka?" Hell, I risked the whole damn Northern Alliance falling apart or coming down on top of me to sign a separate peace and make friends with Coria. THAT is taking bold risks.
Sorry you don't LIKE the risks Eston has taken, and sorry they have lead to things not working out how you want them to, but Eston has certainly taken more "risk" than any other Northern realm when it comes to breaking established power blocks.
Quote from: Perth on April 11, 2012, 09:41:52 PM
Wait, so you want people to break the long existing power blocks and take risks, but when Eston does exactly that--makes friends with Coria, and angers her long standing allies in the north--all of a sudden we don't have balls and don't take risks? And are "almost as bad a Darka?" Hell, I risked the whole damn Northern Alliance falling apart or coming down on top of me to sign a separate peace and make friends with Coria. THAT is taking bold risks.
Sorry you don't LIKE the risks Eston has taken, and sorry they have lead to things not working out how you want them to, but Eston has certainly taken more "risk" than any other Northern realm when it comes to breaking established power blocks.
I think he meant in the "promote fun"-kind of way. Not in the "we're scared we're going to lose everything so we'll make friends with one of our enemies"-kind of way.
Quote from: GoldPanda on April 11, 2012, 10:59:02 AM
Oh I bet the Darkans are having fun. They're doing a good job with the raiding too. I have never fought another opponent that's harder to encircle or interdict. You don't even see movement until 2 to 3 hours after turn change, so good luck intercepting them. *shakes fist at the Darkans* >:(
That offer to visit Cantril is still open. I promise that we won't defend our entrenchments very hard. In fact, I believe Estonite troops would be greeted as liberators. ;D
We're jealous of your freedom, Darka!
Quote from: Perth on April 11, 2012, 11:10:18 AM... my wing-man Darka, is being a total douche ...
Don't you
dare make me break out Silly Songs with Eston...
Quote from: jaune on February 27, 2012, 03:25:15 PM
Yar, south seems to be brewing again.
This is kind of very nice war, even thought it has lasted damn long.. and looks like it wont end anytime soon.
Ofcourse if south could have pulled things better together from the start it would have been awesome... but lets hope they will unite their forces against EVIL Empire and its minions!
Fight for yer freedom! :P
Kind Regards: Good side!
I'm working on it mate. Hopefully soon the Southern Atamara is united and the Evil Northern and its minions will feel the pain they started. I do wonder how many realms is Northern coalition ready to sacrifice?
Quote from: Lorgan on April 11, 2012, 10:24:41 PM
I think he meant in the "promote fun"-kind of way. Not in the "we're scared we're going to lose everything so we'll make friends with one of our enemies"-kind of way.
Oh yeah, because when the Northern Alliance was trying to sack Barad Falas Eston was in major danger of "losing everything." What the heck, man?
If anything, making friends with Coria presented the possibility of both Darka and BoM turning on Eston and THEN Eston losing everything. How in the world you put together Eston pissing off all her allies as the "safe" route, as opposed to continueing a winning war against Coria, I do not know.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 11, 2012, 05:43:43 PM
"I play Hammarsett. We like losing wars, and making enemies we can't fight on our own. These people that are beating us are all cowards anyway, but if we lose its not our fault."
Sorry, that's just what I read from that. And don't be mean to Eston, they're so friendly...
If we lose I'm sure it will be our fault. Certainly declaring war on all those realms wasn't the safest choice. On the other hand, I bet we're having more fun than Eston 8)
Quote from: Perth on April 12, 2012, 01:46:00 AM
Oh yeah, because when the Northern Alliance was trying to sack Barad Falas Eston was in major danger of "losing everything." What the heck, man?
If anything, making friends with Coria presented the possibility of both Darka and BoM turning on Eston and THEN Eston losing everything. How in the world you put together Eston pissing off all her allies as the "safe" route, as opposed to continueing a winning war against Coria, I do not know.
I think you're overstating the risk. Everyone was pretty invested in war with the Empire at that point, for which Eston was needed. Coria is only one front of that war. And if you really thought that Eston might be destroyed if you made a separate peace with Coria, then why did you do it? I can't see that it would make things more fun for Eston - Eston was winning a war, as you pointed out, and few things are more fun than that.
Wait, why the hell
did you do it? Either way, your complaints of boredom seem a trifle ironic now.
Quote from: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 04:16:17 AM
I think you're overstating the risk. Everyone was pretty invested in war with the Empire at that point, for which Eston was needed. Coria is only one front of that war. And if you really thought that Eston might be destroyed if you made a separate peace with Coria, then why did you do it? I can't see that it would make things more fun for Eston - Eston was winning a war, as you pointed out, and few things are more fun than that.
Wait, why the hell did you do it again? Either way, your complaints of boredom seem a trifle ironic now.
We gave him cookies....
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 12, 2012, 04:22:03 AM
We gave him cookies....
Now why didn't I think of that? Damn you and your devious baked goods.
Hey waitaminit! Darka has all the cookies!
...or is that gold... I forget.
Quote from: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 04:16:17 AM
your complaints of boredom seem a trifle ironic now.
I never said my choice to take a risk resulted in more
fun than anyone else. I was merely refuting the fact that you tried to say we refused to take any risks.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 12, 2012, 04:22:03 AM
We gave him cookies....
Oatmeal Raisin, fresh from Momma Silverfire's oven. I couldn't resist.
Quote from: Indirik on April 12, 2012, 04:25:56 AM
Hey waitaminit! Darka has all the cookies!
...or is that gold... I forget.
It's gold...Why do you think we don't stop you from looting all of our regions for gold all the time? The cookies are hidden in the capitol, and when Eston attacked it, I just gave them a small portion to appease them and leave before y'all found it.
Cookies....the brown gold of Coria.
Quote from: Perth on April 12, 2012, 01:46:00 AM
Oh yeah, because when the Northern Alliance was trying to sack Barad Falas Eston was in major danger of "losing everything." What the heck, man?
Well, sorry. The only logical way to explain your move is that you wanted to reduce your battlefront and be covered for if this war failed. And maybe you wanted to piss of/copy darka for having a treaty with Talerium but you know, none of that is very risky.
Of course maybe none of these motives played in your decision but then I wonder which ones did..
Quote from: Lorgan on April 12, 2012, 10:12:16 AM
Well, sorry. The only logical way to explain your move is that you wanted to reduce your battlefront and be covered for if this war failed. And maybe you wanted to piss of/copy darka for having a treaty with Talerium but you know, none of that is very risky.
Of course maybe none of these motives played in your decision but then I wonder which ones did..
Guys, its seriously the cookies...
In all seriousness though, I am amazed at how little people don't understand this situation or can see it from multiple viewpoints. Talerium and Darka have had a border treaty for years and years. Eston and Coria had the exact same border treaty BEFORE this war ever began. Eston's agreement with Coria was only to return to pre-war relations between our two realms.
By doing so, Eston secures their border, while forcing Coria out of the war. Eston is not to blame for Coria rejoining the war effort. (hi Hammarsett...) When that treaty was first signed, the northern alliance made a great gain in the war, and should have used it to start winning, but the only thing I saw was complaints about not being able to attack where they wanted to, and so the war stalled only because the northern alliance couldn't decide to work together.
Oh, and yes, lots of bribes of cookies.
I guess what annoyed me most back then was that there was not even discussion with us about it, we were coming to help Eston against Coria/CE/Talerium, everybody knew Darka will not go against Talerium(or atleast should have known, apparently Eston had/have high hopes that Darka would attack Talerium). But i have kind of gotten over it... now i just dont see any reason Eston to continue war with Talerium. It is just two 15-25K CS armies staring each other at Nazam/Cantril border. There could become short window for any side to have a battle they could win, but losses would be huge on both sides and advancing almost impossible.
But what can you do? Estonites are eating Corian cookies at Nazamroth with some Darkans who are yawning their jaws off...
Ofcourse if there would be another King at Darka, who would not be such old and stubborn fart as KK is, there could be chanche that Darka jumps on totally Estons sledge and rolls on Talerium. I admit, it would be good turn to our coalition and would propably force CE to focus all its strenght to help Tallies.... but for now, only over my dead body.. or smthng like that :)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 12, 2012, 10:16:41 AM
Guys, its seriously the cookies...
In all seriousness though, I am amazed at how little people don't understand this situation or can see it from multiple viewpoints. Talerium and Darka have had a border treaty for years and years. Eston and Coria had the exact same border treaty BEFORE this war ever began. Eston's agreement with Coria was only to return to pre-war relations between our two realms.
By doing so, Eston secures their border, while forcing Coria out of the war. Eston is not to blame for Coria rejoining the war effort. (hi Hammarsett...) When that treaty was first signed, the northern alliance made a great gain in the war, and should have used it to start winning, but the only thing I saw was complaints about not being able to attack where they wanted to, and so the war stalled only because the northern alliance couldn't decide to work together.
Oh, and yes, lots of bribes of cookies.
I disagree, and not purely because of Hammarsett's ulterior motives.
If it was such a great victory, why did the Northern Alliance become so ineffective after the peace was signed? We played together just fine afterward. BoM and Hammarsett didn't waste time pouting. We voiced our opinions and then sent armies west, and did so for some time. The problem wasn't discord, it was that we were put into a terrible strategic position where there was only one fighting front that it was easier for our enemies to reinforce than for us. Every time we went west it took us a week to get there, and Tara was inevitably waiting for us every time we did because they can get there faster, with less straggling and less equipment damage. Advantage: Cagilan Empire and allies. We attempted to loot CE more than once, but never really accomplished much because Tara would just chase us down.
The present spread front is far more to our advantage, and we've done well there overall. Just imagine what we might have accomplished if that front had stayed open the entire time.
Quote from: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
I disagree, and not purely because of Hammarsett's ulterior motives.
If it was such a great victory, why did the Northern Alliance become so ineffective after the peace was signed? We played together just fine afterward. BoM and Hammarsett didn't waste time pouting. We voiced our opinions and then sent armies west, and did so for some time. The problem wasn't discord, it was that we were put into a terrible strategic position where there was only one fighting front that it was easier for our enemies to reinforce than for us. Every time we went west it took us a week to get there, and Tara was inevitably waiting for us every time we did because they can get there faster, with less straggling and less equipment damage. Advantage: Cagilan Empire and allies. We attempted to loot CE more than once, but never really accomplished much because Tara would just chase us down.
The present spread front is far more to our advantage, and we've done well there overall. Just imagine what we might have accomplished if that front had stayed open the entire time.
There is really no difference between the current Front and the front at the signing of that treaty. The problem was that you insisted on going west to fight Tara when focusing everything you had on CE would have accomplished what you wanted. Blame your General's on that point is all I can say. There aren't any regions you're giong through now which you weren't allowed to go through at the signing of the treaty. You're just fighting an additional 10k CS, because Coria is in the mix.
Er, what? Two things:
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 12, 2012, 04:14:57 PM
There is really no difference between the current Front and the front at the signing of that treaty. The problem was that you insisted on going west to fight Tara when focusing everything you had on CE would have accomplished what you wanted.
We did focus on CE. For a couple months. Did you read what I wrote? It was less than effective due to the fact that Tara also went west, and was always there to defend the Empire. It's not like we
wanted to fight Tara, they were always there to fight us. We made multiple looting runs into CE, and all ended with us being crushed by Tara. Most of the battles weren't even close since we suffered far more than they did from straggling and equipment damage due to the much longer route we had to take to get there. I seriously doubt that our efforts did much in the way of damage to CE, which is the entire reason why we changed course and started to aim at Tara, to reduce their ability to defend the Empire, which they were doing
very effectively.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on April 12, 2012, 04:14:57 PM
There aren't any regions you're going through now which you weren't allowed to go through at the signing of the treaty. You're just fighting an additional 10k CS, because Coria is in the mix.
This is just... Not true? I clearly remember Munro bitching at me repeatedly (IC) whenever some idiot noble from Hammarsett decided to walk through Menedor on the way back from CE instead of taking the long way around through Elost. We were forbidden by the terms of the treaty from entering any Corian regions.
Quote from: Geronus on April 12, 2012, 04:31:32 PM
Er, what? Two things:
We did focus on CE. For a couple months. Did you read what I wrote? It was less than effective due to the fact that Tara also went west, and was always there to defend the Empire. It's not like we wanted to fight Tara, they were always there to fight us. We made multiple looting runs into CE, and all ended with us being crushed by Tara. Most of the battles weren't even close since we suffered far more than they did from straggling and equipment damage due to the much longer route we had to take to get there. I seriously doubt that our efforts did much in the way of damage to CE, which is the entire reason why we changed course and started to aim at Tara, to reduce their ability to defend the Empire, which they were doing very effectively.
This is just... Not true? I clearly remember Munro bitching at me repeatedly (IC) whenever some idiot noble from Hammarsett decided to walk through Menedor on the way back from CE instead of taking the long way around through Elost. We were forbidden by the terms of the treaty from entering any Corian regions.
Oh you're from Hammarsett. I was assuming you're from Darka. You're mistake was then not to simply fight Tara by going through Lothruin. Lothruin was open for movement but Lothruin was not.
The whole issue I kept seeing was some serious geographical obsessions which simply didn't make sense. Like those realms in the east wanting to fight in the west and vice-versa.
Right now Hammarsett is free to attack anyone they want and through any regions. However, they primarily use Lothruin when moving forward, as do all of your allies. Conversely in fighting on the eastern front, none of the NA is using any of Coria's regions, even though based upon the treaty they could also use some of the regions in the east.
The other point is: If you can't win militarily against the realm's your fighting based upon numerical force, then it doesn't really matter where you attack because the allies will just stop you there. CE and her allies have always had the numerical advantage in this fight except when Coria had the treaty signed. This gave a slight numerical advantage to the north.
On another note: The only reason Coria rejoined the war was due to Hammarsett's disrespect for the agreements and our borders, including intentionally disregarding requests for our borders to be respected and Hammarsett trying to provoke conflict. (Note: This is likely somewhat biased, but having arranged much of these things myself, they are based mostly in fact).
Your memory isn't so good I think, though it could always be me.
Even though it was under Tara's control for a little while, Lothruin somehow ended up under Coria's control prior to the treaty signing, which did cut us off. We had to travel through Elost for everything. Of this I am fairly sure.
As far as Coria reentering the war, we declared war on you. You might have been planning to do the same for all I know, but I know that I was the one who pulled the trigger. Of this I'm 100% certain.
As for the balance of forces, I don't know. Even if one side or the other has a numerical advantage, part of the equation is where those numbers are placed and how long it takes to move them around. You and your allies have enjoyed the advantage of interior lines for most of the war, which allows you to make more efficient use of the forces you do have. This problem was heavily exacerbated for us when we were unable to use Menedor and Lothruin.
I don't honestly know if in the end Coria being in the war is good or bad for us, but to me it feels like we've done better when Coria is a battleground. I don't think you understand just how ineffective the Northern Alliance was during the time Coria was at peace. We accomplished, well, about as much as Eston has been ever since they made peace with Coria. It was a stalemate, and one that did not favor us in any way.
I vaguely remember some episode during the treaty where corian forces took a "vacation" or something like that, and happened to take Tara's side in an important battle. Coria was not supposed to be fighting in the war anymore, and their presence was supposedly an "accident".
Also, at least for my part, we wanted Coria out of the way permanently. Which means Hammarpeeps get an extra duchy and resources to help fight the war against the Empire. It wasn't all about travel routes.
All I know is that the Cagilan Empire will crush any pathetic weak humans that are so foolish to oppose it and are unwilling to convert to Daimon Worship.
Saw a battle report today. Good stuff, wish I can join in :P
Battle in Shanandoah (1 day, 1 hour ago)
Cagilan Empire, Coria, Strombran, Tara vs. Hammarsett, Minas Ithil
Estimated strengths: 1530 men vs. 1030 men
The Strong Arm of Tara (Tara), sponsored by Ottar Perkeleet, Tyrant of Tara, Ambassador of Tara, were led into battle by Marshal Kalanar Of Stargard.
The Legion of Minas Ithil (Minas Ithil), sponsored by Raoul De La Fere, Duke of Leohampton, Margrave of Leohampton, were led into battle by Marshal Rodel Iturralde.
The Corian Phalanx (Coria), sponsored by Merlin Silverfire, General of Coria, Duke of Barad Falas, Margrave of Barad Falas, were led into battle by Marshal Jean Luc Kinsey.
The Barad Falas Vanguard (Coria), sponsored by Merlin Silverfire, General of Coria, Duke of Barad Falas, Margrave of Barad Falas, were led into battle by Marshal Wind Blue Star.
The Berserkers (Hammarsett), sponsored by Sir Sigurd Havarth Crownguard, Duke of Shanandoah, Margrave of Shanandoah, were led into battle by Marshal Tjostolv Schancke.
The Strombran Stormguard (Strombran), sponsored by Cadelius Strika, Duke of Strombran, Margrave of Strombran, were led into battle by Marshal Tiberius Paxwax.
Merlin Silverfire, General of Coria, Duke of Barad Falas, Margrave of Barad Falas is spotted wielding the Guard of the Ancients.
Doctor Jeckyl, Master of Scales of Coria is spotted wearing the Long-lost Gem of Elroth.
Luthor Forbes, Supreme Chancellor of Strombran is spotted wearing the Tempus' Ring of Command.
Aden Mogger (Knight of Chagasu) is spotted wielding the Ruron's Guard.
The hero Vince Puff (Knight of Jauchu, Tara) was killed by Acquinas Burep's unit.
Charles Elegant, Marshal of the Est Sularus oth Mithas was captured by Raziel III Himoura's unit.
Tristan Devlin of Cagilan Empire, Earl of Ansalle was captured by a militia unit of Hammarsett.
Severus Scarlett (Knight of Canock, Strombran) was captured by a militia unit of Hammarsett.
Defender Victory!
>_>
Recently joined Hammersett, no idea what's going on but my estate in Lyton has been razed to the ground by an army of 3-4 nations. <_< Considering how the estate was giving me exactly 1 gold tax, I don't much mind, but still.
I've done a lot of reading but I still don't quite understand the details of the current war involving Hammersett, or rather, what apparently seems to be a self-inflicted political gangbang?
Hey, we're on one of the two front lines of the war. It's only to be expected. Also, Tara has apparently decided that we're not funny anymore and it's time for us to die.
It's a big war. We actually technically have more allies than the other guys, they're just not around at the moment and it looks like the enemy is going on the offensive.
Quote from: Ehndras on May 10, 2012, 12:31:14 PM
>_>
Recently joined Hammersett, no idea what's going on but my estate in Lyton has been razed to the ground by an army of 3-4 nations. <_< Considering how the estate was giving me exactly 1 gold tax, I don't much mind, but still.
I've done a lot of reading but I still don't quite understand the details of the current war involving Hammersett, or rather, what apparently seems to be a self-inflicted political gangbang?
Will give summary later when back if no one else has.
Indeed.
I've noticed them looting, pillaging and raping when supposedly they agreed not to.
The game just got serious. :P
I do not take lightly the raping of my people... Not like I want a bunch of weak-willed Taran bastard-children sprouting around in impoverished single-parent homes across the region, anyway. That is a definite recipe for disastrous rebellion if ever I saw one... That, and spiking the royal banquet with hallucinogenics. Nobles don't take kindly to a rival monarch stripping to their royal undergarments and engaging in sexual activities with inanimate objects in the middle of a royal diplomatic gathering.
The north should blame the ridiculous treaties they have with neighbors.
Peace!
It was not Tara who declared war or started looting. Perhaps they just get pissed .I can't believe that you can loot without fearing counteractions.
Quote from: Zadar on May 10, 2012, 08:16:19 PM
It was not Tara who declared war or started looting. Perhaps they just get pissed .I can't believe that you can loot without fearing counteractions.
There's always been isolated incidents of looting on both sides from nobles who didn't know any better or didn't care, but Hammarsett has always been very careful to order their nobles not to loot in Tara. If you were getting reports of it, you should have contacted Kurohyou to put a stop to it. That's what both sides used to do until just now all of a sudden. The current looting spree in Lyton is clearly officially sanctioned judging by the scale of it.
Quote from: Geronus on May 10, 2012, 09:10:52 PM
There's always been isolated incidents of looting on both sides from nobles who didn't know any better or didn't care, but Hammarsett has always been very careful to order their nobles not to loot in Tara. If you were getting reports of it, you should have contacted Kurohyou to put a stop to it. That's what both sides used to do until just now all of a sudden. The current looting spree in Lyton is clearly officially sanctioned judging by the scale of it.
Tara began officially sanctioning looting in Hammarsett a while back, when Hammarsett had multiple nobles at once loot in Taran regions.
Quote from: Ehndras on May 10, 2012, 12:31:14 PM
>_>
Recently joined Hammersett, no idea what's going on but my estate in Lyton has been razed to the ground by an army of 3-4 nations. <_< Considering how the estate was giving me exactly 1 gold tax, I don't much mind, but still.
I've done a lot of reading but I still don't quite understand the details of the current war involving Hammersett, or rather, what apparently seems to be a self-inflicted political gangbang?
I'll give you the low down:
Coria and Hammarsett are beyond war, but are at hatred with each other. That means that the only way for the war to end is for one realm to destroy the other. While I am somewhat biased on this issue, it WAS hammarsett who broke their agreements with Coria and declared the beginning of this war when Coria simply wanted peace with its neighbors while the whole of Atamara was at war. Coria though declared the Hatred later on in the conflict.
Coria has Talerium, Tara, and CE as its main and closest allies in the conflict for the entire duration of the war. Newly created realms and new allies are excluded simply because I know less information about them.
Hammarsett has Eston, BoM, Minas Ithil, and Darka as its main allies for the entire duration of the war.
The war though is operating on two fronts. The Eston/Talerium front, and the Coria/Hammarsett front. Each alliance is splitting its forces to each front depending upon the needs of the alliance at the time as well as particular goals each is trying to achieve.
Oh, and the Northern alliance is losing the war, (at least as little as an alliance can be losing a war that is in a virtual stalemate)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 10, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
Oh, and the Northern alliance is losing the war, (at least as little as an alliance can be losing a war that is in a virtual stalemate)
It's like freaking World War I over here in the west. :-\
Quote from: Perth on May 10, 2012, 11:20:32 PM
It's like freaking World War I over here in the west. :-\
All quiet on the western front...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 10, 2012, 09:20:45 PM
Tara began officially sanctioning looting in Hammarsett a while back, when Hammarsett had multiple nobles at once loot in Taran regions.
That might have happened recently when our Marshal made a mistake, but the orders were quickly corrected, which Ottar would know if he'd asked. Kurohyou probably should have reached out to him proactively and apologized, but either way the gloves seem to be off now.
Quote from: Geronus on May 11, 2012, 03:20:00 AM
That might have happened recently when our Marshal made a mistake, but the orders were quickly corrected, which Ottar would know if he'd asked. Kurohyou probably should have reached out to him proactively and apologized, but either way the gloves seem to be off now.
I was just stating the facts of the situation as seen by my IC character which has all allied military information from the CE alliance available to him.
Ah, intresting... Is it reallly so that Tarans have gone killing spree aswell? :D
If so, Ottar can suck my sweaty socks with his double standard noble rules, which we knew were utter BS from the beginning.
Tara cheered Darkans when we burned RS & Abington, but when they thought they dont need Darka's services anymore and we were hired to fight them... oh boy that cry and whine what we recieved after few lootings... "How barbaric! Unhonorable! Tara would never do anything like that!"
But since i dont have any actual reports of Tarans growing balls and fight like a man instead of crap talk... i stop it here :)
Situation is this mr King of wet socks.
Yes Darka was one of our friends long time ago but when they did entered on our realm and started to weaken our Realm by raping I was a bit upset and of course wet socks did start to rape without declaring war just like cowards, but hey that is your style not ours. I have given orders that we will not rape and make our enemies stronger, if that happens we will punish those.
Quote from: Geronus on May 11, 2012, 03:20:00 AM
That might have happened recently when our Marshal made a mistake, but the orders were quickly corrected, which Ottar would know if he'd asked. Kurohyou probably should have reached out to him proactively and apologized, but either way the gloves seem to be off now.
While I can only speak from the opinion that my character (and me, to a certain extent) has formed, people don't actually
like Hammarsett. They (Hammarsett) don't seem to study history, or even take note of current events: Hammarsett was formed
by burning other realms to the ground to make place for them.
So what do they do? Take the first opportunity to attack the realms that cleared the land for them. Not only is that ungrateful, but quite colossally stupid. The land got burned to the ground before - and will now undoubtedly be again.
/endrant.
QuoteHammarsett was formed by burning other realms to the ground to make place for them.
Yeah, that's a good reason to hate them. I mean, come on, no one with any class *ever* does that. How rude of them to form a realm on land conquered from someone else... ::)
Quote from: Indirik on May 12, 2012, 12:51:19 AM
Yeah, that's a good reason to hate them. I mean, come on, no one with any class *ever* does that. How rude of them to form a realm on land conquered from someone else... ::)
You need to finish reading the post before reaching for the snarky comments, man. Try again. ::)
I did. I just disagree with the premise of the post. "No one likes Hammarsett". That's not true at all. CE and their client states may not like them. But I think htey have the respect of most of the northerners. (So long as they avoid appointing tactless idiots as generals.)
Quote from: Indirik on May 12, 2012, 02:27:52 AM
I did. I just disagree with the premise of the post. "No one likes Hammarsett". That's not true at all. CE and their client states may not like them. But I think htey have the respect of most of the northerners. (So long as they avoid appointing tactless idiots as generals.)
One is all and all is one. I am you and you aren't me.
Quote from: Indirik on May 12, 2012, 02:27:52 AM
I did. I just disagree with the premise of the post. "No one likes Hammarsett". That's not true at all. CE and their client states may not like them. But I think htey have the respect of most of the northerners. (So long as they avoid appointing tactless idiots as generals.)
I know of plenty of people in the north who don't like Hammarsett. They just won't say so publicly because of the ongoing war. Sometimes you're stuck with allies you don't like.
Yeah, you always find people that don't like their allies. But most often you're kinda stuck with them.
Quote from: Bael on May 11, 2012, 09:21:37 PM
While I can only speak from the opinion that my character (and me, to a certain extent) has formed, people don't actually like Hammarsett. They (Hammarsett) don't seem to study history, or even take note of current events: Hammarsett was formed by burning other realms to the ground to make place for them.
So what do they do? Take the first opportunity to attack the realms that cleared the land for them. Not only is that ungrateful, but quite colossally stupid. The land got burned to the ground before - and will now undoubtedly be again.
/endrant.
Maybe. On the other hand, if you were as familiar with the history of Hammarsett as you are seemingly claiming to be, you'd probably understand why we've sided against both the Cagilans and the Corians.
To go off on a tangent, the second ruler or Hammarsett was my character, and I can tell you now that he never cared much for Atamaran politics or politicians. Undoubtedly he's done some stupid things politically that have haunted and will continue to haunt Hammarsett (and for good reason), but it was all done out of the IC conviction that most of his peers were contemptible in one way or another. He always looked down on the rest of the rulers of Atamara for having no convictions. Kostaja of Darka? Craven for being unwilling to even consider putting his realm at risk of counterattack by attacking Talerium even though it could have been to the immense benefit of his allies and probably the larger cause. Kerwin of Eston? Selfish fool for prioritizing what was good for himself and his one-time enemy of Coria over what was good for the realms that actually stuck their necks out to support him. Ottar of Tara? Soulless marionette of the Cagilan Empire with a god complex (dance puppet, dance!). Sordnaz of BoM? The ultimate politician, who's never taken a real stand on anything in his life. Aldarion of Talerium? Nothing but an urbane fig leaf over a combination of Cagilan cultural domination and domestic murder worship. Caibre of Suville? Inconstant opportunist of no particular convictions. Sidd of Minas Ithil? Actually, he was a pretty decent guy by Laszlo, though perhaps too passive. The only contemporary Laszlo ever truly respected other than Sidd was Nathan Simmons of Carelia (ironically, considering Laszlo's roots in Norland). Him and (even more ironically) the leadership of the Cagilan Empire at the time. Laszlo never dealt directly with the Empire, but at least they were always up front about what they represented in Laszlo's biased mind.
Now, to all the players whose characters Laszlo just insulted:
These are Laszlo's opinions. Expound upon your own characters' viewpoints as much as you like, but I hope you don't take it personally ;)
Quote from: Geronus on May 12, 2012, 07:45:47 AM
Maybe. On the other hand, if you were as familiar with the history of Hammarsett as you are seemingly claiming to be, you'd probably understand why we've sided against both the Cagilans and the Corians.
Kerwin of Eston? Selfish fool for prioritizing what was good for himself and his one-time enemy of Coria over what was good for the realms that actually stuck their necks out to support him.
You obviously don't know anything about the history between Coria and Eston. Coria stuck its neck out to support Eston in the past, more than the Northern Alliance has in this war.
Also, I'm curious as you didn't name any of Coria's rulers as having reason for your completely screwing over Corian/Hammarsett relations.
Like, I can understand why you are fighting CE, because most of your neighbors hate them, but why you chose to betray your Corian friend who helped found your realm I don't understand at all. Without us, you were nothing. Now we have to destroy your realm because of your actions.
Quote from: Geronus on May 12, 2012, 07:45:47 AM
Kerwin of Eston? Selfish fool for prioritizing what was good for himself and his one-time enemy of Coria over what was good for the realms that actually stuck their necks out to support him.
Meh, maybe so.
I wouldn't call him a fool, but selfish maybe sure. Kerwin has his own visions of the north and what the north should be; it isn't anything like what it is now and he struggles to reconcile his actions between the reality of what the geopolitics are and what he wants the geopolitics to be.
The most annoying thing about "The Current War" is that I think a lot of people are kind of ready for it to be over (maybe some aren't, though) but there just seems to be no good political way out of it until someone gets destroyed.
Quote from: Perth on May 12, 2012, 08:46:59 AM
The most annoying thing about "The Current War" is that I think a lot of people are kind of ready for it to be over (maybe some aren't, though) but there just seems to be no good political way out of it until someone gets destroyed.
I agree. Unfortunately, there really is no way to end this war at least for Coria and Hammarsett unless one of us is destroyed. That's just simply the way "Hatred" works. (Blame Laszlo for that one).
Since neither alliance wants their "ally" to be the one destroyed the war continues. It doesn't help that its a virtual stalemate either.
Another problem is, I don't think anyone can see any way that the diplomacy on Atamara can evolve well for whichever realm chooses to change the situation up first. Neither side can see the other alliance breaking up, so this war is pretty much just a mexican standoff where everyone is waiting for the other person to make the first devastating move. It is sad because my character has a lot of plans which he can't implement until after Coria is done fighting Hammarsett. His plans most likely will make a change on the way things are run in the current alliance set ups, but his hands are tied. It is 100% impossible to gain IC political support for anything which changes Coria's mission away from Hammarsett due to the Hatred war that is being fought.
Even still, lets say someone is destroyed. Does the war stop there? If it does, what does everyone even do next? You can't attack CE, because they have the best military on the continent. If you attack one of their allies, they'll gladly join in just to keep their realm members occupied. Perhaps the northern alliance fractions once again after the war and goes back to its petty squabbles, but that isn't that interesting on the whole either. CE's alliance will still be looking for some conflict to stick its head into, but CE also can't be defeated so long as all of its current allies stand by its side. CE/Tara/Talerium/Coria/Strombran have enough military strength and prowess to hold off every other realm on the continent and have done so successfully since the beginning of the war (when it actually was everyone against us). So this alliance causes stagnation because no one can fight them successfully, and even if all ally against them they can force a stalemate at the minimum.
Meanwhile, no one in the CE bloc wants to split up from it (at least not during war time) because it provides the strongest possible defense for your realm. Its a "winning" side that won't be defeated. So either CE needs some internal conflict that forces succession scale events, or CE needs to fight Tara to split this entire thing up. Shoot, it may be interesting if with the new estate system, CE just tried to become the next Abington on their own, slowly but surely.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 12, 2012, 09:27:29 AM
I agree. Unfortunately, there really is no way to end this war at least for Coria and Hammarsett unless one of us is destroyed. That's just simply the way "Hatred" works. (Blame Laszlo for that one).
Since neither alliance wants their "ally" to be the one destroyed the war continues. It doesn't help that its a virtual stalemate either.
Another problem is, I don't think anyone can see any way that the diplomacy on Atamara can evolve well for whichever realm chooses to change the situation up first. Neither side can see the other alliance breaking up, so this war is pretty much just a mexican standoff where everyone is waiting for the other person to make the first devastating move. It is sad because my character has a lot of plans which he can't implement until after Coria is done fighting Hammarsett. His plans most likely will make a change on the way things are run in the current alliance set ups, but his hands are tied. It is 100% impossible to gain IC political support for anything which changes Coria's mission away from Hammarsett due to the Hatred war that is being fought.
Even still, lets say someone is destroyed. Does the war stop there? If it does, what does everyone even do next? You can't attack CE, because they have the best military on the continent. If you attack one of their allies, they'll gladly join in just to keep their realm members occupied. Perhaps the northern alliance fractions once again after the war and goes back to its petty squabbles, but that isn't that interesting on the whole either. CE's alliance will still be looking for some conflict to stick its head into, but CE also can't be defeated so long as all of its current allies stand by its side. CE/Tara/Talerium/Coria/Strombran have enough military strength and prowess to hold off every other realm on the continent and have done so successfully since the beginning of the war (when it actually was everyone against us). So this alliance causes stagnation because no one can fight them successfully, and even if all ally against them they can force a stalemate at the minimum.
Meanwhile, no one in the CE bloc wants to split up from it (at least not during war time) because it provides the strongest possible defense for your realm. Its a "winning" side that won't be defeated. So either CE needs some internal conflict that forces succession scale events, or CE needs to fight Tara to split this entire thing up. Shoot, it may be interesting if with the new estate system, CE just tried to become the next Abington on their own, slowly but surely.
You're absolutely right.
All of it is kind of awkward really. It's like this huge continent-wide war where it's all or nothing. It's like nothing can happen until one side is completely broken.
Yes,this war has last for a long time and it sure is time to move forward. Let's burn Hammarsett and then continue to MI. We have to teach them a lesson and now we have to do that the hard way. Darka did start this and now their allies will pay. Perhaps they can share their cookies to comfort their beaten allies :).
It is sad that we have to destroy Hammars but they did choose the wrong side even we did created them. What should we do to Eston?
Quote from: Zadar on May 12, 2012, 02:04:44 PM
What should we do to Eston?
What did we ever do! :(
Kerwin probably shouldn't have gloated about destroying CE. ;)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 12, 2012, 08:02:47 AM
You obviously don't know anything about the history between Coria and Eston. Coria stuck its neck out to support Eston in the past, more than the Northern Alliance has in this war.
Also, I'm curious as you didn't name any of Coria's rulers as having reason for your completely screwing over Corian/Hammarsett relations.
Like, I can understand why you are fighting CE, because most of your neighbors hate them, but why you chose to betray your Corian friend who helped found your realm I don't understand at all. Without us, you were nothing. Now we have to destroy your realm because of your actions.
Laszlo doesn't know much of anything, nor has he ever gone out of his way to rectify that (nor will he in all likelihood). That's how he can manage to be so sincerely prejudiced.
As for why we turned on Coria, you'd actually need to ask Regulus about that; by the time Laszlo took the throne we'd already fought round one and relations between our realms were fairly sour. Laszlo simply continued the previous regime's policy of political hostility, which isn't to say that he wasn't sincere about it; he very much was. But it was less personal than it was based on his overarching desire to see the Cagilan Empire lose some of its influence, and whatever your opinion on the matter is, Laszlo did and still sincerely does believe that Coria is little more than an unrepentant stooge of the Empire. Thus he never had anything personal against Saeculo, though don't doubt for a minute that Laszlo didn't like him.
In any case, I can hardly blame Saeculo for the poor relations between our realms during Laszlo's reign; Laszlo was far too biased. Saeculo would have had to do and say any number of things that he was probably both politically and constitutionally incapable of doing and saying in order to actually make a good impression on Laszlo. I just don't think that was going to happen.
QuoteHuge Battle Fought (11 days, 11 hours ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Tarkhog:
Suville vs. Carelia
Estimated strengths: 540 men vs. 560 men
The Hammers of Carelia (Carelia), sponsored by Karandras Ulthran, Judge of Carelia, Duchess of Sullenport, Duchess of Sullenport, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Reginal Enstance.
The Army of Narville (Suville), sponsored by Caibre Eldrake, King of Suville, were led into battle by Marshal Proximus Centauri.
Sir Jareth La Pointe (Knight of Sudfern) is spotted wielding the Emerald-Studded Sword of Unlife.
Ranulf Flambard, Count of Glassinn is spotted wielding the Bloody Broadsword of Suville.
Sir Reginal Enstance (Lord) is spotted wearing the Faries' Hat.
Adonis Zurralius, Quartermaster of Suville, Duke of Narville, Duke of Narville is spotted wielding the Glowing Dagger of Flame.
Talius Sargeras Valorian (Lord of Carelia) was captured by Joscelin de Courtenay's unit.
Jimanela de Aquitane (Noble of Carelia) was captured by Jareth La Pointe's unit.
Attacker Victory!
Nice battle. Wondering why they both fighting over what exactly ???
Quote from: Ketchum on May 15, 2012, 05:43:23 AM
Nice battle. Wondering why they both fighting over what exactly ???
Land.
Vultures are trying to benefit from weaker opponets. Suville is one big greedy bird.
Quote from: de Aquitane on May 15, 2012, 06:38:52 AM
Land.
To be more specific they need food so they are taking Carelian land to provide more. <-That is Suville's reason they say they are attacking Carelia.
Quote from: Penchant on May 15, 2012, 02:16:11 PM
To be more specific they need food so they are taking Carelian land to provide more. <-That is Suville's reason they say they are attacking Carelia.
That's the official reason, correct.
Quote from: Darksun on May 15, 2012, 06:28:10 PM
That's the official reason, correct.
Unofficial reason: Abington 2.0
Actually, this would be Abington 3.0.
Better than Tuchanon XIVXXC...
Quote from: Indirik on May 15, 2012, 07:38:27 PM
Actually, this would be Abington 3.0.
That would require a ruler who isn't asleep at the wheel.
Quote from: Darksun on May 15, 2012, 09:32:48 PM
That would require a ruler who isn't asleep at the wheel.
Not really...I mean just look at CE. You think it is their ruler who is winning their wars? Good Generals make empires. Bad Generals make Tara.
;) lol
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 15, 2012, 09:42:03 PM
Not really...I mean just look at CE. You think it is their ruler who is winning their wars? Good Generals make empires. Bad Generals make Tara.
;) lol
I can say quite certainly that PM Elegant has been active behind the scenes working to ensure CE wins. By contrast he makes Suville's King look like a moss covered rock.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 15, 2012, 09:42:03 PM
Not really...I mean just look at CE. You think it is their ruler who is winning their wars? Good Generals make empires. Bad Generals make Tara.
;) lol
+1
A
great general can be the most powerful dude on the continent...
Quote from: Marlboro on May 15, 2012, 09:56:08 PM
+1
A great general can be the most powerful dude on the continent...
That's just not true. It is the politician behind the general which is the most powerful dude on the continent. Or the guy with the money. Or if its all the same guy....well you're screwed if you're not him.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 15, 2012, 09:57:26 PM
That's just not true. It is the politician behind the general which is the most powerful dude on the continent. Or the guy with the money. Or if its all the same guy....well you're screwed if you're not him.
You really think Enri couldn't influence the vote if he wanted to? CE is a republic; everyone gets a monthly vote on said politician, including the knights he fights tooth and nail to keep flush with gold.
Not that he's ever
used that power, but it's there. His endorsement would probably be the deciding factor in any given election.
Quote from: Marlboro on May 15, 2012, 10:12:33 PM
You really think Enri couldn't influence the vote if he wanted to? CE is a republic; everyone gets a monthly vote on said politician, including the knights he fights tooth and nail to keep flush with gold.
Not that he's ever used that power, but it's there. His endorsement would probably be the deciding factor in any given election.
Nope, Enri isn't a politician. When I was in CE he was a pushover as far as politics went. I mean he could if he wanted to, but the ones he's friends with probably have the control with the implication of his support.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 15, 2012, 09:57:26 PM
That's just not true. It is the politician behind the general which is the most powerful dude on the continent. Or the guy with the money. Or if its all the same guy....well you're screwed if you're not him.
The worst thing that can happen to any ruler is that he gets lumbered with a successful, popular general.
Quote from: Revan on May 15, 2012, 11:27:51 PM
The worst thing that can happen to any ruler is that he gets lumbered with a successful, popular general.
Absolute hogwash. That's the worst thing that can happen to an idiot ruler who doesn't have a good relationship with his general and can't find proper outlets for his general's ambition. If the general does well enough, make him a King, to your Emperor.
Agreed, generals can not accomplish anything if the politics are done incorrectly. A general matters in an even war, the current one on Atamara is an exception to the basics of the continent on how balanced it was. And even if a general would want to begin an uprising, funds would be an issue if not loyalty. A monarch who appoints a general a duke is asking for it anyway.
A good general cleans up the messes left by bad politicians ;)
Quote from: Sacha on May 16, 2012, 12:52:48 AM
A good general cleans up the messes left by bad politicians ;)
and a good politician makes everyone think it wasn't their mess to begin with.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 16, 2012, 12:59:44 AM
A good general cleans up the messes left by bad politicians ;).
It seems to me a general who starts cleaning up after politicians is just a politician who plays with the military. In which case there already is an awful power vacum in politidcs.
Ah, Atamara politic and the never ending war justifications. Wish I could participate in, but I not even a noble yet :P
Anybody seeing my realm General holding Unique Item in war? I help him crafted one ;)
Quote from: Ketchum on May 17, 2012, 03:53:33 AM
Ah, Atamara politic and the never ending war justifications.
Everything you need to know about Atamara can be summed up with this:
CE is always justified in all of their wars and if you disagree, you can tell that to the huge gang bang of alliances about to destroy your realm. Therefore, just follow these three simple steps:
1. Fight on CE's side
2. ?????
3. Profit!
History is written by the victor :)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 17, 2012, 05:21:10 AM
1. Fight on CE's side
2. ?????
3. Profit!
Sad, but totally and hilariously true most of the time.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 15, 2012, 09:42:03 PM
Not really...I mean just look at CE. You think it is their ruler who is winning their wars? Good Generals make empires. Bad Generals make Tara.
;) lol
I also have to +1 this. haha
The thing that annoys me most in this war is that I have a character on each side of the fight. It keeps looking like one side or the other will be able to finish it and then the attempt fizzles. The worst thing is that
both sides suffer from poor coordination. One on side, we've got communication problems. On the other, we have execution issues. At this point, I don't know who I want to come out on top... But I imagine one of the two will die by the time this war ends. Both are heroes and have come quite close.
Give it time. It took us 1 OOC year to crack Shanandoah last time, and that took entire southern Atamara mobilizing against MI and the northern federation. We have a lot less help this time around, so it's going to take a lot longer.
When we have peace, you guys complain about peace. When we have slow wars, you guys complain about slow wars. When we have fast wars, you guys complain about gang-bangs.
The problem is not the game. The problem is youthful impatience and today's "instant gratification" culture. You all want to pull off big, flashy stunts, and you want to do it yesterday.
Also you kids get off my lawn. >:(
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 23, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
The problem is not the game. The problem is youthful impatience and today's "instant gratification" culture. You all want to pull off big, flashy stunts, and you want to do it yesterday.
Hell yeah!
I'm interested to see how the new estate system changes things. By my reckoning realms at or below 2 nobles a region are going to see a drop in income compared to realms that can fill out more/most of their estates.
At the same time, not needing to do as much region maintenance as before due to lack of estates might free up more nobles to fight.
There was also a big bump in food production in a bunch of realms (according to the stats). Should encourage more wars and less region maintenance.
There is a *lot* less maintenance in the new system. However, realms with fewer knights won't necessarily be poorer than they were. A lord of a rural region with no knights can still easily have a 50% estate that operates at, say, 80% efficiency. That effectively gives you 60-65% of the regions full income, all yours, *and* you don't have to worry at all about production and/or control falling through the floor due to lack of knights. You can also run much higher tax rates than you might have been able to with no knights. With gold and population rebalancing, even half of a rural region's income can be quite generous. I expect that realms like Talerium and BoM may actually see increases in their collectible taxes, and many of their nobles will be freed up from region maintenance to go to war. It should be a good thing.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 23, 2012, 10:23:51 AM
Give it time. It took us 1 OOC year to crack Shanandoah last time, and that took entire southern Atamara mobilizing against MI and the northern federation. We have a lot less help this time around, so it's going to take a lot longer.
When we have peace, you guys complain about peace. When we have slow wars, you guys complain about slow wars. When we have fast wars, you guys complain about gang-bangs.
The problem is not the game. The problem is youthful impatience and today's "instant gratification" culture. You all want to pull off big, flashy stunts, and you want to do it yesterday.
Also you kids get off my lawn. >:(
Oh, I remember. :) I only had one character at the time, but I was there. I also agree the problem isn't the game... But this war has gone on for much more than a year now. Ravendon was appointed General in the middle of the original period of Corian military action and had been Marshal for some time before that (for the same war). Things have changed and there had been some interesting developments, but it had definitely stagnated again before the assault on Shanandoah. It doesn't matter if you think a slow war is acceptable or not if the majority tires of it. I think the people "complaining" here are the vocal ones speaking more out of frustration that the ones who don't speak out just silently stop participating. It doesn't matter if I personally don't mind long wars (few real wars last a single year)... a war just loses its allure when more than half your realm stops participating (the case with BoM).
Also, I'm pretty sure Tom would like us to complain about peace. He's said it before in an update: It's called
BattleMaster for a reason. ;)
Maybe people should start wooing the only realm on the map who currently hasn't picked a side in this conflict and has the resources to truly cause problems for the "central alliance".
CE is very actively trying to bring Suville into the fold, but there is resistance - mostly due to an absent King.
Quote from: Eirikr on May 23, 2012, 07:05:44 PMBut this war has gone on for much more than a year now.
Only a year? It's got a long way to go to start catching up to the
real long-term war we had on EC.
Quote from: Indirik on May 23, 2012, 07:36:13 PM
Only a year? It's got a long way to go to start catching up to the real long-term war we had on EC.
There we go, now we've gone beyond my time. :) Also, more than a year. It's about a year and a half now.
Eh the problem with this war is that it's mostly been stalemated; very few decisive victories have been won other than the total defeat of Carelia. That's always boring for everyone involved.
Atamara also bores me for other reasons. It's hard to put a finger on exactly why, but it just feels dull and set in its ways. On other islands I feel like there are always new possibilities and opportunities all the time. In all my time on Atamara, it's been the opposite. It's incredibly uninspiring. I made a second character there a while back, but it's time for him to emigrate. Suville is deathly boring.
Quote from: Geronus on May 23, 2012, 10:14:30 PM
Atamara also bores me for other reasons. It's hard to put a finger on exactly why, but it just feels dull and set in its ways. On other islands I feel like there are always new possibilities and opportunities all the time. In all my time on Atamara, it's been the opposite.
That is an incredibly precise definition. I have been feeling like that for years. I always wanted to do something there, but in the recent time I've pretty much given up on that island and I'm avoiding it for indefinite time. Atamara is very depressing for me.
I'm hoping that the new estate system will introduce some additional conflict as it reduces the barriers to expansion significantly.
This will take some time to manifest.
At the same time, there are some people in seats of power who would like to maintain the status quo. I think there is a lot of new conflict on the horizon.
You mean as opposed to right now, when the whole island is theoretically at war and it still feels boring? If that doesn't scream Something is Very Wrong Here, then I don't know what does.
I vote that Tom brings the Sixth Invasion to Atamara instead of Beluaterra.
The war feels pretty boring because the sides aren't changing. Its the same sides over and over. (Mostly. All that changes is the name of the realm on the front line, even though the lines are staying mostly the same.)
The island really needs a political shakeup, or one side needs a *major* breakthrough before anything gets exciting.
The main problem for the current war, is that it takes weeks for armies to fight each other, at first it was something interesting but now......:
Huge Battle Fought (25 days, 17 hours ago)
Huge Battle Fought (4 days, 5 hours ago)
Is like watching Matrix Reloaded (too much talking and not enough action) and the army who win the battle only can stay on field for couple days before the 2 week back to refit and come back, while in that time the other army comes back and control the area, and etc. etc.
This kind of war would be great on EC, because on Atamara it doesn't matter how well you coordinate, there is always some one who sleep on the road or make a bad turn.
Anyways there was not improvement while The Empire was busy fighting Carelia, now that Carelia is barely out of the map and the existing joke-like treaties the Current War will be staled for a loooooong while.
Peace!
Most of the capitals of the realms who are waging war are fairly far from enemy territory which makes it hard to get troops there. :( Maybe if we add some successions and many new realms ;) HAHA <-- funny
Quote from: Indirik on May 23, 2012, 11:27:28 PM
The war feels pretty boring because the sides aren't changing. Its the same sides over and over. (Mostly. All that changes is the name of the realm on the front line, even though the lines are staying mostly the same.)
The island really needs a political shakeup, or one side needs a *major* breakthrough before anything gets exciting.
Some people really want to create a political shakeup (and have the power to do so) however it is VERY risky when the norm is no political change for half-a-decade. While perfect assurance isn't needed, it is nice to have at least some idea that something might work.
Another problem is that internal "not caring" about things has also affected a few realms who could have changed things up from what my intel says.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 24, 2012, 05:55:39 AM
Some people really want to create a political shakeup (and have the power to do so) however it is VERY risky when the norm is no political change for half-a-decade. While perfect assurance isn't needed, it is nice to have at least some idea that something might work.
Another problem is that internal "not caring" about things has also affected a few realms who could have changed things up from what my intel says.
Also, more than any other continent, Atamara is still pretty heavily influenced by the "team play" idea which makes shaking things up particularly difficult sometimes.
Quote from: Perth on May 24, 2012, 07:02:05 AM
Also, more than any other continent, Atamara is still pretty heavily influenced by the "team play" idea which makes shaking things up particularly difficult sometimes.
I agree. Eston should split into three realms immediately. Two of which should immediately switch sides in the war and attack the third one.
You want to shake things up? You first.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 08:57:30 AM
I agree. Eston should split into three realms immediately. Two of which should immediately switch sides in the war and attack the third one.
Okay. Convince three Dukes to do it. I don't have that power.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 08:57:30 AM
You want to shake things up? You first.
Believe me, I'm trying.
Step down and endorse someone more radical.
Piss off one of your dukes so badly that they secede.
Attack Minas Ithil. They are a juicy target and don't have any real friends left.
Attack BoM. They are half your size.
Attack Darka. They took one of your cities. (Which will probably convince at least one of your dukes to secede, because, let's face it, Eston is still Darka's battered girlfriend.)
There are lots of ways for Eston to "shake things up". All of them involve putting your current position of power and influence at massive, suicidal risk.
So let's be honest with ourselves here. We're not refusing to shake things up because we can't. We don't do it because we don't want to. I say "we" because this applies to me as well.
At least CE still gets to fight battles. ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 09:08:37 AM
Step down and endorse someone more radical.
That one is silly, obviously.
One or more of the rest of the things you have said have all been well considered. When I said, "believe me I'm trying" I meant it.
Right. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. ;)
Shaking things up for Eston would be doing anything besides just sitting in Nazamroth and having a staring contest with Talerium & CE to see who blinks first....
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 09:08:37 AM
Step down and endorse someone more radical.
Piss off one of your dukes so badly that they secede.
Attack Minas Ithil. They are a juicy target and don't have any real friends left.
Attack BoM. They are half your size.
Attack Darka. They took one of your cities. (Which will probably convince at least one of your dukes to secede, because, let's face it, Eston is still Darka's battered girlfriend.)
There are lots of ways for Eston to "shake things up". All of them involve putting your current position of power and influence at massive, suicidal risk.
So let's be honest with ourselves here. We're not refusing to shake things up because we can't. We don't do it because we don't want to. I say "we" because this applies to me as well.
At least CE still gets to fight battles. ;D
I believe you realize that all of you suggestions are for CE benefit....
Trying to win the war from the rear again?
The Northern alliance may be shaken-up, but I believe it is too early for the crows to move in.
And after Eston cruses its allies, who will help it stand against the CE? Or will CE welcome it in its alliance?
You want to stir and shake things up? Declare war on Tara, or even Coria or Talerioum. God knows the last 2 are ripe as peaches.
Quote from: megs on May 24, 2012, 10:13:21 AM
I believe it is too early for the crows to move in.
But taking advantage of a situation is what ravens do best. Seriously. Did you even look at my family crest? ;D
Quote from: megs on May 24, 2012, 10:13:21 AM
Eston cruses its allies
Eston? Crush anything besides grapes? Are we talking about the same Eston here?
Maybe there is a competent Eston on some other island. :o
Quote from: megs on May 24, 2012, 10:13:21 AM
You want to stir and shake things up? Declare war on Tara, or even Coria or Talerioum. God knows the last 2 are ripe as peaches.
You guys are the ones whining and screaming for "hope and change". All I'm saying is: "You first, please."
CE would be less beholden to its alliances if the rest of the island is not actively trying to kill them. And our allies actually
help us, instead of screwing us over all the time, maybe taking a duchy from us when they could get away with it.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
But taking advantage of a situation is what ravens do best. Seriously. Did you even look at my family crest? ;D
Eston? Crush anything besides grapes? Are we talking about the same Eston here?
Maybe there is a competent Eston on some other island. :o
You guys are the ones whining and screaming for "hope and change". All I'm saying is: "You first, please."
CE would be less beholden to its alliances if the rest of the island is not actively trying to kill them. And our allies actually help us, instead of screwing us over all the time, maybe taking a duchy from us when they could get away with it.
Because no one actually RP's a greedy, self-serving noble wanting everything for themselves in any of your realms...
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
Eston? Crush anything besides grapes? Are we talking about the same Eston here?
We would be crushing Talerium if it wasn't for you Cagilans and Kostaja. :-\
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
CE would be less beholden to its alliances if the rest of the island is not actively trying to kill them. And our allies actually help us, instead of screwing us over all the time, maybe taking a duchy from us when they could get away with it.
CE's alliances have been so very fluid and dynamic in the past. ::)
What a crappy island.
Quote from: Geronus on May 24, 2012, 01:58:43 PM
What a crappy island.
Then you can either work to change that, or go to a different island.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 10:46:48 AM
But taking advantage of a situation is what ravens do best. Seriously. Did you even look at my family crest? ;D
Have you considered that i chose to say crow because of your crest? ;)
Quote from: egamma on May 24, 2012, 02:37:37 PM
Then you can either work to change that, or go to a different island.
But I prefer whining. :'(
I am taking my second character there elsewhere. I thought Suville would be a good place to go and try to stir things up a bit, but I was rapidly disillusioned. Laszlo will hang around Atamara though, mainly because that's where he's always been. He's one of those characters that doesn't take too much of my time, so might as well, especially since I'm at the character limit on BT and Dwilight.
Quote from: Geronus on May 24, 2012, 07:07:03 PM
But I prefer whining. :'(
I am taking my second character there elsewhere. I thought Suville would be a good place to go and try to stir things up a bit, but I was rapidly disillusioned. Laszlo will hang around Atamara though, mainly because that's where he's always been. He's one of those characters that doesn't take too much of my time, so might as well, especially since I'm at the character limit on BT and Dwilight.
You didn't try too hard to stir things up... :(
Didn't know Atamara had wars, real ones anyways.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on May 24, 2012, 11:50:56 AM
Because no one actually RP's a greedy, self-serving noble wanting everything for themselves in any of your realms...
Actually, CE exports them to our allies, but we turn them into
rational, greedy, self-serving nobles first. They know their goose is cooked if they turn on CE.
You would not believe how well this scheme works.Quote from: Perth on May 24, 2012, 12:02:21 PM
We would be crushing Talerium if it wasn't for you Cagilans and Kostaja. :-\
Yeah! And Eston would have gotten away with it too! If it weren't for you pesky Cagilan and Darkan kids and your DAMNED DOG! >:(
Quote from: Sypher on May 24, 2012, 12:04:16 PM
CE's alliances have been so very fluid and dynamic in the past. ::)
CE has made one new ally in the past year alone. Please show me a northern realm that can beat that. ;D
Quote from: Foundation on May 24, 2012, 08:20:26 PM
Didn't know Atamara had wars, real ones anyways.
AT gets very poor PR on the forums. We seem to get a disproportional share of whiners, and most of us are busy playing the game instead of chatting on the forums.
Put the Zuma on Atamara and we're all set for the PR ;D
While we at each other throat for the wars justifications, which side is Minas Ithil on? CE or against them? I am pretty confused ???
Minas Ithil is allied w/ Darka, Eston, BoM & Hammarsett.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 24, 2012, 08:31:20 PM
AT gets very poor PR on the forums. We seem to get a disproportional share of whiners, and most of us are busy playing the game instead of chatting on the forums.
Interesting, a disproportional share of whiners + oldest island with longest players => ???
Busy playing the game => no chat on forums, so chat on forums => not playing the game. Refer to the Dwilight subboard for funnies.
Atamara is boring because it's always New Team X vs CE and Friends, with CE and Friends eventually winning. Then AT goes on a two-month lull as New Team Y forms up and CE and Friends relax and wait for the party to recommence.
Quote from: Feylonis on May 25, 2012, 06:34:44 PM
Atamara is boring because it's always New Team X vs CE and Friends, with CE and Friends eventually winning. Then AT goes on a two-month lull as New Team Y forms up and CE and Friends relax and wait for the party to recommence.
Well there's that, but I have found that even within the realms I have been in that things seem rather dull most of the time. Perhaps there are realms where things are more vibrant internally (CE maybe? Republics tend to be much more participatory), but I haven't found one since Norland went down. Most places I've been, many if not all of the people in power are deeply entrenched (like, they have been Duke/King/Whatever for *years*) and are not inclined to encourage the participation of others in their decision making. Often they don't say anything at all outside of closed councils for days, weeks or even months at a time.
This problem is actually not unique to AT by any means, but I have found it to be worse on average there than other places I've been, though that could well be a result of my own bad luck.
Quote from: Geronus on May 25, 2012, 07:18:47 PM
Well there's that, but I have found that even within the realms I have been in that things seem rather dull most of the time. Perhaps there are realms where things are more vibrant internally (CE maybe? Republics tend to be much more participatory), but I haven't found one since Norland went down. Most places I've been, many if not all of the people in power are deeply entrenched (like, they have been Duke/King/Whatever for *years*) and are not inclined to encourage the participation of others in their decision making. Often they don't say anything at all outside of closed councils for days, weeks or even months at a time.
This problem is actually not unique to AT by any means, but I have found it to be worse on average there than other places I've been, though that could well be a result of my own bad luck.
What about Barony of Makar? Eston?
Arcaea isn't bad, with minor conflicts popping up all along our borders, and the planned colony to the north.
D'Hara, believe it or not, is currently my favorite realm to play in. No war, but decent RP, and the looming threat of destruction from one or all of the following: SA, Luria, Aurvrandil, Zuma, Kabrinskia. Constant struggle to find food, embattled allies, repopulating a desert.
Quote from: egamma on May 25, 2012, 09:42:42 PM
What about Barony of Makar? Eston?
Never played in Eston. I mean, I can't say I've seen everything AT has to offer, by any means. Not even half of it. I have played in Darka, BoM, Hammarsett, Norland and Suville.
BoM was slow while I was there, and I was there for quite a while, at least a year IRL, probably more. It wasn't as dead as Suville feels right now, but it wasn't exactly an exciting place either.
I'll be the first to admit that Eston has some pretty long standing entrenched people in high positions, mainly its Dukes have all been there for-ev-er.
However, they are some of the most active people in the realm and genuinely contribute and do their jobs, so its hard to justify trying to get rid of them (even if I could).
Time to kill a few Dukes. ::)
Quote from: Geronus on May 25, 2012, 11:14:31 PM
Never played in Eston. I mean, I can't say I've seen everything AT has to offer, by any means. Not even half of it. I have played in Darka, BoM, Hammarsett, Norland and Suville.
BoM was slow while I was there, and I was there for quite a while, at least a year IRL, probably more. It wasn't as dead as Suville feels right now, but it wasn't exactly an exciting place either.
Well, that explains your problem. You keep playing on the wrong side. You should join a realm on the side of CE, like Coria. We're on their side, at least...for now.
Quote from: Perth on May 26, 2012, 12:21:51 AM
However, they are some of the most active people in the realm and genuinely contribute and do their(Dukes) jobs, so its hard to justify trying to get rid of them (even if I could).
There are always justifications for getting rid of Dukes. Here's an easy one: You want their power for yourself.
The hard part is getting away with it and not pissing them off, while leaving them in a position where they can use that pissed off position.
Quote from: T Strike on May 26, 2012, 12:50:41 AM
Time to kill a few Dukes. ::)
Naw...The Dukes are the ones most able to change things up for people. Assuming they are doing their job right.
The dukes are also the ones who can really lock a realm in and stop any change. That's why you replace them, and get someone with a new plan in place.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 26, 2012, 02:39:57 AM
Well, that explains your problem. You keep playing on the wrong side. You should join a realm on the side of CE, like Coria. We're on their side, at least...for now.
There are always justifications for getting rid of Dukes. Here's an easy one: You want their power for yourself.
The day Coria turns against the Empire, I will eat my hat.
There see, now you have to do it just so that you can make me eat my hat. ;D
I might give either CE or Coria a try at some point, but we'll see. I really don't personally care for the dynamic that the Cagilan alliance bloc has fostered on the island since I've been on the downside of it pretty much my entire time playing, so it's a tough sell even though I recognize that part of CE's secret is probably that it is a fairly active realm with a lot of player participation and buy-in (suggesting that it's probably a pretty fun place to play in actuality).
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 26, 2012, 02:39:57 AM
There are always justifications for getting rid of Dukes. Here's an easy one: You want their power for yourself.
Meh, I'm the King! And they are pretty pro-"do what the King says." It's a sweet gig.
Quote from: Geronus on May 26, 2012, 03:16:09 AM
The day Coria turns against the Empire, I will eat my hat.
There see, now you have to do it just so that you can make me eat my hat. ;D
I bet you don't even have a hat. >:(
I'll buy him one just to watch him eat it :D
Quote from: Sypher on May 25, 2012, 09:01:03 AM
Minas Ithil is allied w/ Darka, Eston, BoM & Hammarsett.
You sure on that one? Sometimes, my BoM character really can't tell. Having a character in both Coria and BoM, I can make a perfect comparison: MI is like the North's Tara.
Quote from: Geronus on May 26, 2012, 03:16:09 AM
The day Coria turns against the Empire, I will eat my hat.
There see, now you have to do it just so that you can make me eat my hat. ;D
Um... for no reason in particular... by "turn against", do you count only actual military action against them? I'm just trying to see how soon you'll need salt and pepper for that hat. ;) Also, if you don't have a hat yet, I'd suggest getting one made out of bacon. (Then, if you do have to eat it, it'll be DELICIOUS. If you don't, well, you've still got an awesome hat.)
Quote from: Eirikr on May 27, 2012, 08:03:09 PM
You sure on that one? Sometimes, my BoM character really can't tell. Having a character in both Coria and BoM, I can make a perfect comparison: MI is like the North's Tara.
That's a terrible comparison. I'm pretty sure Tara at least has a strong army. Coria has a stronger military than Minas Ithil at this point. (As well as the 2nd strongest army/per noble on the continent)
Quote from: Eirikr on May 27, 2012, 08:03:09 PM
Um... for no reason in particular... by "turn against", do you count only actual military action against them?
I kind of fail to see how else it would work. I don't think saying 'no' to them about something really counts as 'turning against' them.
However, you've intrigued me. Maybe I should start looking up recipes for 'hat'.
Quote from: Eirikr on May 27, 2012, 08:03:09 PM
You sure on that one? Sometimes, my BoM character really can't tell. Having a character in both Coria and BoM, I can make a perfect comparison: MI is like the North's Tara.
I don't have much to say either way about the quality of our army currently but MI troops are fighting & dying alongside the other allied armies of the North. But, in my opinion MI being on the North's side is why Hammarsett is on the frontlines instead of BoM. and I say that as the player whose character was King prior to MI's current ruler.
Quote from: Sypher on May 28, 2012, 04:28:35 AM
I don't have much to say either way about the quality of our army currently but MI troops are fighting & dying alongside the other allied armies of the North. But, in my opinion MI being on the North's side is why Hammarsett is on the frontlines instead of BoM. and I say that as the player whose character was King prior to MI's current ruler.
Sound like MI could use a few more Unique Items and a few more nobles eh? ::)
Quote from: Sypher on May 28, 2012, 04:28:35 AM
I don't have much to say either way about the quality of our army currently but MI troops are fighting & dying alongside the other allied armies of the North. But, in my opinion MI being on the North's side is why Hammarsett is on the frontlines instead of BoM. and I say that as the player whose character was King prior to MI's current ruler.
That much is true. I will also give MI a little more credit and say they DO have an army. It just... doesn't happen to be in the same place as everyone else. (I'll be fair, not always. It's been less frequent as of the past few months.)
Today is a day which shall live in infamy...May the religions of Atamara forgive me...
(No spoilers please)
/me is intrigued
I have a distinct feeling this concerns me and I'm vaguely upset
I, for one, am not impressed. This is a dog-and-pony show with no dog and no pony.
What's going on?
It is never good when a Silverfire is scheming...
???
There are times where a Silverfire isn't scheming?
Quote from: Sypher on May 30, 2012, 11:28:51 AM
???
There are times where a Silverfire isn't scheming?
I'm offended. Of course there are a times where a Silverfire is not scheming. Merlin is a just, up right and honest man unlike his brother Brom.
Specifically, those times are when I'm extremely bored....
Then again, I could just be messing with everyone, but we'll just wait and see. (P.S. Did anyone get that guy a hat?)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 30, 2012, 12:42:30 PM
I'm offended. Of course there are a times where a Silverfire is not scheming. Merlin is a just, up right and honest man unlike his brother Brom.
Specifically, those times are when I'm extremely bored....
Then again, I could just be messing with everyone, but we'll just wait and see. (P.S. Did anyone get that guy a hat?)
*Looks around nervously
Nothing looks any different... Honestly I'm sorting of expecting pigs to fly or hell to freeze over or something.
Quote from: Geronus on May 30, 2012, 03:37:27 PM
*Looks around nervously
Nothing looks any different... Honestly I'm sorting of expecting pigs to fly or hell to freeze over or something.
Meh, Battlemaster is a slow game. Don't expect to see anything for at least a week or two. I was just marking the date.
On the other hand, I am quite willing to claim credit for any amazing game shifts that anyone else pulls off in the next two weeks.
Bravo, sir. You have them eating out of the palm of your hand.
It is standard for nobles to make outlandish claims that fly in the face of sensible truth and historical accounts?
I've noticed folks often enjoy portraying the absolute insanity and utter hypocrisy of medieval political chaos, though I've yet to see anyone with the coherency to tie it all together realistically. I'm starting to think I should make a half-crazy ultra-religious noble of questionable political intent somewhere as well. No, Hammersett doesn't count; we're all half-crazy there.
Actually, I'd quite enjoy a Priest character. Time to put my novel's insane religion into yet another RP game? I think so!
I'm curious to see where this Iashalur thing is going, as well as Summerdale's recent transferal of land to Astrom.
I'm starting to think I may have joined BM just in time to witness a World-War.
Wrong forum, I think.
This is the other current war ;D
Well his post was atamara at the beginning but dwilight in the end except the last sentence is atamara so its a bit confusing.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 31, 2012, 02:06:20 AM
Meh, Battlemaster is a slow game. Don't expect to see anything for at least a week or two. I was just marking the date.
On the other hand, I am quite willing to claim credit for any amazing game shifts that anyone else pulls off in the next two weeks.
High-five, sir. Credit where credit is due, for sure.
In other news, I would like any realms noticing large, orange-ish, swirling portals opening up in their realms to ignore them... They're... uh... decorations for the upcoming tournament.
Quote from: Eirikr on June 02, 2012, 12:10:47 AM
High-five, sir. Credit where credit is due, for sure.
In other news, I would like any realms noticing large, orange-ish, swirling portals opening up in their realms to ignore them... They're... uh... decorations for the upcoming tournament.
I said no spoilers.... :(
I see that Coria is on phase III already. ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on June 03, 2012, 05:10:02 AM
I see that Coria is on phase III already. ;D
Can someone tell me what phase I, and II were? (As well as III) No one seems to tell me what goes on in Coria anymore, and I'm feeling a bit left out....
Although if the phases go something like this, it would probably make sense:
Phase 1: ________
Phase 2: ?????????
Phase 3: Profit!!!!!!
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 03, 2012, 05:30:56 AM
Can someone tell me what phase I, and II were? (As well as III) No one seems to tell me what goes on in Coria anymore, and I'm feeling a bit left out....
All I know is that Phase IV is where the Duchy of Frektopis (btw, what in the world??) changes allegiance to Eston...
Quote from: Perth on June 03, 2012, 07:52:01 AM
All I know is that Phase IV is where the Duchy of Frektopis (btw, what in the world??) changes allegiance to Eston...
Wasn't the phase IV when they discover the gunpowder?
Figures......
Oh we've already discovered gunpowder. Merlin almost blew himself to pieces with it. Merlin, just because your ego is bomb-proof does not mean that your whole body is. :D
Quote from: Perth on June 03, 2012, 07:52:01 AM
All I know is that Phase IV is where the Duchy of Frektopis (btw, what in the world??) changes allegiance to Eston...
I have my reasons, leave me alone. I like the name. Took me a bit of time to come up with to.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 03, 2012, 06:58:52 PM
I have my reasons, leave me alone. I like the name. Took me a bit of time to come up with to.
Hmm, "vrek" means "to die". Any connection?
Quote from: Bael on June 03, 2012, 07:18:32 PM
Hmm, "vrek" means "to die". Any connection?
No, but etymology is a good start.
Its not exact etymologically correct, as I made some changes, but it is close.
He's a super freak! Super freak! He's super freaky!
All I'm saying is its better than always seeing Duke of Barad Falas, Margrave of Barad Falas, and that same thing copied for essentially everyone on Atamara based upon what city they are Duke of.
You could have named it the Duchy of Barad Gardor, to confuse and disorient our enemies.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 03, 2012, 07:32:21 PM
always seeing Duke of Barad Falas, Margrave of Barad Falas
Are there any instances yet of Duke and Margrave being different people anywhere? I'm sure there may be one or two, but I haven't seen any yet. Just curious.
There are several on Dwilight. Solaria, and maybe Terran? I would do it in Libidizedd if we had more nobles.
Quote from: Indirik on June 03, 2012, 10:42:22 PM
There are several on Dwilight. Solaria, and maybe Terran? I would do it in Libidizedd if we had more nobles.
Not Terran; I'm in Terran.
Askileon has Saul as Duke and Mathieu as Margrave since a few days ago.
Derp.
Too many wars, too many servers... :P
Quote from: Ehndras on June 05, 2012, 08:35:24 PM
Derp.
Too many wars, too many servers... :P
Really?....and where are the battles?
Quote from: Sonya on June 06, 2012, 05:41:03 AM
Really?....and where are the battles?
In Hammarsett
Terran-Kabrinskia-Astrom-Asylon-Etc cluster!@#$, Hammersett gangbang by 3 nations (just lost my home region :'( There goes tomorrow's taxes...), and I'm keeping an eye on Belluaterra conflict for my soon-to-arrive character - of course, once the admins approve his name change so I can actually GO to Bellua.
Might just make a new char...
Quote from: Ehndras on June 06, 2012, 04:43:21 PM
Hammersett gangbang by 3 nations (just lost my home region :'( There goes tomorrow's taxes...),
Well you started this whole war and tried to GB us , so I believe that we aren't GB'ing nobody. You just choosed one side and the other side just wants to revenge.
War is plentifull in some cases.
I have no idea, honestly. All I know is 3 nations are raping Hammersett constantly, our allies are down south somewhere doing who knows what, most of us are bankrupt, and all the regions surrounding our capitol are rogue.
I paused that char and just made a new one in Arcea to freshen things up with a new server. Hammersett was fun until the nobles stopped communicating and we got steamrolled while our leadership apparently sat on their thumbs. No communication at all is not a way to run your nation while expecting everyone to be able to follow ultra-outdated orders that keep coming from different sources. F*cking confusing, I'll say. My first realm was at peace and communicated more than Hammersett does at thing moment. I don't know, I'm no Lord, but at least give your folks a head's up once in a while to let them know you haven't completely abandoned them. <_<
Yeah... Hammarpeeps are in a bad situation. It's like that scene from Monty Python, with one old guy crying out "We're not dead yet!"
Our current leadership isn't doing much as far as I can tell. I'm doing my little thing as a Judge and not much else ever since Crownguard demoted me out of the leadership of the Order of the Raven, which is where pretty much all the military planning happens anyway. AT least I hope there's planning happening there, because I know for a fact it's not happening anywhere else in Hammarsett. Even the closed councils are quiet.
There is a bit of infighting going on right now in the Raven as well as in Darka. BoM and MI are trying to get things going, but there's not much cooperation from Hammarpeeps.
Quote from: Indirik on June 06, 2012, 07:19:50 PM
There is a bit of infighting going on right now in the Raven as well as in Darka. BoM and MI are trying to get things going, but there's not much cooperation from Hammarpeeps.
Well that just seems silly, doesn't it? Of course Cirytan is also down with a nasty wound (no thanks to you, Peristalticos!). Once he's back I am hopeful that he'll get things going. He's a pretty active military leader everywhere I've run into that player and had just been put into position shortly before getting stabbed.
At last, the silence has been broken!
Huge Battle Fought
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Cantril:
Eston vs. Cagilan Empire, Talerium
Estimated strengths: 1060 men vs. 1120 men
Now add Darka+BoM and you will have a War going on!
peace!
The real troop numbers were more like 1320 v 960 or so. Impressive battle. CE/Tal's line settings were a shambles, contributing to a literally smashing victory by Eston. I hope Eston can capitalize on this and make some advances.
Quote from: Indirik on June 12, 2012, 07:52:58 PM
The real troop numbers were more like 1320 v 960 or so. Impressive battle. CE/Tal's line settings were a shambles, contributing to a literally smashing victory by Eston. I hope Eston can capitalize on this and make some advances.
Agreed. If they can start winning the war in the West on a consistent basis, the entire war will have changed.
Quote from: Uzamaki on June 12, 2012, 07:59:06 PM
Agreed. If they can start winning the war in the West on a consistent basis, the entire war will have changed.
ha! If Eston starts winning consistently in the west, the war doesn't change, it just stagnates again. Right now CE-bloc has the advantage. If it begins switching the other way, then it just goes closer to more even.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 12, 2012, 10:56:10 PM
ha! If Eston starts winning consistently in the west, the war doesn't change, it just stagnates again. Right now CE-bloc has the advantage. If it begins switching the other way, then it just goes closer to more even.
Could anything make this war more interesting at this point?
Quote from: Geronus on June 13, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
Could anything make this war more interesting at this point?
CE Declares Hegemony over Atamara and war on Tara.
Quote from: Geronus on June 13, 2012, 12:13:25 AM
Could anything make this war more interesting at this point?
Secessions from CE. Eston declaring war on Coria or Darka on Talerium. Tara/CE declaring war on their allies and switching sides. Suville making everyone mad and becoming the next Abington.
And the list goes on...
...Anything that might actually happen? :'(
Other than Suville becoming the next Abington that is.
Don't get excited, we caught them off guard. Nothing more, really.
Unfortunately.
Quote from: Uzamaki on June 13, 2012, 12:35:25 AM
Eston declaring war on Coria or Darka on Talerium.
THIS!
Will be one of the main thing the north is losing the war, if the northern alliance were serious on this war from the beginning things would be different.
Quote from: Indirik on June 12, 2012, 07:52:58 PM
The real troop numbers were more like 1320 v 960 or so.
These are the problem with gossips...the farther you are the more exaggerated it becomes, when this news reaches FEI they will talk about 18,800cs vs 19,400cs.....
Peace!
I miss the war islands, where the pure war action was not hindered by all this diplomacy, and I'm from CE. Rules were simple - anything above war status was impossible and there was only 1 victor.
It's interesting how no one has yet to mention the fact that Hammarsett is down to TWO regions.
If you guys spent half as much effort on the game as you do propagandizing on the forums, your realms might be in a better position. 8)
Quote from: GoldPanda on June 13, 2012, 07:24:09 AM
It's interesting how no one has yet to mention the fact that Hammarsett is down to TWO regions.
If you guys spent half as much effort on the game as you do propagandizing on the forums, your realms might be in a better position. 8)
Actually, I don't think Hammarsett has much of a presence on the forums that I've noticed.
Quote from: Perth on June 13, 2012, 08:17:59 AM
Actually, I don't think Hammarsett has much of a presence on the forums that I've noticed.
*points at Geronus*
Please tell me I'm being trolled. :o
Quote from: GoldPanda on June 13, 2012, 09:50:05 AM
*points at Geronus*
Please tell me I'm being trolled. :o
One guy...
It's a small realm. If forum participation were proportional to noble count, both CE and Eston would have three to four players here.
Quote from: GoldPanda on June 13, 2012, 07:24:09 AM
It's interesting how no one has yet to mention the fact that Hammarsett is down to TWO regions.
If you guys spent half as much effort on the game as you do propagandizing on the forums, your realms might be in a better position. 8)
I don't think I've been doing much propagandizing lately. Also, we only ever had 5 regions to begin with. 8) Hammarsett isn't actually very interesting to me these days. I just got appointed banker which gives me something to do alright, but Crownguard cut me out of the Order of the Raven a while after I stepped down as King so I've had absolutely no knowledge of or input into our military strategy for quite a while. That said, we seem to be making a hash of things don't we?
I am strongly considering abandoning Atamara for good, not because my realm is getting stomped on a bit, but because I'm bored. I mean, if
this war couldn't hold my interest, I don't think anything short of a full scale daimon invasion could rescue this island from banality in my eyes.
Quote from: Geronus on June 13, 2012, 02:17:49 PM
I don't think anything short of a full scale daimon invasion could rescue this island from banality in my eyes.
You may yet get to test that theory.
Quote from: Marlboro on June 13, 2012, 08:43:53 PM
You may yet get to test that theory.
That would be awesome if it happened.
Quote from: Marlboro on June 13, 2012, 08:43:53 PM
You may yet get to test that theory.
Hey now, we're not dead yet! ;)
Quote from: Lorgan on June 13, 2012, 09:44:19 PM
Hey now, we're not dead yet! ;)
Hurry up and die already so the daimons can come to Atamara. ;)
Quote from: Uzamaki on June 13, 2012, 12:35:25 AM
Secessions from CE. Eston declaring war on Coria or Darka on Talerium. Tara/CE declaring war on their allies and switching sides. Suville making everyone mad and becoming the next Abington.
And the list goes on...
Well CE is so confident that they just rebuffed an alliance with Suville.
Tara remains hostile to Suville
Talerium continues to try to assassinate our nobles.
Strombran wants to be friends.
I'm guessing that this war is going to get interesting very soon.
Quote from: Darksun on June 13, 2012, 11:29:03 PM
Talerium continues to try to assassinate our nobles.
That's nothing new. Talerium is a haven for infils. They are well known for stabbing anything they feel like stabbing, with no repercussions.
Quote from: Darksun on June 13, 2012, 11:29:03 PM
Well CE is so confident that they just rebuffed an alliance with Suville.
Tara remains hostile to Suville
Talerium continues to try to assassinate our nobles.
Strombran wants to be friends.
I'm guessing that this war is going to get interesting very soon.
Go Tara and Talerium!!!!
Quote from: Darksun on June 13, 2012, 11:29:03 PM
Well CE is so confident that they just rebuffed an alliance with Suville.
Tara remains hostile to Suville
Talerium continues to try to assassinate our nobles.
Strombran wants to be friends.
I'm guessing that this war is going to get interesting very soon.
Really? When did CE rebuff an alliance with Suville?
I would really like to see proof of this and unless you can provide said proof I strongly suggest not making !@#$ up.
While I don't appreaciate the tone of your remark, I will provide you with proof you have requested. I've placed some bold marks around the important parts.
QuoteAmbassador Kindel,
I have sent forward your wishes for better relations and inquiry as to an alliance between our Realms. This has led to much discussion within the Senate. Frankly, it has gotten more discussion than any topic for some time.
That said, the will of the Senate is not currently in favor of joining into an alliance with Suville. The Senate wishes to keep our good relations with Suville and maintain our current relations of peace with Suville. This said they have not ruled out the possibility of our relations improving over time. It was not long ago Suville was involved in a war against the Empire and memories of this need time to fade. While we recognize you ultimately realized it was an unwarranted war and Suville corrected it's stance, there are those that wish to see how Suville conducts herself going forward before entering into an alliance.
I would suggest that you improve relations with Tara and seek out our other allies. Perhaps if you can sway them, those within the Empire that question increasing relations will have a change of heart.
I am always open to dialog that will improve relations with other Realms.
Best Regards,
Milan Prestongreen
Ambassador of Cagilan Empire
Perhaps some salt and pepper will help that crow go down a little easier.
that is very interesting... and nothing wrong with my tone just the way I talk usually.
Quote from: Forbes Family on June 14, 2012, 07:24:52 PM
that is very interesting... and nothing wrong with my tone just the way I talk usually.
Actually there was a lot wrong with your tone and, just because it's the way you talk normally, that doesn't mean it's acceptable...
It was indeed highly disrespectful.
Quote from: Forbes Family on June 14, 2012, 07:24:52 PM
that is very interesting... and nothing wrong with my tone just the way I talk usually.
This is what is wrong with your tone:
Quote from: Forbes Family on June 14, 2012, 02:04:05 PM
unless you can provide said proof I strongly suggest not making !@#$ up.
Your statement would have been just fine, and lost nothing of value, if you left it like this:
Quote from: Forbes Family on June 14, 2012, 02:04:05 PM
Really? When did CE rebuff an alliance with Suville?
I would really like to see proof of this.
Now, can we get back on topic?
Shouldn't IC messages stay in-game? If anything, forums facilitated OOC information exchange and possible abuse. I for one, didn't know anything Suville-CE talks. I'll go tell all my friends!
Quote from: Radigand on June 14, 2012, 09:41:44 PM
Shouldn't IC messages stay in-game? If anything, forums facilitated OOC information exchange and possible abuse. I for one, didn't know anything Suville-CE talks. I'll go tell all my friends!
Everything on the forums is OOC knowledge, and should
never be used by your characters IG. I recognize that no one is perfect and that there's a certain inevitable amount of slipping that will occur, but you should never intentionally use OOC knowledge gained on the forums IG.
As a rule of thumb, I try not to share anything important on the forum that might affect ongoing events, though I do enjoy discussing events after the fact to get other players' perspectives on things.
Quote from: Geronus on June 14, 2012, 11:15:41 PM
Everything on the forums is OOC knowledge, and should never be used by your characters IG. I recognize that no one is perfect and that there's a certain inevitable amount of slipping that will occur, but you should never intentionally use OOC knowledge gained on the forums IG.
As a rule of thumb, I try not to share anything important on the forum that might affect ongoing events, though I do enjoy discussing events after the fact to get other players' perspectives on things.
Its a good thing all my characters can read minds and see all letters foreign rulers write!!! mwahahaha!
Quote from: Geronus on June 14, 2012, 11:15:41 PM
As a rule of thumb, I try not to share anything important on the forum that might affect ongoing events, though I do enjoy discussing events after the fact to get other players' perspectives on things.
+1 on this, I really like hearing what went on behind the scenes even if it's way after the fact. Adds some context to everything even if my characters don't know. This is the chief reason I like the forums.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 15, 2012, 01:05:51 AM
Its a good thing all my characters can read minds and see all letters foreign rulers write!!! mwahahaha!
I can vouch for this claim; it's true. It sucks.
Can you use mentor points to see letters, or just scribe notes?
Scribe notes only.
So, anyone else notice and think it's hilarious how Suville is losing battles to Carelia?
Quote from: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
So, anyone else notice and think it's hilarious how Suville is losing battles to Carelia?
I do. Good for the Northern Alliance though.
Quote from: Uzamaki on June 29, 2012, 06:45:54 PM
I do. Good for the Northern Alliance though.
It is? ??? Am I missing something?
Quote from: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 06:47:40 PM
It is? ??? Am I missing something?
Suville allied with Coria.
Quote from: Uzamaki on June 29, 2012, 06:49:32 PM
Suville allied with Coria.
Oh, look at that. I am missing something.
Quote from: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 06:38:55 PM
So, anyone else notice and think it's hilarious how Suville is losing battles to Carelia?
Yeah, we have not even close to the same military size as Suville and the last 2 (or 3?) battles we have won. According to week old statistics you guys had 42k CS, even if only half of that is mobile Suville should be winning.
Quote from: Penchant on June 29, 2012, 09:03:50 PM
Yeah, we have not even close to the same military size as Suville and the last 2 (or 3?) battles we have won. According to week old statistics you guys had 42k CS, even if only half of that is mobile Suville should be winning.
I left Suville weeks ago, but based on my experience while I was there, I'm not that surprised about the recent battles. So much for Suville being the next Abington! ;D
Quote from: Geronus on June 29, 2012, 09:41:00 PM
I left Suville weeks ago, but based on my experience while I was there, I'm not that surprised about the recent battles. So much for Suville being the next Abington! ;D
Suville isn't the next Abington. That's just more propaganda.
Then again, if you are making the allusion that they grew strong then died out.....welll....perhaps it is a good statement.
We'll see how things go though if they continue to lose to a much weaker realm.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 30, 2012, 12:10:44 AM
Suville isn't the next Abington. That's just more propaganda.
Then again, if you are making the allusion that they grew strong then died out.....welll....perhaps it is a good statement.
We'll see how things go though if they continue to lose to a much weaker realm.
Yeah I didn't mean to imply that they thought of themselves that way. It's a comparison that has been made OOC at least based purely on geography.
It is unlikely a realm the size of Carelia can keep up a war against a realm of the size of Suville. Especially with the new estate system benefitting larger realms, and with Suville's capital so close by. Been a fun run though, there's some satisfaction in grabbing any victory as the underdog.
And who knows, perhaps Evgenis shall lead his chosen ones to more glory through valor. :P
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 30, 2012, 03:03:16 AM
Today is a day which shall live in infamy...May the religions of Atamara forgive me...
(No spoilers please)
I believe it's safe to say that nothing came out of this by now, after a month of, err... nothing.
It was fun watching you people lap it up though. Can I try too?
DOOM. OOOOooooOOOOooooOOoooo.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 02, 2012, 07:51:53 AM
I believe it's safe to say that nothing came out of this by now, after a month of, err... nothing.
It was fun watching you people lap it up though. Can I try too?
DOOM. OOOOooooOOOOooooOOoooo.
I wouldn't count those chickens before they hatch, if I were you....
Quote from: Perth on July 02, 2012, 08:15:43 AM
I wouldn't count those chickens before they hatch, if I were you....
Well then hurry up and explode something. I'm bored, and my hat's not going to eat itself.
Quote from: Geronus on July 02, 2012, 09:01:22 PM
Well then hurry up and explode something. I'm bored, and my hat's not going to eat itself.
I know exactly who to blame for this. I had everything planned out and things were going well but a certain somebody screwed it all up.
QuoteBattle in Crahandan (19 hours, 46 minutes ago)
Strombran, Tara vs. Hammarsett, Minas Ithil
Estimated strengths: 920 men vs. 560 men
The Army of Ered Luin (Tara), sponsored by Regstav Pryde, Duke of Foda, Margrave of Foda, were led into battle by Marshal Sarek Vulcan.
The Legion of Minas Ithil (Minas Ithil), sponsored by Raoul De La Fere, Duke of Leohampton, Margrave of Leohampton, were led into battle by Marshal Trpimir Svebor Lux.
The First Ithillian Dragoons (Minas Ithil), sponsored by ted zepplins, Duke of York, Margrave of York, were led into battle by Marshal Raziel III Himoura.
Felix Harrow, Baron of Cori is spotted wielding the Ornate Arrow of Destruction.
Boris Hauptman of Minas Ithil (Knight of Nemaha, Minas Ithil) was captured by Sarek Vulcan's unit.
Attacker Victory!
This not surprising but this battle below is impossible. So many lost to so few :o
QuoteHuge Battle Fought (7 hours, 49 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Lurgrod:
Suville vs. Carelia
Estimated strengths: 740 men vs. 660 men
The Hammers of Carelia (Carelia), sponsored by Karandras Ulthran, Judge of Carelia, Duchess of Sullenport, Margravine of Sullenport, were led into battle by Marshal Richard Leonecoeur Silver.
Jareth La Pointe (Knight of Sudfern) is spotted wielding the Emerald-Studded Sword of Unlife.
Trager Maximoff, Margrave of Dampinn is spotted wearing the Blessed Vest from the North.
Eoin Gabhann, Treasurer of Carelia is spotted wearing the Circlet of Warding.
John derik (Knight of Bolgar) is spotted wearing the Elemental Gauntlets of the Maiden.
Vorg Vorgon of Carelia (Lord of Carelia) was captured by John Hampton Stormclaw's unit.
Defender Victory!
Dug-in defenders always have the advantage, even against a force that's 11% larger than itself. Besides, the (estimated) eighty-man difference is meaningless without knowing the CS of both sides. The raw headcount almost doesn't matter at all.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 03, 2012, 01:12:06 AM
I know exactly who to blame for this. I had everything planned out and things were going well but a certain somebody screwed it all up.
Seriously, you're letting me down here, and not only because my hat is looking more delicious every day. The way things are going the next month at least is going to be nothing more interesting than Hammarsett's prolonged death, with everything stalemated everywhere else. Considering that that is also easily how you could describe the last
six months, I'd say we're in a pretty bad rut war or no war, wouldn't you?
MAKE SOMETHING HAPPEN, DAMNIT! >:(
Well, things did get interesting behind closed doors up north for a few days but seems like everyone has calmed down now. If it had worked, Dante would be bragging right now. It was a good try though.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 03, 2012, 01:12:06 AM
I know exactly who to blame for this. I had everything planned out and things were going well but a certain somebody screwed it all up.
Don't look at me, man.
Quote from: Sypher on July 03, 2012, 05:01:28 AM
Well, things did get interesting behind closed doors up north for a few days but seems like everyone has calmed down now. If it had worked, Dante would be bragging right now. It was a good try though.
Cause the North is full of a bunch of stubborn ole' sourpusses!
Who stick with their words :) Cause thats pretty much only thing what is keeping us together.
Quote from: jaune on July 03, 2012, 09:20:16 AM
Who stick with their words :) Cause thats pretty much only thing what is keeping us together.
To what end?
Heh, if i start to swallow my promises to make my life easy, i would shake hand with Tallies and hump Estons butt and slap high five with CE.
Promises and old principles are important. Without those we do not need to even play this game. I do back up Jaune for this. :)
On the other hand, it would make AT far more interesting if people were less stuck in their ways and defined by relationships that have existed for years. Take a chance maybe? As much as it would screw my side, I'd love to see Darka stab Eston in the back (again). The Northern Alliance would roll up faster than window shade, but at least something would happen.
Quote from: Sypher on July 03, 2012, 05:01:28 AM
Well, things did get interesting behind closed doors up north for a few days but seems like everyone has calmed down now. If it had worked, Dante would be bragging right now. It was a good try though.
Meh..from my point of view it was an offer from someone who lacked the authority to actually hold up his end of the bargain. So no wonder the idea died down.
Quote from: jaune on July 03, 2012, 09:20:16 AM
Who stick with their words :) Cause thats pretty much only thing what is keeping us together.
That's a load of BS.
The only thing keeping the North together is the collective fear of destruction at the hand of CE. To say that they are honorable and keep their word is crazy. The north is renowned for fighting each other and taking lands from allies all the time. If it wasn't for CE, that's exactly what they'd be doing right now.
Hey! That's an honorable noble pasttime!
Quote from: Indirik on July 03, 2012, 11:36:38 PM
Hey! That's an honorable noble pasttime!
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for stabbing people in the back, I played a character in Luria for a while. I'm just saying that's how the North was before they decided to get all noble and fight the big bad wolf.
Quote from: LilWolf on July 03, 2012, 04:07:34 PM
Meh..from my point of view it was an offer from someone who lacked the authority to actually hold up his end of the bargain. So no wonder the idea died down.
Think what you will, but you're wrong.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 03, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
That's a load of BS.
The only thing keeping the North together is the collective fear of destruction at the hand of CE. To say that they are honorable and keep their word is crazy. The north is renowned for fighting each other and taking lands from allies all the time. If it wasn't for CE, that's exactly what they'd be doing right now.
Yeah, and that actually sounds fun, unlike this terribly boring war of attrition. Someone switch sides already, or do something, anything to liven this mausoleum up!
When I ruled Hammarsett I took a big risk and declared war on half the island when I really didn't need to, out of (IC) principle and (OOC) desire to shake things up, and for a little while at least it livened things up for Hammarsett and hopefully for some other realms as well (though now it's sunk into a kind of rut). I wish more rulers would consider taking such steps even if it would put their realm at risk.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 03, 2012, 11:25:20 PM
The north is renowned for fighting each other and taking lands from allies all the time. If it wasn't for CE, that's exactly what they'd be doing right now.
No kidding.
The Darkan King has the nerve to preach to my face about how we need be "trustworthy" and stuff while Darkan banners still fly over Massillion. What a freaking insult.
Quote from: LilWolf on July 03, 2012, 04:07:34 PM
Meh..from my point of view it was an offer from someone who lacked the authority to actually hold up his end of the bargain. So no wonder the idea died down.
He's the Duke of Barad Falas... in a realm that consist almost completely out of the Duchy of Barad Falas.... what?
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 12:47:50 AM
He's the Duke of Barad Falas... in a realm that consist almost completely out of the Duchy of Barad Falas.... what?
Not ruler so as far as diplomacy between realms go he's a nobody.
I heard long ago about a "HAT" eating contest somewhere.....i'm about to change channel... nothing happening here...
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 12:47:50 AM
He's the Duke of Barad Falas... in a realm that consist almost completely out of the Duchy of Barad Falas.... what?
btw, my city's tax this week: 4673. Tell me I'm not powerful.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 01:19:51 AM
btw, my city's tax this week: 4673. Tell me I'm not powerful.
You can't actually push the diplomacy buttons! That means there is no way you could have any influence over the diplomacy of your realm at all!! Haha! You unpowerful nobody!
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 01:24:03 AM
That means there is no way you could have any influence over the diplomacy of your realm at all!!
Not true, if he used his money and position to influence enough of the realm's members, I would think that the ruler would be influenced to do that particular diplomacy level though that still doesn't gurantee it to happen.
Quote from: Penchant on July 04, 2012, 01:29:17 AM
Not true, if he used his money and position to influence enough of the realm's members, I would think that the ruler would be influenced to do that particular diplomacy level though that still doesn't gurantee it to happen.
>_>
I was being sarcastic.
It's exactly that guarantee that's the issue. It all comes down to this: if it's not the ruler that agrees, it's worthless. If you really have the pull to get the ruler to agree, then get it, then come talk.
Quote from: Indirik on July 04, 2012, 01:34:11 AM
It's exactly that guarantee that's the issue. It all comes down to this: if it's not the ruler that agrees, it's worthless. If you really have the pull to get the ruler to agree, then get it, then come talk.
Very true.
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 01:31:26 AM
>_>
I was being sarcastic.
After rereading your post, I feel dumb for not realizing that.
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 01:24:03 AM
You can't actually push the diplomacy buttons! That means there is no way you could have any influence over the diplomacy of your realm at all!! Haha! You unpowerful nobody!
Fine, be that way:
1. Everyone in my duchy assign to this new army I made.
2. Assign myself as Marshal
3. Orders: "Everyone assign your men to murderous, and rally in Eston."
4. ? ? ? ? ?
5. Profit.
Quote from: Indirik on July 04, 2012, 01:34:11 AM
It's exactly that guarantee that's the issue. It all comes down to this: if it's not the ruler that agrees, it's worthless. If you really have the pull to get the ruler to agree, then get it, then come talk.
Realm's on Atamara don't have Rulers, they have puppets. Why do you think CE's Senate has so many strings attached to the ends of their fingers?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 02:07:03 AM
Realm's on Atamara don't have Rulers, they have puppets. Why do you think CE's Senate has so many strings attached to the ends of their fingers?
My cynical bias against Atamara requires me to +1 this.
But, to the question at hand, I agree with Indirik. For one thing, I've been that Duke. Probably not as powerful, no, but let me put it to you this way - say you go to your Ruler with your super awesome ploy and he turns you down flat? What are you gonna do? Secede and completely blow up your realm? Rebel, and sort of blow up your realm? Sure you've got some leverage, but all the buttons you could push to really make your Ruler hurt involve hurting your realm too to some extent. Or a large extent, probably.
As another Ruler, a deal's not a deal until I hear it from a fellow Ruler, at least not a deal between realms. Anyone else and you don't know if they can back up what they're promising. If you think you had the leverage to get your ruler to agree to your plan, you should have had him contact your negotiating partners and state as much.
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 02:36:28 AM
My cynical bias against Atamara requires me to +1 this.
But, to the question at hand, I agree with Indirik. For one thing, I've been that Duke. Probably not as powerful, no, but let me put it to you this way - say you go to your Ruler with your super awesome ploy and he turns you down flat? What are you gonna do? Secede and completely blow up your realm? Rebel, and sort of blow up your realm? Sure you've got some leverage, but all the buttons you could push to really make your Ruler hurt involve hurting your realm too to some extent. Or a large extent, probably.
As another Ruler, a deal's not a deal until I hear it from a fellow Ruler, at least not a deal between realms. Anyone else and you don't know if they can back up what they're promising. If you think you had the leverage to get your ruler to agree to your plan, you should have had him contact your negotiating partners and state as much.
Who is to say my ruler doesn't okay what I say ahead of time, or tell me to say certain things myself on purpose so the "ruler" themselves isn't the one to say the thing?
Also, who said anything about a deal between realms?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 02:41:03 AM
Also, who said anything about a deal between realms?
Whoever mentioned the need to change diplomacy.
Quote from: Penchant on July 04, 2012, 02:44:01 AM
Whoever mentioned the need to change diplomacy.
Well changing diplomacy is not really necessary for the most part early on.
Meh, said too much already. Anyway, I'll leave it at this, and the north can go back to being the ones at fault for making sure no one has any fun for the next year.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 02:41:03 AM
Who is to say my ruler doesn't okay what I say ahead of time, or tell me to say certain things myself on purpose so the "ruler" themselves isn't the one to say the thing?
Also, who said anything about a deal between realms?
If that's the case, why didn't you have your Ruler state that to the other Rulers in the first place?
As for plausible deniability, well, that will only get you so far. Rulers of enemy realms are hardly likely to commit themselves in writing to something underhanded if those letters could plausibly be used against them. Serious negotiations require serious negotiators, and there has to be an implicit understanding that the other guy is empowered to speak for his realm. Otherwise you're not making a deal with Coria, you're making a deal with the Duke of Barad Falas, which is a very different proposition.
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 02:57:32 AM
If that's the case, why didn't you have your Ruler state that to the other Rulers in the first place?
As for plausible deniability, well, that will only get you so far. Rulers of enemy realms are hardly likely to commit themselves in writing to something underhanded if those letters could plausibly be used against them. Serious negotiations require serious negotiators, and there has to be an implicit understanding that the other guy is empowered to speak for his realm. Otherwise you're not making a deal with Coria, you're making a deal with the Duke of Barad Falas, which is a very different proposition.
All I'm gonna say is that the people involved knew quite clearly who they were making a deal with.
Doesn't sound like they felt the same way?
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 03:02:29 AM
Doesn't sound like they felt the same way?
They're just scared to have fun. I mean the deal was this: All of you turn on each other and fight. We'll leave you alone. The winner gets 10k from me and an alliance.
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 02:36:28 AM
As another Ruler, a deal's not a deal until I hear it from a fellow Ruler, at least not a deal between realms. Anyone else and you don't know if they can back up what they're promising. If you think you had the leverage to get your ruler to agree to your plan, you should have had him contact your negotiating partners and state as much.
This is true, as far as it goes. The other side of the coin is that from the perspective of changing how the war plays out, the Duke of Barad Falas has a lot more actual ability to change things than the Ruler of Coria does, from a button-pushing/resource standpoint (obviously, I have no idea about the personal dynamics/loyalties involved). Rulers are only as powerful as their vassals let them be. Cut deals with the right vassals, and the Ruler is weakened. Make enough of those deals, and they are crippled.
Accepting that reality is one of the reasons Arcaea did so well under Jenred, both internally and from a diplomatic standpoint. This idea that nothing matters if it doesn't come from a Ruler is one of those "polite" fictions that a certain class of people on Atamara adhere to because they like it, just like the bans on assassinating Rulers and other Council members. It's a really odd self-perpetuating phenomenon that hasn't been true in reality for at least four years, and I've been looking forward to someone proving it on AT the way Jenred and others proved it on the Far East.
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 04, 2012, 03:14:25 AM
This is true, as far as it goes. The other side of the coin is that from the perspective of changing how the war plays out, the Duke of Barad Falas has a lot more actual ability to change things than the Ruler of Coria does, from a button-pushing/resource standpoint (obviously, I have no idea about the personal dynamics/loyalties involved). Rulers are only as powerful as their vassals let them be. Cut deals with the right vassals, and the Ruler is weakened. Make enough of those deals, and they are crippled.
Accepting that reality is one of the reasons Arcaea did so well under Jenred, both internally and from a diplomatic standpoint. This idea that nothing matters if it doesn't come from a Ruler is one of those "polite" fictions that a certain class of people on Atamara adhere to because they like it, just like the bans on assassinating Rulers and other Council members. It's a really odd self-perpetuating phenomenon that hasn't been true in reality for at least four years, and I've been looking forward to someone proving it on AT the way Jenred and others proved it on the Far East.
That depends on who goes to whom and what the nature of the deal being offered is. If the Duke is speaking for himself, as in "I will secede my Duchy under x conditions," that's one thing (for example). If some Duke approaches you and offers you a peace deal, you want to know why it's not the Ruler making the offer since the Duke doesn't have the button to do that. For the example Dante just gave, I know I'd be skeptical. He's a Duke in Coria. What proof does anyone have that he can speak for Tara and the Cagilan Empire? For that kind of deal, those are the only realms I care about; Coria is exceedingly small fry compared to them.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 03:07:08 AM
They're just scared to have fun. I mean the deal was this: All of you turn on each other and fight. We'll leave you alone. The winner gets 10k from me and an alliance.
This is just a loser... Where's the gain for your negotiating partners? I admit it would be fun OOC and it would be nice to to have a war that CE doesn't butt into, but IC-wise it would be hard to justify turning on your allies for 10k gold and an alliance with... Coria. I mean come on, it's
incredibly humiliating. "Dance, puppet, and ye shall be spared! Fight for my amusement, and the winner shall earn my favor! Bwahahahaha!"
Also, this is not what I was expecting. You were promising to do something CE wouldn't like or some such, which is why I said I'd eat my hat. I guess it's safe if this is all you had cooking. :(
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 03:20:19 AM
That depends on who goes to whom and what the nature of the deal being offered is. If the Duke is speaking for himself, as in "I will secede my Duchy under x conditions," that's one thing (for example). If some Duke approaches you and offers you a peace deal, you want to know why it's not the Ruler making the offer since the Duke doesn't have the button to do that. For the example Dante just gave, I know I'd be skeptical. He's a Duke in Coria. What proof does anyone have that he can speak for Tara and the Cagilan Empire? For that kind of deal, those are the only realms I care about; Coria is exceedingly small fry compared to them.
If the Rulers of Tara and the Cagilan Empire approached you with any deal that resulted in your current allies being hosed...Wouldn't you be skeptical anyway? Such a deal would last precisely as long as they needed it to in order for the rest of the north to be beaten bloody, and then you would be in an even worse position. You would have no leverage to make them keep the deal, and treaties on Atamara (and, to be fair, anywhere in Battlemaster and in the real world) are merely worth the paper they are written on if you have no leverage. Why would the Rulers of those realms approaching you make you feel any safer? The only consideration I would have is whether you think you have a better chance of stalling now in the hope that something in the war changes, or stalling later in the hope that something causes the bloc to break up before they find a reason to smash you at their leisure. Who does the offering is immaterial, because you wouldn't be in a position to hold them to their word no matter what they said.
The alliance with Coria vs CE or Tara is similarly meaningless. Realms can, have, and will make "alliances" with people they fully intend to annihilate as soon as some condition has been fulfilled.
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 04, 2012, 03:31:50 AM
If the Rulers of Tara and the Cagilan Empire approached you with any deal that resulted in your current allies being hosed...Wouldn't you be skeptical anyway? Such a deal would last precisely as long as they needed it to in order for the rest of the north to be beaten bloody, and then you would be in an even worse position. You would have no leverage to make them keep the deal, and treaties on Atamara (and, to be fair, anywhere in Battlemaster and in the real world) are merely worth the paper they are written on if you have no leverage. Why would the Rulers of those realms approaching you make you feel any safer? The only consideration I would have is whether you think you have a better chance of stalling now in the hope that something in the war changes, or stalling later in the hope that something causes the bloc to break up before they find a reason to smash you at their leisure. Who does the offering is immaterial, because you wouldn't be in a position to hold them to their word no matter what they said.
The alliance with Coria vs CE or Tara is similarly meaningless. Realms can, have, and will make "alliances" with people they fully intend to annihilate as soon as some condition has been fulfilled.
Can a Mod delete this please? I mean he's obviously ruining my plans by making obvious OOC information readily available in an OOC manner, which may convince those I'm negotiating with to not negotiate with me. (Just Kidding, this is all a joke)
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 03:25:51 AM
This is just a loser... Where's the gain for your negotiating partners? I admit it would be fun OOC and it would be nice to to have a war that CE doesn't butt into, but IC-wise it would be hard to justify turning on your allies for 10k gold and an alliance with... Coria. I mean come on, it's incredibly humiliating. "Dance, puppet, and ye shall be spared! Fight for my amusement, and the winner shall earn my favor! Bwahahahaha!"
Also, this is not what I was expecting. You were promising to do something CE wouldn't like or some such, which is why I said I'd eat my hat. I guess it's safe if this is all you had cooking. :(
Fine....I thought it was a great deal. I even had a surprise involved. Whoever won got to be my vassal. Seems pretty good to me. They may even get to eat at the same table as me during feasts. If I'm feeling good that day.
haha. well, the war could use a shake up but most realms are pretty committed to their position. If any realm is going to change things up, I believe its going to be Suville or Caergoth.
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 12:47:50 AM
No kidding.
The Darkan King has the nerve to preach to my face about how we need be "trustworthy" and stuff while Darkan banners still fly over Massillion. What a freaking insult.
And why you think Darka invaded Massilion? Could it be lack of trust? Could it be that Eston general was planning and organizing attack to Darka? Could it be that Eston ignored Darkas wish not to enter federation with their old war buddy?
Eston has ignored Darka for a long time, only time they remember that Darka exist is when they need something from it...
Again and again, Darka has put Eston over Talerium, Darkas another ally... And what we get from that? You yet again get new ally which you place above Darka. Makes me wonder WHY Darka needs to defend Eston... i guess only reason is that we dont want Coria or CE to be our neighbour. We have chosen less bad option... but who knows, wider border with Talerium could be nice :)
-Jaune
QuoteAgain and again, Darka has put Eston over Talerium, Darkas another ally... You yet again get new ally which you place above Darka.
Yikes. Be careful, Eston. Darka sounds like the jealous type...
Quote from: Perth on July 04, 2012, 12:47:50 AM
No kidding.
The Darkan King has the nerve to preach to my face about how we need be "trustworthy" and stuff while Darkan banners still fly over Massillion. What a freaking insult.
So Massilion can have the same fate as Cantril?
Cantril has been a region of Talerium for as long as I've been playing this game. So it's not a fair comparison.
Also, Eston was in a federation with BoM and Norland long before Darka attacked Masillion. Darka chose to attack Eston when Eston's allies were busy defending Falasan against CE. They took the Masillion duchy when they knew that they would get away with it, plain and simple.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 04, 2012, 01:25:55 PM
Also, Eston was in a federation with BoM and Norland long before Darka attacked Masillion. Darka chose to attack Eston when Eston's allies were busy defending Falasan against CE. They took the Masillion duchy when they knew that they would get away with it, plain and simple.
As I was the ruler of Darka back then I can tell you we didn't give a damn what Estons allies were doing(well, apart from Talerium, but they were our ally as well). What we cared about was them plotting an attack against us. We just made the first move to knock some sense into Eston about not listening to Norland.
As a result Eston lost Malor, Tintar and Massillion. In the peace treaty they renounced any and all claim to those regions. In exchange Darka paid them a sizable amount of gold and helped them take Amriel, Barad Riel, Elost, Moramroth, Hernepoole, Ashmoor and I think even Belegrond. Eston could have had Brackhead too. We essentially offered them the entire Norland on a silver platter.
So forgive me about being tired of hearing poor Eston complaining about losing three regions when in return they gained two times what they lost. I fully consider Massillion duchy payment for mercenary services Darka gave Eston.
How powerful is CE really?
Quote from: Bedwyr on July 04, 2012, 03:31:50 AM
If the Rulers of Tara and the Cagilan Empire approached you with any deal that resulted in your current allies being hosed...Wouldn't you be skeptical anyway? Such a deal would last precisely as long as they needed it to in order for the rest of the north to be beaten bloody, and then you would be in an even worse position. You would have no leverage to make them keep the deal, and treaties on Atamara (and, to be fair, anywhere in Battlemaster and in the real world) are merely worth the paper they are written on if you have no leverage. Why would the Rulers of those realms approaching you make you feel any safer? The only consideration I would have is whether you think you have a better chance of stalling now in the hope that something in the war changes, or stalling later in the hope that something causes the bloc to break up before they find a reason to smash you at their leisure. Who does the offering is immaterial, because you wouldn't be in a position to hold them to their word no matter what they said.
The alliance with Coria vs CE or Tara is similarly meaningless. Realms can, have, and will make "alliances" with people they fully intend to annihilate as soon as some condition has been fulfilled.
I didn't say I'd consider taking the deal. I was just pointing out the fallacy of negotiating certain types of agreements with Dukes instead of Rulers. I think it's excellent diplomacy to speak with enemy Dukes - build a rapport and if things start going badly for their realm they can become quite tractable...
Quote from: Foundation on July 04, 2012, 04:35:24 PM
How powerful is CE really?
As powerful as they are perceived to be. Perception is reality.
Quote from: Uzamaki on July 04, 2012, 04:47:21 PM
As powerful as they are perceived to be. Perception is reality.
There's something quite solid backing up that perception though. They have rock-solid alliances with their neighbors, one of whom happens to be Tara, and lets not forget that they're easily the wealthiest and most populous realm on the island. They stop all the statistics charts easily.
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
There's something quite solid backing up that perception though. They have rock-solid alliances with their neighbors, one of whom happens to be Tara, and lets not forget that they're easily the wealthiest and most populous realm on the island. They stop all the statistics charts easily.
Yes. I'm not saying the perceptions are unfounded.
They also have an excellent General who is able to command multiple armies. And excellent marshals for those armies as well.
Quote from: Geronus on July 04, 2012, 04:51:43 PM
There's something quite solid backing up that perception though. They have rock-solid alliances with their neighbors, one of whom happens to be Tara, and lets not forget that they're easily the wealthiest and most populous realm on the island. They stop all the statistics charts easily.
They don't top the relative military strength though. Coria has traditionally held that spot for most of the war, switching off and on with Hammarsett.
But yes, they are quite strong, and can back up their strength with the solid General who is crazy active.
Crazy active, or just plain crazy good? 8)
Quote from: Foundation on July 04, 2012, 05:56:47 PM
Crazy active, or just plain crazy good? 8)
Good, AND crazy active. Although I'm not sure about crazy good.
He is General of CE, and Marshal of Coria's army. He not only converts CE's large resources into success, but makes my job as General incredibly easy in Coria. I pretty much just determine the overall grand strategy of the war, and let him control every day-to-day action of the army. While I know this is the intent of the General-Marshal relationship, it isn't always so when there is only one realm army. But, it'd be foolish for me to micromanage more when I don't have the time he does to lead the troops and make orders come out early every turn as they are needed.
I'm probably in the top 5% to 10% percentile in terms of activity, but I wouldn't call that "crazy" active. If you're holding multiple council positions and are not slacking off, you probably spend as much time in BM as I do, if not more. Sometimes I log in with my Dwilight character and see 100+ messages from the 'moot, all from three or four nobles. So I know I'm not the most BM-obsessed player out there. :o
I'd like to think that I make efficient use of my time in BM.
And yes, having great Marshals help tremendously when you're playing General.
Hmm, look like my adventurer random picked to start in wrong realm, wrong place at wrong time. Minas Ithil is about to raise a white flag using white sock as its material?
No wonder nobody want buy Unique Item from my adventurer, they are so poor to afford one? ;D
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 04, 2012, 01:19:51 AM
btw, my city's tax this week: 4673. Tell me I'm not powerful.
And yet, due to autopausing, Ravendon got more. :O
Don't worry Geronus, we'll make ya eat your hat. (At this rate, it might just be for the sake of you eating your hat and not actual IC reasons.)
Quote from: Ketchum on July 06, 2012, 04:36:57 AM
Hmm, look like my adventurer random picked to start in wrong realm, wrong place at wrong time. Minas Ithil is about to raise a white flag using white sock as its material?
No wonder nobody want buy Unique Item from my adventurer, they are so poor to afford one? ;D
Viking don't seem to have much need for such things unless perhaps they are shinny. Perhaps you would have better luck in the south.
Yes, we like purty things in the South.
It seems starvation is a huge feature now!
Quote from: Blue Star on July 07, 2012, 03:58:44 PM
Viking don't seem to have much need for such things unless perhaps they are shinny. Perhaps you would have better luck in the south.
Ithilians are no vikings.
Sure aren't. And we Vikings like unique items just fine. Ender typically overpays for them actually.
Really? hmm always assumed they were Viking at least in religion since all the Viking religion is centered around it. Does Minas Ithil then have a religion beside that of the Vikings ones?
Quote from: Blue Star on July 11, 2012, 03:54:01 PM
Really? hmm always assumed they were Viking at least in religion since all the Viking religion is centered around it. Does Minas Ithil then have a religion beside that of the Vikings ones?
A good amount of Warrior Saints followers. The Duke of York follows, I believe, and is quite the patron.
Quote from: Perth on July 12, 2012, 03:49:29 AM
A good amount of Warrior Saints followers. The Duke of York follows, I believe, and is quite the patron.
Warrior Saints has the strongest following within Minas Ithil. Way of the Hammer has a few followers within MI but the faith is frowned on for historical reasons. I'm not aware of any other faiths being followed in MI.
Some people in Minas Ithil would probably pay for unique items, but my character hasn't been offered any. If you see Relkin around you could offer it to him, he might pay some gold for it depending on what it is.
what happened to the founder of warrior saints?
Warrior Saints has gotten a lot more fun since our resident zealot priest showed up.
Way of the Hammer is shunned and is mostly illegal in Minas Ithil. Use a faith against a people and fail to finish them, don't be surpised when it becomes outlawed. Also, Raziel will hop on and typically over pay for a cool enough unique item.
Quote from: Stabbity on July 16, 2012, 10:18:31 PM
Way of the Hammer is shunned and is mostly illegal in Minas Ithil. Use a faith against a people and fail to finish them, don't be surpised when it becomes outlawed. Also, Raziel will hop on and typically over pay for a cool enough unique item.
Oh, I see. Winham has 1 Way of the Hammer temple. And my first impression is this temple of Thunder God, dedicated to a God called Thor? :P
Quote from: Ketchum on July 17, 2012, 03:04:01 AM
Oh, I see. Winham has 1 Way of the Hammer temple. And my first impression is this temple of Thunder God, dedicated to a God called Thor? :P
It's pretty lame. Not even an effort at creativity.
Quote from: Perth on July 17, 2012, 03:32:30 PM
It's pretty lame. Not even an effort at creativity.
Hey, we call ourselves Vikings. At least we're true to form :)
Don't yell at me though, Way of the Hammer predates me in BM. So do Atamara's Vikings.
Quote from: Geronus on July 17, 2012, 03:48:42 PM
Hey, we call ourselves Vikings. At least we're true to form :)
Don't yell at me though, Way of the Hammer predates me in BM. So do Atamara's Vikings.
Oh yeah, way predates me too. I'm sure it was long before the more recent pushes for creativity and to avoid real-world copies, etc.
Mmmm... lvl 2 fortifications. Gotta love them high walls.
FWIW - This is why I *always* carry one siege engine when marching to war.
Can I whine for a second? I believe I've earned it.
Barad Gardor wouldn't have been overran if:
- The double-tax bug did not give Minas Ithil and Hammarsett 2x gold to recruit huge armies while we were looting near their capitals.
- The starvation bug did not wipe out an entire Cagilan task force of two armies at Elost.
- The travel bug did not increase travel times in Hammarsett to absurd levels, preventing many nobles from retreating at all, which caused way too many nobles to be captured.
So before I hear any more gloating,
stop writing so many bugs, Devs.</whine>
Maybe the BattleMaster Dev team should start doing code reviews.
Well i know atleast minas ithil's army suffered from starvation and having been at half strength from a battle BEFORE even Barad Gardor.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 19, 2012, 06:23:53 AM
Can I whine for a second? I believe I've earned it.
Barad Gardor wouldn't have been overran if:
- The double-tax bug did not give Minas Ithil and Hammarsett 2x gold to recruit huge armies while we were looting near their capitals.
- The starvation bug did not wipe out an entire Cagilan task force of two armies at Elost.
- The travel bug did not increase travel times in Hammarsett to absurd levels, preventing many nobles from retreating at all, which caused way too many nobles to be captured.
So before I hear any more gloating, stop writing so many bugs, Devs.
</whine>
Maybe the BattleMaster Dev team should start doing code reviews.
Hammarsett had around 4-5K, MI had about 5-6K. What huge armies are you talking about?
And pretty much all of Hammarsett's/rogue regions are suffering from starvation. We had our fair share of casualties from that too.
What are y'all complaining about? Coria is the one sick with bad ally syndrome!
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 19, 2012, 06:38:02 AM
What are y'all complaining about? Coria is the one sick with bad ally syndrome!
Well you could change sides. We have pancakes.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 19, 2012, 06:38:02 AM
What are y'all complaining about? Coria is the one sick with bad ally syndrome!
MI and Hammarsett try to bash each others brains out every other day. BoM has 8K economic strength that they don't know how to use. Eston won't let us attack Coria through Anost, but will bring in Talerium as an enemy on the Eastern front, which forces Darka to march several days to get to the only front available to them.
You were saying?
Quote from: Uzamaki on July 19, 2012, 06:45:30 AM
MI and Hammarsett try to bash each others brains out every other day. BoM has 8K economic strength that they don't know how to use. Eston won't let us attack Coria through Anost, but will bring in Talerium as an enemy on the Eastern front, which forces Darka to march several days to get to the only front available to them.
You were saying?
This is his excuse for letting his city get owned so hard.
Quote from: Uzamaki on July 19, 2012, 06:37:35 AM
Hammarsett had around 4-5K, MI had about 5-6K. What huge armies are you talking about?
That's what you have
after you've beaten back our forces
and marched through the starving regions
and overran the level five city walls with 9k CS of militia behind them. Minas Ithil had 12k originally. Hammarsett had 7k originally. That's about 1.5x bigger than what you normally field, which makes sense, since you had 2x gold and diminishing returns kicks in when all of your nobles start fielding 50+ troops.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 19, 2012, 06:38:02 AM
What are y'all complaining about? Coria is the one sick with bad ally syndrome!
To be fair, Tara has been fielding 20k CS lately. That's not shabby. They have more nobles now and it shows.
Finally another epic huge battle ;D
QuoteHuge Battle Fought (5 hours, 46 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Cantril:
Barony of Makar, Eston vs. Cagilan Empire, Talerium
Estimated strengths: 2000 men vs. 1500 men
The Hand of the Citadel (Eston), sponsored by Kealan Emarama, Duke of Hawthorne, Margrave of Hawthorne, were led into battle by Marshal Randor Anduin Hortgarh.
The Army of Thorns (Eston), sponsored by Athena Leather, Royal Justiciar of Eston, Duchess of Barad Lacirith, Margravine of Barad Lacirith, Marshal of the "Royal Judicial Corp, were led into battle by Marshal Vasilios Komnenus.
The Est Sularus oth Mithas (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Milan Prestongreen, Duke of Cagil, Margrave of Cagil, Ambassador of Cagilan Empire, were led into battle by Marshal Charles Elegant.
The Eaglin Eagles (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Archymond Paxwax, Duke of Eaglin, Margrave of Eaglin, Marshal of the Lightning Griffins, were led into battle by Marshal Virgo Blue Star.
The Makarian Horde (Barony of Makar), sponsored by Ender Neill, Executor of Barony of Makar, Duke of Makar, Margrave of Makar, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Thorild Brynjulvsdottir Galle.
Jason Elegant, Prime Minister of Cagilan Empire is spotted wielding the Swift Scythe of Hidale.
Mighty Toff, Viscount of Woodglen is spotted wearing the Ucdauh's Jacket of the Foolish.
Vasilios Komnenus, Count of Loratil, Marshal of the Army of Thorns is spotted wielding the Ornate Staff.
Jason Elegant of Cagilan Empire, Prime Minister of Cagilan Empire was captured by Christofer II Kane's unit.
Ulrich Gray of Cagilan Empire, Earl of Hidale was captured by Amphictyon Archeanis's unit.
Defender Victory!
Coria had double gold, too. And a duke in residence. And plenty of warning that the attack was coming, since it was a two-turn move. We won the battle quite easily. A couple thousand less CS probably wouldn't have mattered.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 19, 2012, 10:51:04 AM
That's what you have after you've beaten back our forces and marched through the starving regions and overran the level five city walls with 9k CS of militia behind them. Minas Ithil had 12k originally. Hammarsett had 7k originally. That's about 1.5x bigger than what you normally field, which makes sense, since you had 2x gold and diminishing returns kicks in when all of your nobles start fielding 50+ troops.
To be fair, Tara has been fielding 20k CS lately. That's not shabby. They have more nobles now and it shows.
That's more than MI usually brings to the party, but Hammarsett's always been able to manage 8k or so if given a couple weeks without a huge battle. Which we have had. Where the heck is Tara, anyway? Shouldn't they be showing up to rain on our parade right about now?
Quote from: Geronus on July 19, 2012, 03:39:05 PM
That's more than MI usually brings to the party, but Hammarsett's always been able to manage 8k or so if given a couple weeks without a huge battle. Which we have had. Where the heck is Tara, anyway? Shouldn't they be showing up to rain on our parade right about now?
MI had been suffering from woundings and inactivity in their military hierarchy the past couple campaigns, so their armies have been smaller and less coordinated. They should be able to field 10K if you ask me, but I'll settle for a solid, active 7.5K if they have that to bring.
Quote from: Ketchum on July 19, 2012, 12:04:53 PM
Finally another epic huge battle ;D
great now we wait another month for the next one.....
peace!
Quote from: Indirik on July 19, 2012, 02:49:44 PM
Coria had double gold, too. And a duke in residence. And plenty of warning that the attack was coming, since it was a two-turn move. We won the battle quite easily. A couple thousand less CS probably wouldn't have mattered.
Well that just isn't true. We weren't aware of the attack before it happened. We had no scout reports of the impending attack due to the broad losses in the leadership chain caused by the massive captures and woundings.
Well, it's your own fault you weren't watching. The opportunity was there. You had a Hammarsett TO force in Menedor to watch, and at least 10k cs was showing in BG after the first half of the move.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 19, 2012, 11:49:23 PM
Well that just isn't true. We weren't aware of the attack before it happened. We had no scout reports of the impending attack due to the broad losses in the leadership chain caused by the massive captures and woundings.
Soooo... really what I'm hearing is that Coria has themselves to blame for dropping the ball and not paying attention to the army right next door.
Quote from: Indirik on July 19, 2012, 02:49:44 PM
We won the battle quite easily. A couple thousand less CS probably wouldn't have mattered.
If you really believe that, Darka is lucky that Kende is not the General anymore. 8)
Sound like good war. My adventurer can rise become Noble, I have slot for 1 extra Noble. Let war begin... 8)
I've always wanted a bunch of enemies. Ketchum and GoldPanda you're nobles are all sissies.
Are we enemies now?
Quote from: T Strike on July 21, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
I've always wanted a bunch of enemies. Ketchum and GoldPanda you're nobles are all sissies.
Are we enemies now?
Yes, but only because you do not use "your / you're" correctly.
Haha that's right. My grammar are perfect :P
Quote from: T Strike on July 21, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
I've always wanted a bunch of enemies. Ketchum and GoldPanda you're nobles are all sissies.
Are we enemies now?
Yes, please do not be caught with your pant down when I come visit you dead at night 8)
Quote from: Ketchum on July 23, 2012, 03:26:04 AM
Yes, please do not be caught with your pant down when I come visit you dead at night 8)
That's disturbing.
Quote from: T Strike on July 23, 2012, 08:44:20 AM
That's disturbing.
Don't worry, I make it quick. And deadly too. You know the art of shadow :P
Hmm, I still missing recommendation. Lot of Unique Items but no buyer :o
Ah, yes, peasants make the best infiltrators.
... What does that say about infiltrators? ::)
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 24, 2012, 09:42:36 AM
Ah, yes, peasants make the best infiltrators.
... What does that say about infiltrators? ::)
Owned again by an infil?
Quote from: Ketchum on July 24, 2012, 09:35:17 AM
Don't worry, I make it quick. And deadly too. You know the art of shadow :P
Hmm, I still missing recommendation. Lot of Unique Items but no buyer :o
Come to Coria, get a recommendation from a Consul. :) I've got some gold to throw at an item.
Misreading Ver. 2.0:
Quote from: T Strike on July 21, 2012, 08:30:24 PM
Ketchum and GoldPanda you're nobles are all sissies.
Are we enemies now?
Quote from: Ketchum on July 23, 2012, 03:26:04 AM
Yes, please do not be caught with your pant down when I come visit you dead at night 8)
Quote from: T Strike on July 23, 2012, 08:44:20 AM
That's disturbing.
Quote from: Ketchum on July 24, 2012, 09:35:17 AM
Don't worry, I make it quick. You know the art of shadow :P
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 24, 2012, 09:42:36 AM
Ah, yes, peasants make the best ::)
Quote from: Skiarxon on July 24, 2012, 11:38:07 AM
Owned again?
Quote from: Eirikr on July 24, 2012, 03:02:53 PM
Come to Coria, get from a Consul. :) I've got some.
:o :o :o
Quote from: Ketchum on July 24, 2012, 09:35:17 AM
Hmm, I still missing recommendation. Lot of Unique Items but no buyer :o
What are the names of the items?
Why don't you try to hook up in-game instead of making OOC arrangements?
Quote from: Sonya on July 24, 2012, 05:33:40 PM
Misreading Ver. 2.0:
:o :o :o
BAHAHAHA
Hey, Ravendon would totally talk to him in-game when he meets him... Just gotta get these Hammarsett and Minas Ithil things out of the way. For some reason, they don't want me to introduce myself.
On the same topic but on another topic at the same time i have one confession to make.
This is the most stupid,annoying and !@#$ty war i have ever witnessed in Atamara and i 've seen a lot of them in the past 8 years i m there.GOD I HATE IT! >.<
Quote from: Misericordia on July 29, 2012, 01:31:22 AM
On the same topic but on another topic at the same time i have one confession to make.
This is the most stupid,annoying and !@#$ty war i have ever witnessed in Atamara and i 've seen a lot of them in the past 8 years i m there.GOD I HATE IT! >.<
Blame CE, it seems to work for most everything else.
But it's not their fault that Talerium and Darka have a border agreement. Nor is it their fault that Eston and Coria have a border agreement.
Quote from: egamma on July 29, 2012, 06:26:58 PM
But it's not their fault that Talerium and Darka have a border agreement. Nor is it their fault that Eston and Coria have a border agreement.
So? Hasn't stopped us before...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 29, 2012, 01:47:47 AM
Blame CE, it seems to work for most everything else.
Exactly. If a few more realms would just "blame CE" boy would we see some things change!
Well i don't want to blame anyone. I just wanted to report my frustration :P
Quote from: egamma on July 29, 2012, 06:26:58 PM
But it's not their fault that Talerium and Darka have a border agreement. Nor is it their fault that Eston and Coria have a border agreement.
This!
Quote from: egamma on July 29, 2012, 06:26:58 PM
But it's not their fault that Talerium and Darka have a border agreement. Nor is it their fault that Eston and Coria have a border agreement.
Are you kidding me? That's totally their fault. It's all a part of their plan to infiltrate and divide the North!
Quote from: Perth on July 30, 2012, 07:19:39 PM
Are you kidding me? That's totally their fault. It's all a part of their plan to infiltrate and divide the North!
Yeah! CE's plan! The Northern realms general incompetence has nothing to do with it!
Quote from: Uzamaki on July 30, 2012, 07:45:06 PM
Yeah! CE's plan! The Northern realms general incompetence has nothing to do with it!
I'm pretty sure only Coria's General is competent out of all of the realms of Atamara. I mean who else would come up with a bold plan like leaving your own city to travel to Eston in the name of peace while an army sacks it from behind. I mean that takes true skill.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 31, 2012, 01:19:46 AM
I'm pretty sure only Coria's General is competent out of all of the realms of Atamara. I mean who else would come up with a bold plan like leaving your own city to travel to Eston in the name of peace while an army sacks it from behind. I mean that takes true skill.
Man, you just can't let that go, can ya?
Quote from: Perth on July 31, 2012, 03:20:01 AM
Man, you just can't let that go, can ya?
Hey, gotta give you props for the one you got me, since I got you in Diplo a few times.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 31, 2012, 03:22:42 AM
Hey, gotta give you props for the one you got me, since I got you in Diplo a few times.
Yeah, I just wish I could say I planned it that way. :-[
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 31, 2012, 01:19:46 AM
I'm pretty sure only Coria's General is competent out of all of the realms of Atamara. I mean who else would come up with a bold plan like leaving your own city to travel to Eston in the name of peace while an army sacks it from behind. I mean that takes true skill.
yeah he's awesome and all but he will never understand the tactical withdrawal from Barad Gador hahahahahaha
but anyway, i have no idea how he is as a general but he remains a diplomat in army uniforms :P
Quote from: Misericordia on July 31, 2012, 10:39:56 PM
yeah he's awesome and all but he will never understand the tactical withdrawal from Barad Gador hahahahahaha
but anyway, i have no idea how he is as a general but he remains a diplomat in army uniforms :P
Who needs diplomacy when it's win or go home? :P
Quote from: Misericordia on July 31, 2012, 10:39:56 PM
yeah he's awesome and all but he will never understand the tactical withdrawal from Barad Gador hahahahahaha
but anyway, i have no idea how he is as a general but he remains a diplomat in army uniforms :P
Merlin: "Speak softly and carry a big stick!"
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 01, 2012, 03:18:28 AM
Merlin: "Speak softly and carry a big stick!"
*looks at Silverfire suspiciously* ...pretty sure that was someone else...
I fully support TR being thought of as merlin! they had SO much in common :D
Quote from: Lanyon on August 01, 2012, 05:37:49 AM
I fully support TR being thought of as merlin! they had SO much in common :D
Hm... maybe. I imagine Teddy was better looking, though.
Quote from: Uzamaki on July 31, 2012, 11:10:19 PM
Who needs diplomacy when it's win or go home? :P
Unless you're Darka, in which case it's just "go home". Oh ho ho ho ho ho. ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 01, 2012, 11:41:15 AM
Unless you're Darka, in which case it's just "go home". Oh ho ho ho ho ho. ;D
Darka is (unfortunately) one of the most organized realms in the Northern Alliance.
The thing is Darka has always had a organized and well damn good efficient army. It's unfortunate the rest of the Northern alliance can't pull it together....
Quote from: Blue Star on August 01, 2012, 03:53:42 PM
The thing is Darka has always had a organized and well damn good efficient army. It's unfortunate that Eston still has their border treaty with Coria.
How I read it.
Interpretation is ones own.
However, I'm not in the NA.
I have wondered though how Darka has maintained positive relations with Tal and Eston. Both of them having been in the past attacked by Darka and Eston losing land. Hmm first thought KK must be poisoning them with the 7UP ^_^
Quote from: Blue Star on August 01, 2012, 04:05:22 PM
Interpretation is ones own.
However, I'm not in the NA.
I have wondered though how Darka has maintained positive relations with Tal and Eston. Both of them having been in the past attacked by Darka and Eston losing land. Hmm first thought KK must be poisoning them with the 7UP ^_^
I don't know how we do it with Tal, especially when it seems every other week an idiot thinks it's okay to move back home through Cantril.
As for Eston, my guess would be mutual need.
Heh, well it has not been easy, i guess Eston needs us as much as we need them. Infact for somereason it is harder to work with Eston than it is with Talerium... and we are defending Eston against Talerium :P
I dont know what would be situation incase Talerium and Eston would get along well... which is my dream :D Will they then wink eye to each other and spank the crap out from Darka? Or would there become real threat to CE coalition? But i guess CE & Tal history is so long and good working alliance that they simply wont sacrifice it because of Darka.
But... gotta say i afraid time after KK... Some hothead on the throne could quickly cause some serious mess up on our side of island... but same goes with Eston and Talerium, our good relations are pretty much based old friendships between rulers & other council members...
Well then here's to hoping for change! I'd like nothing better than to see some of those relationships that are seemingly etched in stone get completely blown up whether it hurts my character's interests or not. We need new blood on the thrones of Atamara!
Quote from: jaune on August 01, 2012, 07:07:28 PMSome hothead on the throne could quickly cause some serious mess up on our side of island...
ah that would be very cool and entertaining 8)
Quote from: Geronus on August 01, 2012, 07:27:02 PM
Well then here's to hoping for change! I'd like nothing better than to see some of those relationships that are seemingly etched in stone get completely blown up whether it hurts my character's interests or not. We need new blood on the thrones of Atamara!
In the north that is true perhaps. Yet, you see they are all monarchy or tyranny governed. If you take the King/tyrant down it makes no difference if they re-elect few days later. So very little point. Unless you send say 4-5 infiltrators to take them down very little is to change.
Once comfortable why would one aspire for more, if it required a great deal of effort?
Quote from: Geronus on August 01, 2012, 07:27:02 PM
Well then here's to hoping for change! I'd like nothing better than to see some of those relationships that are seemingly etched in stone get completely blown up whether it hurts my character's interests or not. We need new blood on the thrones of Atamara!
People say they want change on the island and in the power structures, yet gripe and complain that Eston is friends with Coria. What the hell is that but an obvious attempt to change how things work on the island?
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 01, 2012, 03:55:37 PM
How I read it.
Again, don't complain about Eston when Darka 1) refuses to change their stance on Talerium and 2) has been the single biggest barrier to big changes happening in both the war and the island's power structure. No offense, but KK's whole political stance on everything is "let's maintain the status quo." Which is understandable, it's pretty cushy for Darka. But I don't see why Darkans like to criticize Eston for it.
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:28:21 AM
Again, don't complain about Eston when Darka 1) refuses to change their stance on Talerium and 2) has been the single biggest barrier to big changes happening in both the war and the island's power structure. No offense, but KK's whole political stance on everything is "let's maintain the status quo." Which is understandable, it's pretty cushy for Darka. But I don't see why Darkans like to criticize Eston for it.
I don't particularly like Darka's set up with Talerium, but the way I see it, if Darka were to break the border treaty with Talerium, Darka would be forced to stay on the Western front, which would allow the Eastern front to get basically slaughtered considering that at least half of the strength that the Eastern Front puts out every campaign is Darkan. Also, Darka is still a mercenary realm. If they started attacking neighbors and breaking border treaties, they would never fight another mercenary war as long as they live, as no neighboring realm would trust them enough to use their lands to accomplish their mercenary goals.
Whereas if Eston attacks Coria, they don't really lose anything, but the Northern Alliance could gain something. Coria is on the breaking point on the Eastern front, and that is with Darka traveling close to a week there and back every campaign. If Eston and Darka had options to go either West or East in their attacks against Coria, Coria would be crushed. Without Coria, CE and Tara have no puppet to expand and then, essentially, have lost the war unless they make some
extremely drastic changes.
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 02, 2012, 04:39:39 AM
I don't particularly like Darka's set up with Talerium, but the way I see it, if Darka were to break the border treaty with Talerium, Darka would be forced to stay on the Western front, which would allow the Eastern front to get basically slaughtered considering that at least half of the strength that the Eastern Front puts out every campaign is Darkan. Also, Darka is still a mercenary realm. If they started attacking neighbors and breaking border treaties, they would never fight another mercenary war as long as they live, as no neighboring realm would trust them enough to use their lands to accomplish their mercenary goals.
Mercenary? Since when are they still mercenary? They certainly aren't fighting this war as a mercenary realm, as far as I am aware. If so... who is paying them?
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 02, 2012, 04:39:39 AM
Whereas if Eston attacks Coria, they don't really lose anything,
................
Right, nothing to lose.
I'm sure the 30,000+ CS of Talerium and Cagilan forces sitting in Cantril will just chill while we're like "Oh hey, guys! I know we've doing this whole standoff thing, but we're going to go sack Barad Falas real quick just wait here till we get back, brb!"
Or, you know, they could rage across the Eston heartland burning and pillaging unopposed as they did at the beginning of the war. But whatever, nothing to lose.
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:47:14 AMOr, you know, they could rage across the Eston heartland burning and pillaging unopposed as they did at the beginning of the war. But whatever, nothing to lose.
Well, yeah, but... it's the Eston heartland, so no big deal, right? ;)
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:28:21 AMDarka 1) refuses to change their stance on Talerium and
Back when the war as at it's peak, and Carelia was slugging it away with CE, toe-to-toe, my character advocated a massed strike at Cagil. Darka/Eston together could have plowed right through Talerium and northern CE with no resistance, and burned Cagil to the ground. time it with an offensive by Carelia and we could have had a major impact on the entire course of the war. Grumpy old KK wouldn't let me. :'(
Quote2) has been the single biggest barrier to big changes happening in both the war and the island's power structure. No offense, but KK's whole political stance on everything is "let's maintain the status quo."
Oh, blah... That's bogus. Darka was one of the realms to instigate the war on CE & Co. IIRC, Darka was pretty much the first to declare the war, barring Carelia, and march to attack CE, in an attempt specifically intended to change the island's entire power structure. KK's stance is merely that Darka will not break our border treaty with Talerium. Beyond that, there is no support for any kind of status quo.
Quote from: Indirik on August 02, 2012, 05:01:19 AM
Back when the war as at it's peak, and Carelia was slugging it away with CE, toe-to-toe, my character advocated a massed strike at Cagil. Darka/Eston together could have plowed right through Talerium and northern CE with no resistance, and burned Cagil to the ground. time it with an offensive by Carelia and we could have had a major impact on the entire course of the war. Grumpy old KK wouldn't let me. :'(
I could have written that exact same paragraph, lol.
People are so risk aversive. As someone with little invested in the situation and no knowledge of the circumstances, I only firmly reprimand them for their incomprehensible cowardice. 8)
There sure was moments when KK was reallly close to march through Cantril, to simply test if Talerium would let it go.
KK has time to time tried to make Tal & Eston to sign peace, it would release Eston forces to fight on other front... but then again, Coria is blocking that way from Eston.
KK also consired retiring and let someone else do that risky move, that was when there was pretty high pressure to attack Talerium from outside and inside Darka... it was close, really close that we didnt open front line there.
Darka cant be mercenary atm. CE threatened to attack us if we defend Eston... but since Eston is good jolly friend of us, we did it for free and declared war to CE. And Perth, believe me i could make a good deal at any moment, which would be good for Darka and baaad for Eston(atleast short term) :) We just need to think a bit future as well.
Anyway, even this war is very frustrating and havent gone well for the "coalition"(not much of a coalition after south betrayed us) there is, like Perth pointed out been some changes on diplomacy.
I really don't understand why it is so difficult for some people to understand how Darka acts after so many years in Atamara.
Darka is not fighting this war as a mercenary realm yes and in fact i think it is the second time i witness that in the realm, last time they fought for personal vendetta it was against Red Span.
As Indirik correctly said Darka was one of the realms to start this whole war against CE because the threat of that realm growing constantly and pretty much having the alliances it has was scary for the north and the whole continent as well.
But you cannot really expect that Darka would turn her back to Talerium.I mean if we logically think of it ,yes Darka would love to maintain the her current size throughout this war.Since so far she was used to be neutral territory because she was mostly paid to fight by one side she wants the same even now.
Let's not forget Eston, Talerium and Darka incident before this war that started off a war between Eston and Darka.It is is difficult to bring down your defences when such things take place behind your back.
Yes we cannot demand from Eston things against Coria when we have the same agreement with Talerium but we are talking about realms with totally different history and alliances and friendships on a completely different level.Darka is allied to Talerium for ages and mostly when their leaders remain the same it is rather difficult to break that bond.
Also let's be honest,yes Darka used to be a super organized realm ,always with lots of gold in order to make the difference on the battlefield but that is not the case in this war, the restrictions for the Northern Alliance are so many that you cannot have fun without ending up stabbing someone at the back.And i expect to see who will take the knife to be honest hoping that at least that will bring up some sparkle to this war.
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:28:21 AM
People say they want change on the island and in the power structures, yet gripe and complain that Eston is friends with Coria. What the hell is that but an obvious attempt to change how things work on the island?
Right, because it's soooo game changing. 8)
If I'm not mistaken, we're just about to celebrate the 2 year anniversary of this war.
@ Misericordia
you can't exactly say for others to take a risk when your not willing to take one yourself... Eston and Coria have both taken a risk for change by going for peace instead of fighting.
Hmm so Darka was scared of the central alliances power... interesting.
Quote from: Blue Star on August 02, 2012, 03:37:29 PM
@ Misericordia
you can't exactly say for others to take a risk when your not willing to take one yourself... Eston and Coria have both taken a risk for change by going for peace instead of fighting.
Hmm so Darka was scared of the central alliances power... interesting.
Darka may not be fighting as a mercenary realm, but after this war, I have always assumed we would. Which would mean we would need neighboring allies and border treaties to do that.
And, I wouldn't say scared, but who wouldn't be concerned when the two biggest realms(Tara and CE) are in an alliance and making babies in former Falasan territory?
Quote from: Blue Star on August 02, 2012, 03:37:29 PM
you can't exactly say for others to take a risk when your not willing to take one yourself... Eston and Coria have both taken a risk for change by going for peace instead of fighting.
Making peace is the antithesis of risk; if anything, it makes both realms safer (which is likely why they did it), so you'll forgive me if I don't give either realm much credit for trying to shake things up. Taking a risk for change would be for either of those realms to switch sides in the war, an idea which I heartily encourage by the way. Even if it screws the North.
Quote from: Geronus on August 02, 2012, 02:26:06 PM
Right, because it's soooo game changing. 8)
Uh, yeah. It is. Why do you think a lot of people are specifically upset about it?
Because it changes the entire dynamics of the current war.Quote from: Geronus on August 02, 2012, 03:49:03 PM
Making peace is the antithesis of risk;
That depends on the situation. For instance, both realms risked seriously upsetting their allies and their respective power blocs by doing so. Especially Eston. When Eston made peace with Coria it was a big deal, it angered her allies, and is still (obviously) a sore spot today for many.
Quote from: Geronus on August 02, 2012, 03:49:03 PM
Taking a risk for change would be for either of those realms to switch sides in the war, an idea which I heartily encourage by the way.
I just got an idea... what if BOTH switch sides? Eston joins CE & Co while Coria joins the Northern Alliance. That could be interesting...
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:04:10 PM
Uh, yeah. It is. Why do you think a lot of people are specifically upset about it? Because it changes the entire dynamics of the current war.
Yeah. You stalemated the war we were winning up until that point. Congratulations? Your "risky move" ended up doing the opposite of shake things up; it settled what had been an exciting war of motion through Coria into an incredibly dull medieval equivalent of trench warfare. You've had your own little Verdun going on over on the western front ever since. You changed the dynamics of the war alright.
Yaaaaaaaay for you... Me, I'll hold my applause for the unlikely event that you are ever vindicated by having your agreement with Coria end up helping us win. I still have a hat I haven't eaten yet. Seeing as Silverfire failed to prove me wrong, maybe you can take a shot at it? 8)
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:04:10 PM
That depends on the situation. For instance, both realms risked seriously upsetting their allies and their respective power blocs by doing so. Especially Eston. When Eston made peace with Coria it was a big deal, it angered her allies, and is still (obviously) a sore spot today for many.
And what were we going to do about it? Politely ask the other side to hold off while we took Eston out back behind the woodshed? Come on. You had to know that the risks were minimal. In the current situation no one can afford to turn allies into enemies. Long term it might lead to some problems for Eston, but I rather doubt it, and if Coria is in any kind of trouble with their allies this is the first I've heard of it. The cold hard fact is that the north needs Eston way too badly to ever consider turning on you while CE is out to get us, something you're no doubt keenly aware of.
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:04:10 PM
I just got an idea... what if BOTH switch sides? Eston joins CE & Co while Coria joins the Northern Alliance. That could be interesting...
That would be pure highway robbery for the North. Eston is way cooler than Coria. I maintain you should turn on Darka. Serve em' right for stabbing you in the back all those years ago. Not to mention pay them back for refusing to fight Talerium. ;)
Something sure needs to change. Peace might actually be more interesting than this war is.
Quote from: Geronus on August 02, 2012, 05:48:24 PMAnd what were we going to do about it? Politely ask the other side to hold off while we took Eston out back behind the woodshed? Come on. You had to know that the risks were minimal. In the current situation no one can afford to turn allies into enemies. Long term it might lead to some problems for Eston, but I rather doubt it, and if Coria is in any kind of trouble with their allies this is the first I've heard of it. The cold hard fact is that the north needs Eston way too badly to ever consider turning on you while CE is out to get us, something you're no doubt keenly aware of.
I have to agree with this. The Eston/Coria treaty was no risk for either party. It's not like CE & Co. was going to bitch Coria out for tying the northerners in knots trying to jump through the hoops we have in order to simply fight the other side. And let's be realistic, there's no way that was going to turn into a Darka/Eston war as long as Darka could still march through Eston. So... yeah... Not very risky.
Quote from: Perth on August 02, 2012, 04:04:10 PM
I just got an idea... what if BOTH switch sides? Eston joins CE & Co while Coria joins the Northern Alliance. That could be interesting...
Ok, I have to support this simply due to the chaos it will create, not to mention the ass-whoopins.
SA infighting
BoM - Having food issues, only shows up every two weeks for a battle here or there
MI & Hammersett - Fighting for their lives in a sense
Eston - loses Duchy and protects Darka from CE & Co, is at a stale mate, water is stronger than blood?
Tara and Coria - fight off invaders and raid Hammersett and MI.
CE - Repelled the SA, Thriving once again, Stalemate, but able to send aid.
Darka - gained a duchy by taking it from ally, fought away from it's lands, and for the most part had no worries. Ha and they were main instigators of this war. Well at least someone doing it right props to Darka. Gold Star
Am I that far off?
You can thank Tara for making sure that Suville stays out of this war.
They've done nothing but provoke Suville and support Carelian interests since peace was declare with CE. Very odd stance to take. Maybe their tune will change if their rurals get pulverized again.
Darka vs. Eston war was a long time ago, and has pretty much nothing to do with this current war.
Infact, i dont find this war after all so boring, i'm used to fight long wars, stamina is my strenght, only thing which worries me is that my allies give up :P
We will do fine. Coria will fall, mayby not tomorrow and mayby not even this week... but some day. Then it will be Tara & CE. 8)
Quote from: jaune on August 02, 2012, 10:49:29 PM
Darka vs. Eston war was a long time ago, and has pretty much nothing to do with this current war.
Infact, i dont find this war after all so boring, i'm used to fight long wars, stamina is my strenght, only thing which worries me is that my allies give up :P
We will do fine. Coria will fall, mayby not tomorrow and mayby not even this week... but some day. Then it will be Tara & CE. 8)
Love your optimism, even if I don't share it.
Quote from: jaune on August 02, 2012, 10:49:29 PM
Darka vs. Eston war was a long time ago, and has pretty much nothing to do with this current war.
Infact, i dont find this war after all so boring, i'm used to fight long wars, stamina is my strenght, only thing which worries me is that my allies give up :P
We will do fine. Coria will fall, mayby not tomorrow and mayby not even this week... but some day. Then it will be Tara & CE. 8)
The day a northern alliance army takes Barad Falas from Coria is the day that Merlin is not the Margrave of that city. It will not happen before then, I assure you.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 03, 2012, 12:22:55 AM
The day a northern alliance army takes Barad Falas from Coria is the day that Merlin is not the Margrave of that city. It will not happen before then, I assure you.
I know what you were trying to say, but on first reading this statement is self-evident ;)
With fall of the Coria, i mainly mean that they fall on our hands by force or they join Good side against the Evil Empire :P
Coria is a bit odd bird, somehow i like them... but then again, they are on the wrong side and i dont like how they talk... it is hard to follow, they say things what they dont mean(or i understand them wrong?).
Cagilan Empire is hard to hate, they are good and they deserve their power, but since they use their power "baad way" they need to be fought.
Tara used to be good bunch, but their amnesia about the past is annoying and hypocrisy along with denial of their history... and ofcourse being part of the Evil Empire... so they need to be spanked as well.
But maybby Darka can just blame itself, it should have took contracts against them earlier, maybby they should have let Tara die back the old days. It was good business then, but much have changed since then.
But like said, even thought this war seems to be never ending story and our "coalition" have suffered some major setbacks(South gave up and let Carelia fall and Estons peace with Coria) i dont see we have lost this war yet, vice versa.
NA has recently improved its co-operation and schedules are matching better, Darkas gold stock is at good shape... now we just need to get Coria on its knees, Eston and Talerium to sign peace... and after few years i think we have had some progress. So, mayby this war will be over in 3-5 years from now :)
Darka's war with Eston happened for a very valid reason. Yeah they did lost a duchy but they gained land with the aid of Darka in return.
Just drop this already. I do agree to the rest.Yes Darka did support this war ,yes Darka has no direct damage from it but Darka is not also DOING direct damage.See this is the difference...if Darka demanded from Talerium to move through Cantril when CE was still fighting Carelia it would lots of fun.It would mean that Darka repaired and after refit would attack directly Cagilan on the other side of her Realm while she was fighting Carelia and i do not see why Eston wouldn't join that.
It is a mistake for the fun of the situation that Darka didn't break her agreement with Talerium but it is also an important ally to her.
One way or another my honest opinion is that Darka shouldn't have forced herself in this war but wait for a contract opportunity. CE 's growth and power wasn't something Darka feared but something that would bring Darka out of business sooner or later and that time Darka used to get contracts only by CE and Tara which was a bit boring...the fun of being a mercenary is changing sides all the time not fighting constantly for one of them.
This war would never have happened in the first place if Darka wasn't on board, so you can forget that pipe dream. As for Eston v. Darka, relax. I was being facetious. Mostly. 8) Did I mention that my current AT character started out in Norland about a month before that went down, tops?
No, we haven't lost the war yet, but I also think we're on the back foot, playing defense. Hammarsett and MI are almost completely on the defensive, as is Eston. Darka is the only realm that can create offense right now, and I'm not convinced it's enough since the enemy simply reverses any progress made after Darka leaves the front to refit. Sure, the other side hasn't won any decisive victories yet, but at this rate it's only a matter of time in my opinion. We're simply outmatched. If you think we're even close to breaking Coria, I think you're dreaming. Hammarsett is much, much closer to breaking than Coria is.
Quote from: Darksun on August 02, 2012, 10:42:26 PM
You can thank Tara for making sure that Suville stays out of this war.
They've done nothing but provoke Suville and support Carelian interests since peace was declare with CE. Very odd stance to take. Maybe their tune will change if their rurals get pulverized again.
Hey now, give Carelia and Caergoth (and Suville, the initiater of this distraction conflict) a little credi too.
Maybe the whole supporting rebellions within Suville's neighbours, attacking them when the opportunity presents itself, and as an ally delivering a fourth or a fifth of your force to aid (as it looks to outside, not sure how it really is) makes them hesitant of having you press closer to their border. :P Could be something weirder of course too.
I think the position of the northern realms looks bleak given that however the southern conflict ends, Carelia and Caergoth are likely to aid Tara, and Suville is likely to aid Coria. But who knows, nobody seems to like anyone around the great lake
anymore. :D
Moar militia! ;)
Quote from: Indirik on August 05, 2012, 07:46:45 PM
Moar militia! ;)
I'm going to pretend I have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 05, 2012, 09:10:35 PM
I'm going to pretend I have no idea what you're talking about.
Hah.
On another topic, I haven't heard of Caergoth fighting any battles in a long time. Seems odd for the way of the hammer followers to not be at war with anyone.
It got really quiet ::)
Which is exactly why that stupid battle happened. No matter how many times I tell people to scout first, then loot, no one seems to pay attention. It was over four hours into the turn before someone noticed that Tara was in Corniel, and they were attacking. And no one from MI ever bothered to say anything at all the entire turn.
Lord Dubious of Darka: "Hey you guys, can someone scout? I lost the last of my scouts last turn."
Knight Greedy of Darka (to self): "Lolz, time to increase my 10k hoard by a few more!"
Knight Aloof of Darka: "Opps, read that as 'I'll scout np, you loot'"
Quote from: Indirik on July 20, 2012, 12:19:23 AM
Well, it's your own fault you weren't watching. The opportunity was there. You had a Hammarsett TO force in Menedor to watch, and at least 10k cs was showing in BG after the first half of the move.
Quote from: Indirik on August 07, 2012, 12:23:39 AM
Which is exactly why that stupid battle happened. No matter how many times I tell people to scout first, then loot, no one seems to pay attention. It was over four hours into the turn before someone noticed that Tara was in Corniel, and they were attacking. And no one from MI ever bothered to say anything at all the entire turn.
Darka...meet Darka.
You could say they were in the dark-eh.
So now it's the blame game?
I was sleeping, therefore it is someone else's fault. ;)
Sometimes it is worthwhile to make the best of a situation.
Rather than ranting, some organisation may have helped the cause somewhat.
Wow, you guys are so serious in AT... -_-
How very dare you!!
And on which planet could I EVER be described as a peasant!!
Quote from: Lady De La Coeur on August 07, 2012, 02:44:38 AM
How very dare you!!
And on which planet could I EVER be described as a peasant!!
Planet of Peasants
How about we all just go home and chalk this up to a misunderstanding?
What, the forum discussion or the war?
Man, you Darkans got off lightly. The poor cavalry couldn't get into melee for almost the entire battle. A 600-man cavalry charge would have ended that battle a few turns earlier.
Yawn
Quote from: Velax on August 07, 2012, 07:21:37 AM
Man, you Darkans got off lightly. The poor cavalry couldn't get into melee for almost the entire battle. A 600-man cavalry charge would have ended that battle a few turns earlier.
Yep cavalry = cannon fodder (arrow fodder)
Impressive battles :D
QuoteHuge Battle Fought (12 hours, 12 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Ambermel:
Caergoth, Carelia vs. Suville
Estimated strengths: 1520 men vs. 1470 men
The Hammers of Carelia (Carelia), sponsored by Karandras Ulthran, Judge of Carelia, Duchess of Sullenport, Margravine of Sullenport, were led into battle by Marshal Richard Leonecoeur Silver.
The Royal Army of Caergoth (Caergoth), sponsored by Sir Macrinus Sciurus, Grand Field Marshal of Caergoth, Duke of Ash'rily, Margrave of Ash'rily, were led into battle by Marshal Aidan Modane.
The Army of Narville (Suville), sponsored by Caibre Eldrake, King of Suville, were led into battle by Marshal Proximus Centauri.
The Army of Riverholm (Suville), sponsored by Kindel Baranof, Duke of Riverholm, Margrave of Riverholm, Ambassador of Suville, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Cassidy Graves.
John derik (Knight of Bolgar) is spotted wearing the Elemental Gauntlets of the Maiden.
Eoin Gabhann, Treasurer of Carelia is spotted wearing the Circlet of Warding.
Ranulf Flambard, Count of Glassinn is spotted wearing the Mysterious Helm of the Kings.
Jostein Schancke of Caergoth (Knight of Yacon, Caergoth) was captured by Ronan O'Faolain's unit.
Rojer Lyon of Carelia (Lord of Carelia) was captured by Joscelin de Courtenay's unit.
Defender Victory!
=====
QuoteHuge Battle Fought (17 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Ambermel:
Caergoth, Carelia vs. Suville
Estimated strengths: 1140 men vs. 840 men
The Hammers of Carelia (Carelia), sponsored by Karandras Ulthran, Judge of Carelia, Duchess of Sullenport, Margravine of Sullenport, were led into battle by Marshal Richard Leonecoeur Silver.
The Royal Army of Caergoth (Caergoth), sponsored by Sir Macrinus Sciurus, Grand Field Marshal of Caergoth, Duke of Ash'rily, Margrave of Ash'rily, were led into battle by Marshal Aidan Modane.
The Army of Riverholm (Suville), sponsored by Kindel Baranof, Duke of Riverholm, Margrave of Riverholm, Ambassador of Suville, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Cassidy Graves.
The Army of Narville (Suville), sponsored by Caibre Eldrake, King of Suville, were led into battle by Marshal Proximus Centauri.
Trager Maximoff, Margrave of Dampinn is spotted wearing the Blessed Vest from the North.
John derik (Knight of Bolgar) is spotted wearing the Elemental Gauntlets of the Maiden.
Ulf Kelperhurst of Carelia (Lord of Carelia) was captured by Dakmar Darksun's unit.
Hallvar Schancke of Carelia, Count of Bolgar was captured by Jayden Lacoste Archbane's unit.
Galdar Borgia of Suville (Knight of Dampinn, Suville) was captured by Talius Sargeras Valorian's unit.
Vorg Vorgon of Carelia (Lord of Carelia) was seriously wounded by Dakmar Darksun's unit.
Defender Victory!
Interesting battles. Partly because it was likely the "last hurrah" of Carelia, but also because it was two very different armies clashing against each others, archers vs infantry.
Live and learn, eh? :P
There were Caergoth troops? Go figure. As for me, I'm rather enjoying relentlessly stating that Suville is in the right and that the whole war with Carelia is all their fault anyway. Maybe eventually I'll even get someone to believe me (though not likely a Carelian :P).
Quote from: OFaolain on August 10, 2012, 10:46:43 AM
There were Caergoth troops? Go figure. As for me, I'm rather enjoying relentlessly stating that Suville is in the right and that the whole war with Carelia is all their fault anyway. Maybe eventually I'll even get someone to believe me (though not likely a Carelian :P).
I believe you! We're doing the same thing with Hammarsett.
(Will you send troops to help us with that when you're done with this now?)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 10, 2012, 12:57:24 PM
I believe you! We're doing the same thing with Hammarsett.
(Will you send troops to help us with that when you're done with this now?)
The difference is that you don't really have to exaggerate much.
Hammarsett got 2 regions TO by Tara recently. MI try to help but its advance scout I believe, got routed in defeat.
BoM elect new Dictator as its Ruler. Any impact?
QuoteTakeover (2 days, 17 hours ago)
message to Everyone on Atamara
Tara has taken control of Lothruin. The region used to belong to Hammarsett.
QuoteTakeover (4 hours, 50 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Atamara
Tara has taken control of Lyton. The region used to belong to Hammarsett.
QuoteNew Ruler Elected (4 hours, 50 minutes ago)
message to Everyone on Atamara
The realm of Barony of Makar has elected Sordnaz Dagger as its new Dictator.
Yeah, Sordnaz isn't new at all. He probably lost his position by getting wounded for a really long time or something of that nature. He is, after all, incredibly old. As for Tara TOing our regions, it's definitely a new wrinkle... Not sure why it's them instead of Coria this time. Could just be that they're the ones in the field at the moment.
Quote from: Geronus on August 13, 2012, 01:47:15 PM
Yeah, Sordnaz isn't new at all. He probably lost his position by getting wounded for a really long time or something of that nature. He is, after all, incredibly old. As for Tara TOing our regions, it's definitely a new wrinkle... Not sure why it's them instead of Coria this time. Could just be that they're the ones in the field at the moment.
No, we just played with dices and we won. Next time Lady Fortuna might choose another realm.
Wrong Thread, Derp. Ignore next post too.
I think? Man, I'm so confused!
QuoteLegend has it that St Catherine of Alexandria was sentenced to be executed on one of these devices, which thereafter became known as the Catherine wheel, also used as an iconographic attribute. The wheel miraculously broke when she touched it; she was then beheaded.
"
Its a miracle! God has willed that she must live!"
LOLNOPE.
Sasuke just proposed a peace treaty to the Order of the Raven. Probably won't work, but it's worth a shot! ;D
Good luck... Have I ever mentioned how hard it is to light a fire on Atamara? It's always raining diplomacy and alliances.
Oh, and ruler inactivity/silence. ;D
That's why we need to spark a massive, island-wide revolution and throw out all those old fogies. Viva la revolucion!
I don't play on Ata anymore but I second that. Continent-wide revolution! Viva!
Quote from: Geronus on August 16, 2012, 03:45:41 PM
That's why we need to spark a massive, island-wide revolution and throw out all those old fogies. Viva la revolucion!
You
are one of the old fogies. >:(
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 17, 2012, 07:56:40 AM
You are one of the old fogies. >:(
Eh? I didn't even start playing until 2008. And at the time I left Atamara shortly after starting there, because I thought it sucked. I didn't try again and create Laszlo until 2009. That makes me practically a neophyte compared to half the people running Atamara these days.
The average starting year of the current rulers of Atamara is 2005. I rest my case.
Quote from: Geronus on August 17, 2012, 01:47:54 PM
Eh? I didn't even start playing until 2008. And at the time I left Atamara shortly after starting there, because I thought it sucked. I didn't try again and create Laszlo until 2009. That makes me practically a neophyte compared to half the people running Atamara these days.
The average starting year of the current rulers of Atamara is 2005. I rest my case.
so you are a not so old fogy. :P
So... old...
I joined the game in 2008, and have only been ruler since 2010 I think.
Nevertheless, ruling for multiple years still probably makes us fogies I think. Just not on par with the likes of Sordnaz or Aldarion. Now those guys are old.
Quote from: Ross on August 17, 2012, 03:12:12 PM
so you are a not so old fogy. :P
Exactly! :D
Also, I didn't rule on AT for very long. I was (reluctantly) the King of Hammarsett for about six months. I didn't enjoy it very much. It's hard to quantify, but there was a pervasive sense that the island has this enormously powerful momentum to it. It's been hurtling along with the same basic structure and relationships for so many years that no matter how many bright ideas you have or how dramatically you try to shake things up (see: the current war), nothing really changes at a fundamental level. That's why I vote that we explode the whole thing and start over. 8)
Wish I can join and make this war interesting ::)
Unfortunately my adventurer Oak accidentally insult a Noble and not going to rise up become Noble anytime soon. Add to this, he is critically wounded and may die anytime today :(
Quote from: Geronus on August 17, 2012, 04:08:44 PM
Exactly! :D
Also, I didn't rule on AT for very long. I was (reluctantly) the King of Hammarsett for about six months. I didn't enjoy it very much. It's hard to quantify, but there was a pervasive sense that the island has this enormously powerful momentum to it. It's been hurtling along with the same basic structure and relationships for so many years that no matter how many bright ideas you have or how dramatically you try to shake things up (see: the current war), nothing really changes at a fundamental level. That's why I vote that we explode the whole thing and start over. 8)
I'll give you a hint of what you did wrong. You tried to change things up while still retaining power. It is a lot easier to change things up if you don't try to hold on to any power. Plus brute force is not going to work. Change on atamara is slow but the only way to actually successfully change it is to work slowly. Hammarsett's method was fast and direct. Mine isn't. Mainly because hammarsett is still kicking. If ppl want change they'll let hammarsett die. Coincidentally that makes me more powerful but you can ignore that part. :)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 17, 2012, 06:02:05 PM
I'll give you a hint of what you did wrong. You tried to change things up while still retaining power. It is a lot easier to change things up if you don't try to hold on to any power. Plus brute force is not going to work. Change on atamara is slow but the only way to actually successfully change it is to work slowly. Hammarsett's method was fast and direct. Mine isn't. Mainly because hammarsett is still kicking. If ppl want change they'll let hammarsett die. Coincidentally that makes me more powerful but you can ignore that part. :)
Well, I don't know about wanting to hold onto power... It's not like I wanted the throne in the first place. But certainly you can still effect change even when you're not a Ruler, I won't deny that.
As for Hammarsett, change is coming soon probably. We're discussing what we want to do now, in fact.
" Add to this, he is critically wounded and may die anytime today"
Critically wounded people will not die from their wounds. No matter what people tell you, or how you interpret things, one fact remains in thee current system: if you don't die *instantly*, you will *not* die from it.
Yes, the only way ever to die not instantly is when Mortality was turned on for BT's 4th invasion. Mortality is no longer on for any continent.
Quote from: Indirik on August 17, 2012, 06:24:06 PM
" Add to this, he is critically wounded and may die anytime today"
Critically wounded people will not die from their wounds. No matter what people tell you, or how you interpret things, one fact remains in thee current system: if you don't die *instantly*, you will *not* die from it.
I'm quite new to this death topics, it's probably been talk often, but natural death has never been discussed ?
If natural death existed it would be more talked about. IIRC chars simply get fewer hours and heal slower as they age.
Quote from: Foundation on August 17, 2012, 09:36:26 PM
If natural death existed it would be more talked about. IIRC chars simply get fewer hours and heal slower as they age.
I would be in favor of some form of natural death. Perhaps some kind of check would run every two weeks or so with certain percentage chance of dying a natural death? This would only start to happen once you hit some obscene age, perhaps 90?
Quote from: Perth on August 17, 2012, 09:49:01 PM
I would be in favor of some form of natural death. Perhaps some kind of check would run every two weeks or so with certain percentage chance of dying a natural death? This would only start to happen once you hit some obscene age, perhaps 90?
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,2793.msg68226.html
Bam!
That's different, dawg.
But, it's gonna be awesome if implemented, nonetheless.
...Has anyone seen my hat?
Quote from: Geronus on August 18, 2012, 12:25:13 AM
...Has anyone seen my hat?
Do you need to eat it or something?
Eat it! Eat it! Eat it!
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 18, 2012, 12:28:41 AM
Do you need to eat it or something?
Soon enough. Sadly I've had spotty internet for the last week or so. But I'll just blame Perth for nothing happening. I mean cmon he's managed to secure more of hammards lands in a week than I have in the entire war.
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 18, 2012, 12:28:41 AM
Do you need to eat it or something?
No. I just want to know where it is.
Quote from: Geronus on August 18, 2012, 07:07:06 AM
No. I just want to know where it is.
Ah. Well if you find it and hop over an ocean, D'Hara might eat it for 50 gold a hat.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 18, 2012, 02:33:27 AM
But I'll just blame Perth for nothing happening. I mean cmon he's managed to secure more of hammards lands in a week than I have in the entire war.
I don't what the hell was so hard about it or what you've been complaining about this whole time. 8)
Eston fell for my ingenious plan to make them lose regions. They've already lost Lothruin. They are going to lose Lyton and Cheltenborne soon.
Muahahahahahaha! ;D
Quote from: Perth on August 18, 2012, 07:41:55 AM
I don't what the hell was so hard about it or what you've been complaining about this whole time. 8)
I can't help it that the Corian General is incompetent and I have to depend upon my marshal/CE's General to do everything for me.
This war really makes a mercenary realm obsolete, so as a member of Darka, I really think you should all make peace, then maybe have a smaller war that someone can buy our services for.
Second option would be for us to cancel all alliances and sit at home unless someone pays us to fight.
Quote from: Lady De La Coeur on August 18, 2012, 02:59:45 PM
This war really makes a mercenary realm obsolete, so as a member of Darka, I really think you should all make peace, then maybe have a smaller war that someone can buy our services for.
Second option would be for us to cancel all alliances and sit at home unless someone pays us to fight.
Not really. If Darka switched sides for money, the Northern Alliance would !@#$ their pants. The stalemate would be gone, and the NA would crumple, with Hammarsett dying pretty soon after the switch.
KK, though, thinks for some reason we should be mercenaries in every war except this one? Some BS about CE having their tentacles in too many barrels of wine. :P
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 18, 2012, 04:38:42 PM
Not really. If Darka switched sides for money, the Northern Alliance would !@#$ their pants. The stalemate would be gone, and the NA would crumple, with Hammarsett dying pretty soon after the switch.
KK, though, thinks for some reason we should be mercenaries in every war except this one? Some BS about CE having their tentacles in too many barrels of wine. :P
Dude, nobody likes tentacle wine.
We are a mercenary realm, we should be Neutral to everyone and motivated only by self interest. Pay us enough money and we should drink that wine tentacles or not!
That's a nice sentiment, but unpractical. While we could act like that (and inquiries have been made of us), you can't afford to piss off your neighbors and still expect them to let you march armies through their land. They will eventually strike when you are otherwise occupied.
It takes a lot of diplomacy to be a mercenary realm. You have to prevent too many people from getting angry with you.
Quote from: Indirik on August 18, 2012, 06:01:13 PM
That's a nice sentiment, but unpractical. While we could act like that (and inquiries have been made of us), you can't afford to piss off your neighbors and still expect them to let you march armies through their land. They will eventually strike when you are otherwise occupied.
It takes a lot of diplomacy to be a mercenary realm. You have to prevent too many people from getting angry with you.
Piss off our neighbors? You mean like we kind of have been pissing off Talerium this whole war?
I am not saying we don't switch sides without conditions. That can be part of the mercenary business... Such as 'destroy Eston and replace the realm with a realm that will sign a border treaty with us so that we can be mercenaries again'.
We haven't pissed off Talerium. I bet they get a laugh out of all the Darkan newbies that get skirmished in Cantril.
Quote from: Indirik on August 18, 2012, 09:34:16 PM
We haven't pissed off Talerium. I bet they get a laugh out of all the Darkan newbies that get skirmished in Cantril.
Have you ever known a Tezokian to laugh? I haven't.
Quote from: Indirik on August 18, 2012, 06:01:13 PM
That's a nice sentiment, but unpractical. While we could act like that (and inquiries have been made of us), you can't afford to piss off your neighbors and still expect them to let you march armies through their land. They will eventually strike when you are otherwise occupied.
It takes a lot of diplomacy to be a mercenary realm. You have to prevent too many people from getting angry with you.
Kostaja's just not greedy enough. Y'all should replace him wiht someone. I mean cmon, how much gold does he even need to take a contract? I know the contracts you used to take certainly weren't as high as the offer I sent recently. He won't even take a bribe. What kind of mercenary realm has a King who won't take a bribe?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 18, 2012, 09:42:33 PM
Kostaja's just not greedy enough. Y'all should replace him wiht someone. I mean cmon, how much gold does he even need to take a contract? I know the contracts you used to take certainly weren't as high as the offer I sent recently. He won't even take a bribe. What kind of mercenary realm has a King who won't take a bribe?
+1
It's a mercenary realm that acknowledges the realities of politics. If Darka took every contract that was offered to betray their current ally, whoever that may be, they would quickly end up ostracised and ganged up on, and for good reason. KK is smart enough to know that. And so are you. So you don't want a greedier Darkan king, you want a dumber one. But for the record, no one in the king's council was willing to consider your offer. Darka just isn't a realm willing to sell its friends short.
Quote from: Indirik on August 18, 2012, 10:58:27 PM
It's a mercenary realm that acknowledges the realities of politics. If Darka took every contract that was offered to betray their current ally, whoever that may be, they would quickly end up ostracised and ganged up on, and for good reason. KK is smart enough to know that. And so are you. So you don't want a greedier Darkan king, you want a dumber one. But for the record, no one in the king's council was willing to consider your offer. Darka just isn't a realm willing to sell its friends short.
Also true. I feel like Darka can be a little riskier, but I understand why we aren't being riskier.
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 18, 2012, 11:02:31 PM
Also true. I feel like Darka can be a little riskier, but I understand why we aren't being riskier.
You could argue this around in circles all day, for every realm on Atamara. It is the reason why Atamara is the way it is.
Quote from: Bael on August 19, 2012, 12:09:26 AM
You could argue this around in circles all day, for every realm on Atamara. It is the reason why Atamara is the way it is.
True, but I am in Darka and they are a freaking mercenary realm! If anyone is going to be risky and unpredictable, it is the mercenaries.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 18, 2012, 02:33:27 AM
Soon enough. Sadly I've had spotty internet for the last week or so. But I'll just blame Perth for nothing happening. I mean cmon he's managed to secure more of hammards lands in a week than I have in the entire war.
I'm wooooooooorking on it. Let's just say it's not Eston, Coria, or
even Hammarsett that is slowing down things.
QuoteNot really. If Darka switched sides for money, the Northern Alliance would !@#$ their pants. The stalemate would be gone, and the NA would crumple, with Hammarsett dying pretty soon after the switch.
Hell, if Darka just didn't do anything for two weeks, Hammarsett would roll over and die, Minas Ithil would hide in their capital and the Barony would just walk through Eston and Talerium to go loot CE.
Quote from: Indirik on August 18, 2012, 10:58:27 PM
It's a mercenary realm that acknowledges the realities of politics. If Darka took every contract that was offered to betray their current ally, whoever that may be, they would quickly end up ostracised and ganged up on, and for good reason. KK is smart enough to know that. And so are you. So you don't want a greedier Darkan king, you want a dumber one. But for the record, no one in the king's council was willing to consider your offer. Darka just isn't a realm willing to sell its friends short.
You want political realities?
Here's one: No one in the Northern Alliance will offer Darka a contract because they are already fighting for the Northern Alliance. The only people who would offer Darka a contract are in the Central Alliance and their contract would only be against members of the Northern Alliance. The Southern tri-fecta are too busy looking at each other crossways and trying to stab each other in the back more often than the Lurians than to offer a contract to Darka and Darka is too far away anyway to even make that worth it.
So, if you want to ever be a mercenary realm (again) you either have to:
1. End this war.
2. Change up what the current sides are (which coincidentally is being slowed down by Kostaja....)
3. Or take a contract with a realm from the central alliance.
If you don't want to take one of those three, then I really don't think you have any right to complain about the current state of events. It's not like you're going to win the war against the central alliance militarily at this point. Y'all took down our city walls from lvl 5 to lvl 2 in a matter of days and within 10 days they were back to level 5 again without even denting Coria's reserve funds. I also know this heavily hurt Hammarsett's ability to keep up a strong army. If Hammarsett loses their full army even once more they will likely have a large problem trying to rebuild it without cutting into their militia.
So, if you really want to find something new and not betray your allies, I'd suggest having Kostaja and Aldarion put their heads together. Plan a little fake skirmishing on your border with Talerium for just two weeks and the Hammarsett problem is over and done with.
Believe it or not, I agree with your assessment of how things are going. But Darka isn't looking for a contract right now. Especially one that requires us to essentially betray an ally. We aren't in this one for the gold. It's a political war.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 19, 2012, 02:10:39 AM
You want political realities?
Here's one: No one in the Northern Alliance will offer Darka a contract because they are already fighting for the Northern Alliance. The only people who would offer Darka a contract are in the Central Alliance and their contract would only be against members of the Northern Alliance. The Southern tri-fecta are too busy looking at each other crossways and trying to stab each other in the back more often than the Lurians than to offer a contract to Darka and Darka is too far away anyway to even make that worth it.
So, if you want to ever be a mercenary realm (again) you either have to:
1. End this war.
2. Change up what the current sides are (which coincidentally is being slowed down by Kostaja....)
3. Or take a contract with a realm from the central alliance.
If you don't want to take one of those three, then I really don't think you have any right to complain about the current state of events. It's not like you're going to win the war against the central alliance militarily at this point. Y'all took down our city walls from lvl 5 to lvl 2 in a matter of days and within 10 days they were back to level 5 again without even denting Coria's reserve funds. I also know this heavily hurt Hammarsett's ability to keep up a strong army. If Hammarsett loses their full army even once more they will likely have a large problem trying to rebuild it without cutting into their militia.
So, if you really want to find something new and not betray your allies, I'd suggest having Kostaja and Aldarion put their heads together. Plan a little fake skirmishing on your border with Talerium for just two weeks and the Hammarsett problem is over and done with.
There is an option number four which is better and funnier.
Quote from: Skiarxon on August 19, 2012, 02:45:05 AM
There is an option number four which is better and funnier.
Implode? Give Talerium or Eston all your lands and join Coria? Take a 2 week break in your capitol for a constant festival? Pretty much all of these get the job done.
It's even more fun that.
4. Win the war.
Good to see you again, Skairxon. :D
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 19, 2012, 02:10:39 AM
You want political realities?
Here's one: No one in the Northern Alliance will offer Darka a contract
Not true. I basically told Kostaja to name his price to either attack Talerium and/or support the Kerwin/Merlin treaty proposal and he politely turned me down like I was trying to sell him fruit on the side of the road. :-\
EDIT: Basically Darka has gone from brutal mercenary realm to Eddard Stark-never-betray-an-ally Honor realm in one war. I mean, I'm not complaining if people have been trying to turn them on Eston, as I'm sure some have, but it's still crazy to me the switch!
Quote from: Perth on August 19, 2012, 08:11:40 AM
Not true. I basically told Kostaja to name his price to either attack Talerium and/or support the Kerwin/Merlin treaty proposal and he politely turned me down like I was trying to sell him fruit on the side of the road. :-\
EDIT: Basically Darka has gone from brutal mercenary realm to Eddard Stark-never-betray-an-ally Honor realm in one war. I mean, I'm not complaining if people have been trying to turn them on Eston, as I'm sure some have, but it's still crazy to me the switch!
Maybe you should offer them a duchy of Eston. I hear they like that more than other contracts.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 19, 2012, 08:15:04 AM
Maybe you should offer them a duchy of Eston. I hear they like that more than other contracts.
...I said I told him to "name his price" didn't I?
I guess....
Perhaps I just get the feeling that Kostaja only knows what end of the sword to stick at your enemy and not much else. He never really responds much to my character. So either that makes him really really smart, or just dumb.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 19, 2012, 09:08:44 AM
Perhaps I just get the feeling that Kostaja only knows what end of the sword to stick at your enemy and not much else. He never really responds much to my character. So either that makes him really really smart, or just dumb.
I know that feel, bro.
He's a freaking enigma! I can't get a read on him! It's always just "Good day! Doop, dedoop, doo!"
He !@#$s with your minds cause this is how he rolls.
Quote from: Skiarxon on August 19, 2012, 09:24:21 AM
He !@#$s with your minds cause this is how he rolls.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kostaja never got any of my letters but instead Indirik intercepted them all and burned them after laughing at them with his drinking buddies (ie. the NA generals)
Ah, i have had a busy week, been on vacation and shoveled poop like there would be no tomorrow... but tomorrow comes and back to work.
Soo, reason why this is not time to sell out friends is... we are going very short on friends here at NA.
Every time when coalition member does its own magic on diplomatic front, it causes drama and trouble. Coalition and alliance means that we fight together, we win together, we lose together and most of all... we negotiate together.
Quote from: Perth on August 19, 2012, 09:13:38 AM
I know that feel, bro.
He's a freaking enigma! I can't get a read on him! It's always just "Good day! Doop, dedoop, doo!"
Ever since seeing The Dark Knight Rises, I read KK's letters in Bane's voice. It's much more entertaining.
Quote from: jaune on August 19, 2012, 09:48:29 AM
Ah, i have had a busy week, been on vacation and shoveled poop like there would be no tomorrow... but tomorrow comes and back to work.
Soo, reason why this is not time to sell out friends is... we are going very short on friends here at NA.
Every time when coalition member does its own magic on diplomatic front, it causes drama and trouble. Coalition and alliance means that we fight together, we win together, we lose together and most of all... we negotiate together.
Y'all don't negotiate. You do fight together though.
I'd like to rephrase this last line to read this though: "We're like any typical large government, no matter what we say, in the end we never get anything done."
Quote from: Eirikr on August 19, 2012, 01:17:58 AM
I'm wooooooooorking on it. Let's just say it's not Eston, Coria, or even Hammarsett that is slowing down things.
Hell, if Darka just didn't do anything for two weeks, Hammarsett would roll over and die, Minas Ithil would hide in their capital and the Barony would just walk through Eston and Talerium to go attempt to loot CE.
Added in the two missing words. Reads more realistically already ;)
C'mon, let's just have Darka switch sides then Tara can go beat up Suville.
Quote from: Darksun on August 19, 2012, 05:36:56 PM
C'mon, let's just have Darka switch sides then Tara can go beat up Suville.
I am surprised to hear that from a Suvillian though you do also have a Taran character. Regardless I support the idea.
Quote from: Darksun on August 19, 2012, 05:36:56 PM
C'mon, let's just have Darka switch sides then Tara can go beat up Suville.
At this point, I'd be happy to see that happen. If losing this war is the price of ending it, I will gladly pay up. I'm deathly bored with the whole thing. Eston and Darka should have a contest to see who can turn coat faster, and the rest of the Northern Alliance should just drop dead. It's over and we're not going to win unless something dramatic happens to break up the other side's alliances. If it doesn't, the best we can hope for is for this stalemate to go on forever and frankly that sounds like some sort of Battlemaster hell.
Quote from: Geronus on August 19, 2012, 05:46:59 PM
At this point, I'd be happy to see that happen. If losing this war is the price of ending it, I will gladly pay up. I'm deathly bored with the whole thing. Eston and Darka should have a contest to see who can turn coat faster, and the rest of the Northern Alliance should just drop dead. It's over and we're not going to win unless something dramatic happens to break up the other side's alliances. If it doesn't, the best we can hope for is for this stalemate to go on forever and frankly that sounds like some sort of Battlemaster hell.
Sitting in Cantril picking his nose - yep, sure sounds like a good time for my character! Now just to get back to that RP that I was writing... (on second thoughts, I'm going away for a week... ???)
Quote from: Geronus on August 19, 2012, 05:46:59 PM
At this point, I'd be happy to see that happen. If losing this war is the price of ending it, I will gladly pay up. I'm deathly bored with the whole thing. Eston and Darka should have a contest to see who can turn coat faster, and the rest of the Northern Alliance should just drop dead. It's over and we're not going to win unless something dramatic happens to break up the other side's alliances. If it doesn't, the best we can hope for is for this stalemate to go on forever and frankly that sounds like some sort of Battlemaster hell.
There has been talk of big changes in the Order of the Raven. Can't say more other than that.
Meh...
Darka will not be a mercenary realm again, that sadly obvious. Yet, biggest risk they took was war on CE ^_^. I find that interesting, it was on the minds of Darkan's for a long time. Then when they go I come back and decide to try the life on the other side, Ha.
I miss 7UP and the rps back then.
On another note... Diplomacy confusing when's the damion invasion coming?
Quote from: Blue Star on August 19, 2012, 07:25:09 PM
Meh...
Darka will not be a mercenary realm again, that sadly obvious. Yet, biggest risk they took was war on CE ^_^. I find that interesting, it was on the minds of Darkan's for a long time. Then when they go I come back and decide to try the life on the other side, Ha.
They can be a mercenary realm again, but not under KK, I think. KK would have to switch stances to make sure we can be mercenary again, and then a new King/Queen dedicated to the mercenary tradition of Darka would have to arise after that, and make that clear to everyone...
Quote from: Geronus on August 19, 2012, 05:46:59 PM
At this point, I'd be happy to see that happen. If losing this war is the price of ending it, I will gladly pay up. I'm deathly bored with the whole thing. Eston and Darka should have a contest to see who can turn coat faster, and the rest of the Northern Alliance should just drop dead. It's over and we're not going to win unless something dramatic happens to break up the other side's alliances. If it doesn't, the best we can hope for is for this stalemate to go on forever and frankly that sounds like some sort of Battlemaster hell.
If you want that to happen you can have it happen over night if you just send a three word letter (from your Ruler) to all of your fellow Northern Alliance members: "Accept the proposal". They'll understand.
Quote from: Blue Star on August 19, 2012, 07:25:09 PMDarka will not be a mercenary realm again
Not until after some peace agreement is reached to end the current set of wars. Or something monumental happens to change the entire political landscape of the island.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 19, 2012, 08:15:35 PM
If you want that to happen you can have it happen over night if you just send a three word letter (from your Ruler) to all of your fellow Northern Alliance members: "Accept the proposal". They'll understand.
Wish they would already...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 19, 2012, 08:15:35 PM
If you want that to happen you can have it happen over night if you just send a three word letter (from your Ruler) to all of your fellow Northern Alliance members: "Accept the proposal". They'll understand.
Maybby you should send that to your own ruler, he understands. I made him counter proposal and he declined it short handedly.
I sent a peace proposal to the Order of the Raven. At least Hammarsett liked it... :P
I love this war. :D Through the whole trying to run around the Cagilan farmlands and running headfirst to the walls of Nida and Skalk to seeing the population of the Carelian regions at practically 20% of what it could be. It's been very exciting to be fighting for Carelia.
Then again our battlefields have always been rather close, and right now it's next to our capital, so there's very little marching back and forth. Also, it's always lovely when others take the position of the "bad guy" and we can run these pompous "we are so honorable in our struggle against the evil southern backstabbers" and "my horse is amazing"-roleplays.
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 19, 2012, 08:12:54 PM
They can be a mercenary realm again, but not under KK, I think. KK would have to switch stances to make sure we can be mercenary again, and then a new King/Queen dedicated to the mercenary tradition of Darka would have to arise after that, and make that clear to everyone...
I think without KK Darka's mercenary days would of ended a long time ago. Perhaps to in fighting or it would of went out in a blaze of glory. That would be a fun ride.
Is Hammersett destroyed yet? The South has a giant last I heard maybe they will make things a little bit interesting if they ever manage to throw some of that weight around they have acquired.
This political shift you speak of would be interesting if it happens just like that damion invasion im still waiting for
Quote from: Blue Star on August 19, 2012, 10:00:44 PM
This political shift you speak of would be interesting if it happens just like that damion invasion im still waiting for
Bah. If I wanted a daimon invasion I would move back to Belu.
Sorry. We killed them all already..
Quote from: Lorgan on August 19, 2012, 11:10:35 PM
Sorry. We killed them all already..
For now. They tend to pop in from time to time. Like a mother-in-law that comes to your house and !@#$s stuff up.
Nah, actually, now it's just undead and monster spawning scrolls that hang over the continent like a couple dozen nuclear deterrents. Afaik, there won't be a new "real" invasion.
Still, this is going to be interesting. We've already had one of our nobles killed in a debate over the ethics of using those scrolls in Thalmarkin. :)
I can't wait til people start using them.
Quote from: Lorgan on August 20, 2012, 12:13:37 AM
Nah, actually, now it's just undead and monster spawning scrolls that hang over the continent like a couple dozen nuclear deterrents. Afaik, there won't be a new "real" invasion.
Still, this is going to be interesting. We've already had one of our nobles killed in a debate over the ethics of using those scrolls in Thalmarkin. :)
From what I heard, no mod-controlled invasions. Tom may get angry one day and drop 250K Daimons on Belu just for kicks and giggles.
Yeah. Can't believe he got killed by someone with 10% swordfighting...
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 20, 2012, 01:11:41 AM
From what I heard, no mod-controlled invasions. Tom may get angry one day and drop 250K Daimons on Belu just for kicks and giggles.
Yeah. Can't believe he got killed by someone with 10% swordfighting...
10% swordfighting and 90% craziness. :P
Quote from: Indirik on August 20, 2012, 01:04:44 AM
I can't wait til people start using them.
Same. :)
I've got one but I don't intend on using it just yet... Everyone probably feels that way at the moment but one day, it'll explode. :)
Please stay on topic. The thread is already long enough without getting cluttered with stuff about other islands.
In the interest of getting back on topic I flipped back to the first page to look at some of our predictions. Let's see how they did.
Quote from: Foundation on March 02, 2011, 12:27:39 PM
Prediction: The war will continue, and Darka will help one side, and that side will win their conflict. The rest of the war will just be a (much needed) drain of gold and resources and not result in any real change.
Pretty accurate "not result in any real change" except Darka's side isn't winning.
Quote from: Revan on March 02, 2011, 01:16:18 PM
Prediction: Carelia to be double-crossed by Caergoth and Suville when the war either drags on too long or Carelia starts losing. Would place money on it.
Almost 100% correct.
Quote from: egamma on March 02, 2011, 01:38:51 PM
Prediction:
The Caligan Empire will be threatened with destruction and every realm fighting them will have 100 undead spawn in every region.
So far from the truth I'm saddened.
Quote from: Bedwyr on March 02, 2011, 10:27:45 PM
Prediction: It's going to be a glorious, bloody mess and whichever side ends up winning is going to start fighting over the spoils in short order, possibly soon enough to let the losing side come back.
Glorious is so far from what has happened... :(
Quote from: Geronus on August 19, 2012, 05:46:59 PM
the best we can hope for is for this stalemate to go on forever and frankly that sounds like some sort of Battlemaster hell.
*looks at Minas Ithil*
Right. "Stalemate".
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 20, 2012, 02:05:06 AM
Almost 100% correct.
That would be more like 50% correct because only Suville betrayed Carelia, Caergoth went to crap and couldn't help for awhile but now its helping Carelia again.
Quote from: Penchant on August 20, 2012, 03:38:20 AM
That would be more like 50% correct because only Suville betrayed Carelia, Caergoth went to crap and couldn't help for awhile but now its helping Carelia again.
Well, they got the time period right though too.
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 20, 2012, 03:40:30 AM
Well, they got the time period right though too.
So how about they were 75% right?
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 20, 2012, 02:20:08 AM
*looks at Minas Ithil*
Right. "Stalemate".
You disagree? Do go on. I'm curious about the view from the other side of the fence.
Isn't it obvious from just looking at the map?
I'm not going to offer further evidence. People wouldn't be sharing secret information with me if I blabbed about it on the forums.
Of course there will be a change on this war, and will be Suville going north.
The beast is hard to contain, and even harder to get them our our backyard, it will be the last push necessary for the north to surrender, or go behind walls.
In no time i will be Releasing The Kraken!
The problem for now is that it requires too much food to feed, :-\ but we will see....we will see...
Peace!
Quote from: Sonya on August 20, 2012, 03:13:25 PM
Of course there will be a change on this war, and will be Suville going north.
The beast is hard to contain, and even harder to get them our our backyard, it will be the last push necessary for the north to surrender, or go behind walls.
Suville can hardly beat Carelia on most days. That and their distance make their stance in this war next to irrelevant.
Quote from: Uzamaki on August 20, 2012, 03:54:23 PM
Suville can hardly beat Carelia on most days. That and their distance make their stance in this war next to irrelevant.
It's not so much Suville's ability to project power past Tara and towards the NA, but rather the proxy war that Tara is waging via Carelia and Caergoth against Suville. As soon as it becomes are real war between the realms it opens up a whole new front for Tara to defend.
Of course, Ottar and his masters in Cagil won't let it come to that, but negotiations are pretty delicate at current. Carelia and it's "never surrender" policy aren't making it any easier.
Quote from: Darksun on August 20, 2012, 06:49:24 PM
Carelia and it's "never surrender" policy aren't making it any easier.
How dare they not simply roll over and die! Carelia has done plenty of surrendering recently though.
Quote from: jaune on August 19, 2012, 08:58:01 PM
Maybby you should send that to your own ruler, he understands. I made him counter proposal and he declined it short handedly.
Right here, bud. Can't accept a counter proposal that shoots myself in the foot. Especially when the current proposal has had so many compromises from both sides already that any further major changes would again favor either side too much or reduce it to nothingness.
For those following along at home, nothing to see here, these aren't the droids you're looking for.
Good grief, now I have a number of Lords clamoring for Eston to try to lay claim to and keep all the regions around the Duchy of Shanandoah.
They seem realistically think this would work, or that it would go well for us, or that it would some how lend itself to winning the war.
Quote from: Perth on August 20, 2012, 10:14:18 PM
Good grief, now I have a number of Lords clamoring for Eston to try to lay claim to and keep all the regions around the Duchy of Shanandoah.
They seem realistically think this would work, or that it would go well for us, or that it would some how lend itself to winning the war.
If I was drinking anything right now, it'd have spewed forth from my nose due to laughter.
Quote from: Eirikr on August 20, 2012, 10:16:25 PM
If I was drinking anything right now, it'd have spewed forth from my nose due to laughter.
I'm not kidding. They are seriously upset with me about it and think I am "weak and conservative" for giving them away.
Quote from: Perth on August 20, 2012, 10:14:18 PM
Good grief, now I have a number of Lords clamoring for Eston to try to lay claim to and keep all the regions around the Duchy of Shanandoah.
They seem realistically think this would work, or that it would go well for us, or that it would some how lend itself to winning the war.
*Geronus guffaws loudly, causing his coworkers to stare at him suspiciously
Silly Eston.
Quote from: Indirik on August 20, 2012, 11:29:53 PM
Silly Eston.
I am exasperated at this. Now two Lords and a Duke are vehemently arguing with me about how it is "ludicrous" that I would be giving away regions "without resistance" to an enemy realm. It's like they have no knowledge of the political and military reality around us. It is like they have been alseep and just woke up "Oh, some regions over there came over to us. Uh, why the hell aren't we keeping them?" I AM GOING TO GO INSANE.
Quote from: Perth on August 20, 2012, 11:41:13 PM
I am exasperated at this. Now two Lords and a Duke are vehemently arguing with me about how it is "ludicrous" that I would be giving away regions "without resistance" to an enemy realm. It's like they have no knowledge of the political and military reality around us. It is like they have been alseep and just woke up "Oh, some regions over there came over to us. Uh, why the hell aren't we keeping them?" I AM GOING TO GO INSANE.
Sounds like they are acting like true Medieval Nobles then. Besides they might well understand the realities, they might just want to make trouble for your character.
Quote from: De-Legro on August 21, 2012, 12:26:04 AM
Sounds like they are acting like true Medieval Nobles then. Besides they might well understand the realities, they might just want to make trouble for your character.
Wish they were in Dwilight...
Quote from: De-Legro on August 21, 2012, 12:26:04 AM
Sounds like they are acting like true Medieval Nobles then. Besides they might well understand the realities, they might just want to make trouble for your character.
This is likely the case. Or at least I hope so. I sincerely hope they don't ACTUALLY think what they are proposing is rational.
Nevertheless, I have been forced to acquiesce and I may have to withdraw my support for the treaty.
Quote from: Indirik on August 20, 2012, 11:29:53 PM
Silly Eston.
Silly Eston, Trix are for kids.
Quote from: Perth on August 21, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
Nevertheless, I have been forced to acquiesce and I may have to withdraw my support for the treaty.
What kind of weak King are you anyway?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 21, 2012, 12:57:37 AM
What kind of weak King are you anyway?
Pretty weak.
This war has been raging the whole time I've been King. I've never really had time to purge opponents or consolidate a lot of power. It sucks :/ Not to mention Eston has A LOT of entrenched old power. 3 of my 4 Dukes are characters in their 70s or 80s, and have been the Dukes of those cities (or other cities, or ex-Kings of Eston) since I've been in the realm in 2008. Seriously.
Quote from: Perth on August 21, 2012, 01:24:51 AM
Pretty weak.
This war has been raging the whole time I've been King. I've never really had time to purge opponents or consolidate a lot of power. It sucks :/ Not to mention Eston has A LOT of entrenched old power. 3 of my 4 Dukes are characters in their 70s or 80s, and have been the Dukes of those cities (or other cities, or ex-Kings of Eston) since I've been in the realm in 2008. Seriously.
Hmm...may need to find myself a new lackey.
Quote from: Perth on August 21, 2012, 12:49:04 AM
Nevertheless, I have been forced to acquiesce and I may have to withdraw my support for the treaty.
Or you could quietly find a way get it done anyway. There are a number of potentially subtle solutions to this problem.
Quote from: Perth on August 20, 2012, 10:19:07 PM
I'm not kidding. They are seriously upset with me about it and think I am "weak and conservative" for giving them away.
Still being relatively new to Atamara, can you tell me why holding these regions would be so ridiculous?
Quote from: Velax on August 21, 2012, 07:10:34 AM
Still being relatively new to Atamara, can you tell me why holding these regions would be so ridiculous?
I just don't think the politics add up. I highly doubt Coria would be okay with it. I honestly think Coria would fight us for them. I mean why not, they've been fighting a war for two years now to gain them, and I don't realistically see how we could hope to defend the regions in far East while defending our borders in the far West. Just doesn't seem to add up; I guess a lot of people think I'm wrong though.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 21, 2012, 04:51:15 AM
Hmm...may need to find myself a new lackey.
B..but... can I still be your lover?
Quote from: Perth on August 21, 2012, 08:13:16 AM
I just don't think the politics add up. I highly doubt Coria would be okay with it. I honestly think Coria would fight us for them. I mean why not, they've been fighting a war for two years now to gain them, and I don't realistically see how we could hope to defend the regions in far East while defending our borders in the far West. Just doesn't seem to add up; I guess a lot of people think I'm wrong though.
Oh, yes, Eston should definitely try to defend those regions. You can afford to pull most of your knights out of Nazamroth for this. I promise not to take advantage of the situation. ;)
Quote from: Perth on August 21, 2012, 08:13:41 AM
B..but... can I still be your lover?
Aha! I knew it!
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 21, 2012, 08:26:57 AM
Oh, yes, Eston should definitely try to defend those regions. You can afford to pull most of your knights out of Nazamroth for this. I promise not to take advantage of the situation. ;)
Golly gee! Thanks!
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 21, 2012, 08:26:57 AM
Aha! I knew it!
YOU SAW NOTHING! NOTHING!
Quote from: Perth on August 21, 2012, 08:13:41 AM
B..but... can I still be your lover?
If you wanna be his lover, you have to get with his friends.
Heh, i have solution for my dear Toyboy neighbour... Shake hand with Tallies and spank Corians... Show to your lover who is The Man on that relationship :P
-Jaune
If he spanks my General, I am finding a new General. I only want manly generals.
Unrelated: If a noble named himself "Specific", I would instantly promote him to General. That way, I could giggle every time I had to address him. "General Specific!"
Quote from: Eirikr on August 21, 2012, 10:02:04 AM
If he spanks my General, I am finding a new General. I only want manly generals.
Unrelated: If a noble named himself "Specific", I would instantly promote him to General. That way, I could giggle every time I had to address him. "General Specific!"
Replace me? Who would you replace me with?
Good luck with that one...lol
Look like war is coming to an end. Pretty soon one realm will end up dead these days 8)
QuoteSkirmish in Nemaha (1 day, 6 hours ago)
Small forces from Minas Ithil attacked Nemaha, but were quickly surrounded by overwhelming defending units. Vastly outnumbered, the attackers surrendered and were all captured.
QuoteTakeover (1 day, 6 hours ago)
message to Everyone on Atamara
Tara has taken control of Nemaha. The region used to belong to Minas Ithil.
QuoteTakeover (1 day, 6 hours ago)
message to Everyone on Atamara
Suville has taken control of Lurgrod. The region used to belong to (rogue).
Quote from: Ketchum on August 22, 2012, 12:42:47 PM
Look like war is coming to an end. Pretty soon one realm will end up dead these days 8)
This war will never end until CE and Tara are the only two remaining realms!!!
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 22, 2012, 05:29:13 PM
This war will never end until CE and Tara are the only two remaining realms!!!
Is not hard, they just have to occupy the center of the continent, and make any other outside region Rogue.
Is the only way to Unofficially, noncompetitive, dishonorable, disheartening, (
CENSORED) way to win the game.
Which, OF COURSE, will bring a amazing Realm Wide Storm of Lighting Bolts, that even
Thor, Pikachu, Nikola would be jealous.
I remember i had a discussion like that ion IRC around 2007-2008
Peace!
Quote from: Sonya on August 22, 2012, 06:36:47 PM
Is not hard, they just have to occupy the center of the continent, and make any other outside region Rogue.
Is the only way to Unofficially, noncompetitive, dishonorable, disheartening, (CENSORED) way to win the game.
Which, OF COURSE, will bring a amazing Realm Wide Storm of Lighting Bolts, that even Thor, Pikachu, Nikola would be jealous.
I remember i had a discussion like that ion IRC around 2007-2008
Peace!
How would that bring lightning bolts? That hardly makes sense to me. If somehow you convince everyone to go along with that and not have Dukes seceding to form new realms or colonizations happen, I think you should be able to do it.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 21, 2012, 05:14:04 PM
Replace me? Who would you replace me with?
Good luck with that one...lol
Saeculo's back. ;)
Plus, I'm sure Wind wouldn't mind coming back to the military.
Of course I don't think Merlin and Kerwin (how did I not notice the similarity in names until now?) are kinky like that.
Quote from: Eirikr on August 22, 2012, 10:00:01 PM
Saeculo's back. ;)
Plus, I'm sure Wind wouldn't mind coming back to the military.
Of course I don't think Merlin and Kerwin (how did I not notice the similarity in names until now?) are kinky like that.
Whelp...time to get a new Consul....and I'm don't mean Saeculo. ;)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 22, 2012, 08:19:20 PM
How would that bring lightning bolts? That hardly makes sense to me. If somehow you convince everyone to go along with that and not have Dukes seceding to form new realms or colonizations happen, I think you should be able to do it.
But the simply act of destroying realms just for the sake of World Conquer, will take the fun out other people, and that's what the IR protect more.
And of course, it will be more a OCC cooperation, because there is no way you can explain IC (without opposition), that you wish to conquer a continent just to have it go rogue.
And once the rest of the continent know the plan it will be nearly impossible to do on Atamara, but on FEI would be more easy.
You have to agree, that's the best part of BM is that realms disappear and new ones are reborn, if we forbid the creation of new realms will be the less fun continent ever.
Peace!
Quote from: Sonya on August 22, 2012, 10:09:12 PM
And of course, it will be more a OCC cooperation, because there is no way you can explain IC (without opposition), that you wish to conquer a continent just to have it go rogue.
True, but you can explain IC to do it (with opposition). Succeeding against opposition shouldn't be punished. My character has already advocated in the past for taking lands, letting them go rogue, but retaining claims on them as a defensive measure.
Quote from: Sonya on August 22, 2012, 10:09:12 PM
And of course, it will be more a OCC cooperation, because there is no way you can explain IC (without opposition), that you wish to conquer a continent just to have it go rogue.
Isn't this how the current war started? Some OOC co-operation between Carelia and the North?
Quote from: Darksun on August 22, 2012, 10:16:39 PM
Isn't this how the current war started? Some OOC co-operation between Carelia and the North?
errr....what?
There was no OOC collusion to the start of the war. Darka's participation was completely IC.
Also: @sonya: "If it can't be mine, it won't be anyone's!" That's a great motivation for destroying every region not in your meglomaniacal ruler's realm.
Quote from: Darksun on August 22, 2012, 10:16:39 PM
Isn't this how the current war started? Some OOC co-operation between Carelia and the North?
OK.
I have no idea what you are talking about, by the time the war started i was a lazy duchess, only log into game 1 maybe 2 times a week to buy food.
I would NEVER support any OCC motive to use on IC game play!
But let me explain some bits of what i can remember, since OF COURSE, i was in favor to abolish the continent-wide peace:
Brakus stien (Caergoth) demanded Carelia to abolish the MS temple on Serq'uea, they menace they would attack if we wouldn't do it.
- We agreed to demolish that Temple, and to compensate, i build one in Strombran, then sent a letter to Brakus to come and take off the one on Strombran if he could. This also made the Empire angry.
- Don't remember the reason but Caergoth and Suville declared war on Carelia, there were some fight in the south, etc. i was busy with exams in these times.
- The Empire (angry by the temple on Strombran) wanted Carelai to take it down, i told them it was in replacement for the one on Ser'quea, on the nice way, and also, they have no reason to tell what another realm should or shouldn't have on their territory, they also said they would help us against Caergoth and Suville if we destroyed the temple on Strombran.
- I rejected, because that would bring back the boring peace, and that we will deal ourselves with Suville and Caergoth.
- By that time the Empire was at war (cant remember against who) and since it smelled it was gonna be another 4 vs 1 war, we decided no to help the Empire and fight our personal war, which was on equal force and it was fun.
- Later we got a new King (Nathan) and suddenly we are allied with Caergoth and Suville fighting the Empire (didn't even noticed the transition, but i remember a letter from Suville asking Carelia to fight the Empire)
- The rest is known by most people here, Suville got convinced by the Empire to stop supporting Carelia, in fact they even started to attack Carelia from the south.
- Secession, rebellions and internal conflict on Caergoth, disabled their support for Carelia
- ??????????
- Profit!!
I do not see the part where it became a OCC war, have no idea how was on the north, but on the south it has been IC all the time.
It was King Bartho (of Carelia) who commented about starting the war in an OOC fashion. This might have been the original war with Suville and Caergoth. It was long enough ago that Carelia has gone through 3 monarchs and as many duchies since then.
Ohh yeahh i forgot Bartho, thanks for refreshing!
I hate when old timers stop playing the game, i wish to have everyone's phone to spam them to come back, some one need to make a player's contact list.
Peace
ps:
Also.. i wish the people stop destroying my realms, now i have to update my signature pic again!
Oh Bartho, it was him who succested to me to attack against Darka. When I rejected that offer, well we all know what happened after that.
As far as i know there was no OOC poop when this war was started. There was a lot discussion and negotiating between rulers of south & north. We knew there was a risk that southern part of coalition might be shaky... what surprised me most was lack of intrest of south to fight this war(except Carelia) which was backstabbed ugly way. Another big surprise was that there was some solo things at north as well. We had agreed to fight as one, and i expected that to be case when making agreements with enemy realms.
Again, i must raise my hat(crown?) to CE and mayby to Tara as well, how good they have been on this... and mayby to crawl on the corner and shame now poorly we have progressed. Carelia's fall was a disaster and made me feel real bad. They didnt deserve that and we should have been able to help em more, which we were not able to do.
Now there is some intresting diplomacy things going as well. Time will show how this turns out.
Carelia fighted with spirit against CE but it wasn't enough. They paid heavily and now another realm is figting against them. One of thei old allies. Because of this greediness Tara is aiding Carelia, we can't do much but atleast we are trying.
Quote from: Zadar on August 23, 2012, 10:06:19 AM
Carelia fighted with spirit against CE but it wasn't enough. They paid heavily and now another realm is figting against them. One of thei old allies. Because of this greediness Tara is aiding Carelia, we can't do much but atleast we are trying.
Now that's just not true at all. If you left us alone for a while, you could do a lot. Come on, it's not like Coria needs the help anymore... Go rain on someone else's parade for a while. ;D
Quote from: Geronus on August 23, 2012, 03:38:26 PM
Now that's just not true at all. If you left us alone for a while, you could do a lot. Come on, it's not like Coria needs the help anymore... Go rain on someone else's parade for a while. ;D
Wait, I'm confused... Are you telling Darka to give up on Hammarsett or are you saying Coria's become strong enough to fight on our own?
I don't know Zadar IC... Sounds Darkan, though?
Can Hammarsett roll over and die now, please? I've got other things I want to do. :(
Quote from: Darksun on August 22, 2012, 10:58:00 PM
It was King Bartho (of Carelia) who commented about starting the war in an OOC fashion. This might have been the original war with Suville and Caergoth. It was long enough ago that Carelia has gone through 3 monarchs and as many duchies since then.
Yes, that was referring to the war with Suville and Caergoth. It was one of the (many) reasons that when Leta took the throne that war ended in short order. Player of Leta was pretty disgusted that it war arranged OOC.
Quote from: Eirikr on August 27, 2012, 12:28:19 AM
Wait, I'm confused... Are you telling Darka to give up on Hammarsett or are you saying Coria's become strong enough to fight on our own?
I don't know Zadar IC... Sounds Darkan, though?
Can Hammarsett roll over and die now, please? I've got other things I want to do. :(
Zadar plays the Perkeleet family I believe. You know, Ottar. If you want us to roll over, make a better offer. Your current offer isn't really all that enticing.
Quote from: Geronus on August 27, 2012, 03:26:26 AM
Zadar plays the Perkeleet family I believe. You know, Ottar. If you want us to roll over, make a better offer. Your current offer isn't really all that enticing.
Will you roll over for cookies?
Quote from: Geronus on August 27, 2012, 03:26:26 AM
Zadar plays the Perkeleet family I believe. You know, Ottar. If you want us to roll over, make a better offer. Your current offer isn't really all that enticing.
Well Perth is being a ....well I'll leave that open ended.
Y'all can vote for a member of Hammarsett to take his spot in Coria's *cough* (Merlin's) *cough* lap? The person could even change once a month or something.
How's that?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 27, 2012, 04:45:50 AM
Well Perth is being a ....well I'll leave that open ended.
Y'all can vote for a member of Hammarsett to take his spot in Coria's *cough* (Merlin's) *cough* lap? The person could even change once a month or something.
How's that?
What have I done!?
It's your Consul who put the treaty on hold!
Quote from: Geronus on August 27, 2012, 03:26:26 AM
Zadar plays the Perkeleet family I believe. You know, Ottar. If you want us to roll over, make a better offer. Your current offer isn't really all that enticing.
Oh, gotcha. Makes MUCH more sense now.
Now really, how enticing does an offer have to be for a realm with one city? You can't honestly expect after a two-year war that we're going to offer you all lordships around our lake with beach chairs and pina coladas. Hell, I'm Consul and I don't even get that! I don't even technically have land to myself... I've got the best house in Barad Falas, but that's it.
Wait... Would you do it for a Scooby Snack?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on August 27, 2012, 04:45:50 AM
Well Perth is being a ....well I'll leave that open ended.
Y'all can vote for a member of Hammarsett to take his spot in Coria's *cough* (Merlin's) *cough* lap? The person could even change once a month or something.
How's that?
Quote from: Perth on August 27, 2012, 06:21:29 AM
What have I done!?
It's your Consul who put the treaty on hold!
Oh I just
hate it when lovers fight. :'(
I wonder how much pillow talk goes on between Merlin and Kerwin.
Quote from: Perth on August 27, 2012, 06:21:29 AM
What have I done!?
It's your Consul who put the treaty on hold!
How about you give me Barad Lacirith to make it even? I'm only Duke of two cities right now and I'm looking to expand.
Quote from: Eirikr on August 27, 2012, 07:58:47 AM
Hell, I'm Consul and I don't even get that! I don't even technically have land to myself... I've got the best house in Barad Falas, but that's it.
I guess you're right. Definitely the best house. I've got the best palace though. :D
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 27, 2012, 08:27:53 AM
Oh I just hate it when lovers fight. :'(
I wonder how much pillow talk goes on between Merlin and Kerwin.
I wonder if CE is really paying Darka a contract this entire war to "fight" CE, but really have Hammarsett slowly die and allow Enri to have fun playing at General. I mean if it wasn't for Darka, the war would have ended way too quickly. But Generals love stalemates...they get to retain power longer.
Quote from: GoldPanda on August 27, 2012, 08:27:53 AM
Oh I just hate it when lovers fight. :'(
I wonder how much pillow talk goes on between Merlin and Kerwin.
Merlin used to talk to Kerwin all the time. Now he doesn't. :'(
He dont need you anymore, he got what he wanted from you... now he is murmuring other peoples ear to get what he wants next :)
Quote from: Eirikr on August 27, 2012, 07:58:47 AM
Oh, gotcha. Makes MUCH more sense now.
Now really, how enticing does an offer have to be for a realm with one city? You can't honestly expect after a two-year war that we're going to offer you all lordships around our lake with beach chairs and pina coladas. Hell, I'm Consul and I don't even get that! I don't even technically have land to myself... I've got the best house in Barad Falas, but that's it.
Wait... Would you do it for a Scooby Snack?
Let me give you a little hint. We're not so much focused on winning concessions for ourselves at this point.
Quote from: jaune on August 27, 2012, 11:52:13 AM
He dont need you anymore, he got what he wanted from you... now he is murmuring other peoples ear to get what he wants next :)
It's that little blonde tramp from his office, isn't it!? >:(
Quote from: Geronus on August 27, 2012, 03:21:31 PM
Let me give you a little hint. We're not so much focused on winning concessions for ourselves at this point.
So no Scooby Snacks? Man, that always works with Merlin...
Seriously, though, you're trying (with one city and one city only) to pull concessions for the entire NA? Noble idea, but that's even less reasonable than granting yourselves some decent treatment when your city goes down. Especially since your King keeps professing that he didn't want the war to continue anyway, just that he (and I'm guilty here, too) thought that Coria couldn't back down from Hatred.
Actually, does anyone know when that changed? I was told OOC many times before I even considered becoming Consul that you couldn't go back from Hatred, but it popped up a little while ago that you just take a big peasant mood swing across your realm. I have a feeling it was actually
always this way and I just never checked.
Quote from: Eirikr on August 27, 2012, 08:57:20 PM
he (and I'm guilty here, too) thought that Coria couldn't back down from Hatred.
Actually, does anyone know when that changed? I was told OOC many times before I even considered becoming Consul that you couldn't go back from Hatred, but it popped up a little while ago that you just take a big peasant mood swing across your realm. I have a feeling it was actually always this way and I just never checked.
Yeah, Sasuke looked it up on the wiki. Sure enough, everybody was just ignorant, and we have probably been fighting a stalemate war based on this assumption for a long time now. ::)
Quote from: Eirikr on August 27, 2012, 08:57:20 PM
Seriously, though, you're trying (with one city and one city only) to pull concessions for the entire NA? Noble idea, but that's even less reasonable than granting yourselves some decent treatment when your city goes down. Especially since your King keeps professing that he didn't want the war to continue anyway, just that he (and I'm guilty here, too) thought that Coria couldn't back down from Hatred.
One city that could still take you a long time to siege. We could hold out indefinitely if our allies kept supporting us, a continual thorn in your side, up until you mustered enough strength to storm the city, which is protected by a Fortress. I estimate that you would need at least 30k CS to have a shot, probably more.
I'm not interested in concessions for everyone. I'm interested in a few specific items, or at least I was. MI has been getting on my nerves though, so I might just stop trying to pull their asses out of the fire at this point.
Quote from: Geronus on August 27, 2012, 09:05:57 PM
One city that could still take you a long time to siege. We could hold out indefinitely if our allies kept supporting us, a continual thorn in your side, up until you mustered enough strength to storm the city, which is protected by a Fortress. I estimate that you would need at least 30k CS to have a shot, probably more.
I'm not interested in concessions for everyone. I'm interested in a few specific items, or at least I was. MI has been getting on my nerves though, so I might just stop trying to pull their asses out of the fire at this point.
Well you might as well make them known to Ravendon yourself... It's been MONTHS since I heard of any counter-proposals from Hammarsett. I've heard a lot of "yes" or "no" or "that sounds more reasonable", but nothing to actually work with me to adjust anything. To be fair, I'm not sure how much adjustment we can make, but I can't do anything until I know what it is you want.
Quote from: Eirikr on August 27, 2012, 09:26:10 PM
Well you might as well make them known to Ravendon yourself... It's been MONTHS since I heard of any counter-proposals from Hammarsett. I've heard a lot of "yes" or "no" or "that sounds more reasonable", but nothing to actually work with me to adjust anything. To be fair, I'm not sure how much adjustment we can make, but I can't do anything until I know what it is you want.
The tribulations of not being the ruler: No one comes to you for anything.
I talked to Kerwin about some of my ideas, but he trumped them with a possibility that seemed to good to be true, and then was too good to be true apparently. I could still fall back on my original plan, but I'm much less inclined to do that now. Regardless, you'll probably hear from Laszlo soon since no one else seems to be doing much.
Quote from: Geronus on August 27, 2012, 09:05:57 PM
One city that could still take you a long time to siege. We could hold out indefinitely if our allies kept supporting us, a continual thorn in your side, up until you mustered enough strength to storm the city, which is protected by a Fortress. I estimate that you would need at least 30k CS to have a shot, probably more.
We can storm the city, I'm just choosing not to.
Shanandoah is a drain on the north's resources. It isn't supported by itself and requires the north to fund and feed it.
Hammarsett's nobles are useless in the war effort right now as they don't have recruitment capabilities to actually fight the war. ONE hammarsett noble participated in the attack on Menedor. One.
However, we can still execute the war effort further into Minas Ithil territory quit easily while Hammarsett sits behind its walls. This not only hurts Minas Ithil's ability to fight, but it also hurts the amount of support that can be given to Hammarsett. However, if Hammarsett ever does decide to contribute to the fighting and they lose the battle, then the war is over. Hammarsett cannot simply refit its army. In fact, I don't even need 30k CS to take your city. I can attack it twice with 20k CS and you'll have no militia and army left to defend it for a third attack.
Not to mention I could gather 40k CS or more to attack the city if I wanted to at any point.
I just don't think Hammarsett realizes how nice Coria has been in our negotiations so far. You don't have that much of a bargaining chip. Which means the offers we've given is the best you're gonna get.
Hammersett got the short end of the stick yup, I'm 100% sure of it. hmm btw did I hear Chips and Salsa? maybe I'm just hearing things.
On another note, when was the last time anyone saw magic in AT?
I think my BoM got a scroll a LONG time ago...
As for the war, I finally had a slow day of letters! Yaaaaaaay! Today reminded me how short lived those days are, though.
I only ask about magic because I can't remember many uses of it beside on BT, and those rare glimpses of it. I was thinking something more appropriate would be useful there. Like crossing into closed border realms and such, but that just my thoughts.
Quote from: Blue Star on August 28, 2012, 11:51:25 PM
I only ask about magic because I can't remember many uses of it beside on BT, and those rare glimpses of it. I was thinking something more appropriate would be useful there. Like crossing into closed border realms and such, but that just my thoughts.
At the risk of sounding like a complete fool, I believe I had a scroll of fireball. Without a target, all it did was singe my eyebrows or something silly like that. It really was a long time ago, so it's quite fuzzy. I thought it was a unique item, so I was pretty upset that I'd wasted it trying to figure out what it did.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Scrolls (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Scrolls) You probably did have a scroll of fireball since they do exist.
Quote from: Blue Star on August 28, 2012, 11:51:25 PM
I only ask about magic because I can't remember many uses of it beside on BT, and those rare glimpses of it. I was thinking something more appropriate would be useful there. Like crossing into closed border realms and such, but that just my thoughts.
You mean like a scroll that can destroy a level of walls?
But nahhh....no way I've heard of those...or have I?
Sound like good time for me to leave Minas Ithil to its death. But then again, I play my whole Ketchum family as being loyal to the end ;D
Quote from: Penchant on August 29, 2012, 12:26:45 AM
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Scrolls (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Scrolls) You probably did have a scroll of fireball since they do exist.
Holy crap! I should've documented it. What a poor fool I was.
In other news, Suville once again shows poor military skill, as they move first two-thirds of their army one day and then a half of what was remaining their to battle so they get their butts kicked.
Quote from: Penchant on August 29, 2012, 06:33:02 PM
In other news, Suville once again shows poor military skill activity level, as they move first two-thirds of their army one day and then a half of what was remaining their to battle so they get their butts kicked.
Fixed that for you.
Quote from: Darksun on August 29, 2012, 06:51:35 PM
Fixed that for you.
I apologize, you are right on that. Did you guys order the move later in the day ? Seemed like it IIRC from the scout reports.
Quote from: Penchant on August 29, 2012, 06:53:57 PM
I apologize, you are right on that. Did you guys order the move later in the day ? Seemed like it IIRC from the scout reports.
Yeah, it was a late order I believe - should have waited the extra tick.
Quote from: Darksun on August 29, 2012, 07:05:28 PM
Yeah, it was a late order I believe - should have waited the extra tick.
Yeah, if you would have waited so that you have more people leaving at once, I think you would of stopped the takeover. By sending reinforcements, basically it hurt you guys and not us, since on both realms, Caergoth and Carelia, only took a CS hit of a couple hundred each while Suville got hurt quite a bit (I didn't do the math on you guys.)
Tell that to the General :)
Quote from: Darksun on August 29, 2012, 07:14:25 PM
Tell that to the General :)
Why would I do that? He might actually listen, and we don't want that.
... Is everybody (like me) holding their breath until the treaty is actually signed and Shanandoah is actually taken?
...
I don't know why you would post that now, considering the deal isn't done yet.
Quote from: Geronus on September 03, 2012, 07:57:05 AM
...
I don't know why you would post that now, considering the deal isn't done yet.
My Consul is generally quite stupid.
General has to do ALL the work (*waves at Jean Luc*)
More importantly, the northern realms are suspiciously quiet about the fact that Suville has officially joined the fight against them. Surely they've noticed the new banners among their enemies... surely?
Well, like Sonya said: RELEASE THE KRAKEN!
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 03, 2012, 09:53:52 AM
More importantly, the northern realms are suspiciously quiet about the fact that Suville has officially joined the fight against them. Surely they've noticed the new banners among their enemies... surely?
Well, like Sonya said: RELEASE THE KRAKEN!
It's not being suspiciously quiet, it's called "hiding."
Quote from: Perth on September 03, 2012, 09:56:54 AM
It's not being suspiciously quiet, it's called "hiding."
"Maybe if we're quiet, they won't see us..."
The Order has word that Hammarsett has surrendered. :)
Quote from: Geronus on September 03, 2012, 07:57:05 AM
...
I don't know why you would post that now, considering the deal isn't done yet.
I only decided to post it because, in fact, the deal
is essentially done. King Kurohyou accepted the terms, he's just waiting for my diplomat (who has already drafted the treaty and just needs to arrive in Shanandoah.
There was a reason I did place the qualifier of the treaty actually being signed and Shanandoah actually being taken. (I won't call it guaranteed until that
does happen, but between my two Atamaran characters, they've both heard other rulers speaking of Hammarsett formally declaring surrender. Also, Hammard nobles have been moving en masse to BoM.)
"Please hold. Your diplomacy is important to us. In a few moments, a representative will be with you to take your treaty. Please stay on the line and do not venture into our dungeons."
Battlemaster should come with Jeopardy music for cases like this.
Quote from: Eirikr on September 06, 2012, 10:47:26 AM
"Please hold. Your diplomacy is important to us. In a few moments, a representative will be with you to take your treaty. Please stay on the line and do not venture into our dungeons."
Battlemaster should come with Jeopardy music for cases like this.
I'm just waiting for the Darkan army to appear in Belegmon to sack Barad Falas.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 06, 2012, 06:40:47 PM
I'm just waiting for the Darkan army to appear in Belegmon to sack Barad Falas.
Hey now, Kerwin would never let that happen.
Hey... we haven't spoken in a while, why don't we meet somewhere for coffee? Say, Anost or even Barad Lacirirth?
Quote from: Perth on September 07, 2012, 12:41:37 AM
Hey now, Kerwin would never let that happen.
Hey... we haven't spoken in a while, why don't we meet somewhere for coffee? Say, Anost or even Barad Lacirirth?
Sounds good. My allies and I have been looking for a place to let our armies have a little bit of coffee and relax for a bit. Where would you like us all to come?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 07, 2012, 03:33:03 AM
Sounds good. My allies and I have been looking for a place to let our armies have a little bit of coffee and relax for a bit. Where would you like us all to come?
Tarasac?
Quote from: Perth on September 07, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Tarasac?
I dunno, I like the Caglian Tarasac... I've heard Tara re-closed all of the nice outdoors coffee shops and kept the chains open.
Also, funniest thing that's happened to me in BM:
Letter from Saeculo Munro (2 hours, 9 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in message group "Military Council" (6 recipients)
There is a reason I declared Hatred during my Consulship a few years ago, and that is because Hammarsett cannot be trusted.
This has been proven time and time again. Indeed, this is the very reason which led to me wanting their destruction. Not until I see the Corian banner flying over Shanandoah, will I believe the end of the War has come for Hammarsett.
Saeculo Munro (Royal)
--------------------------------------------
Duchy Joins Realm (1 hour, 27 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Coria
Laszlo Geronus has changed the allegiance of Shanandoah to your realm. The duchy used to be a part of Hammarsett.
Together with the duke, the following knights joined your realm: Laszlo Geronus, Stewart Beauchamp, Asaar Anch'ti, Hagar Aryuson Sparrowhead, Einherja Blackmore, Ladislav Stublic, Fatih Kalkandelen.
Quote from: Eirikr on September 07, 2012, 06:49:17 AM
Also, funniest thing that's happened to me in BM:\
Wow your time in BM must have sucked...
Quote from: Perth on September 07, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Tarasac?
But, but, they're my allies....
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 07, 2012, 07:15:48 AM
But, but, they're my allies....
I PROMISED YOU THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 07, 2012, 07:15:48 AM
Wow your time in BM must have sucked...
Well my first character has been in the Barony all his life and, while fun, has not had access to the situations Ravendon has. On top of that, the Barony is almost always dead... a handful of guys keep it fun and spirited, but they aren't
always talking.
Otherwise, I've been in constant war and politics that was much akin to walking in a room full of eggshells and glass. Beyond Wind's 7UP thing, I haven't found myself in a position to be too whimsical.
Now, however... Muhuhahahaha
Quote from: Perth on September 07, 2012, 03:57:51 AM
Tarasac?
You all heard him! Party in Tarasac! Kerwin is bringing the booze!
Quote from: Perth on September 07, 2012, 07:35:00 AM
I PROMISED YOU THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Meh....I got rid of the last Eston King when he became useless....It can certainly happen again.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 07, 2012, 09:33:45 AM
Meh....I got rid of the last Eston King when he became useless....It can certainly happen again.
:'(
Quote from: Perth on August 19, 2012, 09:13:38 AM
I know that feel, bro.
He's a freaking enigma! I can't get a read on him! It's always just "Good day! Doop, dedoop, doo!"
This is by far the most funny comment i read this last hour (had a lot to catch up) Doop, dedoop. doo and suck my socks! hahahaha seriously +1
Sure let's meet in Tarasac. I'll wait for you and there we can talk where we will meet next. I can't promise that my men won't play with fire though.
Can I come, too?
We can meet somewhere in Minas Ithil too, I heard that Eston have sold them for greater good. Just remember to bring up some torches with you, The Northern Horde don't have enough light.
Of course. Not sure if you'll like them, though.
Quote from: Indirik on September 07, 2012, 07:21:30 PM
Of course. Not sure if you'll like them, though.
Hey, these cookies are all stabby.
Mmm cookies.
KK gonna bring 7UP? We're gonna get thirsty after all those cookies. If this comes to pass I will bring my fishing rod, it could use some practice i'm sure... wait is there water by Tarasac?
We can always make an artificial lake, by filling Merlin's ego with water. ;)
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 10, 2012, 08:52:38 AM
We can always make an artificial lake, by filling Merlin's ego with water. ;)
ZING! +1
I'll bring the napkins. Ignore the "Treaty of Shanandoah" writing on them. I thought it'd give them a classy look, I was wrong.
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 10, 2012, 08:52:38 AM
We can always make an artificial lake, by filling Merlin's ego with water. ;)
Wait a minute....At least he actually has power unlike his brother on Dwilight...
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 10, 2012, 08:52:38 AM
We can always make an artificial lake, by filling Merlin's ego with water. ;)
Hahaha, wait where would you get that much water? Are you a magician?
Can we quit now? I give up. Really. Let's just call this one finished, and move on to the next big thing.
Quote from: Indirik on September 12, 2012, 04:18:36 PM
Can we quit now? I give up. Really. Let's just call this one finished, and move on to the next big thing.
I've been saying this for months now.
Minas Ithil's implosion makes it all the more pointless.
They want MI dead. I guess this aint over until there is only one big Empire... so might take year or 2 :)
Once those armies destroying MI leave to refit, they shouldn't return. Unless Coria decides to ignore the treaty they just (sort of) signed anyway, or find a loophole in it. Either of which are plausible possibilities.
If Coria sticks to the treaty and BoM and MI don't blow it up, the war in the east will effectively end. Only the all too aptly named western front will remain. Minas Leon's secession does complicate things however.
Sounds like Minas Leon was created out desire for peace when the leadership of Minas Ithil seems to not want it. I don't see how Minas Leon could cause problems except between it and Minas Ithil.
Minas Leon isn't covered by the agreement, so as I said, it could complicate things. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
The other bad thing about this is that although this long war may wind down, the island is still incredibly polarized and the "all-in" mentality of the alliance system is so ingrained.
I find it hard to foresee any wars in the near future not essentially just erupting along the same lines again. Which... would bode poorly for the North at this point, of course.
Quote from: Perth on September 12, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
The other bad thing about this is that although this long war may wind down, the island is still incredibly polarized and the "all-in" mentality of the alliance system is so ingrained.
I find it hard to foresee any wars in the near future not essentially just erupting along the same lines again. Which... would bode poorly for the North at this point, of course.
BOOOOORRRRRRINNNGGGGG
I feel tempted just order Darkan troops home and we will play monopoly at home and wait if someone attacks us some day.
Quote from: Geronus on September 12, 2012, 06:49:08 PM
BOOOOORRRRRRINNNGGGGG
Yeah.
The worst part is everyone knows this. And agrees its boring. Everyone agrees it should be changed. Everyone agrees there need to be some shake ups. Oh well....
What's really sad is that this war was an effort to do just that. I dunno, maybe some of the players on the other side are still enjoying it, but it stopped being fun for me a long time ago. Actually, it never really was that much fun after the first month or two to be honest, I just had hopes that it would shake things up. Which it didn't, really. And now it's just going on and on and on and on...
Quote from: Geronus on September 12, 2012, 07:05:58 PM
What's really sad is that this war was an effort to do just that. I dunno, maybe some of the players on the other side are still enjoying it, but it stopped being fun for me a long time ago. Actually, it never really was that much fun after the first month or two to be honest, I just had hopes that it would shake things up. Which it didn't, really. And now it's just going on and on and on and on...
Maybe if we just let CE hegemonize the entire continent, they'll get so bored, they'll commit suicide.
Sounds good to me.
Quote
Yeah.
The worst part is everyone in the north knows this. And everyone in the north agrees its boring. Everyone in the north agrees it should be changed. Everyone in the north agrees there need to be some shake ups. Oh well....
Fixed that for you. Those of us in the south are looking forward to loot and pillage in the north for a change. The north got to loot in the south for
nearly two years. Now it's our turn.
Quote from: Indirik on September 12, 2012, 04:18:36 PM
Can we quit now? I give up. Really. Let's just call this one finished, and move on to the next big thing.
Haha. Ahahahaha. No.
Quote from: Indirik on September 12, 2012, 04:18:36 PM
Can we quit now? I give up. Really. Let's just call this one finished, and move on to the next big thing.
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 12, 2012, 08:54:59 PM
Haha. Ahahahaha. No.
lmao... just like you try to kill an epic boss (CE) and when your tank (Hammarsett) is dead and you try to run, the boss roots you (in Cantril) and keeps attacking and your friends(MI) are half-dead due to nasty AoE damage of the boss. I can understand how you feel. All the fun from game is gone :'(
Quote from: Perth on September 12, 2012, 06:47:14 PM
The other bad thing about this is that although this long war may wind down, the island is still incredibly polarized and the "all-in" mentality of the alliance system is so ingrained.
I find it hard to foresee any wars in the near future not essentially just erupting along the same lines again. Which... would bode poorly for the North at this point, of course.
So lets number the realms:
1 Eston
2 Talerium
3 Cagilan Empire
4 Darka
5 Barony of Makar
6 Tara
7 Minas Ithil
8 Carelia
9 Caergoth
10 Suville
11 Coria
12 Hammarsett
13 Strombran
14 Minas Leon
Now click the link to roll a random number between 1 and 14 and that's your new realm!
http://www.random.org/integers/?num=1&min=1&max=14&col=5&base=10&format=html&rnd=new
I rolled a 2
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 12, 2012, 08:54:59 PM
Fixed that for you. Those of us in the south are looking forward to loot and pillage in the north for a change. The north got to loot in the south for nearly two years. Now it's our turn.
Umm... what?
CE and Co. have destroyed like 3 or 4 realms consecutively in the past few years...
Ewwwww i got carelia!
Quote from: Elegant on September 12, 2012, 09:20:55 PM
lmao... just like you try to kill an epic boss (CE) and when your tank (Hammarsett) is dead and you try to run, the boss roots you (in Cantril) and keeps attacking and your friends(MI) are half-dead due to nasty AoE damage of the boss. I can understand how you feel. All the fun from game is gone :'(
Lineage?
Quote from: swholmes@gmail.com on September 12, 2012, 09:35:06 PM
Now click the link to roll a random number between 1 and 14 and that's your new realm!
http://www.random.org/integers/?num=1&min=1&max=14&col=5&base=10&format=html&rnd=new
I rolled a 2
I rolled 8 (2 times consecutively) ..so i stay on Carelia? darn it!, i always wanted to spam Darka!
Quote from: Lanyon on September 12, 2012, 09:52:58 PM
Ewwwww i got carelia!
STAY AWAY!
We have plenty of nobles already, the cakes is not for everyone!
I find this really really interesting. Mainly because of the way that some people perceive this issue.
1. I think nearly everyone agrees that Atamara is incredibly polarized. For better or worse, that is how it is. There are those that would like to change it up, but game mechanics also make that difficult. (Peasantry upset about certain alliances/wars)
2. The North for all intents and purposes has been the one with the ability to actually have fun in this war for the longest time. The Central Alliance, but especially Coria, has been the one ceaselessly looted this entire time, and constantly fighting a defensive war. We still hold less regions now than we did at the beginning of the war. Meanwhile, most of the North is largely untouched. With the exception of MI, the lands of the north are pristine, they haven't been looted, they haven't been taken over or forced rogue, they have essentially received no damage as the war has been completely offensive or deadlocked this entire time.
3. The North now sees this war as no longer fun, but frankly it has been the Central Alliance who hasn't been on the fun side for the majority of the war. Looting and taking over regions is fun. Fending off ceaseless attacks without being able to retaliate is not as fun. So while the North no longer finds it fun, there are many in the Central Alliance looking forward to getting to actually fight an aggressive war.
4. IF the Central Alliance gets to fight an aggressive war, I fully expect many IC and OOC complaints to arise about it even further than we have now. But, in a sense this attitude is highly biased. This war for the North has primarily been a pseudo fight between the Northern Alliance and CE/Tara while each used their allies as the main battlegrounds. Without any threat to either side's central strength, this war really hasn't and won't accomplish anything for either side.
5. Right now, the war is no longer in a stalemate. Quite frankly the Central Alliance is winning, and can easily push forward now and actually WIN something if they want. Now it may surprise those in the north, but the central alliance pushing further into the North is actually meant to disrupt the polar nature of Atamara, just not in the way that the North wants.
6. This war would only succeed to fulfill the North's purposes of solving the polarized nature of the continent and humbling CE if they had actually won. After the first few months, and most assuredly after the fall of Carelia and the treaty with Coria by the North, that this was no longer able to be accomplished. The best option would have been for the North to simply stop hostilities at that point, but they persisted hoping that they could break the stalemate.
7. I think many here are going about things all wrong. This is an issue that affects everyone, but it is something which each realm has to individually start to change. The "gangbang mentality" is built up since each time someone starts a war they always want to gain as many allies as possible. But if they simply only fought alone, then their opponent would have no reason to bring in all their allies. In fact, people should start to expect their allies to stand up on their own and only intervene if they are getting ganged up on and for good reasons, instead of if they are just losing.
8. I truly think the only way that this problem though is solved in the long-run is if the CE/Tara federation splits. They are too strong on their own and they are essentially untouchable due to all of their buffer realms. Only if CE and Tara are no longer considered as a single realm for military conflict can anything ever improve. The mistake the North made in combination with the south of Carelia/Suville/Caergoth, was that they sought to simply beat and destroy CE/Tara. Of course they will bring in all their allies when outnumbered as we were at the beginning. But, if the wars were simply over borders or other stuff, and not meant as "kill or be killed" the mentality would change and we'd reduce the polarity of the situation.
Everything that needed to be said has just been said more or less in a nut shell (big shell at that).
So when do we get to enjoy the cookies in the north?
My two characters are in Eston & Minas Ithil. The Eston front has been mostly a staring match across the western front with maybe one battle every month or so? In Minas Ithil, it until recently has been try to refit faster than Tara and friends and go fight in the Hammarsett/Coria area (endless repeat). BoM & Darka for their part have had annoyingly long refit times to/from the front lines.
So yeah, the war has been massively boring from my perspective. The Minas Leon thing is the only interesting thing that has occurred in Minas Ithil for a long time. If Minas Ithil survives in some form, it could even turn out to be a good thing for MI.
Yeah, I'm not sure why people think we were having fun until we started losing. Frankly, I wasn't having much fun when we were "winning" either. Truth be told, the reason I signed Hammarsett's death warrant by declaring war on everyone and their mothers was that the two months of marching half way across the island and back to loot CE that led up to it were incredibly dull. Spend a week marching somewhere for a day or two of looting and then get spanked by Tara and spend another week slogging home. Wow, what fun! I will admit that the first two months or so were a good time when we were rolling over Coria, but it has basically sucked ever since. For the last, what is it now, two years? Must be getting close to that.
Personally I'm rooting for the South at this point. I just want them to hurry up and crush everyone already.
Quote from: Geronus on September 13, 2012, 05:06:55 AM
Personally I'm rooting for the South at this point. I just want them to hurry up and crush everyone already.
The south is actually looking good. It kinga reminds me of Abington for some reason eh gotta stop living in the past
Quote from: Geronus on September 12, 2012, 05:45:22 PM
Once those armies destroying MI leave to refit, they shouldn't return. Unless Coria decides to ignore the treaty they just (sort of) signed anyway, or find a loophole in it. Either of which are plausible possibilities.
If Coria sticks to the treaty and BoM and MI don't blow it up, the war in the east will effectively end. Only the all too aptly named western front will remain. Minas Leon's secession does complicate things however.
We're good for it, but Eston's not playing nice. :(
EDIT: Also, I got 4. I don't think KK will take me in, though.
Quote from: Blue Star on September 13, 2012, 05:12:14 AM
The south is actually looking good. It kinga reminds me of Abington for some reason eh gotta stop living in the past
Ah, Abington...I loved it so...
Quote from: Perth on September 12, 2012, 09:52:03 PM
Umm... what?
CE and Co. have destroyed like 3 or 4 realms consecutively in the past few years...
We've done a fair bit of looting in the south. Now we want to loot in the north for a change.
Realms destroyed by "CE & Co": Abington, Falasan, Helmsdale, Hammarsett
Realms created (or ripped out of our enemies) by "CE & Co": Caergoth, Suville, Coria, Strombran, Helmsdale, Hammarsett, Minas Leon
Realms destroyed by the NA: Norland
Realms created by the NA: ...
In other words:
The South giveth, the South taketh away. Net number of realms in the South has increased. The North just takes. Realms either stagnate in the North, or just get absorbed into the last remaining few realms.
"CE & Co": Net realm creator
NA: Net realm destroyer
Net number of new realms created by the South:
3Net number of new realms created by the NA:
ZE-ROhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwqjk5Ppa2w&t=2m3s
Don't blame me when the NA only knows how to loot, and don't know how to follow through and actually kill realms that are not your former allies. 8)
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 13, 2012, 07:56:27 AM
We've done a fair bit of looting in the south. Now we want to loot in the north for a change.
Realms destroyed by "CE & Co": Abington, Falasan, Helmsdale, Hammarsett
Realms created (or ripped out of our enemies) by "CE & Co": Caergoth, Suville, Coria, Strombran, Helmsdale, Hammarsett, Minas Leon
Realms destroyed by the NA: Norland
Realms created by the NA: ...
In other words:
The South giveth, the South taketh away. Net number of realms in the South has increased. The North just takes. Realms either stagnate in the North, or just get absorbed into the last remaining few realms.
"CE & Co": Net realm creator
NA: Net realm destroyer
Net number of new realms created by the South: 3
Net number of new realms created by the NA: ZE-RO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwqjk5Ppa2w&t=2m3s
Don't blame me when the NA only knows how to loot, and don't know how to follow through and actually kill realms that are not your former allies. 8)
I would like to point out that CE had nothing to do with the foundation of Hammarsett. That was Coria/Tara's mistake solely.
Also, shouldn't you include creating Tara as part of CE & Co's creations?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 12, 2012, 11:39:42 PM
8. I truly think the only way that this problem though is solved in the long-run is if the CE/Tara federation splits.
Agreed. They are an unbelievable powerhouse, I would daresay the strongest in the game. Alas, they both know this so I don't see how it could ever happen really. The beginning of this war, uniting North and Far South, was the best chance we were ever going to have, and we blew it.
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 13, 2012, 07:56:27 AM
Don't blame me when the NA only knows how to loot, and don't know how to follow through and actually kill realms that are not your former allies. 8)
You do realize this is not because the North "only knows how to loot" but because the only realms we could try to destroy are under the CE Umbrella of Protection. You can't touch them without touching CE and Tara.
We can kill other Northern realms, like we did with Norland. But there is no way to kill other realms as all others literally trigger CE protection basically.
I'm not saying this is wrong, just that this is the way CE dominates the island (which works brilliantly for them) and is why the the formula you presented is the way it is. It isn't hard to kill realms and make new ones when every time you get bored you simply pick a realm to destroy and 2/3's of the continent marches to war with you to destroy them.
Quote from: Perth on September 13, 2012, 08:08:42 AM
Agreed. They are an unbelievable powerhouse, I would daresay the strongest in the game. Alas, they both know this so I don't see how it could ever happen really. The beginning of this war, uniting North and Far South, was the best chance we were ever going to have, and we blew it.
I still stand by the fact that by uniting the North and the Far South, that you ensured your disaster. It was no guaranteed matter, but long-term that alliance would be impossible to maintain. The politics involved were just too untenable and the benefits gained just could not work.
Now, you WOULD have had success if Darka was convinced to invade Talerium from the beginning, and the Far South invaded both Tara and CE from the beginning.
Had you achieved a TRUE rock solid alliance between north and far south, then you would have won the war no matter what. However, it was not a secured alliance under a single vision. If it was, then nothing else would have stopped you.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 13, 2012, 08:15:52 AM
I still stand by the fact that by uniting the North and the Far South, that you ensured your disaster. It was no guaranteed matter, but long-term that alliance would be impossible to maintain. The politics involved were just too untenable and the benefits gained just could not work.
Now, you WOULD have had success if Darka was convinced to invade Talerium from the beginning, and the Far South invaded both Tara and CE from the beginning.
Had you achieved a TRUE rock solid alliance between north and far south, then you would have won the war no matter what. However, it was not a secured alliance under a single vision. If it was, then nothing else would have stopped you.
Oh, absolutely. That is what I mean: a strong alliance between North and Far South was our best chance ever. The beginning of the war was the closest anyone will ever get to that for a long, long time now I think. We failed for several, basically glaring reasons. All I am saying is that the potential was certainly there, but failed to be capitalized upon.
Perhaps people will learn and maybe 3-5 years down the line if things line up again properly the North and Far South will be able to give it another go and learn from the mistakes of the first time around.
That is, if CE doesn't complete it's cookie cutter "destroy and replace with puppet" domination of the entire island first. Which would be impressive. Pax Cagilania!
Thought I should throw out my prediction that Tara/Coria will end up regretting supporting Minas Leon (should it survive the next few weeks without any rurals).
Quote from: Sypher on September 13, 2012, 08:44:28 AM
Thought I should throw out my prediction that Tara/Coria will end up regretting supporting Minas Leon (should it survive the next few weeks without any rurals).
I would like to point out that seeing as Hammarsett survived seemingly months without rurals....well I think its possible. (Also with a full contingent of militia in the city at the time)
If they're smart about not pissing anyone off and buying food, they can certainly survive under the new systems. That is, if they have the gold. I'm pretty sure a single-duchy realm can stay alive as long as they don't have an army knocking on their door every week.
I fully predict we're shooting ourselves in the foot by supporting Minas Leon, but that's what makes the game fun.
I've been trying to make moves to change things up in Coria, but I'm also careful not to get burnt doing it. There's been some success as far as expansion at least. The board's almost ready for the next guy.
To be honest, I switched sides after my 3 year vacation from BM and I am disappointed that's all NA and SA could muster. I was secretly rooting for them to come toe to toe and possibly push CE and Tara back a bit. CE&Tara were never going to be destroyed of course, but to fight against the NA for a change after 6 previously years being their really shows you the other side.
Abington = Suville in disguise
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 13, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
I would like to point out that seeing as Hammarsett survived seemingly months without rurals....well I think its possible. (Also with a full contingent of militia in the city at the time)
Yes definitely, as long as they can get someone to sell them several hundred bushels of food every week (thank you Eston). If Eston's not willing to prop them up though, and Coria can't funnel food to them, they're screwed. I know BoM has no surplus to speak of, and I doubt what's left of MI does either, or that they'd be willing to prop up a realm that seceded from them.
Seeing as Coria's not even feeding Shanandoah at the moment I doubt they've got the wherewithal to get food up to Leohampton, so my guess is that they're screwed.
Better question than that, why would we get food to Leohampton? Because we're willing to be nice doesn't mean we're willing to treat them like our kid.
You all might as well forget about Leohampton, they will not last long. once the war is over the first thing MI and friends will do will be put order in that Duchy.
Is not like is a Tara's colony, so it will not have support from the Southern side, even if they try to be nice wipsy with everyone, it doesn't stop being a rogue Duchy.
History has proven that no one support rebellious secession on Atamara.
peace!
Which one of MI's "allies" do you think will be happy to help MI at this point? I can't really think of any.
Quote from: Indirik on September 13, 2012, 09:25:55 PM
Which one of MI's "allies" do you think will be happy to help MI at this point? I can't really think of any.
Makar.
Ya think? You must know a different side of the Barony than I do...
Quote from: Indirik on September 14, 2012, 03:40:25 AM
Ya think? You must know a different side of the Barony than I do...
The pretty side :)
EDIT: it is small and difficult to locate. Best found when in the process of killing Norlanders together.
He's right. Sordnaz keeps his word.
Though I hate it, because BOTH of my characters remember when Minas Ithil was the Barony's most hated enemy. Coria's hatred for Hammarsett looked like a playground grudge compared to that.
Quote from: Eirikr on September 14, 2012, 08:11:17 AM
Though I hate it, because BOTH of my characters remember when Minas Ithil was the Barony's most hated enemy. Coria's hatred for Hammarsett looked like a playground grudge compared to that.
I know, it's weird.
Remember when we offered Sordnaz the duchy of York on a silver platter and he was all like "Nah, no thanks. I like the Ithilians."
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3udxjH5Yl1r2c05t.gif)
Quote from: Indirik on September 14, 2012, 03:40:25 AM
Ya think? You must know a different side of the Barony than I do...
Well Perth believes Coria has a pretty side!!!Go figure! :PPPPP haha
Quote from: Perth on September 14, 2012, 11:15:40 AM
I know, it's weird.
Remember when we offered Sordnaz the duchy of York on a silver platter and he was all like "Nah, no thanks. I like the Ithilians."
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3udxjH5Yl1r2c05t.gif)
Bahahahaha the picture got me.
Hey, Coria's got a good side... OF THE LAKE! ZING!
The times, they are a-channnnnnging!
Quote from: Eirikr on September 14, 2012, 08:11:17 AM
He's right. Sordnaz keeps his word.
Though I hate it, because BOTH of my characters remember when Minas Ithil was the Barony's most hated enemy. Coria's hatred for Hammarsett looked like a playground grudge compared to that.
Of course. Say what you will about the Lich King. He takes good care of his
dogs.
Quote from: GoldPanda on September 18, 2012, 08:44:40 PM
Of course. Say what you will about the Lich King. He takes good care of his dogs.
The Nekrogoblikon?
Quote from: DamnTaffer on September 18, 2012, 10:04:39 PM
The Nekrogoblikon?
Thank you for this. Best thing since... Jens, was it? The Namtrah family... A laugh a day!
Quote from: Eirikr on September 18, 2012, 10:30:33 PM
Thank you for this. Best thing since... Jens, was it? The Namtrah family... A laugh a day!
I can't remember, we're we laughing with him or at him?
Usually at him.
Er, Minas Ithil is dead? And what is this Minas Leon created from one MI duchy? Watching MI fighting its own duchy(ML) is making me feeling butterfly in my stomach ::)
Dead? Not quite. It can be if it so chooses, though. Pretty close to it.
Hmm, lots of silence on this board. Either we're all way too bored of this war or something big and nasty is about to happen.
Maybe busy playing Were Wolf Games.....
Quote from: Azerax on September 28, 2012, 01:17:40 AM
Hmm, lots of silence on this board. Either we're all way too bored of this war or something big and nasty is about to happen.
Both.
So far I am liking all the change as so far it's been beneficial to me.
I just thought the topic had gotten too long... But had nothing better to discuss.
Honestly, the war's pretty much wrapped up... Or at least the biggest of the wars... We've still got Suville and Carelia going at it (much to my chagrin), Minas Leon's in danger (surprise) and Cantril's still hosting the Staring Olypmics.
Quote from: Eirikr on September 28, 2012, 04:47:49 AM
I just thought the topic had gotten too long... But had nothing better to discuss.
Honestly, the war's pretty much wrapped up... Or at least the biggest of the wars... We've still got Suville and Carelia going at it (much to my chagrin), Minas Leon's in danger (surprise) and Cantril's still hosting the Staring Olypmics.
there is a decent chance Suville vs Carelia will be over soon.
At some point Cantril could theoretically stop being a staring contest, but I don't know if that will happen or not. Guess it depends on how the politics are playing out.
Quote from: Penchant on September 28, 2012, 05:02:06 AM
there is a decent chance Suville vs Carelia will be over soon.
Don't you mean the CE vs Tara conflict?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on September 28, 2012, 10:16:48 PM
Don't you mean the CE vs Tara conflict?
CE and Tara should actually fight a war; pulling allies to either side. It would be epic. It would be the greatest thing to happen to Atamara in forever. It's such a good idea.
Quote from: Perth on September 28, 2012, 10:59:44 PM
CE and Tara should actually fight a war; pulling allies to either side. It would be epic. It would be the greatest thing to happen to Atamara in forever. It's such a good idea.
I see that as possible but something that will take a lot of hard work and dedication by more than one person.
Quote from: Penchant on September 28, 2012, 11:01:39 PM
I see that as possible but something that will take a lot of hard work and dedication by more than one person.
We've already seen how one person can't make that one work. (A lot of people have tried individually over time I'm sure)
But seriously, if people didn't realize yet that the Carelia Suville conflict was just a pseudo Tara CE conflict....you obviously aren't paying enough attention to them scheming politicians. (Or maybe I just get too many msgs)
Well, Cantril will change if Minas Leon gets dealt with quickly. Especially if the thing down South escalates.
I'll admit to trying to pull the strings to make the CE v Tara war happen... Got so close and yet so far...
Not that it'd actually be good for Coria in my long-term opinion. Even just trying has put me in a complicated place.
CE should just conquer AT first then fight with their allies ;)
/me scouts Cantril
"My, what large ... 'units' ... you have."
If Ce declares war to Tara that would mean that Coria will perish for sure.I haven't made my decission which side and what path I will choose. Currently I have way too many options.
Quote from: Zadar on October 01, 2012, 09:28:11 PM
If Ce declares war to Tara that would mean that Coria will perish for sure.I haven't made my decission which side and what path I will choose. Currently I have way too many options.
This seems a curious statement to make without anything to back it up.
I fail to see how a war between CE and Tara would even involve Coria at all, let alone lead to its destruction.
CE and Tara fighting that would be a day.
What would be more interesting would be Eston sacking Darka for taking it duchy.
I wonder how many real friends Coria have? Currently I can't find any who really trust them.
Quote from: Blue Star on October 02, 2012, 02:13:05 AM
CE and Tara fighting that would be a day.
What would be more interesting would be Eston sacking Darka for taking it duchy.
It would remotely be a possibility if the North wasn't paranoid of utter destruction at the hands of
the entire southern 2/3's of the island. :'(
You'd have to give back that duchy we gave you.
Quote from: Zadar on October 02, 2012, 02:34:24 AM
I wonder how many real friends Coria have? Currently I can't find any who really trust them.
That will happen when you offer to turn on an ally in the middle of the war.
Quote from: Zadar on October 02, 2012, 02:34:24 AM
I wonder how many real friends Coria have? Currently I can't find any who really trust them.
My plan is working perfectly then. If no one knows who our friends are, then we can surprise them.
Quote from: Zadar on October 02, 2012, 02:34:24 AM
I wonder how many real friends Coria have? Currently I can't find any who really trust them.
I dunno, I've been trying pretty hard to encourage people to put a bounty on my head... Every time I check the bounty board, I'm mildly upset.
Wishes do come true once in awhile I suppose, but not as often as we'd like. The bounty board is somewhat dull as of late is it not. A new target would be good to aim for. I'm sure the North or the South infil need a new target that will get them in trouble.
mmm I could use some 7UP
Quote from: Eirikr on October 02, 2012, 07:21:02 AM
I dunno, I've been trying pretty hard to encourage people to put a bounty on my head... Every time I check the bounty board, I'm mildly upset.
No one from Coria has a bounty on their head? Not even Merlin?
Cmon...! He's not THAT bad of a general. Just because I spend more time in politics with foreign realms and plotting to do crazy things doesn't mean I'm not worth a bounty on my head.
I know Darka has like 15k siting around. Their Dukes can have a competition to see who they can get assassinated first.
Hoh, like we would use our precious gold like that? There is reason why Darka has so much gold... we dont spend it carelessly :)
Quote from: jaune on October 02, 2012, 09:03:35 AM
Hoh, like we would use our precious gold like that? There is reason why Darka has so much gold... we dont spend it carelessly at all :)
There fixed that for you.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 02, 2012, 07:21:02 AM
I dunno, I've been trying pretty hard to encourage people to put a bounty on my head... Every time I check the bounty board, I'm mildly upset.
isn't a 50 gold bounty already cool?
Quote from: Eirikr on October 02, 2012, 07:21:02 AM
I dunno, I've been trying pretty hard to encourage people to put a bounty on my head... Every time I check the bounty board, I'm mildly upset.
Bounties are mostly a waste of time and gold. You get people with 1500 gold bounties staying there for months if not years. Even if they get stabbed and seriously wounded it's unlikely they would even lose their position.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 02, 2012, 09:50:11 PM
There fixed that for you.
Pff. Recently I've been spending about 1k per week on RCs in Darka. We prefer to spend gold on things that matter and even then it just doesn't make a dent in what we have :)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 02, 2012, 08:54:10 AM
I know Darka has like 15k siting around. Their Dukes can have a competition to see who they can get assassinated first.
Pft. Abington had that much sitting around on a regular basis. On a week's notice the Banker (who was also the Duchess of Suville, which helped) could pull together that much again for a major product.
Darka, I am fairly certain, has at
least six figures, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had seven, hoarded up.
Quote from: jaune on October 02, 2012, 09:03:35 AM
Hoh, like we would use our precious gold like that? There is reason why Darka has so much gold... we dont spend it carelessly :)
Your word put smile on my face. Seems I chose the right realm to change realm to :P
Quote from: Sonya on October 02, 2012, 10:09:11 PM
isn't a 50 gold bounty already cool?
I have one? I've never seen it up there... Unless you can't see your own (you can't collect it, so why would it matter, I guess)?
I dunno, if I had an infil on Atamara, I'd totally go for bounties. It's always fun to bother someone even if it's just light... Plus, most of those guys with big bounties are pretty old now; a serious wound would put them under for a while (a fact I know on both my characters now). Then again, most of those high-placed bounties are there because they're hard to collect.
But i am sure (almost i can swear it) that most bounties are put for the nobles themselves.
It seems that a Bounty is the way to show off your Ego.
Peace!
Sitting in Nazamroth, staring into Cantril...
"Red Rover, Red Rover, we call CE and Tara over!"
O.o Tara v.s CE? That would be epic for sure! Better start saving up gold for that one...
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 08, 2012, 04:19:58 PM
O.o Tara v.s CE? That would be epic for sure! Better start saving up gold for that one...
You know nothing.
Quote from: Perth on October 08, 2012, 06:52:37 PM
You know nothing.
I see what you did there, said the blind man.
In other news, Minas Leon is hosting about half of Tara's army potential. Didn't realize they were so important.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 08, 2012, 09:58:49 PM
In other news, Minas Leon is hosting about half of Tara's army potential. Didn't realize they were so important.
Nor did I realize you were allowing them passage to do so....
Quote from: Perth on October 09, 2012, 04:50:00 AM
Nor did I realize you were allowing them passage to do so....
Minas Leon isn't covered by any treaty. Tara can operate only in a defensive capacity. Unless, of course, Ottar wants to attack and make many things very complicated for both himself and I.
EDIT: I mean, if I said no just because of the proximity to MI, it'd be like saying Tara can't go through Coria to reach the CE because it's too close to Eston.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 09, 2012, 07:01:27 AM
EDIT: I mean, if I said no just because of the proximity to MI, it'd be like saying Tara can't go through Coria to reach the CE because it's too close to Eston.
I don't see the problem there. ;D
Quote from: Perth on October 08, 2012, 06:52:37 PM
You know nothing.
Well I can't argue that for sure! ;D
Quote from: Perth on October 09, 2012, 10:40:34 AM
I don't see the problem there. ;D
I knew ya wouldn't. ;)
Quote from: Eirikr on October 09, 2012, 10:24:53 PM
I knew ya wouldn't. ;)
Wait a second...what's going on here between you two. Perth are you cheating on me?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 10, 2012, 01:16:56 AM
Wait a second...what's going on here between you two. Perth are you cheating on me?
We never even talk to me anymore! You're so absent! A man has needs!
Quote from: Perth on October 10, 2012, 01:19:29 AM
We never even talk to me anymore! You're so absent! A man has needs!
Peace is boring....Makes it hard to plot.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 10, 2012, 01:20:05 AM
Peace is boring....Makes it hard to plot.
Hmph, that's not what Eirikr whispers to me...
Quote from: Perth on October 10, 2012, 01:39:05 AM
Hmph, that's not what Eirikr whispers to me...
I think Merlin's just getting old and isn't plotting like he used to... :P
Quote from: Eirikr on October 10, 2012, 02:06:46 AM
I think Merlin's just getting old and isn't plotting like he used to... :P
Or his player simply doesn't have the time to deal with it.
What is this? Days of our Lives?
Quote from: Uzamaki on October 10, 2012, 04:26:41 PM
What is this? Days of our Lives?
Days of our Wars, but close.
Coria is still in the war?
ML is making progress
All quiet on the Western front.
Quote from: Blue Star on October 10, 2012, 10:54:57 PM
Coria is still in the war?
ML is making progress
All quiet on the Western front.
Well, technically. With Darka... But our allies are still at war. It'd be callous to say: 'Hey guys, we're done here. Good luck and all that, we'll see ya in a few months.' We have to at least try to support them. :)
Quote from: Eirikr on October 10, 2012, 11:25:16 PM
Well, technically. With Darka... But our allies are still at war. It'd be callous to say: 'Hey guys, we're done here. Good luck and all that, we'll see ya in a few months.' We have to at least try to support them. :)
That explains it then. Jaune (Kosunen) and I were wondering why you wouldn't talk peace with Darka.
Quote from: Blue Star on October 10, 2012, 10:54:57 PM
Coria is still in the war?
ML is making progress
All quiet on the Western front.
Now that Tara is out of the picture, MI can actually get back to fighting ML. I'll squash De la Fere's little rebellion!
Speaking 100% OOC as I always try to do on the forums, the state of war really is superficial... Coria has absolutely no way to navigate the mess of treaties (without breaking one) to go fight a new war. That's completely fine with us for now, until we take over the realm-sized clump of rogue regions now sitting on our doorstep. Quite honestly, I almost went to the diplomacy page to sign peace with KK as soon as I got his letter (was kinda waiting for it)... Then I realized how that wouldn't really make sense symbolically.
Wait, what do you mean Tara is out of the picture? There's still like 15k CS of Tara around Leohampton. (Which, I might add, is just barely over the size of the force that was typically helping Coria. I'm wondering where they squeezed out that extra 2-3k CS when we heard a lot of excuses during the actual war.)
Quote from: Eirikr on October 11, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Wait, what do you mean Tara is out of the picture? There's still like 15k CS of Tara around Leohampton. (Which, I might add, is just barely over the size of the force that was typically helping Coria. I'm wondering where they squeezed out that extra 2-3k CS when we heard a lot of excuses during the actual war.)
Quite simply: Coria wasn't worth the extra effort. Carelia is, and Minas Leon is.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 11, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Speaking 100% OOC as I always try to do on the forums, the state of war really is superficial... Coria has absolutely no way to navigate the mess of treaties (without breaking one) to go fight a new war. That's completely fine with us for now, until we take over the realm-sized clump of rogue regions now sitting on our doorstep. Quite honestly, I almost went to the diplomacy page to sign peace with KK as soon as I got his letter (was kinda waiting for it)... Then I realized how that wouldn't really make sense symbolically.
Well, this reply surprises me a bit, since you still signed treaty with Eston while they were at war with CE & Talerium and same with MI.
anyway, gotta see how this will evolve.
-Jaune
Quote from: Eirikr on October 11, 2012, 10:21:21 AM
Wait, what do you mean Tara is out of the picture?
With the Treaty of Shannondoah in effect, Tara is not allowed to use Corian lands to fight MI correct?
Quote from: jaune on October 11, 2012, 12:26:08 PM
Well, this reply surprises me a bit, since you still signed treaty with Eston while they were at war with CE & Talerium and same with MI.
anyway, gotta see how this will evolve.
-Jaune
That was a long time ago and the new treaty is a refresher. The original treaty came about because we lost against Eston, but they spared us. Since then, we've had only good relations with them. Think of it like Darka's treaty with Talerium... It's VERY similar.
Quote from: Jimgerdes on October 11, 2012, 06:15:11 PM
With the Treaty of Shannondoah in effect, Tara is not allowed to use Corian lands to fight MI correct?
Correct... Except that Minas Leon is not covered by
any treaty right now. Tara's free to visit them all they want, unless Coria is now preventing their allies from visiting allies' allies through our lands as well. Haven't you seen the scout reports of Leohampton? It's true they cannot go on the offensive, though.
QuoteTara's free to visit them all they want, unless Coria is now preventing their allies from visiting allies' allies through our lands as well.
\
:o Awesome way to put it. And yeah, I held in Leohampton too, along with about 15k Tara CS, with only about 3K CS of MI right next door, but we couldn't attack them. We're only allowed to defend.
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 12, 2012, 10:37:12 AM
\
:o Awesome way to put it. And yeah, I held in Leohampton too, along with about 15k Tara CS, with only about 3K CS of MI right next door, but we couldn't attack them. We're only allowed to defend.
There's a reason I've got a ruler. ;) It also helps having a degree in Professional Writing, even if I picked it up as an accessory to my degree in Aerospace Engineering.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 13, 2012, 02:11:58 AM
There's a reason I've got a ruler. ;) It also helps having a degree in Professional Writing, even if I picked it up as an accessory to my degree in Aerospace Engineering.
Whoa, that is AWESOME! Writing and Engineering... I always wanted to be an astronaut, since I was a little kid. I still do want to. If I manage to become one, think you could build me a shuttle? ???
Sounds good, just need to get a job first. ;) Still just a fresh graduate.
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 12, 2012, 10:37:12 AM
\
:o Awesome way to put it. And yeah, I held in Leohampton too, along with about 15k Tara CS, with only about 3K CS of MI right next door, but we couldn't attack them. We're only allowed to defend.
Staring match eh? To see who broke down first... Now all we need is some rogue element, and the firewood will be lighted with a cigarette 8)
Quote from: Ketchum on October 14, 2012, 02:52:39 PM
Staring match eh? To see who broke down first... Now all we need is some rogue element, and the firewood will be lighted with a cigarette 8)
I'd be willing to be this cigarette ;)
QuoteSounds good, just need to get a job first. ;) Still just a fresh graduate.
Good, it'll take me a while to get to astronaut :P I'm 16. So I can wait ;D
ABOUT TIME!!!!
QuoteHuge Battle Fought
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Nazia:
Eston vs. Cagilan Empire
Estimated strengths: 830 men vs. 680 men
Attacker Victory!
Huge Battle Fought
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Leohampton:
Barony of Makar vs. Minas Leon, Tara
Estimated strengths: 810 men vs. 1430 men
Defender Victory!
The thread was turning to something weird.... at least we have something to talk about again.
Quote from: Sonya on October 16, 2012, 07:46:41 PM
ABOUT TIME!!!!
The thread was turning to something weird.... at least we have something to talk about again.
Eston wins a meaningless battle, and BoM fails again.
Back to stagnation station.
More meaningful if either side won both battles.
It's nice to knock the dust off the armor once every 6 weeks or so. Back to staring across Nazamroth I guess.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on October 16, 2012, 07:48:29 PM
Eston wins a meaningless battle, and BoM fails again.
Back to stagnation station.
More meaningful if either side won both battles.
Well... The Barony
should have, but
MI betrayed us once again I suck at reading orders...
I should have expected it... Same old, same old.At least it makes great news for the Facebook page! :D
Quote from: Eirikr on October 16, 2012, 09:47:45 PM
Well... The Barony should have, but MI betrayed us once again I suck at reading orders... I should have expected it... Same old, same old.
At least it makes great news for the Facebook page! :D
coughjumpedtheguncough
Quote from: Stabbity on October 16, 2012, 11:14:04 PM
coughjumpedtheguncough
Jumped in front of the gun, I might add.
Nevertheless, it is good to see the Barony doing something substantial.
Quote from: Perth on October 17, 2012, 02:09:33 AM
Nevertheless, it is good to see the Barony doing something substantial.
Something? We basically bounced off the walls and both my characters got wounded >.>
Quote from: Stabbity on October 16, 2012, 11:14:04 PM
coughjumpedtheguncough
Cough Your army is too busy coughing too fight because your all sissies and you caught flu marching then refused to battle cough
Quote from: DamnTaffer on October 17, 2012, 02:33:58 AM
Something? We basically bounced off the walls and both my characters got wounded >.>
We showed how strong we are, though. As stupid as the move was, if they aren't afraid of our combined might now, they're signing their own death warrants. We're also going to likely keep Tara off the Western front in any real measure if they really want to protect Minas Leon.
Of course... that means we won't be going down to the staring match... Can't say I'm really too upset. Our refit times would be very long anyway.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 17, 2012, 03:49:40 AM
We showed how strong we are, though. As stupid as the move was, if they aren't afraid of our combined might now, they're signing their own death warrants. We're also going to likely keep Tara off the Western front in any real measure if they really want to protect Minas Leon.
Of course... that means we won't be going down to the staring match... Can't say I'm really too upset. Our refit times would be very long anyway.
I was very confused by your talking from this perspective for a few moments...
Quote from: Perth on October 17, 2012, 04:15:13 AM
I was very confused by your talking from this perspective for a few moments...
Yeah, before I was a political thorn in the side, I was a military leader of the North. :P
Actually, my BoM Marshal is my first, less talkative and less successful character... But the flavor of BoM makes me enjoy him more. There's something nice about being able to just ignore everything else but the wild tales of Viking lore and the fighting. The military aspect is what has really kept me in the game. I didn't actually know what to do when it looked like Ravendon should start staying at home. The lack of assassination attempts have eased my mind, though.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 17, 2012, 08:05:15 AM
The lack of assassination attempts have eased my mind, though.
I am sure I can find a way to ramp them up again if you're missing them. ;)
My character's unit was set to act aggressively :P He left the walls and went charging towards the foe... All alone :-[ But the battle was pretty fun though! Thanks BoM.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 16, 2012, 09:47:45 PM
Well... The Barony should have, but MI betrayed us once again I suck at reading orders... I should have expected it... Same old, same old.
At least it makes great news for the Facebook page! :D
Yeah that bit was actually pretty fun ;D BoM really did seem in a hurry. They hit the battle field while MI was still deep in it's cups...
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 17, 2012, 06:19:37 PM
Yeah that bit was actually pretty fun ;D BoM really did seem in a hurry. They hit the battle field while MI was still deep in it's cups...
The problem is that when Vikings hear an order to attack, they go into a frenzy and stop listening after the word attack, even though the order was "attack tomorrow".
That just means Ithilians talk too much. The sentence should have ended with "attack!"
Quote from: ^ban^ on October 18, 2012, 05:50:42 AM
That just means Ithilians talk too much. The sentence should have ended with "attack!"
The sentence should have just been "Attack!"
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 17, 2012, 06:19:37 PM
Yeah that bit was actually pretty fun ;D BoM really did seem in a hurry. They hit the battle field while MI was still deep in it's cups...
Minas Ithil was all set to begin moving and looked over to the Makarian camps to find they had run ahead and charged Leo.
That means Makarians are masters of stealth. When they were moving with huge siege engines, banners and other stuff, then the nearby camped Ithilians could not notice them.
Quote from: Elegant on October 18, 2012, 07:59:55 PM
That means Makarians are masters of stealth. When they were moving with huge siege engines, banners and other stuff, then the nearby camped Ithilians could not notice them.
More likely the Ithilians are blind and deaf...
Quote from: Perth on October 17, 2012, 08:22:42 AM
I am sure I can find a way to ramp them up again if you're missing them. ;)
I could use a few more people to entertain my High Magistrate. Send the Darkan ones, though, we want more 7UP.
Quote from: Elegant on October 18, 2012, 07:59:55 PM
That means Makarians are masters of stealth. When they were moving with huge siege engines, banners and other stuff, then the nearby camped Ithilians could not notice them.
It was confused for normal viking noise pollution. Don't get me started on the smell ;)
Quote from: Stabbity on October 19, 2012, 10:51:25 AM
It was confused for normal viking noise pollution. Don't get me started on the smell ;)
Masters of stealth. We're so "obvious" that you can't be absolutely sure where we are... The smell can be detected from a full region away, making it hard to pinpoint exactly where the Horde is.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 19, 2012, 10:48:10 PM
Masters of stealth. We're so "obvious" that you can't be absolutely sure where we are... The smell can be detected from a full region away, making it hard to pinpoint exactly where the Horde is.
A part of me doesn't want to credit Vikings with being covertly overt. Raziel still carries a grudge.
Quote from: Stabbity on October 20, 2012, 04:00:46 AM
A part of me doesn't want to credit Vikings with being covertly overt. Raziel still carries a grudge.
So does the entire Barony... When I thought it was your fault for not joining us, not a single soul had any sympathy for MI... Even after I corrected it and said it was my fault, they all just found more creative ways to pin it on MI. :P
Quote from: Eirikr on October 20, 2012, 04:28:43 AM
So does the entire Barony... When I thought it was your fault for not joining us, not a single soul had any sympathy for MI... Even after I corrected it and said it was my fault, they all just found more creative ways to pin it on MI. :P
Such as? How'd they still pin it on MI if you told them that you read the orders wrong?
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 20, 2012, 07:27:41 AM
Such as? How'd they still pin it on MI if you told them that you read the orders wrong?
Orders were sent like 3 hours before turn change ..to not attack
Quote from: Jon Snow on October 20, 2012, 07:27:41 AM
Such as? How'd they still pin it on MI if you told them that you read the orders wrong?
Those are country secrets! :P
Mostly saying MI was just being too slow/soft/not Viking.
Quote from: Eirikr on October 21, 2012, 06:12:12 AM
Those are country secrets! :P
Mostly saying MI was just being too slow/soft/not Viking.
Being not viking is how we won the Viking/MI wars :p.
Quote from: Stabbity on October 21, 2012, 06:55:10 AM
Being not viking is how we won the Viking/MI wars :p.
You know, quite honestly, I have no idea how the whole thing ended. I remember going out every week to attack Mansbridge, etc. and then suddenly, one week, we were allies and marching south. As such, I also have no idea who actually won. The borders stayed the same, if I remember.
Ravendon even continued to hold his Viking grudge against MI, thinking we'd soon be fighting them again and got banned when he got caught burning grain in MI. (If I remember right, he actually met Raziel III in a Norland prison before that. Ravendon was a priest at the time, got angry at the jail conversations and decided to become an infil for the Horgr.) Funny how it all worked out... After the bans from BoM and MI, he completely randomly chose Coria and now he's already had the opportunity to push around MI on a rather macro level.
I need to write up the story and put it in one place some day... More trivia: Did you know Ravendon started in Tara?
Quote from: Eirikr on October 21, 2012, 07:09:54 AM
You know, quite honestly, I have no idea how the whole thing ended. I remember going out every week to attack Mansbridge, etc. and then suddenly, one week, we were allies and marching south. As such, I also have no idea who actually won. The borders stayed the same, if I remember.
(snip)
That war was more of a draw and was just the most recent of the conflicts between BoM (&Norland) & MI which seem to boil down to us not being viking and/or wanting York. Sordnaz was trying to sign peace from the time my character (Relkin) was crowned King. Soon after the war's start, the previous King died/auto-paused and I was the General so easy to convince people to crown me King.
Soon after we agreed to peace, Hammarsett invited us into its plan to destroy CE.
Objection! We never wanted York! We just wanted to loot York!
Quote from: ^ban^ on October 22, 2012, 02:14:04 PM
Objection! We never wanted York! We just wanted to loot York!
Objection! We just wanted to loot.
QuotePublic Execution (5 minutes ago)
Messengers bring news of a public execution in Cagil earlier today.
Zaknafien, a noble of Eston, had been banned from Cagilan Empire as a traitor on 2012-10-16. When he was later imprisoned, the judge of Cagilan Empire decided to make him pay for his treason.
Background info on this family.
[protest options]
Mr Cat, 'meat' Mr Pigeon, in plural.
Quote from: ^ban^ on October 22, 2012, 02:14:04 PM
Objection! We never wanted York! We just wanted to loot York!
Right, sorry. That was Norland not the Barony I guess. After Norland was destroyed then I think it was Eston who took some of them in that wanted to make a glorious new Norland in York.
Quote from: Sypher on October 23, 2012, 09:17:27 AM
Right, sorry. That was Norland not the Barony I guess. After Norland was destroyed then I think it was Eston who took some of them in that wanted to make a glorious new Norland in York.
You mean after Tara said that because they wanted the 8 or 10 active nobles they provided, followed by Carelia.
On which Note, Mick The Slasher has returned to the North and he was one of the last norlanders...
Quote from: DamnTaffer on October 23, 2012, 06:45:22 PM
You mean after Tara said that because they wanted the 8 or 10 active nobles they provided, followed by Carelia.
On which Note, Mick The Slasher has returned to the North and he was one of the last norlanders...
Nope we didn't want them, we just gave em an option .
Hi everyone...... i was just passing by and decide to put this here. ::)
Battle in Cantril (2 days, 8 hours ago)
Barony of Makar, Eston vs. Cagilan Empire, Talerium
Estimated strengths: 1330 men vs. 1670 men
Attacker Victory!
Now if you excuse me i will be behind that wall over there..just for precaution.
Peace!
Quote from: Sonya on November 13, 2012, 02:16:41 PM
Hi everyone...... i was just passing by and decide to put this here. ::)
Battle in Cantril (2 days, 8 hours ago)
Barony of Makar, Eston vs. Cagilan Empire, Talerium
Estimated strengths: 1330 men vs. 1670 men
Attacker Victory!
Now if you excuse me i will be behind that wall over there..just for precaution.
Peace!
I think we were ordered to not loot Talerium... Or kill Taleriumites or something... But I never pay attention to that bit anyway...
The Northern Alliance is like a Big Nut cracking and trembling under the pressure of the CE alliance.
Quote from: Perth on November 13, 2012, 11:38:22 PM
The Northern Alliance is like a Big Nut cracking and trembling under the pressure of the CE alliance.
Nope, pretty sure that's just Sordnaz getting fat in his northern palace and sitting on the rest of the Northern Alliance
Quote from: Perth on November 13, 2012, 11:38:22 PM
The Northern Alliance is like a Big Nut cracking and trembling under the pressure of the CE alliance.
nah, the CE alliance has nothing to do with it, the NA just finds it a much shorter march to fight their own
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on November 14, 2012, 12:01:36 AM
Nope, pretty sure that's just Sordnaz getting fat in his northern palace and sitting on the rest of the Northern Alliance
Sordnaz is fairly dedicated to the barony getting all up in CE's !@#$ I don't think we need to worry about that. In other news, being Makarian Rocks.
"The people of Lamoni are now starting to hate your realm."
That was one hell of a battle, 45K CS vs 38K CS!
Don't know if it can be viewed: http://www.battlemaster.org/ShowScribeNote.php?ID=894051&Hash=f092f741c0859eb2
It has been years since i saw such a Huge battle!
Quote from: Azerax on November 16, 2012, 06:58:29 PM
That was one hell of a battle, 45K CS vs 38K CS!
Don't know if it can be viewed: http://www.battlemaster.org/ShowScribeNote.php?ID=894051&Hash=f092f741c0859eb2
It can but you have to be logged on Atamara.
-----
Note1:
What did these Special forces do? did they have some "Delete Cavalry Charge" Button?
Note2:
No to bash and face palm here but.....bad settings for Attackers...
Quote from: Sonya on November 16, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
Note1:
What did these Special forces? did they had some "Delete Cavalry Charge" Button?
Mrh? The attacking cavalry charged first round. 9 of the attacking cav units got a charge. 7 of them got wiped out that round, and the other two heavily mauled.
All my poor horsies are dead on the field, and I am sitting in a cell... something went wrong here... :D
Pwnd!
Oh, but these past few battles have been awesome! Even though I lost both, they still rocked ;D
We need more battles... lets all refit and do it again!!
Quote from: Sonya on November 16, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
Note2:
No to bash and face palm here but.....bad settings for Attackers...
List of captured nobles:
CE
Sir Enri Kinsey, General of Cagilan Empire, Knight of Ravening was captured by Kolm Jacobite Morlork's unit.
Tara
Chloe Erendegard, Dame of Tucha was captured by Sandor Anduin Hortgarh's unit.
Ukko Menninkainen, Count of Chagasu was captured by Blade Murequa's unit.
Darka
Rythan Songslayer, Baron of Winser was captured by Rae Passeri's unit.
Clay Flame, Knight of Zin was captured by Gragrar Jynson's unit.
Greatman The Skypilot, Knight of Azzal was captured by Seabhac MacColl's unit.
Gwaine Wader, Knight of Rantire was captured by Jason Elegant's unit.
Oswald Outridge, Knight of Tolhuar was captured by Albin cIipt's unit.
Livia De La Coeur, Dame of Azzal was captured by Rae Passeri's unit.
Eston
Zathans Bane, Count of Meneriel was captured by Ulrich Gray's unit.
Ianish Tanver, Noble of Eston was captured by Jar Jar Dela Cruz's unit.
Khorii Despina, Countess of Dondor was captured by Audrey Vaughan's unit.
Margret Simpson, Dame of Amdor was captured by Aurthur Dent's unit.
Blade Murequa, Knight of Ashmoor was captured by Henry Ibelin's unit.
Azreal ap Gaenvan, Royal Treasurer of Eston, Baron of Elost was captured by Kozen Puff's unit.
I'm sorry that you lost to such an incompetent tactician. :'(
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 18, 2012, 02:42:52 AM
I'm sorry that you lost to such an incompetent tactician. :'(
Because the victory is owed to so much to the *brilliant* line settings and has zero to do with, you know, having more men and combat strength.
Quote from: Perth on November 18, 2012, 04:59:52 AM
Because the victory is owed to so much to the *brilliant* line settings and has zero to do with, you know, having more men and combat strength.
More excuses?
Quote from: Perth on November 18, 2012, 04:59:52 AM
Because the victory is owed to so much to the *brilliant* line settings and has zero to do with, you know, having more men and combat strength.
I'm sorry that you picked a fight with a bigger kid. :'(
Quote from: Blue Star on November 18, 2012, 05:56:46 AM
More excuses?
I think you need to look up the word excuse, because you keep misusing it.
How would that be an "excuse?"
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 18, 2012, 08:49:52 AM
I'm sorry that you picked a fight with a bigger kid. :'(
Me too. The worst part is when we picked it we were the bigger kid!
Damn steroid abusers...
Heh, we had only bad choises left. Let you bully our friend or fight back. I guess end result will be about the same :P But atleast we tried.
lol Tried is so past tense... c'mon!! Are tryING!! lol
:D
Yeah, we are trying, our hope is that one of "them" will get bored/annoyed and swtich side :) While we try to keep our self alive :P
Quote from: Perth on November 18, 2012, 09:29:33 AM
I think you need to look up the word excuse, because you keep misusing it.
Inconceivable!
Reading outrageously insulting "peace offers" from Eston nobles. Listening to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
Feels appropriate.
;D
Well, i guess they have to "shoot" blind their offers, cause as far as i know, you have not put any counter proposals where to start.
-Jaune
Quote from: Sonya on November 16, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
It has been years since i saw such a Huge battle!
It can but you have to be logged on Atamara.
-----
Note1:
What did these Special forces do? did they have some "Delete Cavalry Charge" Button?
Note2:
No to bash and face palm here but.....bad settings for Attackers...
Don't forget that the defending side was dug in giving them an extra advantage on that front.
So what's up between Minas Ithil and Minas Leon? I was expecting Minas Leon to fail, but they seem to be doing pretty good... What triggered the secession?
The Tarans defended Minas Leon until they got on their feet. Now that it's more or less a fair fight between the two Minases, the Tarans have withdrawn.
I have some snarky answers on why they seceded in the first place... but you should hear it from the players involved first. ;)
Quote from: Chénier on November 23, 2012, 06:10:07 PM
I was expecting Minas Leon to fail
Why fail, just because they were single city? They were on our side, fail-proof ;)
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 23, 2012, 04:25:24 AM
Reading outrageously insulting "peace offers" from Eston nobles. Listening to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
Feels appropriate.
+1
Quote from: GoldPanda on November 23, 2012, 04:25:24 AM
Reading outrageously insulting "peace offers" from Eston nobles. Listening to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
Feels appropriate.
What outrageous peace offers? You mean like "Hey, what are you terms of surrender for us?" three times with no response? Outrageous!
Quote from: Perth on November 25, 2012, 06:32:04 PM
What outrageous peace offers? You mean like "Hey, what are you terms of surrender for us?" three times with no response? Outrageous!
1. 2 cities
2. Change the color of your banners to include CE's colors
3. We get to keep Coria
There.
I would counter offer,
1. Hawthorne, and necessary rurally
2. Similar but not the same
3.Isn't that kinda a given or am I missing something?
#3 Is not part of the counter offer but an actual question. Also, I am not a part of Eston so it's a lot easier for me to give their lands away than it is for them.
Tides have turned ::)
Quote from: Perth on November 25, 2012, 06:32:04 PM
What outrageous peace offers? You mean like "Hey, what are you terms of surrender for us?" three times with no response? Outrageous!
... I'm not going to spoil it for you. It's more fun if you found out in-game. :)
My take on this whole thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q45E2n15PQ
Quote from: ^ban^ on December 04, 2012, 06:42:59 PM
My take on this whole thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q45E2n15PQ
LEGEND- WAIT FOR IT...
DARY!
Man, how 'bout them battles?!
Quote from: Indirik on December 04, 2012, 07:45:27 PM
Man, how 'bout them battles?!
That battle was huge.
140 nobles involved? Pretty sweet.
Yep. A couple people from Darka missed it because of travel delays, too.
Almost 80kCS altogether.
My god that was impressive. I honestly wasn't expecting that big of a clash. Too bad we lost, I really thought Darka and BoM were gonna screw something up. :-[ Oh well, Nazamroth wasn't exactly the most productive region to be Marquess of, so I can't complain too badly. :P
Quote from: ^ban^ on December 04, 2012, 06:42:59 PM
My take on this whole thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q45E2n15PQ
Reading the YouTube comments for that song gave me several diseases, none of which are pleasant.
Anyone want to share a scribe note of the battle? Sadly, if I join this war, I will be on the Empire's side as my realm is allied with Tara, which I support but I don't really like the rest of the Empire. On the plus side the Suville-Carelian conflict is providing some arguing between CE and Tara as Tara supports Carelia, while CE supports Suville.
Quote from: Perth on December 04, 2012, 11:27:08 PM
That battle was huge.
140 nobles involved? Pretty sweet.
Reminded me of the old battles between Abington and CE.
Quote from: Velax on December 05, 2012, 04:23:04 AM
Reading the YouTube comments for that song gave me several diseases, none of which are pleasant.
YouTube comments were dumb?
Go on. Tell me more.
Quote from: ^ban^ on December 05, 2012, 05:01:10 AM
YouTube comments were dumb?
Go on. Tell me more.
I don't always comment on youtube videos...
Quote from: Penchant on December 05, 2012, 04:37:11 AM
On the plus side the Suville-Carelian conflict is providing some arguing between CE and Tara as Tara supports Carelia, while CE supports Suville.
Must be nice to fight proxy wars. Oh the opulence!
It's not a proxy war if no one actually gets hurt. It's more like a Pokemon battle between civilized gentlemen. There is a lot of posturing, and everyone goes drinking together afterwards.
Suville, I choose you!
Quote from: ^ban^ on December 05, 2012, 05:01:10 AM
YouTube comments were dumb?
Go on. Tell me more.
Well, one person mentioned something about how the Turks conquered Constantinople (I am unsure what this has to do with the song, but I admit to being unfamiliar with the band) which made several other people comment about how the Turks didn't really conquer it, it was the European mercenaries the Turks had hired. Then people started calling each other names, and then I felt ill and was diagnosed with the aforementioned diseases.
Quote from: Velax on December 05, 2012, 01:00:56 PM
Well, one person mentioned something about how the Turks conquered Constantinople (I am unsure what this has to do with the song, but I admit to being unfamiliar with the band) which made several other people comment about how the Turks didn't really conquer it, it was the European mercenaries the Turks had hired. Then people started calling each other names, and then I felt ill and was diagnosed with the aforementioned diseases.
Obligatory:
http://xkcd.com/481/
A 2K CS advantage for the attackers and they get blown away by the defenders in round one. Let's see about round two! (If the CE is ready for another ass whipping).
I have to do all my trash talking here since I got wounded. :(
Quote from: Uzamaki on December 17, 2012, 06:41:18 AM
A 2K CS advantage for the attackers and they get blown away by the defenders in round one. Let's see about round two! (If the CE is ready for another ass whipping).
I have to do all my trash talking here since I got wounded. :(
what was the CS of each side?
Quote from: Penchant on December 17, 2012, 06:43:05 AM
what was the CS of each side?
66 attackers (2218 Inf, 107 MI, 817 Arch, 446 Cav, 271 SF)
67 defenders (1920 Inf, 99 MI, 518 Arch, 357 Cav, 337 SF)
Total combat strengths: 43497 vs. 41526
Round 2 is going to be a win for CE, why? Cause I'm there, booya!
So, you're part of the 10kcs of slackers that didn't make it in time for the first battle, eh?
Not I just came back from Cagil after having most of my unit destroyed by the first battle and then the Makarians in Alaise. It seems my refit took just one turn tooooo long.
Someone just stabbed Cyrilos, and presumably claimed the gigantic bounty.
Congrats, whoever you are (I'm guessing the Rieleston infil– Elroy Anderbliss methinks?)
Quote from: Vellos on December 17, 2012, 10:44:15 PM
Someone just stabbed Cyrilos, and presumably claimed the gigantic bounty.
Congrats, whoever you are (I'm guessing the Rieleston infil– Elroy Anderbliss methinks?)
Can't trust the Anderbliss family. Treacherous people they are.
Quote from: Chénier on December 18, 2012, 04:54:29 AM
Can't trust the Anderbliss family. Treacherous people they are.
Funny, I thought I heard the exact same words in Sint, but you'd have to replace "Anderbliss" with "Chénier". :P
Quote from: Eirikr on December 18, 2012, 07:03:15 AM
Funny, I thought I heard the exact same words in Sint, but you'd have to replace "Anderbliss" with "Chénier". :P
Of course, if you are daimon-worshippers and there was just one guy that had the guts to call you out for all the atrocities you've committed over a few invasions in a row, I can see how you'd dislike the guy. ;)
CE/Tara/Talerium pushed on to Anost. Wonder what Eston will do.
Quote from: Quintus Ennius on December 19, 2012, 12:45:07 PM
CE/Tara/Talerium pushed on to Anost. Wonder what Eston will do.
Whimper?
Probably stare at them. I hear both sides have gotten really good at staring these past years.
QuoteHuge Battle Fought (2 hours, 45 minutes ago)
Rumours spread and tales are sung about a huge battle in Anost:
Barony of Makar, Darka, Eston vs. Cagilan Empire, Strombran, Talerium
Estimated strengths: 3860 men vs. 2130 men
The Black Hussars (Eston), sponsored by Axim Decimus, Duke of Belegrond, Margrave of Belegrond, were led into battle by Marshal Thiam Cuernalis.
The Army of Thorns (Eston), sponsored by Athena Leather, Royal Justiciar of Eston, Duchess of Barad Lacirith, Margravine of Barad Lacirith, were led into battle by Marshal Stannis Verlox.
The Est Sularus oth Mithas (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Milan Prestongreen, Ambassador of Cagilan Empire, Duke of Cagil, Margrave of Cagil, were led into battle by Marshal Charles Elegant.
The Calis Lions (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Salvador Zond, Ambassador of Cagilan Empire, Duke of Calis, Margrave of Calis, were led into battle by Marshal Enri Kinsey.
The Fyrd of Ered Luin (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Salvador Zond, Ambassador of Cagilan Empire, Duke of Calis, Margrave of Calis, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Berlas of Burgundy.
The Pax Cagila (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Milan Prestongreen, Ambassador of Cagilan Empire, Duke of Cagil, Margrave of Cagil, were led into battle by Marshal Mizuhiro Ishida.
The Eaglin Eagles (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Archymond Paxwax, Duke of Eaglin, Margrave of Eaglin, were led into battle by Marshal Virgo Blue Star.
The Lightning Griffins (Cagilan Empire), sponsored by Archymond Paxwax, Duke of Eaglin, Margrave of Eaglin, were led into battle by Marshal Archymond Paxwax.
The Northern Guard (Darka), sponsored by Sebastian O'Riley, Duke of Siver, Margrave of Siver, were led into battle by Marshal Qaratai Borjigin.
The Royal Army of Darka (Darka), sponsored by Lasse Vasata, Ambassador of Darka, Duke of Azzal, Margrave of Azzal, Priest of Darkanism, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Raud Crownguard.
The Makarian Horde (Barony of Makar), sponsored by Ender Neill, Duke of Makar, Margrave of Makar, were led into battle by Marshal Maduin Eirikr.
The Strombran Stormguard (Strombran), sponsored by Cadelius Strika, Duke of Strombran, Margrave of Strombran, were led into battle by Vice-Marshal Raphael Francios.
Kostaja Kosunen Cosula, King of Darka is spotted wielding the Whispering Staff of Battle.
Kostaja Kosunen Cosula, King of Darka is spotted wearing the Dragon-Scale Jacket of Rantire.
Aknar Frendrin, Knight of Lakota is spotted wearing the Tempus' Chain Mail of Lakota.
Archymond Paxwax, Duke of Eaglin, Margrave of Eaglin is spotted wearing the Cursed Flute.
Kostaja Kosunen Cosula, King of Darka is spotted reading from the Yast's Book of Necromancy.
Godfrid Janssen, Count of Tellwood was captured by Blyzaard Plaraveen's unit.
Margret Simpson, Dame of Amdor was captured by Yova Bremen's unit.
Ferleve de Hauteville, Dame of Xutltec was captured by Luthor Forbes's unit.
Hector McGahee, Knight of Mnt. Sinclair was captured by Gregory Gray's unit.
Beck Mozzoni, Dame of Wistir was captured by Enri Kinsey's unit.
Gwaine Wader, Knight of Rantire was captured by Jason Elegant's unit.
Justin Allard, Knight of Melias was captured by Crimson Strika's unit.
Sir Kende Indirik, General of Darka, Knight of Massillion was captured by Sheeana Aeterdust's unit.
Schaeffer Blackwood, Knight of Saler was captured by Josh spartan's unit.
Blade Murequa, Knight of Barad Lacirith was captured by Berlas of Burgundy's unit.
Oswald Outridge, Knight of Tolhuar was captured by Albatross of the Silverwinds's unit.
Cymore Maxwell, Banker of Cagilan Empire, Knight of Calis was captured by Livia De La Coeur's unit.
Landro Darlor Lawrence, Knight of Saradic was captured by Enri Kinsey's unit.
Defender Victory!
The CE Judge is going to complain about overcrowding in the dungeons again...
And we probably will still have another battle...
Wow that battle looks exciting, do those happen often on Atamara? I'm wondering if I should migrate my Beluatera character there.
Only two goblins were captured the rest of the Barony seems to have correctly flee'd
Quote from: Kwanstein on January 02, 2013, 06:13:52 PM
Wow that battle looks exciting, do those happen often on Atamara? I'm wondering if I should migrate my Beluatera character there.
Yes, actually. Unfortunately, however, battles that should be won are often lost... Personal woes aside, I'd say battles that large happen every 1-2 weeks... over the same 3-4 regions. If you want to get in on the action, I'd suggest joining either the CE or one of the Northern realms (BoM, Darka or Eston). I'd suggest Eston specifically out of the Northern realms, but it's hurting right now. I'd feel bad if they lost just as you joined.
Unrelated: The current map of Atamara really makes Rieleston's name obvious. (Emphasis added, necessary or not.)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/63734_586368801379208_569306856_n.jpg)
Other than comedic effect, why is Eston's label all the way over there?
Eston/Rieleston (whichever one is the small mountainous realm) looks good. Their geography is unique, their realm small and their enemies many... just the way I like it. I may emigrate there in a week or so. If I do I'll bring one of those monster summoning scrolls with me - and hopefully get to use it!
Quote from: Kwanstein on January 02, 2013, 08:09:43 PM
Eston/Rieleston (whichever one is the small mountainous realm) looks good. Their geography is unique, their realm small and their enemies many... just the way I like it. I may emigrate there in a week or so. If I do I'll bring one of those monster summoning scrolls with me - and hopefully get to use it!
That would be Rieleston, but they aren't fighting in the major conflict right now.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 02, 2013, 07:38:38 PM
Unrelated: The current map of Atamara really makes Rieleston's name obvious. (Emphasis added, necessary or not.)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/63734_586368801379208_569306856_n.jpg)
Other than comedic effect, why is Eston's label all the way over there?
It does funky stuff like that... If the labeller can detect where the capital is, it should probably consider that for label placement. I doubt it can, though...
Same for duchies, with the duke's region (if any).
Otherwise, it should label the biggest mass (if it can). It seems to favor the smallest mass more often than not.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 02, 2013, 07:38:38 PM
Other than comedic effect, why is Eston's label all the way over there?
... What's that, map? You want to make Eston a rump state that only has Elost left? ... Isn't that kind of cruel and silly, map? ... Well, okay. You're the boss. ???
Okay so lets take a look at that map:
Change the name of Suville to Abington, change the name of Coria to Falasan, ignore the fact that Strombran exists and bam, we're looking back in time.
Actually, Strombran is the new Carelia and Carelia is the new Redspan - it's exactly the same as it was during the good old days!
It is a huge mistake to look realm borders. People do always forget real influence. When I look at the map it doesn't look at the same at all. We have managed to get rid off those who had different kind of views.
It just clicked, Rieleston is a play on words Real Eston... :-[
Quote from: Zadar on January 06, 2013, 01:25:52 AM
It is a huge mistake to look realm borders. People do always forget real influence. When I look at the map it doesn't look at the same at all. We have managed to get rid off those who had different kind of views.
And you seriously believe and trust those southeners? Or Coria? You dont have get rid off many of those who had diffrent kind of views, you have just forced them to say "aye aye sir!".
-Jaune
Trust must be earned. Sometimes even allies will stab you but I have chosen to keep up my promises even to them who try to harm us.( Tara )
Quote from: Radigand on January 06, 2013, 08:36:49 AM
It just clicked, Rieleston is a play on words Real Eston... :-[
Hence the map. Welcome to a few months ago! :P
Quote from: Zadar on January 06, 2013, 06:52:10 PM
Trust must be earned. Sometimes even allies will stab you but I have chosen to keep up my promises even to them who try to harm us.( Tara )
You keep your promises like Darth Vader honors his deals.
Quote from: Geronus on January 08, 2013, 05:51:38 PM
You keep your promises like Darth Vader honors his deals.
Whoa. Sounds like someone has trouble separating IC from OOC. :)
Quote from: GoldPanda on January 09, 2013, 08:14:09 AM
Whoa. Sounds like someone has trouble separating IC from OOC. :)
Or it sounds like someoen has been in tara before...
Y'all just need to calm down. Of course Darth Vader honors his deals. He honors them to the death.
Quote from: jaune on January 06, 2013, 09:02:01 AM
And you seriously believe and trust those southeners? Or Coria? You dont have get rid off many of those who had diffrent kind of views, you have just forced them to say "aye aye sir!".
-Jaune
What's not to trust? I'm pretty sure that Darka has been the one attacking Coria and not the other way around. I'd be interested to hear of a single instance when Corian troops have walked on Darkan soil, but of course the same could not be said about the reverse.
As far as I'm aware, Coria has always kept its promises.
QuoteAs far as I'm aware, Coria has always kept its promises.
Like staying away from the war? Like agreeing to attack Tara? (Ok, this was not never agreed to do, cause you backed off when you had to actually do what you say).
Anyway, what i meant was that Coria is sneaky and twists words and papers. I guess i already mentioned somewhere that written agreements are the !@#$. If you cant trust without name on the paper, you really dont trust.
Quote from: jaune on January 09, 2013, 12:07:42 PM
Like staying away from the war?
Coria stayed away from the war as agreed until one of your allies decided to breach that agreement and attack Coria. Hammarsett plotted with Minas Ithil to supplant Coria with itself and trade the duchy of Shanandoah back to Minas Ithil in exchange for their support. If the northern alliance didn't want us to rejoin the war then they should have sought to stop their allies from breaking agreements.
Quote from: jaune on January 09, 2013, 12:07:42 PM
Like agreeing to attack Tara? (Ok, this was not never agreed to do, cause you backed off when you had to actually do what you say).
Coria never agreed to attack Tara as you've said. You can twist words however you like, but what I have said is true. Coria has always stood by its agreements. The problem is that the North for too long has viewed Coria simply as a minor puppet which either they can manipulate or attack so that in your view CE can't manipulate us. I would think though that after Coria has successfully won two wars now against the north that we'd have earned some respect.
Quote from: jaune on January 09, 2013, 12:07:42 PM
Anyway, what i meant was that Coria is sneaky and twists words and papers. I guess i already mentioned somewhere that written agreements are the !@#$. If you cant trust without name on the paper, you really dont trust.
Written agreements can clearly outline what each party wants. Goodwill and trust can only go so far when neither side clearly has defined what is expected of the other party. Why do you think the north has so often fallen into fighting amongst each other? Only Dictator Sordnaz is one who has properly managed diplomacy without the use of treaties.
I also think that there is a dichotomy between the north and the central realms due to government style. Many in the north expect that the single word of a ruler is always the full opinion of the realm which they represent. While that is true in the north while the ruler is a King or Dictator, that same regard isn't true for Consuls and Prime Ministers. For instance, while the Consul of Coria is representative of our realm's interests, all treaties require Senate approval even after all negotiation is done. That is why you can trust any agreement that Coria makes because the realm is behind it. Discussions leading up to an agreement though are simply that, discussions of possibilities.
Quote from: jaune on January 09, 2013, 12:07:42 PM
Like staying away from the war? Like agreeing to attack Tara? (Ok, this was not never agreed to do, cause you backed off when you had to actually do what you say).
Anyway, what i meant was that Coria is sneaky and twists words and papers. I guess i already mentioned somewhere that written agreements are the !@#$. If you cant trust without name on the paper, you really dont trust.
I find myself also having to respond to this. I know Coria was attacked by Hammarsett first. You can't expect us to not defend ourselves because we're "supposed to stay out of the war". We've stayed out of the war with Eston, though. The whole deal with Tara retreating could be argued as participating, but IC, my character doesn't agree. There's nothing untrustworthy there, he's just strictly following the treaty. (Which, as an aside, did Kerwin drop that? I have been ready to negotiate it...)
As for attacking Tara, if you've seen the whole process, you'd know that we never reached an agreement. We got close, in fact, Coria was ready to sign something
long before Darka, Eston or BoM. Back then, I could've convinced Coria to agree, but by the time you guys were ready, the plan had been leaked (through Minas Ithil, no less...
1), you had almost nothing to offer Coria and, as a result, I could no longer convince Coria. We never even got to a point where we could do "what [we] say". Hammarsett held out until the very end... If we'd tried to turn on Tara then, we'd be marching with hardly any strength into almost certain failure... for what, a city and a ravaged duchy? This doesn't even account for the likely revolt by my nobles (due to the timing), the damage to our own lands, and the forewarning that Tara got. On top of all that, at that point, the treaty hadn't been signed by anyone yet. As I recall, there were still some issues over specific terms. Ravendon may be sneaky, but he's not entirely stupid. Even so, I am
still dealing with the repercussions in the Central Alliance for when it was discovered. Of course, this is all OOC. Only a few people IC have all the pieces to connect as far as I know.
On the last point, though, I won't deny that Ravendon, at least is sneaky and twists words when he needs to... But he will
always stick to treaties or official agreements. You have to remember that Coria was the one defecting, not the North. You better bet we want some kind of assurance that our butts are covered. A paper treaty is a perfect representation of that. No sane man would trust an agreement made with his (current) enemy blindly. It doesn't matter if you believe you should be able to trust someone without their name on a treaty, you weren't the ones going out on a limb. If I can't trust you to catch me when I fall, why would I jump at all? You're the one on the ground, you don't have nearly as much uncertainty. To put that in IC terms, if we had turned on Tara, we'd be the ones at risk, not the North. If the new alliance failed, the North remains much the same and Coria is either destroyed or forever scorned. Ergo, it's not your side that should have been worried as much about trust. If we insist on a treaty being made to finalize anything and to trust you to carry out those terms, you can't claim we don't stick to our word because we don't trust you without a treaty. It's like being told to write a book report, doing half of it and then complaining you didn't get full credit because you
did read the book and you
might get around to finishing the book report... We'll just have to trust you on both of those details.
It's also important for Coria and elected rulers to have paper treaties due to the election cycle. (I'll admit ignorance here when talking about other government styles and their election cycles.) Every month, there's a chance that someone doesn't have faith in Ravendon's leadership and runs against him. He might even win. When he does, do you expect Ravendon will remember every single thing he needs to say to this new leader?
Luckily, much of this is over for us, though, or I'd be concerned about even speaking of it OOC. I've been working for months now to redefine Coria from being sneaky and careful to bold and straightforward now that we're in a position to do so. We'll see how everything works out when we can go back to war. There's less than 2 months before our treaties with MI (gone in less than that is my bet) and BoM pass their forced existence. After that, we get to reassess who we want to fight, if anyone. (I kind of fubar'd the only other front we'd have considered fighting on... Even if he isn't responsible, the South seems to have been all about peace since I sent Ambassador Asleon down. I originally sent him down to figure out if we'd have to go to war soon and which side we should actually support.)
Sorry for the huge post.
EDIT: Forgot something. That superscript:
1: Minas Ithil was actually directly responsible for the leak... So the assertion that Coria backed off because we didn't hold to our word is nonsense. Luckily for me, it worked out likely better, but much less interesting this way.
Well, this war is all over but for the crying. Eston has completely collapsed, and their military leadership has disappeared. :(
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 12:06:44 AM
the South seems to have been all about peace since I sent Ambassador Asleon down. I originally sent him down to figure out if we'd have to go to war soon and which side we should actually support.)
I'm just that good... magic fingers lads. Interesting though that I basically got the power to influence Coria's entire stance of the south, or at least for a large part.
On a more related note, Coria has grown much since it's creation. However as far as I can tell we have always kept our word. Also my char was unaware that we even made plans to attack Tara, believe I just came to Coria around then and lacked any form of influence...?
Quote from: Quintus Ennius on January 10, 2013, 12:19:03 AM
I'm just that good... magic fingers lads. Interesting though that I basically got the power to influence Coria's entire stance of the south, or at least for a large part.
On a more related note, Coria has grown much since it's creation. However as far as I can tell we have always kept our word. Also my char was unaware that we even made plans to attack Tara, believe I just came to Coria around then and lacked any form of influence...?
Yeah, the South has constantly been of disinterest to me. I get little correspondence from down there and when I try to send some out, I get little in return. No biggie, though, we've had more pressing problems. The only reason I got involved in the South at all was to see what I could do about the CE/Tara situation for better or for worse (which is also subjective).
The plans were always at a high level. They never got past the Council, but even the Council doesn't know the full story. As I said, very few people have all the pieces. Most of what I said in my previous post was before only known to the Northern rulers. It's not something Ravendon is proud of at this point, so he rarely speaks of it. (More because he honestly thought it'd be good for Coria and Atamara as a whole down the road, but now he just looks bad without having actually had any effect on the continental situation.)
Way to destroy months and months of IC work with one OOC post...lol.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 10, 2013, 02:39:26 AM
Way to destroy months and months of IC work with one OOC post...lol.
Well, first of all, it's OOC... I have
some faith that people on the forums respect that. Second of all, that plan is kaput anyway. At this point in time, if the same idea were to be proposed, it'd be Coria, Darka and BoM as the three major powers. Eston would've been the centerpoint, but they're not doing so well. I'd say the plan got destroyed IC in about an eighth of the time we spent working on it.
Man, maybe I'm just sour grapes... but Eston sure got left out to dry in this whole thing... We desperately needed Darka and Coria to be successful, and both just sat by and watched it all happen. Failure on my part, I guess. :-\
And yes, our General and Most Influential Duke (same player, two characters) up and quit the game... had been playing since '04.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 02:58:43 AM
Well, first of all, it's OOC... I have some faith that people on the forums respect that. Second of all, that plan is kaput anyway. At this point in time, if the same idea were to be proposed, it'd be Coria, Darka and BoM as the three major powers. Eston would've been the centerpoint, but they're not doing so well. I'd say the plan got destroyed IC in about an eighth of the time we spent working on it.
You've got more faith then me, but perhaps I'm just sour after past experiences.
Some things just shouldn't be said OOC.
What do you mean "we?"
I'm pretty sure you're taking the flak on this one bud. ;D
Quote from: Perth on January 10, 2013, 03:07:47 AM
Man, maybe I'm just sour grapes... but Eston sure got left out to dry in this whole thing... We desperately needed Darka and Coria to be successful, and both just sat by and watched it all happen. Failure on my part, I guess. :-\
And yes, our General and Most Influential Duke (same player, two characters) up and quit the game... had been playing since '04.
I'm pretty sure that Coria was successful. At least we're larger than Eston now, with a higher population and income. If that's not success, well idk what it is. Not everyone can be as strong as CE.
Also, if you want Darka to be successful it helps if you don't have them attacking the realm which you also want to be successful.
What Eston REALLY needed was Carelia to be successful in their initial strike on CE. or the north staying unified, or your allies following treaties, or the loss of two dukes (one taking his duchy)..etc...
btw, perhaps the Monarchy of Eston is cursed. Things didn't go so well for the last guy either.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 10, 2013, 03:53:37 AM
What do you mean "we?"
I'm pretty sure you're taking the flak on this one bud. ;D
I'll leave the specifics of "we" unsaid, but there are possibilities... We, meaning the rulers of Coria and the North... We, meaning those in Coria who knew about it... You get the idea. :P
It's cool with me, I'll take all the OOC flak for it and hope I can continue to hold my faith in people keeping OOC and IC separate. Call it an experiment.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 12:06:44 AMAfter that, we get to reassess who we want to fight, if anyone. (I kind of fubar'd the only other front we'd have considered fighting on... Even if he isn't responsible, the South seems to have been all about peace since I sent Ambassador Asleon down. I originally sent him down to figure out if we'd have to go to war soon and which side we should actually support.)
If you would have mentioned the possibility of an alliance there would definitely have been war. I can't say that Carelia's Queen is the reason we have peace because its actually not, but she did make the executive decision to go for peace when we could have continued the war even still be the victim, just it would have been the victim that destroyed its attacker. When I did the peace process I tried for peace enough so that Suville could not say we didn't try for peace and that it was all our fault for the war continuing but I hoped for war to continue as it was all in Carelia's favor, plus way more fun. I even advised against choosing peace at the last step where my queen got to choose for peace or war. Lastly, Carelia will be going to war soon, though who with I am not 100% on but we need to go to war and I plan to make it happen especially with it being easy to, we just will not be pursuing the war with Suville sadly.
Alliance with who, though? We're already allied with Suville.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 05:17:26 AM
Alliance with who, though? We're already allied with Suville.
Thats right... Well in that case did you really expect Carelia to pursue war with Suville gaining another ally? Then again with Tara helping us I believe you would be kinda irrelevant as we would just make sure the Tarans disabled you from helping by always having atleast one Taran with us.
Quote from: Penchant on January 10, 2013, 05:52:17 AM
Thats right... Well in that case did you really expect Carelia to pursue war with Suville gaining another ally? Then again with Tara helping us I believe you would be kinda irrelevant as we would just make sure the Tarans disabled you from helping by always having atleast one Taran with us.
Actually that decision would have depended mostly on Asleon's recommendations on who was 'right' in your conflict and who wished to continue war.
I'm curious though you intend to go to war again, but not Suville. There are only 2 options left really:
1] Attack the central alliance (unless you get Tara's help that's gonna be a death sentence)
2] You can join in on the assaults on Eston/Darka, but I'm not sure if that little bit of extra aid at this point will do anything than possibly slightly speed up the process.
Although you could always continue the Redspann way, go and march to BoM! After all, you do occupy some of their former lands.
Quote from: GoldPanda on January 09, 2013, 08:14:09 AM
Whoa. Sounds like someone has trouble separating IC from OOC. :)
Not really, it was just an observation, though it's definitely biased. Having dealt with Ottar IC, I've noted that he is very careful to stick to the letter of his agreements. It's his interpretation of exactly what those agreements mean that shifts. So, you might agree to a set of terms, and they will be interpreted a certain way for a while. All of a sudden though, Ottar will say "Now the agreement means this," and you can't do jack about it (which he knows perfectly well) because, well, Tara is Tara and unless you're CE you basically have to take what you're given and try not to choke too much on your indignation.
Laszlo's IC advice to anyone who ever asked would be to be careful about what you agree to with Ottar. Just because you think it means one thing doesn't mean Ottar sees it that way, or that he will see it that way indefinitely. He can and will freely alter his understanding of the deal depending on his own interests. Hence the Darth Vader analogy. Honestly you're better off not making agreements with him in the first place unless you've got the muscle (diplomatic or military) to force him to stick with your interpretation of the agreement. He cannot be relied upon to stick to one interpretation, so if you make a deal what you're really doing is giving him leverage over you since he indisputably does have the muscle to force you to stick to whatever version of your "deal" suits him best.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 09, 2013, 10:16:15 PM
Coria never agreed to attack Tara as you've said. You can twist words however you like, but what I have said is true. Coria has always stood by its agreements. The problem is that the North for too long has viewed Coria simply as a minor puppet which either they can manipulate or attack so that in your view CE can't manipulate us. I would think though that after Coria has successfully won two wars now against the north that we'd have earned some respect.
Laszlo actually grew to like Coria once Saeculo was out of the picture. That said, I will tell you that you still won't get respect because the enduring image in most people's minds ought to be that Coria was saved by the Taran army. Incidentally, that also does nothing to disabuse people of the notion that Coria remains a client state of the CE bloc.
I know you like to emphasize Corian independence, but honestly I doubt you will get much respect for that assertion until you do more to separate yourselves from CE and Tara. It's easy to win wars when you've got the island's twin hegemons backing you up, and it's hard to believe anything you have to say about how independent Coria is when everything you do paints a picture of a Coria that is still wedded to that support. You talk a big game about the many ways in which you're prepared not to toe the Cagilan line, but very rarely do those words translate into actions IG. Walk the walk and things might change.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 04:41:52 AM
I'll leave the specifics of "we" unsaid, but there are possibilities... We, meaning the rulers of Coria and the North... We, meaning those in Coria who knew about it... You get the idea. :P
It's cool with me, I'll take all the OOC flak for it and hope I can continue to hold my faith in people keeping OOC and IC separate. Call it an experiment.
Pfft, its been IC knowledge of my char for weeks already. Though he is a bit doubting if its true. As people have thrown all sort of wild conspiracy theories at him.
Quote from: Geronus on January 10, 2013, 05:55:18 PM
Laszlo actually grew to like Coria once Saeculo was out of the picture. That said, I will tell you that you still won't get respect because the enduring image in most people's minds ought to be that Coria was saved by the Taran army. Incidentally, that also does nothing to disabuse people of the notion that Coria remains a client state of the CE bloc.
I know you like to emphasize Corian independence, but honestly I doubt you will get much respect for that assertion until you do more to separate yourselves from CE and Tara. It's easy to win wars when you've got the island's twin hegemons backing you up, and it's hard to believe anything you have to say about how independent Coria is when everything you do paints a picture of a Coria that is still wedded to that support. You talk a big game about the many ways in which you're prepared not to toe the Cagilan line, but very rarely do those words translate into actions IG. Walk the walk and things might change.
Actually, worse. It looks like we were saved by the CE. When they came in is when we definitively started to win the war.
I'm not going to lie, it is pretty tough to translate that into the game. That support structure is pretty darn nice. Of course, the other part of this is that we just finally finished recovering. I think Cheltenborne is about to be able to hold court. It'll be interesting to see what we can do at full strength. We'll probably remain looking that way until we actually come to blows with one of the Central Alliance, but I don't know how likely that is anymore. Coria has more strong-voiced nobles than ever before and they seem pretty comfortable with the situation.
If Coria goes against CE, they also end up going the way of Falasan.
Quote from: Quintus Ennius on January 10, 2013, 05:27:59 PM
Actually that decision would have depended mostly on Asleon's recommendations on who was 'right' in your conflict and who wished to continue war.
I'm curious though you intend to go to war again, but not Suville. There are only 2 options left really:
1] Attack the central alliance (unless you get Tara's help that's gonna be a death sentence)
2] You can join in on the assaults on Eston/Darka, but I'm not sure if that little bit of extra aid at this point will do anything than possibly slightly speed up the process.
Although you could always continue the Redspann way, go and march to BoM! After all, you do occupy some of their former lands.
Carelia is still at war with Mina's Ithil so we might pointlessly go fight them or we aid Tara in fighting.
Quote from: Indirik on January 10, 2013, 10:44:10 PM
If Coria goes against CE, they also end up going the way of Falasan.
Precisely what I want to avoid.
Quote from: Penchant on January 10, 2013, 10:49:07 PM
Carelia is still at war with Mina's Ithil so we might pointlessly go fight them or we aid Tara in fighting.
Please tell me the Minas Ithil thing is a joke. There's nothing left.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 11:34:27 PM
Precisely what I want to avoid.
Please tell me the Minas Ithil thing is a joke. There's nothing left.
I had thought they had a few more regions so we will probablyy just aid Tara but no war is bad for Carelia as all our nobles are dying of boredom already.
They have York and Mansbridge, that's it. Coria wouldn't let you through, though. We still have a treaty for another month and a half to prevent passage through us to hit MI or BoM. Unless, you know, you want to fight Coria for passage. :P
Quote from: Eirikr on January 10, 2013, 11:59:37 PM
They have York and Mansbridge, that's it. Coria wouldn't let you through, though. We still have a treaty for another month and a half to prevent passage through us to hit MI or BoM. Unless, you know, you want to fight Coria for passage. :P
I'll be very interested to see if anyone takes advantage of that treaty's expiration.
Speaking MI, what is ML up to these days, other than taking York after Coria-Eston treaty expires? And we haven't heard much from Rielston, Caergoth and Strombran.
Quote from: Geronus on January 11, 2013, 12:03:40 AM
I'll be very interested to see if anyone takes advantage of that treaty's expiration.
To me the question isn't if someone
will, but
who that will be.
Strombran is sending up troops to help curbstomp Eston.
Will they get there in time?
They have been for a few weeks.
So... yes?
Not only has Strombran been there for weeks but we are practically always there as our army rotates and carries enough cash to stay in the field for weeks. Unless the army looses a bad battle we are able to be there for quite some time.
Quote from: Radigand on January 11, 2013, 12:17:43 AM
Speaking MI, what is ML up to these days, other than taking York after Coria-Eston treaty expires? And we haven't heard much from Rielston, Caergoth and Strombran.
ML is taking over Mansbridge at the moment. York will be next unless MI agrees to some sort of surrender to ML (which seems unlikely).
Quote from: Sypher on January 11, 2013, 05:03:09 AM
ML is taking over Mansbridge at the moment. York will be next unless MI agrees to some sort of surrender to ML (which seems unlikely).
If MI surrendered would you give them anything or would they be stuck with just York?
Quote from: Penchant on January 11, 2013, 05:48:42 AM
If MI surrendered would you give them anything or would they be stuck with just York?
Well I'm in MI, but the current offer is just to keep York. There are some other conditions but I'm not sure they are relevant considering there doesn't seem to be much chance of King Sidd agreeing to it. Something like "I'd rather die first"*.
(*not exact quote)
Quote from: Forbes Family on January 11, 2013, 03:06:57 AM
Not only has Strombran been there for weeks but we are practically always there as our army rotates and carries enough cash to stay in the field for weeks. Unless the army looses a bad battle we are able to be there for quite some time.
Can you lend some military leaders to Tara? They seem to have problems staying on the front longer than a few days.
O this has been alive lately ::)
Well i guess the Central Alliance has made a lot of progress, not that i've been truly observing just enjoying all the rants going on here and there.
Whats next you gotta wonder is will All of the North feel the wrath of the central alliance or will only some of it?
AT has really bottle necked itself with treaties and alliances. Everyone once to be CE/Tara's friend no one else willing truly to fight. mm Abington should get its butt in gear!.. O I mean Suville.
Quote from: Sypher on January 11, 2013, 06:56:32 AM
Well I'm in MI, but the current offer is just to keep York. There are some other conditions but I'm not sure they are relevant considering there doesn't seem to be much chance of King Sidd agreeing to it. Something like "I'd rather die first"*.
(*not exact quote)
Hehe, maybe the offer was meant to be rejected? ;)
Quote from: Sypher on January 11, 2013, 06:56:32 AM
Well I'm in MI, but the current offer is just to keep York. There are some other conditions but I'm not sure they are relevant considering there doesn't seem to be much chance of King Sidd agreeing to it. Something like "I'd rather die first"*.
(*not exact quote)
I would say the same thing with that offer.
Quote from: m2rt on January 11, 2013, 07:32:34 PM
Hehe, maybe the offer was meant to be rejected? ;)
I take it, it was considering I believe you are the player of Raoul
Darka vs. The World?
or...
Sordnaz Has Visitors?
Yeah, with Eston's surrender I'll be interested to see what happens to BoM and Darka.
Quote from: Vellos on January 16, 2013, 08:39:28 PM
Yeah, with Eston's surrender I'll be interested to see what happens to BoM and Darka.
Seeing as CE and company do not seem to want give any terms for peace I suppose it'll end up being death to all.
Quote from: LilWolf on January 16, 2013, 08:47:53 PM
Seeing as CE and company do not seem to want give any terms for peace I suppose it'll end up being death to all.
If that's indeed the case, I'd jump on a ship to darka tonight.
Fight the entire CE alliance alone, on your own soil with the reserves that Darka has... there hasn't been a war that epic since ibby gambled and failed. And I have a feeling that that war won't even come close to this one. :)
Meh, it won't be too much of a war. If the Empire brings the same forces to Darka that they brought to Eston, they'll roll over us. They have managed to keep 35-40K CS in a big blob as they walk across Eston.
The only chance we have is if Talerium and Tara stay out of it. At that point, it would be CE against Darka. We may be able to hold out against that for quite a while, if Talerium holds to the border treaty. That would make things interesting.
Quote from: Indirik on January 16, 2013, 10:27:29 PM
Meh, it won't be too much of a war. If the Empire brings the same forces to Darka that they brought to Eston, they'll roll over us. They have managed to keep 35-40K CS in a big blob as they walk across Eston.
This is sounding better with the minute. It's like playing a BT Invasion on hard, just how I like it. :)
As long the guy with all the banishing scrolls auto-pauses just like last Invasion, CE will be fine.
Quote from: LilWolf on January 16, 2013, 08:47:53 PM
Seeing as CE and company do not seem to want give any terms for peace I suppose it'll end up being death to all.
They've been working on terms, but things keep changing. A combination of factors has prevented them from issuing anything final. I think they also expected to be at a standstill for much longer and weren't prepared for such success and the resulting increased demands they could make. It probably doesn't help that they've been able to keep pushing that advantage (which, I've got to say, is pretty impressive... those cycled refits are amazing).
Quote from: Indirik on January 16, 2013, 10:27:29 PM
The only chance we have is if Talerium and Tara stay out of it. At that point, it would be CE against Darka. We may be able to hold out against that for quite a while, if Talerium holds to the border treaty. That would make things interesting.
Talerium would almost certainly stay out, but I doubt Tara would. I won't lie, Coria would probably join in Talerium's place.
Which pretty much makes it a non-war.
Exactly... I'm very curious, however, what will happen as the map changes so radically. It really does seem like it'l eventually stagnate, but I can't really justify an IC reason why I wouldn't want things to continue on this road (at least for Ravendon).
Have there been any circumstances similar to this on other islands? How were they resolved?
Any chance we could get an Invasion, just as a catalyst? (Perhaps not as harsh as Beluaterra's Invasions, but something powerful enough to break up the situation.) :P
Quote from: Eirikr on January 17, 2013, 06:43:10 AM
Any chance we could get an Invasion, just as a catalyst? (Perhaps not as harsh as Beluaterra's Invasions, but something powerful enough to break up the situation.) :P
Unless the invasion only hit CE, it wouldn't do anything.
Yup. It's going to take Eston years to recover from all of this.... if it recovers at all. :O
Not going to lie though... if Darka and BoM get out of this unscathed I'll pretty pissed, especially Darka. Not because I want harm to Darka, but just because it wouldn't seem right for Eston to be the only victim of this war.
Anyways, looking forward is very interesting. The level of hegemony the Cagilans have now achieved on the island is unprecedented I think, even for them. All functioning resistance to their rule has been utterly shattered. And after the way this war has gone, I hardly think any of the Cagilan Bloc realms are going to be eager to start up the whole "Hey, let's band together to stop CE" train again any time soon.
Should be interesting things to see in the future.... or maybe just boring lol.
Only victim of this war? :D
Well, Darka and BoM have not lost any land, but you are now overlooking... Carelia, Hammarsett, Minas Ithil...
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on January 17, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Only victim of this war? :D
Well, Darka and BoM have not lost any land, but you are now overlooking... Carelia, Hammarsett, Minas Ithil...
-Jaune
Hammarsett was a completely different war that went on at the same time. Different casus belli, different primary participants (though many of the allies were the same.)
Minas Ithil was a completely different war as well, and primarily fought as a 1v1 civil war between Minas Ithil and Minas Leon (although Tara aided Minas Leon in the first couple weeks)
Carelia was the same war, but very much earlier. They were also the original aggressors. (even if they did have good casus belli)
While they may have had different causes, they all were tied together inseparably with the main war. It's not possible to pull them apart completely.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 02:00:41 PM
Hammarsett was a completely different war that went on at the same time. Different casus belli, different primary participants (though many of the allies were the same.)
Minas Ithil was a completely different war as well, and primarily fought as a 1v1 civil war between Minas Ithil and Minas Leon (although Tara aided Minas Leon in the first couple weeks)
Carelia was the same war, but very much earlier. They were also the original aggressors. (even if they did have good casus belli)
This, right here, is why we lost. That you would think of these as 'separate' wars is amazing to me.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 04:21:23 PM
This, right here, is why we lost. That you would think of these as 'separate' wars is amazing to me.
You lost because the North chose to make them separate wars.
I consider them separate wars because I play in Coria. Coria HAS to view them as separate wars due to the treaties that we are bound by, and by our current and past diplomacy. Coria's surrender to Eston ended Coria's participating in the main war. Coria's subsequent treaty + border agreement bound Coria to not fight Eston or for Coria to join with its allies in fighting the war through Eston lands.
For all intents and purposes Coria has not been a participant in the "main" war since that date. Hammarsett however, chose to have Coria rejoin the war effort. But, since Coria was bound by treaty not to participate, they instead fought a separate war and conflict against Hammarsett with Hammarsett's primary ally being Minas Ithil.
If the North wanted to win, they would have not allowed Hammarsett to breach the agreement that kept Coria out of the conflict. Instead, Coria rejoin the conflict, destroyed a major northern alliance ally, and cornered Minas Ithil. (which quickly collapsed into civil war).
While yes they were tied together, the conflicts begun between different participants and were separated by different casus belli and intents. Just because the final alliances were the same does not mean they are the same war. (This is why Coria is not a participating member in the discussions for Eston's surrender terms to CE.)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 04:34:10 PM
You lost because the North chose to make them separate wars.
I consider them separate wars because I play in Coria. Coria HAS to view them as separate wars due to the treaties that we are bound by, and by our current and past diplomacy. Coria's surrender to Eston ended Coria's participating in the main war. Coria's subsequent treaty + border agreement bound Coria to not fight Eston or for Coria to join with its allies in fighting the war through Eston lands.
For all intents and purposes Coria has not been a participant in the "main" war since that date. Hammarsett however, chose to have Coria rejoin the war effort. But, since Coria was bound by treaty not to participate, they instead fought a separate war and conflict against Hammarsett with Hammarsett's primary ally being Minas Ithil.
If the North wanted to win, they would have not allowed Hammarsett to breach the agreement that kept Coria out of the conflict. Instead, Coria rejoin the conflict, destroyed a major northern alliance ally, and cornered Minas Ithil. (which quickly collapsed into civil war).
While yes they were tied together, the conflicts begun between different participants and were separated by different casus belli and intents. Just because the final alliances were the same does not mean they are the same war. (This is why Coria is not a participating member in the discussions for Eston's surrender terms to CE.)
Three things.
One: Minas Ithil only joined the war BECAUSE we went back to war with Coria. No war with Coria, no Minas Ithil.
Two: At the time, Saeculo was obviously looking to get Coria back into the war surreptitiously in such a way that Coria wouldn't be at direct risk. As evidence consider his laughably ham-fisted attempt to send an army south to "visit relatives" on the Carelian border.
Three: Half the reason we went back to war with Coria is because we were getting nowhere on the western front. We thought a second front that pulled Tara, in particular, away from Cantril might allow for some progress on that front.
Too bad we were wrong. In truth the balance of forces was against us from the time that Carelia started losing and Caergoth and Suville exited the war. I suppose if Hammarsett had never declared war again on Coria we might have extended the stalemate on the western front, maybe even indefinitely, but now we'll never know. It was obvious that we weren't ever going to win the way things were going at the time, so we took a risk, one that initially seemed quite promising I might add. I never regarded the wars as separate, and neither I imagine did most of the northern allies. Our total lack of progress on one front is what suggested the idea of opening a second in hopes of making it into a war of movement again. Eston's narrow and provincial view of the conflict played a significant role in the course of the war, one that was highly detrimental in my opinion.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 05:05:25 PM
One: Minas Ithil only joined the war BECAUSE we went back to war with Coria. No war with Coria, no Minas Ithil.
Of course. Which is why I stated they were Hammarsett's primary allies.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 05:05:25 PM
Two: At the time, Saeculo was obviously looking to get Coria back into the war surreptitiously in such a way that Coria wouldn't be at direct risk. As evidence consider his laughably ham-fisted attempt to send an army south to "visit relatives" on the Carelian border.
Of course. We wanted to fight, but stick to our treaties (unlike the North).
So we looked south for conflict. Makes sense to me, and Carelia was pretty much out of the war at that point.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 05:05:25 PM
I never regarded the wars as separate, and neither I imagine did most of the northern allies. Our total lack of progress on one front is what suggested the idea of opening a second in hopes of making it into a war of movement again.
THIS is the problem. This is the reason that Hammarsett had such terrible casus belli, and why Coria had to exact huge revenge on them for the action. You forced a war that you had no real reason to fight. Coria can't allow actions to stand when the reason for war given is essentially "We want to refound a realm in your lands that would see your eventual destruction."
If you want to rejoin the war with Coria, you should have just neutralized the treaty between Estona nd Coria and attacked us straight on. Actually you should have neutralized the war with Darka and Talerium as well and just opened up a huge front.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 05:24:22 PM
THIS is the problem. This is the reason that Hammarsett had such terrible casus belli, and why Coria had to exact huge revenge on them for the action. You forced a war that you had no real reason to fight. Coria can't allow actions to stand when the reason for war given is essentially "We want to refound a realm in your lands that would see your eventual destruction."
Why is 'THIS' the problem? These factors only came into play because we lost. They were entirely irrelevant to the decision to go to war. We did have a reason to fight - the one I just gave you about opening a second front. Big picture, not small ball. If more people in the Northern Alliance had viewed the war this objectively we might have won. It was narrow thought processes like yours that handicapped realms like Darka and Eston and limited their impact on the war. They let their own interests trump the greater good and lost sight of the bigger picture. Hammarsett on the other hand did what it did because we thought it was the best chance to turn the larger war around, not because it was good for us. I won't deny that potential territorial gain would have been good for us, but it's not what drove the decision-making process. I could easily have played it safe and virtually guaranteed our survival by sticking with the status quo at the time: Peace with Coria, tacit agreements with Tara. Personally, I am extremely glad I didn't do that regardless of the outcome. One, I think it
was our best remaining chance to turn the war around. Two, I am willing to bet that all the players in Hammarsett, Tara, Coria and MI (at a minimum) had a hell of a lot more fun this way than if we'd aimed for and achieved an endless stalemate over Cantril.
Detente is bad for the game.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 05:24:22 PM
If you want to rejoin the war with Coria, you should have just neutralized the treaty between Estona nd Coria and attacked us straight on. Actually you should have neutralized the war with Darka and Talerium as well and just opened up a huge front.
I absolutely agree with you, 100%.
Unfortunately, that would have required both Eston and Darka's agreement, which didn't happen. Eston consistently acted only within their own narrow interests, one of which was sticking to that agreement with Coria despite the detrimental effect it had on their allies and the larger war. Darka on the other hand was kneecapped by Kostaja's stubbornness. I think I read somewhere that even his own councilors argued for attacking Talerium at one point, but he wouldn't accept their arguments, let alone those of his fellow rulers. For his part, Kerwin severely compromised his own ability to convince Darka to do any such thing when he made that separate peace with Coria. With that precedent set, what incentive did Darka have to stick their necks out?
You can argue with my strategic evaluation of the situation if you want to, but that's what drove Hammarsett's actions. As for you, if you're so convinced that Hammarsett's choices were a disaster, explain to me what the better course would have been, taking into consideration that:
1. Eston would never cancel it's treaty with Coria.
2. Darka would never agree to attack Talerium.
Something first: My opinions as a player on an OOC level differ *drastically* from the IC opinions of my character as a Duke/Ruler/General of Coria during these times. Most of the answers from my previous post are based upon the IC perceptions of my character. If I look objectively at how I'd win the war from an OOC basis that will change my thoughts. I'll respond the rest of this post with my OOC opinions.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 06:31:38 PM
Two, I am willing to bet that all the players in Hammarsett, Tara, Coria and MI (at a minimum) had a hell of a lot more fun this way than if we'd aimed for and achieved an endless stalemate over Cantril.
I agree with this. But as I said above, character action and player fun shouldn't necessarily always be linked. Although in some cases its important. If I favored player fun purely over IC RP'ed actions, then I would have had Coria attack CE long ago. However, I have to play my character, not as a player.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 06:31:38 PM
Detente is bad for the game.
Agreed. But again, that's my OOC opinion. Most of my actions for any character are based solely upon what I know IC. I think an issue was that much of the basis for the original war (when Carelia started it) was an OOC understanding that it was now or never against CE.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 06:31:38 PM
You can argue with my strategic evaluation of the situation if you want to, but that's what drove Hammarsett's actions. As for you, if you're so convinced that Hammarsett's choices were a disaster, explain to me what the better course would have been, taking into consideration that:
1. Eston would never cancel it's treaty with Coria.
2. Darka would never agree to attack Talerium.
Okay, assuming that I have the power in game to control the actions of the Northern Alliance this is what I'd do under your given restrictions.
1. Don't attack Coria, and let Coria's agreement with Eston force the war to be a standoff at Cantril.
2. Negotiate peace with CE on neutral terms. (I believe that this would have been possible since it was just a standoff for real life months.)
3. Bide your time, and watch the diplomacy of the south. Nudge diplomacy into a war between Suville, Strombran, Caergoth, and Carelia. (with possible participation from CE and/or Tara)
4. The above conflict would have placed Tara and CE on opposing sides. Use that to drive a wedge in the CE, Tara alliance.
5. Ally the north with Coria (which was very possible under former conditions, a lot more difficult now)
6. Along with Coria attack south with the unified north while CE and Tara are split. However, don't attack both of them. Focus on war, and make it clear your intentions in the war. Not just "reduce the power of CE, or destroy CE". Attack either CE or Tara, while all of their allies are distracted. Tara would be easier, but CE would be just as susceptible.
7. Try and break the federation permanently by offering the other side an alliance in return for very favorable terms in whatever area of the map that they want.
That is how you beat CE. However, it all falls apart because I made the simple assumption I could unify the north's opinion. But if the north wanted to win, that's what they do. You don't just attack "CE's powerbase" with nameless intentions because that will provoke a huge backlash.
Perhaps just claim a single duchy (and state that at the beginning of the war), or something. That way they know what happens if they surrender. You can only afford to not make terms if you're like CE and can enforce whatever you want.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 07:09:33 PM
Okay, assuming that I have the power in game to control the actions of the Northern Alliance this is what I'd do under your given restrictions.
1. Don't attack Coria, and let Coria's agreement with Eston force the war to be a standoff at Cantril.
2. Negotiate peace with CE on neutral terms. (I believe that this would have been possible since it was just a standoff for real life months.)
3. Bide your time, and watch the diplomacy of the south. Nudge diplomacy into a war between Suville, Strombran, Caergoth, and Carelia. (with possible participation from CE and/or Tara)
4. The above conflict would have placed Tara and CE on opposing sides. Use that to drive a wedge in the CE, Tara alliance.
5. Ally the north with Coria (which was very possible under former conditions, a lot more difficult now)
6. Along with Coria attack south with the unified north while CE and Tara are split. However, don't attack both of them. Focus on war, and make it clear your intentions in the war. Not just "reduce the power of CE, or destroy CE". Attack either CE or Tara, while all of their allies are distracted. Tara would be easier, but CE would be just as susceptible.
7. Try and break the federation permanently by offering the other side an alliance in return for very favorable terms in whatever area of the map that they want.
That is how you beat CE. However, it all falls apart because I made the simple assumption I could unify the north's opinion. But if the north wanted to win, that's what they do. You don't just attack "CE's powerbase" with nameless intentions because that will provoke a huge backlash.
Perhaps just claim a single duchy (and state that at the beginning of the war), or something. That way they know what happens if they surrender. You can only afford to not make terms if you're like CE and can enforce whatever you want.
Cogent and well reasoned. It's a good plan, though it could fall apart in any number of places even if you did manage to achieve unity in the north.
Unfortunately, the necessary political preconditions for this plan were not all in place at the time I made my decision. It's hard for me to remember exactly what was going on down south at the time, but Carelia was still alive and kicking (albeit definitely losing), Strombran had not yet been founded, and Caergoth was still in one piece if I recall correctly. Even if you advance the timeline in the south somewhat, I'm certain that most of the pieces you're playing with were not available.
Basically, it's easy to see all the parts necessary to your plan now. Back then, they mostly didn't exist. By the time they emerged from the fog of war, the die was already cast.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 07:23:29 PM
Cogent and well reasoned. It's a good plan, though it could fall apart in any number of places even if you did manage to achieve unity in the north.
Unfortunately, the necessary political preconditions for this plan were not all in place at the time I made my decision. It's hard for me to remember exactly what was going on down south at the time, but Carelia was still alive and kicking (albeit definitely losing), Strombran had not yet been founded, and Caergoth was still in one piece if I recall correctly. Even if you advance the timeline in the south somewhat, I'm certain that most of the pieces you're playing with were not available.
Basically, it's easy to see all the parts necessary to your plan now. Back then, they mostly didn't exist. By the time they emerged from the fog of war, the die was already cast.
Any good plan can fall apart. They're only useful before the first battle begins.
However, much of the political situations needed to make such a plan successful were there. They were just hidden under the surface. You had to be a part of the CE alliance in order to see where the cracks were. My character knew about them, and made plans to use them if Coria was ever threatened.
King Kerwin was made aware of the cracks by my character which allowed him to trust Coria more. That's one of the reasons Coria and Eston grew closer together.
Its all irrelevant now. This plan wouldn't work anymore. Other plans would, but of course I can't reveal plans that would actually work, because then they wouldn't.
As to your point about preconditions. All of the preconditions that were *necessary* were available at the time when Merlin contacted the leaders of the Northern Alliance. Not all of the preconditions that would have been *wanted* were available, but the necessary ones were. That of course fell through. But hey, I'm playing a happy duke of a strong city.
Eston's refusal to attack/betray Coria may however save/aid them in the future. Eston is not dead (and won't be) so only time will tell. But they have shown to be honourable and to honour their deals. They may very well outlive Darka and BoM.
Quote from: Quintus Ennius on January 17, 2013, 08:02:34 PM
Eston's refusal to attack/betray Coria may however save/aid them in the future. Eston is not dead (and won't be) so only time will tell. But they have shown to be honourable and to honour their deals. They may very well outlive Darka and BoM.
This is also an important point.
Eston secured for themselves a strong potential ally in Coria. (Who is now stronger than Eston itself). Coria is also within the CE alliance, so while they aren't directly part of the terms discussion, they can advocate on behalf of Eston.
Well, when war began, south was with us. Tara was claiming to be only defencive... things blew up when Eston signed peace with Coria and south betrayed alliance. Until that, it was nice and good(Except other than Carelia, southern participation to war was pretty much just on the paper).
-KK
Quote from: Perth on January 17, 2013, 09:17:34 AM
Not going to lie though... if Darka and BoM get out of this unscathed I'll pretty pissed, especially Darka. Not because I want harm to Darka, but just because it wouldn't seem right for Eston to be the only victim of this war.
Stay tuned.... the war isn't over yet
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 05:24:22 PMOf course. We wanted to fight, but stick to our treaties (unlike the North).
So we looked south for conflict. Makes sense to me, and Carelia was pretty much out of the war at that point.
Which was a violation of your treaty. Coria was treaty-bound to NOT interfere in the war. Sending troops south under such a flimsy excuse (visiting family or some such) was a violation of your treaty. However yous pin it, that act broke the treaty.
QuoteIf you want to rejoin the war with Coria, you should have just neutralized the treaty between Estona nd Coria and attacked us straight on. Actually you should have neutralized the war with Darka and Talerium as well and just opened up a huge front.
Both of which were impossible. Neither Eston nor Coria were going to to break their treaty. Neither were Darka or Talerium.
IMNSHO, the turning point of the war *should* have been the destruction of Coria. We were poised to do it, when Eston gave the entire NA the finger, and signed that damned treaty. Eston would have looked mighty nice with another monster duchy, and Hammarpeeps with another duchy of their own.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 06:31:38 PMDarka on the other hand was kneecapped by Kostaja's stubbornness. I think I read somewhere that even his own councilors argued for attacking Talerium at one point, but he wouldn't accept their arguments, let alone those of his fellow rulers. For his part, Kerwin severely compromised his own ability to convince Darka to do any such thing when he made that separate peace with Coria. With that precedent set, what incentive did Darka have to stick their necks out?
That was me. Kende put forth plans to crush Talerium, and start sacking CE cities. That was back when Darka was routinely marching with 25K, and we could have hit 35-40K if we *really* stretched it. We could have timed it with a massiv Eston army, and perhaps help from Hammarpeeps and BoM, too. We could have smashed through Talerium and done massive damage to CE, with good timing.
Alas, KK didn't let me even mention it to Eston...
There was a time when KK was on the verge of abdicating, to let someone else do it. Various people in Darka convinced him to keep the throne, and uphold the treaties. That may help us now, having kept to all of our agreements as closely as we could. We shall see.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 07:09:33 PM
I agree with this. But as I said above, character action and player fun shouldn't necessarily always be linked. Although in some cases its important. If I favored player fun purely over IC RP'ed actions, then I would have had Coria attack CE long ago. However, I have to play my character, not as a player.
I honestly think this is one reason why we lose players over the years. if you're putting character action over player fun, then you aren't playing this as a game, which is what it is first and foremost.
Quote from: Quintus Ennius on January 17, 2013, 08:02:34 PM
Eston's refusal to attack/betray Coria may however save/aid them in the future. Eston is not dead (and won't be) so only time will tell. But they have shown to be honourable and to honour their deals. They may very well outlive Darka and BoM.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 08:09:19 PM
This is also an important point.
Eston secured for themselves a strong potential ally in Coria. (Who is now stronger than Eston itself). Coria is also within the CE alliance, so while they aren't directly part of the terms discussion, they can advocate on behalf of Eston.
Which only goes to prove my point about their "narrow, provincial" view of the conflict. Eston always came first. The treaty with Coria was a way to hedge their risk at the expense of their allies, and never mind the fact that it was also essentially a self-fulfilling bet that the NA was going to lose.
Quote from: Indirik on January 17, 2013, 10:01:25 PM
There was a time when KK was on the verge of abdicating, to let someone else do it. Various people in Darka convinced him to keep the throne, and uphold the treaties. That may help us now, having kept to all of our agreements as closely as we could. We shall see.
If he were still around, Laszlo would hope Talerium looks the other way while the Empire & Co. teach Darka a harsh lesson about starting a war without being willing to do everything in their power to win it.
Too many fluffy bunny huggers in the NA. Not enough will to win at any cost.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 07:37:31 PM
However, much of the political situations needed to make such a plan successful were there. They were just hidden under the surface. You had to be a part of the CE alliance in order to see where the cracks were. My character knew about them, and made plans to use them if Coria was ever threatened.
Which made them operationally useless and irrelevant to my decision-making.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 07:37:31 PM
King Kerwin was made aware of the cracks by my character which allowed him to trust Coria more. That's one of the reasons Coria and Eston grew closer together.
And since he never shared or (to my knowledge) acted on that information, see above.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 07:37:31 PM
As to your point about preconditions. All of the preconditions that were *necessary* were available at the time when Merlin contacted the leaders of the Northern Alliance. Not all of the preconditions that would have been *wanted* were available, but the necessary ones were. That of course fell through. But hey, I'm playing a happy duke of a strong city.
Again, by the time Merlin made his offer, Hammarsett and Coria were already back at war. You have criticized Hammarsett's actions on the basis of events that happened after the fact, and you are Monday morning quarterbacking with the benefit of information we didn't have at the time. Nothing you have said points to a better course for Hammarsett or the Northern Alliance as a whole at the time given the information that we had and given the self-imposed restraints on Eston and Darka.
Quote from: Indirik on January 17, 2013, 09:57:40 PM
Which was a violation of your treaty. Coria was treaty-bound to NOT interfere in the war. Sending troops south under such a flimsy excuse (visiting family or some such) was a violation of your treaty. However yous pin it, that act broke the treaty.
We were treaty bound not to engage in the north. We were not treaty bound in any manner for the south. We were very careful about that.
We broke no treaty by engaging Carelia. Plus, our engagement with Carelia would have been because they sent troops north to fight us shortly beforehand.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on January 17, 2013, 10:12:21 PM
I honestly think this is one reason why we lose players over the years. if you're putting character action over player fun, then you aren't playing this as a game, which is what it is first and foremost.
This game is at least in part a roleplaying game. We're supposed to roleplay our characters. We're not playing a metagame where we do everything possible to win. If it was, then the game would be completely different and the dynamics would be completely different. Realms couldn't even operate as a team because everyone would want to be ruler. However, if you're roleplaying a character you're able to actually have a fully functioning realm.
Yes this is a game, but its not a pure strategy game. As a ruler or council member in a realm it is your responsibility as provided by the game to ensure (ability for) players to have fun. However, not every character is bound by that.
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Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 10:56:48 PM
Which made them operationally useless and irrelevant to my decision-making.
And since he never shared or (to my knowledge) acted on that information, see above.
Again, by the time Merlin made his offer, Hammarsett and Coria were already back at war. You have criticized Hammarsett's actions on the basis of events that happened after the fact, and you are Monday morning quarterbacking with the benefit of information we didn't have at the time. Nothing you have said points to a better course for Hammarsett or the Northern Alliance as a whole at the time given the information that we had and given the self-imposed restraints on Eston and Darka.
The only thing relevant to your decision making to know what was the best decision was that you were in a perpetual stalemate with little viable way of breaking it. You should have made peace even without access to any of the information I had. I was also referencing a different issue and a different time when Merlin made his offer. Of your three options, you could either make peace, fight a stalemate, or attack Coria. You chose to attack Coria which is fine, but since no one wants to fight a stalemate, I'd have chosen to make peace. Even assuming I didn't know any of this information.
The northern war was lost once the southern war collapsed.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 10:57:35 PM
We were treaty bound not to engage in the north. We were not treaty bound in any manner for the south. We were very careful about that.
We broke no treaty by engaging Carelia. Plus, our engagement with Carelia would have been because they sent troops north to fight us shortly beforehand.
If you were within your rights, then why the excuses? Coria sure went to some lengths to try to pass off what they were doing as anything but engaging Carelia... The excuse Saeculo came up with was epic for its complete absurdity.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 10:57:35 PM
This game is at least in part a roleplaying game. We're supposed to roleplay our characters. We're not playing a metagame where we do everything possible to win. If it was, then the game would be completely different and the dynamics would be completely different. Realms couldn't even operate as a team because everyone would want to be ruler. However, if you're roleplaying a character you're able to actually have a fully functioning realm.
Yes this is a game, but its not a pure strategy game. As a ruler or council member in a realm it is your responsibility as provided by the game to ensure (ability for) players to have fun. However, not every character is bound by that.
I think you misunderstood me. I never said anything about winning, or that I equated that with fun. I was speaking of fun in general, so please don't put words into my mouth that I never said. I know it is a roleplaying game, not a pure strategy game.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on January 17, 2013, 11:06:22 PM
I think you misunderstood me. I never said anything about winning, or that I equated that with fun. I was speaking of fun in general, so please don't put words into my mouth that I never said. I know it is a roleplaying game, not a pure strategy game.
Exactly, characters with high influence in the realm, often the ruler but not always, are choosing what their character would do over what's fun for everybody which just kills. Role play is great but when your making choices that affect long term fun, role play should be a lower priority than fun regardless of your position.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 17, 2013, 10:57:35 PM
The only thing relevant to your decision making to know what was the best decision was that you were in a perpetual stalemate with little viable way of breaking it. You should have made peace even without access to any of the information I had. I was also referencing a different issue and a different time when Merlin made his offer. Of your three options, you could either make peace, fight a stalemate, or attack Coria. You chose to attack Coria which is fine, but since no one wants to fight a stalemate, I'd have chosen to make peace. Even assuming I didn't know any of this information.
The northern war was lost once the southern war collapsed.
Your analysis is accurate as far as it goes, but the problem is that it has the benefit of hindsight and it seems to me that your memory about the sequence of events at the time is hazy at best, though I suppose I could be the one who's wrong on the particulars.
At the time in question the stalemate didn't appear to be perpetual, and Carelia hadn't yet collapsed. Half the rationale for what was done was to get Tara off the western front so that the pressure on the Empire from that side could be increased and possibly help Carelia catch its breath. Obviously that's not how it worked out, but at the time we still thought there was a chance that we could turn things around and break the stalemate in our favor
with Carelia's help. As for Merlin's offer, I don't recall ever hearing anything about it, so again, irrelevant to Hammarsett's decision making.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 11:05:21 PM
If you were within your rights, then why the excuses? Coria sure went to some lengths to try to pass off what they were doing as anything but engaging Carelia... The excuse Saeculo came up with was epic for its complete absurdity.
There IS a reason he eventually lost his position and was replaced.
Quote from: Geronus on January 17, 2013, 11:16:07 PM
Your analysis is accurate as far as it goes, but the problem is that it has the benefit of hindsight and it seems to me that your memory about the sequence of events at the time is hazy at best, though I suppose I could be the one who's wrong on the particulars.
At the time in question the stalemate didn't appear to be perpetual, and Carelia hadn't yet collapsed. Half the rationale for what was done was to get Tara off the western front so that the pressure on the Empire from that side could be increased and possibly help Carelia catch its breath. Obviously that's not how it worked out, but at the time we still thought there was a chance that we could turn things around and break the stalemate in our favor with Carelia's help. As for Merlin's offer, I don't recall ever hearing anything about it, so again, irrelevant to Hammarsett's decision making.
Well I think we've talked this in circles enough. Let's just agree that decisions were made, and the one that was chosen didn't work out well for the north.
Quote from: Penchant on January 17, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Exactly, characters with high influence in the realm, often the ruler but not always, are choosing what their character would do over what's fun for everybody which just kills. Role play is great but when your making choices that affect long term fun, role play should be a lower priority than fun regardless of your position.
I'd love to hear suggestions on how to fix this without essentially just making it a meta game all the time.
Quote from: Penchant on January 17, 2013, 11:10:23 PM
Exactly, characters with high influence in the realm, often the ruler but not always, are choosing what their character would do over what's fun for everybody which just kills. Role play is great but when your making choices that affect long term fun, role play should be a lower priority than fun regardless of your position.
Of course if something is fun for
everybody, then you should do it. However, I think you underestimate one big aspect: consistent character roleplay is a big part of the fun in BM.
When I see a character take an action that is contrary to everything they've shown before for obviously OOC consideration, then
I'm not having fun, whether this leads to a war or not.
Quote from: vonGenf on January 18, 2013, 12:09:39 AM
Of course if something is fun for everybody, then you should do it. However, I think you underestimate one big aspect: consistent character roleplay is a big part of the fun in BM.
When I see a character take an action that is contrary to everything they've shown before for obviously OOC consideration, then I'm not having fun, whether this leads to a war or not.
That's kind of my point.
I mean I took actions with my character Brom that specifically screwed him over, because its what his character would do. My actions with Merlin are all in line with someone who is a greedy ambitious arrogant Duke who wants power.
Wow, this exploded...
As I see it, there was nothing wrong with Hammarsett's decision to attack Coria. We have the luxury of being the winners who can forget and have been able to repair, but we really were hurting for a time. In the same situation that the North was in and with the known restrictions of treaties not being broken, it was definitely one of the better possibilities, especially considering that at the time, the North regarded Coria as an extension of the CE. (We're still seen that way now to some degree, but at least they know that the words in our mouths are our own.) Hammarsett honestly did have the potential to win it, but they just kept pressing on and looting instead of holding down regions at a time. When our side pushed in, we rarely had the strength to capture more than one region for quite some time. Darka, Hammarsett and MI all just kept walking through and trying to drive our regions rogue. Honestly, if I knew that the diplomatic status of "Hated" was reversible sooner, I might've conceded to the North under light terms, which they would've likely used to fight Tara directly.
Trying to isolate why the North lost from the perspective of the South doesn't really make so much sense. Saying that someone's reason for war was weak also has little to do with the actual capability to win said war. (I could say I'm waging war on Tara for that huge list of reasons we'd been throwing around, but realistically, we couldn't have won without some form of backup. Similarly, we could probably win a war against, say, Caergoth right now... but... why would we bother?) From having characters on both sides, I'd personally say the more likely reasons are tied to military mismanagement, huge refit times and the glaring problems with the South's withdraw. I know for a fact that the North just isn't as good at coordinating their armies. We lost that huge fight in Eston because Darka's army was using completely different settings than either BoM or Eston. This kind of thing happened several times throughout the entire war. In fact, it's always seemed to be an issue plaguing the Barony's already small forces (though it's been rekindled recently)... Even back when it was Norland and BoM vs. MI, Norland would often cancel orders late and let the Barony march in solo. I made the opposite mistake when I tried to help MI vs. ML... I sent orders too soon after misreading a message. Honestly, it can't be that surprising that forces marching in a cohesive group should win over a mix of armies that trip on their own shoelaces. Add to that the fact that any time someone messed up a battle, at least two armies would take a full week to return to the front and you've got an obvious winner.
In my opinion, the North needed the South so they could overcome their propensity for mistakes... that is, the North needed insurance against themselves.
As far as the roleplaying debate, wouldn't that be worth making a new topic? Maybe in the General Discussion area. I know it would get heated, but it's a serious topic and if it is partially responsible for why BM's growth is slow (if it is growing at all), it should certainly be addressed.
In my mind, part of the allure of BM has always been that the role-playing is what makes it fun. The battles and medieval content are the primary tools of bringing about that RP, but it makes your heart beat when you know OOC that what you are about to do is absolutely stupid or evil and yet it makes total sense IC.
Not to be overly poetic, but we're all authors contributing to an epic story that nobody has full control over. In fact, just about all we can agree upon is that the story should be set in a medieval world and should be violent. Hell, if you were able to compile all of the work on this game (letters, the wiki, battles, maps... everything IC) and do some formatting to put it in book format, we might have one of the most impressive fantasy works of all time. We might not have invented a language like Tolkien, but we've created a multitude of religions.
Why do you partake in a story (a move, a book, what have you) if you know that the characters within have other, probably better, options for them? Because sometimes it's fun to not have control. Because it's fun to see how a situation would play out if you didn't know better. Of course, fun is also subjective and you may not agree in every situation. (For example, some people like Twilight, perhaps because they find "teenage love under unusual circumstances" interesting [and by extension, fun]... I can't even pretend to care [I tried once].)
I think it would be a little far off to say high-ranking characters more often stick to their character concept than do something that breaks character to provide a wider opportunity for fun, but I don't doubt it happens. Instead, think of this: Every character in a story has a purpose, small or large, whether you like them or not. Many people hated Snape in Harry Potter and questioned why he wasn't killed until the series of reveals... now you'd have a hard time arguing someone should've just dealt with him earlier. If Dumbledore had broken character and let Snape get killed just so JK Rowling could appease readers early on, the books would have been entirely different.
The cool thing about our game is that we can give those characters a hard time with our own characters. It's those interactions that should be making this game fun. If everyone simply abandoned their character's style for "the sake of fun", I would expect less and less emphasis on providing some form of RP or rationale to fight someone... and then the point of fighting is lost as well. It's not like BM is fast-paced or uses superior graphics that make battles interesting in and of themselves; I would argue, at least, that the strategy and conditions around those battles are what really matter. As a result, those with the power to provide options for fun are challenged to do so both through RP and wars.
Quote from: vonGenf on January 18, 2013, 12:09:39 AM
Of course if something is fun for everybody, then you should do it. However, I think you underestimate one big aspect: consistent character roleplay is a big part of the fun in BM.
When I see a character take an action that is contrary to everything they've shown before for obviously OOC consideration, then I'm not having fun, whether this leads to a war or not.
And of course, while I'm typing that monster of a response, someone says pretty much what I meant to in many fewer words.
EDIT: Holy crap, that post was larger than I thought it was. Sorry!
I don't see much merit in this sort of user-driven storytelling. The game itself imposes needless constraints on what's possible, and the myriad of authors keeps everything discordant and simplistic. I play BM for the game aspects first and foremost, the roleplay aspect is just dressing.
Quote from: Kwanstein on January 18, 2013, 01:53:44 AM
I don't see much merit in this sort of user-driven storytelling. The game itself imposes needless constraints on what's possible, and the myriad of authors keeps everything discordant and simplistic. I play BM for the game aspects first and foremost, the roleplay aspect is just dressing.
Which, to me, is precisely why we should have a dedicated topic on this, perhaps with a poll. Whether or not one person sees merit in it, someone else may think the opposite way. Maybe with a concerted effort on finding where players derive their fun would help to find a medium?
Kwanstein, perhaps you can further describe what you would prefer?
I'd love to see this go on the wiki so the history isn't lost.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 18, 2013, 02:24:18 AM
Kwanstein, perhaps you can further describe what you would prefer?
A novel is the highest mode of conveying a story, as the author of a novel has unlimited control over what he/she creates, as well as huge amounts of potential in terms of creativity and complexity. Movies and games both have their niches; both allow for audio and visuals, and games provide a means of interacting with the audience. However they are both inferior modes, as they are constrained in many ways, the most important of which is by the resources required to utilize them.
Quote from: Azerax on January 18, 2013, 03:01:50 AM
I'd love to see this go on the wiki so the history isn't lost.
What is "this"?
But yes this thread has a lot of great history.
Quote from: Kwanstein on January 18, 2013, 03:12:23 AM
A novel is the highest mode of conveying a story, as the author of a novel has unlimited control over what he/she creates, as well as huge amounts of potential in terms of creativity and complexity. Movies and games both have their niches; both allow for audio and visuals, and games provide a means of interacting with the audience. However they are both inferior modes, as they are constrained in many ways, the most important of which is by the resources required to utilize them.
I'd accept that definition/description, but I'm not sure how it relates to our discussion. If the creators of BattleMaster had defined an actual story to be conveyed, perhaps I could see where you're going, but my point was much more related to the idea that BattleMaster forms a world of its own comprised of multiple stories. These stories, in turn, make the game enjoyable and are enhanced by the dynamic and varied characters we, as players, bring to the game.
I don't mean to convey, at all, that any one player would particularly desire to see the whole thing, beginning to end or that any character is required for the game to exist or be enjoyable. The idea of characters as having their own motivations that may be contrary to OOC considerations, however, I believe is integral to BattleMaster being enjoyable.
Seeing the whole deal wrapped up in book format would be pretty cool, though.
Quote from: Kwanstein on January 18, 2013, 03:12:23 AM
A novel is the highest mode of conveying a story, as the author of a novel has unlimited control over what he/she creates, as well as huge amounts of potential in terms of creativity and complexity. Movies and games both have their niches; both allow for audio and visuals, and games provide a means of interacting with the audience. However they are both inferior modes, as they are constrained in many ways, the most important of which is by the resources required to utilize them.
I really, really hate it when people use the word "inferior" when describing games and movies. That's just a smug, patronizing (not to mention in many ways outdated) outlook and in some cases just plain wrong. I certainly don't see very many books that spawn orchestral concerts, unlike certain games.
The way I view it, every medium brings its own pluses and minuses. For a book, that would be for the most part the freedom of the author to create his book's universe the way he wants (please note, there are publishers in the book world, so it isn't complete freedom). It also has the length to in many ways flesh out the story and characters fully. However, this can lead to confusion for the reader if the author is too vague about certain aspects of the story, as he may already know about the background fully, while the readers don't.
Games can bring you the length and the depth of a book, sometimes even more, while allowing you to take part in the story itself. However, if the game mechanics are poor, this can distract from the story too much. There is more variety in depth in games, some having layers and layers of story and backstory, while others are just given a vague concept so that you have a reason to do what you're doing. Some have none.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 18, 2013, 12:06:22 AM
There IS a reason he eventually lost his position and was replaced.
Yes. And that was because I, as a player, went travelling around South-East Asia for four months and paused my characters. To suggest Saeculo 'lost his position and was replaced' for trying to justify an excursion down South is ludicris at best. If I hadn't gone travelling, Saeculo would probably still be Consul right now.
I don't really recall the incident, but I believe the reasoning behind it is that you couldn't disprove it. No-one called Saeculo a liar at the time. If they had, he would have challanged them to a duel. Nobility didn't just accuse nobility of lying very lightly.
As a side note, I'm pretty sure this 'excuse' was talked about within the Senate, or at least with Merlin.
Besides, it was Hammarsett that broke their treaty with us, not the other way around. They did so by using our lands to attack Tara, we helped Tara and it was THIS that Hammarsett used as it's reasoning for War, not because Coria was marching South.
As an OOC note, I truly tried to play Saeculo as an honest and noble character, but the politics and bias was just unbelievable, and by the end Saeculo was getting fed up of trying for nothing.
Quote from: Munro on January 18, 2013, 04:24:41 AM
Yes. And that was because I, as a player, went travelling around South-East Asia for four months and paused my characters. To suggest Saeculo 'lost his position and was replaced' for trying to justify an excursion down South is ludicris at best. If I hadn't gone travelling, Saeculo would probably still be Consul right now.
I don't really recall the incident, but I believe the reasoning behind it is that you couldn't disprove it. No-one called Saeculo a liar at the time. If they had, he would have challanged them to a duel. Nobility didn't just accuse nobility of lying very lightly.
As a side note, I'm pretty sure this 'excuse' was talked about within the Senate, or at least with Merlin.
Besides, it was Hammarsett that broke their treaty with us, not the other way around. They did so by using our lands to attack Tara, we helped Tara and it was THIS that Hammarsett used as it's reasoning for War, not because Coria was marching South.
As an OOC note, I truly tried to play Saeculo as an honest and noble character, but the politics and bias was just unbelievable, and by the end Saeculo was getting fed up of trying for nothing.
Shhhh, they don't remember that.
I use this forum for propaganda. You're killing me. ;-)
You were Consul at the time so you knew what was going on much more than me. I'm sure you told me the reasons but I can't remember everything that happened so long ago.
I know I"m accurate on the excuse for going south though. I had one of the original ideas about it.
This is interesting, and it seems a lot of people have some animosity towards Kerwin for one reason or another. It is truly interesting both from a historical aspect of the game and also for me personally as a player because I honestly only ever made decisions that I thought would be best for Eston, the North, and our cause (for what it's worth).
I'm not going to do it now, but this tomorrow or this weekend I will post here a sizable summary of Kerwin's decisions during the war, why he made them, and why I as a player made them.
Quote from: Perth on January 18, 2013, 10:03:44 AM
I'm not going to do it now, but this tomorrow or this weekend I will post here a sizable summary of Kerwin's decisions during the war, why he made them, and why I as a player made them.
I think this would honestly be interesting if every war participant posted something similar at the very end of this war.
That sounds very interesting.
I might write up something myself. Relkin was King of Minas Ithil when this all started and though I paused him mid 2011, I can at least provide some context up until that point. As for Relkin, he's going down with the ship. He always was loyal to a fault. Besides, once Minas Ithil is gone, that is just as good a time as any to take a break from this continent.
Quote from: Perth on January 18, 2013, 10:03:44 AM
This is interesting, and it seems a lot of people have some animosity towards Kerwin for one reason or another. It is truly interesting both from a historical aspect of the game and also for me personally as a player because I honestly only ever made decisions that I thought would be best for Eston, the North, and our cause (for what it's worth).
I'm not going to do it now, but this tomorrow or this weekend I will post here a sizable summary of Kerwin's decisions during the war, why he made them, and why I as a player made them.
Nah mainly Ottar demanding it as the only Taran measure...
Quote from: Perth on January 18, 2013, 10:03:44 AM
This is interesting, and it seems a lot of people have some animosity towards Kerwin for one reason or another. It is truly interesting both from a historical aspect of the game and also for me personally as a player because I honestly only ever made decisions that I thought would be best for Eston, the North, and our cause (for what it's worth).
I'm not going to do it now, but this tomorrow or this weekend I will post here a sizable summary of Kerwin's decisions during the war, why he made them, and why I as a player made them.
I can summarize:
1. Kerwin asks the Council which option they want.
2. Council yells at him and rejects all ideas
3. Council tells him to attack allies
4. Kerwin calms them all down
5. Council votes on the issue
6. Kerwin proceeds with the agreed upon idea
7. Council yells at him for doing what they asked him to do.
This pretty much is what happened over the last 2.5 years.
Quote from: Munro on January 18, 2013, 04:24:41 AM
Yes. And that was because I, as a player, went travelling around South-East Asia for four months and paused my characters. To suggest Saeculo 'lost his position and was replaced' for trying to justify an excursion down South is ludicris at best. If I hadn't gone travelling, Saeculo would probably still be Consul right now.
I don't really recall the incident, but I believe the reasoning behind it is that you couldn't disprove it. No-one called Saeculo a liar at the time. If they had, he would have challanged them to a duel. Nobility didn't just accuse nobility of lying very lightly.
As a side note, I'm pretty sure this 'excuse' was talked about within the Senate, or at least with Merlin.
Besides, it was Hammarsett that broke their treaty with us, not the other way around. They did so by using our lands to attack Tara, we helped Tara and it was THIS that Hammarsett used as it's reasoning for War, not because Coria was marching South.
As an OOC note, I truly tried to play Saeculo as an honest and noble character, but the politics and bias was just unbelievable, and by the end Saeculo was getting fed up of trying for nothing.
The excuse was that you were sending an army south to "visit relatives". That is verbatim the language used (though of course you didn't call it an army).
As for Hammarsett, your shenanigans factored into the decision, even if I didn't cite it as the reason we declared war. In the end I didn't much care about our casus belli - honestly I don't even remember exactly what reason I gave. I had my reasons for going to war that were good enough for me, and that's all that mattered. My allies were behind me, so I didn't really feel that I had to justify myself to everyone else.
Quote from: Geronus on January 18, 2013, 02:29:58 PM
The excuse was that you were sending an army south to "visit relatives". That is verbatim the language used (though of course you didn't call it an army).
As for Hammarsett, your shenanigans factored into the decision, even if I didn't cite it as the reason we declared war. In the end I didn't much care about our casus belli - honestly I don't even remember exactly what reason I gave. I had my reasons for going to war that were good enough for me, and that's all that mattered. My allies were behind me, so I didn't really feel that I had to justify myself to everyone else.
Indeed, and after you attacked Coria twice by surprise, without previously declaring War, then we knew we could never trust Hammarsett ever again. At that point, Saeculo wouldn't rest until you were destroyed, which is a shame, as Coria helped to found and support Hammarsett in the early days, and you had a cool culture on our borders. As a player I didn't want it to happen, but obviously as a character I was delighted to see the downfall of Hammarsett.
Quote from: Azerax on January 18, 2013, 02:00:15 PM
I can summarize:
1. Kerwin asks the Council which option they want.
2. Council yells at him and rejects all ideas
3. Council tells him to attack allies
4. Kerwin calms them all down
5. Council votes on the issue
6. Kerwin proceeds with the agreed upon idea
7. Council yells at him for doing what they asked him to do.
This pretty much is what happened over the last 2.5 years.
8. The dissenters secede
Quote from: Azerax on January 18, 2013, 03:01:50 AM
I'd love to see this go on the wiki so the history isn't lost.
The Great Atamaran War (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/The_Great_Atamaran_War)
There's a bare bones wiki page set-up by Capet in 2011. I fleshed it out a little with bits I knew about the south and Carelia's involvement in the early part of the war, but I've been paused on Atamara for about 18 months now. It's kind of hazy and not at all up-to-date.
It would be cool if others could contribute or start updating realm histories. There's hardly anything on the wiki about what's been going on in Atamara these last few years. A real shame considering the whole war has generated so much interest here on the forum!
Quote from: Munro on January 18, 2013, 03:38:49 PM
Indeed, and after you attacked Coria twice by surprise, without previously declaring War, then we knew we could never trust Hammarsett ever again. At that point, Saeculo wouldn't rest until you were destroyed, which is a shame, as Coria helped to found and support Hammarsett in the early days, and you had a cool culture on our borders. As a player I didn't want it to happen, but obviously as a character I was delighted to see the downfall of Hammarsett.
Meh, I knew I was signing what could well be Hammarsett's death warrant at the time. I don't regret it, and you shouldn't either.
IC, Coria's bitterness is entirely understandable. We were not very good neighbors.
Quote from: Vellos on January 18, 2013, 03:47:11 PM
8. The dissenters secede
Small correction:
8. The dissenters, who demanded Kerwin attack Darka, secede, and among their reasons for succession was that Kerwin entertained the idea of attacking Darka.
Quote from: Azerax on January 18, 2013, 04:54:33 PM
Small correction:
8. The dissenters, who demanded Kerwin attack Darka, secede, and among their reasons for succession was that Kerwin entertained the idea of attacking Darka.
+1
And because he wouldn't step aside so another golden-oldier player with little IC interaction could become king again. Which was a particularly frustrating conversation.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 18, 2013, 10:06:25 AM
I think this would honestly be interesting if every war participant posted something similar at the very end of this war.
That sounds very interesting.
I concur. We really should all take a look at that wiki page and try to record what we can remember about the course of the war.
Quote from: Revan on January 18, 2013, 04:02:48 PM
The Great Atamaran War (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/The_Great_Atamaran_War)
There's a bare bones wiki page set-up by Capet in 2011. I fleshed it out a little with bits I knew about the south and Carelia's involvement in the early part of the war, but I've been paused on Atamara for about 18 months now. It's kind of hazy and not at all up-to-date.
It would be cool if others could contribute or start updating realm histories. There's hardly anything on the wiki about what's been going on in Atamara these last few years. A real shame considering the whole war has generated so much interest here on the forum!
Just a typo in your link: http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/The_Great_Atamaran_War
I added: Background (A Northern Perspective)
I'll keep adding to it when I have some more time. As you'll see, the reasons the war was started (Coira was bored and asked around for someone to attacked) is a bit different than what's there now). Let's try to capture all the perspectives.
I wrote the section for "The War in the North."
It should be accurate as far as high level summaries go. It is based on what I remember about the course of the conflict. I fought for Hammarsett during the entire duration of the war until Hammarsett's surrender. I leave it to others to document the inception of the war, as I was only Hammarsett's banker at the time and knew very little of the discussions between rulers.
Honestly.... Most of these post are tl:dr, and are not that relevant as the issues have repetitively come up over and over.
How about we talk about the destruction of Eston or the who's next?
Event about how the Central alliance have once again over come and are on a war path?
Is Darka shaking in it's boots? Is Kewin soon to be put to death by his own people? Does BoM and it's lich king await their doom with a smile?
I mean the North is running red is it not?
Quote from: Blue Star on January 20, 2013, 09:18:55 PM
I mean the North is running red is it not?
Colors are hard to see in the Barony with all the white.
Honestly, I think the upper half of Atamara is just waiting for Eston's terms to be given so there's at least some idea of how the map will have changed.
Quote from: Eirikr on January 20, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
Colors are hard to see in the Barony with all the white.
Honestly, I think the upper half of Atamara is just waiting for Eston's terms to be given so there's at least some idea of how the map will have changed.
You're assuming that with Eston's surrender this war ends?
Quote from: Quintus Ennius on January 20, 2013, 09:54:27 PM
You're assuming that with Eston's surrender this war ends?
He thinks Eston's terms will affect how the rest of the war goes.
Indeed, the Cagilans haven't even had the decency to acknowledge Eston's surrender. Hell, we should honestly be still trying to fight considering that, on a practical level, our surrender seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
Quote from: Penchant on January 20, 2013, 10:05:32 PM
He thinks Eston's terms will affect how the rest of the war goes.
Precisely. Quite honestly, my Barony Marshal has no idea what orders to give because marching into Eston is suicidal, but there aren't any troops on his doorstep yet. It's entirely possible that Sordnaz's plans will change depending on the terms Eston is given. Half the time, I've got no idea what that guy's thinking, but he has held on this long.
Quote from: Perth on January 20, 2013, 10:49:00 PM
Indeed, the Cagilans haven't even had the decency to acknowledge Eston's surrender. Hell, we should honestly be still trying to fight considering that, on a practical level, our surrender seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
Completely OOC, I think it's just bad timing. I think the player of Jason was away for the weekend. I'm willing to bet you'll get a reply tomorrow. IC, however, it's a total slap in the face to Eston and you should burn... uh... Sint for it. (Did I do that right?)
Quote from: Perth on January 20, 2013, 10:49:00 PM
Indeed, the Cagilans haven't even had the decency to acknowledge Eston's surrender. Hell, we should honestly be still trying to fight considering that, on a practical level, our surrender seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
QuoteOut-of-Character from Jason Elegant (10 hours, 5 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in message group "The Imperial Senate" (34 recipients)
Imperial Senate,
I am back, but I am too tired to type this. I was referee in karate championship 2013 on Saturday and Sunday and spent over 5 hours in flight. I will start sending letters from tomorrow night.
(see our website http://www.kyudokankarate.org/ and promotional video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTb4Qf-DKQU )
Wansu Seisan
The Cagilan armies at least have been ordered to withdraw. Be patient.
As to the rest, I'm sure both Darka and BoM are waiting with bated breath to see what terms are offered to Eston. Doubtless both of those realms will be hoping to divine what sort of terms they can come to expect should they too decide to sue for peace.
Yeah, would be nice to hear/see what sort of terms Eston will get. Since CE & Co. has not said a thing about what they want from this war.
All Darka can do now is to wait and prepare. We have had few new nobles and hopefully more to come. But i still think it wont be too long war incase CE & Co sent all they can... it would be horrible army and cant be stopped no matter how much gold Darka has unless they divide it too much :P
Just for looking military graphs... CE 64k, Suville 54+K, Tara 31K, Coria 32K, Strombran 12K, Caergoth 21K....
These are the realms we are pretty sure are looking for knocking our doors, ofcourse Rielston, Minas Leon or even Talerium and Carelia can join...
Lets first mentioned realms can pull out even half of their strenght against us... it would mean over 100K CS army :P
Quote from: jaune on January 21, 2013, 09:19:19 AM
Yeah, would be nice to hear/see what sort of terms Eston will get. Since CE & Co. has not said a thing about what they want from this war.
All Darka can do now is to wait and prepare. We have had few new nobles and hopefully more to come. But i still think it wont be too long war incase CE & Co sent all they can... it would be horrible army and cant be stopped no matter how much gold Darka has unless they divide it too much :P
Just for looking military graphs... CE 64k, Suville 54+K, Tara 31K, Coria 32K, Strombran 12K, Caergoth 21K....
These are the realms we are pretty sure are looking for knocking our doors, ofcourse Rielston, Minas Leon or even Talerium and Carelia can join...
Lets first mentioned realms can pull out even half of their strenght against us... it would mean over 100K CS army :P
You're assuming that the realms seek a "largest blob possible" strategy sending everything they can all at once. However, I think Kinsey's rotating army strategy is much more effective in this case. A new fresh 30k cs showing up every week is much better than 50-70k at a time with a two or three week break.
On top of that, they won't bring half of that to the field.
Or perhaps it will be a huge loot Darka fest!
Last time that was done was before the religion came to the game was it not?
I don't think Darka has been seriously looted since I started playing, seven years ago.
Forcefully split Darka back into North and South? Would certainly help mix up the dynamics of that bullet proof corner region again.
Quote from: Perth on January 22, 2013, 12:58:13 AM
Forcefully split Darka back into North and South? Would certainly help mix up the dynamics of that bullet proof corner region again.
How about we take every region north of the CE/Tara border and drive them rogue. Every single one except for the cities. Now, Make one duke per city each leader of their own realm. Let the land grab begin. Once a region is taken, you gain claim to that region.
It'll work itself out in a few weeks.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:05:55 AM
How about we take every region north of the CE/Tara border and drive them rogue. Every single one except for the cities. Now, Make one duke per city each leader of their own realm. Let the land grab begin. Once a region is taken, you gain claim to that region.
It'll work itself out in a few weeks.
So.. basically Cagilan instituted Hunger Games?
Quote from: Perth on January 22, 2013, 01:07:45 AM
So.. basically Cagilan instituted Hunger Games?
Well kind of. I forgot the part where, each duchy has to send 1 member of its nobility to join CE as a knight each year in order to prevent war. If that knight leaves the realm another must be sent within a week or war commences.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:11:51 AM
Well kind of. I forgot the part where, each duchy has to send 1 member of its nobility to join CE as a knight each year in order to prevent war. If that knight leaves the realm another must be sent within a week or war commences.
Hey.. I'm all for it. Sounds a lot more exciting than what the current post-war prospects will probably be. :P
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:11:51 AM
Well kind of. I forgot the part where, each duchy has to send 1 member of its nobility to join CE as a knight each year in order to prevent war. If that knight leaves the realm another must be sent within a week or war commences.
So hunger games lol
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:05:55 AM
How about we take every region north of the CE/Tara border and drive them rogue. Every single one except for the cities. Now, Make one duke per city each leader of their own realm. Let the land grab begin. Once a region is taken, you gain claim to that region.
It'll work itself out in a few weeks.
Can I just say that I love this idea?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:05:55 AM
How about we take every region north of the CE/Tara border and drive them rogue. Every single one except for the cities. Now, Make one duke per city each leader of their own realm. Let the land grab begin. Once a region is taken, you gain claim to that region.
It'll work itself out in a few weeks.
I'm always for interesting experiments in shaking the game up.
Quote from: Geronus on January 22, 2013, 03:05:31 AM
Can I just say that I love this idea?
I have to admit it sounds pretty awesome.
Quote from: Geronus on January 21, 2013, 08:50:40 AM
The Cagilan armies at least have been ordered to withdraw. Be patient.
As to the rest, I'm sure both Darka and BoM are waiting with bated breath to see what terms are offered to Eston. Doubtless both of those realms will be hoping to divine what sort of terms they can come to expect should they too decide to sue for peace.
You are assuming that Eston, Darka, and BoM will all get the same treatment. (Hint: They won't.)
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:05:55 AM
How about we take every region north of the CE/Tara border and drive them rogue. Every single one except for the cities. Now, Make one duke per city each leader of their own realm. Let the land grab begin. Once a region is taken, you gain claim to that region.
It'll work itself out in a few weeks.
That's too much work. How about we just drive'em all rogue, and let ambitious young nobles take care of the rest?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:11:51 AM
Well kind of. I forgot the part where, each duchy has to send 1 member of its nobility to join CE as a knight each year in order to prevent war. If that knight leaves the realm another must be sent within a week or war commences.
You're forgetting the part where they fight to the death. That's pretty important too.
May the odds be ever in your favor! ;D
Mmm, Hunger Game of Thrones.
No worries people. Urbarg has arrived to smash some heads and turn the tide for Darka!
Quote from: GoldPanda on January 22, 2013, 07:36:53 AM
You are assuming that Eston, Darka, and BoM will all get the same treatment. (Hint: They won't.)
I'm not all that surprised. They're still going to do it though.
Muwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Been quite a while since the last Chénier who styled himself a King.
Quote from: Chénier on January 23, 2013, 12:50:06 PM
Muwahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Been quite a while since the last Chénier who styled himself a King.
Too bad your realm doesn't stand much of a chance, IMO.
Quote from: Penchant on January 23, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
Too bad your realm doesn't stand much of a chance, IMO.
Yea, I know. But at least I can say I ruled on AT as well, now. And that I ruled a dying realm. 'cause heck, even if I pull some Chénier-esque magic, I doubt anyone can get to York before Minas Leon returns.
Quote from: Chénier on January 23, 2013, 03:04:54 PM
Yea, I know. But at least I can say I ruled on AT as well, now. And that I ruled a dying realm. 'cause heck, even if I pull some Chénier-esque magic, I doubt anyone can get to York before Minas Leon returns.
Raziel II maintained a stockpile of his intercontinental ballistic boulders in York. And syrup. Bombard the Leonians and poison their water supply.
Quote from: Stabbity on January 24, 2013, 01:30:13 AM
Raziel II maintained a stockpile of his intercontinental ballistic boulders in York. And syrup. Bombard the Leonians and poison their water supply.
Intercontinental ballistic... syrup?
Quote from: Eirikr on January 24, 2013, 04:18:02 AM
Intercontinental ballistic... syrup?
Heavens no! That would break the Eaglin Convention's rules on Boulder Based Weapons of Mass Hallucination!
QuoteOne does not simply march to Mt. Sinclair.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on January 22, 2013, 01:05:55 AM
How about we take every region north of the CE/Tara border and drive them rogue. Every single one except for the cities. Now, Make one duke per city each leader of their own realm. Let the land grab begin. Once a region is taken, you gain claim to that region.
It'll work itself out in a few weeks.
Stupid idea. Go feel bad about yourself in the corner!
Silly Darka. Our two hobbit agents have already infiltrated your treasury. They will be dropping your precious gold into the maw of Mt. Sinclair right... about... now...
Us? We're the rescue party. The League of the Eagle.
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 06, 2013, 07:27:51 AM
Silly Darka. Our two hobbit agents have already infiltrated your treasury. They will be dropping your precious gold into the maw of Mt. Sinclair right... about... now...
Us? We're the rescue party. The League of the Eagle.
;D ;D ;D
Well played, good sir, well played.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 06, 2013, 07:27:51 AM
Us? We're the rescue party. The League of the Eagle.
;D ;D ;D
Better late than never.
What do y'all do all day? Sit around pruning while all the hard work is done?
I find it interesting that this war was the League of the Eagle vs. the Order of the Raven.
Quote from: Perth on February 06, 2013, 06:48:57 PM
I find it interesting that this war was the League of the Eagle vs. the Order of the Raven.
If I recall, the Order was formed later and intentionally named to counter the Eagle part.
Who was the Order of the Raven?
And thw war should totally be renamed the Raptor War. Or the War of Birds.
Order of the Raven was supposed to be the coordination guild for the Northerners. We had a hell of a time getting the right people to join it. Not enough Marshals/Vice Marshals, and often enough even generals. It was routinely used as a flame conduit for MI/Hammarsett/Barony. KK even quit for a while because the infighting was so bad.
Quote from: Indirik on February 06, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
Order of the Raven was supposed to be the coordination guild for the Northerners. We had a hell of a time getting the right people to join it. Not enough Marshals/Vice Marshals, and often enough even generals. It was routinely used as a flame conduit for MI/Hammarsett/Barony. KK even quit for a while because the infighting was so bad.
Eh, you can blame Hammarsett for the infighting. For whatever reason we had a couple of really confrontational characters who ended up as Marshals or Generals.
Quote from: Geronus on February 06, 2013, 11:16:17 PM
Eh, you can blame Hammarsett for the infighting. For whatever reason we had a couple of really confrontational characters who ended up as Marshals or Generals.
Your whole realm was confrontational.
Quote from: Indirik on February 06, 2013, 10:34:47 PM
Order of the Raven was supposed to be the coordination guild for the Northerners. We had a hell of a time getting the right people to join it. Not enough Marshals/Vice Marshals, and often enough even generals. It was routinely used as a flame conduit for MI/Hammarsett/Barony. KK even quit for a while because the infighting was so bad.
Kerwin never joined it either.
There were some really breakthrough moments in there, though. Not as many as the Eagle, but I'd guess that was more due to experience with the setup than a lack of capacity.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 06, 2013, 07:27:51 AM
Silly Darka. Our two hobbit agents have already infiltrated your treasury. They will be dropping your precious gold into the maw of Mt. Sinclair right... about... now...
Us? We're the rescue party. The League of the Eagle.
;D ;D ;D
this made me laugh :D indeed well played ! :D
The Treaty of
VersailleHawthorne
Quote
I. Preamble
I.a. WHEREAS the Kingdom of Eston has allowed one of its infiltrators to brutally attack the leaders of Coria, Tara, Talerium, and the Cagilan Empire, and then let the perpetrator escape Atamara without punishment.
I.b. WHEREAS King Kerwin of Eston has previously asked for the Duchy of Eaglin during peace negotiations.
I.c. WHEREAS King Kerwin has offered to the Cagilan Empire the UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER of his realm.
I.d. THEREFORE the Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies in this conflict (Talerium, Tara, and Strombran) and herself, offers the following terms of peace to Eston.
II. Exiles
II.a. The Cagilan Empire and her allies hold Royal Justiciar Athena to be primarily responsible for catching and punishing the infiltrator who assaulted our leaders. This is a task that she had promised she would carry out, but she had failed to do so.
II.b. The Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies Talerium and Tara, demands that Royal Justiciar Athena immediately resign her positions and titles in Eston, and exile herself from Atamara, never to return. This clause of the treaty must be fulfilled as soon as possible after the signing of the treaty.
II.c. The Cagilan Empire, on behalf of her allies Talerium and Tara, demands that King Kerwin, after fulfilling the terms in section III of this treaty, immediately resign his positions and titles in Eston, and exile himself from Atamara, never to return. The remaining nobles of Eston may then elect a new Ruler of their choosing, but they are still bound by the terms of this treaty.
II.d. This exile will NOT extend to other members of their families.
III. Territory
III.a. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently release the Duchy of Hawthorne as an independent realm. The new realm will consist of the regions of Hawthorne, Agnilar, Loratil, Slantrax, Saradic, and Melias. Its nobles may choose a realm name other than "Hawthorne" if they wish, provided that it is not profane. Its nobles may choose their Ruler and government system as they wish, but they are still bound by the terms of this treaty.
III.b. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Nazamroth to Talerium.
III.c. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Anost to Coria.
III.d. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede to Rieleston the following regions: Ashmoor, Beleground, and Elost.
III.e. Eston will formally, publicly, and permanently cede the region of Nazia to the Cagilan Empire.
III.f. The Cagilan Empire recognizes Eston's continuing claims to the following regions: Dondor, Amdor, Meneriel, and Barad Lacirith.
III.g. Eston has twelve (12) days after the signing of the treaty to fulfill the clauses in this section of the treaty, one day for each region that Eston is being forced to cede.
IV. Diplomacy
IV.a. Eston will break her diplomatic ties with Darka and the Barony of Makar. Eston may not ally with Darka or the Barony of Makar for a period of at least six (6) months.
IV.b. Hawthorne may not ally with Darka or the Barony of Makar for a period of at least six (6) months.
IV.c. Eston and Hawthorne will NOT give military passage rights to Darka or the Barony of Makar, for a period of at least six (6) months.
IV.d. Eston and Hawthorne will adopt a diplomatic status of peace or better with Talerium, Tara, Strombran, Coria, Rieleston, and the Cagilan Empire, for a period of at least nine (9) months.
IV.e. Eston and Hawthorne will give full passage rights to Talerium, Tara, Strombran, Coria, Rieleston, and the Cagilan Empire, for a period of at least nine (9) months.
IV.f. Eston and Hawthorne will NOT be made into vassals or protectorates. After a period of nine (9) months, they are free to change their diplomatic policies as they see fit.
IV.g. If Eston or Hawthorne is attacked without provocation within the next six (6) months, the Cagilan Empire will offer her protection to them, provided that the Cagilan Empire is not already busy aiding an ally.
V. War Reparations
V.a. The Cagilan Empire and her allies do not demand monetary compensation from Eston.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/The_Treaty_of_Hawthorne
Why won't Minas Leon attack? :(
They are good people and avoid unnecessary violence!
They wait week or 2 to see your army starve? Less violence when they come then...
Well, not to spam FB news thread...
This is Darka!
http://youtu.be/-qR0Uke2XNI
-Jaune
Breaking news: Suville's expeditionary force is ordered to attack defending forces in Anost. In a hilarious and deadly surprise, the troops defending the area turn out to be Tarans instead of Darkans. Chaos ensues with Suville gallantly attacking the heavily defended Taran/Cagilan position. The defending troops annihilate the vastly inferior force from Suville. The lone Darkan unit to take the field dies of laughter.
League of the Eagle and Allied Casualties: 229 Taran and Cagilan soldiers + Suville's entire army of 378 soldiers
Northern Alliance Casualties: 25 Darkans who probably died happy.
*facepalm*
Suville, welcome to The Dark(a) side!
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on March 01, 2013, 07:21:35 PM
Suville, welcome to The Dark(a) side!
-Jaune
Ain't giving them cookies yet though! only those with the goat poop! XD
Quote from: Geronus on March 01, 2013, 06:36:01 PM
Breaking news: Suville's expeditionary force is ordered to attack defending forces in Anost. In a hilarious and deadly surprise, the troops defending the area turn out to be Tarans instead of Darkans. Chaos ensues with Suville gallantly attacking the heavily defended Taran/Cagilan position. The defending troops annihilate the vastly inferior force from Suville. The lone Darkan unit to take the field dies of laughter.
League of the Eagle and Allied Casualties: 229 Taran and Cagilan soldiers + Suville's entire army of 378 soldiers
Northern Alliance Casualties: 25 Darkans who probably died happy.
*facepalm*
Man, is something weird in battle code?
We had a surprise diplomatastrophe in Dwiligh too recently.
Quote from: Vellos on March 01, 2013, 08:36:22 PM
Man, is something weird in battle code?
We had a surprise diplomatastrophe in Dwiligh too recently.
It's actually perfectly straigh-forward. Tara already had a unit in Anost. Therefore they held the field (defender).
The Suville units were set to aggressive and were the attackers. Suville and Tara are at neutral status. Sit back and wait...
Aggressive only triggers a battle when neutral and you are the attacker afaik. I still have to discover whether murderous will attack even allies and federation...
Quote from: Bael on March 01, 2013, 08:51:37 PM
I still have to discover whether murderous will attack even allies and federation...
Yes.
Quote from: Bael on March 01, 2013, 08:51:37 PM
It's actually perfectly straigh-forward. Tara already had a unit in Anost. Therefore they held the field (defender).
The Suville units were set to aggressive and were the attackers. Suville and Tara are at neutral status. Sit back and wait...
Aggressive only triggers a battle when neutral and you are the attacker afaik. I still have to discover whether murderous will attack even allies and federation...
I don't think the aggressive settings were necessary, because of the Darkan unit.
The Tarans control the field as you described. Then, the battle is triggered by the presence of the Darkan unit. Because of the CE/Tara alliance, CE joins the defenders.
The Suville units are marked as "freshly arrived", with at least one unit on aggressive, bringing them into the battle. Since they are neutral with everyone involved in the battle, will prefer the attacker side. This puts Suville and Darka on the same side of the field.
If memory serves (because checking the combat script is a nightmare), had Suville had a single unit in the region that wasn't freshly arrived they would have been on the side of CE/Tara. Without the aggressive settings, I believe they would have sat out of the battle.
Quote from: ^ban^ on March 01, 2013, 10:27:21 PM
I don't think the aggressive settings were necessary, because of the Darkan unit.
The Tarans control the field as you described. Then, the battle is triggered by the presence of the Darkan unit. Because of the CE/Tara alliance, CE joins the defenders.
The Suville units are marked as "freshly arrived", with at least one unit on aggressive, bringing them into the battle. Since they are neutral with everyone involved in the battle, will prefer the attacker side. This puts Suville and Darka on the same side of the field.
If memory serves (because checking the combat script is a nightmare), had Suville had a single unit in the region that wasn't freshly arrived they would have been on the side of CE/Tara. Without the aggressive settings, I believe they would have sat out of the battle.
This is NOT true. Suville was allied to both CE and Coria.
If they were allied, then the only way they could end up on the opposite side of the battle would be if they were on Murderous. The battle report would show that.
Quote from: Indirik on March 01, 2013, 10:47:48 PM
If they were allied, then the only way they could end up on the opposite side of the battle would be if they were on Murderous. The battle report would show that.
Well they ARE allied. So its a bug.
A very fun bug, however. <.<
Hmm... I havent seen the battlereport, but if Tara set defence, Darkan fellow attacks... Suville is new arriwal and neutral to both, Darkan and Taran, they say Attake... Ce should have sitout since there is allies on both sides?
-Jaune
This made sense to me until you said that Suville and CE were allied. Coria and Strombran sat out the battle because they had friends on both sides. Did the federation trump the alliance with Suville for CE...?
Quote from: Geronus on March 01, 2013, 11:23:45 PM
This made sense to me until you said that Suville and CE were allied. Coria and Strombran sat out the battle because they had friends on both sides. Did the federation trump the alliance with Suville for CE...?
I think this is likely. The Federation trumps all. What doesn't make sense is why Suville would then participate at all.
Quote from: Eirikr on March 01, 2013, 11:38:22 PM
I think this is likely. The Federation trumps all. What doesn't make sense is why Suville would then participate at all.
Well, if the battle code only compares their relationship with the original defender of the region (Tara), it makes perfect sense. They didn't attack the Cagilan troops, they attacked the Tarans. THEN the Cagilans joined the defense.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on March 01, 2013, 11:13:47 PM
Well they ARE allied. So its a bug.
Were they on murderous? I haven't seen the report.
In fact, posting the set-up portion of the battle report would be very helpful.
9 attackers (159 Inf, 127 Arch, 25 Cav, 92 SF, 14 other)
49 defenders (2007 Inf, 150 MI, 478 Arch, 688 Cav)
Total combat strengths: 6331 vs. 35994
13 neutral observers (8379 combat strength).
Lion's Leap tried to evade foreign troops, but were spotted.
The troops from Tara set up defenses because they control the battlefield.
The confederates from Cagilan Empire join the defense.
The Darka troops attack because they are at war with Tara.
The Crimson Blades have attack orders.
Sailor's Wrath have attack orders.
Glassinn Gladiators have attack orders.
Warriors Of Glassinn have attack orders.
The Suville units join in to support their realm-mates.
The Coria forces stay neutral because they have friends on both sides.
The Strombran forces stay neutral because they have friends on both sides.
The battle takes place in the middle of a storm, archers will be almost worthless.
The Crimson Blades have attack orders.
Sailor's Wrath have attack orders.
Glassinn Gladiators have attack orders.
Warriors Of Glassinn have attack orders.
The Suville units join in to support their realm-mates.
One of those must be a Suville unit, maybe set to murderous.
It seems like someone wants to avoid this kind of battles in the future
An alliance was forged (1 day, 2 hours ago)
The realms of Tara and Coria have joined into an alliance.
No, I think "attack orders" is just Aggressive. Murderous is "are out for blood". It must be because Tara controled the field, and Suville is neutral. Aggressive will cause you to fight a neutral.
Anaris may be able to shed some light on this, as he has a better feel for the battle setup.
http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=7645
Bugs are causing the League more casualties than Darkan troops. I don't believe the Darkan players should be proud of that. -_-
My understanding of the combat code is that aggressive settings will not cause you to attack allies under any circumstances. Apparently I was wrong all these years.
I have asked for this before but was denied, but is it really that bad to release the algorithm that determines who fights on which side? That's rather important information to have, and right now only the Devs have access to it. Otherwise, we're just encouraging huge alliance blobs and "technical alliances" that I see people here decry all the time.
And yes, Enri will be sending another request to Tara and Suville to reconcile and sign a goddamn peace treaty already, with the battle report attached.
Anaris has posted the details before. It's not a secret.
Quote from: Indirik on March 02, 2013, 06:00:56 AM
Anaris has posted the details before. It's not a secret.
I guess I fail at reading comprehension then. I thought my understanding of the "who fights on which side" algorithm was rock solid.
Could you (or another Dev) please post it again?
Also, even given that my understanding is obviously wrong, I believe that this is still a bug. What is the point of an alliance if it does not prevent battles from breaking out between allied realms? In the worst case scenario, it should have been Suville troops attacking Taran troops, with everyone else staying neutral. Suville had an alliance with CE but attacked CE forces anyway. That is not intuitive to me.
I don't have a copy of it handy. I may be able to look it up somewhere.
It is possible there is a bug in there somewhere, anyway. I thought you had to have Murderous in order to attack an ally.
Right. All bets are off once you go "murderous", I understand that. That's not what happened in this case though.
Yeah, my bet is on the Federation as well. It tends to override other relations. But I wonder if this battle wouldn't have occurred if Tara and CE had an Alliance instead of a Federation, that would be odd. But I'm no expert on this, Federations do tend to confuse me, and Anaris can always tell it in a very simple and understandable way. He just needs to repeat it several times for people like me :D
My (speculative) take:
Suville troops attacked Tara because Suville had attack orders, it was a neutral region that Tara was defending, and Suville and Tara had neutral relations.
CE only ended up in the middle of it because of the federation. If it was only an alliance, I think they would have sat it out like Coria and Strombran did. Basically the battle code read it as Tara was attacked, looked at all other relationships and decided Strombran and Coria had equal relations with both parties, then looked at Ce and decided it had stronger relations with Tara than Suville and would side with Tara.
I don't think murderous matters here because Suville didn't attack CE or any other allied party. They attacked the Tarans with whom they are neutral. Then CE came to the Tarans' defense. It seems logical enough to me. If it's a bug, it's not a glaring one. To me, this could conceivably be working as designed.
*Edit: Corrected a typo
Quote from: Geronus on March 02, 2013, 07:47:35 AM
My (speculative) take:
Suville troops attacked Tara because Suville had attack orders, it was a neutral region that Tara was defending, and Suville and Tara had neutral relations.
CE only ended up in the middle of it because of the federation. If it was only an alliance, I think they would have sat it out like Coria and Strombran did. Basically the battle code read it as Tara was attacked, looked at all other relationships and decided Strombran and Coria had equal relations with both parties, then looked at Ce and decided it had stronger relations with Tara than Suville and would side with Suville.
I don't think murderous matters here because Suville didn't attack CE or any other allied party. They attacked the Tarans with whom they are neutral. Then CE came to the Tarans' defense. It seems logical enough to me. If it's a bug, it's not a glaring one. To me, this could conceivably be working as designed.
+1, I highly doubt this is a bug.
That is a fine analysis, except that CE begin defending first:
Lion's Leap tried to evade foreign troops, but were spotted.
The troops from Tara set up defenses because they control the battlefield.
The confederates from Cagilan Empire join the defense.
The Darka troops attack because they are at war with Tara.
The Crimson Blades have attack orders.
Sailor's Wrath have attack orders.
Glassinn Gladiators have attack orders.
Warriors Of Glassinn have attack orders.
The Suville units join in to support their realm-mates.
The Coria forces stay neutral because they have friends on both sides.
The Strombran forces stay neutral because they have friends on both sides.
Quote from: GoldPanda on March 02, 2013, 08:22:45 AM
That is a fine analysis, except that CE begin defending first:
Lion's Leap tried to evade foreign troops, but were spotted.
The troops from Tara set up defenses because they control the battlefield.
The confederates from Cagilan Empire join the defense.
The Darka troops attack because they are at war with Tara.
The Crimson Blades have attack orders.
Sailor's Wrath have attack orders.
Glassinn Gladiators have attack orders.
Warriors Of Glassinn have attack orders.
The Suville units join in to support their realm-mates.
The Coria forces stay neutral because they have friends on both sides.
The Strombran forces stay neutral because they have friends on both sides.
It very clearly says:
The troops from Tara set up defenses because they control the battlefield.And then also says:
The confederates from Cagilan Empire join the defense.This clearly implies that Tara is considered
the defender; the Cagilans are just supporting them (joining them in the defense). The mistake I (again speculatively) believe you to be making is to assume that the code is evaluating things in the order that they are written here. That certainly doesn't have to be the case. If you look at the way the list is ordered, it is logically arranged so that all the defenders are listed first, then the attackers, then the neutrals. In order to be able to present such a logical order, the code has obviously already determined who the attackers, defenders and neutrals are in advance of generating the text that we see. The order in which it chooses to then inform you about these results says absolutely nothing about how it got to them.
So I will say again, what I think happened here is that the code first determined that there was a defender in the region, then checked for attackers and found at least one. Then it assessed what everyone else would be doing based on the original attackers and the one original defender. In point of fact I could still be very wrong about the order of operations as I am making more than one assumption here, and almost certainly oversimplifying what is undoubtedly a very convoluted piece of code, but I suppose the overall point is that the way things worked out can easily be construed as logical, which means it's not necessarily a bug. Not saying it isn't, just that it's also not obvious that it
is.
Quote from: Skiarxon on March 02, 2013, 12:47:46 AM
It seems like someone wants to avoid this kind of battles in the future
An alliance was forged (1 day, 2 hours ago)
The realms of Tara and Coria have joined into an alliance.
This had nothing to do with the battle gone wrong. This was already planned before that battle went wrong.
However if you see Tara and Suville signing peace, then yes...
I know the war against the evil empire ended in failure on Atamara but the war against the Colonies very own CE still continues apace. Come to Oritolon and help beat back the Lukonian hordes for fame and glory!
War was failure, but war is not yet over, so keep coming to Darka and turn the tide!
-Jaune
Wow, so I completely failed to notice that Wistir had one of those grandfathered rural-region palisades (who even remembers to look for those anymore?). That was a total bloodbath for CE and Friends. We had two siege engines in the whole army and almost as much cavalry as infantry.
On the other hand, if I am the Darkans right now, I am hunting down the lord of that region and flaying him alive for letting that priceless palisade get into such a state of disrepair. If Enri decides to keep taking that invasion route, you're really going to miss having it.
"Total casualties: 668 attackers, 129 defenders"
Doh! You're not kidding, that was a nasty battle.
That first battle made it impossible to repair the walls :/
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on April 16, 2013, 09:30:03 PM
That first battle made it impossible to repair the walls :/
-Jaune
I know, but what you maybe didn't realize is that it was 60% damaged before the battle even started...
We noticed as soon as we saw that CE was headed north. There just wasn't enough time for the lord to get there and fix it.
Does that mean the walls are permanently gone?
Quote from: Eirikr on April 17, 2013, 04:49:44 AM
Does that mean the walls are permanently gone?
yes.
Yesterday:
Sabotage! (1 day, 2 hours ago)
message to everyone in Wistir
Enri Kinsey's guards, in Wistir, have captured Skiarxon Guldan, an infiltrator working for Darka while he was sneaking around the camp of Sir Enri Kinsey, General of Cagilan Empire, Knight of Calis, Marshal of Calis Lions conspicuously, with a poisoned dagger under his cloak.
Today:
Sir Enri Kinsey, General of Cagilan Empire, Knight of Calis, Marshal of Calis Lions has been wounded by Ashtongue Deathsworn (His brothers unit XD)
This is so funny..i don't even.... XD
I am amazed at how much of the Empire's army got wiped out. Between the two battle in Wistir, two rounds of post-battle hunting, and the chasing battle in Slantrax, barely a handful of the southerner's 40K army is getting home alive. I definitely had not hoped for anything near that good.
Quote from: Indirik on April 17, 2013, 08:58:11 PM
I am amazed at how much of the Empire's army got wiped out. Between the two battle in Wistir, two rounds of post-battle hunting, and the chasing battle in Slantrax, barely a handful of the southerner's 40K army is getting home alive. I definitely had not hoped for anything near that good.
Well, the attack on the palisade was a total bloodbath for us; the infantry (who were outnumbered to start with) climbed the walls in the first wave with only 2 siege engines, and then the cavalry rode in after the infantry was already decimated so they got decimated too. Laszlo's unit was literally wiped out to a man (I had 50+ wounded, 0 healthy men). Then a lot of us also got wounded, so we couldn't get out of there and our units got hunted. Laszlo recovered this morning enough to run for Slantrax, but one or more of his men apparently got better and so he got seriously wounded in the battle there. The younger, sprier Antonius had better luck and managed to get out ahead of the Darkans, albeit with a single healthy man left out of the 20 he started with.
It's pretty much been a complete rout from beginning to end. Laszlo will probably make his disgust known and refuse to join CE's campaigns anymore, once he recovers that is. Antonius, being a young knight from CE, will no doubt see you fine gentleman again in a few weeks.
Wait, Geronus, you have two CE characters? You... >:(
Quote from: Penchant on April 18, 2013, 04:27:58 AM
Wait, Geronus, you have two CE characters? You... >:(
No. He has one Corian character, one CE character. (Unless the other is a Taran)
Quote from: Lavigna on April 17, 2013, 08:31:35 PM
Yesterday:
Sabotage! (1 day, 2 hours ago)
message to everyone in Wistir
Enri Kinsey's guards, in Wistir, have captured Skiarxon Guldan, an infiltrator working for Darka while he was sneaking around the camp of Sir Enri Kinsey, General of Cagilan Empire, Knight of Calis, Marshal of Calis Lions conspicuously, with a poisoned dagger under his cloak.
Today:
Sir Enri Kinsey, General of Cagilan Empire, Knight of Calis, Marshal of Calis Lions has been wounded by Ashtongue Deathsworn (His brothers unit XD)
This is so funny..i don't even.... XD
Wounds Healing (11 hours, 32 minutes ago)
The healers say your condition is improving.
In fact, they think you're well enough to be allowed to resume limited duties.
You are recovering from your wounds, and able to act and send messages, though you can't do as much as usual in a day.
Pfft. Darkans can't even wound an old man right. Enri's healed up already.
Quote from: GoldPanda on April 18, 2013, 05:55:16 AM
Wounds Healing (11 hours, 32 minutes ago)
The healers say your condition is improving.
In fact, they think you're well enough to be allowed to resume limited duties.
You are recovering from your wounds, and able to act and send messages, though you can't do as much as usual in a day.
Pfft. Darkans can't even wound an old man right. Enri's healed up already.
1. How many times were you and your marshals last time?
2. Your tears might have magic healing properties.
Quote from: GoldPanda on April 18, 2013, 05:55:16 AM
Pfft. Darkans can't even wound an old man right. Enri's healed up already.
Also Cagilans can't even hold one man in their dungeons ^^. Skiarxon escaped already XD
Quote from: Skiarxon on April 18, 2013, 06:06:22 AM
1. How many times were you and your marshals last time?
2. Your tears might have magic healing properties.
I don't really cry over BM. ^^ XD ^^ XD XD XD
"We assume of others what we know to be true of ourselves."
Quote from: GoldPanda on April 18, 2013, 08:32:18 AM
I don't really cry over BM. ^^ XD ^^ XD XD XD
"We assume of others what we know to be true of ourselves."
Out-of-Character from Enri Kinsey (1 day, 2 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in the region Wistir (81 recipients)
... Palisades in an rural region? Seriously? What is this, 2004? What's next, AOL discs in the mail?
I guess it just goes to show how absurdly long it has been since Darka was last invaded.
Yangfan Wang
Yeah right...
Go Darka!
Cagilan Empire's Name Changed (18 minutes ago)
Celestial Fury, Prime Minister of Cagilan Empire, Royal of Cagilan Empire, Duke of Nida, Earl of Nida, Marshal of Fyrd of Ered Luin has changed Cagilan Empire's full name to "Mighty Cagilan Empire"
And from a scale of 1 to retard the Fury guy just topped the meter. ITS A NEW WORLD RECORD!
Cagilan Empire's Name Changed (18 minutes ago)
Celestial Fury, Prime Minister of Cagilan Empire, Royal of Cagilan Empire, Duke of Nida, Earl of Nida, Marshal of Fyrd of Ered Luin has changed Cagilan Empire's full name to "Mighty Cagilan Empire"
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbv085fkAq1rioycbo1_500.gif)
MiCE :)
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on April 24, 2013, 07:16:08 PM
MiCE :)
-Jaune
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/old-lol.gif)
my face when darka notices our name change
Should've been "New World Order Cagilan Empire"
What about "Our Bark is worse than our Bite Cagilan Empire"
First time in my history ,i'm in shame. I'm not part of CE anymore I belong to MiCE. We will see what happen next ? What will be our Pm's new title be? ;D
Quote from: Zadar on April 26, 2013, 10:14:34 PM
First time in my history ,i'm in shame. I'm not part of CE anymore I belong to MiCE.
That is just the form that the Empire takes in this dimension. In reality... ;)
I can't say I agree or disagree.
But one thing is true we back in the spot light!
FOOLS! This isn't even my FINAL FORM!
Here's a hint:
CAgiLAn eMpIRe
I think CE should also change their banner to:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Tre_kronor_3.jpg
It would make the ancient CE leaders roll on their graves :)
-Jaune
It would be a interesting day if that comes to pass. ::) ;D
And here is something to Darka. You have much in common.
http://www.krigsspil.dk/download/crusade/poland01.jpg (http://www.krigsspil.dk/download/crusade/poland01.jpg)
Tough battle were fought this morning on Darkan lands. Small margin win for Darka again... but second round looks to becoming... and not so sure how that will end.
But gotta say I'm proud of Darka. There was again 5 realms attacking... and they bounced!
-Jaune
It is pretty amazing to see realms like Suville and Strombran going all the way north just to find something of interest. It is probably one of the most lame things to witness in BM. I guess a kudos to Darka's pyrrhic victory is in order.
Quote53 attackers (1630 Inf, 77 MI, 630 Arch, 684 Cav, 234 SF)
40 defenders (1659 Inf, 311 MI, 300 Arch, 255 Cav, 87 SF)
Total combat strengths: 38128 vs. 32922
Defender Victory!
This is not a Pyrrhic victory. It is a true victory for freedom on Atamara!This is the fourth time the armies of the Empire have marched north to invade Darka, and the fourth time they have met with defeat.
Seriously, though, that's a LOT of cavalry they brought. Reminds of the old Perdanese cavalry charges back in the day...
Some interesting stats:
There were only 5 unique items carried into the battle by nobles. Three of them by the the Head Mouse himself, Celestial Fury.
3255 attackers
2612 defenders
Darka left 10K CS behind in an adjacent region
MiCE left 23K CS behind in two adjacent regions along their path
One Darkan hero was killed
2 Darkans were captured
14 Darkans were wounded
2 MiCE were captured
12 MiCE were wounded
Seems to me that the battle was very short, given the number of troops involved. There was one round of archer fire, five rounds of battle, and one round to mop up the last Taran unit of 16 infantry. So really only 5 rounds of true fighting. Those open field battles are short and vicious.
So with a 5000 CS advantage and so much cavalry, how do they lose? Were walls involved?
No. They just have crappy troops. MiCE's strategy seems to be to flood Darka with huge masses of canon fodder. Of course, after the last battle in Wistir, MiCE's troops were slaughtered wholesale. They had to come back with freshly recruited green armies, while most of Darka had battle-hardened troops. Probably lots of early retreats among the Empire.
"To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!"
:'(
Dammit!
Costly few battles those were....
Darka lost few precious nobles one of them was general permanently and a LOT got prisoned and wounded, including whole royal family. King seriously wounded, prince wounded and princess captured by CE.
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on May 10, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
Dammit!
Costly few battles those were....
Darka lost few precious nobles one of them was general permanently and a LOT got prisoned and wounded, including whole royal family. King seriously wounded, prince wounded and princess captured by CE.
-Jaune
Too bad this isn't real middle ages. That would have ended the war right there. If you capture a member of the royal family, that's game over.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 10, 2013, 09:05:28 PM
Too bad this isn't real middle ages. That would have ended the war right there. If you capture a member of the royal family, that's game over.
Depends on how much the King cares... if it's someone who's been a thorn in his side for a while, he might just decide to let them be offed. <.<
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on May 10, 2013, 09:06:54 PM
Depends on how much the King cares... if it's someone who's been a thorn in his side for a while, he might just decide to let them be offed. <.<
True...but if it was the King, it's game over.
OR if the King really cared about them. Either way.
But, if the King didn't care about them, then he'll lose internal support if he doesn't even care enough about his own family members.
Bah! I am dead, and cannot give Fury the IG props he deserves, so I shall do it here. Nice RP, dude! (A little retcon, but cool nonetheless.)
Quote from: Indirik on May 10, 2013, 10:15:00 PM
Bah! I am dead
Dead people join Coria.
It is Known.
I tried going to the Politics tab to change allegiance, but it just keeps telling me I'm dead. How did the other dead people do it? ;)
Quote from: Indirik on May 10, 2013, 10:15:00 PM
Bah! I am dead, and cannot give Fury the IG props he deserves, so I shall do it here. Nice RP, dude! (A little retcon, but cool nonetheless.)
Feel like posting the RP?
Quote from: Indirik on May 11, 2013, 01:17:11 AM
I tried going to the Politics tab to change allegiance, but it just keeps telling me I'm dead. How did the other dead people do it? ;)
Well, one of Merlin's many, many talents is
taxidermy.
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 11, 2013, 08:01:34 AM
Well, one of Merlin's many, many talents is taxidermy.
One of the others is
seduction.
Does he use both skills on the same person? If so, which one first? *squick*
Both at the same time. :o :o :o
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/why-not-both-why-dont-we-have-both
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 12, 2013, 02:45:49 AM
Both at the same time. :o :o :o
"You have such lovely skin!" *Makes an incision for emphasis, after checking that straps are secure*
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w380/avzweblizard/it-puts-the-lotion-on-its-skin-or-it-gets-the-hose-again_zps8d803237.jpg)
I was reminded of the above from where this thread has meandered to (and yes, I suspect it is poor english to end in "to", but I don't feel like fixing it.)
Quote from: Indirik on May 11, 2013, 01:17:11 AM
I tried going to the Politics tab to change allegiance, but it just keeps telling me I'm dead. How did the other dead people do it? ;)
It's under the "Make a new character link"
->Atamara
->Duchy of Frekpotis
Done.
Btw, best way for Darka to win the war is to join Coria.
Well, if we join Coria through new characters... you wont get the gold reserves we have :P
-jaune
Quote from: jaune on May 14, 2013, 11:48:27 AM
Well, if we join Coria through new characters... you wont get the gold reserves we have :P
-jaune
Why would I need your gold reserves? Coria has the most gold/noble out of any realm on Atamara.
I dont believe you, you may have biggest income/noble, but i bet Darka still beats you on gold/noble :)
-jaune
Quote from: jaune on May 14, 2013, 11:54:14 AM
I dont believe you, you may have biggest income/noble, but i bet Darka still beats you on gold/noble :)
-jaune
That's what I meant.
No one beats Darka on gold reserves.
But I don't need reserves if I can produce more than I can use.
Gold reserves are nice for days when you're handing out over 2k gold to get a new army.
Well gold won't win any wars at this time and joining with Coria won't do that either. Coria will be crippled a lot faster than Darka that is a fact.
Quote from: Zadar on May 14, 2013, 04:14:01 PM
Well gold won't win any wars at this time and joining with Coria won't do that either. Coria will be crippled a lot faster than Darka that is a fact.
That's why they'd make a good meatshield. <.<
Quote from: Zadar on May 14, 2013, 04:14:01 PM
Well gold won't win any wars at this time and joining with Coria won't do that either. Coria will be crippled a lot faster than Darka that is a fact.
All Darka needs for winning this war(winning as in CE will just be banging its head against a wall without getting any harm done to Darka) is one or two CE allies to stop bother coming up north. That or even a single decent sized realm joining in on the defense.
Quote from: LilWolf on May 14, 2013, 04:33:21 PM
All Darka needs for winning this war(winning as in CE will just be banging its head against a wall without getting any harm done to Darka) is one or two CE allies to stop bother coming up north. That or even a single decent sized realm joining in on the defense.
Since none of those realms have anything remotely interesting going on anywhere else in terms of wars they can join, good luck :)
Your best hope is that a war breaks out in the southeast, which could easily distract any or all of Suville, Tara, Strombran or even CE itself.
All it would take is to distract Tara, and the war against Darka would come to a screeching halt. CE/Coria can't do it on their own.
Quote from: Indirik on May 14, 2013, 08:16:51 PM
All it would take is to distract Tara, and the war against Darka would come to a screeching halt. CE/Coria can't do it on their own.
Heck, from what I've seen, if you take Tara out of the equation Darka might actually have a fair chance at pushing back.
Quote from: Geronus on May 14, 2013, 09:49:08 PM
Heck, from what I've seen, if you take Tara out of the equation Darka might actually have a fair chance at pushing back.
Right now, CE is just chugging along. I'm sure we could whip up something special for Darka, with some motivation.
Quote from: Geronus on May 14, 2013, 09:49:08 PM
Heck, from what I've seen, if you take Tara out of the equation Darka might actually have a fair chance at pushing back.
so true
Quote from: Bael on May 14, 2013, 11:00:30 PM
Right now, CE is just chugging along. I'm sure we could whip up something special for Darka, with some motivation.
Not really. In your dreams sure.
Quote from: Skiarxon on May 15, 2013, 12:47:04 AM
Not really. In your dreams sure.
Ehhhhh, I wouldn't bet on that... Remember how Darka was only putting 20kish CS in the field for a while until you guys got
really motivated? I imagine CE could pull off a similar surge if it had a compelling reason to.
Quote from: Geronus on May 15, 2013, 03:26:33 AM
Ehhhhh, I wouldn't bet on that... Remember how Darka was only putting 20kish CS in the field for a while until you guys got really motivated? I imagine CE could pull off a similar surge if it had a compelling reason to.
There is none. They come along with their friends and they bang their heads against the wall. 2-3 days of looting don't do much difference like they never did to Coria. After that boredom kicks in and nobles leave or just stay in the capital.
Looting Coria made a very large difference. It forced Coria to capitulate due to the complete destruction of its ability to make war after months and months of looting. Granted, we did so on favorable terms, but it doesn't make the withdrawal any different.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 15, 2013, 07:23:41 AM
Granted, we did so on favorable terms,
Ah, the good ole' days. How I miss them. Back when Kings were Kings, not fugitives!
Quote from: Geronus on May 15, 2013, 03:26:33 AM
Ehhhhh, I wouldn't bet on that... Remember how Darka was only putting 20kish CS in the field for a while until you guys got really motivated? I imagine CE could pull off a similar surge if it had a compelling reason to.
Bah it is frustrating to repeat the same things over and over again. It's not a matter of motivation, we have more nobles and we have the homeland army aiding to the defense as well, the Homeland army doesn't march outside Darka.
Even now we have many players joining so you will soon see even more CS.Still it won't be a matter of motivation, more players= more cs.Darka has tons of gold to give away for ppl to recruit as much as they can, they simply have to ask for it.
So it is a matter of gold (someone said it wasn't?) because we are fighting 3 regions from our capital, we have tons of gold to turn into men and the enemy always loses a lot in the first battle and the leftovers can't do much. So far they showed nothing to upset Darka, even the looting is rather ridiculous considering the fact they are like 5 realms :P
They have to get a lot better to make difference, and not just recruit more but actually use their units right instead of suiciding half their forces.
They will taste the fun of traveling back and forth for ages, knowing the enemy expects them fully repaired and prepared. Darka did the same in the beginning of this war, needless to say we lost 10 players over this.
Quote from: Lavigna on May 15, 2013, 09:21:52 AM
Bah it is frustrating to repeat the same things over and over again. It's not a matter of motivation, we have more nobles and we have the homeland army aiding to the defense as well, the Homeland army doesn't march outside Darka.
Even now we have many players joining so you will soon see even more CS.Still it won't be a matter of motivation, more players= more cs.Darka has tons of gold to give away for ppl to recruit as much as they can, they simply have to ask for it.
I'd argue it's semantics. After all, a lot of those new players only showed up because of the situation you're in, and I would guess that some players who've been there the whole time are more interested and engaged now that fighting means defending Darka against superior forces instead of marching for a week at a time just to get to the front line. No wonder you lost players before. Few things are more boring than a distant campaign that never gets anywhere.
In any case CE has just as many nobles, so if they were as motivated as you are (which is not currently the case), they could probably bring similar numbers to bear. CE isn't exactly poor itself, after all. But, now they're the ones marching for a week just to get to Darka, and looting's not that interesting. The battles are nice, but there's one, what, every three weeks? I'm already bored with it, personally. I need to get myself into the Senate to see if it's more interesting.
Quote from: Geronus on May 15, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
I'd argue it's semantics. After all, a lot of those new players only showed up because of the situation you're in, and I would guess that some players who've been there the whole time are more interested and engaged now that fighting means defending Darka against superior forces instead of marching for a week at a time just to get to the front line.
There is definitely some truth in that. Where we used to have trouble getting more than half the Royal Army to march to war, participation in that last set of battles in Malor was absolutely incredible. If there were 5 warrior class Darkans not in Malor, I would have been shocked.
Quote
In any case CE has just as many nobles, so if they were as motivated as you are (which is not currently the case), they could probably bring similar numbers to bear. CE isn't exactly poor itself, after all. But, now they're the ones marching for a week just to get to Darka, and looting's not that interesting. The battles are nice, but there's one, what, every three weeks? I'm already bored with it, personally.
That's Darka's strategy: TO bore the MiCE into giving up. :D
Quote from: Geronus on May 15, 2013, 03:26:33 AM
Ehhhhh, I wouldn't bet on that... Remember how Darka was only putting 20kish CS in the field for a while until you guys got really motivated? I imagine CE could pull off a similar surge if it had a compelling reason to.
My point exactly.
Quote from: Skiarxon on May 15, 2013, 12:47:04 AM
Not really. In your dreams sure.
And it's a good thing that I had a point, unlike the above non-post ::)
Quote from: Geronus on May 15, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
I'd argue it's semantics. After all, a lot of those new players only showed up because of the situation you're in, and I would guess that some players who've been there the whole time are more interested and engaged now that fighting means defending Darka against superior forces instead of marching for a week at a time just to get to the front line. No wonder you lost players before. Few things are more boring than a distant campaign that never gets anywhere.
Sure there is a point to that :) But it also a fact that when Darka fought the war traveling for a week she lost a lot of nobles :D and i do hope that this will be the case for Darka's enemies right now as well.
Quote from: Lavigna on May 15, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
Sure there is a point to that :) But it also a fact that when Darka fought the war traveling for a week she lost a lot of nobles :D and i do hope that this will be the case for Darka's enemies right now as well.
That could definitely happen, provided you can keep it stalemated and boring for long enough.
Quote from: Lavigna on May 15, 2013, 09:01:09 PM
Sure there is a point to that :) But it also a fact that when Darka fought the war traveling for a week she lost a lot of nobles :D and i do hope that this will be the case for Darka's enemies right now as well.
With the current lack of players this game is suffering, you would want anyone, even an enemy, to lose people?
Quote from: Velax on May 16, 2013, 04:51:39 AM
With the current lack of players this game is suffering, you would want anyone, even an enemy, to lose people?
Lose characters? Sure, just not have the player leave the game over one realm.
Quote from: Penchant on May 16, 2013, 04:53:06 AM
Lose characters? Sure, just not have the player leave the game over one realm.
If you feel you can magically make that not happen, then please feel free. But it does happen. And saying it doesn't to win an argument on a forum doesn't change that fact.
So, are you trying to say, Darka should not keep it up to "stalemate" so CE wont lose characters and so that they could have fun?
-Jaune
Quote from: Velax on May 16, 2013, 04:51:39 AM
With the current lack of players this game is suffering, you would want anyone, even an enemy, to lose people?
lol what? I said i hope they lose people to other realms. Darka lost players to other realms or continents, they didn't quit the game. wth :P
and hell yeah i hope that happens to them , i hope they leave them and join Colonies instead.
I doubt any of them cared when Darkans were leaving.And more may leave now as well, gangbangs sooner or later lead to ppl leaving the realm that getw gangbanged, in the beginning it's fun, in the end....not so much
It's a little early to call this a "stalemate", don't you think? :)
Not sure, this has lasted a pretty long time, now was first time that battles occured on Darkan lands.
But gotta admit, we got beaten this time :)
-KK
CE is persistent, no doubt about that.
Most nobles are playing on autopilot though. We go here, we go there, we stomp Darka, back to refit, now back to Darka. Log in once a day to set the next destination point. Glorious!
If you guys in Darka want more fun, split into 4-5 realms based on your duchies and duke it out. CE will leave you alone. Just look to your east, how much fun do Barony, ML, RE and Heorot have at the moment!
Quote from: Radigand on May 16, 2013, 09:48:28 PM
CE is persistent, no doubt about that.
Most nobles are playing on autopilot though. We go here, we go there, we get stomped by Darka, back to refit, now back to Darka. Log in once a day to set the next destination point. Glorious!
If you guys in Darka want more fun, split into 4-5 realms based on your duchies and duke it out. CE will leave you alone. Just look to your east, how much fun do Barony, ML, RE and Heorot have at the moment!
fixed that for you.
Quote from: SkiarxonTroll on May 16, 2013, 09:52:34 PM
fixed that for you.
SkiarxonTroll trolls. Its kinda self explanatory. And not a single fact in sight whenever he makes a post.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fact
"Knowledge or information based on real occurrences"
Quote from: Bael on May 17, 2013, 12:01:23 AM
SkiarxonTroll trolls. Its kinda self explanatory. And not a single fact in sight whenever he makes a post.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fact
"Knowledge or information based on real occurrences"
Like you lost your whole army last time because you forgot to check if there is a wall? How about that for a fact?
Can we not be quite so bitter and hostile toward each other in this?
Quote from: Indirik on May 17, 2013, 03:57:41 AM
Can we not be quite so bitter and hostile toward each other in this?
That tends to happen when one side is blaming the other for stagnating a continent, and the other side is delusional.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on May 17, 2013, 04:04:41 AM
That tends to happen when one side is blaming the other for stagnating a continent, and the other side is delusional.
You forgot the butthurt one too.
Quote from: Skiarxon on May 17, 2013, 04:19:29 AM
You forgot the butthurt one too.
You do realize I'm arguing on your side...
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on May 17, 2013, 04:27:36 AM
You do realize I'm arguing on your side...
Yes. But you forgot Tara
So, there is still a war after 119 pages? :)
Mattias have no place to go...
Quote from: Radigand on May 16, 2013, 09:48:28 PM
If you guys in Darka want more fun, split into 4-5 realms based on your duchies and duke it out. CE will leave you alone. Just look to your east, how much fun do Barony, ML, RE and Heorot have at the moment!
I think our king suggested to CE that Darka be split in two(north and south. We do have a prince and princess so there's potential for some great fun there if they'd start feuding over who's the rightful ruler of all of Darka). Rejected.
We offered to secede Massillion duchy, rejected(according to CE ruler such a secession is not really losing a duchy ::)).
Splitting into 4-5 realms just isn't going to happen and I wouldn't trust CE to keep its nose out of it even if we did do it.
Don't mind Skiarxon. He's just mad that his hero got killed. 8)
i'd be mad too if some guy was gloating because his realm is winning after calling in just about every other major realm in for a gangbang. Not really a big accomplishment there, pretty much the same tactic used by those who "win servers" on AstroEmpires.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on May 17, 2013, 08:53:00 AM
i'd be mad too if some guy was gloating because his realm is winning after calling in just about every other major realm in for a gangbang. Not really a big accomplishment there, pretty much the same tactic used by those who "win servers" on AstroEmpires.
+1
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on May 17, 2013, 08:53:00 AM
i'd be mad too if some guy was gloating because his realm is winning after calling in just about every other major realm in for a gangbang. Not really a big accomplishment there, pretty much the same tactic used by those who "win servers" on AstroEmpires.
Omg and lol on that. You have to remember who started this and Darka did not start this alone! Now it is time to pay the bills . it is so simple .
This is Atamara, if you do not want to play with the big boys, just go home and stop whining.
Quote from: Zadar on May 17, 2013, 01:18:55 PM
Omg and lol on that. You have to remember who started this and Darka did not start this alone! Now it is time to pay the bills . it is so simple .
This is Atamara, if you do not want to play with the big boys, just go home and stop whining.
Lol right back at you. The big boys, Tara has some nerves to call herself that in front of Darka.
When this war started, it was pretty equal. This is a gangbang.
Personally i m not even mad at it but i do understand the frustration of others over it. Mostly from Tara, such a laughable realm.It's like a fart trying to make a point just because it's smelly if you get my point. But still remains a fart.
Tone down the hostility, everyone.
All I hearing is whining and gloating...
gangbang or not were coming!
QuotePublic Execution (1 day, 4 hours ago)
Messengers bring news of a public execution in Brackhead earlier today.
Elroy, a noble of Rieleston, had been banned from Heorot as a traitor on 2013-05-01. When he was later imprisoned, the judge of Heorot decided to make him pay for his treason.
Background info on this family.
[protest options]
Haven't been so excited to see an execution since.... ever.
Quote from: Perth on May 20, 2013, 12:33:12 AM
Haven't been so excited to see an execution since.... ever.
Me neither. I have been trying for over a year to get Elroy killed, as life as a 74 year old infiltrator who has pretty much done everything possible that could be done by an assassin is pretty boring - just going through the motions. Now the fun in regards to his death can start. Of course I am not surprised in your joy...you are as big of an offender at mixing OOC and IC as those you like to badmouth in your posts, and who conveniently (for you) don't post on these forums.
Quote from: Elroy on May 20, 2013, 05:49:18 AM
you are as big of an offender at mixing OOC and IC as those you like to badmouth in your posts, and who conveniently (for you) don't post on these forums.
How?
Quote from: Perth on May 20, 2013, 07:08:14 AM
How?
Your character doesn't like them due to them being a pita, and you don't like them for their extreme OOC worship of the Eston king that died in RL that leads them to being extremely annoying IG, ipso facto, you must be mixing IC and OOC. (I am not being serious just guessing at his logic.)
Quote from: Perth on May 20, 2013, 12:33:12 AM
Haven't been so excited to see an execution since.... ever.
Cyrilos was pumped too: being a priest in a region with a skilled infil who hates you is an unsafe way to live.
Quote from: Vellos on May 22, 2013, 05:08:50 AM
Cyrilos was pumped too: being a priest in a region with a skilled infil who hates you is an unsafe way to live.
Kerwin has been stabbed by Elroy like... at least 3 times since he went to the Barony/Heorot. Was getting annoying.
Quote from: Perth on May 22, 2013, 08:52:44 AM
Kerwin has been stabbed by Elroy like... at least 3 times since he went to the Barony/Heorot. Was getting annoying.
Try put a big gold bounty on Elroy head as a big get-me notice to bounty hunters? But I like his name 8)
Quote from: Ketchum on May 22, 2013, 10:53:49 AM
But I like his name 8)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljuzjgwwxR1qa6qrz.jpg)
Elroy was named after a chinchilla my wife and I had long before kids...and he was named after the one and only Elroy Jetson.
Quote from: Ketchum on May 22, 2013, 10:53:49 AM
Try put a big gold bounty on Elroy head as a big get-me notice to bounty hunters? But I like his name 8)
I mean, he's dead now. So. Yeah.
Quote from: Indirik on May 22, 2013, 02:46:19 PM
Elroy
That is him alright ;D
Quote from: Elroy on May 22, 2013, 03:14:01 PM
Elroy was named after a chinchilla my wife and I had long before kids...and he was named after the one and only Elroy Jetson.
Whoa, there is the background story on him indeed 8)
Quote from: Perth on May 22, 2013, 08:31:19 PM
I mean, he's dead now. So. Yeah.
Sad, why you kill him :'(
So now son of Elroy took up his father sword isn't it?
Quote from: Ketchum on May 23, 2013, 04:22:36 AM
Sad, why you kill him :'(
So now son of Elroy took up his father sword isn't it?
I didn't. Ender did.
QuoteSad, why you kill him
So now son of Elroy took up his father sword isn't it?
Because Ender got tired of everyone around him being stabbed. The turnaround on realm council positions was getting ridiculous. That and infiltrators have never been safe in a Viking dungeon, not as long as Ender has been around to do whatever he wants and refuse prisoner treaties.
Quote from: Ender on May 23, 2013, 01:06:14 PM
Because Ender got tired of everyone around him being stabbed. The turnaround on realm council positions was getting ridiculous. That and infiltrators have never been safe in a Viking dungeon, not as long as Ender has been around to do whatever he wants and refuse prisoner treaties.
It was getting pretty ridiculous. I have never seen that much stabbing.
How does someone get away with that for so long? I've got an Infil with 80/80 skill and he can't even travel through enemy regions without getting arrested, let alone stabbing people.
Quote from: Velax on May 23, 2013, 05:41:03 PM
How does someone get away with that for so long? I've got an Infil with 80/80 skill and he can't even travel through enemy regions without getting arrested, let alone stabbing people.
Targets are probably old people without great sword skill.
QuoteTargets are probably old people without great sword skill.
Not all of them, but a majority were. I was keeping a unit with me most of the time and trying to stay on the move and I was stabbed only once personally. I assumed that would help.
Also, it was not just Elroy. It was a full fledged stabbing spree from the Talerium infils as well.
Quote from: Perth on May 23, 2013, 09:26:52 PM
It was a full fledged stabbing spree from the Talerium infils as well.
What do you expect? This is, after all, Atamara we're talking about. Talerium is the acknowledged home of everything infiltrator-ish.
Quote from: Indirik on May 23, 2013, 10:07:54 PM
What do you expect? This is, after all, Atamara we're talking about. Talerium is the acknowledged home of everything infiltrator-ish.
Oh, trust me, I know. Did you forget I played the King of Eston? :P
Quote from: Vellos on May 23, 2013, 05:52:39 PM
Targets are probably old people without great sword skill.
I got stabbed about three times with high sword skill (old though). To be fair, I did catch him either 2/3 or 3/3 times... He just got lucky and escaped twice. Not so lucky the third time...
Quote from: Eirikr on May 24, 2013, 05:06:41 AM
I got stabbed about three times with high sword skill (old though). To be fair, I did catch him either 2/3 or 3/3 times... He just got lucky and escaped twice. Not so lucky the third time...
Stanislav spends 90% of his time wounded. :(
Quote from: Chénier on May 24, 2013, 12:51:35 PM
Stanislav spends 90% of his time wounded. :(
Note to self: don't be in the same region as Stanislav.
Quote from: Chénier on May 24, 2013, 12:51:35 PM
Stanislav spends 90% of his time wounded. :(
Stanislav and Kerwin are Atamara's rejects. They need to start a new realm together.
Quote from: Stabbity on May 24, 2013, 01:24:02 PM
Note to self: don't be in the same region as Stanislav.
And here I thought you called me there just to stab me. :P
And this "stay-wounded-forever" bug really sucks...
Quote from: Perth on May 24, 2013, 07:42:26 PM
Stanislav and Kerwin are Atamara's rejects. They need to start a new realm together.
How in the world is Kerwin ever going to start a new realm?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on May 24, 2013, 09:26:07 PM
How in the world is Kerwin ever going to start a new realm?
A boy can dream, Silverfire.
You used to build me up, but now all you do is cut me down!
Quote from: Chénier on May 24, 2013, 12:51:35 PM
Stanislav spends 90% of his time wounded. :(
Since infils started hitting Heorot, Maduin has been down 90% of the time, too. It doesn't help being the Marshal for so long...
Ladies and Gentlemen.... Kerwin has left the building.
Quote from: Perth on June 09, 2013, 06:59:31 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen.... Kerwin has left the building.
:(
No more puppets...
:D :D
"No more puppets"
:D :D
There is a lot puppets around me thinks :P
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on June 09, 2013, 11:29:18 AM
:D :D
"No more puppets"
:D :D
There is a lot puppets around me thinks :P
-Jaune
Big difference between sheep and puppets.
Not that much, sheep goes where shepherd orders, if not... shepherd dog will push you.... and puppet does what puppetmaster tells him to do.
-Jaune
The major difference between a sheep and a puppet is a Redspaniard won't attempt to mate with a puppet.
"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned."
Wohoo!
My puppet aint obeying my orders! There seem to be Corians on our lands fighting wrong side!
-Jaune
Just give them mushrooms... ;)
Quote from: Zadar on June 10, 2013, 12:38:22 PM
So there is rumours that Coria will form new realm called Freakpot and yes it is the same freak in charge who wanted to create an new Empire. He even sent Infils against own people,against Royal. I really can't understand why others could let this kind of clown rule over them. So Darka did get an puppet after all.
Well someone else didn't bother to kick the butt of his infil that went against a Royal (KK), ordered or not he deserved death at best.
In game i took my hat off to Ottar for recognizing that, although i would expect him to demand that said infil got beheaded by his own realm.
Quote from: Lavigna on June 10, 2013, 01:58:53 PM
Well someone else didn't bother to kick the butt of his infil that went against a Royal (KK), ordered or not he deserved death at best.
In game i took my hat off to Ottar for recognizing that, although i would expect him to demand that said infil got beheaded by his own realm.
MiCE...
Quote from: Zadar on June 10, 2013, 12:38:22 PM
So there is rumours that Coria will form new realm called Freakpot and yes it is the same freak in charge who wanted to create an new Empire. He even sent Infils against own people,against Royal. I really can't understand why others could let this kind of clown rule over them. So Darka did get an puppet after all.
Honestly, I cannot understand how anyone can still call Merlin a puppet of anyone. Have you not paid any attention to any politics besides what you're fed in the CE Senate?
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on June 10, 2013, 05:43:28 PM
Honestly, I cannot understand how anyone can still call Merlin a puppet of anyone. Have you not paid any attention to any politics besides what you're fed in the CE Senate?
Karma. ;)
And then there were 3...
so... is CE waiting for Darka's gold to run out because of all the huge units before attacking? ???
Are you seriously asking about CE's war plans on the forums? ???
nope, unless CE's plan really is to wait for Darka's gold to run out.... It's just been a while since the bi-weekly "destroy each other's army then refit" routine :)..
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 05, 2013, 02:11:57 PM
Are you seriously asking about CE's war plans on the forums? ???
Yes, that was clearly a serious question.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 05, 2013, 02:11:57 PM
Are you seriously asking about CE's war plans on the forums? ???
Who said spying had to be difficult?
Well CE has units scattered around Eston. I dunno where they're heading. Maybe to finish off the Barony?
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 05, 2013, 02:11:57 PM
Are you seriously asking about CE's war plans on the forums? ???
To be fair...that would imply that CE is actually fighting a war instead of spending a few days every two weeks walking around looking for a battle in or around Darkan lands...
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 05, 2013, 05:20:12 PM
To be fair...that would imply that CE is actually fighting a war instead of spending a few days every two weeks walking around looking for a battle in or around Darkan lands...
That damn treaty with Talerium cuts both ways. That thing is one of the worst things to ever happen to Atamara >:(
Quote from: Geronus on July 05, 2013, 05:24:33 PM
That damn treaty with Talerium cuts both ways. That thing is one of the worst things to ever happen to Atamara >:(
O' rly?
That counts for Darka as well you know. If there was no treaty with Talerium this war would be different.And wouldn't be camping outside Darka and you can bet on it.
Quote from: Lavigna on July 05, 2013, 05:38:16 PM
O' rly?
That counts for Darka as well you know. If there was no treaty with Talerium this war would be different.And wouldn't be camping outside Darka and you can bet on it.
That's why I said it cuts both ways. First one way for most of the war, and now the other.
The reason I said it was bad is because it appears that it will be the one thing that keeps Darka and the Empire from really coming to grips with each other, which is detrimental to all of Atamara. It effectively mandates a stalemate between them, makes Talerium effectively immortal, and is a roadblock to any sort of meaningful change on that entire third of the map.
Quote from: Geronus on July 05, 2013, 05:44:29 PM
The reason I said it was bad is because it appears that it will be the one thing that keeps Darka and the Empire from really coming to grips with each other, which is detrimental to all of Atamara. It effectively mandates a stalemate between them, makes Talerium effectively immortal, and is a roadblock to any sort of meaningful change on that entire third of the map.
You did just point out though why Talerium loves it so much.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 05, 2013, 05:45:25 PM
You did just point out though why Talerium loves it so much.
Yeah, no !@#$ :P
Talerium: Infiltrators welcome because we are untouchable and we know it!
Quote from: Geronus on July 05, 2013, 05:44:29 PM
That's why I said it cuts both ways. First one way for most of the war, and now the other.
The reason I said it was bad is because it appears that it will be the one thing that keeps Darka and the Empire from really coming to grips with each other, which is detrimental to all of Atamara. It effectively mandates a stalemate between them, makes Talerium effectively immortal, and is a roadblock to any sort of meaningful change on that entire third of the map.
To me apart all the "old blocks honor code whatever" it seems like a perfect survival tactic for Talerium itself. CE won't hurt then since it kept Darka outside it's lands and Darka won't attack them either of course, because if we had such intention we would have done it in the beggining of the war. So it is simple and smart.
Darka spent the whole war traveling regions and regions and lost. Maybe not it's CE's turn :P At least *so far* CE had strong allies.We can all be thankful that changed :P I guess Silnaria did make a difference - for now-.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 05, 2013, 02:11:57 PM
Are you seriously asking about CE's war plans on the forums? ???
+1
Quote from: Lavigna on July 05, 2013, 05:52:30 PM
To me apart all the "old blocks honor code whatever" it seems like a perfect survival tactic for Talerium itself. CE won't hurt then since it kept Darka outside it's lands and Darka won't attack them either of course, because if we had such intention we would have done it in the beggining of the war. So it is simple and smart.
Darka spent the whole war traveling regions and regions and lost. Maybe not it's CE's turn :P At least *so far* CE had strong allies.We can all be thankful that changed :P I guess Silnaria did make a difference - for now-.
+1, sometimes I wonder if Talerium has piles of gold, I mean they have a lot of land to hide it under.
Quote from: Lavigna on July 05, 2013, 05:52:30 PM
At least *so far* CE had strong allies.We can all be thankful that changed :P I guess Silnaria did make a difference - for now-.
The Empire has made an utter and complete hash out of that whole situation.
Quote from: Geronus on July 05, 2013, 06:19:02 PM
The Empire has made an utter and complete hash out of that whole situation.
I think it's pretty interesting, to say the least. Suck for Darkan's I bet they finally didn't have to travel for war.
If CE really can be blocked out from Darka, it could give Darka some room to help out BoM and mayby even trying to improve relations with CE friendly realms at north... or spank em some wisdon on their head to abandon such friends.
Both, ML and Rielston have threatened aggression to Darka during this war and Darka have been only able to nod cause there is no chanhce to get anymore enemies, but if CE is really not able to get on us, this could change. But gotta see how serious those 2 realms were... also time is running regards to Hawthorne treaty, so Lyoness and Eston are son free to have relations they wish.
-Jaune
Quote from: Stabbity on July 05, 2013, 02:24:28 PM
Yes, that was clearly a serious question.
Sorry. I am actually a BM-playing bot that Tom wrote, so I don't really understand nuanced human behaviors very well. My prediction systems estimated a 40% chance of "rhetorical question" and a 60% chance of "very dumb question". I had to ask in order to be sure.
By the way, are you being sarcastic right now?
Beep beep boop!
Quote from: jaune on July 06, 2013, 09:06:40 AM
If CE really can be blocked out from Darka, it could give Darka some room to help out BoM and mayby even trying to improve relations with CE friendly realms at north... or spank em some wisdon on their head to abandon such friends.
Both, ML and Rielston have threatened aggression to Darka during this war and Darka have been only able to nod cause there is no chanhce to get anymore enemies, but if CE is really not able to get on us, this could change. But gotta see how serious those 2 realms were... also time is running regards to Hawthorne treaty, so Lyoness and Eston are son free to have relations they wish.
-Jaune
And that is the fundamental philosophical difference between CE and Darka:
CE: Diplomacy first. Warfare is for when diplomacy fails.
Darka: Spank'em until they agree with you.
Heh, like we have not tried to go through this diplomatically? :D I bet i have asked peace treaties more than any other ruler in BM history...
-Jaune
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 06, 2013, 09:35:21 AM
And that is the fundamental philosophical difference between CE and Darka:
CE: Diplomacy first. Warfare is for when diplomacy fails.
Darka: Spank'em until they agree with you.
I seriously doubt any in your realm trusts you with diplomatic updates because you have obviously no idea about the diplomatic approaches Darka did tried through this war.
In fact you are a pretty irritating bot as all bots are, absolutely no clue of how irrelevant it's "observations" are.
You really hate Darka and it's alright , but you embarass yourself when you try to prove it in the most childish way by making comments that have no logic ( or knowledge for that matter) in them.Sad Panda is sad once more.
http://images.sodahead.com/slideshows/000017103/5530953939_sad_pandas_demotivational_poster-70368948729_xlarge.jpeg
I'm sure their Senate hugs Panda time to time to keep him less sad.
"Dont be sad panda, you are doing good job... just keep bouncing, mayby one day you will have success!"
-jaune
Err, sure, you guys ask for peace now.
Times when CE tried to sue for peace with Darka:
- At the beginning of the war, when CE was invaded.
- When CE defeated Carelia.
- When CE defeated Hammarsett.
- When CE defeated Minas Ithil.
- When Rieleston seceded from Eston.
All Darka had to do was leave the war, and we would have left you alone. But no, KKKC had his mercenary's "honor", which apparently did not help him whip CE, for some strange reason.
Times when Darka tried to sue for peace with CE:
- When Darka was invaded.
We arrived at the current situation because CE's leadership dealt in facts. KKKC dealt in wishful fantasies. And if that keeps up, not even Merlin can save you.
By the way, Merlin is blocking CE and Tara's moves now because he does not wish to see CE-Tara achieve hegemony over Atamara, and also I think there is a bit of pity for the poor Darkans involved. :'( Poor, poor Darkans. All the gold in the world, can't win a battle to save their hides. :'(
So keep up the personal attacks. This bot doesn't care. ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 07, 2013, 12:48:17 AM
Err, sure, you guys ask for peace now.
Times when CE tried to sue for peace with Darka:
- At the beginning of the war, when CE was invaded.
- When CE defeated Carelia.
- When CE defeated Hammarsett.
- When CE defeated Minas Ithil.
- When Rieleston seceded from Eston.
All Darka had to do was leave the war, and we would have left you alone. But no, KKKC had his mercenary's "honor", which apparently did not help him whip CE, for some strange reason.
Times when Darka tried to sue for peace with CE:
- When Darka was invaded.
We arrived at the current situation because CE's leadership dealt in facts. KKKC dealt in wishful fantasies. And if that keeps up, not even Merlin can save you.
By the way, Merlin is blocking CE and Tara's moves now because he does not wish to see CE-Tara achieve hegemony over Atamara, and also I think there is a bit of pity for the poor Darkans involved. :'( Poor, poor Darkans. All the gold in the world, can't win a battle to save their hides. :'(
So keep up the personal attacks. This bot doesn't care. ;D
Whoa lol, people in CE are really not playing with you when it comes to politics.
You are so wrong that seriously i don't know if i should laugh at your ignorance or cry.
Anyway, the thing is we don 't even whine for this "invasion" if you can call it one.So far it is a laughable attempt and nothing more.
Explode.
I should remind you that even when Coria attacked your attacks were still laughable?You are embarassing yourself.Seriously just stop.
Do gain yourself a serious victory then come brag and mock because so far you only sound ridiculous and sad panda.
I would so suggest CE vs Darka with Cantril open for both ways so some mouths can shut it in here. Seriously. I challenge you.
Your "mighty" CE army was a mere 17k. That shows you can't do !@#$ alone since you backed away.
In other news this bot is stupid and should be deleted. You know. Like a former MiCE PM.
Uh oh. I've angered LaVagina! She can't prove me wrong, so she keeps up with the personal attacks, which actually just makes me a happy panda. ;D
There is no need to quote when the post you're responding to is right above you, by the way. :)
Quote from: jaune on May 10, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
Dammit!
Costly few battles those were....
Darka lost few precious nobles one of them was general permanently and a LOT got prisoned and wounded, including whole royal family. King seriously wounded, prince wounded and princess captured by CE.
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on May 16, 2013, 07:52:17 AM
Not sure, this has lasted a pretty long time, now was first time that battles occured on Darkan lands.
But gotta admit, we got beaten this time :)
-KK
Quote from: GoldPanda on May 17, 2013, 08:05:41 AM
Don't mind Skiarxon. He's just mad that his hero got killed. 8)
No... You're right. CE has never won a serious victory on Darkan soil. My bad. "No wait that one doesn't count!" I'm sure. ;)
Quote from: Lavigna on July 07, 2013, 01:09:47 AM
Explode.
Yep. That's what your RCs did. ;D
Quote from: Lavigna on July 07, 2013, 01:15:49 AM
I would so suggest CE vs Darka with Cantril open for both ways so some mouths can shut it in here. Seriously. I challenge you.
Oh... Poor, poor LaVagina. Blockages can cause serious health issues. You should see your gynecologist about that. :(
Quote from: Skiarxon on July 07, 2013, 01:19:02 AM
Your "mighty" CE army was a mere 17k. That shows you can't do !@#$ alone since you backed away.
In other news this bot is stupid and should be deleted. You know. Like a former MiCE PM.
Still sore about your dead hero? You know, there is a cream for that. ;)
Alright, playtime's over. If you can't stay civil, just shut up.
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 07, 2013, 01:25:10 AM
Still sore about your dead hero? You know, there is a cream for that. ;)
You applied that cream too when I stabbed you and your other friendly Marshals among 60k CS?
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 07, 2013, 01:23:11 AM
Uh oh. I've angered LaVagina! She can't prove me wrong, so she keeps up with the personal attacks, which actually just makes me a happy panda. ;D
There is no need to quote when the post you're responding to is right above you, by the way. :)
No... You're right. CE has never won a serious victory on Darkan soil. My bad. "No wait that one doesn't count!" I'm sure. ;)
Yep. That's what your RCs did. ;D
Oh... Poor, poor LaVagina. Blockages can cause serious health issues. You should see your gynecologist about that. :(
omg...are you serious or just trolling ? cause if you do i am trying too hard to not feed you but if you re that clueless then i just feel sorry to comment.....
You are seriously bragging for coming in darka in 3 realms (2 of them being 2 of the largests in the continent) and all you managed was to loot one region to the ground and blow rcs?
Don't you feel ashame to even POST THIS?
You know forget it. just forget it....i seriously can't reach your level of brigntness and discuss over this...you lack the basic levels of logic.
Quote from: Sacha on July 07, 2013, 01:25:51 AM
Alright, playtime's over. If you can't stay civil, just shut up.
Oh, sir, yes sir! ;D
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 07, 2013, 01:42:47 AM
Oh, sir, yes sir! ;D
GoldPanda, please do be quiet. Even the people who play in CE and Tara don't defend you, since they know you're not worth defending.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on July 07, 2013, 04:16:51 AM
GoldPanda, please do be quiet. Even the people who play in CE and Tara don't defend you, since they know you're not worth defending.
Sir, yes, sir! *salutes* ;D 7
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 07, 2013, 01:23:11 AM
Uh oh. I've angered LaVagina! She can't prove me wrong, so she keeps up with the personal attacks, which actually just makes me a happy panda. ;D
There is no need to quote when the post you're responding to is right above you, by the way. :)
No... You're right. CE has never won a serious victory on Darkan soil. My bad. "No wait that one doesn't count!" I'm sure. ;)
Yep. That's what your RCs did. ;D
Oh... Poor, poor LaVagina. Blockages can cause serious health issues. You should see your gynecologist about that. :(
Are you really whining about personal attacks while calling someone LaVagina? Do they let you on BM during nap time in kindergarten now or something?
Just put him in your ignore list, that's what I did. He can't help it if he has the maturity (and humor) of a 14 year old.
Quote from: Sacha on July 07, 2013, 01:25:51 AM
Alright, playtime's over. If you can't stay civil, just shut up.
I'm going to have to agree here... This doesn't sound like a boardgame between friends (or at least, the kind of atmosphere Tom means when he says that).
Both sides need to cut out the personal crap. The bit about the account deletion is entirely uncalled for; what does it matter the reason? Yet another person has left our ever-dwindling game. That's not a topic for jokes.
We can very easily have civil chides back and forth on wins and losses, but this has become ridiculous.
Quote from: Lavigna on July 07, 2013, 01:28:04 AM
omg...are you serious or just trolling ?
I believe it is called counter-trolling. And doing alright at that. And yes, Darka's attitude does get irritating after a while. As I'm sure you are inclined to find CE does perhaps.
Quote from: Bael on July 07, 2013, 02:31:54 PM
I believe it is called counter-trolling. And doing alright at that. And yes, Darka's attitude does get irritating after a while. As I'm sure you are inclined to find CE does perhaps.
Ι was from the first people to say that this war was partialy, if not entirely some would think, our fault.
Besides it was Darka that made Tara and CE super powers by accepting their contracts in like forever.
I accept that, what i don't accept is saying that CE is winning against Darka.
We could eat them for breakfast any time in a 1vs 1 war. And even in a 3 vs 1 war they did poorly.They say it's irritating Talerium won't let them in...well snif snif same happened to Darka. As simple as that.
Those who cry about the fact Darka never had a war they must go back in Atamara's history and read how many times they begged to have them on their side when they were fighting their wars.
The only mistake i find is that we got involved in this war as Darka and not as a mercenary realm. So now we are paying for it and it is welcomed, but don't brag about victories ....really...don't.
Heh, Tarans cheered their success when they destroyed one of our RC's and while they lost half of their army and CE lost almost whole of their army, and they said it was victory :)
But time will again show how this will end... I hope it will end as soon as possible, cause i really want to retire KK... But for now it looks like CE is too proud to accept that they cant destroy us, and since this has lasted so long, new wars are brewing and CE's buddies want some other action... which ofcourse suit Darka well... Now that CE couldnt break through our lines, they went to north help out Rielston & ML against already wrecked BoM, soon enough i bet we hear how they boast "We destroyed BoM" wholly jolly 3 realms vs. 1/2 realm.
-KK
Quote from: GoldPanda on July 07, 2013, 12:48:17 AM
By the way, Merlin is blocking CE and Tara's moves now because he does not wish to see CE-Tara achieve hegemony over Atamara, and also I think there is a bit of pity for the poor Darkans involved.
That's not even remotely what's going on in Silnaria. You are making false assumptions based on what Silverfire has said here on the forums. What's going on in Silnaria is that Merlin tried desperately to get the Empire and the rest of the League to recognize Silnaria as Coria's successor, which it legitimately is assuming you respected the sovereignty of the Corian Senate in the first place. Had you done so, Merlin would have re-signed the alliances, opened up passage rights, and we'd be right back to smashing Darka in the face just like we were before.
Instead you refused to recognize Silnaria and you've completely failed to reign in Tara. As a result, your war effort against Darka just went to !@#$, but it's sure as hell not Merlin's fault. Your characters let your dislike of the man take precedence over your desire to defeat Darka. If screwing Merlin is a bigger priority for you than defeating Darka then you're doing just fine. If not, then you've screwed up this situation royally.
Quote from: Geronus on July 07, 2013, 04:21:44 PM
That's not even remotely what's going on in Silnaria. You are making false assumptions based on what Silverfire has said here on the forums. What's going on in Silnaria is that Merlin tried desperately to get the Empire and the rest of the League to recognize Silnaria as Coria's successor, which it legitimately is assuming you respected the sovereignty of the Corian Senate in the first place. Had you done so, Merlin would have re-signed the alliances, opened up passage rights, and we'd be right back to smashing Darka in the face just like we were before.
Instead you refused to recognize Silnaria and you've completely failed to reign in Tara. As a result, your war effort against Darka just went to !@#$, but it's sure as hell not Merlin's fault. Your characters let your dislike of the man take precedence over your desire to defeat Darka. If screwing Merlin is a bigger priority for you than defeating Darka then you're doing just fine. If not, then you've screwed up this situation royally.
Damn, +1. Pretty much nailed it IMO. Merlin / Silnaria's not 100% blameless, but yeah.
Can you guys stop sitting here speculating about the god damn game and play it?
This is a game of medieval nobles who do the things medieval nobles do. Sitting here and saying man I really wanna break up X alliance or destroy Keplerstan doesn't help the game. That's metagaming and doesn't hold true to the original spirit of a comprehensive RPG because you're fabricating character motivations from your personal desires. Sitting here and grumplaining about what people are or aren't doing isn't going to help anything as well. If your character is such a scaredy cat he won't do anything exciting kill him and make a more ambitious character. There's so many !@#$%^&s in this game it honestly astounds me what you people are like in person sometimes.
Things are never as simple as you want them to be when other people are involved. Crying "man but you guys should've done this because this and this and this and gosh you guys are so stupid and are ruining the game" only makes you a massive !@#$%^&.
Play the god damn game instead of complaining at Panda that CE should've done this or that or gosh you guys are ruining everything and why don't you like the things I like. And if you can't, stop playing the game and consider picking up another hobby. Why do you think people are leaving? Do they really want to play this game with you? It's really testing my patience because besides the strategy/risk players half of you want to play TeaPartyMaster, some of you want to play Le Epic Adventure Game of Thrones XXDDD and very few people want to play a god damn internally consistent RPG about medieval nobles in a low-fantasy setting.
You're dealing with other people here guys. Real people. With jobs and stuff they do and families and friends and feelings and thoughts. If they don't like the things you like, deal with it.
Quote from: BarticaBoat on July 08, 2013, 05:12:17 AM
Can you guys stop sitting here speculating about the god damn game and play it?
This is a game of medieval nobles who do the things medieval nobles do. Sitting here and saying man I really wanna break up X alliance or destroy Keplerstan doesn't help the game. That's metagaming and doesn't hold true to the original spirit of a comprehensive RPG because you're fabricating character motivations from your personal desires. Sitting here and grumplaining about what people are or aren't doing isn't going to help anything as well. If your character is such a scaredy cat he won't do anything exciting kill him and make a more ambitious character. There's so many !@#$%^&s in this game it honestly astounds me what you people are like in person sometimes.
Things are never as simple as you want them to be when other people are involved. Crying "man but you guys should've done this because this and this and this and gosh you guys are so stupid and are ruining the game" only makes you a massive !@#$%^&.
Play the god damn game instead of complaining at Panda that CE should've done this or that or gosh you guys are ruining everything and why don't you like the things I like. And if you can't, stop playing the game and consider picking up another hobby. Why do you think people are leaving? Do they really want to play this game with you? It's really testing my patience because besides the strategy/risk players half of you want to play TeaPartyMaster, some of you want to play Le Epic Adventure Game of Thrones XXDDD and very few people want to play a god damn internally consistent RPG about medieval nobles in a low-fantasy setting.
You're dealing with other people here guys. Real people. With jobs and stuff they do and families and friends and feelings and thoughts. If they don't like the things you like, deal with it.
+1
Quote from: BarticaBoat on July 08, 2013, 05:12:17 AM
Can you guys stop sitting here speculating about the god damn game and play it?
This is a game of medieval nobles who do the things medieval nobles do. Sitting here and saying man I really wanna break up X alliance or destroy Keplerstan doesn't help the game. That's metagaming and doesn't hold true to the original spirit of a comprehensive RPG because you're fabricating character motivations from your personal desires. Sitting here and grumplaining about what people are or aren't doing isn't going to help anything as well. If your character is such a scaredy cat he won't do anything exciting kill him and make a more ambitious character. There's so many !@#$%^&s in this game it honestly astounds me what you people are like in person sometimes.
Things are never as simple as you want them to be when other people are involved. Crying "man but you guys should've done this because this and this and this and gosh you guys are so stupid and are ruining the game" only makes you a massive !@#$%^&.
Play the god damn game instead of complaining at Panda that CE should've done this or that or gosh you guys are ruining everything and why don't you like the things I like. And if you can't, stop playing the game and consider picking up another hobby. Why do you think people are leaving? Do they really want to play this game with you? It's really testing my patience because besides the strategy/risk players half of you want to play TeaPartyMaster, some of you want to play Le Epic Adventure Game of Thrones XXDDD and very few people want to play a god damn internally consistent RPG about medieval nobles in a low-fantasy setting.
You're dealing with other people here guys. Real people. With jobs and stuff they do and families and friends and feelings and thoughts. If they don't like the things you like, deal with it.
You have missed the point by miles and you are the one actually crying here. Since there are so many !@#$%^&s like you say why do you read the forums or even why do you still play?
Quote from: BarticaBoat on July 08, 2013, 05:12:17 AM
Can you guys stop sitting here speculating about the god damn game and play it?
This is a game of medieval nobles who do the things medieval nobles do. Sitting here and saying man I really wanna break up X alliance or destroy Keplerstan doesn't help the game. That's metagaming and doesn't hold true to the original spirit of a comprehensive RPG because you're fabricating character motivations from your personal desires. Sitting here and grumplaining about what people are or aren't doing isn't going to help anything as well. If your character is such a scaredy cat he won't do anything exciting kill him and make a more ambitious character. There's so many !@#$%^&s in this game it honestly astounds me what you people are like in person sometimes.
Things are never as simple as you want them to be when other people are involved. Crying "man but you guys should've done this because this and this and this and gosh you guys are so stupid and are ruining the game" only makes you a massive !@#$%^&.
Play the god damn game instead of complaining at Panda that CE should've done this or that or gosh you guys are ruining everything and why don't you like the things I like. And if you can't, stop playing the game and consider picking up another hobby. Why do you think people are leaving? Do they really want to play this game with you? It's really testing my patience because besides the strategy/risk players half of you want to play TeaPartyMaster, some of you want to play Le Epic Adventure Game of Thrones XXDDD and very few people want to play a god damn internally consistent RPG about medieval nobles in a low-fantasy setting.
You're dealing with other people here guys. Real people. With jobs and stuff they do and families and friends and feelings and thoughts. If they don't like the things you like, deal with it.
The entire purpose of the forum is so that we can talk about the game. If you don't want to talk about it, or read about other players' perspectives, why do you bother to come here?
Disagreement I can handle, but I draw a line at incivility. You disagree with something someone said then argue it on the merits. No need to start calling people !@#$%^&s or attacking their motivations.
Edit: That applies to more than one person here, by the way. No need for flaming.
QuoteSabotage! (1 hour, 13 minutes ago)
message to all nobles of Cagilan Empire
Celduin Cuivienen's guards, in Saradic, have captured Skiarxon Guldan, an infiltrator working for Darka while he was sneaking around the camp of Celduin Cuivienen, Knight of Garnagi, Vice-Marshal of Pax Cagila conspicuously, with a poisoned dagger under his cloak.
Tsk tsk. The master infiltrator is slipping...
Keep things civil, people, or I'll lock this thread.
Quote from: Velax on July 09, 2013, 08:38:14 PM
Keep things civil, people, or I'll lock this thread.
Am I the only one amused that no one has posted since being asked to keep things civil?
Quote from: Azerax on July 16, 2013, 06:44:41 PM
Am I the only one amused that no one has posted since being asked to keep things civil?
Nope. :)
So is the current war still the same war?
So many other things are going about I am not sure save that CE is fighting Darka single handedly now and Tara is taking over Silnaria regions. Apparently every realm not at war will hold consecutive tournament.
Quote from: Blue Star on July 30, 2013, 06:56:16 PM
So is the current war still the same war?
So many other things are going about I am not sure save that CE is fighting Darka single handedly now and Tara is taking over Silnaria regions. Apparently every realm not at war will hold consecutive tournament.
I'd say no, though I'm now blissfully unaware of the exact situation on Atamara. Did Tara actually declare war?
Quote from: Eirikr on July 30, 2013, 09:12:33 PM
I'd say no, though I'm now blissfully unaware of the exact situation on Atamara. Did Tara actually declare war?
Not yet, and Merlin is also stepping down and planning to pause. I think Silnaria is pretty much dead in the water. It will either get attacked, break apart, or go back to being a compliant little puppet of the League again.
Quote from: Geronus on July 30, 2013, 09:24:58 PM
Not yet, and Merlin is also stepping down and planning to pause. I think Silnaria is pretty much dead in the water. It will either get attacked, break apart, or go back to being a compliant little puppet of the League again.
Yeah, he gave me the heads up as well. Hm...
Quote from: Geronus on July 30, 2013, 09:24:58 PM
Not yet, and Merlin is also stepping down and planning to pause. I think Silnaria is pretty much dead in the water. It will either get attacked, break apart, or go back to being a compliant little puppet of the League again.
So disappointing.
Quote from: Perth on July 30, 2013, 09:57:30 PM
So disappointing.
I feel that I must echo the quote earlier:
QuoteI was a young and optimistic King with dreams of changing Atamara, once.
Then Atamara broke me.
If I had know this was going to happen, I would have supported the rebellion... but let's see if this situation can be salvaged.
Quote from: Geronus on July 30, 2013, 09:24:58 PM
Not yet, and Merlin is also stepping down and planning to pause. I think Silnaria is pretty much dead in the water. It will either get attacked, break apart, or go back to being a compliant little puppet of the League again.
Well he is planning to take a break from the game completely not just with Merlin but yeah. :'(
Disappointing and sad. Atamara can indeed break you , can't say i wasn't expecting the player of Merlin to crack at a point ....but i was hoping his stubborn and ambitious char would keep him going.
Well played so far, i feel like i should say that.
Yeah, it is sad to see him go. I can imagine the pressure you have faced as player... but then again, i do understand the other side of the coin too... kind of, the stubborness of League(atleast part of it) and stubborness of Merlin, didnt go too well i guess.
I must say, we could use more players like Merlins player, who has courage to change things... I guess i should do that some day too :D
-Jaune
Quote from: jaune on July 31, 2013, 09:38:39 AM
I must say, we could use more players like Merlins player, who has courage to change things... I guess i should do that some day too :D
-Jaune
Jaune, i think you already did that, that's why we are still having "The Current War" :P
Not really involved in things in Atamara these days, but I just wanted to say how much I admire Silverfire for what he has done and tried to achieve. It's a real shame everything got so heated that he feels he has to step away for a while. I was once a ruler of a good sized realm in the bearpit of Atamara and I can vouch how hard it is not only having the will to change things, but having the courage to try and achieve it too.
I used to be ruler of the Ash Sea Islands and I could have allied with Abington and formed an axis against Tara and CE. I had even planned to open a front against Tara (which almost certainly would have lifted the pressure on our ally Falasan at the time). Alas, I knew that it would cause some headaches in my realm and that once it was done there would be no going back. So I dithered and stood aloof from what was happening to RedSpan and Abington on my borders. Soon, without any hope or prospect of aid Abington imploded and then my chance was gone. I had the opportunity to upset the apple cart but I just didn't have the courage to do it in the end. I often wonder how things in Atamara might have turned out if I had done things differently.
Ah, it's a shame Merlin took a break (although I did as well for study-reasons). I really thought things would get interesting in Silnaria, but it seems Atamara is filled with rulers who are opposed to anything 'new', they have created their own private little sandbox-continent with their own rules and the new kids get bullied away.
Quote from: Frostwood on July 31, 2013, 07:59:45 AM
I feel that I must echo the quote earlier:
If I had know this was going to happen, I would have supported the rebellion... but let's see if this situation can be salvaged.
I'm prophetic.
Thanks everyone. Can't say I'm not surprised things didn't go more like I had hoped, but I was definitely optimistic about Merlin's ability to change things. Seems I didn't accomplish as much as I wanted.
In the end, I had to recognize what my priorities were though, and it all got a bit too intensive for me. When I had to start trying to work out arguments for ruler discussions in my head while on vacation, or was late to work once trying to deal with a rebellion that came out of nowhere, it was readily apparent I had things wrong.
My only note is that with great power truly does come great responsibility. So I'm giving up both.
Quote from: Dante Silverfire on July 31, 2013, 05:53:48 PM
Thanks everyone. Can't say I'm not surprised things didn't go more like I had hoped, but I was definitely optimistic about Merlin's ability to change things. Seems I didn't accomplish as much as I wanted.
In the end, I had to recognize what my priorities were though, and it all got a bit too intensive for me. When I had to start trying to work out arguments for ruler discussions in my head while on vacation, or was late to work once trying to deal with a rebellion that came out of nowhere, it was readily apparent I had things wrong.
My only note is that with great power truly does come great responsibility. So I'm giving up both.
I advise you not to delete your account. I went through this same thing, though under slightly different circumstances. I just had too much going on; I had two rulers, two Dukes, and a fifth character who was (comparatively) nobody, and I just got burned out. I am very glad I didn't delete my account however.
Pause everyone, then make an advy and log in once a week or so so that your account doesn't get auto-deleted. I bet you'll be glad you did.
Quote from: Geronus on July 31, 2013, 06:20:32 PM
I advise you not to delete your account. I went through this same thing, though under slightly different circumstances. I just had too much going on; I had two rulers, two Dukes, and a fifth character who was (comparatively) nobody, and I just got burned out. I am very glad I didn't delete my account however.
Pause everyone, then make an advy and log in once a week or so so that your account doesn't get auto-deleted. I bet you'll be glad you did.
+1
Definitely the right way to go.
hey, I discovered BM during my 2nd shift of exams. My first had gone really well, but I almost failed everything during my second. As Silverfire says, even as a knight, I was busy thinking of things to say or write, while I was supposed to be studying. Now I am re-doing these exams, I had to makee a decision, and so I paused all my characters. Luckily I still have several years of studies, so in between the exams, I can play.
Quote from: Wolfang on July 31, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
Luckily I still have several years of studies, so in between the exams, I can play.
ouch
Well, that was a unexpected conclusion to the 'Great War'
Holy mother of necromancy.
TURN UNDEAD! TURN UNDEAD!
What happened? I wasn't around to hear of this.